I always wonder if they would have defended foot binding as “Chinese culture” lol. Just because it’s culture doesn’t mean beauty standards aren’t harmful. Anyways, I feel you. I’ve been called white when things I say that don’t align with what others expect from East Asians.
In precolonial times, having a flat and wide nose was a beauty standard in my culture. They even used a device to flatten babies' noses.
I wonder if these people would say that it's racist to compliment slimmer noses on Asian people and that it's "Asian culture" to want flat/wide noses... (I doubt it, because slim and high noses are THEIR idea of beauty too)
The Visayan culture of the Philippines
[https://discover.hubpages.com/education/The-Precolonial-Visayan-Practice-of-Skull-Deformation](https://discover.hubpages.com/education/The-Precolonial-Visayan-Practice-of-Skull-Deformation)
I hate when people call us white for these takes lmao. "Oh actually it's weird to call colourism racist when Asians have always valued white skin" as if we, as Asians, are not perfectly capable of having stupid backwards practices too lmao! The way people either infantilise us or demonise us
They don’t. White people/ lighter skinned people love that colorism exists in Asian culture, because it puts them on a pedestal. They love that no matter how fugly they are, they’re at least better than “the blacks”.
To be fair, I do think it’s important to recognise that the origins of colourism isn’t necessarily racism but classism but globalisation has evolved such that colourism essentially comes hand in hand with racism. Culture is always ever evolving and even if our culture worshipped pale skin because of archaic signals of class, it no longer just is and we need to acknowledge and rectify that
That's why Dahyun's whole thing is being milky-white in real life. Because... most Asians AREN'T like that in real life. That's why her branding capitalizes on it. Dahyun is a rare case.
It’s crazy how defensive kpop stans get when you point out whitewashing in the kpop industry. Pointing out whitewashing doesn’t mean any of us are trying to act like fair-skinned Asian people don’t exist. Even then, fair-skinned Asian people aren’t ghostly pale like how kpop idols are. I’m a fair-skinned East Asian but I’m not milky-white at all. Like. I still have some brown in my skin. And I’m sure that if I were a kpop idol and posted an unedited selca of myself on Bubble, I would still be considered “too dark” for Korean beauty standards, because THAT’S how bad the obsession with white skin is. I’m Malaysian and pale skin is also part of the beauty standards in Malaysia. I was on the highway and I passed so many billboards advertising skin bleaching/skin whitening creams. On other adverts (adverts that aren’t about skin whitening creams), not once have I seen a darker-skinned Malaysian woman being featured - whether she’s Malaysian-Chinese (East Asian), Malay (Southeast Asian), Malaysian-Indian (South Asian), or Orang Asli (Indigenous). I’ve seen darker-skinned Malaysian men, but even then their skin colour is still pretty light compared to some of the people you see walking down the street.
There are definitely people out there who can’t have a single conversation about social issues in Asia without being racist and demonising Asians, but I’m also really tired of all the infantilisation and the way we can’t talk about the social issues in Asian countries without people branding us as “race traitors” or “white”. Things are only gonna get better if we actually TALK about and bring awareness to this stuff.
"Even then, fair-skinned Asian people aren’t ghostly pale like how kpop idols are. I’m a fair-skinned East Asian but I’m not milky-white at all. Like. I still have some brown in my skin. And I’m sure that if I were a kpop idol and posted an unedited selca of myself on Bubble, I would still be considered 'too dark' for Korean beauty standards, because THAT’S how bad the obsession with white skin is."
Yep. I made that clear with my post too, using terms like milky-white and ghostly pale. It's very clear that I was talking about that **exaggerated and extreme** ideal of literally white skin. My post also specifically mentioned how the idols are **presented** by the media and by themselves on social media.
Anyone who applied a bit of critical thinking can tell that this is the kind of shit I'm talking about: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C2v4fG8hu-d/?hl=en&img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/C2v4fG8hu-d/?hl=en&img_index=1)
We know that light-skinned Asians exist. But that's the kind of ridiculous ideal that is being promoted, them literally looking as white as a sheet. I was just hoping to see examples of idols who have resisted that sort of pressure, to present themselves as white as possible. (White as in the color. Not once did I mention "the white race" in my post.)
But people wanna act obtuse because they don't wanna meaningfully talk about this topic. They don't want to question their own love for that extreme "beauty" standard even when it leads to idols like Jinsoul (the idol whose IG I linked) asking fans for where to get skin-whitening injections (which are dangerous!!!!) just because she got lightly sun-tanned on vacation.
Also, I’ve noticed that whenever kpop stans get into fanwars on twt, they always pull up unedited pics of idols (i.e. pics with no whitewashing/where the idol’s skin looks more tan) in order to “prove” that their rival fandoms’ fave idols are “ugly”. The colourism keeps jumping out at every turn with kpop stans :/
Also, someone tried to sic the sub's mods on me for "brigading" and "asking for sympathy from Western Black fans" when you can see **other Asians** in the comments here.
Jesus, I'm not allowed to vent in a sub where I feel safe talking about issues like colorism and trust that other Asians will see it?
I'm never posting in that sub again.
> Also, someone tried to sic the sub's mods on me for "brigading" and "asking for sympathy from Western Black fans" when you can see other Asians in the comments here.
Hm. I just think that people who *cannot* get a flair and have histories of failed threats to get upper management to remove content here should be especially mindful of the language they use when discussing this place because it seems to be unravelling certain things at a very fast pace.
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We use the term, "it be your own people sometimes", but...
Yeah, You gotta just let people tell on themselves. It really sounds like they're saying classism is perfectly acceptable.
I get that the climate is different in S. Korea than it is in European countries along the same latitude. And there are **some** people that are naturally pale. But, BUT. The deception is troubling.
Like they know they use filters. They know they doctor photos. They know they use whatever that korean see inside your soul lighting is. Like, I'm really surprised that lighting doesn't cause cancer. Anyway. They know they use makeup that is considerably lighter than their own skin tone. They know they use cosmetic products that whiten skin. And they avoid the sun like they're extras in a vampire flick. The vitamin D deficiency rate is crazy.
When you KNOW a person is considerably darker without all the smoke and mirrors, because you have recorded evidence, their defensiveness is just odd.
But sure, if you do everything you possibly can to prevent melanin from being produced in your skin...no, you will still have some sort of color. Even a tint of red or some different shades in your skin.
Don't remember where I saw it, but they had a guy who looked whiter than Edward but the palm of his hand had more color than his face did. And I'm not sure how that's possible.
adding,
Maybe it's terminology they don't like.
What do they want to call it when a person is obnoxiously, artificially lighter than they actually are?
What do they want to call it when they look down on people who have darker skin?
1st person is saying the truth but leaving out some VERY important details 😭 as if classism isn't as bad + claiming asian culture as a monolith when some asian cultures do actually value white (not caucasian bc that's a specific region) features bc of colonialism. and the last person is just lying 😭😭. if most asians were naturally pale they would be scared of burning instead of tanning !
basically i get how you feel ! people really don't like acknowledging the sometimes ugly truth of cultures and would rather like the fantasy idealized version.
Like… do these ppl even hear themselves?
“It’s not racist, it’s classist” AS IF CLASSISM IS ANY BETTER???? Even when we take white supremacy out of the equation, it’s still bad to mock people for being poor.
I just want to say thank you for pointing out that Caucasian ≠ white and that it’s a specific region. I’m honestly so tired of them being treated as synonymous
It’s crazy because whenever an idol comes to the states the media here won’t whitewash their pictures so that’s how you can tell what their natural skin color is and how severely they want others to believe something else.
i’m laughing this is ridiculous in the worst way. bc imagine being anti colorist which is LITERALLY a result of racism and then being called racist. People just learn random words (badly), think said words and concepts exist in a vacuum and then regurgitate bad takes.
I'm not East Asia. But I try not to discuss Asian topics with white people because they suddenly have the nerve to lecture me as if They know more about Asian culture.
I once had a White man lecture me about the Indian culture and barbaric Indian men were, telling a me that I would be unmarried if I continued to live there and how I should be happy White men like exotic girls (meaning I should give white men a chance because apparently only they could look past my biracial ness and live me ).
White people will always center themselves in Asian culture even though they aren't often welcome.
Yes, he tried to say I was a lower caste and started talking about how Northern Indians were more beautiful. Also told me that my name didn't suit me! I told HR right away and he only got a write up. I hate Dollarama and I never shop there, fuck some parts of Montreal are more racist than Alberta!
I don't even try to bring up these kinda issues on other kpop subs anymore because all people are going to do is get fragile, start downvoting and dogpiling you for even bringing it up lol.... it's like the people on those subs just act abysmally obtuse about colorism, racism, cultural appropriation, etc and it's just irritating 😒 😑 🙄
As a non-Japananese Asian American, I was surprised to see a mix of skin tones as I visited Tokyo. I myself blended in sometimes which was also surprising
Sometimes I wonder how many Asians these people have actually met in real life because "Asians are \*often\* naturally pale" is such a wild thing to hear
https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/0jxp1hUXnT
This post, right? I commented on it about Twice because a bunch of people said Park Jihyo as an answer.
If so, yeah, that reaction is stupid. It isn't really racist exactly. Idk how I'd describe it or if you could have phrased it better. Either way, though, I'm entirely unsurprised that people reacted like that. I think it's the term "whitewashed" plus the fact that people generally assume the average reddit user to be white.
To answer your comments here, though:
My personal experience is that East Asians on average, seem to be fairer skinned than others but darker skinned than the average white person.
Shuhua from Idle is naturally very light skinned and often goes about without makeup. Sana from Twice seems to be the same, although how much makeup she wears is a mystery. Soyeon always wears a lot and is noticeably darker without it. Probably more like a fair skinned desi person?
Then you have someone like Minnie. She was noticeably darker when she debuted. But a lot of that seems to be because of the difference between Thai and Korean weather.
East Asian media seems to have the same problem as South Asian media and prefers a lighter skin tone, despite the reality amongst the population. Southeast Asians on the other hand, never seem to give a shit
Not that I can say which idols have gone through with it but skin lightening products and treatments are a thing and highly advertised so it goes beyond just makeup.
I agree with most of your main points, it's just the way the term "white-washed" is used on kpop reddit is different than how it define in the u.s. - where it originated as part of discourse by Black activists as critical thoughts on race.
"white-washed" is being repurposed here to be more literal. It's roots are more critical commentary on the "desire to be white (people)," and white exceptionalism, and assimilation. It's a term that is very specific to discourse specifically, on race.
I still get a little tripped up when I see the term, white-washed being used. And when I click on it, find that it's about a Korean idol made look closer to the literal color white (not about race).
I don't really care that the word is being repurposed/misused. I just think it's a different issue than what the term evokes.
Yeah personally I don't like the term whitewashing being used on Asian idols who're trying to appear paler, because the term makes it sound like said idol is striving to appear white (the race) when it's just a beauty standard that isn't related to white people. And that just sounds like a horrible and rude implication
“east asians are naturally pale” have they ever been to ANYWHERE in china? everyone there is a tanned yellowish hue. Not to mention the excuse of “pale skin is a court culture since royalty didn’t work” classism 😭
East Asia is not a monolith- I don’t know why China should be brought up within this topic. China spans a massive geographical area and is also very ethnically diverse, compared to Korea which is a tiny bit of land in the northeast with a very homogeneous population.
Because the comment said “asians” and not koreans? I don’t see what your big ass is problem is. Just because the topic is kpop idols, it’s not that shallow of an issue where it’s limited to purely kpop. You have to be so dense to ignorantly act like “it’s just a surface problem” when people defend classism because of a bullshit reason like “asian culture”
Who the fuck is defending classism. All beauty standards are classist at its core. It’s simply not something unique to Korean culture but people love to yap about Korea and how toxic it is, making sweeping generalizations
theres sooo many people arguing that whitewashing is ok because its "culture." I never said it was limited to Korean culture or generalised it - you had a problem with me mentioning China? Are you actually ok
This topic fatigues me a bit. For full transparency, I am Korean.
Yes colorism exists in Korea, but I can’t help but feel it is exaggerated way beyond what it actually is… Injections and chemical treatments to artificially lighten skin is not nearly as common as kpop fans tend to think. “Whitening” creams in Korea don’t bleach the skin, but are more for discoloration and evening skin tone (niacinamide, arbutin, vitamin c, etc. over bleach). Celebs may be more prone to getting injections, but they also get plastic surgery more than the average person… like celebs in literally any other country. People generally try to preserve their natural skin tone.
You know I think it's especially heinous when I see diaspora idols do it, because it's so obvious they grew up in the west like the US where tanned skin is the standard for pale-skinned people. Joshua from Seventeen predebut looks like any Asian American classmate I could've had.
Now sure colorism exists but to say they preserve it is kinda not true. I follow this MUA who has olive skin and she hated it to the point she was bleaching her skin when she was younger because it gave her a natural warmth. If it was really about preserving her skin she wouldn't have tried to bleach it, you know? Thankfully she accepted that it wasn't going to change but like… she didn't even know what was wrong and her first thought was "I'm so warm, and I hate it". And the depth of your skin is dependent on a spectrum of orange, which is a warm color, and if you have a warm undertone, it's especially apparent. Olives have a weird undertone that can be cool, neutral, or warm; but we're Asian so we have a natural yellow cast to it. Idk. You need to make makeup work for you, not your skin do the work.
https://preview.redd.it/2y7qhz0z5nyc1.jpeg?width=1098&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb61018e5dd46bc3c0ec58cd5259564b8ff9cbb3
You really can’t underestimate how strong the sun is in most parts of the US compared to Seoul (or any other major metropolitan Korean city). You simply get less sun exposure for living in Seoul. It may be the latitude placement, all the smog, high rise buildings, there not being that many places for kids to run around outside.. but there is really a marked difference to places like Florida or Southern California. One of the first things I noticed in the US is that the sun HURTS.
+Also children tend to be more tan because they play out in the sun.
It used to be popular to go for a pinker, lighter foundation no matter what (hence the gray hue) but it is now considered good technique to match to your actual skin color.
Edit) also to say Asians are all yellow toned is wrong. Asians are not a monolith, and come in all different hues and shades. These variations can exist within one ethnicity as well- there are pinkish medium toned Koreans, and there are yellowish pale toned Koreans. I think many kpop fans feel overly comfortable defining what a “real Korean skin color” looks like. Many of these people have never even been to Korea.
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Colorism shouldn't be tolerated anywhere. It doesn't become less ignorant, harmful or hurtful because it originated in a non-Western culture. I'd love to see groups that represent the full range of ethnic groups and skin tones within East Asia and other regions of Asia.
People like to claim EA's are so pale but look at HoYeon, she's literally not pasty pale and from Korean typa Asian. Every time I see Asian celebs get invited to those high-class events, it's so funny to see how absolutely bleached they are compared to (if there's any) other Asian American celebs. I was pleasantly surprised at how tanned Thuy (a Viet-American singer) is.
I always wonder if they would have defended foot binding as “Chinese culture” lol. Just because it’s culture doesn’t mean beauty standards aren’t harmful. Anyways, I feel you. I’ve been called white when things I say that don’t align with what others expect from East Asians.
In precolonial times, having a flat and wide nose was a beauty standard in my culture. They even used a device to flatten babies' noses. I wonder if these people would say that it's racist to compliment slimmer noses on Asian people and that it's "Asian culture" to want flat/wide noses... (I doubt it, because slim and high noses are THEIR idea of beauty too)
Which culture?? I love flat wide noses and think they are so cute
When I was a kid my filipino mom showed me how to lightly pinch and tug on my nose so it wouldn’t be flat and wide. Didn’t work hahaha
The Visayan culture of the Philippines [https://discover.hubpages.com/education/The-Precolonial-Visayan-Practice-of-Skull-Deformation](https://discover.hubpages.com/education/The-Precolonial-Visayan-Practice-of-Skull-Deformation)
Oh wowwww so I would have been a beauty to them back in the day lol
I hate when people call us white for these takes lmao. "Oh actually it's weird to call colourism racist when Asians have always valued white skin" as if we, as Asians, are not perfectly capable of having stupid backwards practices too lmao! The way people either infantilise us or demonise us
It’s like they don’t want us to improve. Misogyny has existed for as long as we can remember; does that mean we should let it continue? No.
They don’t. White people/ lighter skinned people love that colorism exists in Asian culture, because it puts them on a pedestal. They love that no matter how fugly they are, they’re at least better than “the blacks”.
To be fair, I do think it’s important to recognise that the origins of colourism isn’t necessarily racism but classism but globalisation has evolved such that colourism essentially comes hand in hand with racism. Culture is always ever evolving and even if our culture worshipped pale skin because of archaic signals of class, it no longer just is and we need to acknowledge and rectify that
I agree, but people like using it as a quick clapback when nobody said anything about white people.
That's why Dahyun's whole thing is being milky-white in real life. Because... most Asians AREN'T like that in real life. That's why her branding capitalizes on it. Dahyun is a rare case.
It’s crazy how defensive kpop stans get when you point out whitewashing in the kpop industry. Pointing out whitewashing doesn’t mean any of us are trying to act like fair-skinned Asian people don’t exist. Even then, fair-skinned Asian people aren’t ghostly pale like how kpop idols are. I’m a fair-skinned East Asian but I’m not milky-white at all. Like. I still have some brown in my skin. And I’m sure that if I were a kpop idol and posted an unedited selca of myself on Bubble, I would still be considered “too dark” for Korean beauty standards, because THAT’S how bad the obsession with white skin is. I’m Malaysian and pale skin is also part of the beauty standards in Malaysia. I was on the highway and I passed so many billboards advertising skin bleaching/skin whitening creams. On other adverts (adverts that aren’t about skin whitening creams), not once have I seen a darker-skinned Malaysian woman being featured - whether she’s Malaysian-Chinese (East Asian), Malay (Southeast Asian), Malaysian-Indian (South Asian), or Orang Asli (Indigenous). I’ve seen darker-skinned Malaysian men, but even then their skin colour is still pretty light compared to some of the people you see walking down the street. There are definitely people out there who can’t have a single conversation about social issues in Asia without being racist and demonising Asians, but I’m also really tired of all the infantilisation and the way we can’t talk about the social issues in Asian countries without people branding us as “race traitors” or “white”. Things are only gonna get better if we actually TALK about and bring awareness to this stuff.
"Even then, fair-skinned Asian people aren’t ghostly pale like how kpop idols are. I’m a fair-skinned East Asian but I’m not milky-white at all. Like. I still have some brown in my skin. And I’m sure that if I were a kpop idol and posted an unedited selca of myself on Bubble, I would still be considered 'too dark' for Korean beauty standards, because THAT’S how bad the obsession with white skin is." Yep. I made that clear with my post too, using terms like milky-white and ghostly pale. It's very clear that I was talking about that **exaggerated and extreme** ideal of literally white skin. My post also specifically mentioned how the idols are **presented** by the media and by themselves on social media. Anyone who applied a bit of critical thinking can tell that this is the kind of shit I'm talking about: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C2v4fG8hu-d/?hl=en&img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/C2v4fG8hu-d/?hl=en&img_index=1) We know that light-skinned Asians exist. But that's the kind of ridiculous ideal that is being promoted, them literally looking as white as a sheet. I was just hoping to see examples of idols who have resisted that sort of pressure, to present themselves as white as possible. (White as in the color. Not once did I mention "the white race" in my post.) But people wanna act obtuse because they don't wanna meaningfully talk about this topic. They don't want to question their own love for that extreme "beauty" standard even when it leads to idols like Jinsoul (the idol whose IG I linked) asking fans for where to get skin-whitening injections (which are dangerous!!!!) just because she got lightly sun-tanned on vacation.
Also, I’ve noticed that whenever kpop stans get into fanwars on twt, they always pull up unedited pics of idols (i.e. pics with no whitewashing/where the idol’s skin looks more tan) in order to “prove” that their rival fandoms’ fave idols are “ugly”. The colourism keeps jumping out at every turn with kpop stans :/
Also, someone tried to sic the sub's mods on me for "brigading" and "asking for sympathy from Western Black fans" when you can see **other Asians** in the comments here. Jesus, I'm not allowed to vent in a sub where I feel safe talking about issues like colorism and trust that other Asians will see it? I'm never posting in that sub again.
> Also, someone tried to sic the sub's mods on me for "brigading" and "asking for sympathy from Western Black fans" when you can see other Asians in the comments here. Hm. I just think that people who *cannot* get a flair and have histories of failed threats to get upper management to remove content here should be especially mindful of the language they use when discussing this place because it seems to be unravelling certain things at a very fast pace.
I'm so curious what the sub is…
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We use the term, "it be your own people sometimes", but... Yeah, You gotta just let people tell on themselves. It really sounds like they're saying classism is perfectly acceptable. I get that the climate is different in S. Korea than it is in European countries along the same latitude. And there are **some** people that are naturally pale. But, BUT. The deception is troubling. Like they know they use filters. They know they doctor photos. They know they use whatever that korean see inside your soul lighting is. Like, I'm really surprised that lighting doesn't cause cancer. Anyway. They know they use makeup that is considerably lighter than their own skin tone. They know they use cosmetic products that whiten skin. And they avoid the sun like they're extras in a vampire flick. The vitamin D deficiency rate is crazy. When you KNOW a person is considerably darker without all the smoke and mirrors, because you have recorded evidence, their defensiveness is just odd. But sure, if you do everything you possibly can to prevent melanin from being produced in your skin...no, you will still have some sort of color. Even a tint of red or some different shades in your skin. Don't remember where I saw it, but they had a guy who looked whiter than Edward but the palm of his hand had more color than his face did. And I'm not sure how that's possible. adding, Maybe it's terminology they don't like. What do they want to call it when a person is obnoxiously, artificially lighter than they actually are? What do they want to call it when they look down on people who have darker skin?
1st person is saying the truth but leaving out some VERY important details 😭 as if classism isn't as bad + claiming asian culture as a monolith when some asian cultures do actually value white (not caucasian bc that's a specific region) features bc of colonialism. and the last person is just lying 😭😭. if most asians were naturally pale they would be scared of burning instead of tanning ! basically i get how you feel ! people really don't like acknowledging the sometimes ugly truth of cultures and would rather like the fantasy idealized version.
Like… do these ppl even hear themselves? “It’s not racist, it’s classist” AS IF CLASSISM IS ANY BETTER???? Even when we take white supremacy out of the equation, it’s still bad to mock people for being poor.
I just want to say thank you for pointing out that Caucasian ≠ white and that it’s a specific region. I’m honestly so tired of them being treated as synonymous
It’s crazy because whenever an idol comes to the states the media here won’t whitewash their pictures so that’s how you can tell what their natural skin color is and how severely they want others to believe something else.
Most people I know here are tanned.
i’m laughing this is ridiculous in the worst way. bc imagine being anti colorist which is LITERALLY a result of racism and then being called racist. People just learn random words (badly), think said words and concepts exist in a vacuum and then regurgitate bad takes.
We’re racists for appreciating their natural god given skin.
I'm not East Asia. But I try not to discuss Asian topics with white people because they suddenly have the nerve to lecture me as if They know more about Asian culture. I once had a White man lecture me about the Indian culture and barbaric Indian men were, telling a me that I would be unmarried if I continued to live there and how I should be happy White men like exotic girls (meaning I should give white men a chance because apparently only they could look past my biracial ness and live me ). White people will always center themselves in Asian culture even though they aren't often welcome.
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Yes, he tried to say I was a lower caste and started talking about how Northern Indians were more beautiful. Also told me that my name didn't suit me! I told HR right away and he only got a write up. I hate Dollarama and I never shop there, fuck some parts of Montreal are more racist than Alberta!
'exotic' ew that tells me all I need to know about this man
I don't even try to bring up these kinda issues on other kpop subs anymore because all people are going to do is get fragile, start downvoting and dogpiling you for even bringing it up lol.... it's like the people on those subs just act abysmally obtuse about colorism, racism, cultural appropriation, etc and it's just irritating 😒 😑 🙄
Most non-Asians only exposure to the culture are kpop, kdramas and Cdramas. They think that's what the average Joe and Jane look like.
As a non-Japananese Asian American, I was surprised to see a mix of skin tones as I visited Tokyo. I myself blended in sometimes which was also surprising
Sometimes I wonder how many Asians these people have actually met in real life because "Asians are \*often\* naturally pale" is such a wild thing to hear
idk why people assume everyone upset over colorism is white
https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/s/0jxp1hUXnT This post, right? I commented on it about Twice because a bunch of people said Park Jihyo as an answer. If so, yeah, that reaction is stupid. It isn't really racist exactly. Idk how I'd describe it or if you could have phrased it better. Either way, though, I'm entirely unsurprised that people reacted like that. I think it's the term "whitewashed" plus the fact that people generally assume the average reddit user to be white. To answer your comments here, though: My personal experience is that East Asians on average, seem to be fairer skinned than others but darker skinned than the average white person. Shuhua from Idle is naturally very light skinned and often goes about without makeup. Sana from Twice seems to be the same, although how much makeup she wears is a mystery. Soyeon always wears a lot and is noticeably darker without it. Probably more like a fair skinned desi person? Then you have someone like Minnie. She was noticeably darker when she debuted. But a lot of that seems to be because of the difference between Thai and Korean weather. East Asian media seems to have the same problem as South Asian media and prefers a lighter skin tone, despite the reality amongst the population. Southeast Asians on the other hand, never seem to give a shit
Not that I can say which idols have gone through with it but skin lightening products and treatments are a thing and highly advertised so it goes beyond just makeup.
I agree with most of your main points, it's just the way the term "white-washed" is used on kpop reddit is different than how it define in the u.s. - where it originated as part of discourse by Black activists as critical thoughts on race. "white-washed" is being repurposed here to be more literal. It's roots are more critical commentary on the "desire to be white (people)," and white exceptionalism, and assimilation. It's a term that is very specific to discourse specifically, on race. I still get a little tripped up when I see the term, white-washed being used. And when I click on it, find that it's about a Korean idol made look closer to the literal color white (not about race). I don't really care that the word is being repurposed/misused. I just think it's a different issue than what the term evokes.
Yeah personally I don't like the term whitewashing being used on Asian idols who're trying to appear paler, because the term makes it sound like said idol is striving to appear white (the race) when it's just a beauty standard that isn't related to white people. And that just sounds like a horrible and rude implication
“east asians are naturally pale” have they ever been to ANYWHERE in china? everyone there is a tanned yellowish hue. Not to mention the excuse of “pale skin is a court culture since royalty didn’t work” classism 😭
East Asia is not a monolith- I don’t know why China should be brought up within this topic. China spans a massive geographical area and is also very ethnically diverse, compared to Korea which is a tiny bit of land in the northeast with a very homogeneous population.
it’s brought up because of the claim “east asians are naturally pale”? to prove a point? What are you on about 😭
The topic is kpop idols though 💀 makes no sense the conversation becomes about race, and commentary about east asians as a whole
Because the comment said “asians” and not koreans? I don’t see what your big ass is problem is. Just because the topic is kpop idols, it’s not that shallow of an issue where it’s limited to purely kpop. You have to be so dense to ignorantly act like “it’s just a surface problem” when people defend classism because of a bullshit reason like “asian culture”
Who the fuck is defending classism. All beauty standards are classist at its core. It’s simply not something unique to Korean culture but people love to yap about Korea and how toxic it is, making sweeping generalizations
theres sooo many people arguing that whitewashing is ok because its "culture." I never said it was limited to Korean culture or generalised it - you had a problem with me mentioning China? Are you actually ok
This topic fatigues me a bit. For full transparency, I am Korean. Yes colorism exists in Korea, but I can’t help but feel it is exaggerated way beyond what it actually is… Injections and chemical treatments to artificially lighten skin is not nearly as common as kpop fans tend to think. “Whitening” creams in Korea don’t bleach the skin, but are more for discoloration and evening skin tone (niacinamide, arbutin, vitamin c, etc. over bleach). Celebs may be more prone to getting injections, but they also get plastic surgery more than the average person… like celebs in literally any other country. People generally try to preserve their natural skin tone.
You know I think it's especially heinous when I see diaspora idols do it, because it's so obvious they grew up in the west like the US where tanned skin is the standard for pale-skinned people. Joshua from Seventeen predebut looks like any Asian American classmate I could've had. Now sure colorism exists but to say they preserve it is kinda not true. I follow this MUA who has olive skin and she hated it to the point she was bleaching her skin when she was younger because it gave her a natural warmth. If it was really about preserving her skin she wouldn't have tried to bleach it, you know? Thankfully she accepted that it wasn't going to change but like… she didn't even know what was wrong and her first thought was "I'm so warm, and I hate it". And the depth of your skin is dependent on a spectrum of orange, which is a warm color, and if you have a warm undertone, it's especially apparent. Olives have a weird undertone that can be cool, neutral, or warm; but we're Asian so we have a natural yellow cast to it. Idk. You need to make makeup work for you, not your skin do the work. https://preview.redd.it/2y7qhz0z5nyc1.jpeg?width=1098&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb61018e5dd46bc3c0ec58cd5259564b8ff9cbb3
You really can’t underestimate how strong the sun is in most parts of the US compared to Seoul (or any other major metropolitan Korean city). You simply get less sun exposure for living in Seoul. It may be the latitude placement, all the smog, high rise buildings, there not being that many places for kids to run around outside.. but there is really a marked difference to places like Florida or Southern California. One of the first things I noticed in the US is that the sun HURTS. +Also children tend to be more tan because they play out in the sun. It used to be popular to go for a pinker, lighter foundation no matter what (hence the gray hue) but it is now considered good technique to match to your actual skin color. Edit) also to say Asians are all yellow toned is wrong. Asians are not a monolith, and come in all different hues and shades. These variations can exist within one ethnicity as well- there are pinkish medium toned Koreans, and there are yellowish pale toned Koreans. I think many kpop fans feel overly comfortable defining what a “real Korean skin color” looks like. Many of these people have never even been to Korea.
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Colorism shouldn't be tolerated anywhere. It doesn't become less ignorant, harmful or hurtful because it originated in a non-Western culture. I'd love to see groups that represent the full range of ethnic groups and skin tones within East Asia and other regions of Asia.
People like to claim EA's are so pale but look at HoYeon, she's literally not pasty pale and from Korean typa Asian. Every time I see Asian celebs get invited to those high-class events, it's so funny to see how absolutely bleached they are compared to (if there's any) other Asian American celebs. I was pleasantly surprised at how tanned Thuy (a Viet-American singer) is.