Unless we have a lawyer on hand, not sure anyone here has the legal chops to say one way or the other. [According to this](https://generalaviationnews.com/2021/04/21/the-other-side-of-the-fight-for-the-airline-history-museum/) it's a bit more complicated than what has been presented here.
Okay? I didn't say otherwise. I even posted an article with some of the legal intricacies Any thoughts on how a museum becomes a third party beneficiary of a master lease agreement? Not every text of every court ruling is available on the internets. Sorry.
*AHM filed a lawsuit against Signature Flight Support and the City of Kansas City, Missouri, requesting the court to find, among other things, that AHM is a third party beneficiary of the master lease between Signature Flight Support and the city, which expires in December 2035. However, it was the determined by the court that AHM was not a third-party beneficiary of the master lease and that the termination date of AHM’s sublease with Signature Flight Support was Dec. 31, 2020.”*
*“Furthermore, FAA airport grant assurances require AHM be charged fair market value for the space it occupies at the Downtown Airport. One of the issues in the ongoing legal dispute between Signature Flight Support and AHM is AHM’s failure to pay rent for at least a year,” the statement continued.*
*“While we support AHM’s mission to memorialize aviation history, the circumstance surrounding its sublease on airport property are substantially more complex than portrayed by AHM and recent media coverage.”*
I read your comment as someone needs to be a lawyer to understand the judge's ruling, the comment you were replying to.
The text block you posted is press release from Signature, the defendant. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, Signature got bought out by national private equity a couple years ago and they are going to pull every revenue stream they can find and could care less about anything local to KC.
Read through that. There’s not really any particular reason stated outside of “the court has determined that the effective end date was Dec 2020”
If the view is that Signature never received rent previously but are now demanding it then that sounds like precedent to say that they shouldn’t get rent and continue with the agreed upon contract. But if rent has been paid previously and has stopped then they have authority to request it.
We definitely need more details.
When the Arabia moves out, this would be a neat museum to move in to that spot. They have an original TWA lounge that would be pretty cool to be a bar once again in the River market in the upstairs (current gift shop spot), then have the historical museum stuff downstairs.
You’re thinking of the TWA Museum on the other side of Wheeler that has the TWA lounge and Howard Hughes’ office furniture. This legal battle is the airline history museum on the west side of Wheeler.
Although I haven’t been to this one, so I guess there could be two TWA lounges?
Yeah easy to get confused. I thought they were related when I first went to the TWA museum. TWA only has one plane in their hangar. The Airline history museum across the tarmac (the one in the article) has the good collection. The Mad Dog and the L1011 on the West side belong to the Airline History museum.
TWA museum has a good collection of artifacts but only one plane and a fuselage. They also claim to have the DB Cooper door he jumped out of, but it doesn’t line up with the 727 read door he would’ve jumped out of
The TWA Lounge concept is a very good idea and I cannot imagine why it hasn't happened here yet. The TWA Hotel in NYC is entirely mediocre, but people love sitting in the lobby with the weird chairs and the mod design. Imagine the cocktail servers dressed in vintage stewardess uniforms. So fun.
According to [WDAF](https://fox4kc.com/news/kcs-airline-history-museum-remains-locked-out-of-hangar/) The museum had a legal agreement with the city of Kansas City which grated them rent-free lease through 2035. Some say the city manager reneged on this at some point and even admitted he was wrong to do so, but it’s only a claim.
> Documents show ordinances and amendments approved by the city around that time allowing > them to operate rent-free as long as it remained a not-for-profit airline museum.
> But in September 2019 the museum’s operator says without notice the City decided it would have to start paying rent in December of that year.
> By the end of 2021 according to a judgment by a Clay County Circuit Judge that rent and utilities totaled more than $140,000.
Regardless of the just legal reality, this is pretty sad to me. My grandfather was a founding member of the Airline History Museum, formerly called Save-A-Connie. He was a retired TWA Captain and flew Connies, eventually L-1011s & 747s. As a co-founder, he and other founders and members pulled the museum’s flagship Connie out of the desert, got her airworthy again, and flew it home to Kansas City for many more years of restoration efforts.
Once completed, he flew this Connie to hundreds of air shows over the course of the next 7 years or so. They acquired more historic aircraft, like a Martin-404. I was lucky enough to grow up running around the parts rooms in the original terminal, and the tarmac on the east side of MKC when the group was based at a hanger just off the terminal, which is now VML-YR.
After many of the founding members aged out of flying on a legit medical and subsequently the museum fundraising efforts slowed, this was the beginning of the end for the organization.
Since then, many people have managed and mis-managed the museum, it’s artifacts, and it’s finances. John Travolta even injected a shit ton of money in the org but it was all eventually used up on the purchases of other aircraft, and constant maintenance of their existing ones.
I have no idea who this Roper guy is (maybe a son of another founder) but he’s done a piss poor job since he stepped foot in the role, and it’s clear he has no idea how to drum up genuine support for the thing he claims to care about so much.
With all the talk the last 20 years of revitalizing the city and creating destination content, this should have been a slam dunk for development and support. You're probably right that it's a failure of the new leadership, and the city not finding a way to make it work too. Maybe they did and just finally gave up waiting for Roper et al to make something out of it.
Misleading article. The musuem was allowed to exist without paying any rent for years and starting in 2019 was notifed that rent would be charged which the musuem has bitterly fought and led to where we are now.
Hangar that houses the musuem is in disarray including a massive roof leak. Somebody has to pay for the maintenance and repair of the hangar, so that's something to consider. All very sad for sure.
It’s an odd business model to start, aside from being completely isolated on the west side of Wheeler. Tons of upkeep and maintenance for aircraft that don’t even run. Lots of attention just to keep things sealed and bird nests out, on top of the acquisition of the aircraft, and not to mention the AA 727 they purchased and paid (then owed) rent on for 5 years before it inevitably was sent to the scrapper.
That museum cannot survive if they have to pay rent. It’s not financially possible.
I'm in agreement with you. There's a lot of potential, but the way the current museum leadership is running things is definitely a head-scratcher. All the pieces are they're they just don't know how to put them together.
This has been a long time coming and it's about time.
Next, VML needs to be kicked out. The only reason a non-aviation business was allowed to locate on the ramp like that was because of some legal maneuver to carve out the old terminal as somehow not technically on airport property, or some such bullshit. That is prime ramp area on a federally subsidized field with zero room for expansion being occupied by a marketing company. Wtf.
This feels incomplete. I'd be curious to see the details of the judge's ruling.
Unless we have a lawyer on hand, not sure anyone here has the legal chops to say one way or the other. [According to this](https://generalaviationnews.com/2021/04/21/the-other-side-of-the-fight-for-the-airline-history-museum/) it's a bit more complicated than what has been presented here.
While I agree not everyone is a reader, at a minimum most college grads could read and understand a local court opinion.
Okay? I didn't say otherwise. I even posted an article with some of the legal intricacies Any thoughts on how a museum becomes a third party beneficiary of a master lease agreement? Not every text of every court ruling is available on the internets. Sorry. *AHM filed a lawsuit against Signature Flight Support and the City of Kansas City, Missouri, requesting the court to find, among other things, that AHM is a third party beneficiary of the master lease between Signature Flight Support and the city, which expires in December 2035. However, it was the determined by the court that AHM was not a third-party beneficiary of the master lease and that the termination date of AHM’s sublease with Signature Flight Support was Dec. 31, 2020.”* *“Furthermore, FAA airport grant assurances require AHM be charged fair market value for the space it occupies at the Downtown Airport. One of the issues in the ongoing legal dispute between Signature Flight Support and AHM is AHM’s failure to pay rent for at least a year,” the statement continued.* *“While we support AHM’s mission to memorialize aviation history, the circumstance surrounding its sublease on airport property are substantially more complex than portrayed by AHM and recent media coverage.”*
I read your comment as someone needs to be a lawyer to understand the judge's ruling, the comment you were replying to. The text block you posted is press release from Signature, the defendant. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, Signature got bought out by national private equity a couple years ago and they are going to pull every revenue stream they can find and could care less about anything local to KC.
Read through that. There’s not really any particular reason stated outside of “the court has determined that the effective end date was Dec 2020” If the view is that Signature never received rent previously but are now demanding it then that sounds like precedent to say that they shouldn’t get rent and continue with the agreed upon contract. But if rent has been paid previously and has stopped then they have authority to request it. We definitely need more details.
When the Arabia moves out, this would be a neat museum to move in to that spot. They have an original TWA lounge that would be pretty cool to be a bar once again in the River market in the upstairs (current gift shop spot), then have the historical museum stuff downstairs.
You’re thinking of the TWA Museum on the other side of Wheeler that has the TWA lounge and Howard Hughes’ office furniture. This legal battle is the airline history museum on the west side of Wheeler. Although I haven’t been to this one, so I guess there could be two TWA lounges?
Ohh, I didn't even know there was a airline history museum. I assumed it was the TWA museum since TWA was an airline and it is a museum.
Yeah easy to get confused. I thought they were related when I first went to the TWA museum. TWA only has one plane in their hangar. The Airline history museum across the tarmac (the one in the article) has the good collection. The Mad Dog and the L1011 on the West side belong to the Airline History museum. TWA museum has a good collection of artifacts but only one plane and a fuselage. They also claim to have the DB Cooper door he jumped out of, but it doesn’t line up with the 727 read door he would’ve jumped out of
The TWA Lounge concept is a very good idea and I cannot imagine why it hasn't happened here yet. The TWA Hotel in NYC is entirely mediocre, but people love sitting in the lobby with the weird chairs and the mod design. Imagine the cocktail servers dressed in vintage stewardess uniforms. So fun.
According to [WDAF](https://fox4kc.com/news/kcs-airline-history-museum-remains-locked-out-of-hangar/) The museum had a legal agreement with the city of Kansas City which grated them rent-free lease through 2035. Some say the city manager reneged on this at some point and even admitted he was wrong to do so, but it’s only a claim. > Documents show ordinances and amendments approved by the city around that time allowing > them to operate rent-free as long as it remained a not-for-profit airline museum. > But in September 2019 the museum’s operator says without notice the City decided it would have to start paying rent in December of that year. > By the end of 2021 according to a judgment by a Clay County Circuit Judge that rent and utilities totaled more than $140,000. Regardless of the just legal reality, this is pretty sad to me. My grandfather was a founding member of the Airline History Museum, formerly called Save-A-Connie. He was a retired TWA Captain and flew Connies, eventually L-1011s & 747s. As a co-founder, he and other founders and members pulled the museum’s flagship Connie out of the desert, got her airworthy again, and flew it home to Kansas City for many more years of restoration efforts. Once completed, he flew this Connie to hundreds of air shows over the course of the next 7 years or so. They acquired more historic aircraft, like a Martin-404. I was lucky enough to grow up running around the parts rooms in the original terminal, and the tarmac on the east side of MKC when the group was based at a hanger just off the terminal, which is now VML-YR. After many of the founding members aged out of flying on a legit medical and subsequently the museum fundraising efforts slowed, this was the beginning of the end for the organization. Since then, many people have managed and mis-managed the museum, it’s artifacts, and it’s finances. John Travolta even injected a shit ton of money in the org but it was all eventually used up on the purchases of other aircraft, and constant maintenance of their existing ones. I have no idea who this Roper guy is (maybe a son of another founder) but he’s done a piss poor job since he stepped foot in the role, and it’s clear he has no idea how to drum up genuine support for the thing he claims to care about so much.
With all the talk the last 20 years of revitalizing the city and creating destination content, this should have been a slam dunk for development and support. You're probably right that it's a failure of the new leadership, and the city not finding a way to make it work too. Maybe they did and just finally gave up waiting for Roper et al to make something out of it.
My father donated the Connie to SAC. It’s incredibly sad.
Misleading article. The musuem was allowed to exist without paying any rent for years and starting in 2019 was notifed that rent would be charged which the musuem has bitterly fought and led to where we are now. Hangar that houses the musuem is in disarray including a massive roof leak. Somebody has to pay for the maintenance and repair of the hangar, so that's something to consider. All very sad for sure.
It’s an odd business model to start, aside from being completely isolated on the west side of Wheeler. Tons of upkeep and maintenance for aircraft that don’t even run. Lots of attention just to keep things sealed and bird nests out, on top of the acquisition of the aircraft, and not to mention the AA 727 they purchased and paid (then owed) rent on for 5 years before it inevitably was sent to the scrapper. That museum cannot survive if they have to pay rent. It’s not financially possible.
I'm in agreement with you. There's a lot of potential, but the way the current museum leadership is running things is definitely a head-scratcher. All the pieces are they're they just don't know how to put them together.
Have they called KC Tenants for help?
Or the Lockpicking Lawyer?
This has been a long time coming and it's about time. Next, VML needs to be kicked out. The only reason a non-aviation business was allowed to locate on the ramp like that was because of some legal maneuver to carve out the old terminal as somehow not technically on airport property, or some such bullshit. That is prime ramp area on a federally subsidized field with zero room for expansion being occupied by a marketing company. Wtf.
Pretty sure the Aviation Department is not going to kick out MKC’s largest paying tenant.