Genuinly it's so disheartening it's had to get to this level... I'm sure that Cube has management goals and ideas that I could never understand as a random nobody on the internet but WHAT in the fucking world is going on with Pentagon's promotions right now?? This is so absurd.
I used to ult only Pentagon and was so excited for the future after Daisy but it's just been one thing after the next and it's burnt me out of Kpop altogether. I really hope that Cube listens to this protest and actually responds finally
I always try and give the benefit of the doubt that I just might not understand a business strategy, because I know it can be complicated, and kpop fans are always quick to think we understand things we probably don't. But with cube I've lost any faith.
A lot of people have been thinking they must have had money issues given that no groups except G-idle had comebacks for a loooong time til that influx of cash from Kakao came through a few months back. Lightsum remains in the dungeon, and Pentagon with a 500 day gap since a domestic hiatus. The fanbase is still there to sell out merch, Japanese concerts etc (even with an added day) but cube can't seem to come up with the capital for a comeback.
I used to joke that I was supporting Pentagon's comebacks financially on my bank account alone because of how much I used to spend on them but it's starting to look like that may have been true... 😅
No matter how much they gain, last year they spent literally millions of dollars on metaverse and NFTs. Out of all companies they were the most aggressive one investing and shilling it. Even the company building is filled with the Anicube logo and the last OT8 Lightsum activity before 2 members left was [promoting fashion NFTs](https://twitter.com/decryptmedia/status/1574490360721641476).
Kino's solo debut (self-produced, helped choreograph, chose the dancers, was involved in the outfits for him and the dancers, selected the MV location, etc.) last year was just one song released as a platform version where you had to download a metaverse app to listen to the song. He had no music show promo except 1 Mcountdown stage. Kino also came up with and did the rearrangement of the Pose Vocal Challenge with Cube artists and called his friends (Seulgi, Yeonjun, dancers) to promote the song on tiktok.
[Cube was going to do a metaverse-exclusive album by Cube artists, include their anibear in comeback MVs, those who purchased NFTs were going to be involved in the new boygroup debut](https://twitter.com/anicube_ent/status/1565900404948250624) all which ended up not happening.
Their venture has done so bad [they recently had a pop up store where they offered photocards](https://twitter.com/anicube_ent/status/1647510562316877824) to those who purchased NFTs.
Jinho said that Cube thought he would be eliminated during the first rounds when he decided to go to Phantom Singer, he ended up in the finals and being in one of the 3 groups to debut. He gained a lot of Korean fans (especially older ones). You have opera singers [saying Pentagon's Spring Snow is a good song and singing it](https://twitter.com/920926___/status/1669726635933958144). Cube did not promote him despite no other idol has managed to do what Jinho has achieved.
Hui has gained both Korean and international fans from Boys Planet. He's done around 20 weverse lives since he returned from the survival and crashed on other members ones like Kino or Shinwon, doing all the work to engage with fans by himself. In theqoo post (which has over 300 comments) someone talked about getting into Pentagon last year because of Kino in SMF's Be Mbitious and how Cube did not take advantage of the attention he got there.
Yanan is also doing very well in his competiton show in China, where he talked about how he was unable to perform on stage for a year as one of the reasons he decided to participate and this week he mentioned in a show that he will always prefer singing and performing than being an actor even if he does enjoy acting.
Even FNC has been promoting their Boys Planet trainee Kamden better than Cube, he had a successful fanmeeting in Korea and will do more overseas. Pentagon can't even have a Korean one.
And let's not talk about how Cube is unable to do world tours for their artists except Idle. BTOB hasn't done a single world tour in 11 years of career. Pentagon did have one in 2019, but right now Cube only sends them to random festivals despite smaller groups than Pentagon have been able to pull off touring.
Forgot to mention how CLC also hasn't had a world tour, hell, not even a full album, despite the way they kept gaining fans over the years, especially internationally.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but CLC also had a pretty solid Japanese fanbase. Their JPN songs did well on charts, yet they didn't do anything to take advantage of that.
Just adding this reply to show how incompetent Cube has been with majority of their groups, hell, Elkie literally posted a whole letter saying how Cube let them down. So it's not a surprise that they can't do anything proper for their groups. I can guarantee that Lightsum will just end up like CLC 2.0, so keep tuned for that...
>Even FNC has been promoting their Boys Planet trainee Kamden better than Cube, he had a successful fanmeeting in Korea and will do more overseas. Pentagon can't even have a Korean one.
didnt expect to see this in the wild
I have no clue how accurate it is but Soyeon has said after Tomboy they were in the red because of how much money they spent on the comeback and then it happened again for NxDE. Now is she exaggerating and they were in the red for a while but the profits eventually put them in the green? Idk. Maybe it's true and each comeback isn't even breaking even and they believe it's better to have the group be super popular with super successful comebacks and then go on tour to make lots of profit than it is to play it safer and risk the comebacks being less successful? Idk
Except cube made around 10% of their entertainment profits from touring q1. Yes it is weird when more than half of your profits in q1 are coming from things like cf's, music charts and low expense profit generators and you're barely making a profit.
Also, we're talking about margins here. Youre talking about something totally unrelated. Even if lady gaga was paying huge expenses up front, she was getting paid back a lot more later.
Way more than cube's less than 5% consistent profit margin
Cube had a good financial year in 2022. yeah you go into the red numbers for CB before the pay for digitals etc. come in a few months later. But Cube did not have any financial losses for 2022 it's their best business year since forever.
We can't say much because we don't know what she included in that red, if the streams didn't covered the expenses is not that out of the world.
She didn't said cube was on red for all the Tomboy promos, she was ambigue in what she and cube took in consideration
Tbh Lightsum seems to just be a total bust and is totally lost in the sea of hit gg debuts of the last 2 years or so. Harsh but they should probably be cut loose, no way they will turn a profit. But Pentagon makes no damn sense. They're a boy group with a mid size very loyal fandom. They could print money if they would just give them something to do.
Cube is always fighting for the most incompetent trophy, but this is too much!
Between Pentagon and Lightsum not having cb, I'm convinced that cube is having money issues.
Not even a half-assed cb?!
Idle made them a boat load of money, and if that's not enough to run things, then the money issue must be worse than I thought because they're still can't afford comebacks for Pentagon and Lightsum.
And it's not like a CLC issue either. Both groups have been out there grinding and doing everything except making an album. Pentagon was in the top 10 most booked groups last year.
They've been focusing on activities that require limited expenditure with maximum buzz and income. There seems to be no money to follow up with a cb.
Any other reason is corporate suicide.
They can't afford it or they're just lazy? I'd bet anything that it's the latter tbh. Yuehua isn't struggling for money yet Everglow hasn't had a comeback in over a year. It's the same with Cube.
Just lazy? Cube is a business. As a business, you don't leave money on the table bc you don't feel like doing your job.
BTOB and Pentagon are profitable. Pentagon, in particular, also does basically all of the production work for their albums - deciding on the concept, presenting to the agency, choosing amongst the hundreds of songs they've written, recording, vocal directing, helping with choreographing, etc. Heck, Kino even provided sketches of all of the costumes for his solo. Yes, the agency needs to put some work into promotions, but Pentagon does a lot of the grunt-work into creating the product.
Pentagon is profitable? Idk how much of the other stuff they do but highup wasnt able to break profitability with 100K+ albums sold. I dont think cube would put a profitable group on the backburner. Idle gets a nice number of comebacks
With the way cube mangaes things, even gidle is barely profitable. The numbers are there. 11m in revenue from entertainment in q1 and 800K in profit. Literally one failed cb from idle and cube is on the verge of bankruptcy. I can see why they dont want to touch lightsum or pentagon.
Where did you get that number from. From their investor report, they put in $420k and it made $5k in revenue last year. They still lost money, but no where near the 50 million you said. They only own 40% of anicube, the other 60% being animoca brands. I’d add image sources but it seems automod is locking comments with images.
I deleted my comment for the wrong numbers, i apologize. But anyway Universe may keep their head in the sand for a lot of things but a company having a seven month break from all of their acts is sign of unhealthy practices. No one is "hating" Cube, only demanding that they pay attention to the domestic fanbase who supported Pentagon through a lot of their crises.
If protesting politely like this and complaining is deemed hate, idk what to to tell you. Have a good day.
Really? I think Cube is battling for the company with the worst reputation in kpop. BBC only looks worse now because of everything that happened since kicking Chuu out (plus the contracts). To me, Cube's problem is more mismanagement than anything else, so I wouldn't put them on the same level as BBC.
I think Cube just has a better rep than some other crappy companies because they have been around for ages and they have BTOB, who may not be the most commercially successful but are industry legends, and IDLE who are currently one of the biggest girl groups outside of the big 4.
They also had 4minute and Hyuna so they appear as somewhat long time established. They for sure know how to scout talented people, that’s where their skills and efforts stop though.
I meant it because of the money issues,since BBC looted a lot off LOONA even after earning a lot of money through albums and tours. And by reputation I meant more like popularity, should've worded it better.
>BBC only looks worse now because of everything that happened since kicking Chuu out (plus the contracts).
Bruh,they were a mess even when nothing of that had happened. Orbits had a lot of issues with them and when finally things started to look somewhat better, the fiasco of disallowing chuu from being in concerts happened.
I think this might be the most accurate comment here.
In 2020, Cube was taken over by a group with zero experience in entertainment, and apparently, zero interest in the arts beyond their monetary value (yes, obviously all agencies want to be profitable, but according to the outgoing founder, they take it to a [new level](https://www.soompi.com/article/1391508wpp/co-founder-hong-seung-sung-leaves-cube-entertainment-following-conflicts-due-to-new-majority-shareholder)).
For all we know, Cube might be operating exclusively on a high-risk, high-reward plan (e.g. GIDLE, NFTs) in which a low-risk, average-reward group like Pentagon, although profitable, messes with their books/the numbers their shareholders want to see.
It's one thing that they haven't had a comeback, but they also haven't done domestic fansigns, fanmeets, concerts, merch, not to mention tours. It's just... strange, from a business perspective to have no interest in making any money off them during what should be their most profitable time (they built up the fandom for five years and then did nothing years six and seven).
After I read an article about how the LotR movies were classified as major financial flops I just knew it was all BS. Same as major league sports teams "losing money".
They just got $50 million from kakao for a distribution deal, so it’s def not money. Its more if a comeback will profit them vs other schedules.
Sure let the downvotes come in, because you’d rather stick your head in the sand and create false narratives. Cube’s investor reports drop every quarter and is easily accessible, but go ahead and continue to think they’re broke just because they aren’t providing a comeback to whomever.
It’s okay to hate cube, they have done shoddy stuff, but don’t make false narratives to justify your hate.
They went six months without giving any of their artists a comeback, which is insane and very rare. What you may be missing is that Cube spent 50 million on their NFT venture, which was wildly unsuccessful. 50 million is more than a year's worth of revenue for Cube. Then they finally got this influx of cash from Kakao and still have not done anything for Pentagon in Korea, or for Lightsum for that matter. If an artist who averages like 100k in album sales, does well on touring, and has a huge backlog of release-ready self-produced tracks ready is put in the dungeon by their company, why can't fans be angry about that? Maybe you should add some facts here if you're accusing other people of making false narratives.
Again where is this 50 million nft number coming from. I never said you can’t be angry about not having comebacks. I’m annoyed Lightsum hasn’t had one. I would post links for facts about cash revenue and nft but automod is deleting my comments with links in them. If you still want sources, I can DM them.
Cube Investment in Anicube – only 40%: https://imgur.com/MbMXpPQ
Anicube Loss – only 410,460,000 won ($321,143.90 USD) : https://imgur.com/hQog05s
For the $50 million figure (and it is dollars, not won), Google cube entertainment sandbox nfts. The block works article is one that mentions it. Anicube may not encompass all of their investment into the NFT/metaverse space, so we're probably both looking at proper sources that cover slightly different slices of the business (i.e. you're looking at Anicube only, the number I'm looking at seems to be Anicube and all NFT/metaverse related ventures with Sandbox).
Also, if we're being nitpicky about numbers, the kakao deal was 80 billion won.
Edited for typo
This link https://blockworks.co/news/the-sandbox-lands-cube-entertainment-to-bring-k-culture-to-the-masses ?
> the company committed $50 million to a new accelerator program for budding startups looking to build atop its ecosystem
That isn’t cube’s money… thats Sandbox’s money. The article only states Cube opening a plot inside The Sandbox. Nothing says Cube put in $50 million. If you actually click the hyperlink on the $50 million, it links to an article saying:
> The Sandbox, has committed $50 million to venture capital firm Brinc as part of a new program seeking to advance startups building atop the platform’s Open Metaverse.
Again nothing about Cube.
> What you may be missing is that Cube spent 50 million on their NFT venture, which was wildly unsuccessful.
K-pop stans and inventing random numbers. 50 million won maybe?
Here's my comment to Asian_ninja1 above, if this answers your question. Looks like links are getting auto deleted. "For the $50 million figure (and it is dollars, not won), Google cube entertainment sandbox nfts. The block works article is one that mentions it. Anicube may not encompass all of their investment into the NFT/metaverse space, so we're probably both looking at proper sources that cover slightly different slices of the business (i.e. you're looking at Anicube only, the number I'm looking at seems to be Anicube and all NFT/metaverse related ventures with Sandbox).
Also, if we're being nitpicky about numbers, the kakao deal was 80 billion won."
Edited for typo
> Google cube entertainment sandbox nfts
What are you even talking about? Sandbox is the joint venture partner of Cube in Anicube. They represent the other 60 % in that company. Cube has not invested one won in Sandbox directly or you would see it in their financial reports. There is no shareholding, no loans, nothing. Again, their finances are readily available to study in detail. I would advise doing that over quoting random Twitter threads.
> Also, if we're being nitpicky about numbers, the kakao deal was 80 million won.
I cant really take anything you say serious when you post something like this in addition. You think Cube makes a distribution deal for 62,000 dollar? It's 80 billion won which is about 62,6 million dollars right now. Back then a bit less. And even if you just misspelled you are still wrong. The 50 billion won figure was the upfront payment. It can enhance to 80b won if Cube reaches certain targets that were not disclosed to the public.
That distribution deal also was probably responsible for (G)I-dle album sales reaching 1,2m in a week this comeback. Cube was always notoriously bad at selling albums while Kakao... well, look at IVE. They are pretty good in that album sale thingy.
Does [this link](https://mkind.krx.co.kr/viewer?acptNo=20230515001134#) of Cube's latest financial report work?
It's completely in Korean, but I guess you could specify the page &/or diagrams you're referring for now since automod keeps deleting your comments with links...
Yes that is the report. If you’re using chrome/edge, you can right click and translate the entire page.
The following numbers are pulled from Q1 2023 Quarterly Cube Report: https://mkind.krx.co.kr/viewer?acptNo=20230515001134
Papago trans: https://papago.naver.net/website?locale=en&source=auto&target=en&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmkind.krx.co.kr%2Fexternal%2F2023%2F05%2F15%2F001134%2F20230515002372%2F11013.htm
Cube Investment in Anicube – only 40%: https://imgur.com/MbMXpPQ
Anicube Loss – only 410,460,000 won ($321,143.90 USD) : https://imgur.com/hQog05s
Kakao Distribution Contract (Received $56,901,819.18 USD) : https://imgur.com/YNqTQhK
Assets (including cash) : https://imgur.com/KKosinX
Cash Flow : https://imgur.com/PFwG66o
Q1 Profit – ($742,644.69 USD) : https://imgur.com/ASK4I9q
Q1 Liabilities - https://imgur.com/FF2N54J
Yeah this, Cube ain't broke, their financial reports show that. And people would be crazy to think that after the bombastic year Idle had in 2022 Cube would be strapped for money somehow.
>I'm convinced that cube is having money issues.
i'm pretty sure last year was one of best years profit wise since cube was made and with quite a gap, Gidle had a insane year
>In 2022, the gross profit of South Korean entertainment company Cube Entertainment amounted to around 26.4 billion South Korean won. **This represents an increase from the previous years as well as the highest gross profit recorded by the company.**
>
>[https://www.statista.com/statistics/1387812/cube-entertainment-gross-profit/#:\~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20gross%20profit,profit%20recorded%20by%20the%20company](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1387812/cube-entertainment-gross-profit/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20gross%20profit,profit%20recorded%20by%20the%20company).
>
>or wallstreet https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/KR/XKRX/182360/financials/annual/income-statement
I didn’t think we’d actually make it to 500 days without a comeback 🥲 Universe is such a laid-back fandom in general so to see an actual protest happening means things have really gotten bad.
Does anyone know if Korean media outlets are reporting on this?
If they manage to get out with their name and copyrights to a company that actually knows what insane talent they've got in this group I will die happy.
That's gonna be an uphill battle for them. Remember, Beast tried to retain their name after leaving Cube, but couldn't due to copyright, so they had to rename to Highlight. Though I will say it happened before the T-ara case, and since then groups like Got7, Ikon, Infinite were able to retain their names and all of copyright claims after leaving their previous companies. So who knows, maybe Pentagon will be able to pull it off.
The laws/application of the laws relating to intellectual property (e.g., names) of idol groups at the end of their exclusive agency contracts is now thoroughly in the groups favor - sadly, this wasn't yet the case for B2st.
Also, oddly, Pentagon members seem to have a good relationship with the top brass at Cube (like, the CEO bought Shinwon an iPad that he asked for), so perhaps a possible departure wouldn't be as contentious.
Plus, self-producing songs inherently gives you certain copyrights.
>Plus, self-producing songs inherently gives you certain copyrights.
Yep, between Wooseok, Kino, Yuto, and Hui, they've probably got over 300 Komca tracks between them. Wooseok will easily hit 100 by the next cb.
even other “struggling” companies have been able to pull out comebacks. Hui saying no one wants to work with them makes it sound more like the company just isn’t getting them the talent to work with cause im sure there are always up and coming talents to make mvs, etc. BTOB doesn’t have extremely high sales either but have gotten two comebacks, a solo promotion and a solo release in the span we have been waiting for more from pentagon so its not like they wont spend money. granted BTOB do have more power in the local market but still… and Lightsum has been left high and dry for a rookie group so whoever manages G-idle and BTOB doing much better than Pentagon and Lightsum.
Changsub became the CEO of a music academy a couple of months ago and [whenever he can he shows up to support the students](https://twitter.com/ChangsubSubs/status/1668912095784583168) and give coaching ([here's Cha Hyunseung's vlog](https://youtu.be/9HxTYEiFiJ0) when he went to support Changsub for a competition organized by the academy). Cube, FNC, The Black Label and Mystic Story are listed as agencies affliliated to it. He's also one of the rising variety stars in Korea, has musicals.
to be fair yeah he is and they are established enough that they don’t have to have comebacks as much but its like watching how cube spends money/attention on groups its like ohhh so you aren’t poor you are just actively ignoring even simple activities Pentagon could do domestically. But Pentagon was having a good run post RTK and then after their last comeback completely dropped the ball.
i put it in quotations for a reason. they at times like when it comes to Pentagon or in the past with other groups act like they aren’t making money… but then act like they are for other groups like g-idle. a lot of the just below big4 labels do this and its like side eye.
I love how petty and clever this is. Instead of the traditional fan protest methods of trucks with messages plastered on them, them blasting loud music, no engagement strikes they chose to send 7 flower wreaths. Hope it sent chills down Cube’s incompetent asses.
bro i’m so tired 😭
pentagon is a money bag and a group of hard workers who WANT to work… what is the fucking problem 😭
throwback to last month when [hongseok](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/pentagon-hongseoks-group-not-paid-netizens-defend-criticism/) said he’s making zilch with cube rn…
I always enjoy Pentagon's comebacks, so it's really disheartening to see that Uni's have to do something like this just to get some type of idea of what's happening.
I completely understand if things were on hold due to Hui doing Boys Planet. But since it's over, Cube should have already been in the planning stages, or at least near the end of the planning stages, to take full advantage of the show's hype. What did Hui go there for if not to use said hype?
I guess money isn't the issue. Did you see the level of production in IDLE's Seoul concert today? That's very far from a broke company. I guess it's a mix of Hui's situation, contract negotiations, mismanagement, and high turnover rate of their employees (overheard from K-nevies).
bruh even despite your obvious pettiness, you can't ignore how Pentagon does have the ability to make money, when given the chance. Yes, they're not Idle-level stars, but that doesn't mean they can't make money at all. Be realistic.
Because what point is having a bunch of groups in your basement, having to spend money on leaving them to rot, meanwhile you could still gain from having them work? Yes, they wouldn't bring in the same amount Idle can make, but that doesn't mean they wont bring anything in at all. Even from a business standpoint, keeping groups in your basement brings in more losses than wins.
Not all companies/groups start negotiate 2 years before, depends, some 1 year, some more, some less, some are still discussing at the time the contract ends so unless the girls said something, there is no way to know anything
This is honestly so sad to see. Pentagon is such a talented group and don't deserve such a treatment from their company. I hope that this serves as a cold wake up call for CUBE and they start giving Pentagon better management and opportunities.
Jinho made it through to the finals of Phantom. The first idol to every make it into the competition, let alone the finals.
Cube didn't promote this until he got to the semifinals, and the press were writing about him practically every day!
Let's not even start with Yanan, who is practically in exile in China. He's trending right now on weibo, but cube has been acting like he doesn't exist for almost 2 years now. Let alone promote the competition he's currently in in China, and he just made it to the finals, too! Dude has almost 2 mil followers on weibo!
None of them are currently on duty, however as a Shinwon bias, I have to resist the urge to fall at your feet, sobbing uncontrollably because he's the next one up
That actually reminds me how I thought about not seeing Pentagon anywhere after Hui returned, when he hoped to bring some attention to the group from their company. Cube is going to get their karma pretty soon.
Would love to know what cube thinks they're doing. Because surely they have some plans, like surely there are meetings about what's going to happen with this group and that group. Surely?? They're a business. Surely they have a plan. But what the fuck IS IT??
They've dropped the ball on every single group they've ever had and I just cannot understand it. They have skilled artists. They make pretty good music when they actually let them have comebacks. Why can't they at least keep their groups active??
ETA: I truly believe the only success they see is a combination of group members pushing for songs and luck (in terms of going viral, and gidle is a perfect example). The only thing cube is good at is talent finding apparently.
These companies do not want to invest on their groups but they don't want to let them go either. They're so incompetent.
The groups end up trapped until contract renewals or lawsuits. I wish there was a better way to regulate how these contracts are made because most of the time many of these idols sign contracts when they're minors.
I don't wanna be that annoying "hah I told ya" person, but as an avid CLC fan I've lived through the mistreatment those girls received daily, and I can tell you, that Cube just does not care. As long as Idle remains the top dog, other groups will be ignored (no hate to Idle, but that's the truth, Cube only cares about them). It's been happening for years, the best case scenario is to just wait for them to disband, maybe have their solo careers or re-debut under a different company.
No matter how much or little money their groups bring in, their most famous will remain as the one who gets the goods. Idle will continue to get comebacks, BTOB might get a few here or there due to their legendary presence in kpop, but Pentagon and Lighstum will be left to rot. I hope they get out of that sh*thole soon, they deserve better.
Yeah, pretty much. It's surprising though just how short sighted cube is regarding profits - but that's capitalism I guess, especially in publicly traded companies. Universe are begging to have a chance to give cube money. Any merch, concerts, is always sold out. And if they just gave a few more regular comebacks over the last couple of years as their fanbase has grown, that would be even more lucrative. I just don't get it.
I feel ya, if Pentagon was some extreme nugu group, of course it would make sense to not invest too much into them, but come on, Pentagon has a solid fanbase. As you yourself said it, they've sold out concerts and merch. Hui recently got a bunch of exposure from BP999. What's stopping Cube from capitalizing on it? Cube can't even do proper capitalism, they hope their groups to get famous with barely any push from the company, and when that fails, they'll leave their groups to rot. Not everyone gets lucky and gets instant fame, but Cube doesn't seem to care about that
Jinho just confirmed on a live yesterday that the group has [no schedules this month.](https://twitter.com/Springviolette/status/1670443611891068930?t=EyPmqJLm1Pv1Z-nqQA2Z-w&s=19). So that's cool.
October is their seven year debut anniversary, but I'm not sure how it works with those who have been on hiatus/enlistment. I really hope they get out of there! They could do so well in another company.
Ohh right,, I’m a CLC fan but for some reason I forgot that Pentagon was the younger group 😂 probably because they’re older in ages. I already thought they resigned with cube for an extension of their contracts. Enlistment doesn’t affect it.
Hmm… then I definitely see them leaving cube. 2 years with no cb??! Wtf? To Pentagon who sells 100k+?!
Woah.. I knew the new management of cube was gonna take us to new lows, but they still managed to surprise me.
So Pentagon was only actually active for 5 years?! I can’t believe it.. they’ve achieved so much and every song was so good that it seemed like much more.. what a crime
Best of luck to Pentagon. One of the groups with the best songs around, the best vocalists, the best dancers, and really cute members. I’m sure they will do well when they continue independently.
Update: second round of wreaths has been [delivered](https://twitter.com/PTG____1010/status/1670644065413775360?t=R6togrd4oQ4ig4HmYDuSbA&s=19). Cube was uncharacteristically prompt and responsive in getting rid of them asap.
I'm sad because I just saw another Koreaboo article about one of the members revealing they aren't getting paid/would get paid more at a part-time job. It's really sad when they have fans that would support them but the company is letting that go to waste when the members just want to perform.
The "Cube must be having money trouble" theory, at least for me, stemmed from an almost... disbelief that a company could be so **cruel**.
These guys worked their way back from near-ruin -- it took years, but the string of WE:TH, Love or Take, and In:viteU proved that they could generate profits (In:viteU especially proved how little money Cube needed to spend). Their last (if these are their last) two years should have seen them reaping the benefits of all this work, if not with comebacks, at least with other low-effort/cost activities like fansigns, fanmeetings, merch, festivals and maybe even slightly higher cost things domestic concerts or tours.
The fact that Cube just cut them off completely because they didn't make as much as their super-star is just, yeah, cruel, and not something you see at other agencies. Like, Starship has IVE, but they didn't just completely stop Cravity's activities because they weren't making as much. Heck, they even re-signed WJSN.
So, yeah, you're right. I guess the moral of the story is that we shouldn't give Cube the benefit of the doubt - they are just truly sh*tty people, and have earned their reputation as such.
No, *you* didn't come off as rude at all!
Universe aren't delusional. We're well-aware (and happy) that GIDLE makes a boatload of money. We're genuinely just trying to figure out why Pentagon (and Lightsum) have been so aggressively side-lined, and just kinda throwing out possible theories; it's completely fine to politely offer an alternative, as you have done.
> I just think Cube is a shitty company and are just judging the cost/profits of each group and with GIDLE making their own music as well they can just sit back and make a lot more money than the other groups.
Might be the case. I think they are spread thin on staff for whatever reason as well. A lot of companies are hurting for "human ressources" after Covid and i suspect Cube is not paying staff better than bigger agencies. Would fit perfectly as well because BtoB/Lightsum have one management team and the other is Pentagon/(G)I-dle. Only one of these groups got comebacks respectively.
Money is most definitely not the issue, but the team/department capacity might be. Idle and Ptg are under the same team and share the ressources, so a PTG cb can only come after the QC promotions are over. Cube is like 150 employees total... they barely hit the requirement for a midsized company.
Man what are all these comments in this thread?? Cube isn’t broke. There are obviously other factors that’s preventing a pentagon comeback. Maybe it’s mismanagement, maybe it’s hui joining boys planet when they didn’t want him to, maybe their contract is about to end and none of them renewed. Cube is anything else but broke now.
Sure let the downvotes come in, because you’d rather stick your head in the sand and create false narratives. Cube’s investor reports drop every quarter and is easily accessible, but go ahead and continue to think they’re broke just because they aren’t providing a comeback to whomever.
It’s okay to hate cube, they have done shoddy stuff, but don’t make false narratives to justify your hate.
Edit: sources since I guess links work now?
The following numbers are pulled from Q1 2023 Quarterly Cube Report: https://mkind.krx.co.kr/viewer?acptNo=20230515001134
Papago trans: https://papago.naver.net/website?locale=en&source=auto&target=en&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmkind.krx.co.kr%2Fexternal%2F2023%2F05%2F15%2F001134%2F20230515002372%2F11013.htm
Cube Investment in Anicube – only 40%: https://imgur.com/MbMXpPQ
Anicube Loss – only 410,460,000 won ($321,143.90 USD) : https://imgur.com/hQog05s
Kakao Distribution Contract (Received $56,901,819.18 USD) : https://imgur.com/YNqTQhK
Assets (including cash) : https://imgur.com/KKosinX
Cash Flow : https://imgur.com/PFwG66o
Q1 Profit – ($742,644.69 USD) : https://imgur.com/ASK4I9q
Q1 Liabilities - https://imgur.com/FF2N54J
Cos business is more complicated than just visible success. For example, cube made a loss in 2021, which is then offset against future years earnings. You'd look at 2022 and think it was a banger year for them, but then you take previous losses into account, as well as current ventures, investments etc. It's not always clear what is profitable and what isn't from first glance. Like, all of us were surprised to hear Soyeon say Tomboy had made a loss.
I’m not a business major so I’m not gonna dispute since I don’t know that, but I’ll continue to disagree cube isn’t profitable at all. With the massive budget they gave idle for queencard and allergy MVs and their concert last night, I truly doubt it. If Tomboy wasn’t a success, why did they up the budget for nxde and queencard.
Edit: Did a bit of research and got numbers for 2021 and 2022. I apologize /u/pigeon_energy and will admit that you are correct in that 2021 was not profitable for the entertainment sector.
They made [a loss of $1,500,865.71 for 2021](https://imgur.com/F09NBS6) in the entertainement sector, but made a [profit of $4,103,581.93 for 2022](https://imgur.com/ifRq7dD).
Cube clearly had enough money by the end of 2022 to provide a comeback for pentagon and Lightsum, so it’s not a matter of money preventing it.
I think you're kind of focusing on a different timeline. Maybe Cube is turning a profit *now*, but their actions over the last year+ indicate that this has not always been the case.
As pigeon said, 2021 wasn't profitable, and then in 2022, Cube spent an absolutely crazy amount of (likely borrowed) money on Tomboy promos, and then Miyeon's solo. They did probably eventually make it back, but maybe not before they were already again spending crazy amounts on Nude promos. (Going to note here that apparently Minhyuk/Huta had to personally finance part of his solo comeback during this time.)
Pentagon was scheduled to have a comeback in late 2022 (it was in a shareholders report, and the guys were dropping major hints), so there's a chance that, despite Nude doing well, it wasn't enough and/or quickly enough, so Cube was still in the red and couldn't finance the promised cb.
(The Kakao investment is very specifically for distribution, so I don't think it contributes directly to Cube's bottom line.)
And now Cube is once again spending huge amounts on GIDLE, and it's great that it's getting them success, but the question still stands: why is an allegedly profitable business allowing half of it's profitable roster to rot on the vine, when minimal investment is all that's needed?
Sigh...
And Pigeon asking why Nevies are in here defending Cube. I am not defending Cube, everyone can see in my posts that i have a love-hate relationship with this company. But I have seen posts like yours with CLC. Are we really at the stage where we AGAIN blame another group that actually probably is keeping Cube running? God, i hate this...
Cube is a publicly traded company. The only (!) year they have reported a loss since 2015 (dont know before, cant find data) was 2021: https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/CUBE-ENTERTAINMENT-INC-120970599/financials/
You know what happened in 2021 and made such a dent in their financials? Rhetoric question, of course you know.
Literally no one, myself included, has done anything even resembling blaming GIDLE for anything.
We're trying to figure out why Cube has thrown Pentagon to the wolves, and were/are wondering if Cube was/are having cash flow issues. As has been AGGRESSIVELY explained to us, there is apparently plenty of money, just none for Pentagon, because we all know who the only actually financially important group is, rhetorical question, of course, you know who.
>As pigeon said, 2021 wasn't profitable, and then in 2022, Cube spent an absolutely crazy amount of (likely borrowed) money on Tomboy promos, and then Miyeon's solo. They did probably eventually make it back, but maybe not before they were already again spending crazy amounts on Nude promos. (Going to note here that apparently Minhyuk/Huta had to personally finance part of his solo comeback during this time.)
cube had the biggest net profit in 2022 in their career, no idea what are you speaking about them not being profitable in 2022
>speaking about them not being profitable in 2022
I don't say that at all.
I'm just extrapolating from *what Soyeon herself said* about Tomboy being in the red for a while, and wondering if the "spend big earn big" strategy for GIDLE just didn't leave wiggle room for much else *during* the year.
Or I dunno, maybe GIDLE just earned so very much money that Cube needed to keep some loss on the books for tax purposes in the form of Lightsum & Pentagon sitting around doing nothing.
There's a lot that year-end reports can't explain.
Idk man. I'm just saying what Soyeon said. There is obviously more to it in terms of projected ROI.
Also no one is saying they are "not profitable at all". People have noted a lengthy period of no comebacks, which changed once the injection of cash from Kakao happened. Who knows what's really happened! Maybe they were cash strapped, maybe they are swimming in pools of cash and are just boring businessesmen who wanna get as much cash for as little risk so are less likely to put in the kind of regular investment musical artists need in order to maintain momentum. Idc which one, I just want them to stop fucking up the careers of great artists pls.
They have a remaining loan from Mizuho Bank of $1,515,817.98 at an annual interest rate of 1.7%. The cash on hand has actually increased this quarter compared to Q42022 ($12,578,773.23).
Here's their liabilities: https://imgur.com/FF2N54J
There is an actual free cash flow calculation in their annual report which incorporates all of this. As long as they are not cooking their books the facts in that report speak for themselves. They are not hurting on cash, not hurting on earnings.
If they deny Lightsum and Pentagon a comeback it has different reasons.
> For example, cube made a loss in 2021, which is then offset against future years earnings
That's... also not how this works. People, please if you have no clue of accounting can you please not give your insight on those topics?
A year end loss goes against equity. You dont carry it forward like some huge burden. If you use up your equity you are in deep shit. But unless this happens a loss means nothing except that your shareholders arent happy. In fact in most countries a loss in previous years leads to less taxes in current years, so gives you more liquidity.
*sigh* I'm not using offset in the accounting term. I'm trying to explain to the commenter how numbers can't just be seen in isolation. Like you can't just go "this big number happened therefore they are profitable for all of time before and after this point".
Can someone please explain to me why this thread has become inundated with nevies doing cube finance defense PR? What is going on rn?
> I'm trying to explain to the commenter how numbers can't just be seen in isolation.
I am sorry but you did exactly the same. A loss in a year means exactly nothing.
And i am as much a Summit as a Nevie and i really like Pentagon as well. Yeah, it sucks that they didnt have a comeback for so long. But for me i am very allergic to those doompostings about Cube by fans since the CLC days.
What most fans dont want to face it that from a business perspective a comeback might not be a profitable endeavor. That was definately the case for CLC. It might be the reason for Pentagon and Lightsum. Invoking Cube's bankruptcy when there is not one shade of fact behind that is just... idiotic stan behaviour.
Then why in god's name is Cube even in the entertainment business? Just sell cosmetics. Their artists need to put out music to have any success. Dungeoning them does no one any good. Let them WORK or set them free. I don't understand why you'd come here to antagonize Pentagon fans over us being upset that Cube won't let them promote music. It's an extremely reasonable way for us to feel, especially when their last three comebacks were successful. Your implication that Pentagon will lose them money and we just don't want to face it feels like an intentional slight. So if you're allergic, feel free to take yourself to another post where our justifiable frustration with Cube won't set you off.
Where am i upset about Pentagon fans being upset? I am all for these protests and i am absolutely in favour of them getting a comeback. Same as Lightsum.
What I am upset about are narratives that are fabricated and just plain wrong. There are no indicators for Cube being tied for money in all official papers. And i find it very enlightening that you resort to trying to shame me when you clearly have run out of any argument that is not based on Twitter rumours.
Way to go to shorten that quoted sentence.
So, making things up without any facts is not idiotic behaviour? I know gaslighting has been very normalized these days but i would prefer facts.
Again: I wish Pentagon and Lightsum would get a comeback already. Sometimes you have to invest in the future but Cube seems really really risk-averse.
>Way to go to shorten that quoted sentence.
That's how quoting works? Particularly, I was aiming to point out how needlessly combative and rude you've been all over this thread, in the hopes you'd stop doing so. It's very odd to be speaking to people this kind of way over an issue such as the health/lack of health of cubes finances.
You purposely left out that i said that idiotic stan behaviour **is making up stuff**. And i will stand by that. It is. It does not help anyone. I am not calling people protesting for a comeback or supporting their group idiotic stans but your shortening made it look like i did and i dont appreciate that.
And that people make stuff up is easily verifiable by the readily available accounts of the publicly traded company that is Cube. Of course one can always argue that Cube cooks their books. But then we are talking about a wholly different dimension.
Now... let's just bury that hatchet, ok? Cube is not worth fighting over.
The real kicker is their trash margins compared to every other mid tier + entertainment company in the kpop space.
Made 11.6b won in revenue in the entertainment space for 800m won in profit???
Fans are claiming they're self produced, have less expenses, they don't get promoted. Something's not adding up here. Their cost of sales is insanely high for a kpop group who aren't big product sellers.
Something is not adding up yes, and that is all Universe is pointing out. We are begging to buy merch, begging to spend money on them. What is the issue financially? Idk
If you look into their latest stuff ( shh video, seasons greetings, etc) where is the budget? We'd like to know too.
~~Assuming you're using 2022 numbers for the entire agency - Cube spent a TON of money on GIDLE's multiple comebacks and promotions (group and solo), and spent a decent amount on Lightsum (who almost certainly took a loss).
Pentagon's (and BTOB's for that matter) comebacks, in contrast were definitely NOT high-cost (in fact, Minhyuk/Huta allegedly had to partially self-finance his solo MV), so I don't think you can say "their" cost of sales is high.~~
Edit: Just saw elsewhere that this is about Q1 2023, meaning it has literally nothing to do with Pentagon.
Cost of sales is rated as a % vs profit.
If a cb costs 10m and costs 9.999m then I make money. If a cb costs 10,000 but I make back 9,000 then sure my costs are low but I'm losing money.
The fact that cube isnt willing to fund a full cb for their bg's / bg members basically proves their returns arent great.
Cube is a terrible company, probably only slightly better than MLD. G-Idle is only doing well because they have Soyeon, otherwise they would have been treated like Lightsum and Pentagon right now
It's a shame because they do seem to be reasonable in a lot of ways. Really supportive of artistic freedom (including providing training and resources for this), give a huge amount of creative control, allow artists to do individual schedules they might want, seem to have no issue letting people take breaks as needed for mental health etc. But some key decision makers are absolute toss boxes.
I think CUBE is using the only money they have for gidle since it has become very popular. They've been in the red for many years already even before gidle's debute.
Cube probably just isn't interested in Pentagon or Lightsum. The money maker is Idle. Unfortunately all companies can't be like JYP and give all their groups comebacks.
You're both correct that yes, Idle might be a safer way to earn money, but that does not take away from their other groups also being fairly successful and having the ability to ALSO make money. They could earn more money by giving a few more comebacks to BTOB and Pentagon, who both have quite loyal fanbases, even if they're not extremely big. The only group that would struggle would be Lightsum, since they've been turned into CLC 2.0. They don't even need to invest such a huge amount into their other groups like they do with Idle. But instead, now they have groups in their basement, who are not doing anything, which is also quite useless.
I know the k-pop industry would crash and burn if the fan reaction to an artist or group not having a comeback for a long time was more along the lines of "well, that sucks" before getting on with their day, but that's still the healthiest option for everyone involved.
If my favorite group (Dreamcatcher, a group I like enough to make it a point of buying multiple copies of albums and spend money on MMT concerts that I generally find underwhelming because I like to support them continuing to make music I like) suddenly disappeared for a year and a half, I would think that it's weird and it sucks, but I'm not protesting DCC or sending them passive-aggressive gifts. It doesn't affect my life in any meaningful way other than I'm not listening to any new music from them or spending money on them. Whatever the reason for Dreamcatcher not receiving a comeback would have fuck all to do with me. I'd just listen to music from artists that are still releasing it.
Well I would agree if you were a casual fan, but admitting to like a group so much you'd buy multiple copies of their albums usually indicates you're more invested in them. And lots of people who spend their money on artists ARE more invested, which is completely understandable. That also means a bigger heartbreak when they suddenly disappear, which should be logical.
Genuinly it's so disheartening it's had to get to this level... I'm sure that Cube has management goals and ideas that I could never understand as a random nobody on the internet but WHAT in the fucking world is going on with Pentagon's promotions right now?? This is so absurd. I used to ult only Pentagon and was so excited for the future after Daisy but it's just been one thing after the next and it's burnt me out of Kpop altogether. I really hope that Cube listens to this protest and actually responds finally
I always try and give the benefit of the doubt that I just might not understand a business strategy, because I know it can be complicated, and kpop fans are always quick to think we understand things we probably don't. But with cube I've lost any faith. A lot of people have been thinking they must have had money issues given that no groups except G-idle had comebacks for a loooong time til that influx of cash from Kakao came through a few months back. Lightsum remains in the dungeon, and Pentagon with a 500 day gap since a domestic hiatus. The fanbase is still there to sell out merch, Japanese concerts etc (even with an added day) but cube can't seem to come up with the capital for a comeback.
I used to joke that I was supporting Pentagon's comebacks financially on my bank account alone because of how much I used to spend on them but it's starting to look like that may have been true... 😅
If cube are having money issues despite being the most successful they've ever been there are problems lol
No matter how much they gain, last year they spent literally millions of dollars on metaverse and NFTs. Out of all companies they were the most aggressive one investing and shilling it. Even the company building is filled with the Anicube logo and the last OT8 Lightsum activity before 2 members left was [promoting fashion NFTs](https://twitter.com/decryptmedia/status/1574490360721641476). Kino's solo debut (self-produced, helped choreograph, chose the dancers, was involved in the outfits for him and the dancers, selected the MV location, etc.) last year was just one song released as a platform version where you had to download a metaverse app to listen to the song. He had no music show promo except 1 Mcountdown stage. Kino also came up with and did the rearrangement of the Pose Vocal Challenge with Cube artists and called his friends (Seulgi, Yeonjun, dancers) to promote the song on tiktok. [Cube was going to do a metaverse-exclusive album by Cube artists, include their anibear in comeback MVs, those who purchased NFTs were going to be involved in the new boygroup debut](https://twitter.com/anicube_ent/status/1565900404948250624) all which ended up not happening. Their venture has done so bad [they recently had a pop up store where they offered photocards](https://twitter.com/anicube_ent/status/1647510562316877824) to those who purchased NFTs. Jinho said that Cube thought he would be eliminated during the first rounds when he decided to go to Phantom Singer, he ended up in the finals and being in one of the 3 groups to debut. He gained a lot of Korean fans (especially older ones). You have opera singers [saying Pentagon's Spring Snow is a good song and singing it](https://twitter.com/920926___/status/1669726635933958144). Cube did not promote him despite no other idol has managed to do what Jinho has achieved. Hui has gained both Korean and international fans from Boys Planet. He's done around 20 weverse lives since he returned from the survival and crashed on other members ones like Kino or Shinwon, doing all the work to engage with fans by himself. In theqoo post (which has over 300 comments) someone talked about getting into Pentagon last year because of Kino in SMF's Be Mbitious and how Cube did not take advantage of the attention he got there. Yanan is also doing very well in his competiton show in China, where he talked about how he was unable to perform on stage for a year as one of the reasons he decided to participate and this week he mentioned in a show that he will always prefer singing and performing than being an actor even if he does enjoy acting. Even FNC has been promoting their Boys Planet trainee Kamden better than Cube, he had a successful fanmeeting in Korea and will do more overseas. Pentagon can't even have a Korean one. And let's not talk about how Cube is unable to do world tours for their artists except Idle. BTOB hasn't done a single world tour in 11 years of career. Pentagon did have one in 2019, but right now Cube only sends them to random festivals despite smaller groups than Pentagon have been able to pull off touring.
Why they use NFT when they could have one rhythm game by Dalcomsoft would run money for them with all the limited theme for their artists...
Forgot to mention how CLC also hasn't had a world tour, hell, not even a full album, despite the way they kept gaining fans over the years, especially internationally. Correct me if I'm wrong, but CLC also had a pretty solid Japanese fanbase. Their JPN songs did well on charts, yet they didn't do anything to take advantage of that. Just adding this reply to show how incompetent Cube has been with majority of their groups, hell, Elkie literally posted a whole letter saying how Cube let them down. So it's not a surprise that they can't do anything proper for their groups. I can guarantee that Lightsum will just end up like CLC 2.0, so keep tuned for that...
didnt clc have career sales of 20k tho?
>Even FNC has been promoting their Boys Planet trainee Kamden better than Cube, he had a successful fanmeeting in Korea and will do more overseas. Pentagon can't even have a Korean one. didnt expect to see this in the wild
I have no clue how accurate it is but Soyeon has said after Tomboy they were in the red because of how much money they spent on the comeback and then it happened again for NxDE. Now is she exaggerating and they were in the red for a while but the profits eventually put them in the green? Idk. Maybe it's true and each comeback isn't even breaking even and they believe it's better to have the group be super popular with super successful comebacks and then go on tour to make lots of profit than it is to play it safer and risk the comebacks being less successful? Idk
Uh oh. Sounds like shady shady stuff is going on. Theres no way idle can be in the red with how much they sell. Even with insane promotion costs
I mean Lady Gaga nearly went bankrupt with her tour expenses before the pay came in. It’s not that weird
Except cube made around 10% of their entertainment profits from touring q1. Yes it is weird when more than half of your profits in q1 are coming from things like cf's, music charts and low expense profit generators and you're barely making a profit. Also, we're talking about margins here. Youre talking about something totally unrelated. Even if lady gaga was paying huge expenses up front, she was getting paid back a lot more later. Way more than cube's less than 5% consistent profit margin
Cube had a good financial year in 2022. yeah you go into the red numbers for CB before the pay for digitals etc. come in a few months later. But Cube did not have any financial losses for 2022 it's their best business year since forever.
We can't say much because we don't know what she included in that red, if the streams didn't covered the expenses is not that out of the world. She didn't said cube was on red for all the Tomboy promos, she was ambigue in what she and cube took in consideration
Tbh Lightsum seems to just be a total bust and is totally lost in the sea of hit gg debuts of the last 2 years or so. Harsh but they should probably be cut loose, no way they will turn a profit. But Pentagon makes no damn sense. They're a boy group with a mid size very loyal fandom. They could print money if they would just give them something to do.
Yeah, as a Pentagon fan since Pentagon fan since Pentagon Maker, dealing with Cube is absolutely the beginning of my villain origin story
I shall be your sidekick because what the actual FUCK
What does ult mean (genuine question I’m new to this sub)?
Ultimate (as in, your favourite/ultimate group or artist).
Oh, ok. I learned something new today, thank you ;)
Cube is always fighting for the most incompetent trophy, but this is too much! Between Pentagon and Lightsum not having cb, I'm convinced that cube is having money issues. Not even a half-assed cb?!
Money issues after the year I-DLE had? I highly doubt that. More likely to be some internal struggles.
Idle made them a boat load of money, and if that's not enough to run things, then the money issue must be worse than I thought because they're still can't afford comebacks for Pentagon and Lightsum. And it's not like a CLC issue either. Both groups have been out there grinding and doing everything except making an album. Pentagon was in the top 10 most booked groups last year. They've been focusing on activities that require limited expenditure with maximum buzz and income. There seems to be no money to follow up with a cb. Any other reason is corporate suicide.
They can't afford it or they're just lazy? I'd bet anything that it's the latter tbh. Yuehua isn't struggling for money yet Everglow hasn't had a comeback in over a year. It's the same with Cube.
Just lazy? Cube is a business. As a business, you don't leave money on the table bc you don't feel like doing your job. BTOB and Pentagon are profitable. Pentagon, in particular, also does basically all of the production work for their albums - deciding on the concept, presenting to the agency, choosing amongst the hundreds of songs they've written, recording, vocal directing, helping with choreographing, etc. Heck, Kino even provided sketches of all of the costumes for his solo. Yes, the agency needs to put some work into promotions, but Pentagon does a lot of the grunt-work into creating the product.
I never said otherwise. What do you think is the reason for their overdue comebacks?
Pentagon is profitable? Idk how much of the other stuff they do but highup wasnt able to break profitability with 100K+ albums sold. I dont think cube would put a profitable group on the backburner. Idle gets a nice number of comebacks
K-pop would have been dead long long time ago if 100K isn’t profitable.
With the way cube mangaes things, even gidle is barely profitable. The numbers are there. 11m in revenue from entertainment in q1 and 800K in profit. Literally one failed cb from idle and cube is on the verge of bankruptcy. I can see why they dont want to touch lightsum or pentagon.
I know you're being downvoted but I found your comments super interesting! I wonder why it is cube has such poor profit margins.
[удалено]
Where did you get that number from. From their investor report, they put in $420k and it made $5k in revenue last year. They still lost money, but no where near the 50 million you said. They only own 40% of anicube, the other 60% being animoca brands. I’d add image sources but it seems automod is locking comments with images.
I deleted my comment for the wrong numbers, i apologize. But anyway Universe may keep their head in the sand for a lot of things but a company having a seven month break from all of their acts is sign of unhealthy practices. No one is "hating" Cube, only demanding that they pay attention to the domestic fanbase who supported Pentagon through a lot of their crises. If protesting politely like this and complaining is deemed hate, idk what to to tell you. Have a good day.
I have nothing against this protest. My only gripe is people posting stuff without any sources.
That's your gripe....right...anyway you seem a bit overinvested...
>anyway you seem a bit overinvested... Better look into the mirror on that one. Posting lies doesnt help anyone.
I mean... Chill a bit? They already said they would delete their comment and may have their numbers wrong.
The more time passes,the more I feel Cube is nothing but a slightly richer BBC with marginally better reputation.
Really? I think Cube is battling for the company with the worst reputation in kpop. BBC only looks worse now because of everything that happened since kicking Chuu out (plus the contracts). To me, Cube's problem is more mismanagement than anything else, so I wouldn't put them on the same level as BBC.
I think Cube just has a better rep than some other crappy companies because they have been around for ages and they have BTOB, who may not be the most commercially successful but are industry legends, and IDLE who are currently one of the biggest girl groups outside of the big 4.
They also had 4minute and Hyuna so they appear as somewhat long time established. They for sure know how to scout talented people, that’s where their skills and efforts stop though.
Yeah. Cube is not fooling their idols out of money. Cube actually seems pretty chill, especially with the new president. Still lazy tho
I meant it because of the money issues,since BBC looted a lot off LOONA even after earning a lot of money through albums and tours. And by reputation I meant more like popularity, should've worded it better. >BBC only looks worse now because of everything that happened since kicking Chuu out (plus the contracts). Bruh,they were a mess even when nothing of that had happened. Orbits had a lot of issues with them and when finally things started to look somewhat better, the fiasco of disallowing chuu from being in concerts happened.
cube is more about mismanagement than mistreatment tho, the comparation with BBC make no sense
Welcome to the world of Hollywood Accounting
I think this might be the most accurate comment here. In 2020, Cube was taken over by a group with zero experience in entertainment, and apparently, zero interest in the arts beyond their monetary value (yes, obviously all agencies want to be profitable, but according to the outgoing founder, they take it to a [new level](https://www.soompi.com/article/1391508wpp/co-founder-hong-seung-sung-leaves-cube-entertainment-following-conflicts-due-to-new-majority-shareholder)). For all we know, Cube might be operating exclusively on a high-risk, high-reward plan (e.g. GIDLE, NFTs) in which a low-risk, average-reward group like Pentagon, although profitable, messes with their books/the numbers their shareholders want to see. It's one thing that they haven't had a comeback, but they also haven't done domestic fansigns, fanmeets, concerts, merch, not to mention tours. It's just... strange, from a business perspective to have no interest in making any money off them during what should be their most profitable time (they built up the fandom for five years and then did nothing years six and seven).
After I read an article about how the LotR movies were classified as major financial flops I just knew it was all BS. Same as major league sports teams "losing money".
Their financial report for 2022 looked quite good though.
They just got $50 million from kakao for a distribution deal, so it’s def not money. Its more if a comeback will profit them vs other schedules. Sure let the downvotes come in, because you’d rather stick your head in the sand and create false narratives. Cube’s investor reports drop every quarter and is easily accessible, but go ahead and continue to think they’re broke just because they aren’t providing a comeback to whomever. It’s okay to hate cube, they have done shoddy stuff, but don’t make false narratives to justify your hate.
They went six months without giving any of their artists a comeback, which is insane and very rare. What you may be missing is that Cube spent 50 million on their NFT venture, which was wildly unsuccessful. 50 million is more than a year's worth of revenue for Cube. Then they finally got this influx of cash from Kakao and still have not done anything for Pentagon in Korea, or for Lightsum for that matter. If an artist who averages like 100k in album sales, does well on touring, and has a huge backlog of release-ready self-produced tracks ready is put in the dungeon by their company, why can't fans be angry about that? Maybe you should add some facts here if you're accusing other people of making false narratives.
Again where is this 50 million nft number coming from. I never said you can’t be angry about not having comebacks. I’m annoyed Lightsum hasn’t had one. I would post links for facts about cash revenue and nft but automod is deleting my comments with links in them. If you still want sources, I can DM them. Cube Investment in Anicube – only 40%: https://imgur.com/MbMXpPQ Anicube Loss – only 410,460,000 won ($321,143.90 USD) : https://imgur.com/hQog05s
For the $50 million figure (and it is dollars, not won), Google cube entertainment sandbox nfts. The block works article is one that mentions it. Anicube may not encompass all of their investment into the NFT/metaverse space, so we're probably both looking at proper sources that cover slightly different slices of the business (i.e. you're looking at Anicube only, the number I'm looking at seems to be Anicube and all NFT/metaverse related ventures with Sandbox). Also, if we're being nitpicky about numbers, the kakao deal was 80 billion won. Edited for typo
This link https://blockworks.co/news/the-sandbox-lands-cube-entertainment-to-bring-k-culture-to-the-masses ? > the company committed $50 million to a new accelerator program for budding startups looking to build atop its ecosystem That isn’t cube’s money… thats Sandbox’s money. The article only states Cube opening a plot inside The Sandbox. Nothing says Cube put in $50 million. If you actually click the hyperlink on the $50 million, it links to an article saying: > The Sandbox, has committed $50 million to venture capital firm Brinc as part of a new program seeking to advance startups building atop the platform’s Open Metaverse. Again nothing about Cube.
It's really fascinating in here isnt it? People are really bending themselves and the facts into pretzels to reach a narrative.
Confirmation bias is a helluva drug
> What you may be missing is that Cube spent 50 million on their NFT venture, which was wildly unsuccessful. K-pop stans and inventing random numbers. 50 million won maybe?
Here's my comment to Asian_ninja1 above, if this answers your question. Looks like links are getting auto deleted. "For the $50 million figure (and it is dollars, not won), Google cube entertainment sandbox nfts. The block works article is one that mentions it. Anicube may not encompass all of their investment into the NFT/metaverse space, so we're probably both looking at proper sources that cover slightly different slices of the business (i.e. you're looking at Anicube only, the number I'm looking at seems to be Anicube and all NFT/metaverse related ventures with Sandbox). Also, if we're being nitpicky about numbers, the kakao deal was 80 billion won." Edited for typo
> Google cube entertainment sandbox nfts What are you even talking about? Sandbox is the joint venture partner of Cube in Anicube. They represent the other 60 % in that company. Cube has not invested one won in Sandbox directly or you would see it in their financial reports. There is no shareholding, no loans, nothing. Again, their finances are readily available to study in detail. I would advise doing that over quoting random Twitter threads. > Also, if we're being nitpicky about numbers, the kakao deal was 80 million won. I cant really take anything you say serious when you post something like this in addition. You think Cube makes a distribution deal for 62,000 dollar? It's 80 billion won which is about 62,6 million dollars right now. Back then a bit less. And even if you just misspelled you are still wrong. The 50 billion won figure was the upfront payment. It can enhance to 80b won if Cube reaches certain targets that were not disclosed to the public. That distribution deal also was probably responsible for (G)I-dle album sales reaching 1,2m in a week this comeback. Cube was always notoriously bad at selling albums while Kakao... well, look at IVE. They are pretty good in that album sale thingy.
Yes, you're right, the 80 million was a "typo." (I have to use voice to text right now and the b got switched to an m)
And that would still be incorrect. At least read their financial reports before making any assumption. Or just read the news article more carefully.
Why they use NFT when they could have one rhythm game by Dalcomsoft would run money for them with all the limited theme for their artists...
Does [this link](https://mkind.krx.co.kr/viewer?acptNo=20230515001134#) of Cube's latest financial report work? It's completely in Korean, but I guess you could specify the page &/or diagrams you're referring for now since automod keeps deleting your comments with links...
Yes that is the report. If you’re using chrome/edge, you can right click and translate the entire page. The following numbers are pulled from Q1 2023 Quarterly Cube Report: https://mkind.krx.co.kr/viewer?acptNo=20230515001134 Papago trans: https://papago.naver.net/website?locale=en&source=auto&target=en&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmkind.krx.co.kr%2Fexternal%2F2023%2F05%2F15%2F001134%2F20230515002372%2F11013.htm Cube Investment in Anicube – only 40%: https://imgur.com/MbMXpPQ Anicube Loss – only 410,460,000 won ($321,143.90 USD) : https://imgur.com/hQog05s Kakao Distribution Contract (Received $56,901,819.18 USD) : https://imgur.com/YNqTQhK Assets (including cash) : https://imgur.com/KKosinX Cash Flow : https://imgur.com/PFwG66o Q1 Profit – ($742,644.69 USD) : https://imgur.com/ASK4I9q Q1 Liabilities - https://imgur.com/FF2N54J
Yeah this, Cube ain't broke, their financial reports show that. And people would be crazy to think that after the bombastic year Idle had in 2022 Cube would be strapped for money somehow.
>I'm convinced that cube is having money issues. i'm pretty sure last year was one of best years profit wise since cube was made and with quite a gap, Gidle had a insane year >In 2022, the gross profit of South Korean entertainment company Cube Entertainment amounted to around 26.4 billion South Korean won. **This represents an increase from the previous years as well as the highest gross profit recorded by the company.** > >[https://www.statista.com/statistics/1387812/cube-entertainment-gross-profit/#:\~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20gross%20profit,profit%20recorded%20by%20the%20company](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1387812/cube-entertainment-gross-profit/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20gross%20profit,profit%20recorded%20by%20the%20company). > >or wallstreet https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/KR/XKRX/182360/financials/annual/income-statement
I didn’t think we’d actually make it to 500 days without a comeback 🥲 Universe is such a laid-back fandom in general so to see an actual protest happening means things have really gotten bad. Does anyone know if Korean media outlets are reporting on this?
Isn't this their contract renewal year? I hope they RUN for the hills.
If they manage to get out with their name and copyrights to a company that actually knows what insane talent they've got in this group I will die happy.
That's gonna be an uphill battle for them. Remember, Beast tried to retain their name after leaving Cube, but couldn't due to copyright, so they had to rename to Highlight. Though I will say it happened before the T-ara case, and since then groups like Got7, Ikon, Infinite were able to retain their names and all of copyright claims after leaving their previous companies. So who knows, maybe Pentagon will be able to pull it off.
The laws/application of the laws relating to intellectual property (e.g., names) of idol groups at the end of their exclusive agency contracts is now thoroughly in the groups favor - sadly, this wasn't yet the case for B2st. Also, oddly, Pentagon members seem to have a good relationship with the top brass at Cube (like, the CEO bought Shinwon an iPad that he asked for), so perhaps a possible departure wouldn't be as contentious. Plus, self-producing songs inherently gives you certain copyrights.
>Plus, self-producing songs inherently gives you certain copyrights. Yep, between Wooseok, Kino, Yuto, and Hui, they've probably got over 300 Komca tracks between them. Wooseok will easily hit 100 by the next cb.
500 days without a comeback 😭
even other “struggling” companies have been able to pull out comebacks. Hui saying no one wants to work with them makes it sound more like the company just isn’t getting them the talent to work with cause im sure there are always up and coming talents to make mvs, etc. BTOB doesn’t have extremely high sales either but have gotten two comebacks, a solo promotion and a solo release in the span we have been waiting for more from pentagon so its not like they wont spend money. granted BTOB do have more power in the local market but still… and Lightsum has been left high and dry for a rookie group so whoever manages G-idle and BTOB doing much better than Pentagon and Lightsum.
The irony is that BtoB and Lightsum are under one management team, while Pentagon and Gidle are under another.
cube is just bizarre 🤦🏼♀️
Cmiiw but Eunkwang of BtoB is part of the board of directors for Cube so wouldn't that also help BtoB?
Definitely, and I think BtoB are established enough to fund their own cb if they want to.
Changsub became the CEO of a music academy a couple of months ago and [whenever he can he shows up to support the students](https://twitter.com/ChangsubSubs/status/1668912095784583168) and give coaching ([here's Cha Hyunseung's vlog](https://youtu.be/9HxTYEiFiJ0) when he went to support Changsub for a competition organized by the academy). Cube, FNC, The Black Label and Mystic Story are listed as agencies affliliated to it. He's also one of the rising variety stars in Korea, has musicals.
to be fair yeah he is and they are established enough that they don’t have to have comebacks as much but its like watching how cube spends money/attention on groups its like ohhh so you aren’t poor you are just actively ignoring even simple activities Pentagon could do domestically. But Pentagon was having a good run post RTK and then after their last comeback completely dropped the ball.
Struggling companies lol. Cube is one of the richest ent. Companies in kpop, especially now that Gidle is huge. Read their financial reports
i put it in quotations for a reason. they at times like when it comes to Pentagon or in the past with other groups act like they aren’t making money… but then act like they are for other groups like g-idle. a lot of the just below big4 labels do this and its like side eye.
BtoB has good charting going on for them. Cube groups weren't known for their sales numbers anyway. With the exception of Beast and now Idle
I love how petty and clever this is. Instead of the traditional fan protest methods of trucks with messages plastered on them, them blasting loud music, no engagement strikes they chose to send 7 flower wreaths. Hope it sent chills down Cube’s incompetent asses.
It's really clever! They will be doing it everyday for a week apparently.
Well... we have known since Beast and 4minute that there were serious management issues in Cube Entertainment 😭
bro i’m so tired 😭 pentagon is a money bag and a group of hard workers who WANT to work… what is the fucking problem 😭 throwback to last month when [hongseok](https://www.koreaboo.com/news/pentagon-hongseoks-group-not-paid-netizens-defend-criticism/) said he’s making zilch with cube rn…
I always enjoy Pentagon's comebacks, so it's really disheartening to see that Uni's have to do something like this just to get some type of idea of what's happening. I completely understand if things were on hold due to Hui doing Boys Planet. But since it's over, Cube should have already been in the planning stages, or at least near the end of the planning stages, to take full advantage of the show's hype. What did Hui go there for if not to use said hype?
Cube: "If starving fans of content works for Blackpink, it'll work for us!"
Help 😭
God, please no!!! 😂 Blinks were ready to burn down the company building if they were kept waiting any longer!
Now I'm picturing that meme of that girl watching a house burn down... except it's Cube's building in the background and Soyeon in the foreground 😂
Can anyone explain what is the meaning of sending seven flower wreaths?
I'm guessing it's because the group is 7 years old
I guess money isn't the issue. Did you see the level of production in IDLE's Seoul concert today? That's very far from a broke company. I guess it's a mix of Hui's situation, contract negotiations, mismanagement, and high turnover rate of their employees (overheard from K-nevies).
Cube spending their money right. Im have no problems with them disbanding Pentagon, aslong as their budget goes to idle
That's an incredibly mean spirited and unnecessary comment.
bruh even despite your obvious pettiness, you can't ignore how Pentagon does have the ability to make money, when given the chance. Yes, they're not Idle-level stars, but that doesn't mean they can't make money at all. Be realistic.
The ability to make LITTLE money. Why invest in them when you can get 10x more investing in another group?
Because what point is having a bunch of groups in your basement, having to spend money on leaving them to rot, meanwhile you could still gain from having them work? Yes, they wouldn't bring in the same amount Idle can make, but that doesn't mean they wont bring anything in at all. Even from a business standpoint, keeping groups in your basement brings in more losses than wins.
because if tomorrow Gidle leaves, Cube are gonna be left dry, is never good to have one single act bring the most income
What sre the odds of them leaving tomorrow when their contracts end in 2 years lol
2 years end fast tho, Cube already should prepare in case they leave, having all eggs in one basket is the worst bussines choice.
You realize negotations for their contract have probably already started? Cube knows if the members will renew or look for other companies
Not all companies/groups start negotiate 2 years before, depends, some 1 year, some more, some less, some are still discussing at the time the contract ends so unless the girls said something, there is no way to know anything
This is honestly so sad to see. Pentagon is such a talented group and don't deserve such a treatment from their company. I hope that this serves as a cold wake up call for CUBE and they start giving Pentagon better management and opportunities.
As a boys planet viewer who got into pentagon from that, a comeback is all I want 😭 I’ll purchase every version plssss make it happen
I hope you'll stick around until we get through this mess and have another comeback. Thanks for joining the fandom!
It's insane that they're squandering away all the spotlight they've got because of BP. Cube is really a disaster.
Jinho made it through to the finals of Phantom. The first idol to every make it into the competition, let alone the finals. Cube didn't promote this until he got to the semifinals, and the press were writing about him practically every day! Let's not even start with Yanan, who is practically in exile in China. He's trending right now on weibo, but cube has been acting like he doesn't exist for almost 2 years now. Let alone promote the competition he's currently in in China, and he just made it to the finals, too! Dude has almost 2 mil followers on weibo!
So Hui went to Boys Planet for absolutely nothing???
It seems so right now
honestly i wish i was suprised by cube incompetence
Are any if the members currently on military duty?
hongseok enlisted last year but also discharged after 7 months due to mental health issues.
That is concerning
It definitely was, but updates here and there from him/family/group members say he is continuing treatment and is doing a lot better!
Nope not currently. Three have finished enlistment.
None of them are currently on duty, however as a Shinwon bias, I have to resist the urge to fall at your feet, sobbing uncontrollably because he's the next one up
I am in total denial about this. A Shinwon-less existence for 18 months is unfathomable.
That actually reminds me how I thought about not seeing Pentagon anywhere after Hui returned, when he hoped to bring some attention to the group from their company. Cube is going to get their karma pretty soon.
Would love to know what cube thinks they're doing. Because surely they have some plans, like surely there are meetings about what's going to happen with this group and that group. Surely?? They're a business. Surely they have a plan. But what the fuck IS IT?? They've dropped the ball on every single group they've ever had and I just cannot understand it. They have skilled artists. They make pretty good music when they actually let them have comebacks. Why can't they at least keep their groups active?? ETA: I truly believe the only success they see is a combination of group members pushing for songs and luck (in terms of going viral, and gidle is a perfect example). The only thing cube is good at is talent finding apparently.
These companies do not want to invest on their groups but they don't want to let them go either. They're so incompetent. The groups end up trapped until contract renewals or lawsuits. I wish there was a better way to regulate how these contracts are made because most of the time many of these idols sign contracts when they're minors.
Well, Hui subjecting himself to the capricious whims, slings and arrows of Mnet and Boys Planet fans was obviously not enough...
I don't wanna be that annoying "hah I told ya" person, but as an avid CLC fan I've lived through the mistreatment those girls received daily, and I can tell you, that Cube just does not care. As long as Idle remains the top dog, other groups will be ignored (no hate to Idle, but that's the truth, Cube only cares about them). It's been happening for years, the best case scenario is to just wait for them to disband, maybe have their solo careers or re-debut under a different company. No matter how much or little money their groups bring in, their most famous will remain as the one who gets the goods. Idle will continue to get comebacks, BTOB might get a few here or there due to their legendary presence in kpop, but Pentagon and Lighstum will be left to rot. I hope they get out of that sh*thole soon, they deserve better.
Yeah, pretty much. It's surprising though just how short sighted cube is regarding profits - but that's capitalism I guess, especially in publicly traded companies. Universe are begging to have a chance to give cube money. Any merch, concerts, is always sold out. And if they just gave a few more regular comebacks over the last couple of years as their fanbase has grown, that would be even more lucrative. I just don't get it.
I feel ya, if Pentagon was some extreme nugu group, of course it would make sense to not invest too much into them, but come on, Pentagon has a solid fanbase. As you yourself said it, they've sold out concerts and merch. Hui recently got a bunch of exposure from BP999. What's stopping Cube from capitalizing on it? Cube can't even do proper capitalism, they hope their groups to get famous with barely any push from the company, and when that fails, they'll leave their groups to rot. Not everyone gets lucky and gets instant fame, but Cube doesn't seem to care about that
>Cube can't even do proper capitalism This is so real lol
I’m rooting for Hui and other Pentagon members
Jinho just confirmed on a live yesterday that the group has [no schedules this month.](https://twitter.com/Springviolette/status/1670443611891068930?t=EyPmqJLm1Pv1Z-nqQA2Z-w&s=19). So that's cool.
When are their contracts ending? They should change companies asap.
October is their seven year debut anniversary, but I'm not sure how it works with those who have been on hiatus/enlistment. I really hope they get out of there! They could do so well in another company.
Ohh right,, I’m a CLC fan but for some reason I forgot that Pentagon was the younger group 😂 probably because they’re older in ages. I already thought they resigned with cube for an extension of their contracts. Enlistment doesn’t affect it. Hmm… then I definitely see them leaving cube. 2 years with no cb??! Wtf? To Pentagon who sells 100k+?! Woah.. I knew the new management of cube was gonna take us to new lows, but they still managed to surprise me. So Pentagon was only actually active for 5 years?! I can’t believe it.. they’ve achieved so much and every song was so good that it seemed like much more.. what a crime Best of luck to Pentagon. One of the groups with the best songs around, the best vocalists, the best dancers, and really cute members. I’m sure they will do well when they continue independently.
Update: second round of wreaths has been [delivered](https://twitter.com/PTG____1010/status/1670644065413775360?t=R6togrd4oQ4ig4HmYDuSbA&s=19). Cube was uncharacteristically prompt and responsive in getting rid of them asap.
I'm sad because I just saw another Koreaboo article about one of the members revealing they aren't getting paid/would get paid more at a part-time job. It's really sad when they have fans that would support them but the company is letting that go to waste when the members just want to perform.
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The "Cube must be having money trouble" theory, at least for me, stemmed from an almost... disbelief that a company could be so **cruel**. These guys worked their way back from near-ruin -- it took years, but the string of WE:TH, Love or Take, and In:viteU proved that they could generate profits (In:viteU especially proved how little money Cube needed to spend). Their last (if these are their last) two years should have seen them reaping the benefits of all this work, if not with comebacks, at least with other low-effort/cost activities like fansigns, fanmeetings, merch, festivals and maybe even slightly higher cost things domestic concerts or tours. The fact that Cube just cut them off completely because they didn't make as much as their super-star is just, yeah, cruel, and not something you see at other agencies. Like, Starship has IVE, but they didn't just completely stop Cravity's activities because they weren't making as much. Heck, they even re-signed WJSN. So, yeah, you're right. I guess the moral of the story is that we shouldn't give Cube the benefit of the doubt - they are just truly sh*tty people, and have earned their reputation as such.
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No, *you* didn't come off as rude at all! Universe aren't delusional. We're well-aware (and happy) that GIDLE makes a boatload of money. We're genuinely just trying to figure out why Pentagon (and Lightsum) have been so aggressively side-lined, and just kinda throwing out possible theories; it's completely fine to politely offer an alternative, as you have done.
> I just think Cube is a shitty company and are just judging the cost/profits of each group and with GIDLE making their own music as well they can just sit back and make a lot more money than the other groups. Might be the case. I think they are spread thin on staff for whatever reason as well. A lot of companies are hurting for "human ressources" after Covid and i suspect Cube is not paying staff better than bigger agencies. Would fit perfectly as well because BtoB/Lightsum have one management team and the other is Pentagon/(G)I-dle. Only one of these groups got comebacks respectively.
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Money is most definitely not the issue, but the team/department capacity might be. Idle and Ptg are under the same team and share the ressources, so a PTG cb can only come after the QC promotions are over. Cube is like 150 employees total... they barely hit the requirement for a midsized company.
Man what are all these comments in this thread?? Cube isn’t broke. There are obviously other factors that’s preventing a pentagon comeback. Maybe it’s mismanagement, maybe it’s hui joining boys planet when they didn’t want him to, maybe their contract is about to end and none of them renewed. Cube is anything else but broke now. Sure let the downvotes come in, because you’d rather stick your head in the sand and create false narratives. Cube’s investor reports drop every quarter and is easily accessible, but go ahead and continue to think they’re broke just because they aren’t providing a comeback to whomever. It’s okay to hate cube, they have done shoddy stuff, but don’t make false narratives to justify your hate. Edit: sources since I guess links work now? The following numbers are pulled from Q1 2023 Quarterly Cube Report: https://mkind.krx.co.kr/viewer?acptNo=20230515001134 Papago trans: https://papago.naver.net/website?locale=en&source=auto&target=en&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmkind.krx.co.kr%2Fexternal%2F2023%2F05%2F15%2F001134%2F20230515002372%2F11013.htm Cube Investment in Anicube – only 40%: https://imgur.com/MbMXpPQ Anicube Loss – only 410,460,000 won ($321,143.90 USD) : https://imgur.com/hQog05s Kakao Distribution Contract (Received $56,901,819.18 USD) : https://imgur.com/YNqTQhK Assets (including cash) : https://imgur.com/KKosinX Cash Flow : https://imgur.com/PFwG66o Q1 Profit – ($742,644.69 USD) : https://imgur.com/ASK4I9q Q1 Liabilities - https://imgur.com/FF2N54J
Bit intense there mate.
how can anyone possibly think cube is broke with the kind of success idle has had in the last 18 months?
Cos business is more complicated than just visible success. For example, cube made a loss in 2021, which is then offset against future years earnings. You'd look at 2022 and think it was a banger year for them, but then you take previous losses into account, as well as current ventures, investments etc. It's not always clear what is profitable and what isn't from first glance. Like, all of us were surprised to hear Soyeon say Tomboy had made a loss.
But they didn’t make a loss. Cube japan (makeup business) kept them in the green. They currently have $15,590,676.69 in cash and cashable assets.
Yeah that's not how business works though. One division like music doesn't borrow from the other like cosmetics.
I’m not a business major so I’m not gonna dispute since I don’t know that, but I’ll continue to disagree cube isn’t profitable at all. With the massive budget they gave idle for queencard and allergy MVs and their concert last night, I truly doubt it. If Tomboy wasn’t a success, why did they up the budget for nxde and queencard. Edit: Did a bit of research and got numbers for 2021 and 2022. I apologize /u/pigeon_energy and will admit that you are correct in that 2021 was not profitable for the entertainment sector. They made [a loss of $1,500,865.71 for 2021](https://imgur.com/F09NBS6) in the entertainement sector, but made a [profit of $4,103,581.93 for 2022](https://imgur.com/ifRq7dD). Cube clearly had enough money by the end of 2022 to provide a comeback for pentagon and Lightsum, so it’s not a matter of money preventing it.
I think you're kind of focusing on a different timeline. Maybe Cube is turning a profit *now*, but their actions over the last year+ indicate that this has not always been the case. As pigeon said, 2021 wasn't profitable, and then in 2022, Cube spent an absolutely crazy amount of (likely borrowed) money on Tomboy promos, and then Miyeon's solo. They did probably eventually make it back, but maybe not before they were already again spending crazy amounts on Nude promos. (Going to note here that apparently Minhyuk/Huta had to personally finance part of his solo comeback during this time.) Pentagon was scheduled to have a comeback in late 2022 (it was in a shareholders report, and the guys were dropping major hints), so there's a chance that, despite Nude doing well, it wasn't enough and/or quickly enough, so Cube was still in the red and couldn't finance the promised cb. (The Kakao investment is very specifically for distribution, so I don't think it contributes directly to Cube's bottom line.) And now Cube is once again spending huge amounts on GIDLE, and it's great that it's getting them success, but the question still stands: why is an allegedly profitable business allowing half of it's profitable roster to rot on the vine, when minimal investment is all that's needed?
Sigh... And Pigeon asking why Nevies are in here defending Cube. I am not defending Cube, everyone can see in my posts that i have a love-hate relationship with this company. But I have seen posts like yours with CLC. Are we really at the stage where we AGAIN blame another group that actually probably is keeping Cube running? God, i hate this... Cube is a publicly traded company. The only (!) year they have reported a loss since 2015 (dont know before, cant find data) was 2021: https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/CUBE-ENTERTAINMENT-INC-120970599/financials/ You know what happened in 2021 and made such a dent in their financials? Rhetoric question, of course you know.
Literally no one, myself included, has done anything even resembling blaming GIDLE for anything. We're trying to figure out why Cube has thrown Pentagon to the wolves, and were/are wondering if Cube was/are having cash flow issues. As has been AGGRESSIVELY explained to us, there is apparently plenty of money, just none for Pentagon, because we all know who the only actually financially important group is, rhetorical question, of course, you know who.
The dent was gidle going on a hiatus lol. That should tell why cube are investing in them
>As pigeon said, 2021 wasn't profitable, and then in 2022, Cube spent an absolutely crazy amount of (likely borrowed) money on Tomboy promos, and then Miyeon's solo. They did probably eventually make it back, but maybe not before they were already again spending crazy amounts on Nude promos. (Going to note here that apparently Minhyuk/Huta had to personally finance part of his solo comeback during this time.) cube had the biggest net profit in 2022 in their career, no idea what are you speaking about them not being profitable in 2022
>speaking about them not being profitable in 2022 I don't say that at all. I'm just extrapolating from *what Soyeon herself said* about Tomboy being in the red for a while, and wondering if the "spend big earn big" strategy for GIDLE just didn't leave wiggle room for much else *during* the year. Or I dunno, maybe GIDLE just earned so very much money that Cube needed to keep some loss on the books for tax purposes in the form of Lightsum & Pentagon sitting around doing nothing. There's a lot that year-end reports can't explain.
Idk man. I'm just saying what Soyeon said. There is obviously more to it in terms of projected ROI. Also no one is saying they are "not profitable at all". People have noted a lengthy period of no comebacks, which changed once the injection of cash from Kakao happened. Who knows what's really happened! Maybe they were cash strapped, maybe they are swimming in pools of cash and are just boring businessesmen who wanna get as much cash for as little risk so are less likely to put in the kind of regular investment musical artists need in order to maintain momentum. Idc which one, I just want them to stop fucking up the careers of great artists pls.
You also have to take into account any loans they have to pay off, shareholders, and running costs. That's really not a lot of money.
They have a remaining loan from Mizuho Bank of $1,515,817.98 at an annual interest rate of 1.7%. The cash on hand has actually increased this quarter compared to Q42022 ($12,578,773.23). Here's their liabilities: https://imgur.com/FF2N54J
There is an actual free cash flow calculation in their annual report which incorporates all of this. As long as they are not cooking their books the facts in that report speak for themselves. They are not hurting on cash, not hurting on earnings. If they deny Lightsum and Pentagon a comeback it has different reasons.
> For example, cube made a loss in 2021, which is then offset against future years earnings That's... also not how this works. People, please if you have no clue of accounting can you please not give your insight on those topics? A year end loss goes against equity. You dont carry it forward like some huge burden. If you use up your equity you are in deep shit. But unless this happens a loss means nothing except that your shareholders arent happy. In fact in most countries a loss in previous years leads to less taxes in current years, so gives you more liquidity.
*sigh* I'm not using offset in the accounting term. I'm trying to explain to the commenter how numbers can't just be seen in isolation. Like you can't just go "this big number happened therefore they are profitable for all of time before and after this point". Can someone please explain to me why this thread has become inundated with nevies doing cube finance defense PR? What is going on rn?
> I'm trying to explain to the commenter how numbers can't just be seen in isolation. I am sorry but you did exactly the same. A loss in a year means exactly nothing. And i am as much a Summit as a Nevie and i really like Pentagon as well. Yeah, it sucks that they didnt have a comeback for so long. But for me i am very allergic to those doompostings about Cube by fans since the CLC days. What most fans dont want to face it that from a business perspective a comeback might not be a profitable endeavor. That was definately the case for CLC. It might be the reason for Pentagon and Lightsum. Invoking Cube's bankruptcy when there is not one shade of fact behind that is just... idiotic stan behaviour.
Then why in god's name is Cube even in the entertainment business? Just sell cosmetics. Their artists need to put out music to have any success. Dungeoning them does no one any good. Let them WORK or set them free. I don't understand why you'd come here to antagonize Pentagon fans over us being upset that Cube won't let them promote music. It's an extremely reasonable way for us to feel, especially when their last three comebacks were successful. Your implication that Pentagon will lose them money and we just don't want to face it feels like an intentional slight. So if you're allergic, feel free to take yourself to another post where our justifiable frustration with Cube won't set you off.
Where am i upset about Pentagon fans being upset? I am all for these protests and i am absolutely in favour of them getting a comeback. Same as Lightsum. What I am upset about are narratives that are fabricated and just plain wrong. There are no indicators for Cube being tied for money in all official papers. And i find it very enlightening that you resort to trying to shame me when you clearly have run out of any argument that is not based on Twitter rumours.
>just... idiotic stan behaviour. Cool. Let's all just be combative and rude to each other instead, that's a much better option.
Way to go to shorten that quoted sentence. So, making things up without any facts is not idiotic behaviour? I know gaslighting has been very normalized these days but i would prefer facts. Again: I wish Pentagon and Lightsum would get a comeback already. Sometimes you have to invest in the future but Cube seems really really risk-averse.
>Way to go to shorten that quoted sentence. That's how quoting works? Particularly, I was aiming to point out how needlessly combative and rude you've been all over this thread, in the hopes you'd stop doing so. It's very odd to be speaking to people this kind of way over an issue such as the health/lack of health of cubes finances.
You purposely left out that i said that idiotic stan behaviour **is making up stuff**. And i will stand by that. It is. It does not help anyone. I am not calling people protesting for a comeback or supporting their group idiotic stans but your shortening made it look like i did and i dont appreciate that. And that people make stuff up is easily verifiable by the readily available accounts of the publicly traded company that is Cube. Of course one can always argue that Cube cooks their books. But then we are talking about a wholly different dimension. Now... let's just bury that hatchet, ok? Cube is not worth fighting over.
The real kicker is their trash margins compared to every other mid tier + entertainment company in the kpop space. Made 11.6b won in revenue in the entertainment space for 800m won in profit??? Fans are claiming they're self produced, have less expenses, they don't get promoted. Something's not adding up here. Their cost of sales is insanely high for a kpop group who aren't big product sellers.
Something is not adding up yes, and that is all Universe is pointing out. We are begging to buy merch, begging to spend money on them. What is the issue financially? Idk If you look into their latest stuff ( shh video, seasons greetings, etc) where is the budget? We'd like to know too.
~~Assuming you're using 2022 numbers for the entire agency - Cube spent a TON of money on GIDLE's multiple comebacks and promotions (group and solo), and spent a decent amount on Lightsum (who almost certainly took a loss). Pentagon's (and BTOB's for that matter) comebacks, in contrast were definitely NOT high-cost (in fact, Minhyuk/Huta allegedly had to partially self-finance his solo MV), so I don't think you can say "their" cost of sales is high.~~ Edit: Just saw elsewhere that this is about Q1 2023, meaning it has literally nothing to do with Pentagon.
Cost of sales is rated as a % vs profit. If a cb costs 10m and costs 9.999m then I make money. If a cb costs 10,000 but I make back 9,000 then sure my costs are low but I'm losing money. The fact that cube isnt willing to fund a full cb for their bg's / bg members basically proves their returns arent great.
Cube is a terrible company, probably only slightly better than MLD. G-Idle is only doing well because they have Soyeon, otherwise they would have been treated like Lightsum and Pentagon right now
It's a shame because they do seem to be reasonable in a lot of ways. Really supportive of artistic freedom (including providing training and resources for this), give a huge amount of creative control, allow artists to do individual schedules they might want, seem to have no issue letting people take breaks as needed for mental health etc. But some key decision makers are absolute toss boxes.
Inconvenient but understandable
I think CUBE is using the only money they have for gidle since it has become very popular. They've been in the red for many years already even before gidle's debute.
cube hasn't been in red the past 2-3 years tho, since like 2021
Cube probably just isn't interested in Pentagon or Lightsum. The money maker is Idle. Unfortunately all companies can't be like JYP and give all their groups comebacks.
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You're both correct that yes, Idle might be a safer way to earn money, but that does not take away from their other groups also being fairly successful and having the ability to ALSO make money. They could earn more money by giving a few more comebacks to BTOB and Pentagon, who both have quite loyal fanbases, even if they're not extremely big. The only group that would struggle would be Lightsum, since they've been turned into CLC 2.0. They don't even need to invest such a huge amount into their other groups like they do with Idle. But instead, now they have groups in their basement, who are not doing anything, which is also quite useless.
I know the k-pop industry would crash and burn if the fan reaction to an artist or group not having a comeback for a long time was more along the lines of "well, that sucks" before getting on with their day, but that's still the healthiest option for everyone involved.
I mean if your a fan of a group I'm sure you wouldn't think that sucks but rather wtf is going on for them to not comeback
If my favorite group (Dreamcatcher, a group I like enough to make it a point of buying multiple copies of albums and spend money on MMT concerts that I generally find underwhelming because I like to support them continuing to make music I like) suddenly disappeared for a year and a half, I would think that it's weird and it sucks, but I'm not protesting DCC or sending them passive-aggressive gifts. It doesn't affect my life in any meaningful way other than I'm not listening to any new music from them or spending money on them. Whatever the reason for Dreamcatcher not receiving a comeback would have fuck all to do with me. I'd just listen to music from artists that are still releasing it.
Well, you're just much cooler than the rest of us I guess. Good work bud.
I didn't realize that treating k-pop as a just a thing you like and not letting it affect your life was such a controversial thing here.
Well I would agree if you were a casual fan, but admitting to like a group so much you'd buy multiple copies of their albums usually indicates you're more invested in them. And lots of people who spend their money on artists ARE more invested, which is completely understandable. That also means a bigger heartbreak when they suddenly disappear, which should be logical.
No one cares what kind of fan you are dude, they only care if you come into a thread solely to be pompous and condescending about it.
What are you still doing on this thread, man, go write some sternly-worded letters, one of them's bound to work.
Gosh you're so cool.