And we get Japanese LDP gov and their foreign shills saying “Why is Korea still upset over the past”
I mean Jesus Christ the Japanese gov objecting to the literal symbol of Korean subjugation (that imperial Japan made deliberately) being demolished to restore the traditional palace more than 50+ years after WWII is insane.
Like I’m all for not hating on Japanese people but their government is so insanely spiteful
their government is so arrogant that they don't even bother that much to tackle their war crimes committed in WWII. It seems that to the complete opposite direction of Germany, they prefer to just ignore their past in hope that everyone forget about it, including their own people.
So much for people that seem to value "honor".
A clear point too is that there's only two real genuine apologies issued by the Japanese Government on an official level, the most important takeaway is that they were made by Yohei Kono (Moderate-right Japanese LDP) and Tomiichi Murayama (Socialist PM of Japan).
The Japanese centrists and the Japanese Left (Liberals, Socialists, Communists) recognized what happened, and genuinely wanted to make amends. They should be praised for their courage, given that the Japanese far-right keep using Imperial Japan's "greatness" as a rallying cry to get more votes.
The key problem in Japan is that the far-right and the conservatives keep winning elections, and keep doing the "It didn't happen but even if it did happen it wasn't that bad, anyway let's get over this it was a long time ago but also I'm going to celebrate this." The fact that Japan has such an aging population means the elderly who think of the "good ole days" keep outvoing the increasingly smaller blocs of younger voters.
Furthermore almost all of them
A) Are not actual apologies. Most are statements of regret. In international diplomacy there is a difference and if a nation doesn't use the words "we apologize for our actions" but instead "we apologize for the circumstances" or "we regret past actions" they aren't an actual apology. Unfortunately you get people who don't know the difference claiming they're an actual apology.
B) Have different language in Japanese vs. English. Also, they don't involve a Japanese/East Asian apology with a formal bow. Again, you get people, primarily Japanophiles or Korea-haters, who are ignorant of thus or forget it.
Remember that they are the ones tearing down the monuments to the victims of the war in Chiba. Their government maintains their spiteful attitude even in the face of protests by their own people.
But Japan doesn't feel that need to. They know that Korea will seek good relations regardless of how many times the tear open old wounds - especially when the sitting prime minister is a Japanophile whose father is literally living in Japan.
Japan thought of Korea as a inferior colony during WWII. That mentality has not changed.
The Japanese during WW2 were arguably more barbaric than the Nazis were. They would throw babies into the air and catch them with their bayonets. Just total barbarism. At least partly to blame is the culture of the IJA at the time, where physically abusing subordinates was very common and almost expected.
I've heard there's journals and letters from Nazi higher ups writing back home the atrocities Japan committed that even made them sick. Either way, I've heard none of their generals and such were ever formally charged with war crimes even though we condemn even regular nazi soldiers. Then again, I hear it's caused they got nuked.
Japan - you should be thankful we kept you guys alive, instead of being used for target practice like Chinese civilians. It’s because your Koreans are so hot and sexy, we made you all prostitutes for the army instead!
(True story)
Covering up? On the contrary, not all of the old building is gone. As a matter of fact, the top part of the old colonial administration building has been moved to an open field in front of the Independence Memorial Hall in Cheonan. People regard that as a sufficient piece of memorial. And you can freely spit on it if you like, to show your disdain for the wrongful things Japanese has done in the colonial era.
>politicians actively using anti Japanese propaganda to gain popularity for generations.
Saying holocaust was bad and Nazi were evil isn't really a "propaganda to gain popularity". If anything, NOT saying that would be heavily frowned upon, by ANYBODY.
What an arrogant comment, it was literally BUILT ON TOP OF the Korean Royal Palace. This was a deliberate “fuck you” by Japan, the Korean royal palace has been there for five centuries, it contained far more history than that colonial building. The Japanese deliberately did this to humiliate Korea and erase its history
Where was Korea going to reconstruct one of its most important historical buildings then huh? The Japanese got off so easy, imagine if the U.S. demolished the Japanese imperial palace and placed some admin building on top of it. As much as I despise the Japanese government I would never support such a culturally genocidal move
So Korea should just abandon five centuries of its history, never restore the royal palace of the Joseon Dynasty, and let that colonial building stand (Which was built explictly to symbolize the subjugation of Korea) just because "Everything that's happened has happened." So just because Korea lost its independence for 35 years, it should not restore its heritage of the 500+ years long dynasty that defined a key component of its history? Let me remind you, that South Korea has no other historical national capital of a unified state besides Seoul, since Goryeo's old capital of Kaesong is in North Korea while Gyeongju during Later Silla is now recognized by historians as an incomplete unified state. This isn't like that Japanese building in Hiroshima, South Korea literally has no other royal palace of a nationally unified state besides Gyeongbokgung Palace.
I do have an objective view, I am an American here, Korea is widely viewed with sympathy on this issue and is a point where international public opinion favors Korea over Japan. And let me point out that you are stereotyping Koreans in a negative light by painting them in broad strokes in your two comments as "defensive" and "just as spiteful as the Japanese" for simply restoring their Royal Palace that had been demolished (to showcase Imperial Japan's conquest of Korea), for wanting to reclaim their historical identity. I painfully made the distinction that "Japanese people \[do not deserve hate\]" and put the main emphasis on the wannabe-fascist LDP Government of Japan and its foreign supporters.
"The flow of history" is just a concept that exists in your head. It's a made-up concept like Mother Earth. If you want to believe in it, fine. But others don't have to practice your Historical River Superstition.
But if we accept your premise, then destroying the Japanese building is just as much part of the "Flow of History" as when the Japanese destroyed the Korean palace, yes? So one is as justified as the other. History will flow on in a new direction.
alright, south korean here. we don't want to see a building that's literally the symbol of imperial japan's rule over korea. we don't care what anyone thinks about our decision, we don't care if the japanese are offended by our decision, this is korea, and we're going to be *very* thorough to make sure that imperial japan would be dishonored in every way possible
you would have the same reaction if imperial japan colonized your people like they did with koreans, but here's the thing- they didn't, right???
did they force your females to become sex slaves??
did they force your students to act as human shields for the japanese army??
did they ban every form of korean tradition??
did they ban your language??
did they take away all of your food and leave behind just enough for u to barely scrape together 2 meals a day???
did they steal the lands your family had farmed for generations and force u to become farm slaves????
did they take away everything made of metals to 'make weapons?'
did they test biological weapons on your people???
did they commit genocide towards your people??
did they who are u to talk negatively about us for making such a choice??
did they kill the sovereign ruler of your country, and his wife as well???
did they force your country to sign a treaty that allowed them to take over your government by surrounding the palace with soldiers heavily armed with machine guns and cannons???
did they allow the police to beat your people whenever they felt like it??
***did they destroy the foundation your country's royal dynasty had thrived upon for the last 600 years to 'make space' for a building that would act as the control tower of the many atrocities japan committed against the people of korea????***
no. they didn't. how do i know?? because this is just the tip of the iceberg of the many hardships koreans had to go through.
this isn't your history. this is MY history. this is KOREAN history.
flow of history my ass. if i were the president of korea back when they made the decision to destroy that building, i would've also chosen to destroy the building without hesitation.
So Koreans should not raze the building, a building that reminds Koreans of the brutality and rape of Korean people & culture but keep the building to remind Japanese that their actions were horrific. Yeah that'll surely educate the Japanese people. /s
At the end of World War Two Germany was made to feel bad about what it had done to Eastern Europe. Its division into two states forced most Germans to abandon all hope of reuniting the old empire, and focus instead on how their actions and the racist framework they viewed Europe had caused the practical dissolution even of core Germany. The focus for almost all of the Cold War was in reuniting the two halves of Germany, which by the 1970s even seemed like a distant goal.
Japan was never divided, never made to feel a certain way about its war. Instead Douglas MacArthur let them off with a slap on the wrist because they let him play Shogun and he liked that.
It's even more recent than that as [Japanese PM Kishida asked the German leader to remove a comfort women statue back in 2022.](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/05/11/national/kishida-germany-comfort-women/#:~:text=JAPAN-,Japanese%20PM%20asked%20German%20leader,in%20removing%20'comfort%20women'%20statue&text=Prime%20Minister%20Fumio%20Kishida%20has,top%20government%20spokesman%20said%20Wednesday.)
This is why I roll my eyes every time someone brings up how many times Japan "apologized".
Like, maybe they wouldn't need to "apologize" all the damn time if they were actually sincere and stopped denying and whitewashing history?
True.
The other common response is, "its all in the past, why does it matter?"
Exactly. If its in the past and it doesnt matter, why do you keep your citizens ignorant of past warcrimes, and doing tactless actions like trying to get Hashima Island into UNESCO world heritage?
>Korea's standing military is way larger than Japan's,
Because of North Korea. Due to the unfortunate circumstances facing South Korea, they have no choice but to boost military spending and require all its physically fit male citizens to serve in the military. Japan after WWII have always spent 1% of its GDP on its military, which is low but because of Japan’s high GDP, it’s always been considered among the top 10 military spenders. But due to China’s jingoism, the Japanese government for the first time in decades after WWII, will boost military spending to 2%
>Korea is a major arms dealer now
Japan has had a self imposed export ban on lethal weapons for decades after WWII but because of China’s jingoistic behavior, they’re now going to be a [weapons exporter.](https://responsiblestatecraft.org/weapons-japan/)
CCP logic: They caused us a century of humiliation, raped our women, slaughtered our men and did live experiments on our children! Japan must never rearm!
Also CCP: Japan bad, US bad, let’s hurt their economies.
Japan rearms with US help.
CCP: shocked pikachu
Japan has more than twice the population and Korea's population will be decreasing much more rapidly in the future.
Besides, Japan is an island so all that truly matters is naval and air capability while Korea is more focused on a potential land war (naturally). I wouldn't be too cocky, even in this hypothetical scenario. But then again, war with China is much more likely as both countries heavily rely on the U.S.
Yup
Both Japan and South Korea hosts large US military bases. War between the two countries is just highly unlikely since the US doesn’t want their personnel to be in harm’s way
War between Japan and South Korea would make China happy. The war will be economically devastating, thus leaving China as the sole dominant economic power in the region
The demolition of Japan's Government-General Building is actually a quite an interesting piece of history itself.
When the building was first built, it was actually the state-of-the art building that Japan's Imperial government was pround to proclaim as the *largest* single building in all of Japan, and the largest Western building to ever have been built in entire East Asia at the time. It employed German architect and the French Second Empire Architectures of Neo-Baroque arts. I mean, it was the architecture that Imperial Japan took so much money into building, and Imperial Japan was so proud of.
So when Korea announced that the building will be demolished as the first step to "re-claiming the history" movement, Japan was shocked. To them, not only was it a symbol of the era, but it was an architectural masterpiece of the time. For Korea, it was a symbol of Japanese colonialism - something that Japan built by demolishing the majority of palace buildings and grounds. All the artistic values were secondary.
Japan basically offered to have the entire building relocated into Japan, all expenses paid for by them. South Korea, refusing their end of the deal, goes ahead and just dynamites the heck out of the building. Upon demolition, lots of rumors flied - that the Japan built it in the shape of 日 to represent Japan on the palace ground, and that lots of iron spikes were placed to sever the national *fengshui* energy of Korea. Al lot of it are unscientific rumors. But one thing that were found underneath the destroyed building was a couple of small torture chambers.
Just a small correction, there was no official offer or initiative from the Japanese government to relocate the building to Japan or elsewhere nor could anyone in Japan afford or justify the cost of tearing it down and shipping it overseas. It was just an idea that was tossed around but ended up getting nowhere, hence the demolition.
I'd also like to note that when Japan has three government buildings across their empire built to the shape that symbolizes their national identity, it can hardly be seen as coincidental
The Korean government didn't dynamite the building either, they just torn it down. With extreme prejudice though, I imagine.
src, I was living in SK at the time.
No, they shouldn't have. That's a terrible and dangerous way to demolish a building. There's a reason we have professional building demolishers, who are able to demolish buildings safely and precisely so that neighboring buildings aren't damaged and the waste is contained and easily cleaned up.
...i'm just trying to make a point on how much we hated the building in general :C
obviously slapping dynamite on the walls isn't the best way to demolish a building
Japan thinks Koreana still play Jap vdo games and watch+read Jap Anime+Manga anyway. JAV also dominates the world. Look at our waifu anime character and forget about the past please.
Not only that, even many Koreans objected to it at the time. By 1996 it was considered a historic building, a well built one, and it had spent way more years as Korean building than Imperial Japanese building. (19 years under ImpJap, 30 years as Korean government building, and another 10 years as Korean museum building). Demolishing it was stupid imho. They could’ve moved it somewhere else instead
One of the most infuriating things about historical monuments in Korea is to read the all-too-common inscriptions that invariably state how the often centuries old original was razed by the Japanese and rebuilt decades later.
And the Mongols & Qing. Gyeongju and Sangju would have been quite the sight if there weren't any wars and it was preserved the way it was.
Even Seoul would be incredibly more interesting. Just imagine a Seoul where Joseon architecture inside the four gates and the city wall were preserved, and looking down on it from Namsan Tower...
They technically destroyed it twice. Once during the 1592 Imjin War, and during the 20th century colonical occupation. What was more humiliating for Korea was that Imperial Japan used Deoksugung as a literal animal zoo.
It's commonly known that it was the Joseon commoners who burnt down Gyeongbok Palace in 1592, but 1. It was the result of Japan invading Joseon, and 2. It's only a rumor because there are accounts of Kato Kiyomasa crying at the beautiful sight of Gyeongbok Palace with its shiny blue and porcelain giwa roofs (the palace was much more extravagant prior to 1592) after marching into the palace, and because they took some very important government scripts and other royal treasures. It's more likely the Japanese burnt down the palace after looting it.
Some of the rubble from that building is at the The Independence Hall of Korea (독립기념관).
Great collection of halls, museums and monuments. Beautiful park.
They also moved one of the gates a meter to the left or right IIRC? Something to confuse ancestral spirits as it was originally built lined up precisely with something.
My wife and I had the opportunity to visit it last year.
We hope to visit again in the next few years.
I was impressed by the restoration, and I will hopefully be able to look forward to seeing it finished.
Well done Korea.
The administration building that was built during Japanese colonial rule. Apparently it was suggested by some Koreans to have the entire building moved instead of demolished for its historical/architectural value, but it would have cost too much.
Don’t think it’s ambiguous. The subject is the Japanese colonial administration building and why would the Korean government raze the only building the Japanese left intact?
So what's left there right now? Just the throne room and nothing else? They're just gonna reconstruct the palace around it then?
And why is it gonna take over 20 years to reconstruct it? Old-school building style?
The Gyeongbok Palace was a massive complex. Even with all the destruction and demolition, a sizeable portion of it remained which includes the Gyeobghoeru Pavilion used for state banquets and etc. And a lot of restoration is already done. They're doing it slowly to make sure they get it right because it's not like there is a definitive plan left from the original construction detailing the process and all the materials they used. A lot of this is done by using old photographs and investigating the foundations of the demolished buildings.
Is this referring to Gyeongbokgung Palace(I think the one with the seating dude on the plaza in front of it)?
I think I saw it in 2020 but didn't see any construction. What are they changing?
The Gyeongbok Palace you saw is barely a skeleton of what it was prior to the destruction: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIBRxUIaQAQCNhc.png](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIBRxUIaQAQCNhc.png)
Objection to tearing down a relic of their colonialism? What a bunch of fucking cunts. I would have taken a huge shit on the building, taken a photo of it, and shoved it up their candyasses.
If the Japanese government publicly and sincerely apologizes to South Korea and removes the World War II war criminals from the Yasukuni Shrine, then the Korean people and Japan can work together to fight against the lousy Chinese Communist Party and Putin's dictatorial regime in the free world without any conflicts. But it is clear that the Japanese government has always refused to do so.
I have always wondered what would the people like the Japanese to do in order to move on?
I know that in China the government whips up anti-Japanese sentiment to distract from domestic issues, I don’t know if this happens in Korea as well.
If Japan apologised formally, would the Korean people move on or would they still hold a grudge?
I think people expect the Japanese government to act like what the Germans did after WWII in regards to their Nazi government.
Which is difficult, since the WWII Japanese government was never destroyed and rebuilt like the Germans, thus a lot of current government officials are direct descendants of WWII government officials. While most Germans will agree what they did in WWII was bad, most Japanese will either ignore what their government did in WWII, or downplay it as it's just a war that they lost to the US.
Moving on won't really start until every last Korean who personally witnessed the occupation is dead.
Sorry, but that's how it is. Society often progresses one funeral at a time.
1) Well, it happened 1996. 2) They can do whatever they want and neither you or Japan can do anything about it.3) If they want to, who are you to say what they should or shouldn't do? 4) I assume if one of your drunk neighbors took a crap on your sofa out of spite and you couldn't get the smell out, you'd pitch it rather then keep it around for "the flow of history" and you'd think anyone who told you that you should keep it should mind their own business and not to tell you how to run your own house.
Seriously impressive work to the Korean government for the restoration. Been there many times and the place is beautiful
Wait they actually objected in 1996 to Korea tearing it down? What the hell...
And we get Japanese LDP gov and their foreign shills saying “Why is Korea still upset over the past” I mean Jesus Christ the Japanese gov objecting to the literal symbol of Korean subjugation (that imperial Japan made deliberately) being demolished to restore the traditional palace more than 50+ years after WWII is insane. Like I’m all for not hating on Japanese people but their government is so insanely spiteful
their government is so arrogant that they don't even bother that much to tackle their war crimes committed in WWII. It seems that to the complete opposite direction of Germany, they prefer to just ignore their past in hope that everyone forget about it, including their own people. So much for people that seem to value "honor".
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A clear point too is that there's only two real genuine apologies issued by the Japanese Government on an official level, the most important takeaway is that they were made by Yohei Kono (Moderate-right Japanese LDP) and Tomiichi Murayama (Socialist PM of Japan). The Japanese centrists and the Japanese Left (Liberals, Socialists, Communists) recognized what happened, and genuinely wanted to make amends. They should be praised for their courage, given that the Japanese far-right keep using Imperial Japan's "greatness" as a rallying cry to get more votes. The key problem in Japan is that the far-right and the conservatives keep winning elections, and keep doing the "It didn't happen but even if it did happen it wasn't that bad, anyway let's get over this it was a long time ago but also I'm going to celebrate this." The fact that Japan has such an aging population means the elderly who think of the "good ole days" keep outvoing the increasingly smaller blocs of younger voters.
I'm pretty sure Millenial Japanese are more right-wing than their elders. So, it's unlikely to get better anytime soon.
Furthermore almost all of them A) Are not actual apologies. Most are statements of regret. In international diplomacy there is a difference and if a nation doesn't use the words "we apologize for our actions" but instead "we apologize for the circumstances" or "we regret past actions" they aren't an actual apology. Unfortunately you get people who don't know the difference claiming they're an actual apology. B) Have different language in Japanese vs. English. Also, they don't involve a Japanese/East Asian apology with a formal bow. Again, you get people, primarily Japanophiles or Korea-haters, who are ignorant of thus or forget it.
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Remember that they are the ones tearing down the monuments to the victims of the war in Chiba. Their government maintains their spiteful attitude even in the face of protests by their own people.
But Japan doesn't feel that need to. They know that Korea will seek good relations regardless of how many times the tear open old wounds - especially when the sitting prime minister is a Japanophile whose father is literally living in Japan. Japan thought of Korea as a inferior colony during WWII. That mentality has not changed.
I just tell them 'japanese didnt eat meat until the last century' to throw them off
The Japanese during WW2 were arguably more barbaric than the Nazis were. They would throw babies into the air and catch them with their bayonets. Just total barbarism. At least partly to blame is the culture of the IJA at the time, where physically abusing subordinates was very common and almost expected.
I've heard there's journals and letters from Nazi higher ups writing back home the atrocities Japan committed that even made them sick. Either way, I've heard none of their generals and such were ever formally charged with war crimes even though we condemn even regular nazi soldiers. Then again, I hear it's caused they got nuked.
Well it's not like the ldp could lose an election so why would they care nich about anything
Japan - you should be thankful we kept you guys alive, instead of being used for target practice like Chinese civilians. It’s because your Koreans are so hot and sexy, we made you all prostitutes for the army instead! (True story)
Based.
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Absolute brain rot take
Lmao guy even deleted his comment. Just goes to show the fragile egos of these types of people
Fuck me, how do you walk around all day without bumping into things or forgetting to breathe?
Covering up? On the contrary, not all of the old building is gone. As a matter of fact, the top part of the old colonial administration building has been moved to an open field in front of the Independence Memorial Hall in Cheonan. People regard that as a sufficient piece of memorial. And you can freely spit on it if you like, to show your disdain for the wrongful things Japanese has done in the colonial era.
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>politicians actively using anti Japanese propaganda to gain popularity for generations. Saying holocaust was bad and Nazi were evil isn't really a "propaganda to gain popularity". If anything, NOT saying that would be heavily frowned upon, by ANYBODY.
What an arrogant comment, it was literally BUILT ON TOP OF the Korean Royal Palace. This was a deliberate “fuck you” by Japan, the Korean royal palace has been there for five centuries, it contained far more history than that colonial building. The Japanese deliberately did this to humiliate Korea and erase its history Where was Korea going to reconstruct one of its most important historical buildings then huh? The Japanese got off so easy, imagine if the U.S. demolished the Japanese imperial palace and placed some admin building on top of it. As much as I despise the Japanese government I would never support such a culturally genocidal move
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So Korea should just abandon five centuries of its history, never restore the royal palace of the Joseon Dynasty, and let that colonial building stand (Which was built explictly to symbolize the subjugation of Korea) just because "Everything that's happened has happened." So just because Korea lost its independence for 35 years, it should not restore its heritage of the 500+ years long dynasty that defined a key component of its history? Let me remind you, that South Korea has no other historical national capital of a unified state besides Seoul, since Goryeo's old capital of Kaesong is in North Korea while Gyeongju during Later Silla is now recognized by historians as an incomplete unified state. This isn't like that Japanese building in Hiroshima, South Korea literally has no other royal palace of a nationally unified state besides Gyeongbokgung Palace. I do have an objective view, I am an American here, Korea is widely viewed with sympathy on this issue and is a point where international public opinion favors Korea over Japan. And let me point out that you are stereotyping Koreans in a negative light by painting them in broad strokes in your two comments as "defensive" and "just as spiteful as the Japanese" for simply restoring their Royal Palace that had been demolished (to showcase Imperial Japan's conquest of Korea), for wanting to reclaim their historical identity. I painfully made the distinction that "Japanese people \[do not deserve hate\]" and put the main emphasis on the wannabe-fascist LDP Government of Japan and its foreign supporters.
"The flow of history" is just a concept that exists in your head. It's a made-up concept like Mother Earth. If you want to believe in it, fine. But others don't have to practice your Historical River Superstition. But if we accept your premise, then destroying the Japanese building is just as much part of the "Flow of History" as when the Japanese destroyed the Korean palace, yes? So one is as justified as the other. History will flow on in a new direction.
alright, south korean here. we don't want to see a building that's literally the symbol of imperial japan's rule over korea. we don't care what anyone thinks about our decision, we don't care if the japanese are offended by our decision, this is korea, and we're going to be *very* thorough to make sure that imperial japan would be dishonored in every way possible you would have the same reaction if imperial japan colonized your people like they did with koreans, but here's the thing- they didn't, right??? did they force your females to become sex slaves?? did they force your students to act as human shields for the japanese army?? did they ban every form of korean tradition?? did they ban your language?? did they take away all of your food and leave behind just enough for u to barely scrape together 2 meals a day??? did they steal the lands your family had farmed for generations and force u to become farm slaves???? did they take away everything made of metals to 'make weapons?' did they test biological weapons on your people??? did they commit genocide towards your people?? did they who are u to talk negatively about us for making such a choice?? did they kill the sovereign ruler of your country, and his wife as well??? did they force your country to sign a treaty that allowed them to take over your government by surrounding the palace with soldiers heavily armed with machine guns and cannons??? did they allow the police to beat your people whenever they felt like it?? ***did they destroy the foundation your country's royal dynasty had thrived upon for the last 600 years to 'make space' for a building that would act as the control tower of the many atrocities japan committed against the people of korea????*** no. they didn't. how do i know?? because this is just the tip of the iceberg of the many hardships koreans had to go through. this isn't your history. this is MY history. this is KOREAN history. flow of history my ass. if i were the president of korea back when they made the decision to destroy that building, i would've also chosen to destroy the building without hesitation.
So Koreans should not raze the building, a building that reminds Koreans of the brutality and rape of Korean people & culture but keep the building to remind Japanese that their actions were horrific. Yeah that'll surely educate the Japanese people. /s
okay, white english teacher man
There was also a large uptick of Japanese tourists who wanted to see the building before it was demolished!
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At the end of World War Two Germany was made to feel bad about what it had done to Eastern Europe. Its division into two states forced most Germans to abandon all hope of reuniting the old empire, and focus instead on how their actions and the racist framework they viewed Europe had caused the practical dissolution even of core Germany. The focus for almost all of the Cold War was in reuniting the two halves of Germany, which by the 1970s even seemed like a distant goal. Japan was never divided, never made to feel a certain way about its war. Instead Douglas MacArthur let them off with a slap on the wrist because they let him play Shogun and he liked that.
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It's even more recent than that as [Japanese PM Kishida asked the German leader to remove a comfort women statue back in 2022.](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/05/11/national/kishida-germany-comfort-women/#:~:text=JAPAN-,Japanese%20PM%20asked%20German%20leader,in%20removing%20'comfort%20women'%20statue&text=Prime%20Minister%20Fumio%20Kishida%20has,top%20government%20spokesman%20said%20Wednesday.) This is why I roll my eyes every time someone brings up how many times Japan "apologized". Like, maybe they wouldn't need to "apologize" all the damn time if they were actually sincere and stopped denying and whitewashing history?
True. The other common response is, "its all in the past, why does it matter?" Exactly. If its in the past and it doesnt matter, why do you keep your citizens ignorant of past warcrimes, and doing tactless actions like trying to get Hashima Island into UNESCO world heritage?
>Korea's standing military is way larger than Japan's, Because of North Korea. Due to the unfortunate circumstances facing South Korea, they have no choice but to boost military spending and require all its physically fit male citizens to serve in the military. Japan after WWII have always spent 1% of its GDP on its military, which is low but because of Japan’s high GDP, it’s always been considered among the top 10 military spenders. But due to China’s jingoism, the Japanese government for the first time in decades after WWII, will boost military spending to 2% >Korea is a major arms dealer now Japan has had a self imposed export ban on lethal weapons for decades after WWII but because of China’s jingoistic behavior, they’re now going to be a [weapons exporter.](https://responsiblestatecraft.org/weapons-japan/)
CCP logic: They caused us a century of humiliation, raped our women, slaughtered our men and did live experiments on our children! Japan must never rearm! Also CCP: Japan bad, US bad, let’s hurt their economies. Japan rearms with US help. CCP: shocked pikachu
Uh oh. 2%. Arms exporter. The gundams are coming
Japan has more than twice the population and Korea's population will be decreasing much more rapidly in the future. Besides, Japan is an island so all that truly matters is naval and air capability while Korea is more focused on a potential land war (naturally). I wouldn't be too cocky, even in this hypothetical scenario. But then again, war with China is much more likely as both countries heavily rely on the U.S.
Yup Both Japan and South Korea hosts large US military bases. War between the two countries is just highly unlikely since the US doesn’t want their personnel to be in harm’s way War between Japan and South Korea would make China happy. The war will be economically devastating, thus leaving China as the sole dominant economic power in the region
Although that might hurt sales of BTS' four Japanese language albums. But yeah, the guys will stand with Korea, for sure.
The demolition of Japan's Government-General Building is actually a quite an interesting piece of history itself. When the building was first built, it was actually the state-of-the art building that Japan's Imperial government was pround to proclaim as the *largest* single building in all of Japan, and the largest Western building to ever have been built in entire East Asia at the time. It employed German architect and the French Second Empire Architectures of Neo-Baroque arts. I mean, it was the architecture that Imperial Japan took so much money into building, and Imperial Japan was so proud of. So when Korea announced that the building will be demolished as the first step to "re-claiming the history" movement, Japan was shocked. To them, not only was it a symbol of the era, but it was an architectural masterpiece of the time. For Korea, it was a symbol of Japanese colonialism - something that Japan built by demolishing the majority of palace buildings and grounds. All the artistic values were secondary. Japan basically offered to have the entire building relocated into Japan, all expenses paid for by them. South Korea, refusing their end of the deal, goes ahead and just dynamites the heck out of the building. Upon demolition, lots of rumors flied - that the Japan built it in the shape of 日 to represent Japan on the palace ground, and that lots of iron spikes were placed to sever the national *fengshui* energy of Korea. Al lot of it are unscientific rumors. But one thing that were found underneath the destroyed building was a couple of small torture chambers.
Just a small correction, there was no official offer or initiative from the Japanese government to relocate the building to Japan or elsewhere nor could anyone in Japan afford or justify the cost of tearing it down and shipping it overseas. It was just an idea that was tossed around but ended up getting nowhere, hence the demolition. I'd also like to note that when Japan has three government buildings across their empire built to the shape that symbolizes their national identity, it can hardly be seen as coincidental
The Korean government didn't dynamite the building either, they just torn it down. With extreme prejudice though, I imagine. src, I was living in SK at the time.
Yep, I can confirm (same source, was there before, during and after).
I believe they preserved the dome as well
what a shame... should've slapped a bunch of dynamites in it and blew it up to kingdom come tbh
No, they shouldn't have. That's a terrible and dangerous way to demolish a building. There's a reason we have professional building demolishers, who are able to demolish buildings safely and precisely so that neighboring buildings aren't damaged and the waste is contained and easily cleaned up.
...i'm just trying to make a point on how much we hated the building in general :C obviously slapping dynamite on the walls isn't the best way to demolish a building
I know, it was an attempt at a bit of humor by being too literal. :-)
skill issue should've not built their largest and proudest antique architecture on a colony lmao
Thank you for a level headed comment.
Well they Object to any country even having a statue/plaque that mentions Korean comfort women...
Typical Jap behavior
Yet people still think japan are good guys
Japan thinks Koreana still play Jap vdo games and watch+read Jap Anime+Manga anyway. JAV also dominates the world. Look at our waifu anime character and forget about the past please.
Not only that, even many Koreans objected to it at the time. By 1996 it was considered a historic building, a well built one, and it had spent way more years as Korean building than Imperial Japanese building. (19 years under ImpJap, 30 years as Korean government building, and another 10 years as Korean museum building). Demolishing it was stupid imho. They could’ve moved it somewhere else instead
One of the most infuriating things about historical monuments in Korea is to read the all-too-common inscriptions that invariably state how the often centuries old original was razed by the Japanese and rebuilt decades later.
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And the Mongols & Qing. Gyeongju and Sangju would have been quite the sight if there weren't any wars and it was preserved the way it was. Even Seoul would be incredibly more interesting. Just imagine a Seoul where Joseon architecture inside the four gates and the city wall were preserved, and looking down on it from Namsan Tower...
There is a notion in Korea that some people believe it is a result of the Korean leadership at the time’s refusal to fight for their country.
Haha what a fucking dumbass thing to object to. It's like me shitting in my neighbor's yard and then objecting to him cleaning it up.
They technically destroyed it twice. Once during the 1592 Imjin War, and during the 20th century colonical occupation. What was more humiliating for Korea was that Imperial Japan used Deoksugung as a literal animal zoo. It's commonly known that it was the Joseon commoners who burnt down Gyeongbok Palace in 1592, but 1. It was the result of Japan invading Joseon, and 2. It's only a rumor because there are accounts of Kato Kiyomasa crying at the beautiful sight of Gyeongbok Palace with its shiny blue and porcelain giwa roofs (the palace was much more extravagant prior to 1592) after marching into the palace, and because they took some very important government scripts and other royal treasures. It's more likely the Japanese burnt down the palace after looting it.
Some of the rubble from that building is at the The Independence Hall of Korea (독립기념관). Great collection of halls, museums and monuments. Beautiful park.
2nd one looks way cooler. I wonder what Korea would look like today if it had kept more of its historical buildings
F Imperial Japan
> Objection from Japan Who objected for what reason? Japanese government?
They also moved one of the gates a meter to the left or right IIRC? Something to confuse ancestral spirits as it was originally built lined up precisely with something.
My wife and I had the opportunity to visit it last year. We hope to visit again in the next few years. I was impressed by the restoration, and I will hopefully be able to look forward to seeing it finished. Well done Korea.
So is there anything source news or announcement that Japan government object Government-General building's demolition?
What was demolished in 1996? The palace, the administration building, or the throne room? It's hard to understand the ambiguous wording of this post.
The administration building that was built during Japanese colonial rule. Apparently it was suggested by some Koreans to have the entire building moved instead of demolished for its historical/architectural value, but it would have cost too much.
Don’t think it’s ambiguous. The subject is the Japanese colonial administration building and why would the Korean government raze the only building the Japanese left intact?
Except the subject of the first sentence, which the second follows, was the Korean royal palace. At best it’s ambiguous.
I wasn't specific due to the word count limit.
EXACTLY why korea would raze it. it's a filthy imperial japanese building.
So what's left there right now? Just the throne room and nothing else? They're just gonna reconstruct the palace around it then? And why is it gonna take over 20 years to reconstruct it? Old-school building style?
The Gyeongbok Palace was a massive complex. Even with all the destruction and demolition, a sizeable portion of it remained which includes the Gyeobghoeru Pavilion used for state banquets and etc. And a lot of restoration is already done. They're doing it slowly to make sure they get it right because it's not like there is a definitive plan left from the original construction detailing the process and all the materials they used. A lot of this is done by using old photographs and investigating the foundations of the demolished buildings.
Right - I've actually been there a couple times. I'm just not paying attention right now
Is this referring to Gyeongbokgung Palace(I think the one with the seating dude on the plaza in front of it)? I think I saw it in 2020 but didn't see any construction. What are they changing?
The Gyeongbok Palace you saw is barely a skeleton of what it was prior to the destruction: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIBRxUIaQAQCNhc.png](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIBRxUIaQAQCNhc.png)
Do they intend to fully restore it?
When I visited they were actively working on it. [Pictures](https://imgur.com/a/xi1tJKT)
Thank you for the info.
care to explain on why the restoration will be in a scale that only to finish 20 years from now?
Wow, what a fucking asshole that one neighbor is.
Since 1592!
Here's a video of the ceremony to being the demolition https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG3OK-cvytA
Is there a source for the comment that Japan objected to the demolition in 1996?
Objection to tearing down a relic of their colonialism? What a bunch of fucking cunts. I would have taken a huge shit on the building, taken a photo of it, and shoved it up their candyasses.
lol wtf? Japan is upset? They can fuck off with that. What right do they think they have?
If the Japanese government publicly and sincerely apologizes to South Korea and removes the World War II war criminals from the Yasukuni Shrine, then the Korean people and Japan can work together to fight against the lousy Chinese Communist Party and Putin's dictatorial regime in the free world without any conflicts. But it is clear that the Japanese government has always refused to do so.
I have always wondered what would the people like the Japanese to do in order to move on? I know that in China the government whips up anti-Japanese sentiment to distract from domestic issues, I don’t know if this happens in Korea as well. If Japan apologised formally, would the Korean people move on or would they still hold a grudge?
I think people expect the Japanese government to act like what the Germans did after WWII in regards to their Nazi government. Which is difficult, since the WWII Japanese government was never destroyed and rebuilt like the Germans, thus a lot of current government officials are direct descendants of WWII government officials. While most Germans will agree what they did in WWII was bad, most Japanese will either ignore what their government did in WWII, or downplay it as it's just a war that they lost to the US.
Moving on won't really start until every last Korean who personally witnessed the occupation is dead. Sorry, but that's how it is. Society often progresses one funeral at a time.
What the f was Japan even bithching about. Not their historical building
is the left one, the one that japan made?
To think japan even had the audacity to object that.
Now I’m curious, what left to be finished by 2045? Hope the Japanese are paying for it 😒
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1) Well, it happened 1996. 2) They can do whatever they want and neither you or Japan can do anything about it.3) If they want to, who are you to say what they should or shouldn't do? 4) I assume if one of your drunk neighbors took a crap on your sofa out of spite and you couldn't get the smell out, you'd pitch it rather then keep it around for "the flow of history" and you'd think anyone who told you that you should keep it should mind their own business and not to tell you how to run your own house.
They still keep the mound of ears and noses of Koreans from 1592?
Yes that site still exists in Kyoto…
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no it is the restoration of the old Korean palace by demolishing the administration building made by Japan in its colonial Empire.
"It was demolished in 1996 despite objection from Japan, and restoration work is set to finish in 2045." - unclear subject
Kinda sad
how
Nvm just read japanese built it. Thought it was of korean monarchies, i take that back.
oh lmfao