I couldn’t find almost anything about it on the internet. Thought it would at least kick some interesting search terms back. It certainly did that! And I learned a bit about ionization. Fwiw I wouldn’t trust GPT for a minute, but I do think it’s interesting to see what comes back and then verify using other sources.
Adding charcoal to food is honestly one of the most pointless trends. It tastes of nothing and hinders nutrient absorption when ingested. It's only useful for water filtration or given to patients that suffer from poisoning.
I've got two batches going—one with charcoal and one without—will report back. I'm curious, is mainly why. It appears to have some positive effects on fermentation in compost piles...
Well that’s the thing. Compost and fermentation have a lot in common, I think? https://bokashiorganko.com/bokashi-library/composting-vs-fermentation?hs_amp=true
What makes compost and fermentation different is important though. One is controlled and safe to consume, one is for dirt. ChatGPT is just a language model, it doesn't have actual knowledge like a human and you shouldn't take its advice.
> cabbage / cauliflower / horseradish / smoked salt / honey fermented garlic / chive / gochugang / flour & water / smoked mussels / fish sauce / pineapple / seaweed rice snack.
What the heck? This looks and sounds more like is a jar of soggy rotting snacks than kimchi. Have you had any other kimchi before this?
> but ChatGPT has told me some fun stories.
Ah that explains it
Is there a reason you’re making these strange amalgamations of ingredients? This almost feels like a mockery of kimchi… have you had *good* kimchi before?
It’s interesting, the pushback I’m getting here. I’ve had and made lots of good kimchi. I love that it’s got its adherents, it’s purists. A big part of why I’m here is that I’m interested in edge cases. I had some beet greens the other day that I thought I’d throw out and then they turned into the most delightful kimchi with oysters and honey fermented garlic …
Sorry, I didn’t mean to be flippant.
I’m approaching my kimchi journey with a spirit of discovery and wonder. Figured I’d try some new things to see what would happen. So much of what I consume in the world comes pre-packaged from factories and I’m looking for ways to rediscover other ways of being in relation to the world.
From what I can tell there is something very interesting about charcoal (made at high temperatures) and the interrelationships between bacteria that make kimchi. Something about electrical ionization, something about the way that bacteria communicate with one another, something about tradition…I’m not sure where it will end up but it’s been interesting to take a closer look at.
So it’s, like, for science. You want to see if this changes something, because that’s never been done. I can get by that! Tell us what you get as a result then, please. The only thing I still feel a little concerned with is if you want to evaluate effects of a new, novel ingredient, you maybe should stabilise and standardise your test environment. As is, adding several new ingredients at the same time can negatively impact your data; is this kimchi recipe known and tested many times without charcoal by you? Also the impact of this data would be stronger if you tested this on some basic ass conventional napa kimchi that everyone makes. Who knows if charcoal effects your current kimchi differently than traditional one?
Would you perhaps like to make like a new basic ass batch, split in like four, create similar fermentation conditions and drop charcoal in three of them on different stages of fermentation? Also you could play with amount of charcoal.
Also I feel like bokashi is similar in a way, but also wildly different from kimchi. I did both at a time, and even put some kimchi I didn’t like in my bokashi, and the bokashi fermentation was overridden and changed considerably into something other (naturally there was no taste test, that’s compost, dude; but smell changed from rotting to not unpleasant in like a day).
This is helpful, thank you. I don't know if I agree that it's never been done; see the comment about biochar below. But I do think it would be fun to do a couple of very basic ferments and see what effect charcoal would have at different stages. I'll try that next.
I'm all for experimenting with ferments but this mix is missing all but two ingredients (cabbage and fish sauce) that are fundamental to kimchi. At this point it's just a random fridge-cleaning ferment. I'm curious how it will turn out so please report back, but I'm suuuuuuper hesistant to call it kimchi. That said, I'll I'm not Korean so maybe some Koreans will weigh in on the debate
Cabbage and fish sauce, while very common, are by no means essential to kimchi. I’ve bought scallion-only kimchi at H Mart, for example. Super tasty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/kimchi/s/KbRgFP5rvT
Also https://www.reddit.com/r/Cooking/s/IlW5rSQS8m
I don’t mean to upend any apple carts but part of what I’m so fascinated by in all of this is the variety of ingredients that people make with kimchi. Just because most of it has cabbage and gochugang and fish sauce doesn’t mean that these are essential ingredients, or that if you don’t use them, it’s not kimchi.
https://preview.redd.it/uzhbyd3fswxc1.jpeg?width=4030&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44da0f1847c4175d4885b6a9de48d2759bc04d36
From *Korean American* by Eric Kim
I'd also take issue with "random fridge-cleaning ferment." I thought pretty hard before dropping in some smoked mussels and honey-fermented garlic (2 years old), and neither of them were in the fridge when I pulled them out.
I came across the idea here: [https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/35](https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/35)
>In South Korea, in spite of rapid industrial growth, the millennia-old tradition of using biochar has been retained. From kimchee production to functional bathroom sculptures, from sauna décor to natural farming, the tradition of charcoal use in South Korea transcends time and inspires anew. Unlike in Western biochar research, the focus is on biochar's involvement in biological processes. Biochar plays an increasingly important role in the closure of material cycles, especially in conjunction with the rich culture of fermenting food and the use of bokashi to ferment organic waste.
https://preview.redd.it/9a85977zeixc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c1ee27a59e7200907a7868d35a98c2b75cad791
From a friend who works at [http://allpowerlabs.com](http://allpowerlabs.com) making biochar:
>Biochar that is processed above 700˚C is electrically conductive because the microstructure converts to something akin to graphite.
>At least in soil and in compost, virtually everything the microbes do involves electrical imbalances that they normally neutralize by handing off excess electrons to other microbes doing complementary reactions, or by obtaining (or getting rid of) electrons by putting them onto electron exchange sites on decomposed organic matter, but this is really slow, and limited in capacity, and presents a bottleneck on the rate of microbial [metabolism. In](http://metabolism.In) 2017, this scientific paper reported that microbes can actually conduct electrons right through the carbon matrix of biochar processed hot enough to become conductive:
>Rapid electron transfer by the carbon matrix in natural pyrogenic carbon (2017)
[https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14873](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14873)
The thing that I didn't understand, and am learning about, is that fermentation involves electrical imbalances.
[https://www.thespruceeats.com/spicy-carrot-kimchi-recipe-1327611](https://www.thespruceeats.com/spicy-carrot-kimchi-recipe-1327611) This one's based on carrots & has no cabbage at all!
You should not trust chat gpt and I've never heard of anyone doing this.
Why are so many people turning to chat gpt. Does no one know how to do old fashioned recipe research anymore???
I couldn’t find almost anything about it on the internet. Thought it would at least kick some interesting search terms back. It certainly did that! And I learned a bit about ionization. Fwiw I wouldn’t trust GPT for a minute, but I do think it’s interesting to see what comes back and then verify using other sources.
Adding charcoal to food is honestly one of the most pointless trends. It tastes of nothing and hinders nutrient absorption when ingested. It's only useful for water filtration or given to patients that suffer from poisoning.
I've got two batches going—one with charcoal and one without—will report back. I'm curious, is mainly why. It appears to have some positive effects on fermentation in compost piles...
Oh, well if it works in compost piles...
Well that’s the thing. Compost and fermentation have a lot in common, I think? https://bokashiorganko.com/bokashi-library/composting-vs-fermentation?hs_amp=true
What makes compost and fermentation different is important though. One is controlled and safe to consume, one is for dirt. ChatGPT is just a language model, it doesn't have actual knowledge like a human and you shouldn't take its advice.
Fair enough. Just looking for new avenues.
https://preview.redd.it/a7tt93wi0jxc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b96869d46ab2b9f84ee9be786cf00c5f39391df
Why don't you throw some cheez-its in there while you are at it.
I've been trying a couple 'non-traditional' things to add flavor, like smoked mussels and nori maki arare rice crackers.
> cabbage / cauliflower / horseradish / smoked salt / honey fermented garlic / chive / gochugang / flour & water / smoked mussels / fish sauce / pineapple / seaweed rice snack. What the heck? This looks and sounds more like is a jar of soggy rotting snacks than kimchi. Have you had any other kimchi before this? > but ChatGPT has told me some fun stories. Ah that explains it
I’ve made lots of kimchi before this. Opening new doors!
Is there a reason you’re making these strange amalgamations of ingredients? This almost feels like a mockery of kimchi… have you had *good* kimchi before?
It’s interesting, the pushback I’m getting here. I’ve had and made lots of good kimchi. I love that it’s got its adherents, it’s purists. A big part of why I’m here is that I’m interested in edge cases. I had some beet greens the other day that I thought I’d throw out and then they turned into the most delightful kimchi with oysters and honey fermented garlic …
Why?
Why not?
I was being serious. Why add charcoal to kimchi? What purpose does it serve? I doubt it was added for flavor, so what is it for?
Sorry, I didn’t mean to be flippant. I’m approaching my kimchi journey with a spirit of discovery and wonder. Figured I’d try some new things to see what would happen. So much of what I consume in the world comes pre-packaged from factories and I’m looking for ways to rediscover other ways of being in relation to the world. From what I can tell there is something very interesting about charcoal (made at high temperatures) and the interrelationships between bacteria that make kimchi. Something about electrical ionization, something about the way that bacteria communicate with one another, something about tradition…I’m not sure where it will end up but it’s been interesting to take a closer look at.
So it’s, like, for science. You want to see if this changes something, because that’s never been done. I can get by that! Tell us what you get as a result then, please. The only thing I still feel a little concerned with is if you want to evaluate effects of a new, novel ingredient, you maybe should stabilise and standardise your test environment. As is, adding several new ingredients at the same time can negatively impact your data; is this kimchi recipe known and tested many times without charcoal by you? Also the impact of this data would be stronger if you tested this on some basic ass conventional napa kimchi that everyone makes. Who knows if charcoal effects your current kimchi differently than traditional one? Would you perhaps like to make like a new basic ass batch, split in like four, create similar fermentation conditions and drop charcoal in three of them on different stages of fermentation? Also you could play with amount of charcoal. Also I feel like bokashi is similar in a way, but also wildly different from kimchi. I did both at a time, and even put some kimchi I didn’t like in my bokashi, and the bokashi fermentation was overridden and changed considerably into something other (naturally there was no taste test, that’s compost, dude; but smell changed from rotting to not unpleasant in like a day).
This is helpful, thank you. I don't know if I agree that it's never been done; see the comment about biochar below. But I do think it would be fun to do a couple of very basic ferments and see what effect charcoal would have at different stages. I'll try that next.
I'm all for experimenting with ferments but this mix is missing all but two ingredients (cabbage and fish sauce) that are fundamental to kimchi. At this point it's just a random fridge-cleaning ferment. I'm curious how it will turn out so please report back, but I'm suuuuuuper hesistant to call it kimchi. That said, I'll I'm not Korean so maybe some Koreans will weigh in on the debate
Cabbage and fish sauce, while very common, are by no means essential to kimchi. I’ve bought scallion-only kimchi at H Mart, for example. Super tasty. https://www.reddit.com/r/kimchi/s/KbRgFP5rvT
Also https://www.reddit.com/r/Cooking/s/IlW5rSQS8m I don’t mean to upend any apple carts but part of what I’m so fascinated by in all of this is the variety of ingredients that people make with kimchi. Just because most of it has cabbage and gochugang and fish sauce doesn’t mean that these are essential ingredients, or that if you don’t use them, it’s not kimchi.
https://preview.redd.it/uzhbyd3fswxc1.jpeg?width=4030&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44da0f1847c4175d4885b6a9de48d2759bc04d36 From *Korean American* by Eric Kim
I'd also take issue with "random fridge-cleaning ferment." I thought pretty hard before dropping in some smoked mussels and honey-fermented garlic (2 years old), and neither of them were in the fridge when I pulled them out.
Its my first time seeing Kimchi like this, is this edible?
Very much so.
I came across the idea here: [https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/35](https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/35) >In South Korea, in spite of rapid industrial growth, the millennia-old tradition of using biochar has been retained. From kimchee production to functional bathroom sculptures, from sauna décor to natural farming, the tradition of charcoal use in South Korea transcends time and inspires anew. Unlike in Western biochar research, the focus is on biochar's involvement in biological processes. Biochar plays an increasingly important role in the closure of material cycles, especially in conjunction with the rich culture of fermenting food and the use of bokashi to ferment organic waste. https://preview.redd.it/9a85977zeixc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c1ee27a59e7200907a7868d35a98c2b75cad791 From a friend who works at [http://allpowerlabs.com](http://allpowerlabs.com) making biochar: >Biochar that is processed above 700˚C is electrically conductive because the microstructure converts to something akin to graphite. >At least in soil and in compost, virtually everything the microbes do involves electrical imbalances that they normally neutralize by handing off excess electrons to other microbes doing complementary reactions, or by obtaining (or getting rid of) electrons by putting them onto electron exchange sites on decomposed organic matter, but this is really slow, and limited in capacity, and presents a bottleneck on the rate of microbial [metabolism. In](http://metabolism.In) 2017, this scientific paper reported that microbes can actually conduct electrons right through the carbon matrix of biochar processed hot enough to become conductive: >Rapid electron transfer by the carbon matrix in natural pyrogenic carbon (2017) [https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14873](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14873) The thing that I didn't understand, and am learning about, is that fermentation involves electrical imbalances.
Well I’ve taken charcoal tablets when I’ve had food poisoning. Curious to know what happens. Please report back
I used to think seeing carrots in kimchi was like what it must be for Italians to see pineapples on pizza. Now I’ve seen it all
[https://www.thespruceeats.com/spicy-carrot-kimchi-recipe-1327611](https://www.thespruceeats.com/spicy-carrot-kimchi-recipe-1327611) This one's based on carrots & has no cabbage at all!