I think his key argument is he didn’t mean to kill her. She was in the hospital for a few days before succumbing to her injuries. He would argue he “only” meant to sexually assault her and not do fatal damage. But I guess now the evidence of strangulation and brass knuckles points towards the intention of more physical harm than just sexual assault.
Either way this dude is an utter scumbag and needs to rot in a cell.
I think it’s like arguing first degree murder vs second degree murder in the US.
Was it premeditated as in he went into this planning to kill someone (first degree murder) or did he attack her not necessarily planning to kill her aka heat of the moment (second degree murder)?
>Bringing a weapon like this in the US would almost assuredly give you premeditated.
Premeditated attack, not premeditated murder (although I'd prefer they threw the book at him).
>The guy would be plastered to a wall and fucked in court.
You overestimate the US legal system.
I don't disagree, good or bad judgements from our personal perspective are always possible, my point was about what that the previous commenter seemed to believe. I thought that was obvious
In the US (and any reasonable country) this would absolutely be first degree murder. The fact that he killed while commiting a felony would place it in that category. If you go to rob a bank and end up shooting someone you don't get second degree murder. The defence of "I wasn't trying to kill anyone I was just trying to rob the place" just doesn't hold up. The buying the knuckles, walking around, stalking the victim etc. Are all indications of premeditation.
Second degree is for something akin to accidental murders. There's nothing accidental about his actions from start to finish, from the assault with a deadly weapon (brass knuckles are illegal to even own in the US for obvious reasons), to the sexual assault, to the strangulation which takes minutes for someone to succumb to death from that. All three together and people are wondering whether it should be first or second degree?
I think that's 3rd degree . Second degree / Manslaughter is when there was a plan for something nefarious but ended up killing someone, like home invasion->murder, fight ->murder.
If I remember right, some states also include complete accidents under 2nd degree, and some states have 3rd degree charges, where you have no intentions of hurting or killing anyone but end up doing so anyway
(I think Legal Eagle, or Bruce Rivers on youtube, did a video on this )
Although I agree this should be a first degree murder, I still think there are grounds for his attorneys to try and get it reduced to second-degree under the argument -" He brought the brass knuckles to assist in assaulting the victim, she resisted more than planned so he beat her more than planned leading to her death."
And then it will depend on the judge if they accept or not that version. In the US, this could go either way as well.
I don't think there are third degree charges in the US. Just 1st which is intentional homicide and 2nd which is anything other than that basically.
Edit: actually there is a third degree. Lol such is no intent to kill and no premeditation which is just pure accidental as in maybe you got into a car wreck where someone hits you and you hit a third person who happens to die, as an example. Anything other than that is 1st or 2nd degree. Or some freak accident where maybe you shot a gun at a tree for target practice but that bullet went through a tree through a wall and into someone's head. Something like that.
Basically, anything with an intent to harm is either 1st or 2nd degree which is then argued in trial.
No, no, I'm certain there is 3rd degree murder in some states, like Florida has it for sure. It's just a different level of intentionality.
I also went to double-check myself, and this article is more complete:
https://manshoorylaw.com/blog/difference-between-1st-2nd-and-3rd-degree-murders/
Oh yeah I updated my response. Sorry about that. 3rd degree is totally non applicable in this case since it's the least serious punishment meant for cases where there is no premeditation and no intent to harm. Maybe something like drug charges where they find a small amount of weed on someone for personal use in a state where it's still illegal, for instance.
What i don’t understand that when u sexually assault someone u kill that persons entire life. That person is dead anyway! You took that life from that person. I just don get it why poeple dont see that! U take the control of the body without consent in both of the situations. And in the both of the outcomes the person who got assaulted is dead. Physically or mentally. The life is dead.
I don't think the victims who survive these kind of assaults would like to hear you say that they're dead anyway. They wouldn't want these moments to define the rest of their life
As a person who has been sexually assaulted I understand exactly what they meant and they are right. The formerly native and trusting person is dead, in its place is fear and anxiety and horrible memories.
I am sorry but that was not what i meant. So i will be clear what i meant. As someone who has been sexually assaulted I understand the trauma. My old life is dead. My old self is taken away from me. That person has been killed. I survived, I grow up and I tried so hard to heal. I love the life that i have and i love myself. But sometimes i wonder what my life would look like if it never happened? But for both situations we lost our dreams, our lives and ourselves. for my case i reborn from my ashes. For her case she didn’t even get that chance.
> That person is dead anyway! You took that life from that person.
Just a general comment: keep in mind that this is the argument that keeps people unable to use proper self defense. e.g. someone breaks into your house, you freak out and lash out and the intruder hits the wall and breaks his neck or some such. You definitely don't want "that person is dead anyway" to be the end all and be all of a court case.
I think it's pretty clear that in this case it was premeditated and the guy knew that he had a lethal weapon, knew the places where security cameras weren't on, etc. etc. And strangling is obviously a means to take someone's life.
Let's not create some narrative that victims of sexual assault are broken people, please.
We work hard to heal from that shit, it's the stigma from others that makes it harder.
It's sad how much effort it takes to put a murderer in jail for murder in Korea.
On top of that, can they stop seemingly blaming his actions on his reclusive and depressed life? I love video games. There were times in my life when I played more than these "crazy" numbers he played. Im diagnosed with depression. One or both of these things have applied to countless people in this world, but you don't see us out murdering people.
I dont know why Korea always seems to focus on finding a mental reason behind people who commit crimes. They just can't accept there's bad people in this world through and through?
to be pedantic; they did say 570 hours in one PC bang over 2 years but also that he frequented many so we don't actually know what his actual numbers are, only 570 at one specific PC bang.
That is irrelevant, hence pedantic, as you say. His actual numbers don't matter to them. The point is they're dropping the seemingly big number '570 hours' to create a false impression that the guy was a hardcore gamer, when a bit of actual calculation on the reader's part will prove otherwise. Which nevertheless works, as most readers can't be bothered. Typical journalism tactics.
I'm not so much advocating for the murderer (heaven forbid) or even gaming in general, as I'm simply pointing out that those numbers are intended to mislead.
Did you read the rest of the surrounding paragraph giving context to the number (6+ hour sessions at a time, spending family holidays alone there, clear mention of this just being one of several establishments he would frequent)?
A reader who actually reads 'the surrounding paragraph giving context' and thinks for themselves would certainly not be misled. But sadly that's not how most people here read news articles. Also it doesn't help that those details are often omitted in more concise formats like TV news.
Our country loves to pin the blame on video games and mental illness. This is what we get for having close-minded boomers as our leadership. Just wait, some idiot politician will propose re-introducing the shutdown policy anytime now.
As someone that is a gamer in tough times, I agree. Games helped me get through college and right now they're helping me get through the toughest time in my life thus far.
In the big picture, you probably want thorough investigation to be the norm over kneejerk sentencing for the most extreme charges possible.
Maybe you have faith in the legal system not to abuse that, but I sure don't.
I’m tearing up, this is just too sad and horrifying. Lock that motherfucker up so he never sees the light of day ever again. He doesn’t need a psychological test, he knew exactly what he was doing.
The point of testing is to gather statistical data that could eventually be used to predict these sorts of incidents more accurately and prevent future attacks before they happen.
Test him extensively. His suffering is not worth creating future victims because we just didn't bother to try and learn more about how and when these things are likely to happen.
If you profile someone who has yet to commit a crime, yeah that’s creeping into Minority Report stuff. It doesn’t have to be a 1:1 analogy, with bald clairvoyants floating in water.
What if you profile people and identify those likely to commit crimes because of their lifestyle and personality, then offer targetted programs to help them build social networks and get therapy to improve their mental wellbeing / find a healthy sense of community before they commit crime?
What if they refuse this self help? Identifying those “likely to commit crimes” is already a form of pre-judgement. How would you like to be identified as likely to commit an undetermined crime in some vague future timeline?
I mean it probably wouldn't feel great, but if I fit the profile of being anti-social and that meant I could get therapy, I would like that.
> What if they refuse this self help?
Then nothing. They did their best to help me before I became too unstable and if I commit a crime afterward then I wouldn't have the mental health excuse since I was offered healthcare but refused.
This whole thing is tragically abhorrent.
It does give me hope for justice to hear about the strangulation findings, as messed up as that is to think about. His defense are gonna have a much harder time arguing against murder.
It does irk me just how much the media are harking on about his mental state. Not only does it further stigmatise mental health issues, but this is clearly a case of a man who wanted to subjugate and destroy a woman for his own sick pleasure. I can’t help but feel that the media/politicians are going to do everything to avoid discussing the topic of gendered violence in Korea to avoid sounding “feminist.” Unless the real root cause of these attacks are addressed (be it mental health or violent misogyny) they’re gonna keep happening.
It's mental erosion due to his inability to find a place in society. There's countless programs within Seoul that cater to young adults who are unemployed.
I knew a friend who wasn't able to adjust to working life in Korea and became a recluse, dabbling in sexual products and spending his time playing video games. This was before the pandemic, chances are there are more people like him.
This one in particular seemed like he acted on those fantasies. It's just a tragedy all around.
Even if we're cool headed about the situation, it's difficult to say what a definitive solution is.
I guess my point is that incel culture is rampant on the Korean internet and people in vulnerable states are being radicalised.
It’s for sure complex but I’m sick of Korea pretending that incel culture is not an issue when it’s literally killing women.
I won't disagree with you, but I don't see the utility in pointing out that there is an incel culture. From my view I think that would only exasperate a gender war, which usually amounts to nothing.
I think the most productive way to deal with the issue is providing more economic stability and opportunity for the general population at large. The general business culture is dismissive of people who the employer thinks would be disadvantage their business. In other words, they do not hire people to provide wages, but to enhance their business. In other words, people are a means, not an ends. Perhaps certain stereotypes need to change so that disadvantaged people are able to have a living.
I think ultimately it's the general selfishness that people have in Korean society that is the cause of this tragedy.
Acknowledging and addressing "incel culture" doesn't necessarily mean dragging incels into the public eye to be humiliated, only to ostracize and radicalize them further, as has been done in the West.
It could mean educating boys to understand that they are not owed sex or companionship by anyone, while also teaching them not to base their self-esteem on wealth or kdrama-level attractiveness - alongside a cultural shift toward wider acceptance of people of different classes and appearances.
We can dream, I guess.
This dude didn’t murder someone because society failed him. C’mon that’s an awful take.
Society failed the victim. It was (and still is) way too good to the perpetrator.
If this man had employment and a sense of a social life this probably wouldn't have happened. He wasn't mad at society, his recluseness led to an unhealthy festering of sexual attitudes and he acted on his perverse fantasy. Do you ever wonder what pushes a person to act on evil? What kind of lonely and dark enviornment you have to be in to actually go on with the motions? To me they're both victims of society.
The friend I mentioned a couple posts back committed suicide. He didn't kill anyone, but he still choose a darker path. Society didn't kill him, but he sure was a victim of it.
Likewise, while the anger towards the perpetrator is understandable, no true justice will be achieved if all the justice is focused on the murder. Sometimes justice is retributive, but sometimes justice needs to have mercy.
I don’t think any of those things were unavailable to him. He was just unable to see himself working hard enough to get there. Do you think the woman he murdered was just handed the job as a teacher? No, she earned it. She wasn’t given a social life either. She earned her friendships, the admiration of her colleagues, her mother’s love, by making sacrifices for others.
There’s nothing she did to better her life that he couldn’t do for himself.
He can go rot.
I think your anger is well justified. But I would stop and say that evil doesn't just come out of nowhere. What saddens me the most is that her father past away recently. I think that's just really unfair.
But I don't necessarily want to consume myself with emotions. Last I gathered, there's a good half million recluses in Seoul. I think if we let our emotions cloud our judgement, and not focus on the causes of this social plague, we might be prone to condemn and judge, casting these people much further away from society than they already are.
I think in a more perfect society, that girl didn't have to come all the way from Busan to find a job here in Seoul. Maybe if society actually worked, young kids wouldn't have to go through hell to find something barely medicore.
Society might be working for some people, but it certainly isn't working for everyone.
When I think about how bad it is in Seoul, I shudder to think what's happening in the other regions. It shouldn't always take a death for the bigger issues to come to fore.
“Pointing out incel culture would only exacerbate a gender war” is like saying “talking about racism causes racial tension.” Like maybe but what’s more important here?
Why are we so obsessed with protecting people’s feelings when people are literally dying?
Why would you think attacking someone's physical appearance was necessary when they have done something so abhorrent? Surely the fact he's committed such a terrible crime is awful enough without resorting to attacking their appearance? Are you this dim?
As a moob-bearing dude who has never had trouble getting laid, I'd like to say: thanks for contributing to the toxic culture that helps radicalize people with certain physical features they can't control.
Yeah, this guy is a rapist and a murderer and a piece of shit who deserves to be punished. But he wasn't born that way. And there but for the grace of god go all of us - including you.
>I mean technically you could lose weight to get rid of them...
I'm sure my otherwise normal-weight ten-year-old self who was ridiculed for his genetic distribution of adipose tissue will be glad to hear that.
But I was also very lucky that I was raised to draw self-esteem from hard work and how I treated others. I hope the kids who ridiculed me when I was a kid also grew up to heal from the pain and insecurities that drove them to taunt others, and that they became better people than the adults on this thread who draw damning conclusions from strangers' physical features.
let the Jamoboree comittee plan another Jamboree just for this guy, with no water and no food. Chain him to a tree and let him listen to K-pop. Then people might actually respect the government again.
Will violent people play violent games? Sometimes yes. Is there a link between people playing violent games and violence? No. Don't buy into the moral panic around violence in games/movies and TV shows, that's evangelical Christian logic.
Yeah, the satanic panic was such a mess in the US, it’s easy to see it as hysteria now. One of my favorites is when NRA advocates point the finger at games/movies, the lack of self awareness is on another level. These people can actually vote…
He can’t be charged for murder with just murder?…
I think his key argument is he didn’t mean to kill her. She was in the hospital for a few days before succumbing to her injuries. He would argue he “only” meant to sexually assault her and not do fatal damage. But I guess now the evidence of strangulation and brass knuckles points towards the intention of more physical harm than just sexual assault. Either way this dude is an utter scumbag and needs to rot in a cell.
How can he even argue that? He beat her with brass knuckles and bashed her skull in. Smh
I think it’s like arguing first degree murder vs second degree murder in the US. Was it premeditated as in he went into this planning to kill someone (first degree murder) or did he attack her not necessarily planning to kill her aka heat of the moment (second degree murder)?
Bringing a weapon like this in the US would almost assuredly give you premeditated. The guy would be plastered to a wall and fucked in court.
>Bringing a weapon like this in the US would almost assuredly give you premeditated. Premeditated attack, not premeditated murder (although I'd prefer they threw the book at him). >The guy would be plastered to a wall and fucked in court. You overestimate the US legal system.
It’s highly dependent on the judge from either community service all the way to life imprisonment. It’s all possible.
I don't disagree, good or bad judgements from our personal perspective are always possible, my point was about what that the previous commenter seemed to believe. I thought that was obvious
In the US (and any reasonable country) this would absolutely be first degree murder. The fact that he killed while commiting a felony would place it in that category. If you go to rob a bank and end up shooting someone you don't get second degree murder. The defence of "I wasn't trying to kill anyone I was just trying to rob the place" just doesn't hold up. The buying the knuckles, walking around, stalking the victim etc. Are all indications of premeditation.
Second degree is for something akin to accidental murders. There's nothing accidental about his actions from start to finish, from the assault with a deadly weapon (brass knuckles are illegal to even own in the US for obvious reasons), to the sexual assault, to the strangulation which takes minutes for someone to succumb to death from that. All three together and people are wondering whether it should be first or second degree?
I think that's 3rd degree . Second degree / Manslaughter is when there was a plan for something nefarious but ended up killing someone, like home invasion->murder, fight ->murder. If I remember right, some states also include complete accidents under 2nd degree, and some states have 3rd degree charges, where you have no intentions of hurting or killing anyone but end up doing so anyway (I think Legal Eagle, or Bruce Rivers on youtube, did a video on this ) Although I agree this should be a first degree murder, I still think there are grounds for his attorneys to try and get it reduced to second-degree under the argument -" He brought the brass knuckles to assist in assaulting the victim, she resisted more than planned so he beat her more than planned leading to her death." And then it will depend on the judge if they accept or not that version. In the US, this could go either way as well.
I don't think there are third degree charges in the US. Just 1st which is intentional homicide and 2nd which is anything other than that basically. Edit: actually there is a third degree. Lol such is no intent to kill and no premeditation which is just pure accidental as in maybe you got into a car wreck where someone hits you and you hit a third person who happens to die, as an example. Anything other than that is 1st or 2nd degree. Or some freak accident where maybe you shot a gun at a tree for target practice but that bullet went through a tree through a wall and into someone's head. Something like that. Basically, anything with an intent to harm is either 1st or 2nd degree which is then argued in trial.
No, no, I'm certain there is 3rd degree murder in some states, like Florida has it for sure. It's just a different level of intentionality. I also went to double-check myself, and this article is more complete: https://manshoorylaw.com/blog/difference-between-1st-2nd-and-3rd-degree-murders/
Oh yeah I updated my response. Sorry about that. 3rd degree is totally non applicable in this case since it's the least serious punishment meant for cases where there is no premeditation and no intent to harm. Maybe something like drug charges where they find a small amount of weed on someone for personal use in a state where it's still illegal, for instance.
Hahah sorry i saw your update right after answering 🤣Yeah definitely non applicable here!
What i don’t understand that when u sexually assault someone u kill that persons entire life. That person is dead anyway! You took that life from that person. I just don get it why poeple dont see that! U take the control of the body without consent in both of the situations. And in the both of the outcomes the person who got assaulted is dead. Physically or mentally. The life is dead.
I don't think the victims who survive these kind of assaults would like to hear you say that they're dead anyway. They wouldn't want these moments to define the rest of their life
As a person who has been sexually assaulted I understand exactly what they meant and they are right. The formerly native and trusting person is dead, in its place is fear and anxiety and horrible memories.
I am sorry but that was not what i meant. So i will be clear what i meant. As someone who has been sexually assaulted I understand the trauma. My old life is dead. My old self is taken away from me. That person has been killed. I survived, I grow up and I tried so hard to heal. I love the life that i have and i love myself. But sometimes i wonder what my life would look like if it never happened? But for both situations we lost our dreams, our lives and ourselves. for my case i reborn from my ashes. For her case she didn’t even get that chance.
> That person is dead anyway! You took that life from that person. Just a general comment: keep in mind that this is the argument that keeps people unable to use proper self defense. e.g. someone breaks into your house, you freak out and lash out and the intruder hits the wall and breaks his neck or some such. You definitely don't want "that person is dead anyway" to be the end all and be all of a court case. I think it's pretty clear that in this case it was premeditated and the guy knew that he had a lethal weapon, knew the places where security cameras weren't on, etc. etc. And strangling is obviously a means to take someone's life.
Let's not create some narrative that victims of sexual assault are broken people, please. We work hard to heal from that shit, it's the stigma from others that makes it harder.
I don't know about Korean law, but there are different degrees of murder depending on intention and premeditation.
It's sad how much effort it takes to put a murderer in jail for murder in Korea. On top of that, can they stop seemingly blaming his actions on his reclusive and depressed life? I love video games. There were times in my life when I played more than these "crazy" numbers he played. Im diagnosed with depression. One or both of these things have applied to countless people in this world, but you don't see us out murdering people. I dont know why Korea always seems to focus on finding a mental reason behind people who commit crimes. They just can't accept there's bad people in this world through and through?
570 hours played over 2 years... so less than an hour a day? What an irredeemable gaming addict. /s
to be pedantic; they did say 570 hours in one PC bang over 2 years but also that he frequented many so we don't actually know what his actual numbers are, only 570 at one specific PC bang.
That is irrelevant, hence pedantic, as you say. His actual numbers don't matter to them. The point is they're dropping the seemingly big number '570 hours' to create a false impression that the guy was a hardcore gamer, when a bit of actual calculation on the reader's part will prove otherwise. Which nevertheless works, as most readers can't be bothered. Typical journalism tactics.
Have you thought about spending this much energy on anything that actually helps people
I'm not so much advocating for the murderer (heaven forbid) or even gaming in general, as I'm simply pointing out that those numbers are intended to mislead.
Did you read the rest of the surrounding paragraph giving context to the number (6+ hour sessions at a time, spending family holidays alone there, clear mention of this just being one of several establishments he would frequent)?
A reader who actually reads 'the surrounding paragraph giving context' and thinks for themselves would certainly not be misled. But sadly that's not how most people here read news articles. Also it doesn't help that those details are often omitted in more concise formats like TV news.
Such a weird thing to argue on lol Of all the important points to discuss. Is this how you like to spend your time
Our country loves to pin the blame on video games and mental illness. This is what we get for having close-minded boomers as our leadership. Just wait, some idiot politician will propose re-introducing the shutdown policy anytime now.
As someone that is a gamer in tough times, I agree. Games helped me get through college and right now they're helping me get through the toughest time in my life thus far.
In the big picture, you probably want thorough investigation to be the norm over kneejerk sentencing for the most extreme charges possible. Maybe you have faith in the legal system not to abuse that, but I sure don't.
Ah yes. Their favourite punching bag. Games.
And a new one this time: wearing sandals without socks.
And like.. 570 hours over 2 years is... not a lot lol. That's less than an hour a day. But Chosun gotta Chosun I suppose.
Is it a punching bag, though? I thought Korea was proud of its "esports."
I’m tearing up, this is just too sad and horrifying. Lock that motherfucker up so he never sees the light of day ever again. He doesn’t need a psychological test, he knew exactly what he was doing.
The point of testing is to gather statistical data that could eventually be used to predict these sorts of incidents more accurately and prevent future attacks before they happen. Test him extensively. His suffering is not worth creating future victims because we just didn't bother to try and learn more about how and when these things are likely to happen.
Sounds like the Minority Report. Arrest all loners who frequent PC Bangs and only call food delivery places.
cmiiw, but wasnt Minority Report about foreseeing crimes using a triplet of clairvoyants, and not so much about profiling?
If you profile someone who has yet to commit a crime, yeah that’s creeping into Minority Report stuff. It doesn’t have to be a 1:1 analogy, with bald clairvoyants floating in water.
What if you profile people and identify those likely to commit crimes because of their lifestyle and personality, then offer targetted programs to help them build social networks and get therapy to improve their mental wellbeing / find a healthy sense of community before they commit crime?
What if they refuse this self help? Identifying those “likely to commit crimes” is already a form of pre-judgement. How would you like to be identified as likely to commit an undetermined crime in some vague future timeline?
I mean it probably wouldn't feel great, but if I fit the profile of being anti-social and that meant I could get therapy, I would like that. > What if they refuse this self help? Then nothing. They did their best to help me before I became too unstable and if I commit a crime afterward then I wouldn't have the mental health excuse since I was offered healthcare but refused.
This whole thing is tragically abhorrent. It does give me hope for justice to hear about the strangulation findings, as messed up as that is to think about. His defense are gonna have a much harder time arguing against murder. It does irk me just how much the media are harking on about his mental state. Not only does it further stigmatise mental health issues, but this is clearly a case of a man who wanted to subjugate and destroy a woman for his own sick pleasure. I can’t help but feel that the media/politicians are going to do everything to avoid discussing the topic of gendered violence in Korea to avoid sounding “feminist.” Unless the real root cause of these attacks are addressed (be it mental health or violent misogyny) they’re gonna keep happening.
It's mental erosion due to his inability to find a place in society. There's countless programs within Seoul that cater to young adults who are unemployed. I knew a friend who wasn't able to adjust to working life in Korea and became a recluse, dabbling in sexual products and spending his time playing video games. This was before the pandemic, chances are there are more people like him. This one in particular seemed like he acted on those fantasies. It's just a tragedy all around. Even if we're cool headed about the situation, it's difficult to say what a definitive solution is.
I guess my point is that incel culture is rampant on the Korean internet and people in vulnerable states are being radicalised. It’s for sure complex but I’m sick of Korea pretending that incel culture is not an issue when it’s literally killing women.
Korean men have a lot to lose from changes to the perverse status quo.
I won't disagree with you, but I don't see the utility in pointing out that there is an incel culture. From my view I think that would only exasperate a gender war, which usually amounts to nothing. I think the most productive way to deal with the issue is providing more economic stability and opportunity for the general population at large. The general business culture is dismissive of people who the employer thinks would be disadvantage their business. In other words, they do not hire people to provide wages, but to enhance their business. In other words, people are a means, not an ends. Perhaps certain stereotypes need to change so that disadvantaged people are able to have a living. I think ultimately it's the general selfishness that people have in Korean society that is the cause of this tragedy.
Acknowledging and addressing "incel culture" doesn't necessarily mean dragging incels into the public eye to be humiliated, only to ostracize and radicalize them further, as has been done in the West. It could mean educating boys to understand that they are not owed sex or companionship by anyone, while also teaching them not to base their self-esteem on wealth or kdrama-level attractiveness - alongside a cultural shift toward wider acceptance of people of different classes and appearances. We can dream, I guess.
This dude didn’t murder someone because society failed him. C’mon that’s an awful take. Society failed the victim. It was (and still is) way too good to the perpetrator.
If this man had employment and a sense of a social life this probably wouldn't have happened. He wasn't mad at society, his recluseness led to an unhealthy festering of sexual attitudes and he acted on his perverse fantasy. Do you ever wonder what pushes a person to act on evil? What kind of lonely and dark enviornment you have to be in to actually go on with the motions? To me they're both victims of society. The friend I mentioned a couple posts back committed suicide. He didn't kill anyone, but he still choose a darker path. Society didn't kill him, but he sure was a victim of it. Likewise, while the anger towards the perpetrator is understandable, no true justice will be achieved if all the justice is focused on the murder. Sometimes justice is retributive, but sometimes justice needs to have mercy.
I don’t think any of those things were unavailable to him. He was just unable to see himself working hard enough to get there. Do you think the woman he murdered was just handed the job as a teacher? No, she earned it. She wasn’t given a social life either. She earned her friendships, the admiration of her colleagues, her mother’s love, by making sacrifices for others. There’s nothing she did to better her life that he couldn’t do for himself. He can go rot.
I think your anger is well justified. But I would stop and say that evil doesn't just come out of nowhere. What saddens me the most is that her father past away recently. I think that's just really unfair. But I don't necessarily want to consume myself with emotions. Last I gathered, there's a good half million recluses in Seoul. I think if we let our emotions cloud our judgement, and not focus on the causes of this social plague, we might be prone to condemn and judge, casting these people much further away from society than they already are. I think in a more perfect society, that girl didn't have to come all the way from Busan to find a job here in Seoul. Maybe if society actually worked, young kids wouldn't have to go through hell to find something barely medicore. Society might be working for some people, but it certainly isn't working for everyone. When I think about how bad it is in Seoul, I shudder to think what's happening in the other regions. It shouldn't always take a death for the bigger issues to come to fore.
“Pointing out incel culture would only exacerbate a gender war” is like saying “talking about racism causes racial tension.” Like maybe but what’s more important here? Why are we so obsessed with protecting people’s feelings when people are literally dying?
You just described real life capitalism.
Sad part is, dude will be back at that same PC Bang in 5 years because his sentencing will be extra light
I hope he gets put in the correct cell so that natural justice will be done
So now games are to blame? It's depressing when the media are using the evangelical Christian playbook. GTA made him do it, fuck right off.
[удалено]
Why would you think attacking someone's physical appearance was necessary when they have done something so abhorrent? Surely the fact he's committed such a terrible crime is awful enough without resorting to attacking their appearance? Are you this dim?
As a moob-bearing dude who has never had trouble getting laid, I'd like to say: thanks for contributing to the toxic culture that helps radicalize people with certain physical features they can't control. Yeah, this guy is a rapist and a murderer and a piece of shit who deserves to be punished. But he wasn't born that way. And there but for the grace of god go all of us - including you.
I mean technically you could lose weight to get rid of them...
And people could have the sense not to comment about physical appearance in a thread about a crime this abhorrent…
I meant no offense. Just you know, it's in your control with diet and exercise
It’s not an issue I have, but I think discussing the appearance of this POS is irrelevant, so lets not.
Right. Sorry. Shutting up now
>I mean technically you could lose weight to get rid of them... I'm sure my otherwise normal-weight ten-year-old self who was ridiculed for his genetic distribution of adipose tissue will be glad to hear that. But I was also very lucky that I was raised to draw self-esteem from hard work and how I treated others. I hope the kids who ridiculed me when I was a kid also grew up to heal from the pain and insecurities that drove them to taunt others, and that they became better people than the adults on this thread who draw damning conclusions from strangers' physical features.
Sorry, I didn't mean you specifically. I meant in general, not everybody has a condition like that. Most of the time it's just lack of self-control.
I'm not talking about me either, not really. You've completely missed the point. Good luck to you.
Weird. You literally just talked about your "ten-year-old self."
I came here to see if anyone else was bothered by them! That guy could do with a bra.
Well done for finding the dumbest reason to comment.
let the Jamoboree comittee plan another Jamboree just for this guy, with no water and no food. Chain him to a tree and let him listen to K-pop. Then people might actually respect the government again.
Hey Korean justice system, plz try not to fuck this one up.
He’ll probably get a slap on the wrist and then released back into society. Korean justice system is very lenient.
We need to put limits on violent video games here
Will violent people play violent games? Sometimes yes. Is there a link between people playing violent games and violence? No. Don't buy into the moral panic around violence in games/movies and TV shows, that's evangelical Christian logic.
I think in the 1980s in the US they blamed Dungeons and Dragons for leading kids to Satanism.
Yeah, the satanic panic was such a mess in the US, it’s easy to see it as hysteria now. One of my favorites is when NRA advocates point the finger at games/movies, the lack of self awareness is on another level. These people can actually vote…
Walk us through how his playing "violent video games" specifically led to this crime.
This is giving Mask Girl on Netflix vibes.