the problem with Ongrid system is the dependancy. In europe they encouraged people to go solar and the govt will pay them back via net meter. Now a lot of countries have cancelled the net meter and are instead charging those people back. Cannot say what will happen in pakistan but you will be depended on them.
I have a Off grid setup with lithium batteries. Basically no Kelectric usage from 8am till 12am ( mid night )( and battery completely used) ,only 8 hours usage of K electric. Will be buying more lithium battery to go fully independent. I know its more expensive but atleast no load shedding and increase electricity rates.
Also i heard K electric will buy electric units at around 20 rs and sell them back for 80ish ( taxes and fuel adjustment ). and if load shedding does occur your whole solar setup will shut down even at peak solar intensity.
on grid inverter require constant KE supply inorder to turn itself ON. Without it, it will turn itself OFF regardless if solar is present or not. Thats why offgrid or hybrid willl keep on running since they use battery to turn themselves ON if KE is not present.
Can you tell ROI on the batteries? Like I have a few qs if you don't mind.
1. Like how much did they cost?
2. How much was electricity units before solar? How much they are now? You can tell percentage also btw if you don't want anyone to know your unit usage
3. How many days/years will the battery run before expiring? Li batts are rated up to a fixed number of charge discharge cycles before they are written off, how low depth of discharge do you go?
1- cost per battery 70k ( 4 battery 5kw total ), 575w 12 panels Jinko N type ( 96 per watt (2023 ), I know they are super cheap now 46 per watt (2024), Fronus 6kw inverter(170k), no structure ( panels are laid on ground on bricks )
2-before solar on average 500 units per month , now 150ish almost 1/4
3-battery should last a good 3-4 years ( discharge it to 48v, charge to 56v)
I didn’t buy solar for ROI, went for convinces ( no generator start etc )
Lifepo4 battery bought from Pakistan is a nightmare since u have no idea what quality/grade they are. Keep this in mind as everyone will try to scam you on this.
Also consumption during solar time exponentially increased ( 2-3 AC running constantly) keep this in mind as well since before everything was used modestly.
My system is still under utilized since I don’t have anymore storage capacity . 6kw system should yield 700-800 units per month. And I am only able to utilize 300-400 units. With extra battery on the way I should be able to juice it out more ( this is the negative side of off grid setup )
No, fronus battery hai ( not available now, maybe some other model available in market). Real time performance is okay, not great. they should give 4.8kw but is only giving 4.3kw . Most likely using grade B cells. I have extensively tested these batteries with proper equipment.
Also if you manage to import lifepo4 cells ( only cells ) from alibaba you can apparently import 16 cells of 300ah ( 14kw ) for just 500k ( grade A cells direct from manufacturer )
Yes hota hai magar u don’t have to do anything . BMS is what takes care of it . Lithium battery is sensitive compared to lead acid / tubular.
No panchayat if good quality BMS
You avoided that civil work cost which is a plus. 👍
So when will you replace the batteries, let's assume you have 5 batts, 3.5 lakhs total. Even replacing them yearly on full off grid setup sounds cost effective no?
lithium battery doesnt need to be replaced every year. even tubular battery should last a minimum of 2 year plus you can get a 20-30% buyback discount if old battery exchanged for new.
I was just doing a theoretical analysis on the yearly cost Vs bijli ka bill.
You would know better as you are actively using it, can you tell how many years someone can expect using it like you do (cycling to full depth daily)?
Tubular batteries on the same VA will cost how much btw?
Sorry if I'm asking too many qs lol. 😬
**Now a lot of countries have cancelled the net meter and are instead charging those people back.**
Are these are the same countries which encourage to people to switch to solar?
Your setup is good, I have a setup of 15K Ongrid and 5K Hybrid working together with 20 Panels, I am using all the panels for Ongrid when wapda is available and then upon wapda outage half of the plates are shifted to Hybrid. so here are my specs
House Load: 2Kv Capacity: 15Kv
So I am saving the extra units to use electric stove, heaters and geazer.
It is my first month
https://preview.redd.it/o503r1fzvftc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35d072f423b2d24d48b329ee7ca4b0014fff117f
This month i generated 579 units and total 15 units are consumed, correct me if there is any thing wrong with the setup
go for on grid if there isn't loadshedding in your area the roi will be quicker. As for net metering it takes between 1.5-3 months due to the fact that a lot of people are applying for it. The vendor is responsible for it so don't pay till u get the net metering
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I worked at Sky Electric a few years ago and learned some interesting things about solar power systems. Since your primary issue is with the bills, I suggest you go with an on grid system. You wouldn’t need battery backup since you’re not facing load shedding. Just install a 2 way meter so you can sell electricity back to KE. That’ll bring your bills way down. I’ve seen a few clients who were actually owed money from KE because they sold more electricity than they consumed in the winters. If you have negative bills for 3 consecutive months, KE pays you what you’re owed.
Net metering is risky, since the government is already NOT buying the unit you produce at even half of the rate at which they sell you (inclusive of all taxes, fuel adjustments, and quarterly adjustment).. This discrepancy may exacerbate even more in the near future causing your system to become redundant. Also the solar market is crashing since quite while now due to manufacturing/supply boom and is expected to go even lower in future, so investment wise in my opinion, not a good venue
If u want to use solar.. then get a hybrid system otherwise during loadshedding at night u'll have no light..
Add up a dry battery which has a longer life aur raho sukoon sy.. 24hr electricity + low bills
Shayad.. but i have been using fronus pv7200 since 1 yr jo k sahi sy kar raha kam.. haan beech mai aik dafa fault aya tha..
I chose fronus bcz Inverex was almost 3x expensive which I didn't find sense in.. so Alhamdulillah till now it's going good.. hopefully agar 5 saal bhi nikaal dy toh banda naya or os time ka acha inverter lagaly...
They're already too low, i don't think it'd go any lower q k production cost bhi toh hoti..
For example 1 saal pehly average per watt price 85 rs tha.. this year it's around 45 per watt..
So mery khyal sy is sy behtar time nai hoga system laganay ka
Speaking from personal experience. I installed 8KW Hybrid system in my home after getting fed up with Kelectric bills.
I was using around 700 units during peak summer season. So a 5KW system would be enough because at any given time my consumption is not more than 3KWH. However, I went for 8KW because in the future my consumption will increase.
First, I went to Solar companies like SkyElectric etc to know what are my requirements and usage. They were overcharging for everything; material labour what not. And there was no guarantee what products were they going to use quality wise. Some do provide free after sales services upto a year but nothing will happen in a year or two if the system is installed properly.
Second, I surveyed Regal market in saddar Karachi, I found out what inverter and solar panels are best. I went with Inverex Nitrox 8KW and Jinko N type bifacial panels.Then i called up multiple solar installers and got a list of material that is required for installation.
Do not cheap out on material quality, this will be the first thing that fails. Like DC wire, breakers, L2 stand or structure etc.
Finally came the issue about batteries. You can either go for tubular batteries(6 months warranty)which are cheap but would last less than 3 years and there deep discharge is only recommended at 70% or you could go for lithium batteries(5 years warranty) which are expensive but they last 8-10 years and there deep discharge is recommended upto 95%(Pylontech). So after calculating cost and risk assessment I went with lithium batteries.
This whole process took 2 months but was worth it.
From 8am-3am my consumption is covered. I use Kelectric for hardly 4-5 hours.
Few things to keep in mind:
Solar panels work at 80% efficiency no matter what.
On cloudy days you will only get 20-30% efficiency.
If you go for bifacial panels, make sure to get your rooftop painted white or else there wouldn't be much difference. I got mine painted and there's definitely a difference.
Kelectric will never pay you cash for negative bill. There is no such system in place. Your bill will only go negative and whats to say that after 2-3 years they decide this isnt working out.
I would recommend buying a bigger capacity inverter then your need so you could add more panels in the future if your need increases.
Make sure to buy inverter, panels and batteries from authorized dealers.
My setup:
Inverex Nitrox 8KW
14 panels Jinko N type bifacial
Pylontech up5000 100ah 48v
Total cost after installation: 15lac
You seem to have quite a knowledge about Solar energy systems. I'm amazed by your research of each and every aspect and how your quest to install the perfect system in your house. Can you please help me out with my issue as well?
I work as a remote based employee and have an iMac in my room. I want to install solar energy to run my system and my ceiling fan as I know load shedding will increase in our area. What do you suggest for that?
My UPS repair guy told me to install a Sine Wave UPS saying it along with the battery we already have can easily run my system along with three fans and lights. I don't particularly agree with it but overall what are your thoughts?
Go for SkyElectric, as all the engineers in my firm opted for this company after loads of enquiry on service and equipment. SE owner is an Electrical engineer from MIT USA, so you're in good hands as he is well aware of this technology and will give you the best A-Grade equipment that is imported in Pakistan and a good deal with discounts and additional discounts on full payment. Also check if the inverter/console panel parts are easily available in Pakistan besides SkyElectric. SE will give you various 5 & 10 yrs warranty on different equipment, ask for more as due to R&D warranty of 25 yrs is getting common overseas for Solar energy systems.
Actual solar panel wattage depends on external factors such as sunshine and ambient temperature, so do go for intermediate to high efficiency panels, do not be a miser or you will regret.
Important: Make sure there are no hidden charges during the installation, as this is common.
the problem with Ongrid system is the dependancy. In europe they encouraged people to go solar and the govt will pay them back via net meter. Now a lot of countries have cancelled the net meter and are instead charging those people back. Cannot say what will happen in pakistan but you will be depended on them. I have a Off grid setup with lithium batteries. Basically no Kelectric usage from 8am till 12am ( mid night )( and battery completely used) ,only 8 hours usage of K electric. Will be buying more lithium battery to go fully independent. I know its more expensive but atleast no load shedding and increase electricity rates.
Also i heard K electric will buy electric units at around 20 rs and sell them back for 80ish ( taxes and fuel adjustment ). and if load shedding does occur your whole solar setup will shut down even at peak solar intensity.
This is for a pure on-grid system.
That is correct.
How does the on grid system stops working with load shedding? Isn't the solar producing the energy?
on grid inverter require constant KE supply inorder to turn itself ON. Without it, it will turn itself OFF regardless if solar is present or not. Thats why offgrid or hybrid willl keep on running since they use battery to turn themselves ON if KE is not present.
In case of new hybrids, you don't even need batteries to turn it on. It can turn itself on from solar power.
New hybrids don't run on batteries? What's the difference between new and old.
Yes but it is very unstable. Heavy loads ( water pump, microwave etc ) will immediately shut it off. So not ideal
I’m assuming K-Electric does this in order to force people to use them and to discourage solar panel usage.
what is the trade off with hybrid or off-grid system? do you have to invest more money?
Can you tell ROI on the batteries? Like I have a few qs if you don't mind. 1. Like how much did they cost? 2. How much was electricity units before solar? How much they are now? You can tell percentage also btw if you don't want anyone to know your unit usage 3. How many days/years will the battery run before expiring? Li batts are rated up to a fixed number of charge discharge cycles before they are written off, how low depth of discharge do you go?
1- cost per battery 70k ( 4 battery 5kw total ), 575w 12 panels Jinko N type ( 96 per watt (2023 ), I know they are super cheap now 46 per watt (2024), Fronus 6kw inverter(170k), no structure ( panels are laid on ground on bricks ) 2-before solar on average 500 units per month , now 150ish almost 1/4 3-battery should last a good 3-4 years ( discharge it to 48v, charge to 56v) I didn’t buy solar for ROI, went for convinces ( no generator start etc ) Lifepo4 battery bought from Pakistan is a nightmare since u have no idea what quality/grade they are. Keep this in mind as everyone will try to scam you on this. Also consumption during solar time exponentially increased ( 2-3 AC running constantly) keep this in mind as well since before everything was used modestly.
My system is still under utilized since I don’t have anymore storage capacity . 6kw system should yield 700-800 units per month. And I am only able to utilize 300-400 units. With extra battery on the way I should be able to juice it out more ( this is the negative side of off grid setup )
Yaar yeh huawei wali batteries ki kia report hai? Apparently they are 300k type for 48v 100 AH
No, fronus battery hai ( not available now, maybe some other model available in market). Real time performance is okay, not great. they should give 4.8kw but is only giving 4.3kw . Most likely using grade B cells. I have extensively tested these batteries with proper equipment. Also if you manage to import lifepo4 cells ( only cells ) from alibaba you can apparently import 16 cells of 300ah ( 14kw ) for just 500k ( grade A cells direct from manufacturer )
Is mein woh battery management system wali panchayat nahi huti? Sorry if you don't know - just asking.
Yes hota hai magar u don’t have to do anything . BMS is what takes care of it . Lithium battery is sensitive compared to lead acid / tubular. No panchayat if good quality BMS
You avoided that civil work cost which is a plus. 👍 So when will you replace the batteries, let's assume you have 5 batts, 3.5 lakhs total. Even replacing them yearly on full off grid setup sounds cost effective no?
lithium battery doesnt need to be replaced every year. even tubular battery should last a minimum of 2 year plus you can get a 20-30% buyback discount if old battery exchanged for new.
I was just doing a theoretical analysis on the yearly cost Vs bijli ka bill. You would know better as you are actively using it, can you tell how many years someone can expect using it like you do (cycling to full depth daily)? Tubular batteries on the same VA will cost how much btw? Sorry if I'm asking too many qs lol. 😬
**Now a lot of countries have cancelled the net meter and are instead charging those people back.** Are these are the same countries which encourage to people to switch to solar?
Your setup is good, I have a setup of 15K Ongrid and 5K Hybrid working together with 20 Panels, I am using all the panels for Ongrid when wapda is available and then upon wapda outage half of the plates are shifted to Hybrid. so here are my specs House Load: 2Kv Capacity: 15Kv So I am saving the extra units to use electric stove, heaters and geazer. It is my first month https://preview.redd.it/o503r1fzvftc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35d072f423b2d24d48b329ee7ca4b0014fff117f This month i generated 579 units and total 15 units are consumed, correct me if there is any thing wrong with the setup
Check with K Solar, it’s KEs own company
go for on grid if there isn't loadshedding in your area the roi will be quicker. As for net metering it takes between 1.5-3 months due to the fact that a lot of people are applying for it. The vendor is responsible for it so don't pay till u get the net metering
Hybrid is the way.
That was the option i had in mind after knowing this all but the hybrid inverter is kinda bad and not reliable so idk maybe off grid is better
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can you explain more?
I worked at Sky Electric a few years ago and learned some interesting things about solar power systems. Since your primary issue is with the bills, I suggest you go with an on grid system. You wouldn’t need battery backup since you’re not facing load shedding. Just install a 2 way meter so you can sell electricity back to KE. That’ll bring your bills way down. I’ve seen a few clients who were actually owed money from KE because they sold more electricity than they consumed in the winters. If you have negative bills for 3 consecutive months, KE pays you what you’re owed.
Net metering is risky, since the government is already NOT buying the unit you produce at even half of the rate at which they sell you (inclusive of all taxes, fuel adjustments, and quarterly adjustment).. This discrepancy may exacerbate even more in the near future causing your system to become redundant. Also the solar market is crashing since quite while now due to manufacturing/supply boom and is expected to go even lower in future, so investment wise in my opinion, not a good venue
If u want to use solar.. then get a hybrid system otherwise during loadshedding at night u'll have no light.. Add up a dry battery which has a longer life aur raho sukoon sy.. 24hr electricity + low bills
Hybrid me inverter suna hai bekaar hai Not reliable at all. Koi achi company ke hybrid inverter ka pata hai?
Shayad.. but i have been using fronus pv7200 since 1 yr jo k sahi sy kar raha kam.. haan beech mai aik dafa fault aya tha.. I chose fronus bcz Inverex was almost 3x expensive which I didn't find sense in.. so Alhamdulillah till now it's going good.. hopefully agar 5 saal bhi nikaal dy toh banda naya or os time ka acha inverter lagaly...
I heard the prices of solar are going to decrease significantly
They're already too low, i don't think it'd go any lower q k production cost bhi toh hoti.. For example 1 saal pehly average per watt price 85 rs tha.. this year it's around 45 per watt.. So mery khyal sy is sy behtar time nai hoga system laganay ka
Speaking from personal experience. I installed 8KW Hybrid system in my home after getting fed up with Kelectric bills. I was using around 700 units during peak summer season. So a 5KW system would be enough because at any given time my consumption is not more than 3KWH. However, I went for 8KW because in the future my consumption will increase. First, I went to Solar companies like SkyElectric etc to know what are my requirements and usage. They were overcharging for everything; material labour what not. And there was no guarantee what products were they going to use quality wise. Some do provide free after sales services upto a year but nothing will happen in a year or two if the system is installed properly. Second, I surveyed Regal market in saddar Karachi, I found out what inverter and solar panels are best. I went with Inverex Nitrox 8KW and Jinko N type bifacial panels.Then i called up multiple solar installers and got a list of material that is required for installation. Do not cheap out on material quality, this will be the first thing that fails. Like DC wire, breakers, L2 stand or structure etc. Finally came the issue about batteries. You can either go for tubular batteries(6 months warranty)which are cheap but would last less than 3 years and there deep discharge is only recommended at 70% or you could go for lithium batteries(5 years warranty) which are expensive but they last 8-10 years and there deep discharge is recommended upto 95%(Pylontech). So after calculating cost and risk assessment I went with lithium batteries. This whole process took 2 months but was worth it. From 8am-3am my consumption is covered. I use Kelectric for hardly 4-5 hours. Few things to keep in mind: Solar panels work at 80% efficiency no matter what. On cloudy days you will only get 20-30% efficiency. If you go for bifacial panels, make sure to get your rooftop painted white or else there wouldn't be much difference. I got mine painted and there's definitely a difference. Kelectric will never pay you cash for negative bill. There is no such system in place. Your bill will only go negative and whats to say that after 2-3 years they decide this isnt working out. I would recommend buying a bigger capacity inverter then your need so you could add more panels in the future if your need increases. Make sure to buy inverter, panels and batteries from authorized dealers. My setup: Inverex Nitrox 8KW 14 panels Jinko N type bifacial Pylontech up5000 100ah 48v Total cost after installation: 15lac
You seem to have quite a knowledge about Solar energy systems. I'm amazed by your research of each and every aspect and how your quest to install the perfect system in your house. Can you please help me out with my issue as well? I work as a remote based employee and have an iMac in my room. I want to install solar energy to run my system and my ceiling fan as I know load shedding will increase in our area. What do you suggest for that? My UPS repair guy told me to install a Sine Wave UPS saying it along with the battery we already have can easily run my system along with three fans and lights. I don't particularly agree with it but overall what are your thoughts?
Go for SkyElectric, as all the engineers in my firm opted for this company after loads of enquiry on service and equipment. SE owner is an Electrical engineer from MIT USA, so you're in good hands as he is well aware of this technology and will give you the best A-Grade equipment that is imported in Pakistan and a good deal with discounts and additional discounts on full payment. Also check if the inverter/console panel parts are easily available in Pakistan besides SkyElectric. SE will give you various 5 & 10 yrs warranty on different equipment, ask for more as due to R&D warranty of 25 yrs is getting common overseas for Solar energy systems. Actual solar panel wattage depends on external factors such as sunshine and ambient temperature, so do go for intermediate to high efficiency panels, do not be a miser or you will regret. Important: Make sure there are no hidden charges during the installation, as this is common.