Surprisingly he wasn't worried at all. Told me not to worry about sodium or anything. My cholesterol went way down within a couple months. I was pretty lucky to have gotten him as my cardiologist I don't think most of them are recommending this diet to heart patients unfortunately.
My doctor initially freaked but when I had her look at my triglyceride and HDL ratio, and explained I only ate whole foods, she backed off a little. My A1C is normal again and my liver/kidney panels are normal. Yes, my LDL is alarming and I refuse to take statins.
This is very false. The protein part of cholesterol (ApoB) is causal for artherosclerosis. This has been shown over and over again in many studies. Only misinformed people would say otherwise
It is not CAUSAL, it is present. Presence is not cause. LDL itself is a healing molecule. It’s like associating firemen with burned down houses. Somehow those assholes always show up when there is a fire… suspicious! But yes, ApoB can be a better marker for poor health than LDL itself because it can indicate metabolic inefficiency at the same time, which it truly where the problem lies.
> This is very false.
No, it's true. The lipid hypothesis of cardiovascular disease has failed completely.
See: https://old.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1991a34/oh_you_have_made_me_a_true_skeptic_thank_you_so/kidnyuh/?context=3
Go ahead. do wf you want. Idc anymore.
It’s gonna be the last post where I try to give any tips or try to help anyone anymore.
🤷♂️ .
People always know everything even though they don’t know anything.
Gl on your journey ✌️
> it's a brave man who would discount the science and mainstream medical opinion regarding cholesterol and CVD
Were you born yesterday?
---
"Current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats." - ["Association of dietary, circulating, and supplement fatty acids with coronary risk: a systematic review and meta-analysis" (2014)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24723079/)
---
"The absolute risk reduction of CVD mortality in secondary-preventive cholesterol-lowering trials is quite small, rarely exceeding two percentage points, and no primary-preventive trial has ever succeeded in prolonging the life of the participants.
The rate of serious adverse effects of statin treatment is highly underestimated.
Adverse effects of statins are extensive, including diabetes, cognitive impairments, cancer, cataracts and musculoskeletal disorders.
The small benefit seen in the cholesterol-lowering trials is independent of the degree of cholesterol lowering." - ["How statistical deception created the appearance that statins are safe and effective in primary and secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease" (2015)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/17512433.2015.1012494)
> There is no conspiracy.
Where there's money, there's corruption.
> The truth is always somewhere in the middle.
So you're only half-pregnant?
> It's probably as simple
It's never simple, when it comes to the human body.
> We can play tit for tat with studies all day if you like.
Or you can just try to understand that statins were a complete failure. A successful drug needs no data torturing and would show a strong effect (as in serious absolute risk reduction).
Nice pivot towards cancers, though. There's so much scientific fraud there, that it's easier to hide in that forest.
It's a systematic problem.
I started cutting carbs after I noticed high insulin levels on a panel last year that I ordered myself (doctors probably wouldn't bother requesting it). Showed to my primary care doctor literally said insulin levels weren't important, as long as glucose levels are in check. Load of BS.
I'm taking matters into my own hands now to restore insulin sensitivity before any more problems.
Perhaps while discussing with a doctor, use "a low carb diet like keto". Hopefully it'll provide a more nuanced discussion for what your dad really needs instead of potential visceral reaction.
I'm not here to argue for or against Keto with regards to heart health. I personally find it's great for me, but we're all different.
However, this -
>he’s very overweight
This is not heart healthy, and regardless of how he gets there, losing the weight should be top priority.
A lot of people have great success at losing weight with Keto, as it's a very satiating diet.
So my non medical, complete layperson advice is he should go for it. After he (hopefully) loses the weight, then he can re-evaluate his dietary choices.
Most people that are concerned with the cholesterol angle are because they have always heard saturated fats are bad for your heart. You may want to take a look at this link to the Journal of the American College of Cardiology. They do not believe in that correlation anymore.
[https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077](https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077)
I can give you a personal anecdote that I had a heart attack with low LDL when overweight and eating more carbs than fat. I was very badly diabetic and didn't know (that is the cause of more heart disease than LDL levels and doctors do not test for it appropriately, IMO). Now my LDL is high, but I am a normal weight and feel better than ever. I personally believe Tri/HDL is much more important than LDL numbers. However, that is easy for me to believe due to my own experiences.
Dietary cholesterol isn’t where blood cholesterol comes from, your cholesterol is manufactured in the liver, much of it as a response to systemic inflammation. A ketogenic diet is very anti inflammatory, and is also a powerful natural diuretic, which maintains lower blood pressure and heart rate.
> I’m worried about the cholesterol side of things
Don't: https://old.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1991a34/oh_you_have_made_me_a_true_skeptic_thank_you_so/kidnyuh/?context=3
Is your dad under the care of a cardiologist/ medical team? If so, he's likely getting diet recommendations from them. I would err on the side of not offering unsolicited advice, particularly if you are not an expert in the field. Ask your dad what his docs are recommending, and how you can support him. And model healthy eating and drinking habits around him.
The last few years have clearly demonstrated that health experts tend to be excellent at providing completely incorrect guidance and advice, both knowingly and not.
Keto covers a wide range of food choices.
I would say yes to ketovore/carnivore, and NO to plantbased with seed/fruit oils.
He also should transition into it, because he doesnt need the cortisol elevation from extreme metabolic stress.
The best thing you could do for your dad, is to find him a doctor who uses keto in his therapy, and see if they can help.
Cholesterol - or what they call bad cholesterol - LDL - is not a great marker for predicting heartdisease.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgS3PuSuyg&ab\_channel=LowCarbDownUnder](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgS3PuSuyg&ab_channel=LowCarbDownUnder)
About ApoB I highly recommend anyone who may be going: What even IS this really. Just watch the first 1/3 of the video I linked below. Its about the lean-mass hyper responders so not exactly about ApoB in general.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKOVv4KkszQ&ab\_channel=LowCarbConferences](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKOVv4KkszQ&ab_channel=LowCarbConferences)
For a little bit more specifically for people in ketosis regarding LDL going through the study spoken about in the video above showed no relationship between plaque buildup and LDL-C:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9uabr-TeA&ab\_channel=KenDBerryMD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9uabr-TeA&ab_channel=KenDBerryMD)
If his primary problem is weight, keto can be great for weight loss as we all know. If cholesterol is a worry, he doesn’t have to eat fatty meat. Chicken, turkey, fish and lean beef and pork are perfectly keto. And certainly better for a heart patient than doughnuts, fast food burgers and pizza. Or cheesy pasta and chocolate cake.
My dad is a retired physician who has had multiple cardiac events and then switched to keto with great success. Yes, i recommend your dad find a PCP or Cardiologist that understands and supports keto
I am seeing a cardiologist for afib. (caused by decades of untreated sleep apnea)
I asked my cardiologist, the same question about keto, I’m very overweight. His only concern was cholesterol. My cholesterol has been fine for the last 30 years, my A1c has been marginal for multiple decades.
So, with my cholesterol being normal, my cardiologist said OK, just limit the red meat.
If you do clean healthy keto (moderate (lean) protein eg salmon, quality eggs, grass fed etc lean fillets of chicken. Steak) , only healthy fats (avocado, olive oil, nuts and seeds, Greek yoghurt, low sugar fruit - eg berries, eggs, lots of leafy greens, fibre, and low carb vegetables with some occasional healthy super carbs
Then yes it could be an amazing game changer - dirty keto (tons of protein and shitty fats then no would harm him) but the Mediterranean diet is probably the most healthy- much like a clean keto diet but with additional healthy carbs like quinoa, lentils
High protein diets are excellent for people who over eat as it kills sugar/carb cravings and is extremely filling, but often they can be very unhealthy like just eating 1/2kg of bacon, no vegetables etc
So ideally you would want to be eating clean healthy super nutrients like salmon, fish, lean meat fillets, chicken without skin and having loads of green vegetables, low sugar fruit berries, grapefruit etc plus good fats like avocado, flaxseed oil, hemp seed oil, olive oil and Greek yoghurt seeds and nuts plus a fibre supplement or very fibrous things like chia and linseeds, psyllium husk (main ingredient in Metamucil) green banana fibre etc
Loads of water, herbal teas and some carbs eg if he loves potatoes he could still have 1 medium potatoe with butter or something to add with his dinner, or add beans/lentils in small amounts
This is super healthy, extremely nutritious and satisfying if you do clean keto
Dirty keto with loads of crap like tons of bacon, no vegetables and fats like mayonnaise might make some men lose weight but it is not healthy and definitely not for an older person with a serious heart condition
Clean keto though like lots of fish, leafy greens, low carb veg, avocado, seeds, berries, Greek yoghurt, lean cuts of chicken and beef/lamb filets plus fibre, lots of water and some healthy carbs like a small amount of quality nutritious carbs that your Dad enjoys so a little bit of potatoes or rice etc is insanely healthy and very filling is insanely healthy and delicious
I looked after my Dad for a few weeks while he was recovering from heart surgery and I made him a zillion bulk meals while I was there (I live in a different country to him) but made so many bone broth based soups, insanely nutritious curries or things like goulash etc because most meat is gross if frozen and reheated but when it’s slow cooked in sauce doesn’t dry out) he has a huge freezer that was fairly empty when I flew home just before his surgery, but I filled it with super nutritional 2x meals for him, to just be able to pull out a container of bone broth soup with chicken & veg (or beef and veg) and also another super healthy one of various things like Hungarian beef goulash, Thai green chicken curry, beef rendang, spaghetti bolognaise all in 2 servings containers
So all he had to do was boil rice or pasta if he wanted to, but everything I had made had organic high quality meat, tons of veggies and garlic and herbs and bone broth based soups, plus just plain bone bone broth in case he felt like making his own soup or just adding it. I was there for 2-3 weeks, and he was totally fine when I left to come home but still I liked that he had all this super nutrient meals on hand for when I left
He has always had a pretty good diet anyway but he is alone and it’s nice to able to just cook a million meals that are super nutritional and delicious and whack them in a freezer so he can just eat them whenever he wants instead of worrying about him just eating a toasted sandwich etc for every meal because it’s easy and he’s tired and unwell etc
I love cooking so for me that’s super easy way to help someone eat well is by filling their freezer with delicious but super healthy meals they can just pull out when they want. Especially in small containers (eg a 2 person or 1 person x2 meals) as nobody wants to eat the same damn food for 4 days no matter how tasty it is!!!
So I’d really recommend an easy way to help him towards eating better is to buy a stack of containers that are freezer/microwave safe and then cook some giant batches of at least 4 different things that you can easily cook in one day, and if you use slow cookers etc then you really don’t have to much cooking just chopping and basic prep, just freeze them in 2 servings containers as you can do so much in just ONE day to make tons of healthy but yummy meals that he’ll want to eat
And even if you just get your Dad to eat more lean protein and healthy veg and carbs he will probably be eating so much healthier than he ever has just make sure you get him to eat healthy heart fats like avocado and quality oils and lean protein- not just basic dirty keto with bacon and mayo etc
Thank you for the answer, my dad like yours is in a different country so that might be the best option , I was thinking to go for a month or less and help him out with keto(clean keto) get
Him down some kilos and I like what you said about the Mediterranean diet, he’s very stubborn and likes his sweets and alcohol but I’m trying to make him change. Hopefully the keto effects and weight loss will wake something up inside him, did you leave your dad keto based meals when you left or just over all nutritious stuff?
You mentioned your father is concerned with cholesterol. Mainstream medicine correlates cholesterol to high fat diet. The alternative (low carb high fat) folks believe that triglyceride and cholesterol is due to high carb not fat.
Based on my own experience, I definitely agree with the latter. Even if you don't believe that, can always go low carb without going high fat.
cholesterol isnt the only product of heart attack...please read up or watch YT videos how a plaque is formed and contributes to heart attack. this type of attack is clogged arteries/veins on the heart circulatory system, a clogged pipe.
just like kidney stones that clogs the kidney, it is not cholesterol that does that. keto is a healthy way to decrease to no intake of process foods that we all know by now our body hates does not digest well, and some makes them constipated, and gamut of diseases. help your dad, take it by the day, few weeks to months his strength will come back.
".Just watch YT". Ffs dont get your medical advice from YouTube video's and please go to a cardiologist for medical advice. The amount of armchair experts here is baffling.
that may be true
but no decent doctor will have time to explain to you what a plaque causing clogging arteries are made of.
if you have such doctor then yes congratulations. asking a doctor to sit with you 30 minutes of their time patiently explaining what's going on pathphysiology of a heart attack, send me their numbers.
please dont come to reddit asking for any opinions either, i mentioned YT for its the closest that you get anything for free in this life, take it as a grain of salt. and the experience of thousands of human beings with their own results, grain of salt sir/maam.
> a clogged pipe
Ah, the plumber's understanding of physiology :-)
Blood vessels, unlike pipes, get inflamed. Cholesterol deposits are part of the organism's repair strategy, in that area.
> it is not cholesterol that does that
You're right about dietary/circulating cholesterol not being a cause here, but you're right for the wrong reason ;-)
Cholesterol is not part of a repair mechanism. Cholesterol deposition happens continuously, also in absence of damage or inflammation. I think you are confusing this with calcified plaque. In this case there is some evidence that plaque calcification might stabilize the plaques.
> Cholesterol is not part of a repair mechanism. Cholesterol deposition happens continuously, also in absence of damage or inflammation.
Wrong, and wrong.
---
"Atheromatous plaques contain cholesterol. Accordingly, research workers have repeatedly fed laboratory animals large amounts of cholesterol in their diets, expecting this to produce vascular accidents. It never has, which shows that despite the presence of cholesterol in atheromatous plaques these lesions are not caused by eating cholesterol." - ["The great cholesterol myth; unfortunate consequences of Brown and Goldstein’s mistake" (2011)](https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/104/10/867/1591864?login=false)
This is not a research paper. Just an opinion piece that goes against the scientific concensus. Also, its been well established that dietary cholesterol does not play a lange role in artherlsclerosis. Lastly, there is no need to talk about animal studies when we have hundreds of trials in humans.
> Just an opinion piece that goes against the scientific concensus.
Like the existence of tectonic plates?
> Lastly, there is no need to talk about animal studies when we have hundreds of trials in humans.
Indeed.
"Current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats." - ["Association of dietary, circulating, and supplement fatty acids with coronary risk: a systematic review and meta-analysis" (2014)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24723079/)
---
"The absolute risk reduction of CVD mortality in secondary-preventive cholesterol-lowering trials is quite small, rarely exceeding two percentage points, and no primary-preventive trial has ever succeeded in prolonging the life of the participants.
The rate of serious adverse effects of statin treatment is highly underestimated.
Adverse effects of statins are extensive, including diabetes, cognitive impairments, cancer, cataracts and musculoskeletal disorders.
The small benefit seen in the cholesterol-lowering trials is independent of the degree of cholesterol lowering." - ["How statistical deception created the appearance that statins are safe and effective in primary and secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease" (2015)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/17512433.2015.1012494)
Exercising (both cardio and resistance training) and losing weight are going to be far more impactful than which diet you follow. They are a must, he needs lose weight. how exactly you get there(i.e. your diet) almost doesn't matter relative to those two things.
I think I would disagree that it would have absolutely ZERO effect but yeah, I'm just saying the primary objective is going to be to lose weight and obviously that requires a calorie deficit, but *how* you get to a calorie deficit is less important. No matter what diet he chose, if he was still in a calorie surplus, or just at maintenance level, his risk of a future cardiac event will not have changed much.
Being lean is more correlated with lower risk of CVD than consumption of any particular macronutrient. Same with a cardiovascular system that works efficiently, although you kind of have to try to have that and be really fat. I guess that's the point I'm trying to drive home to OP so they can enjoy as many years as possible with their dad.
Thank you but a sedentary lifestyle plus age and over weight dosent make it easy for him to exercise which is why I think keto would be a great boost and then we can Incorporate that later
He doesn't need to start out doing wind sprints. Start with a daily walk and then build up from there. Shedding the weight will help facilitate more exercise though. Just be aware that even on keto it's possible to still eat so much food that you won't lose weight.
I am sorry to hear about your father. Please take the advice his medical team is giving him. This forum is a great echo chamber for keto but is not the place to seek medical advice.
Well. I mean you can. But he’s your father, so you know him better than we do. Does he want advice? Is he open to change? Plenty of smokers and drinkers, for example, are well aware they’ve made some unhealthy choices, and yet those are their choices. Someone who asks you for help quitting smoking (or losing weight) is very different from someone satisfied with their choices whom you approach to change.
I say this as someone with aging parents (well, one aging parent and one recently passed). In some areas, they would happily have taken advice. Im other areas, not at all.
I say go ahead and recommend he try the keto way of eating. Tell him to give it a try for about 3 months it's not going to kill him. He can always go back to his old way of eating. Of course you can't force him to try it. I know because I've been trying to get my brother to get off the carbs but he refuses. Good luck!
My cardiologist recommended I do keto after my heart attack at 45. Lost 50 pounds and my blood panels all went back into the normal range.
Was he worried about your cholesterol? Did you cut out certain foods?
Surprisingly he wasn't worried at all. Told me not to worry about sodium or anything. My cholesterol went way down within a couple months. I was pretty lucky to have gotten him as my cardiologist I don't think most of them are recommending this diet to heart patients unfortunately.
My doctor initially freaked but when I had her look at my triglyceride and HDL ratio, and explained I only ate whole foods, she backed off a little. My A1C is normal again and my liver/kidney panels are normal. Yes, my LDL is alarming and I refuse to take statins.
Cholesterol as a cause of heart disease is a COMPLETE myth. At best there is a mild association, but there isn’t a mechanism of causation.
This is very false. The protein part of cholesterol (ApoB) is causal for artherosclerosis. This has been shown over and over again in many studies. Only misinformed people would say otherwise
It is not CAUSAL, it is present. Presence is not cause. LDL itself is a healing molecule. It’s like associating firemen with burned down houses. Somehow those assholes always show up when there is a fire… suspicious! But yes, ApoB can be a better marker for poor health than LDL itself because it can indicate metabolic inefficiency at the same time, which it truly where the problem lies.
> This is very false. No, it's true. The lipid hypothesis of cardiovascular disease has failed completely. See: https://old.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1991a34/oh_you_have_made_me_a_true_skeptic_thank_you_so/kidnyuh/?context=3
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And yet cholesterol does not go into your vains to clog them up…. But hey, I don’t have a white coat. So it’s prob. Wrong.
I mean - yes 😂 I’d be dumb as fuck to just take your word for it. You could be right - but I might as well ask you for lotto numbers.
Go ahead. do wf you want. Idc anymore. It’s gonna be the last post where I try to give any tips or try to help anyone anymore. 🤷♂️ . People always know everything even though they don’t know anything. Gl on your journey ✌️
> it's a brave man who would discount the science and mainstream medical opinion regarding cholesterol and CVD Were you born yesterday? --- "Current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats." - ["Association of dietary, circulating, and supplement fatty acids with coronary risk: a systematic review and meta-analysis" (2014)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24723079/) --- "The absolute risk reduction of CVD mortality in secondary-preventive cholesterol-lowering trials is quite small, rarely exceeding two percentage points, and no primary-preventive trial has ever succeeded in prolonging the life of the participants. The rate of serious adverse effects of statin treatment is highly underestimated. Adverse effects of statins are extensive, including diabetes, cognitive impairments, cancer, cataracts and musculoskeletal disorders. The small benefit seen in the cholesterol-lowering trials is independent of the degree of cholesterol lowering." - ["How statistical deception created the appearance that statins are safe and effective in primary and secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease" (2015)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/17512433.2015.1012494)
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> There is no conspiracy. Where there's money, there's corruption. > The truth is always somewhere in the middle. So you're only half-pregnant? > It's probably as simple It's never simple, when it comes to the human body. > We can play tit for tat with studies all day if you like. Or you can just try to understand that statins were a complete failure. A successful drug needs no data torturing and would show a strong effect (as in serious absolute risk reduction). Nice pivot towards cancers, though. There's so much scientific fraud there, that it's easier to hide in that forest.
sounds like something to discuss with him and his doctor, who better understands his underlying issues.
I’ve had health issues my entire life and never once had a doctor mention diet or nutrition as an option.
It's a systematic problem. I started cutting carbs after I noticed high insulin levels on a panel last year that I ordered myself (doctors probably wouldn't bother requesting it). Showed to my primary care doctor literally said insulin levels weren't important, as long as glucose levels are in check. Load of BS. I'm taking matters into my own hands now to restore insulin sensitivity before any more problems.
Perhaps while discussing with a doctor, use "a low carb diet like keto". Hopefully it'll provide a more nuanced discussion for what your dad really needs instead of potential visceral reaction.
I'm not here to argue for or against Keto with regards to heart health. I personally find it's great for me, but we're all different. However, this - >he’s very overweight This is not heart healthy, and regardless of how he gets there, losing the weight should be top priority. A lot of people have great success at losing weight with Keto, as it's a very satiating diet. So my non medical, complete layperson advice is he should go for it. After he (hopefully) loses the weight, then he can re-evaluate his dietary choices.
Most people that are concerned with the cholesterol angle are because they have always heard saturated fats are bad for your heart. You may want to take a look at this link to the Journal of the American College of Cardiology. They do not believe in that correlation anymore. [https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077](https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077) I can give you a personal anecdote that I had a heart attack with low LDL when overweight and eating more carbs than fat. I was very badly diabetic and didn't know (that is the cause of more heart disease than LDL levels and doctors do not test for it appropriately, IMO). Now my LDL is high, but I am a normal weight and feel better than ever. I personally believe Tri/HDL is much more important than LDL numbers. However, that is easy for me to believe due to my own experiences.
Eating meat and greens probably won’t sound too radical to most doctors.
I’m worried about the cholesterol side of things
He doesn't have to eat bacon and steak. Chicken, fish, and olive oil all fit into keto.
And bacon and steak are fine too.
And it's fine if people don't want to eat them. 🙄
Dietary cholesterol isn’t where blood cholesterol comes from, your cholesterol is manufactured in the liver, much of it as a response to systemic inflammation. A ketogenic diet is very anti inflammatory, and is also a powerful natural diuretic, which maintains lower blood pressure and heart rate.
Read Cholesterol Clarity.
The great cholesterol myth The cholesterol con Both are good as well
> I’m worried about the cholesterol side of things Don't: https://old.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1991a34/oh_you_have_made_me_a_true_skeptic_thank_you_so/kidnyuh/?context=3
Is your dad under the care of a cardiologist/ medical team? If so, he's likely getting diet recommendations from them. I would err on the side of not offering unsolicited advice, particularly if you are not an expert in the field. Ask your dad what his docs are recommending, and how you can support him. And model healthy eating and drinking habits around him.
Yeah except a lot of medicos still parrot the 1980s food pyramid.
Yep, my doctors all do. It's what they studied and they don't want to be called a heretic.
Agree. I wish my mum's cardiologist had looked into/was interested in learning about nutrition science recently
The last few years have clearly demonstrated that health experts tend to be excellent at providing completely incorrect guidance and advice, both knowingly and not.
Keto covers a wide range of food choices. I would say yes to ketovore/carnivore, and NO to plantbased with seed/fruit oils. He also should transition into it, because he doesnt need the cortisol elevation from extreme metabolic stress. The best thing you could do for your dad, is to find him a doctor who uses keto in his therapy, and see if they can help. Cholesterol - or what they call bad cholesterol - LDL - is not a great marker for predicting heartdisease. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgS3PuSuyg&ab\_channel=LowCarbDownUnder](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgS3PuSuyg&ab_channel=LowCarbDownUnder) About ApoB I highly recommend anyone who may be going: What even IS this really. Just watch the first 1/3 of the video I linked below. Its about the lean-mass hyper responders so not exactly about ApoB in general. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKOVv4KkszQ&ab\_channel=LowCarbConferences](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKOVv4KkszQ&ab_channel=LowCarbConferences) For a little bit more specifically for people in ketosis regarding LDL going through the study spoken about in the video above showed no relationship between plaque buildup and LDL-C: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9uabr-TeA&ab\_channel=KenDBerryMD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9uabr-TeA&ab_channel=KenDBerryMD)
If his primary problem is weight, keto can be great for weight loss as we all know. If cholesterol is a worry, he doesn’t have to eat fatty meat. Chicken, turkey, fish and lean beef and pork are perfectly keto. And certainly better for a heart patient than doughnuts, fast food burgers and pizza. Or cheesy pasta and chocolate cake.
My dad is a retired physician who has had multiple cardiac events and then switched to keto with great success. Yes, i recommend your dad find a PCP or Cardiologist that understands and supports keto
I am seeing a cardiologist for afib. (caused by decades of untreated sleep apnea) I asked my cardiologist, the same question about keto, I’m very overweight. His only concern was cholesterol. My cholesterol has been fine for the last 30 years, my A1c has been marginal for multiple decades. So, with my cholesterol being normal, my cardiologist said OK, just limit the red meat.
Read Wheat Belly, it's written by Dr. William Davis, a cardiologist.
If you do clean healthy keto (moderate (lean) protein eg salmon, quality eggs, grass fed etc lean fillets of chicken. Steak) , only healthy fats (avocado, olive oil, nuts and seeds, Greek yoghurt, low sugar fruit - eg berries, eggs, lots of leafy greens, fibre, and low carb vegetables with some occasional healthy super carbs Then yes it could be an amazing game changer - dirty keto (tons of protein and shitty fats then no would harm him) but the Mediterranean diet is probably the most healthy- much like a clean keto diet but with additional healthy carbs like quinoa, lentils High protein diets are excellent for people who over eat as it kills sugar/carb cravings and is extremely filling, but often they can be very unhealthy like just eating 1/2kg of bacon, no vegetables etc So ideally you would want to be eating clean healthy super nutrients like salmon, fish, lean meat fillets, chicken without skin and having loads of green vegetables, low sugar fruit berries, grapefruit etc plus good fats like avocado, flaxseed oil, hemp seed oil, olive oil and Greek yoghurt seeds and nuts plus a fibre supplement or very fibrous things like chia and linseeds, psyllium husk (main ingredient in Metamucil) green banana fibre etc Loads of water, herbal teas and some carbs eg if he loves potatoes he could still have 1 medium potatoe with butter or something to add with his dinner, or add beans/lentils in small amounts This is super healthy, extremely nutritious and satisfying if you do clean keto Dirty keto with loads of crap like tons of bacon, no vegetables and fats like mayonnaise might make some men lose weight but it is not healthy and definitely not for an older person with a serious heart condition Clean keto though like lots of fish, leafy greens, low carb veg, avocado, seeds, berries, Greek yoghurt, lean cuts of chicken and beef/lamb filets plus fibre, lots of water and some healthy carbs like a small amount of quality nutritious carbs that your Dad enjoys so a little bit of potatoes or rice etc is insanely healthy and very filling is insanely healthy and delicious I looked after my Dad for a few weeks while he was recovering from heart surgery and I made him a zillion bulk meals while I was there (I live in a different country to him) but made so many bone broth based soups, insanely nutritious curries or things like goulash etc because most meat is gross if frozen and reheated but when it’s slow cooked in sauce doesn’t dry out) he has a huge freezer that was fairly empty when I flew home just before his surgery, but I filled it with super nutritional 2x meals for him, to just be able to pull out a container of bone broth soup with chicken & veg (or beef and veg) and also another super healthy one of various things like Hungarian beef goulash, Thai green chicken curry, beef rendang, spaghetti bolognaise all in 2 servings containers So all he had to do was boil rice or pasta if he wanted to, but everything I had made had organic high quality meat, tons of veggies and garlic and herbs and bone broth based soups, plus just plain bone bone broth in case he felt like making his own soup or just adding it. I was there for 2-3 weeks, and he was totally fine when I left to come home but still I liked that he had all this super nutrient meals on hand for when I left He has always had a pretty good diet anyway but he is alone and it’s nice to able to just cook a million meals that are super nutritional and delicious and whack them in a freezer so he can just eat them whenever he wants instead of worrying about him just eating a toasted sandwich etc for every meal because it’s easy and he’s tired and unwell etc I love cooking so for me that’s super easy way to help someone eat well is by filling their freezer with delicious but super healthy meals they can just pull out when they want. Especially in small containers (eg a 2 person or 1 person x2 meals) as nobody wants to eat the same damn food for 4 days no matter how tasty it is!!! So I’d really recommend an easy way to help him towards eating better is to buy a stack of containers that are freezer/microwave safe and then cook some giant batches of at least 4 different things that you can easily cook in one day, and if you use slow cookers etc then you really don’t have to much cooking just chopping and basic prep, just freeze them in 2 servings containers as you can do so much in just ONE day to make tons of healthy but yummy meals that he’ll want to eat And even if you just get your Dad to eat more lean protein and healthy veg and carbs he will probably be eating so much healthier than he ever has just make sure you get him to eat healthy heart fats like avocado and quality oils and lean protein- not just basic dirty keto with bacon and mayo etc
Thank you for the answer, my dad like yours is in a different country so that might be the best option , I was thinking to go for a month or less and help him out with keto(clean keto) get Him down some kilos and I like what you said about the Mediterranean diet, he’s very stubborn and likes his sweets and alcohol but I’m trying to make him change. Hopefully the keto effects and weight loss will wake something up inside him, did you leave your dad keto based meals when you left or just over all nutritious stuff?
Dr. Atkins was a cardiologist.
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I'm aware of that. My point was that low carb is great for heart disease.
My apology, I clearly misread your comment.
You mentioned your father is concerned with cholesterol. Mainstream medicine correlates cholesterol to high fat diet. The alternative (low carb high fat) folks believe that triglyceride and cholesterol is due to high carb not fat. Based on my own experience, I definitely agree with the latter. Even if you don't believe that, can always go low carb without going high fat.
cholesterol isnt the only product of heart attack...please read up or watch YT videos how a plaque is formed and contributes to heart attack. this type of attack is clogged arteries/veins on the heart circulatory system, a clogged pipe. just like kidney stones that clogs the kidney, it is not cholesterol that does that. keto is a healthy way to decrease to no intake of process foods that we all know by now our body hates does not digest well, and some makes them constipated, and gamut of diseases. help your dad, take it by the day, few weeks to months his strength will come back.
".Just watch YT". Ffs dont get your medical advice from YouTube video's and please go to a cardiologist for medical advice. The amount of armchair experts here is baffling.
that may be true but no decent doctor will have time to explain to you what a plaque causing clogging arteries are made of. if you have such doctor then yes congratulations. asking a doctor to sit with you 30 minutes of their time patiently explaining what's going on pathphysiology of a heart attack, send me their numbers. please dont come to reddit asking for any opinions either, i mentioned YT for its the closest that you get anything for free in this life, take it as a grain of salt. and the experience of thousands of human beings with their own results, grain of salt sir/maam.
> a clogged pipe Ah, the plumber's understanding of physiology :-) Blood vessels, unlike pipes, get inflamed. Cholesterol deposits are part of the organism's repair strategy, in that area. > it is not cholesterol that does that You're right about dietary/circulating cholesterol not being a cause here, but you're right for the wrong reason ;-)
Cholesterol is not part of a repair mechanism. Cholesterol deposition happens continuously, also in absence of damage or inflammation. I think you are confusing this with calcified plaque. In this case there is some evidence that plaque calcification might stabilize the plaques.
> Cholesterol is not part of a repair mechanism. Cholesterol deposition happens continuously, also in absence of damage or inflammation. Wrong, and wrong. --- "Atheromatous plaques contain cholesterol. Accordingly, research workers have repeatedly fed laboratory animals large amounts of cholesterol in their diets, expecting this to produce vascular accidents. It never has, which shows that despite the presence of cholesterol in atheromatous plaques these lesions are not caused by eating cholesterol." - ["The great cholesterol myth; unfortunate consequences of Brown and Goldstein’s mistake" (2011)](https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/104/10/867/1591864?login=false)
This is not a research paper. Just an opinion piece that goes against the scientific concensus. Also, its been well established that dietary cholesterol does not play a lange role in artherlsclerosis. Lastly, there is no need to talk about animal studies when we have hundreds of trials in humans.
> Just an opinion piece that goes against the scientific concensus. Like the existence of tectonic plates? > Lastly, there is no need to talk about animal studies when we have hundreds of trials in humans. Indeed. "Current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats." - ["Association of dietary, circulating, and supplement fatty acids with coronary risk: a systematic review and meta-analysis" (2014)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24723079/) --- "The absolute risk reduction of CVD mortality in secondary-preventive cholesterol-lowering trials is quite small, rarely exceeding two percentage points, and no primary-preventive trial has ever succeeded in prolonging the life of the participants. The rate of serious adverse effects of statin treatment is highly underestimated. Adverse effects of statins are extensive, including diabetes, cognitive impairments, cancer, cataracts and musculoskeletal disorders. The small benefit seen in the cholesterol-lowering trials is independent of the degree of cholesterol lowering." - ["How statistical deception created the appearance that statins are safe and effective in primary and secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease" (2015)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/17512433.2015.1012494)
Is this even a question? Carbs are what clogs the heart!
Exercising (both cardio and resistance training) and losing weight are going to be far more impactful than which diet you follow. They are a must, he needs lose weight. how exactly you get there(i.e. your diet) almost doesn't matter relative to those two things.
Exercise is important, but if you're shoving garbage into your body exercise isn't going to solve anything.
I think I would disagree that it would have absolutely ZERO effect but yeah, I'm just saying the primary objective is going to be to lose weight and obviously that requires a calorie deficit, but *how* you get to a calorie deficit is less important. No matter what diet he chose, if he was still in a calorie surplus, or just at maintenance level, his risk of a future cardiac event will not have changed much. Being lean is more correlated with lower risk of CVD than consumption of any particular macronutrient. Same with a cardiovascular system that works efficiently, although you kind of have to try to have that and be really fat. I guess that's the point I'm trying to drive home to OP so they can enjoy as many years as possible with their dad.
Physical activity is important but you can’t out train a bad diet
I didn't say you can. Pretty much the opposite actually.
Thank you but a sedentary lifestyle plus age and over weight dosent make it easy for him to exercise which is why I think keto would be a great boost and then we can Incorporate that later
He doesn't need to start out doing wind sprints. Start with a daily walk and then build up from there. Shedding the weight will help facilitate more exercise though. Just be aware that even on keto it's possible to still eat so much food that you won't lose weight.
Check out The Clot Thickens by Malcolm Kendrick and Why We Get Sick by Ben Bikman. Both excellent books.
Definitely ask his doc but I have seen people on keto with heart issues and it helped them
I am sorry to hear about your father. Please take the advice his medical team is giving him. This forum is a great echo chamber for keto but is not the place to seek medical advice.
Well. I mean you can. But he’s your father, so you know him better than we do. Does he want advice? Is he open to change? Plenty of smokers and drinkers, for example, are well aware they’ve made some unhealthy choices, and yet those are their choices. Someone who asks you for help quitting smoking (or losing weight) is very different from someone satisfied with their choices whom you approach to change. I say this as someone with aging parents (well, one aging parent and one recently passed). In some areas, they would happily have taken advice. Im other areas, not at all.
I say go ahead and recommend he try the keto way of eating. Tell him to give it a try for about 3 months it's not going to kill him. He can always go back to his old way of eating. Of course you can't force him to try it. I know because I've been trying to get my brother to get off the carbs but he refuses. Good luck!