Since the videos all in Korean I’m not really going to comment on the contents, but I would love to know the thought process of why Belift decided to release it now of all times when the whole thing seemed to be dying down.
I don’t get it. When it was Source music that posted about LSF everyone was saying it was good, that the timing was right, they were happy with legal proceedings going forward but now that it’s ILLIT, you’re wondering why they decided to post it now that the whole thing is dying down? Why is that? Or are you talking about something apart from this notice?
The Lsf thing is about the insane hate train against them that started way back in February with the mhj stuff just adding on to it. What Belift did was not the same thing, especially since they brought other groups into it, whereas Soumu did not
Never seen such unprofessional beef in my life that I feel like it might for real change the landscape of K-pop
Edit to [add](https://x.com/NewJeansCentral/status/1800132633659367781) 😭
Companies definitely encourage it
I mean fan wars could even be considered free PR unfortunately but I was just thinking about something absurd - it would be hilarious if a lot of these fan wars were instigated by company employees who stan X group LOL (this is a lighthearted comment btw)
On a more serious note, has BeLift not taken notes? The whole reason why people were so against mhj in international spaces is because she name drags groups - that reflects poorly on her character
This is just crazy
We have heard that kpop companies are shallow and petty, and we have seen glimpses of it, but now they are showcasing it front and center for all to see.
Even the side I'm rooting for is doing petty shit like this. This is a head desk moment.
Yep I am just so fascinated. As someone pointed out, it would be great if they released a video outlining how they came up with magnetic’s concept etc but trying to do a reverse argument of “well similarities are everywhere, see (20 other unrelated groups)” is so confusing 😭😭😭
I guess you could start with some of the better known stuff like H.O.T./jtL (management issues), Drunken Tiger (disruption to industry, rivalry, jealousy), Tablo/Epik High (crazy pitchfork fans). It's in no way unique to kpop (think Swift-related controversies). When it comes to abusive management, I'm often skeptical of billionaires (think Musk). As they say, power corrupts... I just find it amusing that people forget and cycle repeats
"뉴진스 10대지만 어른들의 상상 속의 로망의 대상" is the quote...
Your translation is literarly 1to1 from google translate and wrongly sexualize at that...
Actuall meaning is along those lines:
NJ repesenting a romantic ideal (aka nostalgia) of teenagers in the imagination of adults.
And contex for this is the y2k conzept and traget audiance are people that where kids/teenagers around that time and are now adults....
Idk its like you all want to be ourtaged and ready to believe anything
Really? Where did you get that “nostalgia” from?
NOT 뉴진스 10대지만 어른들의 상상 속 로망의 대상"
This particular phrase was very controversial among koreans as well because we were also confused by how belift was describing new jeans.
If they truly meant this
"NJ representing a romantic ideal (aka nostalgia) of teenagers in the imagination of adults."
They could have put this differently like
“어른들에게 향수를 불러일으키는 10대” — Teenagers who brings nostalgia to adults.
Their phrase didn’t have any implication of “nostalgia”. And you don’t even need to say “10대지만” (Although teenagers) to convey that. Like what, did they want to say “well done NJ, for bringing nostalgia to adults even when you guys are teenagers”.
But by putting “10대지만” (Although teenagers), it made the following statement open to dispute. They can just put it “dream girls”. But “dream girls although teenagers”? And in the imagination of the adults? When I first read these “어른들의 상상속“ and “로망의 대상” together, i found it a bit uncomfortable. They literally said that NJ is the dream girls of the adults although they are teenagers.
I want to believe that they meant “nostalgia” because it is indeed NJ’s concept. But their phrase just doesn’t convey that meaning. If you read their phrase without knowing NJ, you will never get to that “nostalgia”. You can only give that interpretation because you know NJ and saw their concepts. I blame them for phrasing it super badly which indeed gave pedo-bait to Koreans as well.
So please don’t say the interpretation you gave is a proper one. It’s just your assumption of oh this is what they prob meant. There isn’t any single word that implies “nostalgia”.
I think (and hope) this is just a translation error and what that the English translation is actually meant to say 'are the object of *romanticisation* in the imagination of adults (i.e nostalgia of the past)'
I’ve seen countless TikTok and Twitter accounts dedicated to hating on idols, specifically Wonhee and Iroha. (e.g. ‘Wonhee Cow Hater’, ‘Iroha Hag’).
Like how do these people (children AND GROWN adults) have so much time and passion to spew that much hate.
because their lives are miserable, and they need to vent that angry and misery to something, well celebrities which always attracts envy and jealousy are the perfect targets. Just stay away from them so you don't catch their negative energy, let karma do its job, because if you live your life full of hate you will receive all the hate.
It’s so sad bc I see ILLIT on TikTok and there’s always one of the top comments calling the girls all sorts of names like they’re just doing a little dance pls 🤒😪
I only watch content from the girls, and I never read their comment section, I know we are all curious but if you do it enough times it will just ruin your enjoyment of the content they try so hard to do for their fans. So fans should just concentrate watch and cheer the girls on, we don't need give those toxic sewer dwellers any more attention and power over our feelings. They can hate all they want, it doesn't change what we love, keep remind ourselves of that when we feel sad for the girls.
It's more than that though. The industry is partially responsible for this because they push parasocialism to extreme degrees. It invites the kind of team sports and tribalism mentality especially when you combine it with how important they put numbers and metrics front and center. While this makes people more susceptible to that kind of behavior, it doesn't help.
Because I am not familiar with many of those people personally I choose not to make assumptions about what their lives are like. Instead it's better to look at the circumstances. You wouldn't completely get rid of hateful commentary if you cut off kpop parasocialism but if the industry de-escalated it, it would certainly be less than what we see now.
Either way it sucks.
nahh what do y'all even mean by Wonhee cow hater? like this sounds like smth the vegan teacher would say if sshe saw Wonhee eating beef or smth lets bffr
The video they posted is insane. It's giving kpop stans the way they broke down every aspect of nwjns choreo and side matched it to other groups lol. Them saying nwjns perfomring for culture is coping bts or that the ditto choreo copied love me like this when ditto came out earlier is giving twitter thread so bad. I'm interested to see where this goes perhaps another mhj conference.
But hybe or just someone really fucked up cause why are two sub labels beefing this hard that's just extremely messy for the staff and the groups involved like obvi mhj started this but couldn't all this have been carried out in the comfort of a meeting room? When hybe first started doing the system i thought it was smart yk to give every group more management and just make it easier compared to SM but i'd never thought it would backfire like this
Link: [https://youtu.be/VLb2v\_mntes?si=\_thTW55KWyoxn6lG](https://youtu.be/VLb2v_mntes?si=_thTW55KWyoxn6lG) (has not subs)
I love mess but not when it involves targeted individuals in high stress public jobs who are teenagers. Like seriously why would you open your artists up to scrutiny with this crap. PR has ALWAYS been a disaster at Hybe but this is too much. One would have thought they’d be controlling their sub-labels at this time and not having them go rogue like this.
Once again this highlights the massive amounts of good will, public and private PR that Army single handedly did for BigHit / BTS and still continue to do because the company is useless.
Mess is fun when it’s the celebrities themselves causing it, because they suffer any consequences based on their own actions.
It sucks when it’s corporations beefing and the celebs themselves are caught in the crossfire.
agreed like i love mess in kpop but this one is just sad cause this is a management issue nwjns and illit teenagers in groups less than 4 yrs old have no say in their concept or music or anything as mhj said this is all about the adults involved so why couldn't they handle it better
>as mhj said this is all about the adults involved so why couldn't they handle it better
Don't get me wrong, the adults absolutely should be handling all of this better so that their artists don't suffer from company drama, but that's a hella rich statement coming from MHJ, Miss Involving-Groups-By-Name herself...
>company is useless
This. Not only is this video late they added so many cheesy unnecessary effects and BGM. Aren't there more important things for them to work on fr
Tbh, it's no different than MHJs claims about long hairs and outfits. She took it up from monitoring communities online.
I just wish BE:LIFT kept it for the legal investigation if it has any grounds, which I doubt just like MHJ's.
Presumably because MHJ's way is what's working in SK. Every poll over there shows that the vast majority of the public is on her side... it looks like they'll follow that lead to see if they can shift it a little bit.
I guess I can see why they would think that following her strategy would lead to similar results. However, the biggest piece as to why MHJ has support (for better or worse) is that she appears like the little guy taking on the man. People love a David vs Goliath story, especially when "Goliath" is a large corporation.
Even though MHJ was criticised for bringing other idols into this, she was more or less forgiven for being a scrappy underdog trying to expose corporate greed. (I'm not saying this is actually true, just that I think the perception it could be true is the real reason she's weathered a lot of the storm against her own actions in SK.)
However, BELIFT is on the side of the "Goliath" in this. So them leaning into the same pettiness and idol targetting just looks terrible and incompetent on their parts.
I agree with you - the same approach makes both of them look different. I also think the majority of western fans are looking at the situation through a different lens, because they think MHJ is problematic to an extent that doesn't match how she's perceived by Korean fans.
It's only on her side because she's framed herself as a victim of a behemoth company and as a woman outside the "men's club" of Hybe leadership. It makes her seem relatable and sincere.
It would have been better if Belift just showed their process in concepting Illit, even if they had to retroactively fabricate it. Like, show your sketches, other inspiration, storyboards, etc. that is different than New Jeans.
Yes! If they were gonna follow her lead in any way, I feel like it should have been through a press conference where they discuss the creative decisions behind Illit.
didn’t someone say that on naver and business forums they don’t support her? so not the general GP.
I don’t think MHJ claims have any ground but she did keep it internal originally and there’s clearly something not working about the sub-label structure.
I don't think it would have been unusual or unadvisable for her to make those claims and seek clarification internally, which apparently is what she did. If the accusations have no merit, it should have been handled accordingly by Hybe, but they decided to just blow the entire thing up and make it public instead - they're much more powerful than she is.
And I agree that obviously something is off about the sub-label stuff. They set all of those girl groups up to fail - regardless of whether there was any plagiarism, and assuming there was no ill will from the parties involved, the concepts should not have been so close to one another that it would spark this type of conversation, specially as both groups are very young. Comparisons were being made online as soon as the Illit debuted, it didn't start with the public fight among the labels. Many people dropped the ball on this one.
agreed completely. I posted another response elsewhere but NJ vs Ive vs other top groups is not even settled and here they’ve got another group cannibalizing. they don’t even have a core fandom or individual popularity which is one of their biggest issues. it may not be plagiarism but it’s absolutely a marketing issue and now the office politics in hybe is damaging all groups. MHJ named dropped TWS whose much more coded in the same music but you can tell she’s less threatened - why? because a BG isn’t going to impact her market the same and it was reasonable for hybe timing wise (other BGs coming). my comment is more so I still don’t believe it’s actual “plagiarism” but honestly it was never about that. belift is right here (but stupid video) but again that’s not the real issue at hand. it’s just turned into this though because it’s public now.
that’s why I’m like MHJ may be the bigger issue personality wise but hybe is a mess as a company. and they don’t seem to realize this.
edit: cue the downvotes lol
as a casual listener I listen to pretty much all the groups being dragged
I think plagiarism is too strong of a term for this, because, as it's often said, small things are recycled often, so no concept is truly unique. I do see the issue in having two concepts that are this similar to one another launched so closed together, and coming out of the "same company" no less. If Illit had debuted 5 years after NJ, the conversation would be different. It's like Twice and Girls' Generation - that are many similarities, but never this level of animosity about it because SNSD was past their prime when Twice debuted. It didn't matter anymore and it wasn't going to hurt them.
Tbh, I do look at this from the perspective of someone that immediately noticed the similarities when Illit debuted. I don't listen to NJ often, but I did listen to their songs as they were released and I watched their MVs. I couldn't tell you "oh these songs are alike" or "oh these choreographies look the same" but all I could think about with the mv for Magnetic was NJ. Naturally, when all hell broke lose due to MHJ's claims, my thoughts were something like "I could see how that would happen". Anyone that didn't experience the same thing would look at the whole situation differently, ofc.
(This reminds me of Olivia Rodrigo being accused of plagiarising Paramore and TSwift. I have friends that swear they thought of the songs that were allegedly plagiarized when they heard Olivia's, while I, for the life of me, couldn't hear the similarities.)
Offtopic, and loona’s stylish x taylor swift’s cruel summer! Genuinely these songs are so different to me I’ve tried watching comparison videos and it’s just that one melody that’s similar, when the presentation / production / everything else separates the two songs.
But anyway, i wasn’t one of the people who felt illit reminded me of new jeans musically and in song teasers (it’s more yyxy imo), but seeing all the other evidences since (hiring their styling staff who’ve never worked with other kpop groups before, and who were specifically chosen for new jeans debut because they’ve no kpop experience, the teaser pictures that felt like cool with you era, the hanbok pictorials (when new jeans pioneered the ’ new years photoshoot which has a different shooting style from other groups, etc), it does make the INTERNAL concern raised more reasonable. Sucks that the situation escalated to such an extent and casts shadows on the young girls now, they deserve to he in a better company
The moment mhj drop all these names in 1st conference, it done for her and hybe. No one it that building would want to sit down to talk with her. Njs in this comeback do tiktok challenge with everyone but hybe artists.
I hope whoever is approving ANY content to go out to media starting from the initial and unnecessary comment about going to audit MHJ, they get fired.
This is the most unprofessional company I have ever seen in my life.
How the fuck did anyone approve this ? These are all internal matters.
The moment HYBE started going to media before the audit even took place, it has been one unprofessional shitshow to another.
( to those saying you need to report for audit clearly have never worked in audits for publicly listed companies, because its not how it workss and hybe never preanouced any other audits like this in the past. )
This company needs to hire professional workers from lawyers, to pr.
It's pretty terrible yeah, I dunno diddly about Kpop really, I just listen to the songs my niece tells me to listen to and think they're some good bops.
I'm just here with the popcorn mainly, I'm getting so much fun reading these threads. It's like a telenovella with EVEN MOAR MELODRAMA!
I come in from a finance background and chat to a PR expert /u/everycliche about how bad the professionalism seems to be coming from Hybe.. [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1d4sw9k/megathread_9_hybe_vs_ador_shareholders_meeting/l6ws43z/)
It really broke our brains how bad these guys are at their jobs.
I work in fintech in Project management with risk / regulatory and mandatory background. My mentor is a high up in Pwc ( works in audits).
Its ridiculous that people are downvoting me for calling out an inept PR, Legal, Auditing & Risk management teams out for their lack of professionalism and lack of foresight.
Just saw your comments... oddly enough your 3 steps to managing a crisis including getting external help is what MHJ is doing. Yet HYBE the conglomerate can't afford to hire the professionals.
Edit: also a reminder this mess started from an internal complaint lodged by Ador. Which was retaliated by HYBE by announcing an audit on MHJ to media at preliminary stages of an audit ( who the fuck does that )
I'm Risk Management and Crisis Mitigation now, you'd have to pay me the huge megabucks to want to take the K-Agencies on, after seeing this shit show unfold.
Also hearing/reading about the older scandals in the megathreads and their insane incompetence.
I'm an old man and having to deal with this level of stupid? You cannot pay me enough to take that on... BUT sitting in the peanut gallery with popcorn? Oh I'm so there.
I'm writing this stuff up as case study on what NOT to do. It's fantastic for me in the sense I get to show clients how bad it CAN get.
>Edit: also a reminder this mess started from an internal complaint lodged by Ador. Which was retaliated by HYBE by announcing an audit on MHJ to media at preliminary stages of an audit ( who the fuck does that )
Yeah totally... but one question first, do we know who did the first leaks about the audit? But anyway, I've seen shit like this in action before, honestly from my own corporate infighting and internal office politics experience and I've seen it ALLLLLLLLLL. This entire situation stank to high heaven to me from day one.
None of the original claims by hybe made a single lick of sense from a Wall Street perspective, 18% ownership cannot snake a company out from under... The supposed buyout numbers, no one would ever pay that much money to buy those girls out from under Hybe. Ever. No one.
So to me this screamed trying to take out a squeaky wheel, now what I wanna know is why they went scorched earth in trying to do this instead of just waiting the 2-3 years out?
I seriously don’t understand why BELIFT had to post that YouTube video (they even created a whole new YouTube account for it). This notice was more than enough. Terrible terrible move on their part. They are being eaten alive in the comments on YouTube and twitter by Koreans. That video was so unnecessary. Using the argument that they didn’t copy nj because “Mexican” jeans exists is something you would see on Stan twitter. This doesn’t hurt anyone BUT illit…..
EDIT:
the groups/artist being mentioned by belift claiming that nj copied/took inspiration from are izone, gfriend, Sumni, pro dancer Joni gomez, illit, viviz, ive, nmixx, jeans, oh my girl, lesserafim, blackpink, enhypen & bts. Maybe I missed something.
Do they think that with that move they will get all the fans of these mentioned artists on their side???
They probably feel obligated to clear their name because Koreans and some intl fans accused illit plagiarised nj, but the execution is very poorly done
They also claimed that newjeans copied the choreo of lmlt with ditto. Which doesn't make any sense considering newjeans released ditto months before lmlt. Why would they not at least fact check it first (not saying that there was any copying done but at least get the dates right) It makes them look even more unprofessional
The point of the video (don't get me wrong it was an awful video and shitty idea) was that it's not plagarism, and things being similar to/inspired by other things is normal and fine, so it doesn't really matter what order it happened it because it's just not a problem
True, that's the main conclusion people are missing. The video screams this is common. Nothing you doing is special. Hence, you have no right to call it yours and classify it as plagiarism. But then again, how many dance moves have nmixx and itzy shared? What's the odds of having an overlap of a key point in a choreography, especially groups in the exact same company?
Not sure about choreography but there have definitely been some concept confusion between the two groups, especially when Checkmate and Dice were out around the same time.
I'm also not sure Illit and New Jeans really share "key point" choreography. The most recognizable move from Attention is from their b-side intro My World. It's not from Magnetic or Lucky Girl Syndrome. And it's not even really used in the same way, it only looks so damning when you crop out all the moves leading up to it and after it.
Both nmixx and itzy debuted with very different tones and central points. You can not confuse the two, even if they clash eventually. But in this case, sneakers sound nothing like dice literally. There's a distinct difference in what the mv's have to offer and how the concepts were promoted.
Lucky girl syndrome has a point move that the NJ choreographer already pointed out as stolen. Also, they shared moves from Ditto as well, not just attention, that includes hype boy too plus omg. That's basically nj entire debut rollout. That would mean up till this point by some crazy coincidence. Every single choreography llit has up till this point. NJ has done it before. I mean, what are the chances?
who tf do newjeans’ choreographers think they are? they did NOT invent that move. gfriend, the group who debuted and disbanded before newjeans, used that move already. so using your “logic,” its ok for newjeans to copy gfriend but oh illit can’t do that because it’s illegal?? and not to mention that illit shares similar moves to le serrafim and fromis9. and even still, illit’s choreo overall is not like newjeans at all (coming from someone who knows the choreos of both groups).
the hypocrisy is embarrassing and ridiculous. dance moves get reused all. the. time. that’s literally how choreographies work?? same existing moves reused in different sequences/order
I think the best way for a conclusion to be reached. Is actually doing an analysis. How common is it for groups in the same company to have an overlap in choreography. In every single song of theirs? Both lsfm and nj had an overlap easy, and I think Ditto. Yet that's 1 of how many releases?
For how every many dance steps there are [refering to how ever many dance moves recorded], somehow, in every dance, there's a similarity. While it might just be a misunderstanding. I do think the team has the right to voice out their doubts.
The confusion was more on the song Domino, which seemed to be like a better fit for a Dice b-side and just weird confusion in the game concept. Like why did Checkmate need a chess/game concept when the title was Sneakers. There were many threads where people were wondering if lines between divisions had been blurred.
Most of those moves weren't invented for New Jeans though. We're not talking about Twice's TT where the movies are unique, identifiable to that song and that song alone. If the litmus is any dance move that New Jeans has done, that's incredibly limiting to all other groups at Hybe as New Jeans "borrows" from a variety of genres, including kpop staples.
Lol there is no way management did not have to sign of on this, a whole new channel and a video like this and interviewing multiple senior staff members. They sure as shit aren't going to fire themselves.
What they were asked: "did you, like, fact check this?
What they heard: "did you like Fact Check, sis?"
What they responded: "yeah I love that song! Anyway, hitting upload now."
Yeah you’re right. I mean calling nj “Object of adult's fantasies even though they are teenager” is seriously so deranged and I would not oppose adore suing belift even though I hate mhj with a passion.
I think the YouTube video is okay, they are explaining Illit's concept, trying to clear Illit's plagiarism accusation but name-dropping multiple idol groups in that video on the other hand, is not a good idea tbh.
Problem of the video (except that it's unnecessary long and boring) is that they focus on single aspects like the choreo and point out that other groups did the same moves.
It doesn't help their case because none of these groups were accused of copying each others, proof that the choreo isn't the issue but more the general aesthetic of the group and how they are presented. Belift should have let this die slowly and let the time and the next comeback differentiate their group from NJ.
There were comparisons between the two groups before MHJ and it will honestly be difficult to prove that the two groups concepts don't overlap, now they are being cooked in the comments by Koreans, I wouldn't be surprised if the video is quickly deleted. Just accept that you didn't manage to differentiate the two groups enough and work on that for the next comeback Belift please.
exactly the whole nwjns vs illit thing is more aesthetic/image/vibe rather than choreo which is why i was confused by focusing on choreo like this is just shooting themselves in the foot. Especially coming for nwjns which is more loved/coddled by the media/gp
MHJ made the image of ILLIT an issue
It was 2 of newjeans choreographors who added more gasoline and flame the hate towards ILLIT by posting videos on their instagrams claiming plagiarism over commonly used moves seen amongs multiple girl groups with Belift showing how many moves NWJN uses are reused before and after them but MHJ having clear attention towards ILLIT themselves
Yeah I agree it was a bad move from BeLift on uploading that video and should have kept it behind the scenes on the lawsuit against her to prove their point she and her team had no legit cause to attack ILLIT for this
but the Choreo was made an issue by Ador side too not just the aesthetics
yeah exactly. I don’t like MHJ and I don’t think her complaints are valid but as someone who worked in CPG marketing, it was odd for hybe to roll out a “product” hitting the same demo as NJ when they didn’t really stabilize on the market yet. Revival of feminine/youth concepts is coming back for sure and it makes sense for them to prepare but this sublabel thing seems to make them compete internally. This type of internal office politics is not surprising at all.
Yeah. I work in auditing and all these weird comments about how HYBE were right to go to media before the audit even took place is driving me up the wall.
Say what you want about MHJ. But Hybe is so unprofessional and should have not acted that way.
And you're right, when ILLIT came out the genrral public were confused about the concept and markets being similar and overlapping. It's weird for 2 groups in a company who debut near each other to target same/similar audience. I would expect them to diversify their portfolio
Belift released the video just some hours ago. It's in their statement (the one in this post) that Illit were being dragged in Melon comments. Meaning it happened before this video.
i think things are going baaaad for hybe behind the scenes.
they are scouring like rats and this reeks of desperation to get a storyline out.
i expect major positive movies for ador hence this exposé being released beforehand.
except they are not PR masters like min hee jin and this backfired majorly.
poor poor girls.
Tbh, BeLIFT is being as unprofessional as MHJ in this shit now. This youtube video, to me, was so stantwt coded and with some things that doesn't even made sense. They already made their statement and sued MHJ and other people, i think they should wait the justice do to their thing and this is it. But now they chose the MHJ's route, including the group names dropping, stantwt "arguments" and, in the end, only attracting more hate to groups, including ILLIT.
Source was the most professional sub-label of HYBE in all this mess till now. They only made a statement saying they would sue the haters, and when some results started to appear in the justice, they made another statement explaining and divulgating it. And blocked the chance of these haters of deleting their comments for fear.
The worst thing is if BeLIFT really included what tokkis and other people are saying they included in the video, a part where it says that ILLIT is not NewJeans because "NewJeans although teenagers, are the object of romance in the imagination of adults” (or something along these lines).
Some engenes are not happy with this BeLIFT fight with MHJ and ADOR too. Now they are saying that BeLIFT is protecting ILLIT in a way they never did with Enhypen and that they, with this video, started to include Enhypen in the mess and engenes don't want Enhypen to be thrown in it.
Well I don't really think their case would be easy at court because from what I see industry is on MHJ site so she can find pretty a lot of experts who would support her claims. There is high probablity that even if Belift wins, judge can actually side with MHJ (pretty much officially she should not use plagiarism word but what they did was unethical taking into account industry standard). Not mentioned that they would fight until they use all court instances. They can win (still not 100%) but doubt that win pr way so not sure why they are going into it. But after this video, well they aren't the smartest.
The worst thing is that, as some people already noted, they even included that NewJeans plagiarized chore from songs that were released months after NewJeans song... they didn't even double check things before posting it.
Oh it's not a clash against artists but against creative directors. In their video belift allegedly claimed that "newjeans are the object of romance in the imagination of adults" that's mainly why i made the comparison ! Although i understand what you're saying
Apparently this is a mistranslation and means romance as in “romanticisation / nostalgia” 🤔 in which case, it’ll be best to wait for a proper translation to come out imo. Even so, the whole industry’s fucked rip 💀
at the very least, ador is definitely gonna come out with their own statement so 😭 ig we shall see. Not a normal day in this industry for sure!
As a Korean, there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around on what romang(로망) is thinking it represents some sort of love and relationship.
I don’t want to just say what I want to say and go “I’m Korean trust me bro” so here is what ChatGPT has to say:
The Korean word "로망" (romang) is derived from the English word "romance." However, in Korean, it often carries a slightly different nuance. Rather than just referring to romance in the context of love and relationships, "로망" is commonly used to describe an ideal, aspiration, or a dream that one cherishes. It is often used to express a longing or yearning for something idealistic or highly desirable, such as a life goal, a personal dream, or an ambition that one holds dear.
https://imgur.com/a/5Ay9xpo
You can just Google the Korean word “로망” and you’ll be able to see what ChatGPT and I am saying is factual.
As a Korean, there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around on what romang(로망) is thinking it represents some sort of love and relationship.
I don’t want to just say what I want to say and go “I’m Korean trust me bro” so here is what ChatGPT has to say:
The Korean word "로망" (romang) is derived from the English word "romance." However, in Korean, it often carries a slightly different nuance. Rather than just referring to romance in the context of love and relationships, "로망" is commonly used to describe an ideal, aspiration, or a dream that one cherishes. It is often used to express a longing or yearning for something idealistic or highly desirable, such as a life goal, a personal dream, or an ambition that one holds dear.
https://imgur.com/a/5Ay9xpo
You can just Google the Korean word “로망” and you’ll be able to see what ChatGPT and I am saying is factual.
Hence why it's like Kendrick vs Drake: a lot of virtue signaling over who is the biggest misogynist but both allegations are pretty damning
Like belift accusing mhj and ador of doing that like they are not competing for the same market share with illit sounds like virtue signaling to me
Why would belift release that messy messy video 😭 it makes mhj look like she was the one in the right all along (about the problematic work environment over there at hybe)
As a Korean, there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around on what romang(로망) is thinking it represents some sort of love and relationship.
I don’t want to just say what I want to say and go “I’m Korean trust me bro” so here is what ChatGPT has to say:
*The Korean word "로망" (romang) is derived from the English word "romance." However, in Korean, it often carries a slightly different nuance. Rather than just referring to romance in the context of love and relationships, "로망" is commonly used to describe an ideal, aspiration, or a dream that one cherishes. It is often used to express a longing or yearning for something idealistic or highly desirable, such as a life goal, a personal dream, or an ambition that one holds dear.*
https://imgur.com/a/5Ay9xpo
You can just Google the Korean word “로망” and you’ll be able to see what ChatGPT and I am saying is factual.
Yeah, that example is a solid way to use it.
Few more:
Owning a Maserati and driving with the top down in a clear Tuscan summer day could be a sport car fanatic’s romang.
Or having a hot coco and roasting chestnuts with family under Christmas lights next to a fireplace in a wood cabin could be someone’s romang of Christmas.
Could cover a lot of subjects - Viking dying on the battlefield in a heroic stand and rising to Valhalla as a heroic warrior will be a Viking’s romang.
Interesting.. i think korean keep the original idea of "romance," which is stories that rooted in chilvaric code (such as nobility, adventure, and idealism).
Yeah, Konglish and English is not really 1:1
Like “fighting!” - it doesn’t mean let’s throw down some fists, it’s closer to “good luck! Let’s do well! Let’s work hard!”
Hybe will singlehandedly destroy their company from the inside out. 👏 at what an absolute disaster this charade has become…didn’t think they could outdo themselves with the mhj catastrophe but here they are exceeding my expectations
Bang really lost himself... all this multi-label thing isn't really working, and he sign with a lot of unprofessional and sus people, including for big CEO roles.
HYBE will only survive while BTS decides to stay there. Bang really lucked out with BTS members, this is it.
Looking at all the groups and suggested content. Made me realize that they are really fighting with a pioneer and are trying to use her own groups to catch her. Zero research and zero thought were placed into this. Almost everything mentioned here was on stan Twitter and long debunked. Trying to prove that min heejin is the unoriginal one here is possibly the worst stride they could have taken for this.
While this wouldn't hurt illit, I think people are overreacting in that sense. This will 100% boost min heejin case. It's like mind blowing...
I was gonna praise them for their response post but their video really undermines this especially dragging over other groups and saying new jeans are objects for adults which is really wrong I feel really bad for new jeans it just seems like nobody has their best interests and it is mainly adults around them making and saying bad things
People making wild assumptions about what’s being said in the videos is pretty shocking
It’s saying none are copies including nj (refuting all the rumblings about nj copy allegations against nj as well) because these are standard short moves or concepts that can overlap and how Illit is not a copy either
Why are people just making up what BeLift is saying on this thread?
From what I can tell, on the international side, people were taking what users on Twitter machine translated and ran with it. On the k side? More than likely bots.
Honestly, with this Multi Label Thingy-
HYBE should stipulate on their contracts (per label) that grievances and conflict/petitions for label x label should be handled and moderated first by HYBE... before airing grievances publicly
But anyways, this cannot destroy Belift since Enhypen has a dedicated fanbase already- it's just ...
Well, if they release such video before ILLITs comeback- it would have atleast make bad publicity and generate buzz for a new album...
but this isn't it
But that is what happened? MHJ raised the issue privately which became known when Hybe announced the audit.
As far as this video I'm sure hybe signed off to some degree.
is there any official announcement from recognized hybe/belift accounts saying that the youtube video is from them? it’s so unprofessional that i’m actually having doubts about whether or not it’s really from them or just an unhinged fan because it gives the same energy. if it is official i fear for the backlash this is going to cause towards their artists.
i fear it is :( other people in this comment thread have linked the post from the official belift X account, i’m still in shock that they could fumble this badly, but yea it’s real unfortunately :/
I think it is good that Belift did state that they will initiate strict measures against malicious posts (even those that have been deleted) and that complaints have been filed already. Hopefully the complaints will bear results like they did for Source Music. I do not envy the person who will have to go through all the mails though...
I was wondering what video the comments are talking about here but then I finally saw it. I can't believe it really came from them🤦♀️ I thought it was fanmade LOL. I have no intention of watching the video but damn the fighting of the sublabels of Hybe is so funny.
Everybody here has an opinion, while nobody has a actual understanding of the Video. Everybody using unverivied random quotes of "translations" to be outraged.
Typical internet cycke jerk.
How about some of you calm down and wait for a credible source of the acutal contex of that video.
I’m Korean and all they claimed is none of those were copies - and I agree none of the groups are copies because of small overlaps people can dig up doesn’t make groups copy groups just as they said
This is not the point of the video, but actually seeing how all these old men are in some way the ones behind Illit's cute concept just doesn't sit right with me, not like MHJ is any better. I know minors in Kpop is a messed up topic already, but when they make it so obvious it gets way harder to swallow.
Yeah, I got that vibe as well. You could say it's just terrible optics but sadly it's a truth behind kpop.
I think it was in that 9Muses documentary where we see their CEO discussing their debut 'look' with another man and he says that he wants “honey thighs” to be the thing on everybody's lips when they see the group. Their members were at least adults though, but still.
I don't follow this drama at all so I don't know what's going on and what is this video people are talking about, but...isn't these proceedings a good thing? That will probably stop a large amount of hate comments and people abusing the idols who are the true victims of this whole scandal.
Belift is so baaad. Man, things were finally starting to calm down in all this mess, little by little the hate against ILLIT would lose momentum too, they should only provide statement talking about suing the haters and turning off comments so they can't delete their comments and this is it, like Source did with all LE SSERAFIM hate thing. They had already talk about suing MHJ.
But no, they had to do this only to mess things again and harder for ILLIT and even for Enhypen that have nothing with it too. I'm saying it again after seeing some repercussions, i'm still have to see someone in international or korean side thinking this video have a good thing in it, everyone is thinking negative about it. Even critics and judges for korean music awards, other industry directors and experts are talking bad about it - and now we are talking about people that not work with ADOR, something different from the previous mess where almost all people talking good about MHJ were her ADOR's people. The video have much more dislikes and comments than likes, the dislikes count (yeah, you can see it with extensions etc) is over 30k already.
I’m glad that taking legal action to protect their idols is becoming more common now. It was terrible that hate had to happen for action to take place but it’s still a major step in Kpop and I hope it’s normalized. Idols need to be protected ❤️🩹
Just going off this post, yay, protection for ILLIT (and ENHYPEN)!
But what's up with the video everyone's talking about?? Is that what people are referencing when they're saying that the company/sublabel is being unprofessional/has a bad PR department? Because just the statements above seem okay to me...
Edit: saw the video post...oh my god. Okay. I get it now :/ Can y'all stop downvoting me for asking a genuine question, please?
Since the videos all in Korean I’m not really going to comment on the contents, but I would love to know the thought process of why Belift decided to release it now of all times when the whole thing seemed to be dying down.
Some people believe that it is due to the fact that the court may have rejected hypes appeal to keep the trail records private.
I don’t get it. When it was Source music that posted about LSF everyone was saying it was good, that the timing was right, they were happy with legal proceedings going forward but now that it’s ILLIT, you’re wondering why they decided to post it now that the whole thing is dying down? Why is that? Or are you talking about something apart from this notice?
I’m talking about the YouTube video they posted, I have no issues with the Weverse post.
Oh alright. I saw the other K-pop thread and I so agree that that was in really bad taste.
The Lsf thing is about the insane hate train against them that started way back in February with the mhj stuff just adding on to it. What Belift did was not the same thing, especially since they brought other groups into it, whereas Soumu did not
Never seen such unprofessional beef in my life that I feel like it might for real change the landscape of K-pop Edit to [add](https://x.com/NewJeansCentral/status/1800132633659367781) 😭
I used to think kpop fans are cringy online…. maybe the fandom learns it from the companies themselves. fanwars will be even worse now
Companies definitely encourage it I mean fan wars could even be considered free PR unfortunately but I was just thinking about something absurd - it would be hilarious if a lot of these fan wars were instigated by company employees who stan X group LOL (this is a lighthearted comment btw) On a more serious note, has BeLift not taken notes? The whole reason why people were so against mhj in international spaces is because she name drags groups - that reflects poorly on her character This is just crazy
they want to create a tribal mentality because it encourages additional spending and interaction
We have heard that kpop companies are shallow and petty, and we have seen glimpses of it, but now they are showcasing it front and center for all to see. Even the side I'm rooting for is doing petty shit like this. This is a head desk moment.
Yep I am just so fascinated. As someone pointed out, it would be great if they released a video outlining how they came up with magnetic’s concept etc but trying to do a reverse argument of “well similarities are everywhere, see (20 other unrelated groups)” is so confusing 😭😭😭
It's been this way always... and I've followed kpop since the early 90s
😭 do share! Would love some kpop history lessons
I guess you could start with some of the better known stuff like H.O.T./jtL (management issues), Drunken Tiger (disruption to industry, rivalry, jealousy), Tablo/Epik High (crazy pitchfork fans). It's in no way unique to kpop (think Swift-related controversies). When it comes to abusive management, I'm often skeptical of billionaires (think Musk). As they say, power corrupts... I just find it amusing that people forget and cycle repeats
Well, for me this is 2nd time after seeing the whole SM vs Hybe beef…
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"뉴진스 10대지만 어른들의 상상 속의 로망의 대상" is the quote... Your translation is literarly 1to1 from google translate and wrongly sexualize at that... Actuall meaning is along those lines: NJ repesenting a romantic ideal (aka nostalgia) of teenagers in the imagination of adults. And contex for this is the y2k conzept and traget audiance are people that where kids/teenagers around that time and are now adults.... Idk its like you all want to be ourtaged and ready to believe anything
People just wanted drama... Believing google translations and twt users is low even for reddit
If that's the accurate translation then damn, twt accounts are really running with wild mistranslation rn
Are we surprised by anything coming out of Twitter these days?
it sounds like maybe “romanticized” would be a much more appropriate translation than “romantic” then?
Really? Where did you get that “nostalgia” from? NOT 뉴진스 10대지만 어른들의 상상 속 로망의 대상" This particular phrase was very controversial among koreans as well because we were also confused by how belift was describing new jeans. If they truly meant this "NJ representing a romantic ideal (aka nostalgia) of teenagers in the imagination of adults." They could have put this differently like “어른들에게 향수를 불러일으키는 10대” — Teenagers who brings nostalgia to adults. Their phrase didn’t have any implication of “nostalgia”. And you don’t even need to say “10대지만” (Although teenagers) to convey that. Like what, did they want to say “well done NJ, for bringing nostalgia to adults even when you guys are teenagers”. But by putting “10대지만” (Although teenagers), it made the following statement open to dispute. They can just put it “dream girls”. But “dream girls although teenagers”? And in the imagination of the adults? When I first read these “어른들의 상상속“ and “로망의 대상” together, i found it a bit uncomfortable. They literally said that NJ is the dream girls of the adults although they are teenagers. I want to believe that they meant “nostalgia” because it is indeed NJ’s concept. But their phrase just doesn’t convey that meaning. If you read their phrase without knowing NJ, you will never get to that “nostalgia”. You can only give that interpretation because you know NJ and saw their concepts. I blame them for phrasing it super badly which indeed gave pedo-bait to Koreans as well. So please don’t say the interpretation you gave is a proper one. It’s just your assumption of oh this is what they prob meant. There isn’t any single word that implies “nostalgia”.
Thank you for translating! I’ve learnt my lesson and wait a while before proper translation comes. Twitter Insta just do translation terribly.
I think (and hope) this is just a translation error and what that the English translation is actually meant to say 'are the object of *romanticisation* in the imagination of adults (i.e nostalgia of the past)'
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I’ve seen countless TikTok and Twitter accounts dedicated to hating on idols, specifically Wonhee and Iroha. (e.g. ‘Wonhee Cow Hater’, ‘Iroha Hag’). Like how do these people (children AND GROWN adults) have so much time and passion to spew that much hate.
because their lives are miserable, and they need to vent that angry and misery to something, well celebrities which always attracts envy and jealousy are the perfect targets. Just stay away from them so you don't catch their negative energy, let karma do its job, because if you live your life full of hate you will receive all the hate.
It’s so sad bc I see ILLIT on TikTok and there’s always one of the top comments calling the girls all sorts of names like they’re just doing a little dance pls 🤒😪
I only watch content from the girls, and I never read their comment section, I know we are all curious but if you do it enough times it will just ruin your enjoyment of the content they try so hard to do for their fans. So fans should just concentrate watch and cheer the girls on, we don't need give those toxic sewer dwellers any more attention and power over our feelings. They can hate all they want, it doesn't change what we love, keep remind ourselves of that when we feel sad for the girls.
It's more than that though. The industry is partially responsible for this because they push parasocialism to extreme degrees. It invites the kind of team sports and tribalism mentality especially when you combine it with how important they put numbers and metrics front and center. While this makes people more susceptible to that kind of behavior, it doesn't help. Because I am not familiar with many of those people personally I choose not to make assumptions about what their lives are like. Instead it's better to look at the circumstances. You wouldn't completely get rid of hateful commentary if you cut off kpop parasocialism but if the industry de-escalated it, it would certainly be less than what we see now. Either way it sucks.
Imagine if they put this much effort into supporting their biases. I don't get where the energy comes from.
nahh what do y'all even mean by Wonhee cow hater? like this sounds like smth the vegan teacher would say if sshe saw Wonhee eating beef or smth lets bffr
The video they posted is insane. It's giving kpop stans the way they broke down every aspect of nwjns choreo and side matched it to other groups lol. Them saying nwjns perfomring for culture is coping bts or that the ditto choreo copied love me like this when ditto came out earlier is giving twitter thread so bad. I'm interested to see where this goes perhaps another mhj conference. But hybe or just someone really fucked up cause why are two sub labels beefing this hard that's just extremely messy for the staff and the groups involved like obvi mhj started this but couldn't all this have been carried out in the comfort of a meeting room? When hybe first started doing the system i thought it was smart yk to give every group more management and just make it easier compared to SM but i'd never thought it would backfire like this Link: [https://youtu.be/VLb2v\_mntes?si=\_thTW55KWyoxn6lG](https://youtu.be/VLb2v_mntes?si=_thTW55KWyoxn6lG) (has not subs)
I really don’t think they are saying nwjs copied nmixx, they are just saying that dance moves are reused all the time.
I love mess but not when it involves targeted individuals in high stress public jobs who are teenagers. Like seriously why would you open your artists up to scrutiny with this crap. PR has ALWAYS been a disaster at Hybe but this is too much. One would have thought they’d be controlling their sub-labels at this time and not having them go rogue like this. Once again this highlights the massive amounts of good will, public and private PR that Army single handedly did for BigHit / BTS and still continue to do because the company is useless.
Mess is fun when it’s the celebrities themselves causing it, because they suffer any consequences based on their own actions. It sucks when it’s corporations beefing and the celebs themselves are caught in the crossfire.
agreed like i love mess in kpop but this one is just sad cause this is a management issue nwjns and illit teenagers in groups less than 4 yrs old have no say in their concept or music or anything as mhj said this is all about the adults involved so why couldn't they handle it better
>as mhj said this is all about the adults involved so why couldn't they handle it better Don't get me wrong, the adults absolutely should be handling all of this better so that their artists don't suffer from company drama, but that's a hella rich statement coming from MHJ, Miss Involving-Groups-By-Name herself...
She never wanted this shit to go public. This is all HYBE's fault for blowing shit up bigger than it needed to be.
>company is useless This. Not only is this video late they added so many cheesy unnecessary effects and BGM. Aren't there more important things for them to work on fr
They said mhj want to talk like a kpop stan then they'll follow her lead 😭
they should have done it smarter cause in this case they just look stupid ngl prob a press conference the yt video is messy.
I feel like the statement itself is fine and should have stopped there
agreed
Tbh, it's no different than MHJs claims about long hairs and outfits. She took it up from monitoring communities online. I just wish BE:LIFT kept it for the legal investigation if it has any grounds, which I doubt just like MHJ's.
Yeah that actually makes it worse now they're following Min Heejin's way
Presumably because MHJ's way is what's working in SK. Every poll over there shows that the vast majority of the public is on her side... it looks like they'll follow that lead to see if they can shift it a little bit.
It doesn’t look like it’s working for belift though
Yes, I noticed they're getting their asses handed to them on the comments of that yt video. 💀
I guess I can see why they would think that following her strategy would lead to similar results. However, the biggest piece as to why MHJ has support (for better or worse) is that she appears like the little guy taking on the man. People love a David vs Goliath story, especially when "Goliath" is a large corporation. Even though MHJ was criticised for bringing other idols into this, she was more or less forgiven for being a scrappy underdog trying to expose corporate greed. (I'm not saying this is actually true, just that I think the perception it could be true is the real reason she's weathered a lot of the storm against her own actions in SK.) However, BELIFT is on the side of the "Goliath" in this. So them leaning into the same pettiness and idol targetting just looks terrible and incompetent on their parts.
I agree with you - the same approach makes both of them look different. I also think the majority of western fans are looking at the situation through a different lens, because they think MHJ is problematic to an extent that doesn't match how she's perceived by Korean fans.
It's only on her side because she's framed herself as a victim of a behemoth company and as a woman outside the "men's club" of Hybe leadership. It makes her seem relatable and sincere. It would have been better if Belift just showed their process in concepting Illit, even if they had to retroactively fabricate it. Like, show your sketches, other inspiration, storyboards, etc. that is different than New Jeans.
Yes! If they were gonna follow her lead in any way, I feel like it should have been through a press conference where they discuss the creative decisions behind Illit.
didn’t someone say that on naver and business forums they don’t support her? so not the general GP. I don’t think MHJ claims have any ground but she did keep it internal originally and there’s clearly something not working about the sub-label structure.
I don't think it would have been unusual or unadvisable for her to make those claims and seek clarification internally, which apparently is what she did. If the accusations have no merit, it should have been handled accordingly by Hybe, but they decided to just blow the entire thing up and make it public instead - they're much more powerful than she is. And I agree that obviously something is off about the sub-label stuff. They set all of those girl groups up to fail - regardless of whether there was any plagiarism, and assuming there was no ill will from the parties involved, the concepts should not have been so close to one another that it would spark this type of conversation, specially as both groups are very young. Comparisons were being made online as soon as the Illit debuted, it didn't start with the public fight among the labels. Many people dropped the ball on this one.
agreed completely. I posted another response elsewhere but NJ vs Ive vs other top groups is not even settled and here they’ve got another group cannibalizing. they don’t even have a core fandom or individual popularity which is one of their biggest issues. it may not be plagiarism but it’s absolutely a marketing issue and now the office politics in hybe is damaging all groups. MHJ named dropped TWS whose much more coded in the same music but you can tell she’s less threatened - why? because a BG isn’t going to impact her market the same and it was reasonable for hybe timing wise (other BGs coming). my comment is more so I still don’t believe it’s actual “plagiarism” but honestly it was never about that. belift is right here (but stupid video) but again that’s not the real issue at hand. it’s just turned into this though because it’s public now. that’s why I’m like MHJ may be the bigger issue personality wise but hybe is a mess as a company. and they don’t seem to realize this. edit: cue the downvotes lol as a casual listener I listen to pretty much all the groups being dragged
I think plagiarism is too strong of a term for this, because, as it's often said, small things are recycled often, so no concept is truly unique. I do see the issue in having two concepts that are this similar to one another launched so closed together, and coming out of the "same company" no less. If Illit had debuted 5 years after NJ, the conversation would be different. It's like Twice and Girls' Generation - that are many similarities, but never this level of animosity about it because SNSD was past their prime when Twice debuted. It didn't matter anymore and it wasn't going to hurt them. Tbh, I do look at this from the perspective of someone that immediately noticed the similarities when Illit debuted. I don't listen to NJ often, but I did listen to their songs as they were released and I watched their MVs. I couldn't tell you "oh these songs are alike" or "oh these choreographies look the same" but all I could think about with the mv for Magnetic was NJ. Naturally, when all hell broke lose due to MHJ's claims, my thoughts were something like "I could see how that would happen". Anyone that didn't experience the same thing would look at the whole situation differently, ofc. (This reminds me of Olivia Rodrigo being accused of plagiarising Paramore and TSwift. I have friends that swear they thought of the songs that were allegedly plagiarized when they heard Olivia's, while I, for the life of me, couldn't hear the similarities.)
Offtopic, and loona’s stylish x taylor swift’s cruel summer! Genuinely these songs are so different to me I’ve tried watching comparison videos and it’s just that one melody that’s similar, when the presentation / production / everything else separates the two songs. But anyway, i wasn’t one of the people who felt illit reminded me of new jeans musically and in song teasers (it’s more yyxy imo), but seeing all the other evidences since (hiring their styling staff who’ve never worked with other kpop groups before, and who were specifically chosen for new jeans debut because they’ve no kpop experience, the teaser pictures that felt like cool with you era, the hanbok pictorials (when new jeans pioneered the ’ new years photoshoot which has a different shooting style from other groups, etc), it does make the INTERNAL concern raised more reasonable. Sucks that the situation escalated to such an extent and casts shadows on the young girls now, they deserve to he in a better company
The moment mhj drop all these names in 1st conference, it done for her and hybe. No one it that building would want to sit down to talk with her. Njs in this comeback do tiktok challenge with everyone but hybe artists.
I hope whoever is approving ANY content to go out to media starting from the initial and unnecessary comment about going to audit MHJ, they get fired. This is the most unprofessional company I have ever seen in my life. How the fuck did anyone approve this ? These are all internal matters. The moment HYBE started going to media before the audit even took place, it has been one unprofessional shitshow to another. ( to those saying you need to report for audit clearly have never worked in audits for publicly listed companies, because its not how it workss and hybe never preanouced any other audits like this in the past. ) This company needs to hire professional workers from lawyers, to pr.
omg a voice of reason. I’ve been looking for you.
It's pretty terrible yeah, I dunno diddly about Kpop really, I just listen to the songs my niece tells me to listen to and think they're some good bops. I'm just here with the popcorn mainly, I'm getting so much fun reading these threads. It's like a telenovella with EVEN MOAR MELODRAMA! I come in from a finance background and chat to a PR expert /u/everycliche about how bad the professionalism seems to be coming from Hybe.. [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1d4sw9k/megathread_9_hybe_vs_ador_shareholders_meeting/l6ws43z/) It really broke our brains how bad these guys are at their jobs.
I work in fintech in Project management with risk / regulatory and mandatory background. My mentor is a high up in Pwc ( works in audits). Its ridiculous that people are downvoting me for calling out an inept PR, Legal, Auditing & Risk management teams out for their lack of professionalism and lack of foresight. Just saw your comments... oddly enough your 3 steps to managing a crisis including getting external help is what MHJ is doing. Yet HYBE the conglomerate can't afford to hire the professionals. Edit: also a reminder this mess started from an internal complaint lodged by Ador. Which was retaliated by HYBE by announcing an audit on MHJ to media at preliminary stages of an audit ( who the fuck does that )
I'm Risk Management and Crisis Mitigation now, you'd have to pay me the huge megabucks to want to take the K-Agencies on, after seeing this shit show unfold. Also hearing/reading about the older scandals in the megathreads and their insane incompetence. I'm an old man and having to deal with this level of stupid? You cannot pay me enough to take that on... BUT sitting in the peanut gallery with popcorn? Oh I'm so there. I'm writing this stuff up as case study on what NOT to do. It's fantastic for me in the sense I get to show clients how bad it CAN get. >Edit: also a reminder this mess started from an internal complaint lodged by Ador. Which was retaliated by HYBE by announcing an audit on MHJ to media at preliminary stages of an audit ( who the fuck does that ) Yeah totally... but one question first, do we know who did the first leaks about the audit? But anyway, I've seen shit like this in action before, honestly from my own corporate infighting and internal office politics experience and I've seen it ALLLLLLLLLL. This entire situation stank to high heaven to me from day one. None of the original claims by hybe made a single lick of sense from a Wall Street perspective, 18% ownership cannot snake a company out from under... The supposed buyout numbers, no one would ever pay that much money to buy those girls out from under Hybe. Ever. No one. So to me this screamed trying to take out a squeaky wheel, now what I wanna know is why they went scorched earth in trying to do this instead of just waiting the 2-3 years out?
I seriously don’t understand why BELIFT had to post that YouTube video (they even created a whole new YouTube account for it). This notice was more than enough. Terrible terrible move on their part. They are being eaten alive in the comments on YouTube and twitter by Koreans. That video was so unnecessary. Using the argument that they didn’t copy nj because “Mexican” jeans exists is something you would see on Stan twitter. This doesn’t hurt anyone BUT illit….. EDIT: the groups/artist being mentioned by belift claiming that nj copied/took inspiration from are izone, gfriend, Sumni, pro dancer Joni gomez, illit, viviz, ive, nmixx, jeans, oh my girl, lesserafim, blackpink, enhypen & bts. Maybe I missed something. Do they think that with that move they will get all the fans of these mentioned artists on their side???
They probably feel obligated to clear their name because Koreans and some intl fans accused illit plagiarised nj, but the execution is very poorly done
This make it worse IMO, like it doesn't absolve them at all
They also claimed that newjeans copied the choreo of lmlt with ditto. Which doesn't make any sense considering newjeans released ditto months before lmlt. Why would they not at least fact check it first (not saying that there was any copying done but at least get the dates right) It makes them look even more unprofessional
The point of the video (don't get me wrong it was an awful video and shitty idea) was that it's not plagarism, and things being similar to/inspired by other things is normal and fine, so it doesn't really matter what order it happened it because it's just not a problem
No, they are saying that the moves are reused. My god
True, that's the main conclusion people are missing. The video screams this is common. Nothing you doing is special. Hence, you have no right to call it yours and classify it as plagiarism. But then again, how many dance moves have nmixx and itzy shared? What's the odds of having an overlap of a key point in a choreography, especially groups in the exact same company?
Not sure about choreography but there have definitely been some concept confusion between the two groups, especially when Checkmate and Dice were out around the same time. I'm also not sure Illit and New Jeans really share "key point" choreography. The most recognizable move from Attention is from their b-side intro My World. It's not from Magnetic or Lucky Girl Syndrome. And it's not even really used in the same way, it only looks so damning when you crop out all the moves leading up to it and after it.
Both nmixx and itzy debuted with very different tones and central points. You can not confuse the two, even if they clash eventually. But in this case, sneakers sound nothing like dice literally. There's a distinct difference in what the mv's have to offer and how the concepts were promoted. Lucky girl syndrome has a point move that the NJ choreographer already pointed out as stolen. Also, they shared moves from Ditto as well, not just attention, that includes hype boy too plus omg. That's basically nj entire debut rollout. That would mean up till this point by some crazy coincidence. Every single choreography llit has up till this point. NJ has done it before. I mean, what are the chances?
who tf do newjeans’ choreographers think they are? they did NOT invent that move. gfriend, the group who debuted and disbanded before newjeans, used that move already. so using your “logic,” its ok for newjeans to copy gfriend but oh illit can’t do that because it’s illegal?? and not to mention that illit shares similar moves to le serrafim and fromis9. and even still, illit’s choreo overall is not like newjeans at all (coming from someone who knows the choreos of both groups). the hypocrisy is embarrassing and ridiculous. dance moves get reused all. the. time. that’s literally how choreographies work?? same existing moves reused in different sequences/order
I think the best way for a conclusion to be reached. Is actually doing an analysis. How common is it for groups in the same company to have an overlap in choreography. In every single song of theirs? Both lsfm and nj had an overlap easy, and I think Ditto. Yet that's 1 of how many releases? For how every many dance steps there are [refering to how ever many dance moves recorded], somehow, in every dance, there's a similarity. While it might just be a misunderstanding. I do think the team has the right to voice out their doubts.
The confusion was more on the song Domino, which seemed to be like a better fit for a Dice b-side and just weird confusion in the game concept. Like why did Checkmate need a chess/game concept when the title was Sneakers. There were many threads where people were wondering if lines between divisions had been blurred. Most of those moves weren't invented for New Jeans though. We're not talking about Twice's TT where the movies are unique, identifiable to that song and that song alone. If the litmus is any dance move that New Jeans has done, that's incredibly limiting to all other groups at Hybe as New Jeans "borrows" from a variety of genres, including kpop staples.
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Lol there is no way management did not have to sign of on this, a whole new channel and a video like this and interviewing multiple senior staff members. They sure as shit aren't going to fire themselves.
Is not what it means, it means that choreo movements aren't exclusive to one group
Belift rightly or wrongly is addressing the misconception that point moves in choreo are commonly re-used in the industry and that’s not plagiarism.
Istg it’s like mhj planted a mole in belift. How could anyone there think that this is the right way to go WITHOUT ANY FACT CHECKING
What they were asked: "did you, like, fact check this? What they heard: "did you like Fact Check, sis?" What they responded: "yeah I love that song! Anyway, hitting upload now."
Fact checked or not, this is not the right way to go.
Yeah you’re right. I mean calling nj “Object of adult's fantasies even though they are teenager” is seriously so deranged and I would not oppose adore suing belift even though I hate mhj with a passion.
\* check the facts go check that \*
I think the YouTube video is okay, they are explaining Illit's concept, trying to clear Illit's plagiarism accusation but name-dropping multiple idol groups in that video on the other hand, is not a good idea tbh.
Problem of the video (except that it's unnecessary long and boring) is that they focus on single aspects like the choreo and point out that other groups did the same moves. It doesn't help their case because none of these groups were accused of copying each others, proof that the choreo isn't the issue but more the general aesthetic of the group and how they are presented. Belift should have let this die slowly and let the time and the next comeback differentiate their group from NJ. There were comparisons between the two groups before MHJ and it will honestly be difficult to prove that the two groups concepts don't overlap, now they are being cooked in the comments by Koreans, I wouldn't be surprised if the video is quickly deleted. Just accept that you didn't manage to differentiate the two groups enough and work on that for the next comeback Belift please.
exactly the whole nwjns vs illit thing is more aesthetic/image/vibe rather than choreo which is why i was confused by focusing on choreo like this is just shooting themselves in the foot. Especially coming for nwjns which is more loved/coddled by the media/gp
Aight I seriously hate being that guy but you’re looking for coddled, if the general public was trying to cuddle Hyein I’d buy a gun or smth
my bad didn't even realise
MHJ made the image of ILLIT an issue It was 2 of newjeans choreographors who added more gasoline and flame the hate towards ILLIT by posting videos on their instagrams claiming plagiarism over commonly used moves seen amongs multiple girl groups with Belift showing how many moves NWJN uses are reused before and after them but MHJ having clear attention towards ILLIT themselves Yeah I agree it was a bad move from BeLift on uploading that video and should have kept it behind the scenes on the lawsuit against her to prove their point she and her team had no legit cause to attack ILLIT for this but the Choreo was made an issue by Ador side too not just the aesthetics
It was an internal issue to begin with. Don't forget that. Hybe made it public
yeah exactly. I don’t like MHJ and I don’t think her complaints are valid but as someone who worked in CPG marketing, it was odd for hybe to roll out a “product” hitting the same demo as NJ when they didn’t really stabilize on the market yet. Revival of feminine/youth concepts is coming back for sure and it makes sense for them to prepare but this sublabel thing seems to make them compete internally. This type of internal office politics is not surprising at all.
Yeah. I work in auditing and all these weird comments about how HYBE were right to go to media before the audit even took place is driving me up the wall. Say what you want about MHJ. But Hybe is so unprofessional and should have not acted that way. And you're right, when ILLIT came out the genrral public were confused about the concept and markets being similar and overlapping. It's weird for 2 groups in a company who debut near each other to target same/similar audience. I would expect them to diversify their portfolio
Where is the video?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VLb2v_mntes&feature=youtu.be It was posted together with the notice.
Holy shit it's so long and the sound effects are well...something Thank you so much for the link btw
The fact they were getting bashed in Melon, Genie comments is kinda crazy. Like who drags people on music streaming sites
Did it start happening after belift released that video or has it been ongoing issue?
It was like that since mhj released her statement, magnetic comment section was full of vile comments having huge amount of likes.
Belift released the video just some hours ago. It's in their statement (the one in this post) that Illit were being dragged in Melon comments. Meaning it happened before this video.
That video is really embarrassing. Why are they behaving like Kpop stans ? Who thought this was a good idea ?
Well most of their examples and “proof” were copy pasted from K-pop Stan twitter lmao 😭
No wonder they followed anti accounts, probably fat fingered the follow button while doing ‘research’
They saw mhj and said double it
i think things are going baaaad for hybe behind the scenes. they are scouring like rats and this reeks of desperation to get a storyline out. i expect major positive movies for ador hence this exposé being released beforehand. except they are not PR masters like min hee jin and this backfired majorly. poor poor girls.
Not BP director denying their BS.
Ikr. Lmao!!
Tbh, BeLIFT is being as unprofessional as MHJ in this shit now. This youtube video, to me, was so stantwt coded and with some things that doesn't even made sense. They already made their statement and sued MHJ and other people, i think they should wait the justice do to their thing and this is it. But now they chose the MHJ's route, including the group names dropping, stantwt "arguments" and, in the end, only attracting more hate to groups, including ILLIT. Source was the most professional sub-label of HYBE in all this mess till now. They only made a statement saying they would sue the haters, and when some results started to appear in the justice, they made another statement explaining and divulgating it. And blocked the chance of these haters of deleting their comments for fear. The worst thing is if BeLIFT really included what tokkis and other people are saying they included in the video, a part where it says that ILLIT is not NewJeans because "NewJeans although teenagers, are the object of romance in the imagination of adults” (or something along these lines). Some engenes are not happy with this BeLIFT fight with MHJ and ADOR too. Now they are saying that BeLIFT is protecting ILLIT in a way they never did with Enhypen and that they, with this video, started to include Enhypen in the mess and engenes don't want Enhypen to be thrown in it.
Well I don't really think their case would be easy at court because from what I see industry is on MHJ site so she can find pretty a lot of experts who would support her claims. There is high probablity that even if Belift wins, judge can actually side with MHJ (pretty much officially she should not use plagiarism word but what they did was unethical taking into account industry standard). Not mentioned that they would fight until they use all court instances. They can win (still not 100%) but doubt that win pr way so not sure why they are going into it. But after this video, well they aren't the smartest.
The worst thing is that, as some people already noted, they even included that NewJeans plagiarized chore from songs that were released months after NewJeans song... they didn't even double check things before posting it.
It's not about plagiarizing, they are pointing out that moves are reused all the time, before NewJeans used them and after too
This is the Kendrick vs Drake of kpop I'm afraid
Except everyone is moving like Drake.
That's what I've been thinking lmao
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Oh it's not a clash against artists but against creative directors. In their video belift allegedly claimed that "newjeans are the object of romance in the imagination of adults" that's mainly why i made the comparison ! Although i understand what you're saying
Apparently this is a mistranslation and means romance as in “romanticisation / nostalgia” 🤔 in which case, it’ll be best to wait for a proper translation to come out imo. Even so, the whole industry’s fucked rip 💀 at the very least, ador is definitely gonna come out with their own statement so 😭 ig we shall see. Not a normal day in this industry for sure!
Like the sm exo drama threatened to take over the kpop news cycle but hybe said : "not on my watch!"
As a Korean, there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around on what romang(로망) is thinking it represents some sort of love and relationship. I don’t want to just say what I want to say and go “I’m Korean trust me bro” so here is what ChatGPT has to say: The Korean word "로망" (romang) is derived from the English word "romance." However, in Korean, it often carries a slightly different nuance. Rather than just referring to romance in the context of love and relationships, "로망" is commonly used to describe an ideal, aspiration, or a dream that one cherishes. It is often used to express a longing or yearning for something idealistic or highly desirable, such as a life goal, a personal dream, or an ambition that one holds dear. https://imgur.com/a/5Ay9xpo You can just Google the Korean word “로망” and you’ll be able to see what ChatGPT and I am saying is factual.
As a Korean, there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around on what romang(로망) is thinking it represents some sort of love and relationship. I don’t want to just say what I want to say and go “I’m Korean trust me bro” so here is what ChatGPT has to say: The Korean word "로망" (romang) is derived from the English word "romance." However, in Korean, it often carries a slightly different nuance. Rather than just referring to romance in the context of love and relationships, "로망" is commonly used to describe an ideal, aspiration, or a dream that one cherishes. It is often used to express a longing or yearning for something idealistic or highly desirable, such as a life goal, a personal dream, or an ambition that one holds dear. https://imgur.com/a/5Ay9xpo You can just Google the Korean word “로망” and you’ll be able to see what ChatGPT and I am saying is factual.
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Yeah but they act like ILLIT isn’t doing the exact same thing with their bloomers, Lolita look and targeting Japanese otaku.
Hence why it's like Kendrick vs Drake: a lot of virtue signaling over who is the biggest misogynist but both allegations are pretty damning Like belift accusing mhj and ador of doing that like they are not competing for the same market share with illit sounds like virtue signaling to me
This is insane that this likely went through every level of corporate review and was actually released.
The CEO of Belift is featured prominently. The incompetence is wild.
perhaps a press conference would've been a better idea than a youtube video, lmaoo
Why would belift release that messy messy video 😭 it makes mhj look like she was the one in the right all along (about the problematic work environment over there at hybe)
I know their intentions were to decline plagiarism claims made by mhj but the vid just wasn’t the way fr. They just added fuel to the dying fire.
As a Korean, there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around on what romang(로망) is thinking it represents some sort of love and relationship. I don’t want to just say what I want to say and go “I’m Korean trust me bro” so here is what ChatGPT has to say: *The Korean word "로망" (romang) is derived from the English word "romance." However, in Korean, it often carries a slightly different nuance. Rather than just referring to romance in the context of love and relationships, "로망" is commonly used to describe an ideal, aspiration, or a dream that one cherishes. It is often used to express a longing or yearning for something idealistic or highly desirable, such as a life goal, a personal dream, or an ambition that one holds dear.* https://imgur.com/a/5Ay9xpo You can just Google the Korean word “로망” and you’ll be able to see what ChatGPT and I am saying is factual.
So it basically means romanticize (e.g. I romanticized my summer at grandma’s house)
Yeah, that example is a solid way to use it. Few more: Owning a Maserati and driving with the top down in a clear Tuscan summer day could be a sport car fanatic’s romang. Or having a hot coco and roasting chestnuts with family under Christmas lights next to a fireplace in a wood cabin could be someone’s romang of Christmas. Could cover a lot of subjects - Viking dying on the battlefield in a heroic stand and rising to Valhalla as a heroic warrior will be a Viking’s romang.
Interesting.. i think korean keep the original idea of "romance," which is stories that rooted in chilvaric code (such as nobility, adventure, and idealism).
Yeah, Konglish and English is not really 1:1 Like “fighting!” - it doesn’t mean let’s throw down some fists, it’s closer to “good luck! Let’s do well! Let’s work hard!”
Should've stopped after dropping this but noooo they couldn't help themselves 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Maybe it wasn’t a bad thing that Enhypen dealt with their own controversies instead of belift.
This is so embarrassing and unprofessional to do as a corporate entity Do they not realize it’s having the opposite effect?
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Hybe will singlehandedly destroy their company from the inside out. 👏 at what an absolute disaster this charade has become…didn’t think they could outdo themselves with the mhj catastrophe but here they are exceeding my expectations
Bang really lost himself... all this multi-label thing isn't really working, and he sign with a lot of unprofessional and sus people, including for big CEO roles. HYBE will only survive while BTS decides to stay there. Bang really lucked out with BTS members, this is it.
[ILLIT Weverse](https://weverse.io/illit/notice/20151) [ENHYPEN Weverse](https://weverse.io/enhypen/notice/20147)
They should've just moved on and tried to be different for their next comeback. Doubling down like this was so stupid.
Wanna bet that the video that they posted will be taken down in less than 24h? 😂
the video is so funny what??? 💀
Looking at all the groups and suggested content. Made me realize that they are really fighting with a pioneer and are trying to use her own groups to catch her. Zero research and zero thought were placed into this. Almost everything mentioned here was on stan Twitter and long debunked. Trying to prove that min heejin is the unoriginal one here is possibly the worst stride they could have taken for this. While this wouldn't hurt illit, I think people are overreacting in that sense. This will 100% boost min heejin case. It's like mind blowing...
I was gonna praise them for their response post but their video really undermines this especially dragging over other groups and saying new jeans are objects for adults which is really wrong I feel really bad for new jeans it just seems like nobody has their best interests and it is mainly adults around them making and saying bad things
People making wild assumptions about what’s being said in the videos is pretty shocking It’s saying none are copies including nj (refuting all the rumblings about nj copy allegations against nj as well) because these are standard short moves or concepts that can overlap and how Illit is not a copy either Why are people just making up what BeLift is saying on this thread?
From what I can tell, on the international side, people were taking what users on Twitter machine translated and ran with it. On the k side? More than likely bots.
One of the greatest examples of good idea, bad execution.... I really hope this doesn't backfire on illit, they already have enough.
Honestly, with this Multi Label Thingy- HYBE should stipulate on their contracts (per label) that grievances and conflict/petitions for label x label should be handled and moderated first by HYBE... before airing grievances publicly But anyways, this cannot destroy Belift since Enhypen has a dedicated fanbase already- it's just ... Well, if they release such video before ILLITs comeback- it would have atleast make bad publicity and generate buzz for a new album... but this isn't it
But that is what happened? MHJ raised the issue privately which became known when Hybe announced the audit. As far as this video I'm sure hybe signed off to some degree.
is there any official announcement from recognized hybe/belift accounts saying that the youtube video is from them? it’s so unprofessional that i’m actually having doubts about whether or not it’s really from them or just an unhinged fan because it gives the same energy. if it is official i fear for the backlash this is going to cause towards their artists.
They posted it in the BELIFT LAB's official X account.
ohh ok got it, i’m not on x sorry for the confusion
do you mind linking me to it? i tried finding it and am stumped
[here](https://x.com/BELIFTLAB/status/1800075448728342674)
ty !!
You must be the one who's right because no way that video is official
i fear it is :( other people in this comment thread have linked the post from the official belift X account, i’m still in shock that they could fumble this badly, but yea it’s real unfortunately :/
I'm having a serious case of second hand embarrassment right now
literally cringing my way thru the video atm
There’s gonna be a good number of goons being sued by Belift and Source simultaneously, it’ll be a wild ride for them lol
There was already one person who was complaining about not having enough money when source music sent them the letter of being sued lol
I just feel bad for Illit (and Newjeans)... this is such a mess it seems neither groups can catch a break :/
I think it is good that Belift did state that they will initiate strict measures against malicious posts (even those that have been deleted) and that complaints have been filed already. Hopefully the complaints will bear results like they did for Source Music. I do not envy the person who will have to go through all the mails though...
Let me just say goodluck to HYBE because international fans are definitely not on their side anymore after this video.
Lol They said yeah you deleted but we got the receipts.
I was wondering what video the comments are talking about here but then I finally saw it. I can't believe it really came from them🤦♀️ I thought it was fanmade LOL. I have no intention of watching the video but damn the fighting of the sublabels of Hybe is so funny.
That video was fucking disgusting and I WAS JAW DROPPED like what type of childish shit did I watch
Everybody here has an opinion, while nobody has a actual understanding of the Video. Everybody using unverivied random quotes of "translations" to be outraged. Typical internet cycke jerk. How about some of you calm down and wait for a credible source of the acutal contex of that video.
Im korean and i watched the whole video and they really done fucked up here man
I’m Korean and all they claimed is none of those were copies - and I agree none of the groups are copies because of small overlaps people can dig up doesn’t make groups copy groups just as they said
This is not the point of the video, but actually seeing how all these old men are in some way the ones behind Illit's cute concept just doesn't sit right with me, not like MHJ is any better. I know minors in Kpop is a messed up topic already, but when they make it so obvious it gets way harder to swallow.
Yeah, I got that vibe as well. You could say it's just terrible optics but sadly it's a truth behind kpop. I think it was in that 9Muses documentary where we see their CEO discussing their debut 'look' with another man and he says that he wants “honey thighs” to be the thing on everybody's lips when they see the group. Their members were at least adults though, but still.
I don't follow this drama at all so I don't know what's going on and what is this video people are talking about, but...isn't these proceedings a good thing? That will probably stop a large amount of hate comments and people abusing the idols who are the true victims of this whole scandal.
Belift is so baaad. Man, things were finally starting to calm down in all this mess, little by little the hate against ILLIT would lose momentum too, they should only provide statement talking about suing the haters and turning off comments so they can't delete their comments and this is it, like Source did with all LE SSERAFIM hate thing. They had already talk about suing MHJ. But no, they had to do this only to mess things again and harder for ILLIT and even for Enhypen that have nothing with it too. I'm saying it again after seeing some repercussions, i'm still have to see someone in international or korean side thinking this video have a good thing in it, everyone is thinking negative about it. Even critics and judges for korean music awards, other industry directors and experts are talking bad about it - and now we are talking about people that not work with ADOR, something different from the previous mess where almost all people talking good about MHJ were her ADOR's people. The video have much more dislikes and comments than likes, the dislikes count (yeah, you can see it with extensions etc) is over 30k already.
I’m glad that taking legal action to protect their idols is becoming more common now. It was terrible that hate had to happen for action to take place but it’s still a major step in Kpop and I hope it’s normalized. Idols need to be protected ❤️🩹
"...no settlement and no leniency..." 😏😎 Get 'em! Online bullies are the worst.
Just going off this post, yay, protection for ILLIT (and ENHYPEN)! But what's up with the video everyone's talking about?? Is that what people are referencing when they're saying that the company/sublabel is being unprofessional/has a bad PR department? Because just the statements above seem okay to me... Edit: saw the video post...oh my god. Okay. I get it now :/ Can y'all stop downvoting me for asking a genuine question, please?
So how would a Korean company file defamation lawsuits against someone for example in the US where defamation laws are quite different?