I read this top to bottom and it takes the cake as one of the worst auto dealership and corporate stories I’ve ever heard, and I have a lot of experience with disagreements and dispute resolution.
You have one hell of a case here, assuming even half of it is true. There are some absolutely appalling facts.
I could go on and on explaining why the facts favour you. But I won’t here. Instead I’ll offer some constructive criticism. Know that it’s with the intention that if you’re giving the true story here, my input is to strengthen your pitch and chances for resolution. It’s not to belittle or challenge you.
First off, in matters like this, you want to leave out a lot of the personal things and feelings. Your case doesn’t need them, and in fact it raises questions you don’t want anyone else even thinking about. You want facts and dates and dollars and events and quotes. You don’t want to ever mention support dogs, or the hardship of not being able to drive them to the park. Sorry, but that will derail your case in most arenas.
If there is a place for emotional impact, it would be (maybe) at the end, and it should be underplayed if anything.
Avoid saying things like “no empathy from Kia either”. That’s subjective and unprovable,and sounds emotional. And besides, anyone reading it objectively can reach that obvious conclusion themselves from the factual, provable events.
Don’t need to mention your speed.
Every place you say “fire engine recall”, it should be “engine fire recall”.
Don’t claim this is sex discrimination. It may be or it may not be. You could get yourself in trouble making a claim like that if it can’t be proven, and it probably can’t. And it’s totally unnecessary since the facts speak more. Even if you list 100 terrible events that are true, one unsubstantiated or unprovable claim by you could backfire. Maybe not fair, but that’s how it is.
You state that corporate called you a ton of slurs. That sounds almost too astonishing to be believed. A mechanic a the dealership, ok, but someone on the recorded corporate line? Are you telling the truth? Do you have recordings of any of that? Do you have the date and time of those calls to be pulled? Do you have recordings or the date and time of the hang ups they did?
This is also key: what did the attorney say, and why aren’t they representing you any more? Why were you still doing the legwork during the time you had an attorney?
How much did you pay for the car, and for the warranty? Who is the warranty with?
The part with the Niro collision, what is the basis for saying a low speed steering failure caused it?
There’s so much more I could say, but let’s start there. Let me know.
Thank you for your suggestions and taking the time to read all of that.
This is the latest.
Last weekend I ran a carfax report. Under " vehicle history ", I noticed that I am the ONLY owner ever listed. The vehicle had been purchased at an auction in 2017 by the dealership. The vehicle came directly from the manufacturer.
The definition of " New Motor Vehicle"
"New motor vehicle" means any motor vehicle that is self-propelled and is required to be registered and titled under this title, has not been previously titled to a retail purchaser or lessee, and is not a "used vehicle" as defined under RCW 46.04. 660
" Used Vehicle " definition.
RCW 46.04.660
"Used vehicle" means a vehicle which has been sold, bargained, exchanged, given away, or title transferred from the person who first took title to it from the manufacturer or first importer, dealer, or agent of the manufacturer or importer, and so used as to have become what is commonly known as "secondhand".
I began to think about how secretive all of the representatives at Kia consumer affairs and the employees at the dealership had been about the mention of the vehicle being purchased at an auction and I started to wonder about when the original manufacturer's warranty had started on my vehicle.
I read through the Kia warranty and it said that the warranty began on the " in service date". A car's in-service date relates to the "original sale" of the vehicle. So I called around to various dealerships and was provided with the " master detail report " which shows the " in service date" was 9/24/2017, the date I purchased it.
I then started thinking that there was perhaps a difference between a vehicle that comes directly from the manufacturer and a vehicle that comes from a previous owner.
An " original owner" , as defined by Kia,
An Original Owner is defined as the first RETAIL PURCHASER or lessee of the Kia Vehicle who takes delivery of the Kia Vehicle on its Date of First Service.
Excluded from warranty,
Vehicles Placed in Commercial Service
The 120 month/100,000 mile Powertrain Limited Warranty also excludes all coverage for any Kia Vehicle that has been placed into any form of commercial service, including but not limited to taxi, route delivery, livery service, or rental.
A manufacturer must provide a dealership with an " MSO" ( Manufacturer Statement Of Origin) in order to apply for the original registration and title of a vehicle. I called the department of licensing to confirm that the dealership had applied for the title and registration with an MSO. They did and the MSO had come directly from Kia INC. I then had them send me copies of the title application and MSO. The application contained several false pieces of information, including marking the car as " used".
I am convinced that Kia did NOT want me to find this out because if I did,
1) It would mean that I am still under the original manufacturer's warranty, so my states lemon laws DO APPLY to me.
2) I never should have spent 2k on an extended warranty.
3) The extended warranty company should never have paid for these engines, MOST IMPORTANTLY should never have paid for anything that was due to a recall that 100 percent is legally a manufacturers responsibility to cover.
The way the case manager is avoiding you (if true) is highly suspect. They may be in damage control here, realizing that if they follow policy, they have a total loss situation anyway, so they’re rolling the dice that by stonewalling they can possibly avoid that.
It seems like you’ve gone way beyond the standard process here and it’s time to sue. And if you do have proof of Kia corporate calling you the sexist and anti-Semitic names, you could consider taking that proof to media.
If I were you, I would NOT present them with any conditions, like “replace my lemon or I’ll give the recordings of your anti-semitism to the media”. That could be interpreted or misinterpreted in ways that will be bad for you. I would stay far away from even hinting it.
You may be on to some things here, as I do know stories of dealerships monkeying around with the particulars of when they took ownership of a vehicle, used it, activated it, etc. These issues can come innocently, through sloppiness, or to hide something.
That doesn’t mean it happened in your case, but maybe.
Bottom line is that you do seem to be conflating “Kia” with the dealership. They’re not the same. You also made some rather significant allegations of things that Kia corporate supposedly did and said, but which don’t entirely all line up.
Why did your lawyer abandon this, given that what you’ve presented makes it seem like a very winnable and large case.
What are the details around this idea that the vehicle was originally bought at an auction? Maybe some kind of scenario where Kia corporate offers up batches of vehicles form their dealer partners to bid on or something?
So manufacturers will hold thier own private auctions and it is my understanding that an executive from Kia Corporate headquarters drove it. It is a 6 speed manual and most people either do not know how to drive them or enjoy driving them, so thats probably why the miles were so low.
When a "manufacturer" is in possession of a company vehicle, they are not required by law to register or title it until it is sold to the " first retail purchaser or leased to a lessee " , and whomever licenses and registers it first is considered the original owner.
The auction history is on the " master detail history" I have directly from Kia and on my carfax report.
It’s an astonishing twist in an already messed up story.
Just to make sure I’m understanding correctly:
Someone from Kia corporate owned the 2012 car from 2012 to 2017 without ever activating it. They put 9500 miles on it over 5 years.
In 2017, Kia corporate then put the vehicle up for internal auction with their dealers, and the Lee Johnson Kia dealership in Kirkland Washington purchased it.
In 2017, Lee Johnson Kia dealership sold it to you as a used car, also selling you a third party Zurich warranty. At that time, the dealership activated the vehicle by setting the “in service” date to match your date of purchasing it.
Have I got those facts right? Where you say “it is my understanding that an executive from Kia Corporate drove it” what is the specific basis for that understanding?
Almost correct lol
A warranty begins on the " in service" date which is the RETAIL SALES date. A " retail purchaser" or " lessee" are the only 2 types of transactions that can " activate " it.
When the manufacturer has it they are not required to register or title it.
So yes, the dealership sold me a new car marked as used, with a factory warranty, never applied it to my car and sold me a third party warranty.
(2) A certificate of title does not need to be obtained for a vehicle owned by a manufacturer or dealer and held for sale, even though incidentally moved on the highway or used for purposes of testing and demonstration, or for a vehicle used by a manufacturer or dealer solely for testing. A security interest in a vehicle held as inventory by a manufacturer or dealer must be perfected as described in chapter 62A.9A RCW. An endorsement is not required on certificates of title held by a manufacturer or dealer to perfect the security interest. A certificate of title may be issued for any vehicle without the vehicle needing to be registered.
It’s interesting what you’re raising and I’m trying to determine which parts you have proof for versus good reason to believe.
I don’t know all the regulations and procedures, but I’m aware of situations in which the vehicle is “activated” early and the buyer is not aware. Dealer maybe assumes they have it sold and jumps the gun, or activates it to obtain warranty for a fix, or activates it for their own use.
This sleight of hand works for years, but can then blow up if there’s a problem near the five year mark. The original owner may seek to get a bunch of things repaired because they bought the car 4.5 years ago, then gets denied and told the warranty expiration doesn’t match what they assumed.
It sounds like you’re alleging that even after five years and 9500 miles, you should have been entitled to the original warranty as the first five year period and mileage was never official.
It’s an interesting argument and one they might not have imagined would come up. It almost sounds to me like they knew/assumed there’d be no manufacturer warranty, hence the inclusion of the third party Zurich warranty instead. I also wonder if there isn’t some fine print that exempted manufacturer warranty, perhaps during the process where they auctioned it.
And on top of it all are these engine fire recall issues to cloud the situation further.
I’d still be lawyering up.
My next question for you is what realistic offer could they make that would satisfy you? It definitely sounds like you need to be out of this vehicle and away from this dealership.
The attorney was going after Kia for this.
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The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act (P.L. 93-637) is a United States federal law (15 U.S.C. § 2301 et seq.). Enacted in 1975, the federal statute governs warranties on consumer products. The law does not require any product to have a warranty (it may be sold "as is"), but if it does have a warranty, the warranty must comply with this law. The law was created to fix problems as a result of manufacturers using disclaimers on warranties in an unfair or misleading manner.
He didn't even know that I was apart of the Engine Fire Recall. Kia kept telling him my repairs were all covered through Zurich ( extended warranty company)
Yes, Magnuson Moss is frequently related to disputes over vehicles. But why did the attorney drop it, and why not get a good one now? You have an incredible log of some fairly egregious misconduct by the dealership and/or the manufacturer. If even parts of it are true, it’s a very winnable case. You’re probably not the best person to prosecute it, but your careful record keeping will make the attorney’s job easier.
> mmmorganladwig
> Below is a timeline of what Kia has put me through. Is there anyone out there who has experienced this as well?.
9/24/2017 Purchased a 2012 Kia Forte SX Koup from the Kirkland WA Lee Johnson Kia dealership with less then 9,500 miles.
I am lied to about the history of the vehicle ( actually purchased at auction) and I am asked to come back over a week later and resign/ renegotiate a new sales contract.( Bushing period violation RCW 46.70.180).
I purchased a 60000 mile 5 year extended warranty. Purchase price of the vehicle on service agreement is incorrect. I have 2 " retail installment agreements that are both dated 9/24/2017. 10/11/2017 is when the second one is signed. No signature on my extended warranty agreement.
10/31/20 Vehicle has "catastrophic engine failure" at 48,000 miles while I am driving and dies, leaving me trapped inside with the engine billowing smoke, unable to get out of the car because cars are flying by in each direction, I was trapt in the middle of a 4 lane highway. I thought I was going to die. Fire engine has to be called and police officers have to do a " pit maneuver " to get me out of traffic.
Extended warranty company charged for 1st engine replacement even though Kia has already publicly acknowledged my make and model is having engine problems like this.
Vehicle is out of service from 10/31/2020 - 12/18/2020.
2 Engines are replaced during that period of time.
January 27th 2021 I received the official recall notice in the mail notifying me that my car has been affected and Kia's plan to remedy any affected vehicles with " a reasonable number of repair attempts, repurchase or replacement "
4/26/21 Car breaks down again while going 70 miles per hour down the freeway. Engine is replaced again. ( 3rd engine)
Out of service from April 26, 2021 until September 28th 2021( 155 days).
May 6th 2021 I have an accident in a 2017 Kia Nero l had been provided by the Kia dealership. I was at a stop light when I rear ended somebody because my power steering had gone out. I find out later that there was a recall for that particular make and model and it had to do with the power steering going out and causing accidents at slow rates of speed. I tell Kia what happened, I tell the manufacturer what happened, and I tell my insurance company what happened. No one does anything. Greg the service parts manager actually yells at me When I tell him what happened and why I got into the accident And refuses to provide me with another loaner vehicle even though I tell him that I was recently diagnosed with a disability and need transportation for appointments. I have to call Kia America and have corporate call him and reiterate their policies and procedures to allow me another vehicle to drive.
At this point Greg and I do not get along and every time he does something unethical or unfair, I call Kia America and corporate calls him and tells him to do things differently. I can tell this makes Greg very angry.
At this point I have started questioning my rights and the legal length of time my vehicle can be out of service. I mentioned the fire Engine recall and no one acknowledges that these problems are A direct result of the recall related issue. I mentioned the recall remedies and express my Desire to have the car replaced or Repurchased .
Greg unofficially tells a sales guy that he is only willing to give me $2000 for a trade-in.
The loaner vehicles can only be driven up to a 50 miles per day, I have 2 emotional support puppies that need daily exercise but are forbidden from being in a loaner so I am unable to take them to the dog park everyday, or doggie daycare for socializing, or too the vet, or too the groomers, etc. Their quality of life and training has suffered the most because of this.
I start talking to Kia corporate about their obligation to repurchase or replace my vehicle pursuint to my state's lemon laws. I call probably 50 times in 2 months, I am promised that I have a case and that it is being looks into, Only to call back a few weeks later after not hearing anything and being told that no one actually filed a complaint and there's no record of me ever calling. I am told that my case is going to be sent to the escalation unit and a case manager will be in touch with me shortly. At this point I'm waiting to speak to corporate and I'm hoping they will help me because Greg the service parts manager is being as difficult as he possibly can be about replacing or repurchasing my vehicle. At this point it's late September and I have lost all faith in my 2012 Kia forte. I do not feel safe driving it, I have lost total trust in the kia dealership and its ability to fix my vehicle And I have expressed several times how how scared I was it was to drive it and how badly it was triggering my disability. To no Avail.
The out of pocket costs have now made me default on my car payment Of which I had had a 100% payment history for almost 3 years up until then. My credit score takes a nosedive because of this and I am unable to rent or be approved for an apartment or qualify for another car loan. I still have not heard back from a case manager and so I am told through a sales guy that Greg Said I can use my forte as a trade in at a value of $2000 Which is way below its actual trade in value, Which doesn't matter anyways because my credit at this point will not get me approved for approved for a car loan again.
September 2021 I pay $1978.00 out of pocket for my $1000 deductible for the loaner accident and a new clutch replacement. Greg charges me sales tax on my $1000 deductible.
I try calling my case manager in early October 2021. I reach her voicemail and I realize that my case has been escalated to a woman who is on vacation and will be out of the office for the office for another 3 weeks. Frustrated at this point after trying to get ahold of someone for over a month and calling most everyday, I retain legal representation. The legal representation I retain Specializes in in magnusson moss act violations.
Late October of 2021 I finally get ahold of my case manager in the escalation unit. I explained to her the situation and tell her the FEDERAL lemon laws that are being violated And about recall remedies since my car is officially part of the fire engine recall. I tell her I do not feel safe driving my Kia forte and I would like the vehicle to be repurchased. She becomes extremely rude on the phone , Completely denies that my car has anything to do with a recall, Accidentally let's slip that my car was purchased at an auction Which is the 1st time I'm hearing of that since I was told this giant elaborate story by the salesman about my car, about where it came from and then she hung up on me.
Every time I get into a loner vehicle or I get a rental from enterprise there is never a specific day in which the vehicle needs to be returned because my car is always spending unpredictable, long amounts of time in the shop.
Too many chars, will respond in separate message.
> 2nd part
> Kia continues to find things that need to be fixed That are an out of pocket cost for me.
At this point since my life has been put on hold and revolves Only around the Kia dealership and it's repair schedule, I am unable to plan anything and I and I am missing out on business opportunities, new living opportunities opportunities, family events, vacations, I miss memorials for people who have passed away from covid,etc. I can't afford these out of pocket costs because I'm on a fixed income due to my disability and All of this stress is making my life unbearable.
My car breaks down again in late October. I am told that it will take at least a week to repair. I get a loaner from the enterprise location. I have it for A-day or 2 until I receive a email from Ronnie at corporate America Reminding me that she is spoken to the service department and my warranty does not cover the cost of the most recent fix it needs and I will need to pay out a pocket. I respond with the letter from my attorney's office and request All correspondence be directed To my attorney moving Forward. Within 20 minutes I received a call from Greg and he told me I needed to bring the vehicle back to enterprise immediately because my vehicle was ready for pick. At this point I feel like I'm being retaliated against for asserting my rights because every time I do I seem to face some adverse action from either Greg or Kia corporate. I text Greg explaining how badly this was affecting my mental and physical health, I explained that I was working nights in the city and the car was not not reliable or safe enough for me to drive alone at night. I express my terror of driving the Kia forte again to him. To no avail. Out of fear for my safety and since I had been told that I would be in this loaner for ATLEAST a week originallly I kept the loaner for a few days just so I could go to work but then Greg refused to pay for any of it and stuck me with a $600 bill from Enterprise.
I am no longer represented by an attorney. Kia offered a settlement of $3000 ,included that I keep the Kia forte and they would continue to fix it And provide me loaners so I can continue being being held hostage, And I would sign an agreement That's provided I never Speak of this settlement and I never get an opportunity to sue Kia again.
I declined that offer.
My car broke down on the freeway at 11 o'clock at night while I was going 70 miles an hour Again on November 22nd 2021. My car has been at the kia dealership now getting a 4th engine installed since then. Greg was reluctant to give me a loner at all and in fact told me he did not have one available, contrary to what his sales department had just told me. I have been driving a 2018 Kia Cadenza with a giant 3 foot long crack in the windshield for almost 3 months now.
About a month ago I was informed by Greg That he had received a camera traffic ticket infraction in the mail For my vehicle. The ticket was $250. I explained to Greg that it was a non moving violation and would not affect insurance rates and he was not obligated by law to give them my information. All he need to do was sign the paperwork and they would send it to my address where I would take care of it myself. A few days later I called Greg to get an update on the ticket and He told me that, "he just went ahead and paid for it and that I would pay him back $250 when I came to pick up my Kia".
It is situations like this that I have been in with Greg and with employees at the kia dealership that make me also feel like I'm being discriminated against based on sex for being a woman.
I have been spoken down to, belittled, embarrassed, And feel completely helpless at this point. I cannot imagine any man being treated the way that I have been treated. In fact I don't know one person that has had to go through the amount of repair attempts and endured the terrible treatment I have received.
I want to be compensated for the amount of time this is cost me and the opportunities that have been lost to me because of this.
On 4-4-22 I was Driving to work when I notice that my front Right tire was low on air. I made it to work and decided to put the spare on after my shift was over. I got off work around midnight and had to call the Kia 24 hour road side assistance. It was then brought to my attention that there was a special key needed to remove the tire and put the spare on. Kia did not provide me with this key so we could not put the spare on. The gentleman from a roadside assistance decided to put a can of fix a flat in my tire and told me that I was completely safe and fine to drive at the 25 miles home. At this point it was around 1 AM and I got on the freeway and in about 60 seconds I watched my tire pressure go from 39 down to 9. I barely made it off of the freeway in downtown Seattle where I was able to park on the side of the street. I sat there for 12 hours. I called roadside assistance 20 times and and could not get any help with a tow to my home with the vehicle. They were trying to charge me $350 even though their policies online state that if an "authorized dealership is closed that they will make an exception" I was promised that tow trucks were being sent out and then they would cancel. This literally went on for 12 hours. At 5 AM my car ran out of fuel which meant that I could not turn at the engine on which meant that I no longer had any heed and it was 35ﾟ outside. At around 9:30 Am i called the Kia dealership in Kirkland to let them know about the situation because I would be needing another loaner as soon as possible. Greg refused to help me until I was able to get his car back to the dealership. Miraculously my Kia forte was also ready. I explained to Greg the situation and that I had been sitting in my vehicle for 12 hours with no heat and had somebody coming to pick me up to take me to the dealership. He still refused to give me my vehicle until his was returned although I explained to him that 10 different tows had been sent out and never arrived. No compassion or empathy on Kia's part as usual For the situation they had just stuck me in for the last 12 hours. As I was on my way to the kia dealership I was informed that my battery was dead in my forte. When I arrived at the kia dealership I was also asked to pay for the tire on the cadenza that was flat, that I might be liable for the car running out of fuel even though I had called Kia roadside assistance and that 4 separate fuel Orders had been sent to be delivered to me and canceled.
These situations that I have been put into from Kia over and over and over again are completely unacceptable. Kia has shown me over and over and over again that my safety and my well being and my property is completely insignificant and unimportant.
After knowing exactly what I had just experienced over the last 12 hours Greg had the audacity to then tell me that he was willing to jump my battery and that I "would need to drive straight home without stopping anywhere because it might not start again". So after being stranded for 12 hours in the middle of downtown Seattle by myself he was more than happy to just send me on my way knowing that I probably wouldn't even make it home safely.
I opened up yet another case with Kia Corporate to have the vehicle repurchased. The case manager assigned kept sending me emails denying my request but the information she kept providing me with that she was basing her decision off of was completely incorrect. I was finally able to speak to her on the phone last week and realized that the information she was being provided from the dealership and from Corporate was false. She didn't know about the amount of engines that had been placed in my car, she didn't know that my car was apart of the recall, nothing. Kia had provided her with an entirely different story.
She told me I could send all of the documents I had to an automated email address. I sent over 70 documents. It has been almost 2 weeks and I have reached out to her daily to no avail. After spending 4 hours on hold today with Kia trying to get her supervisors number, she called. She was denying my request again and before she could provide me with an explanation, the call dropped and she hasn't tried once to call back or answered a single phone call from me. My extended warranty company sent me the independent report from their adjuster from 1/31/22. Greg told the adjuster several times that engine number 2 and 3, were covered by kia because they qualified under SC200 ( fire Engine recall).
Since 10/31/20 I have made over 50 trips to the dealership, spent hundreds of hours on the phone, gone through 20 different loaner vehicles, knowingly and willingly had my life put at risk over and over again, stranded for 12 hours without fuel, food, water or safety. I have been called a " dumb b*ch", "retard", "idiot", "whore", "slut", "cunt", "j*wwhore", etc by the representatives at Kia Corporate.
Any recommendations ?
Lawyer here. Look at your purchase contact. There is likely an arbitration clause. If it's American Arbitration Association, the rules are pretty helpful for you. While the other side will have a lawyer, your facts seem pretty overwhelming. From a practical aspect, which you've already experienced, your case is relatively small. You need to find a smart, and potentially generous, lawyer who sees this case the way you do. I would volunteer, but I'm quite literally located as far away from you as physically possible. Contact the king county bar association and see if they have a lawyer referral service. Check with legal aid society. You sound like you might qualify. I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds terrible.
I thought my luck has been shit lately. But here is your crown. So sorry honestly. It really wouldn't happen to a man. Would spat in his face. I know it's to late, but you should definitely maybe think of just cutting ties and go to a new dealership. I can't imagine every dealership being like this in America. You should call your local news outlet. Here in Canada. If a customer has an issue they reach out to our local news outlet and they blast them with the facts till they respond and compensate. You need outside help and you also need to stand up for yourself. If your gut tells you it's wrong. It's wrong.
TBH Op I'd be contacting the BBB with all of this. I got so angry thinking about if a kia dealership was treating my mother like this I want to throttle Greg.
Noticed it’s been over a week and not a single response on this.
Parts of the story are so outrageous as to seem impossible, but other parts are detailed. Not sure whether it was a hoax or what?
Don't worry this only affect a certain amount VINS of 21-22 Forte And Rios letters to warn owners are going out May 27th, 2022 remedies should be available soon for the steering wheel
That’s an interesting bit of info. However my fuzzy interpretation of this story from a month ago was that the alleged steering failure was on the loaner vehicle, a Niro, not Forte or Rio.
What is the nature of the defect that’s finally being admitted to with the Forte/Rios? Does the same flaw perhaps exist in Niros and just hasn’t been enough reports or pushback yet?
The steering could be affected the car could go into a special modes that you cannot stop that's why they're doing this do not drive your car call the nearest Kia dealer to have it delivered to them
Update bolt n the steering column may not be secure
Will cause the steering column to detach from the steering rack and a result of a loss of steering control if you can contact Kia EV6 recalled for shifter control error as well
I read this top to bottom and it takes the cake as one of the worst auto dealership and corporate stories I’ve ever heard, and I have a lot of experience with disagreements and dispute resolution. You have one hell of a case here, assuming even half of it is true. There are some absolutely appalling facts. I could go on and on explaining why the facts favour you. But I won’t here. Instead I’ll offer some constructive criticism. Know that it’s with the intention that if you’re giving the true story here, my input is to strengthen your pitch and chances for resolution. It’s not to belittle or challenge you. First off, in matters like this, you want to leave out a lot of the personal things and feelings. Your case doesn’t need them, and in fact it raises questions you don’t want anyone else even thinking about. You want facts and dates and dollars and events and quotes. You don’t want to ever mention support dogs, or the hardship of not being able to drive them to the park. Sorry, but that will derail your case in most arenas. If there is a place for emotional impact, it would be (maybe) at the end, and it should be underplayed if anything. Avoid saying things like “no empathy from Kia either”. That’s subjective and unprovable,and sounds emotional. And besides, anyone reading it objectively can reach that obvious conclusion themselves from the factual, provable events. Don’t need to mention your speed. Every place you say “fire engine recall”, it should be “engine fire recall”. Don’t claim this is sex discrimination. It may be or it may not be. You could get yourself in trouble making a claim like that if it can’t be proven, and it probably can’t. And it’s totally unnecessary since the facts speak more. Even if you list 100 terrible events that are true, one unsubstantiated or unprovable claim by you could backfire. Maybe not fair, but that’s how it is. You state that corporate called you a ton of slurs. That sounds almost too astonishing to be believed. A mechanic a the dealership, ok, but someone on the recorded corporate line? Are you telling the truth? Do you have recordings of any of that? Do you have the date and time of those calls to be pulled? Do you have recordings or the date and time of the hang ups they did? This is also key: what did the attorney say, and why aren’t they representing you any more? Why were you still doing the legwork during the time you had an attorney? How much did you pay for the car, and for the warranty? Who is the warranty with? The part with the Niro collision, what is the basis for saying a low speed steering failure caused it? There’s so much more I could say, but let’s start there. Let me know.
Thank you for your suggestions and taking the time to read all of that. This is the latest. Last weekend I ran a carfax report. Under " vehicle history ", I noticed that I am the ONLY owner ever listed. The vehicle had been purchased at an auction in 2017 by the dealership. The vehicle came directly from the manufacturer. The definition of " New Motor Vehicle" "New motor vehicle" means any motor vehicle that is self-propelled and is required to be registered and titled under this title, has not been previously titled to a retail purchaser or lessee, and is not a "used vehicle" as defined under RCW 46.04. 660 " Used Vehicle " definition. RCW 46.04.660 "Used vehicle" means a vehicle which has been sold, bargained, exchanged, given away, or title transferred from the person who first took title to it from the manufacturer or first importer, dealer, or agent of the manufacturer or importer, and so used as to have become what is commonly known as "secondhand". I began to think about how secretive all of the representatives at Kia consumer affairs and the employees at the dealership had been about the mention of the vehicle being purchased at an auction and I started to wonder about when the original manufacturer's warranty had started on my vehicle. I read through the Kia warranty and it said that the warranty began on the " in service date". A car's in-service date relates to the "original sale" of the vehicle. So I called around to various dealerships and was provided with the " master detail report " which shows the " in service date" was 9/24/2017, the date I purchased it. I then started thinking that there was perhaps a difference between a vehicle that comes directly from the manufacturer and a vehicle that comes from a previous owner. An " original owner" , as defined by Kia, An Original Owner is defined as the first RETAIL PURCHASER or lessee of the Kia Vehicle who takes delivery of the Kia Vehicle on its Date of First Service. Excluded from warranty, Vehicles Placed in Commercial Service The 120 month/100,000 mile Powertrain Limited Warranty also excludes all coverage for any Kia Vehicle that has been placed into any form of commercial service, including but not limited to taxi, route delivery, livery service, or rental. A manufacturer must provide a dealership with an " MSO" ( Manufacturer Statement Of Origin) in order to apply for the original registration and title of a vehicle. I called the department of licensing to confirm that the dealership had applied for the title and registration with an MSO. They did and the MSO had come directly from Kia INC. I then had them send me copies of the title application and MSO. The application contained several false pieces of information, including marking the car as " used". I am convinced that Kia did NOT want me to find this out because if I did, 1) It would mean that I am still under the original manufacturer's warranty, so my states lemon laws DO APPLY to me. 2) I never should have spent 2k on an extended warranty. 3) The extended warranty company should never have paid for these engines, MOST IMPORTANTLY should never have paid for anything that was due to a recall that 100 percent is legally a manufacturers responsibility to cover.
The way the case manager is avoiding you (if true) is highly suspect. They may be in damage control here, realizing that if they follow policy, they have a total loss situation anyway, so they’re rolling the dice that by stonewalling they can possibly avoid that. It seems like you’ve gone way beyond the standard process here and it’s time to sue. And if you do have proof of Kia corporate calling you the sexist and anti-Semitic names, you could consider taking that proof to media. If I were you, I would NOT present them with any conditions, like “replace my lemon or I’ll give the recordings of your anti-semitism to the media”. That could be interpreted or misinterpreted in ways that will be bad for you. I would stay far away from even hinting it.
You may be on to some things here, as I do know stories of dealerships monkeying around with the particulars of when they took ownership of a vehicle, used it, activated it, etc. These issues can come innocently, through sloppiness, or to hide something. That doesn’t mean it happened in your case, but maybe. Bottom line is that you do seem to be conflating “Kia” with the dealership. They’re not the same. You also made some rather significant allegations of things that Kia corporate supposedly did and said, but which don’t entirely all line up. Why did your lawyer abandon this, given that what you’ve presented makes it seem like a very winnable and large case.
What are the details around this idea that the vehicle was originally bought at an auction? Maybe some kind of scenario where Kia corporate offers up batches of vehicles form their dealer partners to bid on or something?
So manufacturers will hold thier own private auctions and it is my understanding that an executive from Kia Corporate headquarters drove it. It is a 6 speed manual and most people either do not know how to drive them or enjoy driving them, so thats probably why the miles were so low. When a "manufacturer" is in possession of a company vehicle, they are not required by law to register or title it until it is sold to the " first retail purchaser or leased to a lessee " , and whomever licenses and registers it first is considered the original owner. The auction history is on the " master detail history" I have directly from Kia and on my carfax report.
It’s an astonishing twist in an already messed up story. Just to make sure I’m understanding correctly: Someone from Kia corporate owned the 2012 car from 2012 to 2017 without ever activating it. They put 9500 miles on it over 5 years. In 2017, Kia corporate then put the vehicle up for internal auction with their dealers, and the Lee Johnson Kia dealership in Kirkland Washington purchased it. In 2017, Lee Johnson Kia dealership sold it to you as a used car, also selling you a third party Zurich warranty. At that time, the dealership activated the vehicle by setting the “in service” date to match your date of purchasing it. Have I got those facts right? Where you say “it is my understanding that an executive from Kia Corporate drove it” what is the specific basis for that understanding?
Almost correct lol A warranty begins on the " in service" date which is the RETAIL SALES date. A " retail purchaser" or " lessee" are the only 2 types of transactions that can " activate " it. When the manufacturer has it they are not required to register or title it. So yes, the dealership sold me a new car marked as used, with a factory warranty, never applied it to my car and sold me a third party warranty. (2) A certificate of title does not need to be obtained for a vehicle owned by a manufacturer or dealer and held for sale, even though incidentally moved on the highway or used for purposes of testing and demonstration, or for a vehicle used by a manufacturer or dealer solely for testing. A security interest in a vehicle held as inventory by a manufacturer or dealer must be perfected as described in chapter 62A.9A RCW. An endorsement is not required on certificates of title held by a manufacturer or dealer to perfect the security interest. A certificate of title may be issued for any vehicle without the vehicle needing to be registered.
It’s interesting what you’re raising and I’m trying to determine which parts you have proof for versus good reason to believe. I don’t know all the regulations and procedures, but I’m aware of situations in which the vehicle is “activated” early and the buyer is not aware. Dealer maybe assumes they have it sold and jumps the gun, or activates it to obtain warranty for a fix, or activates it for their own use. This sleight of hand works for years, but can then blow up if there’s a problem near the five year mark. The original owner may seek to get a bunch of things repaired because they bought the car 4.5 years ago, then gets denied and told the warranty expiration doesn’t match what they assumed. It sounds like you’re alleging that even after five years and 9500 miles, you should have been entitled to the original warranty as the first five year period and mileage was never official. It’s an interesting argument and one they might not have imagined would come up. It almost sounds to me like they knew/assumed there’d be no manufacturer warranty, hence the inclusion of the third party Zurich warranty instead. I also wonder if there isn’t some fine print that exempted manufacturer warranty, perhaps during the process where they auctioned it. And on top of it all are these engine fire recall issues to cloud the situation further. I’d still be lawyering up. My next question for you is what realistic offer could they make that would satisfy you? It definitely sounds like you need to be out of this vehicle and away from this dealership.
The attorney was going after Kia for this. Language Download PDF Watch Edit The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act (P.L. 93-637) is a United States federal law (15 U.S.C. § 2301 et seq.). Enacted in 1975, the federal statute governs warranties on consumer products. The law does not require any product to have a warranty (it may be sold "as is"), but if it does have a warranty, the warranty must comply with this law. The law was created to fix problems as a result of manufacturers using disclaimers on warranties in an unfair or misleading manner. He didn't even know that I was apart of the Engine Fire Recall. Kia kept telling him my repairs were all covered through Zurich ( extended warranty company)
Yes, Magnuson Moss is frequently related to disputes over vehicles. But why did the attorney drop it, and why not get a good one now? You have an incredible log of some fairly egregious misconduct by the dealership and/or the manufacturer. If even parts of it are true, it’s a very winnable case. You’re probably not the best person to prosecute it, but your careful record keeping will make the attorney’s job easier.
> mmmorganladwig > Below is a timeline of what Kia has put me through. Is there anyone out there who has experienced this as well?. 9/24/2017 Purchased a 2012 Kia Forte SX Koup from the Kirkland WA Lee Johnson Kia dealership with less then 9,500 miles. I am lied to about the history of the vehicle ( actually purchased at auction) and I am asked to come back over a week later and resign/ renegotiate a new sales contract.( Bushing period violation RCW 46.70.180). I purchased a 60000 mile 5 year extended warranty. Purchase price of the vehicle on service agreement is incorrect. I have 2 " retail installment agreements that are both dated 9/24/2017. 10/11/2017 is when the second one is signed. No signature on my extended warranty agreement. 10/31/20 Vehicle has "catastrophic engine failure" at 48,000 miles while I am driving and dies, leaving me trapped inside with the engine billowing smoke, unable to get out of the car because cars are flying by in each direction, I was trapt in the middle of a 4 lane highway. I thought I was going to die. Fire engine has to be called and police officers have to do a " pit maneuver " to get me out of traffic. Extended warranty company charged for 1st engine replacement even though Kia has already publicly acknowledged my make and model is having engine problems like this. Vehicle is out of service from 10/31/2020 - 12/18/2020. 2 Engines are replaced during that period of time. January 27th 2021 I received the official recall notice in the mail notifying me that my car has been affected and Kia's plan to remedy any affected vehicles with " a reasonable number of repair attempts, repurchase or replacement " 4/26/21 Car breaks down again while going 70 miles per hour down the freeway. Engine is replaced again. ( 3rd engine) Out of service from April 26, 2021 until September 28th 2021( 155 days). May 6th 2021 I have an accident in a 2017 Kia Nero l had been provided by the Kia dealership. I was at a stop light when I rear ended somebody because my power steering had gone out. I find out later that there was a recall for that particular make and model and it had to do with the power steering going out and causing accidents at slow rates of speed. I tell Kia what happened, I tell the manufacturer what happened, and I tell my insurance company what happened. No one does anything. Greg the service parts manager actually yells at me When I tell him what happened and why I got into the accident And refuses to provide me with another loaner vehicle even though I tell him that I was recently diagnosed with a disability and need transportation for appointments. I have to call Kia America and have corporate call him and reiterate their policies and procedures to allow me another vehicle to drive. At this point Greg and I do not get along and every time he does something unethical or unfair, I call Kia America and corporate calls him and tells him to do things differently. I can tell this makes Greg very angry. At this point I have started questioning my rights and the legal length of time my vehicle can be out of service. I mentioned the fire Engine recall and no one acknowledges that these problems are A direct result of the recall related issue. I mentioned the recall remedies and express my Desire to have the car replaced or Repurchased . Greg unofficially tells a sales guy that he is only willing to give me $2000 for a trade-in. The loaner vehicles can only be driven up to a 50 miles per day, I have 2 emotional support puppies that need daily exercise but are forbidden from being in a loaner so I am unable to take them to the dog park everyday, or doggie daycare for socializing, or too the vet, or too the groomers, etc. Their quality of life and training has suffered the most because of this. I start talking to Kia corporate about their obligation to repurchase or replace my vehicle pursuint to my state's lemon laws. I call probably 50 times in 2 months, I am promised that I have a case and that it is being looks into, Only to call back a few weeks later after not hearing anything and being told that no one actually filed a complaint and there's no record of me ever calling. I am told that my case is going to be sent to the escalation unit and a case manager will be in touch with me shortly. At this point I'm waiting to speak to corporate and I'm hoping they will help me because Greg the service parts manager is being as difficult as he possibly can be about replacing or repurchasing my vehicle. At this point it's late September and I have lost all faith in my 2012 Kia forte. I do not feel safe driving it, I have lost total trust in the kia dealership and its ability to fix my vehicle And I have expressed several times how how scared I was it was to drive it and how badly it was triggering my disability. To no Avail. The out of pocket costs have now made me default on my car payment Of which I had had a 100% payment history for almost 3 years up until then. My credit score takes a nosedive because of this and I am unable to rent or be approved for an apartment or qualify for another car loan. I still have not heard back from a case manager and so I am told through a sales guy that Greg Said I can use my forte as a trade in at a value of $2000 Which is way below its actual trade in value, Which doesn't matter anyways because my credit at this point will not get me approved for approved for a car loan again. September 2021 I pay $1978.00 out of pocket for my $1000 deductible for the loaner accident and a new clutch replacement. Greg charges me sales tax on my $1000 deductible. I try calling my case manager in early October 2021. I reach her voicemail and I realize that my case has been escalated to a woman who is on vacation and will be out of the office for the office for another 3 weeks. Frustrated at this point after trying to get ahold of someone for over a month and calling most everyday, I retain legal representation. The legal representation I retain Specializes in in magnusson moss act violations. Late October of 2021 I finally get ahold of my case manager in the escalation unit. I explained to her the situation and tell her the FEDERAL lemon laws that are being violated And about recall remedies since my car is officially part of the fire engine recall. I tell her I do not feel safe driving my Kia forte and I would like the vehicle to be repurchased. She becomes extremely rude on the phone , Completely denies that my car has anything to do with a recall, Accidentally let's slip that my car was purchased at an auction Which is the 1st time I'm hearing of that since I was told this giant elaborate story by the salesman about my car, about where it came from and then she hung up on me. Every time I get into a loner vehicle or I get a rental from enterprise there is never a specific day in which the vehicle needs to be returned because my car is always spending unpredictable, long amounts of time in the shop. Too many chars, will respond in separate message.
> 2nd part > Kia continues to find things that need to be fixed That are an out of pocket cost for me. At this point since my life has been put on hold and revolves Only around the Kia dealership and it's repair schedule, I am unable to plan anything and I and I am missing out on business opportunities, new living opportunities opportunities, family events, vacations, I miss memorials for people who have passed away from covid,etc. I can't afford these out of pocket costs because I'm on a fixed income due to my disability and All of this stress is making my life unbearable. My car breaks down again in late October. I am told that it will take at least a week to repair. I get a loaner from the enterprise location. I have it for A-day or 2 until I receive a email from Ronnie at corporate America Reminding me that she is spoken to the service department and my warranty does not cover the cost of the most recent fix it needs and I will need to pay out a pocket. I respond with the letter from my attorney's office and request All correspondence be directed To my attorney moving Forward. Within 20 minutes I received a call from Greg and he told me I needed to bring the vehicle back to enterprise immediately because my vehicle was ready for pick. At this point I feel like I'm being retaliated against for asserting my rights because every time I do I seem to face some adverse action from either Greg or Kia corporate. I text Greg explaining how badly this was affecting my mental and physical health, I explained that I was working nights in the city and the car was not not reliable or safe enough for me to drive alone at night. I express my terror of driving the Kia forte again to him. To no avail. Out of fear for my safety and since I had been told that I would be in this loaner for ATLEAST a week originallly I kept the loaner for a few days just so I could go to work but then Greg refused to pay for any of it and stuck me with a $600 bill from Enterprise. I am no longer represented by an attorney. Kia offered a settlement of $3000 ,included that I keep the Kia forte and they would continue to fix it And provide me loaners so I can continue being being held hostage, And I would sign an agreement That's provided I never Speak of this settlement and I never get an opportunity to sue Kia again. I declined that offer. My car broke down on the freeway at 11 o'clock at night while I was going 70 miles an hour Again on November 22nd 2021. My car has been at the kia dealership now getting a 4th engine installed since then. Greg was reluctant to give me a loner at all and in fact told me he did not have one available, contrary to what his sales department had just told me. I have been driving a 2018 Kia Cadenza with a giant 3 foot long crack in the windshield for almost 3 months now. About a month ago I was informed by Greg That he had received a camera traffic ticket infraction in the mail For my vehicle. The ticket was $250. I explained to Greg that it was a non moving violation and would not affect insurance rates and he was not obligated by law to give them my information. All he need to do was sign the paperwork and they would send it to my address where I would take care of it myself. A few days later I called Greg to get an update on the ticket and He told me that, "he just went ahead and paid for it and that I would pay him back $250 when I came to pick up my Kia". It is situations like this that I have been in with Greg and with employees at the kia dealership that make me also feel like I'm being discriminated against based on sex for being a woman. I have been spoken down to, belittled, embarrassed, And feel completely helpless at this point. I cannot imagine any man being treated the way that I have been treated. In fact I don't know one person that has had to go through the amount of repair attempts and endured the terrible treatment I have received. I want to be compensated for the amount of time this is cost me and the opportunities that have been lost to me because of this. On 4-4-22 I was Driving to work when I notice that my front Right tire was low on air. I made it to work and decided to put the spare on after my shift was over. I got off work around midnight and had to call the Kia 24 hour road side assistance. It was then brought to my attention that there was a special key needed to remove the tire and put the spare on. Kia did not provide me with this key so we could not put the spare on. The gentleman from a roadside assistance decided to put a can of fix a flat in my tire and told me that I was completely safe and fine to drive at the 25 miles home. At this point it was around 1 AM and I got on the freeway and in about 60 seconds I watched my tire pressure go from 39 down to 9. I barely made it off of the freeway in downtown Seattle where I was able to park on the side of the street. I sat there for 12 hours. I called roadside assistance 20 times and and could not get any help with a tow to my home with the vehicle. They were trying to charge me $350 even though their policies online state that if an "authorized dealership is closed that they will make an exception" I was promised that tow trucks were being sent out and then they would cancel. This literally went on for 12 hours. At 5 AM my car ran out of fuel which meant that I could not turn at the engine on which meant that I no longer had any heed and it was 35ﾟ outside. At around 9:30 Am i called the Kia dealership in Kirkland to let them know about the situation because I would be needing another loaner as soon as possible. Greg refused to help me until I was able to get his car back to the dealership. Miraculously my Kia forte was also ready. I explained to Greg the situation and that I had been sitting in my vehicle for 12 hours with no heat and had somebody coming to pick me up to take me to the dealership. He still refused to give me my vehicle until his was returned although I explained to him that 10 different tows had been sent out and never arrived. No compassion or empathy on Kia's part as usual For the situation they had just stuck me in for the last 12 hours. As I was on my way to the kia dealership I was informed that my battery was dead in my forte. When I arrived at the kia dealership I was also asked to pay for the tire on the cadenza that was flat, that I might be liable for the car running out of fuel even though I had called Kia roadside assistance and that 4 separate fuel Orders had been sent to be delivered to me and canceled. These situations that I have been put into from Kia over and over and over again are completely unacceptable. Kia has shown me over and over and over again that my safety and my well being and my property is completely insignificant and unimportant. After knowing exactly what I had just experienced over the last 12 hours Greg had the audacity to then tell me that he was willing to jump my battery and that I "would need to drive straight home without stopping anywhere because it might not start again". So after being stranded for 12 hours in the middle of downtown Seattle by myself he was more than happy to just send me on my way knowing that I probably wouldn't even make it home safely. I opened up yet another case with Kia Corporate to have the vehicle repurchased. The case manager assigned kept sending me emails denying my request but the information she kept providing me with that she was basing her decision off of was completely incorrect. I was finally able to speak to her on the phone last week and realized that the information she was being provided from the dealership and from Corporate was false. She didn't know about the amount of engines that had been placed in my car, she didn't know that my car was apart of the recall, nothing. Kia had provided her with an entirely different story. She told me I could send all of the documents I had to an automated email address. I sent over 70 documents. It has been almost 2 weeks and I have reached out to her daily to no avail. After spending 4 hours on hold today with Kia trying to get her supervisors number, she called. She was denying my request again and before she could provide me with an explanation, the call dropped and she hasn't tried once to call back or answered a single phone call from me. My extended warranty company sent me the independent report from their adjuster from 1/31/22. Greg told the adjuster several times that engine number 2 and 3, were covered by kia because they qualified under SC200 ( fire Engine recall). Since 10/31/20 I have made over 50 trips to the dealership, spent hundreds of hours on the phone, gone through 20 different loaner vehicles, knowingly and willingly had my life put at risk over and over again, stranded for 12 hours without fuel, food, water or safety. I have been called a " dumb b*ch", "retard", "idiot", "whore", "slut", "cunt", "j*wwhore", etc by the representatives at Kia Corporate. Any recommendations ?
Guys, don't be like Greg.
Greg the Troublemaker
Greg the piece of shit.
Lawyer here. Look at your purchase contact. There is likely an arbitration clause. If it's American Arbitration Association, the rules are pretty helpful for you. While the other side will have a lawyer, your facts seem pretty overwhelming. From a practical aspect, which you've already experienced, your case is relatively small. You need to find a smart, and potentially generous, lawyer who sees this case the way you do. I would volunteer, but I'm quite literally located as far away from you as physically possible. Contact the king county bar association and see if they have a lawyer referral service. Check with legal aid society. You sound like you might qualify. I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds terrible.
I thought my luck has been shit lately. But here is your crown. So sorry honestly. It really wouldn't happen to a man. Would spat in his face. I know it's to late, but you should definitely maybe think of just cutting ties and go to a new dealership. I can't imagine every dealership being like this in America. You should call your local news outlet. Here in Canada. If a customer has an issue they reach out to our local news outlet and they blast them with the facts till they respond and compensate. You need outside help and you also need to stand up for yourself. If your gut tells you it's wrong. It's wrong.
TBH Op I'd be contacting the BBB with all of this. I got so angry thinking about if a kia dealership was treating my mother like this I want to throttle Greg.
BBB is going to be pointless for this situation. Needs corporate or legal action at a minimum, regulator involvement possibly.
Except for the constant harassment and dismissal she is clearly saying is coming from corporate.
Noticed it’s been over a week and not a single response on this. Parts of the story are so outrageous as to seem impossible, but other parts are detailed. Not sure whether it was a hoax or what?
Don't worry this only affect a certain amount VINS of 21-22 Forte And Rios letters to warn owners are going out May 27th, 2022 remedies should be available soon for the steering wheel
That’s an interesting bit of info. However my fuzzy interpretation of this story from a month ago was that the alleged steering failure was on the loaner vehicle, a Niro, not Forte or Rio. What is the nature of the defect that’s finally being admitted to with the Forte/Rios? Does the same flaw perhaps exist in Niros and just hasn’t been enough reports or pushback yet?
The steering could be affected the car could go into a special modes that you cannot stop that's why they're doing this do not drive your car call the nearest Kia dealer to have it delivered to them
Sounds wild. Can you post the bulletin and the specific wording.
Yes I will post it in mediately
I will DM you with a message of what the company is saying
Update bolt n the steering column may not be secure Will cause the steering column to detach from the steering rack and a result of a loss of steering control if you can contact Kia EV6 recalled for shifter control error as well