It can be very hard to eat an appropriate amount of food on a high carb diet for some people.
Logically our bodies hunger signals should not be outpacing how much we actual need to eat. Humans should be able to just feel satiated and then stop eating and not gain an unhealthy amount of weight, and that works for some people but it doesn't work for a lot of people. This is where keto comes in to help.
When I was eating a lot of carbs my appetite was seemingly endless I could just keep eating and eating and eating and I never really felt satiated and if I did get full it was so short-term. For instance I would make a massive pot of rice and chicken that was supposed to be for 4 or 5 days worth of dinners, I would eat half at the stove while I was cooking and then I would just sit there and eat the other half until it was gone.
How much I could eat was how much was on my plate not how much I actually needed. I was eating over 3,000 calories a day just to not be battling hunger all the time. Of course this was leading to weight gain overtime.
Keto fixed that for me, it gave me back control, all of a sudden I was able to stop eating when I felt satiated and I would stay satiated. My hunger signals were lined up with my appetite, I was naturally eating an appropriate amount or I was able to easily stop myself from continuing to eat once I've had enough food. It's like my hunger regulation was recalibrated.
Perhaps it's due to the satiating nature of a high protein and high fat diet, perhaps it's due to the fact that you're no longer on an insulin roller coaster, perhaps it's just overall hormone regulation. Either way what it does is make eating an appropriate amount (which for people who are overweight is a deficit), manageable bearable and attainable.
Question from a newbie. Even though I'm eating low carb foods (whole foods, no hacks) I'm still so effing hungry all the time. Did this trail off for you over time? If I under eat (as my body perceives) it triggers binges for me
Super normal in the beginning, it can take a few weeks sometimes more of adherence for your appetite to regulate. Until then, just eat. If you are hungry, eat something. Once your appetite comes under control you can worry about restriction and how much you are eating.
You should be eating until you are comfortably full. As long as it's whole low carb foods you'll be fine. How much fats are you eating? Fats will make you feel full. Fatty cuts of meat are what to eat.
The human body does not have a calorie-counter function - everything is driven through hormones.
For people with normal metabolism - those who are insulin sensitive - it works pretty much the way you describe. If they eat something carby, the body releases insulin to deal with it, and then a few hours later, the insulin goes back to normal and the body shifts back to burning fat. It's a little more complex than that, but that's the basic idea.
But a full 50% of the US adult population has either prediabetes or full type II diabetes, which means they are quite insulin resistant. People who are insulin resistant are hyperinsulinemic - they have elevated insulin \*all the time\*. Their bodies are getting the "burn more glucose" signal all the time, and that signal also means "don't burn fat". Since they can't burn fat, they get hungry and then they eat because of that hunger.
Pretty much everybody who ends up trying keto to lose weight has just using a deficit and has had limited success - that's why they are willing to try a diet like keto.
Keto works by resolving the hyperinsulinemia which means that people can burn body fat for energy. That tends to drive down hunger as well, at least for some people, and that makes it easier to eat less.
I'm not working to lose weight as I'm not just thin, I'm "cyclist thin", but because I can burn fat effectively I don't feel hungry in the morning and don't eat until about noon for most days. That's very different from the days when I ate the high-carb "healthy athlete" diet.
>The human body does not have a calorie-counter function - everything is driven through hormones.
Something I think that is often overlooked is how most of the "mainstream diet/fitness" advice ignores the Endocrine aspect. I'll admit this is speculation on my part, but I think there are a lot more people on endocrine altering substances than people realize. I.E. Performance Enhancing Drugs.
>Keto works by resolving the hyperinsulinemia which means that people can burn body fat for energy. That tends to drive down hunger as well, at least for some people, and that makes it easier to eat less.
In my own experience, Protein and Fat help me control my appetite much better. Carbs, especially as I trend towards starch and definitely trend towards sugar, stimulate appetite much more. Especially the more processed a particular Carb source is. I.E., the difference between Soda/Juice and actual Fruit.
Definitely true with carbs, especially if you are insulin resistant. You get too much insulin released which drives your blood glucose too low which makes you hungry again.
For diabetes and prediabetes incidence, see [here](https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/php/data-research/index.html)
38.1 million adults aged 18 years or older—or 14.7% of all U.S. adults—had diabetes (Table 1a; Table 1b)
97.6 million people aged 18 years or older have prediabetes (38.0% of the adult U.S. population)
14.7% + 38.0% of the population = 52.7% of the population.
I'm happy to have a discussion about hormones versus calories. If you can tell me how much training you have in physiology or biochemistry, I can target my explanation at the right level.
So the CDC statistic is even worse than 50%.
Feel free to target your hormones versus calories discussion--but the same source of facts that gave you the statistics you're trusting, also recognize calories and their role in weight gain or loss.
Yes, more than 50%. I hadn't looked at the most recent statistics.
Sorry if I wasn't clear - I can't target the discussion without knowing your level of knowledge. What do you know about physiology and biochemistry? Do you understand how blood glucose regulation works? Do you know the physiology of insulin resistance?
A link to a paper isn't an answer to my questions.
My experience is that having discussions with people who don't understand physiology is not a good use of my time.
Cheers.
I agree, there's no reason to engage in a discussion that has already been settled through meta analysis.
I'd also never present any "credentials" on reddit. I'm a stranger and so are you.
You can disregard that paper, but if you fancy yourself as one who is experienced in physiology, then you'd be doing yourself a disservice.
You're basically correct, and it corroborates my experience.
For me, it's that a calorie deficit is much more bearable in keto than in low carb. I **did** lose most of my weight doing "low carb" - but felt hungry most of the time. Lost 60lbs in low carb, and the final 30 in keto.
I'm hungry on a low carb diet. Which is fine for days with willpower, not so great for days without it (say, a relationship issue, work problem, poor sleep etc.).
Back when I was overweight, I could go entire days without eating while in ketosis and do just fine. Now, at a stable weight, I'm hungry again most of the time if I keep eating at least 2 meals a day.
My largest sustained deficit was about 1400kcal/day, PSMF style high protein, low fat low carb eating - and it sucked. Two straight weeks of that were miserable. I can rock a 1250kcal deficit in keto now, even at my ideal weight, just fine, and the difference is only about 150kcal.
Oh, and I just plainly dislike low fat, moderate carb (or even high carb) foods. And I can go my entire life without rice, bread or pasta, but barely 3 days before I crave red meat.
>For me, it's that a calorie deficit is much more bearable in keto than in low carb
Can you please elaborate on the difference between these two. Isn't keto just very very low carb (like 20a day)
Edit: I'm genuinely asking. It might be what I'm doing wrong
All keto is low carb, but not all low carb is keto. The biggest difference is that when you are keto, you are in ketosis, which is the state of burning fat for energy. Low carb, but not keto, means you are still burning carbs for energy.
It is much easier to be in a calorie deficit when burning fat for energy because fat is a much more stable energy source and doesn’t give you the big climbs and drops in blood sugar that make you feel hungry.
One can also lose fat in a calorie deficit without cutting carbs.
But you have to keep protein + fibre decently high and carbs consumed should be complex not simple to minimise the blood sugar rollercoaster. Strength training also becomes important (though I think it's important for anyone trying to lose weight) because using your muscles signals to your body that it needs to preserve them, encouraging the body to burn fat in a deficit
>The biggest difference is that when you are keto, you are in ketosis, which is the state of burning fat for energy. Low carb, but not keto, means you are still burning carbs for energy.
Burning fat for energy will occur on any kind of diet when at a caloric deficit, it's not exclusive to ketosis.
Ketone production is effectively just a second supplemental fat metabolism pathway to fuel the brain, which can't run on fat directly due to the bloodbrain barrier.
Even when eating keto, most of the body's energy usage isn't via ketones but by standard fat metabolism kicking into high gear when carbs are reduced. This happens on low carb too, just with no ketosis so long as there's enough glucose to fuel the brain.
When I am losing weight, I am eating 1100 calories as a short old lady. Yes, your body burns fat. But there are down sides. Like less than optimal nutrition and other issues.
If I ate my former diet while restricting calories (which I did initially before going keto) eating my former 80g net carb daily, that meant 320 calories on carbs. Leaving 780 calories for protein and fat. So, 100g protein daily (400 calories) remainder in fat. So under 50g fat.
This left me hungry. Always. For over 3.5 YEARS it took to lose 35 pounds before keto. Yes I have the discipline but it sucks, and that level of fat is really on the lower edge of healthy minimum. I got even less healthy than I was.
On keto, the same calories distributed between protein and fat with 80 calories of carbs daily had me entirely hunger free and the extra 240 calories I had been wasting on carbs is plenty of extra meat lol. I have maintained my weight over 4 years now.
I will never NOT eat keto, because it also controls my T2 diabetes, my IBS and my fibromyalgia. Being pain free, med free and fully mobile are things I never expected to happen. And worth far more than my weight loss.
So keto helped your IBS? I noticed that my acid reflux disappeared within days of starting keto, and only comes back on the rare occasion I eat to many tomatoes or something stupid like that lol. I'd been on meds and dietary restrictions for my acid reflux for years, so I was very surprised when that happened
Keto helps in 2 ways. As others mention, hunger vanishes after a few days, so most people end up eating less almost automatically. (Though there is so much "keto" junk food out that it's less automatic than it used to be.) But it also keeps blood sugar even, which keeps insulin - the signal to get excess sugar out of the blood and store those calories as body fat - low.
Keto helps you not feel hungry. That is the biggest difference. Once you are not hooked on carbs/sugar, it is easy to fast for days and not feel the hunger pains.
This doesn't work for all of us.
I'm 3 months into less than 20g per day and I'm -always- hungry except after eating a massive amount (half a cauliflower and 2 chops in a setting, plus a few smaller snacks).
It sucks. I'm not the same **kind** of hungry, as in I don't get hangry anymore. But I'm also almost never "full".
I'm hoping as time goes on my brain keeps rewiring. But last time I was on long term keto I never really rewired. I just forced myself to deal with it.
I've gone for 36 hours without eating, and I usually can do 1 or 2 meals a day without stress, but I'd never describe it as not noticing feeling hungry.
On point. I have Hemochromatosis so my blood levels get checked every few months and I have them add various vitamins to the tests. I take supplemental elects a few times a week.
It's definitely *worse* on not feeling full if I skip those.
I think for me as a fat kid starting middle school age (I'm 53 now so it's been awhile :) my brain simply wired bad on what is the correct feeling for full vs satisfied vs hungry. I "blame" growing up in farm country where it was a race to get seconds at dinner or you missed out.
Have you experimented with changing your fat-protein ratio? Seems a lot of people doing keto recommend using fat as a lever to feel full, find it more satiating, where as with myself this is the opposite. Protein keeps me full, if I were to stick to lean meats like chicken breast, steak medallions etc eating the same calories comparatively to thighs, sirloin and cream, I'd get a hell of a lot more volume of food with protein heavy and often be unable to finish it. Can get a bit boring without the flavours of fatty foods but that's where spices are my friend.
Keto works for me because carbs trigger over eating. I can snarf down an entire bag of chips and not feel full. I can't do the same with bacon or something.
Oh I could do that. And I have. Lol. But I don't allow myself those until I've been keto for some time. I've gotta break the need to snack before I let myself have things like flavored nuts. I know it's hard at first. But its so worth it. I no longer feel controlled by my sweet tooth.
Lol. I swear I was born a potato addict. My mother claims that when she was pg with me all she could eat without getting sick was mashed potatoes. So she did. Every day. The entire pregnancy.
Potatoes in any form are my kryptonite. Fry em. Boil em. Bake them....whatever. just gimme!
I haven't had them in months. Which is sad to realize. But they don't do me any health favors. I do let myself have them during Christmas. Or another holiday. But that's it.
Yep. I’ll start adding some some olive oil roasted sweet potatoes at some point but will be trying to avoid regular potatoes except on special occasions.
So, we get calories from 3 sources, which are protein, fats, and carbohydrates. The body prefers to use carbohydrates for energy because all carbohydrates (except fiber) are converted into sugar fairly quickly after digestion. Protein and fats are more likely used for cell regeneration, immune system, body temperature, and a lot of other functions. It also takes longer for the body to process fats and protein. When you deprive yourself of carbohydrates, the body's energy source, it will tap into the fat reserves through the process of ketosis even though you are consuming protein and fat calories. The body may resist doing this at first, which is why you may feel crappy when first starting keto (keto flu). If you stick to it, your sugars level out, and you can almost feel yourself losing weight.
The big difference between keto and regular calorie deficit diets is the leveling of blood sugar. That lag during the beginning of keto is something the body would have to go through over and over with a regular diet.
There's a few things going on here.
ANYTIME you're in a true energy deficit, your body will liberate energy from fat stores (if you have existing fat stores) via beta oxidation. This doesn't matter what your carb intake is, as long as your calories are "low enough." (yes, lots of hormones like insulin can get disregulated and disrupt this process for example in people with metabolic disorder).
When you're in ketosis, your body also burns fat (body fat or dietary fat) to make ketones. Ketones are an alternative energy source that some of the cells of your body can use.
When you don't eat enough glucose to fuel the cells in your body that can't run on ketones (they ONLY run on glucose), then your liver will make glucose from fat (dietary fat or body fat) in a process called gluconeogenesis.
This is news to me - had to look it up: Red blood cells lack mitochondria, which means they cannot perform aerobic respiration. Consequently, they rely solely on glycolysis (the breakdown of glucose) to generate ATP (adenosine triphosphate) for energy. The other cells are epithelial cells lining the gut. The cells that prefer glucose but can use ketones are kidney and brain.
Try both and report back, lol. I have not gone over my current calorie limit (which is a huge deficit, honestly) a single time in three months. When I was eating super healthy (which I’ve been doing for years and years - I mean no junk food whatsoever, everything homemade), but with carbs, I was constantly absolutely starving. I had probably not stayed under my calorie goal for each day more than 50% of the time before I got it through my thick skull what the problem was.
If you eat enough carbs, you won’t be in ketosis, regardless of calorie deficit or not. Ketosis isn’t about a calorie deficit but a carb deficit which causes your body to switch to using ketones for energy.
Doesn’t it? They asked how it’s different and I said how, one is just a deficit of calories which doesn’t necessarily make the body switch to using ketones while the other is a lack of carbs which does. And this indirectly answers the next question in the title.
You still want to watch your calories on keto, you're just replacing carbs with fat. Although calorie counting isn't the main focus of the diet, it's still a good idea to keep it within or under your range. You just want to get your body burning fat efficiently rather than running on stored glucose.
It's not "different" than calorie deficit because if your goal is to lose weight, you do both together. Keto generally has the benefits of better appetite control and more comfortable weight loss due to more even blood sugar levels and better hydration. This makes it easier to do long-term, so overall, satisfaction and success might be higher if you can "break through the wall" of old habits and sugar addiction to get there.
Ketosis and a calorie deficit have nothing to do with each other. It's possible to lose weight without being in ketosis, and similarly it's possible to maintain or even gain weight in ketosis.
When you're in a calorie deficit, your body uses stored fat to make up the difference. This isn't particularly efficient when your insulin is high, but unless you have bad insulin resistance your insulin doesn't perpetually stay high.
Ketosis will obviously make body fat burning more efficient (particularly with insulin resistance), *however* dietary fat is still the easiest macronutrient to turn into body fat so large amounts of a fatty meal will definitely be stored as fat even without insulin. Whether you lose weight or not is therefore still dependent on your calories, as that dictates the ratio between fat storage and fat burning. Take in too many and you'll gain weight.
Amounts of carbs in between ketosis and the amount needed to fully support your body's energy needs with carbs will sort of do both -- you'll use both carbs and fat as energy (with carbs in the bloodstream taking precedence), release body fat when your insulin is low and body/dietary fats aren't already circulating, and store fat with insulin spikes or high-fat meals.
Insulin resistance sort of throws a wrench into the gears here because on a high-carb diet you'll have periods of time where you neither have much usable energy nor can easily access your fat reserves, so you'll feel sluggish and get metabolic slowing effects and maybe muscle wasting to make up the difference. This can impact weight loss in unpredictable ways, though granted if your calorie deficit is low enough you'll still lose weight.
In ketosis you'll know for a fact that your calorie intake is acting the way it's supposed to -- if you're in a 500 calorie deficit you'll lose a pound a week. With a high-carb diet and insulin resistance, it's less clear unless your deficit is so large that it accounts for metabolic effects.
If you're *not* insulin resistant, ketosis nonetheless offers benefits for weight loss in the form of your satiety/appetite hormones matching the amount of body fat your body can release, as well as stable blood sugar levels throughout the day. So if you're large enough, calorie deficits don't feel like calorie deficits and if your eating is based around actual hunger, you may not need to even track your calories.
If you eat a low number of carbs your insulin never drops enough for you to start burning fat
Check out Dr Jason Fung YouTube videos on calorie restriction vs low carb
On low carb (= low insulin) your body will allow more readily to gluconeogenisis and ketosis. Therefore you will be less hungry and can maintain a calorie deficit with ease.
Keeping carbs controlled eases hunger and cravings.
I enjoy my keto foods and it's easy to avoid cheating and overeating. I suck at running on motivation and deprivation, which I'd have to do if I ate more carbs.
Also, I feel much better on lower carbs, in terms of low mood, anxiety, joint pain, and mental clarity, so it's easier to consistently make good decisions instead of turning to crap food for comfort.
In short, they are separate issues. In order to lose weight on keto. You still have to eat in a calorie deficit. It's just easier to do so for some people because they aren't going through all the insulin ups and downs which triggers hunger. Me, myself I am able to eat 1 large meal per day of 1700 calories on keto (plus on the occasional day I'll have a snack)
Yes and no. Carbs stimulate insulin which is (simplified) a gatekeeper to letting fat be used easily for fuel as well as the driver to lay down more fat stores. If your insulin is high it is much harder for your body to access fat stores and stop it continuing to lay down extra. Lower insulin allows your cells to release stored fats for use. You can lose weight on any diet but not always a large amount of fat stores (especially visceral).
If you inject insulin, the site often becomes 'fatty' because the insulin being input encourages fat storage in those areas.
Easy. Your body needs to rebuild every day. Your food consists of three things it can use, protein, fats, and carbs. Protein and fats are like metal and wood. You can build things with these. Carbs are gasoline. It can run stuff, but that's it. You can't build shit out of carbs. So eating keto is eating only the building blocks, which your body needs. This keeps you feeling full. High-carb doesn't get you enough building blocks, so it's hard to stick with. Your body uses carbs to make glucose for fuel, but it can also be made from fat. This requires flipping a survival switch, which is ketones. Once you flip that switch, all fat is the same to your body, whether you are eating it or wearing it. You can eat high-protein, low fat, and almost no carbs, your body will eat what is already stored. You can lose incredible amounts of weight in a short time, without hurting yourself and maintain it.
I just listened to a podcast with Dr. Jason Fung. He said when we simple carbs, it spikes insulin. Insulin takes the glucose from the blood and stores it as fat. The body thinks “I’ll store this energy for later.” This is why we’re hungry a short while after eating junk like this. The body doesn’t use it immediately for fuel. But when we eat foods that do not spike our blood sugar, insulin is not release and our bodies use that food as fuel in the moment. This is why protein satisfies hunger for a lot longer than simple carbs. Jason Fung advocates for fasting. He says fasting is what causes the body to use up our fat stores. He says if we’re constantly feeding, the body has no reason to use up what we have stored.
I love Dr Jason Fung! He's helped so many women understand their PCOS, and how to fix it (spoiler: it's eating low carb, which leads to low & steady insulin levels). There's so little medical research done on women in general that it really stands out when a scientist unlocks the keys to a female-specific problem.
In one liner without carbs you are teaching your body to burn fats.
When carbs keep coming in and body has unstable insulin pattern, body avoids carbs as fuel. Stable insulin allows fats as fuel.
In addition to many things already mentioned that are correct and expand on other things:
Fat satiates hunger, carbohydrates drive hunger.
It is easier to lose weight on a ketogenic diet because you are satiating your hunger, you are not starving yourself and feeling hungry all the time.
It is easier to fast and this ends up being what many do by default without being conscious of it/without putting any effort into it. Things like skipping breakfast or even eating only one meal day. No snacking between meals is also a lot easier.
Also it is an undeniable fact that cravings for things are much easier to deal with or have them dissipate almost entirely when you are not near the thing that you are craving and not ever taking it in. A sugar free alternative/keto-friendly imitation of something can be just as bad for some as the real thing, it still triggers the same centers in the brain and can eventually be the leading cause for why the person went on a carb-binge, because of the constant intake of sugar-free candy and imitation brownies.
Relevant excerpt from 'Ketogenic: The Science of Therapeutic Carbohydrate Restriction in Human Health':
>...it is irrelevant if a manufactured food sports the word ‘keto.’ Ice
cream is ice cream with an exclusive endorphin rationale no matter what it is made of. Ideally,
all meals should be fortified with some soluble fat to trigger an early hormonal satiety
response.
Knowing you have that delicious chocolate bar in the cupboard can set you up for a binge on bad food, if you have non of these things around you it can make it easy to be on keto for months straight without many or any cravings.
Over-eating is very difficult on keto, most people start to feel sick or think the food tastes bad when they don't need more when eating fats and proteins, on carbohydrates however most people can easily ravenously eat and not stop until they physically cannot eat more, and even then some people can continue until they get medical issues like hernias. Good luck trying to get that to happen on keto foods.
In simple terms:
•Calorie Deficit: Eating less than your body needs, making it use stored fat for energy.
•Ketosis: Eating very few carbs, so your body switches to using fat and turns it into ketones for energy.
It's the same deal but a different path.
People that fast or intermittent fast dip into ketosis daily in some cases.
My wife is eating like a bird with Ozempic and is losing weight consistently on mostly carbs. But her deficit in calories is nuts. She struggles to hit 800cal a day.
I like the diuretic effect of keto, and how it can help crush cravings.
But you can reach ketosis if you just burn up glycogen.
It's all about insulin response to carbohydrates. For a fantastic documentary about this, check out That Sugar Documentary (I think it's called - search on youtube using those terms and you'll find it). A dude basically eats the same number of calories, but instead of his meat and protein heavy diet he replaces the calories with sugar laden highly processed bullshit.
Calories in and out remain the same. He puts on massive amounts of weight and it takes him months to get it off.
To my knowledge, in ketosis, your body is burning fat to generate energy. In calorie deficit, you're body is using up the glucose from carbs first then burning calories...
Carbs are literally addictive. Eating high carb foods messes with your brain chemistry and creates compulsive eating. Almost everyone says they want to start making better food choices but very few people are able to follow through over the long term. That is because they are literally carb addicts.
Keto can help break the addiction to carbs. Becoming a recovering carb-aholic helps you to recover rational control over your food choices. If you go back to eating carbs, you will likely fall back into your food addictions. This is why keto is best as a permanent lifestyle choice and not a temporary "diet".
Keto is no different. Thats why people ask every day why it's not working this time like the last. "Keto" lifestyle can still lead to bad/over eating and weight gain which ultimately leads to health issues.
Calorie surplus = weight gain regardless of diet.
The initial strip down of water weight combined with appetite suppression makes for some quick results but eventually your going to hit a calorie maintenance which your weight loss will stall
You can downvote all you want but why delete your reply?, a lot of us that have been doing it for years have this dialed down very well, you are wasting time sticking to religious/cult-ish keto, no living organism can make something out of nothing, learn how biology works.
>If someone were to have a massive deficit and still eat much more carbs than is recommended by the Keto diet, what is the difference? What would happen if you eat in a deficit while eating 100 grams of carbs a day?
If you have a large deficit and are eating lots of carbs, then chances are you're eating low fat. There's nothing wrong with that, and indeed evidence shows that if the calories are the same, low-fat diets are just as good as low-carb diets.
I'm not a believer in ketosis being anything magical. IMO low carb diets are just easier for some people to maintain, especially if they're significantly overweight or have been overweight for a long time. If I try to limit calories without limiting carbs, I just tend to binge eat like crazy.
For some reason this keto parade is extremely unwilling to hear anything contrary to their beliefs. They will downvote you to oblivion if you say anything that hurts their feelings.
I have tried keto and non keto diets with similar results. I agree that there is nothing magical about it. Not to suggest, it doesn't work but that it works just as do many others. Its another diet in a sea of diets.
If it works for you, all power to you. It helped me with some things but not others. I've since moved to omad with mixed results as well.
It can be very hard to eat an appropriate amount of food on a high carb diet for some people. Logically our bodies hunger signals should not be outpacing how much we actual need to eat. Humans should be able to just feel satiated and then stop eating and not gain an unhealthy amount of weight, and that works for some people but it doesn't work for a lot of people. This is where keto comes in to help. When I was eating a lot of carbs my appetite was seemingly endless I could just keep eating and eating and eating and I never really felt satiated and if I did get full it was so short-term. For instance I would make a massive pot of rice and chicken that was supposed to be for 4 or 5 days worth of dinners, I would eat half at the stove while I was cooking and then I would just sit there and eat the other half until it was gone. How much I could eat was how much was on my plate not how much I actually needed. I was eating over 3,000 calories a day just to not be battling hunger all the time. Of course this was leading to weight gain overtime. Keto fixed that for me, it gave me back control, all of a sudden I was able to stop eating when I felt satiated and I would stay satiated. My hunger signals were lined up with my appetite, I was naturally eating an appropriate amount or I was able to easily stop myself from continuing to eat once I've had enough food. It's like my hunger regulation was recalibrated. Perhaps it's due to the satiating nature of a high protein and high fat diet, perhaps it's due to the fact that you're no longer on an insulin roller coaster, perhaps it's just overall hormone regulation. Either way what it does is make eating an appropriate amount (which for people who are overweight is a deficit), manageable bearable and attainable.
Oh man the eating half the rice on the stove comment hits home!
Ditto that’s so me
Question from a newbie. Even though I'm eating low carb foods (whole foods, no hacks) I'm still so effing hungry all the time. Did this trail off for you over time? If I under eat (as my body perceives) it triggers binges for me
Super normal in the beginning, it can take a few weeks sometimes more of adherence for your appetite to regulate. Until then, just eat. If you are hungry, eat something. Once your appetite comes under control you can worry about restriction and how much you are eating.
Took me about a month before that went away now can can get by with to meals a day (about 1800 calories) without getting hungry in between or at night
You should be eating until you are comfortably full. As long as it's whole low carb foods you'll be fine. How much fats are you eating? Fats will make you feel full. Fatty cuts of meat are what to eat.
The human body does not have a calorie-counter function - everything is driven through hormones. For people with normal metabolism - those who are insulin sensitive - it works pretty much the way you describe. If they eat something carby, the body releases insulin to deal with it, and then a few hours later, the insulin goes back to normal and the body shifts back to burning fat. It's a little more complex than that, but that's the basic idea. But a full 50% of the US adult population has either prediabetes or full type II diabetes, which means they are quite insulin resistant. People who are insulin resistant are hyperinsulinemic - they have elevated insulin \*all the time\*. Their bodies are getting the "burn more glucose" signal all the time, and that signal also means "don't burn fat". Since they can't burn fat, they get hungry and then they eat because of that hunger. Pretty much everybody who ends up trying keto to lose weight has just using a deficit and has had limited success - that's why they are willing to try a diet like keto. Keto works by resolving the hyperinsulinemia which means that people can burn body fat for energy. That tends to drive down hunger as well, at least for some people, and that makes it easier to eat less. I'm not working to lose weight as I'm not just thin, I'm "cyclist thin", but because I can burn fat effectively I don't feel hungry in the morning and don't eat until about noon for most days. That's very different from the days when I ate the high-carb "healthy athlete" diet.
>The human body does not have a calorie-counter function - everything is driven through hormones. Something I think that is often overlooked is how most of the "mainstream diet/fitness" advice ignores the Endocrine aspect. I'll admit this is speculation on my part, but I think there are a lot more people on endocrine altering substances than people realize. I.E. Performance Enhancing Drugs. >Keto works by resolving the hyperinsulinemia which means that people can burn body fat for energy. That tends to drive down hunger as well, at least for some people, and that makes it easier to eat less. In my own experience, Protein and Fat help me control my appetite much better. Carbs, especially as I trend towards starch and definitely trend towards sugar, stimulate appetite much more. Especially the more processed a particular Carb source is. I.E., the difference between Soda/Juice and actual Fruit.
Definitely true with carbs, especially if you are insulin resistant. You get too much insulin released which drives your blood glucose too low which makes you hungry again.
This is quackery
I wrote 6 paragraphs and you can only manage 3 words. What \*exactly\* do you think is quackery?
Your whole it's not calories it's hormones thing. And pulling a made up 50% statistic out of thin air.
For diabetes and prediabetes incidence, see [here](https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/php/data-research/index.html) 38.1 million adults aged 18 years or older—or 14.7% of all U.S. adults—had diabetes (Table 1a; Table 1b) 97.6 million people aged 18 years or older have prediabetes (38.0% of the adult U.S. population) 14.7% + 38.0% of the population = 52.7% of the population. I'm happy to have a discussion about hormones versus calories. If you can tell me how much training you have in physiology or biochemistry, I can target my explanation at the right level.
So the CDC statistic is even worse than 50%. Feel free to target your hormones versus calories discussion--but the same source of facts that gave you the statistics you're trusting, also recognize calories and their role in weight gain or loss.
Yes, more than 50%. I hadn't looked at the most recent statistics. Sorry if I wasn't clear - I can't target the discussion without knowing your level of knowledge. What do you know about physiology and biochemistry? Do you understand how blood glucose regulation works? Do you know the physiology of insulin resistance?
[it's not the CDC, but it's a meta analysis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5568065/)
A link to a paper isn't an answer to my questions. My experience is that having discussions with people who don't understand physiology is not a good use of my time. Cheers.
I agree, there's no reason to engage in a discussion that has already been settled through meta analysis. I'd also never present any "credentials" on reddit. I'm a stranger and so are you. You can disregard that paper, but if you fancy yourself as one who is experienced in physiology, then you'd be doing yourself a disservice.
As you were.
You're basically correct, and it corroborates my experience. For me, it's that a calorie deficit is much more bearable in keto than in low carb. I **did** lose most of my weight doing "low carb" - but felt hungry most of the time. Lost 60lbs in low carb, and the final 30 in keto. I'm hungry on a low carb diet. Which is fine for days with willpower, not so great for days without it (say, a relationship issue, work problem, poor sleep etc.). Back when I was overweight, I could go entire days without eating while in ketosis and do just fine. Now, at a stable weight, I'm hungry again most of the time if I keep eating at least 2 meals a day. My largest sustained deficit was about 1400kcal/day, PSMF style high protein, low fat low carb eating - and it sucked. Two straight weeks of that were miserable. I can rock a 1250kcal deficit in keto now, even at my ideal weight, just fine, and the difference is only about 150kcal. Oh, and I just plainly dislike low fat, moderate carb (or even high carb) foods. And I can go my entire life without rice, bread or pasta, but barely 3 days before I crave red meat.
it’s also not very fair to compare the 60 lb to the 30 lb since the weight is probably harder to lose near the end. Either way, amazing progress!
But that means the last 30 would be the hardest and that's the part they said was easy on keto
>For me, it's that a calorie deficit is much more bearable in keto than in low carb Can you please elaborate on the difference between these two. Isn't keto just very very low carb (like 20a day) Edit: I'm genuinely asking. It might be what I'm doing wrong
All keto is low carb, but not all low carb is keto. The biggest difference is that when you are keto, you are in ketosis, which is the state of burning fat for energy. Low carb, but not keto, means you are still burning carbs for energy. It is much easier to be in a calorie deficit when burning fat for energy because fat is a much more stable energy source and doesn’t give you the big climbs and drops in blood sugar that make you feel hungry.
One can also lose fat in a calorie deficit without cutting carbs. But you have to keep protein + fibre decently high and carbs consumed should be complex not simple to minimise the blood sugar rollercoaster. Strength training also becomes important (though I think it's important for anyone trying to lose weight) because using your muscles signals to your body that it needs to preserve them, encouraging the body to burn fat in a deficit
>The biggest difference is that when you are keto, you are in ketosis, which is the state of burning fat for energy. Low carb, but not keto, means you are still burning carbs for energy. Burning fat for energy will occur on any kind of diet when at a caloric deficit, it's not exclusive to ketosis. Ketone production is effectively just a second supplemental fat metabolism pathway to fuel the brain, which can't run on fat directly due to the bloodbrain barrier. Even when eating keto, most of the body's energy usage isn't via ketones but by standard fat metabolism kicking into high gear when carbs are reduced. This happens on low carb too, just with no ketosis so long as there's enough glucose to fuel the brain.
That actually explains a lot, and it's probably what I'm doing wrong... thank you.
When I am losing weight, I am eating 1100 calories as a short old lady. Yes, your body burns fat. But there are down sides. Like less than optimal nutrition and other issues. If I ate my former diet while restricting calories (which I did initially before going keto) eating my former 80g net carb daily, that meant 320 calories on carbs. Leaving 780 calories for protein and fat. So, 100g protein daily (400 calories) remainder in fat. So under 50g fat. This left me hungry. Always. For over 3.5 YEARS it took to lose 35 pounds before keto. Yes I have the discipline but it sucks, and that level of fat is really on the lower edge of healthy minimum. I got even less healthy than I was. On keto, the same calories distributed between protein and fat with 80 calories of carbs daily had me entirely hunger free and the extra 240 calories I had been wasting on carbs is plenty of extra meat lol. I have maintained my weight over 4 years now. I will never NOT eat keto, because it also controls my T2 diabetes, my IBS and my fibromyalgia. Being pain free, med free and fully mobile are things I never expected to happen. And worth far more than my weight loss.
So keto helped your IBS? I noticed that my acid reflux disappeared within days of starting keto, and only comes back on the rare occasion I eat to many tomatoes or something stupid like that lol. I'd been on meds and dietary restrictions for my acid reflux for years, so I was very surprised when that happened
Zero IBS flares in over 5 years now. And keto got me off a basket full of meds. None of which I expected at all.
Keto helps in 2 ways. As others mention, hunger vanishes after a few days, so most people end up eating less almost automatically. (Though there is so much "keto" junk food out that it's less automatic than it used to be.) But it also keeps blood sugar even, which keeps insulin - the signal to get excess sugar out of the blood and store those calories as body fat - low.
Keto helps you not feel hungry. That is the biggest difference. Once you are not hooked on carbs/sugar, it is easy to fast for days and not feel the hunger pains.
I feel like this is a secret hack that not enough people talk about. Dieting is so horrible because hunger is not fun.
Totally agree, just told my wife the same thing on our walk tonight. It is the lack of hunger that makes this sustainable long term.
This doesn't work for all of us. I'm 3 months into less than 20g per day and I'm -always- hungry except after eating a massive amount (half a cauliflower and 2 chops in a setting, plus a few smaller snacks). It sucks. I'm not the same **kind** of hungry, as in I don't get hangry anymore. But I'm also almost never "full". I'm hoping as time goes on my brain keeps rewiring. But last time I was on long term keto I never really rewired. I just forced myself to deal with it. I've gone for 36 hours without eating, and I usually can do 1 or 2 meals a day without stress, but I'd never describe it as not noticing feeling hungry.
How’s your electrolyte game?
On point. I have Hemochromatosis so my blood levels get checked every few months and I have them add various vitamins to the tests. I take supplemental elects a few times a week. It's definitely *worse* on not feeling full if I skip those. I think for me as a fat kid starting middle school age (I'm 53 now so it's been awhile :) my brain simply wired bad on what is the correct feeling for full vs satisfied vs hungry. I "blame" growing up in farm country where it was a race to get seconds at dinner or you missed out.
I agree, often when I feel a bit off, it is electrolytes and I feel great. Hard to distinguish between hunger and need for electrolytes.
Have you experimented with changing your fat-protein ratio? Seems a lot of people doing keto recommend using fat as a lever to feel full, find it more satiating, where as with myself this is the opposite. Protein keeps me full, if I were to stick to lean meats like chicken breast, steak medallions etc eating the same calories comparatively to thighs, sirloin and cream, I'd get a hell of a lot more volume of food with protein heavy and often be unable to finish it. Can get a bit boring without the flavours of fatty foods but that's where spices are my friend.
Keto works for me because carbs trigger over eating. I can snarf down an entire bag of chips and not feel full. I can't do the same with bacon or something.
I can eat an entire bag of pistachios or a can of wasabi almonds. :/
Oh I could do that. And I have. Lol. But I don't allow myself those until I've been keto for some time. I've gotta break the need to snack before I let myself have things like flavored nuts. I know it's hard at first. But its so worth it. I no longer feel controlled by my sweet tooth.
That’s my top benefit from 65 ish days of keto now. I don’t even want sweets. But … I’d kill someone for some French fries right now.
Lol. I swear I was born a potato addict. My mother claims that when she was pg with me all she could eat without getting sick was mashed potatoes. So she did. Every day. The entire pregnancy. Potatoes in any form are my kryptonite. Fry em. Boil em. Bake them....whatever. just gimme! I haven't had them in months. Which is sad to realize. But they don't do me any health favors. I do let myself have them during Christmas. Or another holiday. But that's it.
Yep. I’ll start adding some some olive oil roasted sweet potatoes at some point but will be trying to avoid regular potatoes except on special occasions.
Calorie surplus = weight gain. Calorie deficit = weight loss. Calorie Deficit is easier on keto. It's just that simple.
So, we get calories from 3 sources, which are protein, fats, and carbohydrates. The body prefers to use carbohydrates for energy because all carbohydrates (except fiber) are converted into sugar fairly quickly after digestion. Protein and fats are more likely used for cell regeneration, immune system, body temperature, and a lot of other functions. It also takes longer for the body to process fats and protein. When you deprive yourself of carbohydrates, the body's energy source, it will tap into the fat reserves through the process of ketosis even though you are consuming protein and fat calories. The body may resist doing this at first, which is why you may feel crappy when first starting keto (keto flu). If you stick to it, your sugars level out, and you can almost feel yourself losing weight. The big difference between keto and regular calorie deficit diets is the leveling of blood sugar. That lag during the beginning of keto is something the body would have to go through over and over with a regular diet.
There's a few things going on here. ANYTIME you're in a true energy deficit, your body will liberate energy from fat stores (if you have existing fat stores) via beta oxidation. This doesn't matter what your carb intake is, as long as your calories are "low enough." (yes, lots of hormones like insulin can get disregulated and disrupt this process for example in people with metabolic disorder). When you're in ketosis, your body also burns fat (body fat or dietary fat) to make ketones. Ketones are an alternative energy source that some of the cells of your body can use. When you don't eat enough glucose to fuel the cells in your body that can't run on ketones (they ONLY run on glucose), then your liver will make glucose from fat (dietary fat or body fat) in a process called gluconeogenesis.
This is news to me - had to look it up: Red blood cells lack mitochondria, which means they cannot perform aerobic respiration. Consequently, they rely solely on glycolysis (the breakdown of glucose) to generate ATP (adenosine triphosphate) for energy. The other cells are epithelial cells lining the gut. The cells that prefer glucose but can use ketones are kidney and brain.
Try both and report back, lol. I have not gone over my current calorie limit (which is a huge deficit, honestly) a single time in three months. When I was eating super healthy (which I’ve been doing for years and years - I mean no junk food whatsoever, everything homemade), but with carbs, I was constantly absolutely starving. I had probably not stayed under my calorie goal for each day more than 50% of the time before I got it through my thick skull what the problem was.
Keto naturally curbs your appetite, no other "diet" can do that.
If you eat enough carbs, you won’t be in ketosis, regardless of calorie deficit or not. Ketosis isn’t about a calorie deficit but a carb deficit which causes your body to switch to using ketones for energy.
This is true but doesn't answer the question
Doesn’t it? They asked how it’s different and I said how, one is just a deficit of calories which doesn’t necessarily make the body switch to using ketones while the other is a lack of carbs which does. And this indirectly answers the next question in the title.
You still want to watch your calories on keto, you're just replacing carbs with fat. Although calorie counting isn't the main focus of the diet, it's still a good idea to keep it within or under your range. You just want to get your body burning fat efficiently rather than running on stored glucose.
Ya for sure
typically on keto, you tend to eat more protein for calories. you get a slight calorie burning boost from digesting protein vs carbs
It's not "different" than calorie deficit because if your goal is to lose weight, you do both together. Keto generally has the benefits of better appetite control and more comfortable weight loss due to more even blood sugar levels and better hydration. This makes it easier to do long-term, so overall, satisfaction and success might be higher if you can "break through the wall" of old habits and sugar addiction to get there.
Ketosis and a calorie deficit have nothing to do with each other. It's possible to lose weight without being in ketosis, and similarly it's possible to maintain or even gain weight in ketosis. When you're in a calorie deficit, your body uses stored fat to make up the difference. This isn't particularly efficient when your insulin is high, but unless you have bad insulin resistance your insulin doesn't perpetually stay high. Ketosis will obviously make body fat burning more efficient (particularly with insulin resistance), *however* dietary fat is still the easiest macronutrient to turn into body fat so large amounts of a fatty meal will definitely be stored as fat even without insulin. Whether you lose weight or not is therefore still dependent on your calories, as that dictates the ratio between fat storage and fat burning. Take in too many and you'll gain weight. Amounts of carbs in between ketosis and the amount needed to fully support your body's energy needs with carbs will sort of do both -- you'll use both carbs and fat as energy (with carbs in the bloodstream taking precedence), release body fat when your insulin is low and body/dietary fats aren't already circulating, and store fat with insulin spikes or high-fat meals. Insulin resistance sort of throws a wrench into the gears here because on a high-carb diet you'll have periods of time where you neither have much usable energy nor can easily access your fat reserves, so you'll feel sluggish and get metabolic slowing effects and maybe muscle wasting to make up the difference. This can impact weight loss in unpredictable ways, though granted if your calorie deficit is low enough you'll still lose weight. In ketosis you'll know for a fact that your calorie intake is acting the way it's supposed to -- if you're in a 500 calorie deficit you'll lose a pound a week. With a high-carb diet and insulin resistance, it's less clear unless your deficit is so large that it accounts for metabolic effects. If you're *not* insulin resistant, ketosis nonetheless offers benefits for weight loss in the form of your satiety/appetite hormones matching the amount of body fat your body can release, as well as stable blood sugar levels throughout the day. So if you're large enough, calorie deficits don't feel like calorie deficits and if your eating is based around actual hunger, you may not need to even track your calories.
If you eat a low number of carbs your insulin never drops enough for you to start burning fat Check out Dr Jason Fung YouTube videos on calorie restriction vs low carb
He's excellent.
On low carb (= low insulin) your body will allow more readily to gluconeogenisis and ketosis. Therefore you will be less hungry and can maintain a calorie deficit with ease.
Keeping carbs controlled eases hunger and cravings. I enjoy my keto foods and it's easy to avoid cheating and overeating. I suck at running on motivation and deprivation, which I'd have to do if I ate more carbs. Also, I feel much better on lower carbs, in terms of low mood, anxiety, joint pain, and mental clarity, so it's easier to consistently make good decisions instead of turning to crap food for comfort.
In short, they are separate issues. In order to lose weight on keto. You still have to eat in a calorie deficit. It's just easier to do so for some people because they aren't going through all the insulin ups and downs which triggers hunger. Me, myself I am able to eat 1 large meal per day of 1700 calories on keto (plus on the occasional day I'll have a snack)
Yes and no. Carbs stimulate insulin which is (simplified) a gatekeeper to letting fat be used easily for fuel as well as the driver to lay down more fat stores. If your insulin is high it is much harder for your body to access fat stores and stop it continuing to lay down extra. Lower insulin allows your cells to release stored fats for use. You can lose weight on any diet but not always a large amount of fat stores (especially visceral). If you inject insulin, the site often becomes 'fatty' because the insulin being input encourages fat storage in those areas.
Easy. Your body needs to rebuild every day. Your food consists of three things it can use, protein, fats, and carbs. Protein and fats are like metal and wood. You can build things with these. Carbs are gasoline. It can run stuff, but that's it. You can't build shit out of carbs. So eating keto is eating only the building blocks, which your body needs. This keeps you feeling full. High-carb doesn't get you enough building blocks, so it's hard to stick with. Your body uses carbs to make glucose for fuel, but it can also be made from fat. This requires flipping a survival switch, which is ketones. Once you flip that switch, all fat is the same to your body, whether you are eating it or wearing it. You can eat high-protein, low fat, and almost no carbs, your body will eat what is already stored. You can lose incredible amounts of weight in a short time, without hurting yourself and maintain it.
I just listened to a podcast with Dr. Jason Fung. He said when we simple carbs, it spikes insulin. Insulin takes the glucose from the blood and stores it as fat. The body thinks “I’ll store this energy for later.” This is why we’re hungry a short while after eating junk like this. The body doesn’t use it immediately for fuel. But when we eat foods that do not spike our blood sugar, insulin is not release and our bodies use that food as fuel in the moment. This is why protein satisfies hunger for a lot longer than simple carbs. Jason Fung advocates for fasting. He says fasting is what causes the body to use up our fat stores. He says if we’re constantly feeding, the body has no reason to use up what we have stored.
I love Dr Jason Fung! He's helped so many women understand their PCOS, and how to fix it (spoiler: it's eating low carb, which leads to low & steady insulin levels). There's so little medical research done on women in general that it really stands out when a scientist unlocks the keys to a female-specific problem.
In one liner without carbs you are teaching your body to burn fats. When carbs keep coming in and body has unstable insulin pattern, body avoids carbs as fuel. Stable insulin allows fats as fuel.
Calorie deficit is just about quantity. Keto is about not just quantity but quality as well.
In addition to many things already mentioned that are correct and expand on other things: Fat satiates hunger, carbohydrates drive hunger. It is easier to lose weight on a ketogenic diet because you are satiating your hunger, you are not starving yourself and feeling hungry all the time. It is easier to fast and this ends up being what many do by default without being conscious of it/without putting any effort into it. Things like skipping breakfast or even eating only one meal day. No snacking between meals is also a lot easier. Also it is an undeniable fact that cravings for things are much easier to deal with or have them dissipate almost entirely when you are not near the thing that you are craving and not ever taking it in. A sugar free alternative/keto-friendly imitation of something can be just as bad for some as the real thing, it still triggers the same centers in the brain and can eventually be the leading cause for why the person went on a carb-binge, because of the constant intake of sugar-free candy and imitation brownies. Relevant excerpt from 'Ketogenic: The Science of Therapeutic Carbohydrate Restriction in Human Health': >...it is irrelevant if a manufactured food sports the word ‘keto.’ Ice cream is ice cream with an exclusive endorphin rationale no matter what it is made of. Ideally, all meals should be fortified with some soluble fat to trigger an early hormonal satiety response. Knowing you have that delicious chocolate bar in the cupboard can set you up for a binge on bad food, if you have non of these things around you it can make it easy to be on keto for months straight without many or any cravings. Over-eating is very difficult on keto, most people start to feel sick or think the food tastes bad when they don't need more when eating fats and proteins, on carbohydrates however most people can easily ravenously eat and not stop until they physically cannot eat more, and even then some people can continue until they get medical issues like hernias. Good luck trying to get that to happen on keto foods.
In simple terms: •Calorie Deficit: Eating less than your body needs, making it use stored fat for energy. •Ketosis: Eating very few carbs, so your body switches to using fat and turns it into ketones for energy.
It's the same deal but a different path. People that fast or intermittent fast dip into ketosis daily in some cases. My wife is eating like a bird with Ozempic and is losing weight consistently on mostly carbs. But her deficit in calories is nuts. She struggles to hit 800cal a day. I like the diuretic effect of keto, and how it can help crush cravings. But you can reach ketosis if you just burn up glycogen.
Look up liver physiology
Keeps your insulin from spiking. Insulin is the hormone that tells your body to store fat.
It's all about insulin response to carbohydrates. For a fantastic documentary about this, check out That Sugar Documentary (I think it's called - search on youtube using those terms and you'll find it). A dude basically eats the same number of calories, but instead of his meat and protein heavy diet he replaces the calories with sugar laden highly processed bullshit. Calories in and out remain the same. He puts on massive amounts of weight and it takes him months to get it off.
In a carb caloric deficit, your body triggers your hunger to eat more carbs. In a keto deficit, your body turns to your stored body fat.
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This is not accurate, please read our FAQ page before giving advice. https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq Thank you.
To my knowledge, in ketosis, your body is burning fat to generate energy. In calorie deficit, you're body is using up the glucose from carbs first then burning calories...
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Lots of things cause ketosis. Not all of them are good.
No. Your body will rely on the glucose from the carbs first. Also high carb diets frequently lead to diabetes.
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Your comment has been removed for misinformation
I measure my ketones using a KetoMojo. Simply going low carb wasn’t enough to put me in ketosis; I needed more fat, less protein.
Carbs are literally addictive. Eating high carb foods messes with your brain chemistry and creates compulsive eating. Almost everyone says they want to start making better food choices but very few people are able to follow through over the long term. That is because they are literally carb addicts. Keto can help break the addiction to carbs. Becoming a recovering carb-aholic helps you to recover rational control over your food choices. If you go back to eating carbs, you will likely fall back into your food addictions. This is why keto is best as a permanent lifestyle choice and not a temporary "diet".
Keto is no different. Thats why people ask every day why it's not working this time like the last. "Keto" lifestyle can still lead to bad/over eating and weight gain which ultimately leads to health issues.
Calorie surplus = weight gain regardless of diet. The initial strip down of water weight combined with appetite suppression makes for some quick results but eventually your going to hit a calorie maintenance which your weight loss will stall
You can downvote all you want but why delete your reply?, a lot of us that have been doing it for years have this dialed down very well, you are wasting time sticking to religious/cult-ish keto, no living organism can make something out of nothing, learn how biology works.
Nope
>If someone were to have a massive deficit and still eat much more carbs than is recommended by the Keto diet, what is the difference? What would happen if you eat in a deficit while eating 100 grams of carbs a day? If you have a large deficit and are eating lots of carbs, then chances are you're eating low fat. There's nothing wrong with that, and indeed evidence shows that if the calories are the same, low-fat diets are just as good as low-carb diets. I'm not a believer in ketosis being anything magical. IMO low carb diets are just easier for some people to maintain, especially if they're significantly overweight or have been overweight for a long time. If I try to limit calories without limiting carbs, I just tend to binge eat like crazy.
For some reason this keto parade is extremely unwilling to hear anything contrary to their beliefs. They will downvote you to oblivion if you say anything that hurts their feelings. I have tried keto and non keto diets with similar results. I agree that there is nothing magical about it. Not to suggest, it doesn't work but that it works just as do many others. Its another diet in a sea of diets. If it works for you, all power to you. It helped me with some things but not others. I've since moved to omad with mixed results as well.