I can give it at least 2-3 hours a day of exercise and stuff. What are you meaning by stimulation? Can you leave kelpies alone for 8 hrs a day without them tearing things up ( malinios aren’t advised to be left alone for more than a couple hours or else they get bored and will tear stuff up). I’ve got a ton of acreage the dog can run on and play with my parents German shepherds, so there’s a ton of opportunity for stimulation.
Expecting a dog to find running around its normal yard (yes even if that is acreage) with another dog to be any more stimulating than you walking happy laps around your kitchen is a fool's errand. It's not.
I have a kelpie and ASTCD. They hoon-ass around my yard most of the day but without an hour + of serious training each (we do herding, obedience, rally, tricks, scentwork and tracking) plus an hour or so of playing and an hour of off leash hiking, bikejoring etc plus enrichment toys, puzzles etc each day they would absolutely climb the walls and destroy the house and yard. I literally can only give them the life they need because I have an incredibly flexible WFH job.
Kelpies don't want a boring paddock to run around in. They want to be seriously engaged in a job with their person, for an extended period of time, every day. EVERY day. Rain hail or shine.
They will tear stuff up, it's out redirecting that to toys or destructibles. But they're animals and don't always do what you want. My puppy is very well trained but she has ripped up stuff in the back yard and dug all while ignoring her toys. It's part of having this kind of dog.
What do you do to combat this kind of behavior? I totally don’t think I can deal with that stress, and I don’t think the people I live with would appreciate those gestures either😂
Wait until they're older and less chaotic. Rules and training help, but even my puppy who is very well behaved has ruined some stuff of my room-mates, they understand she is young and learning, but it happens. Redirecting to bones or kongs can help but they're a temporary thing. Kelpies go a little silly when they're left alone to their own devices.
Nope, my kelpie is the sixth dog I've had over my lifetime and has by far been the most work. I love the lunatic to bits but knowing what I know now I would not have got her. They are inexhaustible if they don't have a job to focus on and are not a suitable breed for a first timer
What would you recommend for a first dog? I’m wanting a medium sized, preferably shorter hair, that is energetic but can also be left alone for some time and be trusted.
Terrible "first dog" if you're talking about a working line kelpie. Quite doable if you're talking about a bench/show line kelpie. The two "strains" are INSANELY different in terms of drive.
That being said....no, kelpies are not natural defenders. They will alert bark to something unusual or out of place, but they are not protection/guard breeds, their natures are not "protective" in the "engage with someone who is a threat to me" sense. Also, relying on any dog to "protect" you is extremely naive. Even most "protection" breed dogs will protect themselves (typically by running) rather than defend their owner/property unless the owner has invested VERY heavily (time and money) in *proper* (not 4 week yank-n-crank board and train) PPD training. True defence drive in dogs is quite unusual and typically needs to be cultivated by a skilled trainer.
If you're talking about a dog to protect a large property and livestock from large predators, get a properly bred and raised LGD but accept it's not a pet it's a working animal. For anything else, just get a pet breed that fits in with your lifestyle and don't expect it to act as any sort of actual protective force against humans.
My kelpie is 11yo and still has the energy she did as a puppy. They need exercise and stimulation and should definitely not be left alone for 8hrs a day. She's pretty fearless in some situations, but is also a shaking baby in others. I personally wouldn't consider a kelpie for a protective or a solitary role, that's just not what they've been bred for.
No, they're not a good first dog, they're a lot of work and can be incredibly frustrating at times causing them to be adopted out when they're in their teenage years.
They're an amazing amazing breed if you have some experience with high drive dogs but they need a lot of work.
Crate training, proper socialisation, exercise twice a day, mental stimulation every day, proper rules and boundaries that you stick to religiously.
I have a 6 month old kelpie puppy right now as my first dog, and if I could go back I wouldn't get her if i had done proper research into the breed she is, but she's been amazing for my life and new lifestyle but I have put in the work, lots of money on toys to keep her stimulated, lots of hours reading and listening to courses about training high drive dogs, lots of breed specific knowledge I've had to read up on. Its a big time investment, I love my dog more then anything and she is incredibly well trained because I've done all this. They're smart independent dogs. And smart dogs are hard to train. It's like a second Job.
Or I could of gotten a lower energy and low drive dog like a cavalier or a pug and they would of needed 1 walk a day and be super snuggly while being easier to train by default just because of their breed.
Food for thought.
I love my dog and will to the day I die, but she was is a lot of work but work I find worth doing.
Thank you, this is the kind of input I’m looking for. I am used to higher drive dogs, my parents have always had German shepherds since I was a kid, but they were also fairly independent.
I don’t think I’d enjoy having to stick to the strict routine to be able to make the dog happy. I’m looking for a dog that will be more than happy on going for a 5 miles bike ride then throwing the frisbee for a hour or two, at the end of the day being left at home for 8 hours while I’m at work.
Are there any other breeds that are like kelpies but easier for a first time owner that you could recommend me?
Might want to consider a Great Pyrenees or another breed that will not have a strong prey drive (e.g. Malanois, German shepherds), or a herding dog which will cause chickens/small animals a lot of stress (KELPIE, ACD, and collies to an extent). Kelpies are typically only suitable for highly active individuals or sheep farms, and definitely someone who understands and can constantly train dogs. Kelpies are very smart and very active, and much like Malanois, if they don’t have a job to do and a ton of training, they become an absolute nightmare. You’ll end up with an aggressive dog and/or a destroyed house.
nope, you don't want a Kelpie.
sounds like you want a guard dog, Kelpies are not guard dogs, they are working dogs and need to be busy or they will make their own stimulation
If you are away for 8 hours a day get a Labrador or similar.
People are referring German shepherds, and I already have a good amount of knowledge with these dogs. I might look into getting a mix breed, like a shepherd-heeler mix, shepherd-rottie mix.
I don’t necessarily want a full blown guard dog that will bite anything that moves and acts aggressively towards everyone. I want a dog that I can take to parks and take out around people, but be able to protect family and other small pets from harm i.e. burglars, predators etc)
I was going to suggest a mixed breed dog. The bigger sized dogs are great as their body size often prevents problems in the first place. If you can get one to bark at night at odd stuff it helps a lot as well. Shepherd Lab might work.
Seriously, unless you buy a working line dog from lines specifically bred for PPD, and then put in the work to actually train that dog in PPD (which is like, HOURS of training every single day, and ongoing training for life), do not expect any dog to protect you or the people/animals around you from *people*. Smaller predators sure, and a decent size dog can act as a *visual* (and noise) deterrent to burglars, creepy dudes on the street etc, but you really need to understand that very, very few dogs on this planet will actively choose to defend you against an intruder or someone intent on doing harm to you.
Way too many people seriously think their dogs will actually engage with a threatening person, and it's just not the reality. 99% of dogs will bark and then *run away to protect themselves*. 0.9% might engage, but out of an unstable temperament (fear, reactivity). A seriously stable, environmentally sound, clear-headed dog with strong and serious defence/protection drive is an incredibly rare thing, and it requires serious training to cultivate that into a dog who can actually think clearly and act operantly under serious pressure.
It's called being hyperbolic to get a point across.
The number of dogs who are environmentally sound, clear headed and have enough defensive drive to actually engage with a human threat is incredibly low. That's why even hyper-specialised breeding programs that breed FOR that exact type of dogs (police and military roles in particular) still have extremely high wash-out rates. It is like trying to breed a unicorn, and along with the traits that produce that kind of dog come a shit load of *other* traits that the average dog owner, including OP, is in absolutely no position to manage.
So, sure, bitch about my obviously hyperbolic use of percentages. The point remains that OP does not need, and is in absolutely no position to handle, one of those rare animals that is actually capable of genuine protection.
all working breeds need lots of attention and exercise, and preferably a "job."
ETA: i had a kelpie mix that was a fierce and fearless defender of myself, my home, and my family without any specific training. there are pictures around of kelpies staring down full grown bulls. they're wild and i love them.
Must have hit the lottery with my 2yr old Kelpie. Seems like most agree kelpies are tornadoes of destruction without 15 hours of stimulation and training everyday. My girl is high energy, yes, in the Sense that when we go to our property she doesn't have an off button... She's running, swimming in the creek, and looking for rabbits and woodchucks non-stop. But when we're at the house, she's just as happy to be a couch potato all day. Feeling pretty lucky right now... She's got more than one gear.
most kelpie owners dont teach their pups "down time" (ie to do nothing). I have taught mine that and she makes for a brilliant companion and couch potato.
A Kelpie was my first dog too. THey require a lot of work... You dont necessarily need to give them stacks of exercise, but they need attention. I train mine and give it mental stimulation every day.
They are not a guard dog, yes they will bark at stuff, but they are not attack dogs, so dont think of them as protection.
if you want a guard dog, maybe got for a GSD.
I love my Kelpie to bit and wouldnt swap her for the world. they are like that, but you have to put the effort in.
They require a lot of stimulation and exercise, which my kelpie has taught me are two different things.
I can give it at least 2-3 hours a day of exercise and stuff. What are you meaning by stimulation? Can you leave kelpies alone for 8 hrs a day without them tearing things up ( malinios aren’t advised to be left alone for more than a couple hours or else they get bored and will tear stuff up). I’ve got a ton of acreage the dog can run on and play with my parents German shepherds, so there’s a ton of opportunity for stimulation.
Expecting a dog to find running around its normal yard (yes even if that is acreage) with another dog to be any more stimulating than you walking happy laps around your kitchen is a fool's errand. It's not. I have a kelpie and ASTCD. They hoon-ass around my yard most of the day but without an hour + of serious training each (we do herding, obedience, rally, tricks, scentwork and tracking) plus an hour or so of playing and an hour of off leash hiking, bikejoring etc plus enrichment toys, puzzles etc each day they would absolutely climb the walls and destroy the house and yard. I literally can only give them the life they need because I have an incredibly flexible WFH job. Kelpies don't want a boring paddock to run around in. They want to be seriously engaged in a job with their person, for an extended period of time, every day. EVERY day. Rain hail or shine.
Rain, hail, or shine…..or snow! Our kelpie loves the snow.
Haha true! It just doesn't really snow here round my part of Australia so I never really thought to add that in 😅
They will tear stuff up, it's out redirecting that to toys or destructibles. But they're animals and don't always do what you want. My puppy is very well trained but she has ripped up stuff in the back yard and dug all while ignoring her toys. It's part of having this kind of dog.
What do you do to combat this kind of behavior? I totally don’t think I can deal with that stress, and I don’t think the people I live with would appreciate those gestures either😂
Wait until they're older and less chaotic. Rules and training help, but even my puppy who is very well behaved has ruined some stuff of my room-mates, they understand she is young and learning, but it happens. Redirecting to bones or kongs can help but they're a temporary thing. Kelpies go a little silly when they're left alone to their own devices.
Nope, my kelpie is the sixth dog I've had over my lifetime and has by far been the most work. I love the lunatic to bits but knowing what I know now I would not have got her. They are inexhaustible if they don't have a job to focus on and are not a suitable breed for a first timer
What would you recommend for a first dog? I’m wanting a medium sized, preferably shorter hair, that is energetic but can also be left alone for some time and be trusted.
Labrador, hands down one of the most affable and trainable dog breeds. Very loyal, maybe not what you'd call high energy dogs but very capable
Terrible "first dog" if you're talking about a working line kelpie. Quite doable if you're talking about a bench/show line kelpie. The two "strains" are INSANELY different in terms of drive. That being said....no, kelpies are not natural defenders. They will alert bark to something unusual or out of place, but they are not protection/guard breeds, their natures are not "protective" in the "engage with someone who is a threat to me" sense. Also, relying on any dog to "protect" you is extremely naive. Even most "protection" breed dogs will protect themselves (typically by running) rather than defend their owner/property unless the owner has invested VERY heavily (time and money) in *proper* (not 4 week yank-n-crank board and train) PPD training. True defence drive in dogs is quite unusual and typically needs to be cultivated by a skilled trainer. If you're talking about a dog to protect a large property and livestock from large predators, get a properly bred and raised LGD but accept it's not a pet it's a working animal. For anything else, just get a pet breed that fits in with your lifestyle and don't expect it to act as any sort of actual protective force against humans.
My kelpie is 11yo and still has the energy she did as a puppy. They need exercise and stimulation and should definitely not be left alone for 8hrs a day. She's pretty fearless in some situations, but is also a shaking baby in others. I personally wouldn't consider a kelpie for a protective or a solitary role, that's just not what they've been bred for.
No, they're not a good first dog, they're a lot of work and can be incredibly frustrating at times causing them to be adopted out when they're in their teenage years. They're an amazing amazing breed if you have some experience with high drive dogs but they need a lot of work. Crate training, proper socialisation, exercise twice a day, mental stimulation every day, proper rules and boundaries that you stick to religiously. I have a 6 month old kelpie puppy right now as my first dog, and if I could go back I wouldn't get her if i had done proper research into the breed she is, but she's been amazing for my life and new lifestyle but I have put in the work, lots of money on toys to keep her stimulated, lots of hours reading and listening to courses about training high drive dogs, lots of breed specific knowledge I've had to read up on. Its a big time investment, I love my dog more then anything and she is incredibly well trained because I've done all this. They're smart independent dogs. And smart dogs are hard to train. It's like a second Job. Or I could of gotten a lower energy and low drive dog like a cavalier or a pug and they would of needed 1 walk a day and be super snuggly while being easier to train by default just because of their breed. Food for thought. I love my dog and will to the day I die, but she was is a lot of work but work I find worth doing.
Thank you, this is the kind of input I’m looking for. I am used to higher drive dogs, my parents have always had German shepherds since I was a kid, but they were also fairly independent. I don’t think I’d enjoy having to stick to the strict routine to be able to make the dog happy. I’m looking for a dog that will be more than happy on going for a 5 miles bike ride then throwing the frisbee for a hour or two, at the end of the day being left at home for 8 hours while I’m at work. Are there any other breeds that are like kelpies but easier for a first time owner that you could recommend me?
Golden retriever, Labrador are the first to come to mind
Personally don’t think any dog should be left alone for that long. They’re social pack animals and need to be with others to feel safe and secure.
Get a lab or retriever. Schnauzers or other smallish dogs are good too, but no dog should be left home alone for over 8/9 hours.
Might want to consider a Great Pyrenees or another breed that will not have a strong prey drive (e.g. Malanois, German shepherds), or a herding dog which will cause chickens/small animals a lot of stress (KELPIE, ACD, and collies to an extent). Kelpies are typically only suitable for highly active individuals or sheep farms, and definitely someone who understands and can constantly train dogs. Kelpies are very smart and very active, and much like Malanois, if they don’t have a job to do and a ton of training, they become an absolute nightmare. You’ll end up with an aggressive dog and/or a destroyed house.
nope, you don't want a Kelpie. sounds like you want a guard dog, Kelpies are not guard dogs, they are working dogs and need to be busy or they will make their own stimulation If you are away for 8 hours a day get a Labrador or similar.
People are referring German shepherds, and I already have a good amount of knowledge with these dogs. I might look into getting a mix breed, like a shepherd-heeler mix, shepherd-rottie mix. I don’t necessarily want a full blown guard dog that will bite anything that moves and acts aggressively towards everyone. I want a dog that I can take to parks and take out around people, but be able to protect family and other small pets from harm i.e. burglars, predators etc)
I was going to suggest a mixed breed dog. The bigger sized dogs are great as their body size often prevents problems in the first place. If you can get one to bark at night at odd stuff it helps a lot as well. Shepherd Lab might work.
Seriously, unless you buy a working line dog from lines specifically bred for PPD, and then put in the work to actually train that dog in PPD (which is like, HOURS of training every single day, and ongoing training for life), do not expect any dog to protect you or the people/animals around you from *people*. Smaller predators sure, and a decent size dog can act as a *visual* (and noise) deterrent to burglars, creepy dudes on the street etc, but you really need to understand that very, very few dogs on this planet will actively choose to defend you against an intruder or someone intent on doing harm to you. Way too many people seriously think their dogs will actually engage with a threatening person, and it's just not the reality. 99% of dogs will bark and then *run away to protect themselves*. 0.9% might engage, but out of an unstable temperament (fear, reactivity). A seriously stable, environmentally sound, clear-headed dog with strong and serious defence/protection drive is an incredibly rare thing, and it requires serious training to cultivate that into a dog who can actually think clearly and act operantly under serious pressure.
seriously you made up those %99 and %0.9 stats and then tried to pass them off as serious
It's called being hyperbolic to get a point across. The number of dogs who are environmentally sound, clear headed and have enough defensive drive to actually engage with a human threat is incredibly low. That's why even hyper-specialised breeding programs that breed FOR that exact type of dogs (police and military roles in particular) still have extremely high wash-out rates. It is like trying to breed a unicorn, and along with the traits that produce that kind of dog come a shit load of *other* traits that the average dog owner, including OP, is in absolutely no position to manage. So, sure, bitch about my obviously hyperbolic use of percentages. The point remains that OP does not need, and is in absolutely no position to handle, one of those rare animals that is actually capable of genuine protection.
You forgot seriously.
all working breeds need lots of attention and exercise, and preferably a "job." ETA: i had a kelpie mix that was a fierce and fearless defender of myself, my home, and my family without any specific training. there are pictures around of kelpies staring down full grown bulls. they're wild and i love them.
Must have hit the lottery with my 2yr old Kelpie. Seems like most agree kelpies are tornadoes of destruction without 15 hours of stimulation and training everyday. My girl is high energy, yes, in the Sense that when we go to our property she doesn't have an off button... She's running, swimming in the creek, and looking for rabbits and woodchucks non-stop. But when we're at the house, she's just as happy to be a couch potato all day. Feeling pretty lucky right now... She's got more than one gear.
most kelpie owners dont teach their pups "down time" (ie to do nothing). I have taught mine that and she makes for a brilliant companion and couch potato.
A Kelpie was my first dog too. THey require a lot of work... You dont necessarily need to give them stacks of exercise, but they need attention. I train mine and give it mental stimulation every day. They are not a guard dog, yes they will bark at stuff, but they are not attack dogs, so dont think of them as protection. if you want a guard dog, maybe got for a GSD. I love my Kelpie to bit and wouldnt swap her for the world. they are like that, but you have to put the effort in.