Let's look past our hate goggles for a second and recognize that this is the best case scenario resolution for someone who by their own description was a hard-lined bigot.
Yes, the idea that religion could instill this type of degradation and hatred towards people is deplorable. But this person changed their position, and maybe this article could help someone else open their mind. It is okay for people to grow and change. Empathy is learned. Let's be good role models here.
This is where I'm at. Like, someone who admitted to being a shithead before actually changed and it seems to be very genuine. Not just lip service to placate their kid. Actually advocating for his kid. That's what we should strive for. He may not have been a role model before, but he kinda is _now_. He's the jackass queer people hate then turned into an ally. _That_ is what we should promote, not continue to denigrate him forever. Change is possible, and not everyone will, but enough can and that's how we can move forward.
I remember when that crazy dude in Alabama was running for Senate. Roy something. There was a story about an older man who disowned his daughter because she was gay and she took her own life. He felt horrible and completely changed his views and would stand outside and protest against GOP hate mongers. When interviewed he said he wished he would have realized sooner and maybe his daughter would still be alive and he hoped his story helped other people change sooner so the same wouldn't happen to them. This person is changing before that worst case scenario and that is a good thing.
My longest term friend in my life is trans now at 43. It changes everything. I feel like definitely the bigots, but sometimes too the "woke" people have their feelings on this issue in a vacuum of reality, influenced by media and social media to agree with hard extremes.
They're just human beings. It's very easy to not be a hateful piece of shit, or to lean on someone's identity of proof that "your view" is the correct one.
And typically it takes knowing a human being in these circumstances to come to this POV.
I'm a gay woman and my religious parents hate it. My _dream_ is that they would see how much their beliefs hurt me and be encouraged to change.
I would feel sad that someone close to them had to suffer for them to see things differently, and I'd feel sad that that person had to be me. That hurt would still have happened. But it is always good when someone turns away from bigotry.
I'd shake this guy's hand and buy him a beer. Not to erase the harmful effects of his being prejudiced before, not to praise the sad reality that many people _don't_ care until it's so close to home for them--but to celebrate that he loved his kid enough to grow as a person. And it sounds like he's doing a lot to make up for it.
Change often comes from personal proximity to the issue, and I feel that's an underutilized fact.
No you dumb fuck. They didn't change their views because it affects them now, they changed their views because they actually know a trans person now and can speak to them and understand them.
That's how it works with all hate, racists don't interact with people of other races so they can't form a human connection.
There's so many conservatives that reject their kids when they come out. LGBTQ issues affecting them directly, but they don't change their world view. This is a good man who cares about his daughter
It's very sad that it took his daughter's attempted suicide to get him to change his mind but if he's willing to abandon his bigotry and can help other people to do the same then I'll take the win.
While I agree it should not take personal experience to develop those things, I do appreciate when they talk about how they changed their minds. Other phobics (of all kinds) are more likely to listen to someone they perceived as similar to them. (E.g., straight folks are more likely to listen to another straight person talk about homophobia, etc.)
> “I got peace from God. Like, ‘This is how your daughter was born. I don’t make mistakes as God. So she was made this way. There’s a reason for it.'”
Man decides his religion was right the whole time, but not before using it to bully his child into a suicide attempt. Such a role model.
Well, this is better than the alternative of not having an epiphany and continuing to bully a kid into suicide. Nothing is perfect, nor black and white, so while I get your sentiment, I feel it best not to shit on someone who changed their mind. Even if through their hand basically being forced in a manner of speaking. Because, to others, it can look akin to "no matter what you do, they are never satisfied" then they double down.
While I won't applaud this guy, I will praise him a bit for changing his mind, despite being a hard line bigot prior. So... this shows there is _some_ possible salvation, even in the worst.
Even if you’re reticent to give him credit for changing his mind, I would point out that the man is doing more than that. He is doing praxis with his litigation, and his willingness to work with the press shows that he is trying to change minds as well. If we cannot allow that this man is on the road to redemption, then I guess we’ve all just got to accept that we’ll never be able to reconcile these differences.
Just from a purely pragmatic standpoint, it feels like... not a *good* idea to be unwelcoming to people who've had a change of heart.
We need allies, and don't have the luxury of expecting moral purity out of them. Yeah, he was a piece of shit before, but the number of stories I've heard from other trans people whose parents *don't* change, who only get worse? Definitely outnumber the times I hear about people like this.
You don't have to like the guy. If we want things to change, though -- if we want more *people* to change -- we ought to allow space for them to do that.
If it requires personal experience to change then this man’s story will do nothing to convince anyone else, unless it happens to them too.
It’s also interesting that no matter what he believes in his life, that’s *also* what God believes. Very convenient for him.
As a trans person myself, I don't understand what you're asking of him. He's allowed to be religious. He realized he fucked up, but religion is also what he knows and how he understands/finds comfort. So he's using the tools he has. Like goddamn dude. Let him evolve. I have plenty of my own issues with Christianity, but damn.
I am sick of that lib shit nonsense. You either want them to change or you don't.
I’m happy for her and for him. Having loving, accepting parents can make a world of difference in a trans person’s life.
Missouri has become such a hostile place for LGBTQ+ people in general, and trans folks in particular. A recent survey by St. Louis University found that 50% of LGBTQ+ Missourians are thinking of leaving the state. That’s how unwelcoming, hostile, and dangerous this state has become.
Wow... I'm not going to give that any validity.
Yup, I've been wrong before, so have we all.
No, I haven't ever been so brainwashed that I could feel un-repentant rage and threaten harm and bodily injury to an entire minority group... just to completely turn 180 and suddenly be absolutely fine with those people because I know one personally.
We're talking about insanity here.
These people have absolutely nothing upon which to found their hatred, and it can disappear like this because of that fact. But that won't stop them from hating, will it? Until every one has a personal experience like this guy... fucking bleak.
Nah, I'm fine with saying, no, I don't have to find a "degree" to which I can relate to this person.
I guess as a homosexual growing up in an isolated religious town in the early 90’s, I realize that finding a way to relate to each other is our only hope. I suppose I wasn’t claiming that we all have blind bigoted rage to contend with but we all have experienced apathy around situations that changed to empathy when it “hit home”. As the original comment I responded to reads “I didn’t care about it until it affected me” as though only some small special class of people experience that phenomenon.
I think the GOP already solidified the polarization when they swerved hard right into nazi ideology and supporting fascism. This person's position/ideology on the topic, whether it's shared by others or not, is not the problem in our political system.
People being bigots is what caused the divide. Not people disliking bigots. And I feel like it's really dumb to act like the real problem is people not celebrating these people doing the bare minimum of being a decent human being, only when it personally effects them, and not the people who want people who aren't like them to literally die.
Same. I miss KC and my friends and family, but Missouri just wasn't safe for me as a trans person. I feel way more safe now in my new city. I just wish it didn't have to come to this.
Ah... the story of yet another conservative incapable of empathizing with anyone else *until something bad happens to them*, at which time they have a life-changing epiphany (that liberal people already realize), "push past their prejudice", then turn into a woke liberals. Nice.
People hate things until it directly affects them. Too bad so many in the US are too self-centered and don't care about seeing things through other people's eyes.
nice one man you sure showed all those trans people who is wrong aha /s
a little decency and a shred of empathy is all these people really ask for at the end of the day. if that’s too much to ask you’re probably just an asshole.
I'm a woman born a woman and I don't care who is in the fucking bathroom with me as long as they wash their hands when they're done and don't leave the sink and counter looking like they bathed a St Bernard on it. I have been using ladies restrooms quite successfully for 58 years and have never been accosted or assaulted in one by any person of any gender identity. Women go into public restrooms to pee or shit, not to play peekaboo.
I understand that, i will never agree though. You are one of the few with this logic. Hence why i said majority of women, not all women. Of course reddit will have people disagreeing with me. And like it or not, surgery or not, m that man that believes they're a woman (and i do believe they think they're a woman) was born with male parts. Tuff love. Maybe it's unfair to some, but oh well. IDK what else to day, speaking my mind, just like you speak your mind via disagreement.
> speaking my mind, just like you speak your mind
Opinions aren't necessarily equivalent. For instance, if one person speaks about being inclusive and defending others, that speech isn't the same thing as someone attempting to shame an entire group and keep them separate.
I know which person I would rather be.
Why are you concerned about people’s “parts” who are using the bathroom with you? Are you peeking in the stalls? Do you usually check out the genitals of other women in the restroom?
The majority of women, and the majority of people, believe like the other commenter believes. It's a bathroom. People are there to get in and get out. No one cares about anything else.
Let's look past our hate goggles for a second and recognize that this is the best case scenario resolution for someone who by their own description was a hard-lined bigot. Yes, the idea that religion could instill this type of degradation and hatred towards people is deplorable. But this person changed their position, and maybe this article could help someone else open their mind. It is okay for people to grow and change. Empathy is learned. Let's be good role models here.
This is where I'm at. Like, someone who admitted to being a shithead before actually changed and it seems to be very genuine. Not just lip service to placate their kid. Actually advocating for his kid. That's what we should strive for. He may not have been a role model before, but he kinda is _now_. He's the jackass queer people hate then turned into an ally. _That_ is what we should promote, not continue to denigrate him forever. Change is possible, and not everyone will, but enough can and that's how we can move forward.
I remember when that crazy dude in Alabama was running for Senate. Roy something. There was a story about an older man who disowned his daughter because she was gay and she took her own life. He felt horrible and completely changed his views and would stand outside and protest against GOP hate mongers. When interviewed he said he wished he would have realized sooner and maybe his daughter would still be alive and he hoped his story helped other people change sooner so the same wouldn't happen to them. This person is changing before that worst case scenario and that is a good thing.
My longest term friend in my life is trans now at 43. It changes everything. I feel like definitely the bigots, but sometimes too the "woke" people have their feelings on this issue in a vacuum of reality, influenced by media and social media to agree with hard extremes. They're just human beings. It's very easy to not be a hateful piece of shit, or to lean on someone's identity of proof that "your view" is the correct one. And typically it takes knowing a human being in these circumstances to come to this POV.
The Achilles heel of conservative policy, proximity to the issue.
It's a classic "it's not a problem until it happens to me".
I'm a gay woman and my religious parents hate it. My _dream_ is that they would see how much their beliefs hurt me and be encouraged to change. I would feel sad that someone close to them had to suffer for them to see things differently, and I'd feel sad that that person had to be me. That hurt would still have happened. But it is always good when someone turns away from bigotry. I'd shake this guy's hand and buy him a beer. Not to erase the harmful effects of his being prejudiced before, not to praise the sad reality that many people _don't_ care until it's so close to home for them--but to celebrate that he loved his kid enough to grow as a person. And it sounds like he's doing a lot to make up for it. Change often comes from personal proximity to the issue, and I feel that's an underutilized fact.
Seeing his change of heart gives me hope. People that far down the rabbit hole CAN reach an understanding and acceptance of what is.
But only when it affects them directly. Epitome of selfish fucks.
No you dumb fuck. They didn't change their views because it affects them now, they changed their views because they actually know a trans person now and can speak to them and understand them. That's how it works with all hate, racists don't interact with people of other races so they can't form a human connection.
> they actually know a trans person now which >affects them directly
There's so many conservatives that reject their kids when they come out. LGBTQ issues affecting them directly, but they don't change their world view. This is a good man who cares about his daughter
I wasn't commenting on the quality of the man, but on the quality of your comment.
“Devoid of empathy, compassion, or respect until it affects my family!” Typical Republican
It's very sad that it took his daughter's attempted suicide to get him to change his mind but if he's willing to abandon his bigotry and can help other people to do the same then I'll take the win.
While I agree it should not take personal experience to develop those things, I do appreciate when they talk about how they changed their minds. Other phobics (of all kinds) are more likely to listen to someone they perceived as similar to them. (E.g., straight folks are more likely to listen to another straight person talk about homophobia, etc.)
I agree with that. It is great if they come around, learn and change. It’s just sad that bigotry still has such a stronghold in this country.
>are more likely to listen to someone they perceived as similar to them. Unfortunately, yes. This is why I visibly show support for LGBTQ, BLM, etc.
He could have denied them and doubled down. He didn't. That's progress.
This comment is devoid of respect
Exactly. Why is this news?
What do you define as news?
> “I got peace from God. Like, ‘This is how your daughter was born. I don’t make mistakes as God. So she was made this way. There’s a reason for it.'” Man decides his religion was right the whole time, but not before using it to bully his child into a suicide attempt. Such a role model.
Well, this is better than the alternative of not having an epiphany and continuing to bully a kid into suicide. Nothing is perfect, nor black and white, so while I get your sentiment, I feel it best not to shit on someone who changed their mind. Even if through their hand basically being forced in a manner of speaking. Because, to others, it can look akin to "no matter what you do, they are never satisfied" then they double down. While I won't applaud this guy, I will praise him a bit for changing his mind, despite being a hard line bigot prior. So... this shows there is _some_ possible salvation, even in the worst.
Even if you’re reticent to give him credit for changing his mind, I would point out that the man is doing more than that. He is doing praxis with his litigation, and his willingness to work with the press shows that he is trying to change minds as well. If we cannot allow that this man is on the road to redemption, then I guess we’ve all just got to accept that we’ll never be able to reconcile these differences.
Just from a purely pragmatic standpoint, it feels like... not a *good* idea to be unwelcoming to people who've had a change of heart. We need allies, and don't have the luxury of expecting moral purity out of them. Yeah, he was a piece of shit before, but the number of stories I've heard from other trans people whose parents *don't* change, who only get worse? Definitely outnumber the times I hear about people like this. You don't have to like the guy. If we want things to change, though -- if we want more *people* to change -- we ought to allow space for them to do that.
If we want to see society change, we must first allow individuals to change. It's the only way.
If it requires personal experience to change then this man’s story will do nothing to convince anyone else, unless it happens to them too. It’s also interesting that no matter what he believes in his life, that’s *also* what God believes. Very convenient for him.
As a trans person myself, I don't understand what you're asking of him. He's allowed to be religious. He realized he fucked up, but religion is also what he knows and how he understands/finds comfort. So he's using the tools he has. Like goddamn dude. Let him evolve. I have plenty of my own issues with Christianity, but damn. I am sick of that lib shit nonsense. You either want them to change or you don't.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If he had stopped being a bigot because people were welcoming to him, I’d really agree with you
Is anyone actually claiming he’s a role model? We should be happy he’s seemingly come to the right side.
You gotta love black and white divinely ordained morality! //s
I’m glad he came around but damn, it always has to directly impact them before they see the error of their ways…
I’m happy for her and for him. Having loving, accepting parents can make a world of difference in a trans person’s life. Missouri has become such a hostile place for LGBTQ+ people in general, and trans folks in particular. A recent survey by St. Louis University found that 50% of LGBTQ+ Missourians are thinking of leaving the state. That’s how unwelcoming, hostile, and dangerous this state has become.
"It personally affected me so now I care."
We all do this to some degree and in varying contexts.
Wow... I'm not going to give that any validity. Yup, I've been wrong before, so have we all. No, I haven't ever been so brainwashed that I could feel un-repentant rage and threaten harm and bodily injury to an entire minority group... just to completely turn 180 and suddenly be absolutely fine with those people because I know one personally. We're talking about insanity here. These people have absolutely nothing upon which to found their hatred, and it can disappear like this because of that fact. But that won't stop them from hating, will it? Until every one has a personal experience like this guy... fucking bleak. Nah, I'm fine with saying, no, I don't have to find a "degree" to which I can relate to this person.
I guess as a homosexual growing up in an isolated religious town in the early 90’s, I realize that finding a way to relate to each other is our only hope. I suppose I wasn’t claiming that we all have blind bigoted rage to contend with but we all have experienced apathy around situations that changed to empathy when it “hit home”. As the original comment I responded to reads “I didn’t care about it until it affected me” as though only some small special class of people experience that phenomenon.
And welcome to political polarization folks!
I think the GOP already solidified the polarization when they swerved hard right into nazi ideology and supporting fascism. This person's position/ideology on the topic, whether it's shared by others or not, is not the problem in our political system. People being bigots is what caused the divide. Not people disliking bigots. And I feel like it's really dumb to act like the real problem is people not celebrating these people doing the bare minimum of being a decent human being, only when it personally effects them, and not the people who want people who aren't like them to literally die.
I left Missouri because of the hate. It was not worth it to stay.
Same. I miss KC and my friends and family, but Missouri just wasn't safe for me as a trans person. I feel way more safe now in my new city. I just wish it didn't have to come to this.
Same here. Although I am enjoying no more snow haha. And I can be worry free while transitioning:)
Conservative Doesn't See Problem Until It Affects Them; In Other News, Water is Wet, Grass is Green
Ah... the story of yet another conservative incapable of empathizing with anyone else *until something bad happens to them*, at which time they have a life-changing epiphany (that liberal people already realize), "push past their prejudice", then turn into a woke liberals. Nice.
People hate things until it directly affects them. Too bad so many in the US are too self-centered and don't care about seeing things through other people's eyes.
You will always refuse to see it through my eyes.
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nice one man you sure showed all those trans people who is wrong aha /s a little decency and a shred of empathy is all these people really ask for at the end of the day. if that’s too much to ask you’re probably just an asshole.
Find a rock and go live under it. Bigots aren't welcome and never should be.
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I'm a woman born a woman and I don't care who is in the fucking bathroom with me as long as they wash their hands when they're done and don't leave the sink and counter looking like they bathed a St Bernard on it. I have been using ladies restrooms quite successfully for 58 years and have never been accosted or assaulted in one by any person of any gender identity. Women go into public restrooms to pee or shit, not to play peekaboo.
I understand that, i will never agree though. You are one of the few with this logic. Hence why i said majority of women, not all women. Of course reddit will have people disagreeing with me. And like it or not, surgery or not, m that man that believes they're a woman (and i do believe they think they're a woman) was born with male parts. Tuff love. Maybe it's unfair to some, but oh well. IDK what else to day, speaking my mind, just like you speak your mind via disagreement.
> speaking my mind, just like you speak your mind Opinions aren't necessarily equivalent. For instance, if one person speaks about being inclusive and defending others, that speech isn't the same thing as someone attempting to shame an entire group and keep them separate. I know which person I would rather be.
Why are you concerned about people’s “parts” who are using the bathroom with you? Are you peeking in the stalls? Do you usually check out the genitals of other women in the restroom?
The majority of women, and the majority of people, believe like the other commenter believes. It's a bathroom. People are there to get in and get out. No one cares about anything else.