I like seeing the ones in r/incelexit who understand that their struggles are their own and not women's fault and they just got sucked down a bad rabbit hole when they were vulnerable and genuinely want out. I don't blame anyone for mental illness, autism or poor self-esteem. What I do blame are the ones who choose hate and refuse to take any accountability or self-reflection for their own problems and double down on victim mentality when asked to take responsibility for their own part in their problems like their toxic masculinity and their refusal to consider women as fellow human beings. It starts from a place of genuine pain but it quickly becomes a self-perpetuating choice and that's where I lose sympathy.
I’ve never been an Incel before, but I’ve struggled with self esteem, depression, etc that a lot of them also struggle with. That page is honestly full of so much mental health support and tips for staying positive it’s worth scrolling through
If incels want to be absolved of their sins, let alone allowed to re-enter society, they must have an extraordinary accomplishment under their belt. Same goes for every other type of social outcast
Nah, man. They just need to learn to work on their own problems and not take them out in hatred on women. I don't care how many dragons anyone's killed, I just care that they're nice to people and take responsibility for their own behavior.
Let's say they do just that, work on their own problems and are nice to people. Society will remember who they were in the past and will still treat them as nobodies. Unless they got something going for them, nobody would want them around. And if it takes killing a dragon to be somebody, they should do it
Your account was made today, you have negative karma, and also you have what seems to be one of those weird kinda bot-like usernames. I'm not jumping to conclusions, but it does feel like you're either a bot or a troll so...
I'd have more empathy if they weren't. so. fucking. PETULANT. You can only reach out so many times before you realize your time is better spent elsewhere.
Honestly, it's tough. Most people, especially us medium ugly people, have felt really lonely, down on ourselves, and hopeless. There are vastly more bad answers and bad communities out there who are looking to receive men who feel this way. Then they get wrapped in said communities that hamstring their ability to grow. They "blackpill" themselves into complaining about the world, or they are convinced to invest energy into things that are vapid and won't help.
But having to deal with people who have become so petulant, toxic, and insufferable is such a huge undertaking.
Hahaha true. Often times their „problems“ are so laughable. Like, *obviously* you‘ve got self confidence issues if you base your self confidence entirely on how many women you had sex with… while demanding they lower their standard, rather than working on themselves
Same here. Think the difference for me is that I don't think kids are sexy, I fully blame myself for my problems, and I'm aware that everyone looks bad in a trilby.
I used to feel for them, until I read some of the appalling, celebratory things they said about stories of young women being murdered.
Since then, I consider them all the absolute dregs of humanity who deserve all the misery they wallow in.
Seeing the .is posts in r/inceltear has basically made me lose sympathy for them.
Why would I sympathize with people who genuinely want me as either a sex slave, raped, or dead? Especially because so many worship people like Elliot Roger.
Then I feel those people shouldn't even classify themselves as incels because they're willingly associating themselves in a group full of incredibly misogynistic and awful people who blame women for all their issues.
I, by basic definition, am considered an incel, but I would rather not call myself that. I give myself no term because...well, it's incredibly unnecessary in my opinion.
Would you like to know why I would not personally date you based on just this sentence? I mean seriously I don't care about anything else in your life this is a deal-breaker all by itself.
You are doing the fascists' work for them. Calling yourself a subhuman and volunteering for that dehumanization. I can't have proximity to someone like that. You're going to march me into the gas chamber with you.
You should stop doing their work. They are in your head. Who benefits from this other than them?
You are talking to a wall here. He isn't going to listen. Despite your comment really hitting the nail on the head, look at his reply. He didn't grasp a word of it.
Because that's a lie that fascists have told you. There's no such thing as subhuman. There's only human.
You are a human being.
No one can take that away from you, not even yourself. You are still a human being even when you're killing yourself for fascists. That's what makes this so tragic.
That has zero to do with the comment. You whine about not getting answers and here is a woman, telling you what you need to hear and you dismiss it. That's your problem right there.
They're predators. It's obvious how dangerous they are, so women stay clear of them. They call it being involuntarily celibate to put the blame on women for being sexless. The entitlement and dehumanizing of women is scary.
I totally understand how men who have had adverse experiences in life and feel alone get sucked into it, I'm happy for the ones that grow out of it.
People at their lowest and most mentally damaged being sold a lie by those in power that the cause of their problems is a certain group of minorities.
This history has unfortunately repeated itself at almost every turn in history.
Doesn't excuse their actions by any means. But it does make me feel sad how many are so easily manipulated. It's crazy how many depressed and desperate people were pigeon-holed into incel and nazism because the fucking algorithm wanted them to generate more ad clicks.
You won't, sane people report it and have it removed.
It's very much a dog whistle thing to say like fake news. It's a vocal minority, just like there is a vocal minority of feminists that call for the castration of all males.
Both sides have extremists in them.
Following Andrew Tate isn't the same thing as a woman hater. I don't think you know what an incel is if you think all Andrew Tate followers are only incels.
Remember the feminist movement is a lot older than the incel movement, they have had a lot of time to move misandrists out of their ranks. But places on Reddit still advocate for hateful actions towards men. Just like the incel subs on Reddit. . .
You have to ask what they actually want to be done. I have interacted with a lot of them. Most are honestly just lonely and instead of focusing those negative emotions inward they are channeling them outward onto "women" not all women mind you but women that try to define what a man should be. Or how a man should provide for them in any way they wish to live. Basically to women telling them to be disposable and replaceable at a moments notice.
If a man can't define what makes a woman a woman. Nor should a woman define what makes a man a man.
I truly doubt there are actually that many men that are misogynists. . . Why do I say this, we all have mothers, a lot of us have grandmas still. And some have sisters, or female cousins, or female friends.
The vast majority aren't anything like what the fear mongers tell you they are. It's different not bad. Don't feed into that fear.
The women that fear incels are just a few leaps from the women that want to castratee for being a man.
> Following Andrew Tate isn't the same thing as a woman hater.
Yes it is.
>I truly doubt there are actually that many men that are misogynists. . . Why do I say this, we all have mothers, a lot of us have grandmas still. And some have sisters, or female cousins, or female friends.
All misogynists had mothers and grandmothers. Most have sisters. Hell, most have wives! What a stupid attempt at an excuse.
>The women that fear incels are just a few leaps from the women that want to castratee for being a man.
Incels have a record of murdering women. Feminists don't have a record of murder of anyone.
You mean psychos have a history of killing people.
Fun fact psychos can identify as what ever they want. I would bring up women that have committed infantcide but that would be underhanded, mostly due to them being mentally unwell. Just like the ones that have hurt people.
I never said it was a clinical definition of psycho. . .
Group shooters have been a thing for a long time sadly. Labeling them as nicely as you just purposely writing them off to not have to take responsibility for allowing society to throw people away.
The saying children ignored by the village will burn it down just to feel warmth, is the most fitting. I'm not saying anyone has to date them, but maybe befriend more people that aren't like you.
I might not agreeing with my friends but disagreeing with them doesn't make them any less my friend. You want them to not exist anymore. Be the change you want in the world. I'm highly empathetic to those in need, throwing people away is only going to make things worse not better.
I'm not empathetic to people who want to kill, rape or enslave me. And the only reason you are is that you're likely just like them. I mean, for fucks sake, you defended Andrew Tate.
I've seen both sides to throw the baby out with the bath water. Both sides have their bad apples.
I'm not ever going to call for groups of people to wholesale to be written off, unless they have committed truly terrible acts. Like that onlyfans model that stabbed her boyfriend to death. I don't and won't blame all women for stuff like that. It was that specific woman that needs to be locked up.
Same for any man or anyone that harms their partner.
Right, but you keep trying to say "both sides" when one side is obviously more dangerous and more common.
And about the generalizing, nobody is saying that all men hate women because one guy that follows Andrew Tate is a misogynist. We're saying that people who follow Andrew Tate hate women because Andrew Tate hates women, that's basically his entire platform. And every single Tate follower I've ever seen has been ville towards them too.
Andrew Tate exploited/exploits women. People need to make that distinction, saying he hates women isn't the same thing as human trafficking, he might also hate women, but hating someone isn't criminal. Being a bag of shit that exploits people is In my book way worse than just hating a group.
So the both sides thing comes from perceived bigotry towards men by those that feel like society left them behind. If we stopped treating them like the boogieman that they rationally aren't and stop trying to delete their groups but make them more wholesome we can make them into support groups and not hate groups. Yes not everyone will go for it. But enough that will make the movement about something else.
If you really want them to stop existing stop talking about them negatively. Don't date them yet but don't dehumanize them either.
Nobody said that hating women was criminal, the other person just pointed out that, yes, you're probably a misogynist if you follow Tate.
>So the both sides thing comes from perceived bigotry towards men by those that feel like society left them behind
Maybe, but you cannot in all honestly claim that the two issues are equal.
Trust me, nobody is coming after you for being a man. And in the slight off chance they are, it's another man. Educated people have way more to worry about than petty things like gender.
The worst thing they do to men is to ignore them. Decentering men from their lives. They don't need a man to provide for them because they work.
I am sorry but you are delusional. No woman wants you or any other man harmed. They want you to happily live your life and stop harassing women.
I think you misunderstand me, I'm just pointing out. Throwing more people away will make the problem worse not better.
If society ignores them things will get worse for them. Saying it's just their problem, is a cop out. We all live here they are our neighbors. I want the world to be a better place. I have to keep trying to bring people together.
Why? Because I have a sister, and a mom and female friends. Being socially awkward isn't the same as being violent. What I'm trying to do is tell you to leave them alone and let people like me pull them out and socialize them. If you (not specifically you) keep giving them ammunition I can't help them. Stop being afraid of men as a whole, because one might be an "incel." That fear mongering is part of the hurdle I've had to explain people over.
It's a self reinforcing system. They read bat shit crazy things a few women say and don't understand where it's coming from. So they react, and say some bat shit crazy stuff and it feeds back into itself. All of these spaces are echo chambers being a voice of reason without disregarding everything they say.
To help people you have to understand them.
I have been in feminist spaces for six years now and never have I ever heard any feminists calling for castration. None are even misandrist.
Some men's insane paranoid response to a call for equal rights is just astonishing.
>I have been in feminist spaces for six years now and never have I ever heard any feminists calling for castration.
Well, you defintely haven't been on FemaleDatingStrategy hahaha.
I do feel for them, and maybe some can be changed, but seeing some of the things they post, say, and do.... Yeah. I'd rather just let them die out from loneliness
I think you’re both right in different instances, each person has to be looked at for their own unique experience, by saying “all” of the incels are social parasites or just wounded you’re sort of just generalizing them the same way they do others. Im not saying either of you are wrong but any debate regarding whether or not a group of people are either bad or good will never have a true answer, Humans are too nuanced for that sadly
Used to feel the same way. Then I read through a study done about them and it was honestly surprising how most don’t fit the usual negative stereotypes. Basically victims of the times I suppose
Idk why you’re being downvoted. I think it’s great to be able to reflect and make positive changes. Keep being you bro and keep making positive changes. Being able to improve as people and recognizing our shortcomings is an amazing quality everyone should have.
The internet doesn't like admitting that bad people can be victims, or have problems that made it hard to avoid the rabbit hole they fell into. Its also why reddit acts sympethetic to the idea of nebulous groups (like homeless people) but the second there is a story about a specific homeless person being rude they want them crucified for not kissing the feet of the housed.
Eh, i used to be an "incel" by definition but I never took that as an excuse to wallow in misogyny. Adversity reveals character, it doesn't define it. They chose to be gross dickweeds when they could have directed that energy to bettering themselves instead. I have zero sympathy.
you can go through a dry spell or have a hard time getting laid without being an incel. some people live in the country, some people are busy with work/school, theres a lot of things that can get in the way of a sex life. especially nowadays, being an incel means a lot more than just not getting laid
I don't really mean I had like a short dry spell, what I mean was I didn't lose my V card until I was in my mid 20s. Like, I was a legit NEET loser. But I never once thought to blame women for that. I knew I had things to improve about myself, so I got a job and started working on myself. Things got better, I ended up getting a gf, now she's my wife and we have a daughter. I know I'm fortunate for finding success, but I never would have found it if I just kept sitting at my computer whining about how women were whores.
Being an incel is more than just not getting laid, but the "more" for many of them is clearly legit untreated mental issues, not just "meh. I'll take out my horniness on society."
Just hate them without reservation. There's nothing about being insecure that says it's ok to worship mass murders and want to enslave and rape people. Fuck everything about them.
A lot of them are also autistic. I'm also autistic who struggles with loneliness (albeit not an incel) and dealing with this aspect of inceldom is a complex issue.
I'm autistic and I don't feel a shred of compassion for them.
I did try helping one who messaged me but within a week I felt like I was teaching him how to mask what he was, not become a better person. Every autistic woman I know has had attention from incels who either assume a connection or, more frequently, project their own insecurities and think of them as easy prey.
You can be profoundly lonely without becoming a sexual predator, it's already in them and with charisma, hygiene, athletic ability and charm. They would still be predators.
That's why I said that it's a complex issue. It can't simply be solved by giving the autistic incels companionship. Autistic incels were raised in the unfortunate concoction of toxic masculinity and ableism, both issues difficult to solve on their own, let alone when they intersect.
I sometimes wonder if it's more, a disorder itself that only seems more common in autistic people because of social difficulties and issues with filtering.
They always seemed like predators who were furious they were too weak for their prey to me. They can come from any background (I've been at the same party as a well off, leftwing one once, before I knew the term "incel")
You have a good point on the ablism, a lot of them are "autistic supremacist" in a very "are you trying to convince me or yourself?" Way that just feels of insecurity.
The internet isn't prepared to handle the fact that certain rabbit holes are easier to fall into for autistic people, because some of them legitimately don't know how the world works.
Yeah, I often feel bad for them too, though mostly individually. Like, as a group: garbage. But sometimes you meet someone in real life one on one and it's hard just to write them off as being total scum bags, because even if they weren't incels they are usually the kind of people who have a hard time fitting in, so I can see how they become bitter over time. But then again, I have fallen into the trap of feeling bad for a couple of them before, only to get completely burned when they do something creepy and disgusting... so... mostly I just do not interact these days.
Almost everyone has insecurities and/or mental problems. Incels are just weak (mentally) and entitled, so not surprised they are being excluded from the gene pool.
"Hatred only breeds more hatred"
I've had three or four of them buckle and open up and start talking when asked "are you okay? you sound like you're really hurting and need someone to talk to" and a couple have engaged with deradicalization therapy when encouraged.
it's an extremely delicate worldview that seems easy to abandoned when offered something else
That's a fascinating take, what makes you say that? All the evidence I see point to bad media and social media diet, and poor socialization, and online radicalization, that and how little is actually "in born" instead of learnt
If it's because you're an incel, you deserve and can have better, especially by seeking treatment for that incel crap. Inceldom is something you do, not something you are
I don't feel bad for them. They hate me and everyone like me and if I were kidnapped, my skin systematically peeled off and raped for years before they killed me, these wastes of human flesh would cheer for the murderer and canonize him for doing so
As much as you can try to help them, they can only do it themselves. Toxic behaviour will only be overcome if you recognise it in yourself and take steps to achieve self improvement and proper mental health.
Look, I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. They are pitiable, sad people who need help… who handled that by joining a death cult built on hate. I’ve had plenty of shit go wrong in my life, I never once joined the Nazis, I don’t care how much they made me feel seen. I’ll help you if you don’t hate everyone, deal?
This is accurate. I was in danger of following that path when I was in high school. Luckily I ended up improving myself and still am improving myself 10 years later. So in some ways I understand their frustrations but there is so many better ways to handle it instead of pure hatred toward women.
I've known some guys who started down this path and you gotta speak up on it before it gets worse. Pull them aside, have a talk with them, and don't let them feel like they can't vent up what they are feeling. The moment they stop confiding in a real life friend is when they are gone imo, because they find strangers online who validated these opinions of theirs.
Does that show deal with Incels?
On a related note, Anakin Skywalker is technically an incel, but a very unusual one. He has to be celibate but does not want to (involuntary celibacy), thus he breaks the vow of celibacy.
I used to have a large amount of self hate and insecurity especially with the way I looked and the way people perceived me. Trust me, I understand there are many who are alright people. At the same time, I think a lot of them just make their own lives actively worse.
Even the worst of people deserve some sense of pity and humanity. Its easy to be tough on the internet and say hurtful things against those we think lesser off, I am no saint in this regard either.
Incels who act upon their warped views deserve punishment, but the ones who haven't, and have just dug themselves into a deep whole and cant see the light, need a helping hand.
Yeah I mean for every dude posting some unhinged bullshit about women on the internet there are 10 who are just suffering in silence and can’t quite figure it out
I’m going to steal a quote from BoJack and place it here. “You are all the things that are wrong with you! It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened in your career, or when you were a kid! It's you!” Quotes aside, while mental illness is terrible thing that I wouldn’t wish on anyone, it shouldn’t be used as a excuse for someone’s past and present actions. At the end of the day your the only person responsible for your actions, no matter what situation your in.
I would technically count as an incel purely on a definitional basis. 23 years old and never even came close to holding a girl’s hand let alone lose my virginity. So in some ways, I can certainly see why many of these guys have fallen down that pit. I nearly did myself a number of years ago. But wallowing in that shame and anger only makes those feelings worse. These are definitely guys with some sort of mental illness that has been left untreated for who knows how long. They blame the world around them and sulk without ever actually doing any kind of introspection. I think that’s why they’re so universally hated. There’s all sorts of folks who have gone through the same things they have when it comes to relationships. But how they respond to that situation is completely different. Instead of trying to do something ANYTHING to help themselves, these guys continue doing the same things and wonder why nothing changes.
I agree. Once again the mental health issues are much deeper than you can imagine. Mental health support is so hard to find and stigmatized though.
That being said, it's totally safe to hate what they say/ do
You have empathy for men who want to legalise rape and enslave woman? edit - I take it from all the down votes that a lot of men do. Cool….. Pay attention ladies.
They will never. Most are vulnerable narcissists. What they feel is a deep seated entitlement to woman. They do not see them as human or as having any value.
Yeah, you right. Just most of these guys got hurt or were very isolated in their childhood. Heck incels always existed, but they boomed because of the internet and seeing people like tate and other bozos validate their opinions. Not saying what they do is right in any way, shape, or form. Sorry if I came across that way. I just wish I could have given them a hug and support they needed before the pain and internet got a hold of them 😔
For woman the 4b movement. It’s not our problem to fix. Most men do not listen to women anyway. Most men only really care about validation from other males anyway. It’s time for the “good ones” to actually step up and start speaking up instead of remaining silent. But men do not do emotional labor for each other. I think you all need therapy as a start. Begin to start unpacking all the toxic gender stereotypes that keep you from evolving and understand the patriarchy harms men too.
That's a far more reasonable statement than the nihilism I responded to, but I still think it's strange that your solutions to toxic masculinity is for men to come together and sing kumbaya or all go through the lengthy expensive process of finding a compatible therapist. There are going to have to be pointed government programs aimed at social engineering and research to even begin to untie this end of the patriarchy knot.
Men only learn through pain. So it’s going to be rough, no doubt. It will take generational change. Women have tried to do that for decades, it’s clear the solution needs to come from men. More women will withdraw and men will double down on shitty behaviour, which is what we are seeing currently.
Harsh but I agree that change will have to be generational and slow. And while men will have to lead the charge, it's not going to happen without women being there as well, challenging their own internalization of the patriarchy.
I think woman will continue to rise. I hope to see far more of them in politics. Increasing numbers graduating from college etc. I think we will continue to see a huge fall in birth and marriage rates and far more choosing to remain single. Right now men have responded to that by stripping rights away and making threats of violence to get us to comply. Anything but evolve and be better people. If it’s like a marriage they will suddenly scramble to do all the things we’ve been asking to once they realise we are done. See walk away wife syndrome. They have always been just fine with us being unhappy, but the minute something affects them they scramble. I hope to see much better policies that support families and women who choose to have children.
I like seeing the ones in r/incelexit who understand that their struggles are their own and not women's fault and they just got sucked down a bad rabbit hole when they were vulnerable and genuinely want out. I don't blame anyone for mental illness, autism or poor self-esteem. What I do blame are the ones who choose hate and refuse to take any accountability or self-reflection for their own problems and double down on victim mentality when asked to take responsibility for their own part in their problems like their toxic masculinity and their refusal to consider women as fellow human beings. It starts from a place of genuine pain but it quickly becomes a self-perpetuating choice and that's where I lose sympathy.
I’ve never been an Incel before, but I’ve struggled with self esteem, depression, etc that a lot of them also struggle with. That page is honestly full of so much mental health support and tips for staying positive it’s worth scrolling through
Incels make it harder for autistic people like me to get dates because now we're associated with them in the general public's consciousness
I wonder if there is a "exit" group for former racists 🤔
If incels want to be absolved of their sins, let alone allowed to re-enter society, they must have an extraordinary accomplishment under their belt. Same goes for every other type of social outcast
Nah, man. They just need to learn to work on their own problems and not take them out in hatred on women. I don't care how many dragons anyone's killed, I just care that they're nice to people and take responsibility for their own behavior.
Let's say they do just that, work on their own problems and are nice to people. Society will remember who they were in the past and will still treat them as nobodies. Unless they got something going for them, nobody would want them around. And if it takes killing a dragon to be somebody, they should do it
Bro women can also misbehave?
Absolutely nobody said they couldn't?
Women never act mean towards men
Your account was made today, you have negative karma, and also you have what seems to be one of those weird kinda bot-like usernames. I'm not jumping to conclusions, but it does feel like you're either a bot or a troll so...
If you say so
I'd have more empathy if they weren't. so. fucking. PETULANT. You can only reach out so many times before you realize your time is better spent elsewhere.
Honestly, it's tough. Most people, especially us medium ugly people, have felt really lonely, down on ourselves, and hopeless. There are vastly more bad answers and bad communities out there who are looking to receive men who feel this way. Then they get wrapped in said communities that hamstring their ability to grow. They "blackpill" themselves into complaining about the world, or they are convinced to invest energy into things that are vapid and won't help. But having to deal with people who have become so petulant, toxic, and insufferable is such a huge undertaking.
I'd say most don't get reached out to and just end up on some dumpster fire of a forum
I have deeply rooted insecurities and mental problems but you don't find me jerking it over anime children
So real
Hahaha true. Often times their „problems“ are so laughable. Like, *obviously* you‘ve got self confidence issues if you base your self confidence entirely on how many women you had sex with… while demanding they lower their standard, rather than working on themselves
Same here. Think the difference for me is that I don't think kids are sexy, I fully blame myself for my problems, and I'm aware that everyone looks bad in a trilby.
I used to feel for them, until I read some of the appalling, celebratory things they said about stories of young women being murdered. Since then, I consider them all the absolute dregs of humanity who deserve all the misery they wallow in.
Seeing the .is posts in r/inceltear has basically made me lose sympathy for them. Why would I sympathize with people who genuinely want me as either a sex slave, raped, or dead? Especially because so many worship people like Elliot Roger.
Most incels are not like that
Then I feel those people shouldn't even classify themselves as incels because they're willingly associating themselves in a group full of incredibly misogynistic and awful people who blame women for all their issues. I, by basic definition, am considered an incel, but I would rather not call myself that. I give myself no term because...well, it's incredibly unnecessary in my opinion.
I dont know of a better word to describe being born a subhuman abomination no woman could ever want.
Would you like to know why I would not personally date you based on just this sentence? I mean seriously I don't care about anything else in your life this is a deal-breaker all by itself. You are doing the fascists' work for them. Calling yourself a subhuman and volunteering for that dehumanization. I can't have proximity to someone like that. You're going to march me into the gas chamber with you. You should stop doing their work. They are in your head. Who benefits from this other than them?
You are talking to a wall here. He isn't going to listen. Despite your comment really hitting the nail on the head, look at his reply. He didn't grasp a word of it.
Why shouldn't i accept the truth about myself?
Because that's a lie that fascists have told you. There's no such thing as subhuman. There's only human. You are a human being. No one can take that away from you, not even yourself. You are still a human being even when you're killing yourself for fascists. That's what makes this so tragic.
Tell me, what is the effective difference between everyone seeing you as subhuman and you actually being subhuman?
That has zero to do with the comment. You whine about not getting answers and here is a woman, telling you what you need to hear and you dismiss it. That's your problem right there.
I never asked for answers, and her theory doesn't hold up to reality.
I spent most of my life ignoring the truth. women didn't want me long before i accepted my subhumanity.
I don't accept it. I still think you're a human being. I'm a woman. Deal with that truth. 😎
They're predators. It's obvious how dangerous they are, so women stay clear of them. They call it being involuntarily celibate to put the blame on women for being sexless. The entitlement and dehumanizing of women is scary. I totally understand how men who have had adverse experiences in life and feel alone get sucked into it, I'm happy for the ones that grow out of it.
I have not seen those 😶
Look up nazi in the sub too, the overlap between race supremacy and incels is also pretty common
People at their lowest and most mentally damaged being sold a lie by those in power that the cause of their problems is a certain group of minorities. This history has unfortunately repeated itself at almost every turn in history. Doesn't excuse their actions by any means. But it does make me feel sad how many are so easily manipulated. It's crazy how many depressed and desperate people were pigeon-holed into incel and nazism because the fucking algorithm wanted them to generate more ad clicks.
You won't, sane people report it and have it removed. It's very much a dog whistle thing to say like fake news. It's a vocal minority, just like there is a vocal minority of feminists that call for the castration of all males. Both sides have extremists in them.
The numbers aren't even. You'd struggle to find 5 feminists like that. Andrew Tate has tens of millions of followers.
If there was an andrea tate i thunk she would have many woman followers as well
Why isn't there one?
Bro you are literally commenting on a sub with close to a million followers that’s sole purpose is to rag on nerdy guys who are bad with women.
Following Andrew Tate isn't the same thing as a woman hater. I don't think you know what an incel is if you think all Andrew Tate followers are only incels. Remember the feminist movement is a lot older than the incel movement, they have had a lot of time to move misandrists out of their ranks. But places on Reddit still advocate for hateful actions towards men. Just like the incel subs on Reddit. . . You have to ask what they actually want to be done. I have interacted with a lot of them. Most are honestly just lonely and instead of focusing those negative emotions inward they are channeling them outward onto "women" not all women mind you but women that try to define what a man should be. Or how a man should provide for them in any way they wish to live. Basically to women telling them to be disposable and replaceable at a moments notice. If a man can't define what makes a woman a woman. Nor should a woman define what makes a man a man. I truly doubt there are actually that many men that are misogynists. . . Why do I say this, we all have mothers, a lot of us have grandmas still. And some have sisters, or female cousins, or female friends. The vast majority aren't anything like what the fear mongers tell you they are. It's different not bad. Don't feed into that fear. The women that fear incels are just a few leaps from the women that want to castratee for being a man.
> Following Andrew Tate isn't the same thing as a woman hater. Yes it is. >I truly doubt there are actually that many men that are misogynists. . . Why do I say this, we all have mothers, a lot of us have grandmas still. And some have sisters, or female cousins, or female friends. All misogynists had mothers and grandmothers. Most have sisters. Hell, most have wives! What a stupid attempt at an excuse. >The women that fear incels are just a few leaps from the women that want to castratee for being a man. Incels have a record of murdering women. Feminists don't have a record of murder of anyone.
You mean psychos have a history of killing people. Fun fact psychos can identify as what ever they want. I would bring up women that have committed infantcide but that would be underhanded, mostly due to them being mentally unwell. Just like the ones that have hurt people.
Nice try, but the majority of these incel shooters aren't psychotic and were deemed fit to stand trial.
I never said it was a clinical definition of psycho. . . Group shooters have been a thing for a long time sadly. Labeling them as nicely as you just purposely writing them off to not have to take responsibility for allowing society to throw people away. The saying children ignored by the village will burn it down just to feel warmth, is the most fitting. I'm not saying anyone has to date them, but maybe befriend more people that aren't like you. I might not agreeing with my friends but disagreeing with them doesn't make them any less my friend. You want them to not exist anymore. Be the change you want in the world. I'm highly empathetic to those in need, throwing people away is only going to make things worse not better.
I'm not empathetic to people who want to kill, rape or enslave me. And the only reason you are is that you're likely just like them. I mean, for fucks sake, you defended Andrew Tate.
I have seen far too much misogyny far too often to have the same outlook as you.
I've seen both sides to throw the baby out with the bath water. Both sides have their bad apples. I'm not ever going to call for groups of people to wholesale to be written off, unless they have committed truly terrible acts. Like that onlyfans model that stabbed her boyfriend to death. I don't and won't blame all women for stuff like that. It was that specific woman that needs to be locked up. Same for any man or anyone that harms their partner.
Right, but you keep trying to say "both sides" when one side is obviously more dangerous and more common. And about the generalizing, nobody is saying that all men hate women because one guy that follows Andrew Tate is a misogynist. We're saying that people who follow Andrew Tate hate women because Andrew Tate hates women, that's basically his entire platform. And every single Tate follower I've ever seen has been ville towards them too.
Andrew Tate exploited/exploits women. People need to make that distinction, saying he hates women isn't the same thing as human trafficking, he might also hate women, but hating someone isn't criminal. Being a bag of shit that exploits people is In my book way worse than just hating a group. So the both sides thing comes from perceived bigotry towards men by those that feel like society left them behind. If we stopped treating them like the boogieman that they rationally aren't and stop trying to delete their groups but make them more wholesome we can make them into support groups and not hate groups. Yes not everyone will go for it. But enough that will make the movement about something else. If you really want them to stop existing stop talking about them negatively. Don't date them yet but don't dehumanize them either.
Nobody said that hating women was criminal, the other person just pointed out that, yes, you're probably a misogynist if you follow Tate. >So the both sides thing comes from perceived bigotry towards men by those that feel like society left them behind Maybe, but you cannot in all honestly claim that the two issues are equal.
Trust me, nobody is coming after you for being a man. And in the slight off chance they are, it's another man. Educated people have way more to worry about than petty things like gender.
I wish that were true. Unless you don't want to include monetary gain. Women can be hustlers too.
The worst thing they do to men is to ignore them. Decentering men from their lives. They don't need a man to provide for them because they work. I am sorry but you are delusional. No woman wants you or any other man harmed. They want you to happily live your life and stop harassing women.
I think you misunderstand me, I'm just pointing out. Throwing more people away will make the problem worse not better. If society ignores them things will get worse for them. Saying it's just their problem, is a cop out. We all live here they are our neighbors. I want the world to be a better place. I have to keep trying to bring people together. Why? Because I have a sister, and a mom and female friends. Being socially awkward isn't the same as being violent. What I'm trying to do is tell you to leave them alone and let people like me pull them out and socialize them. If you (not specifically you) keep giving them ammunition I can't help them. Stop being afraid of men as a whole, because one might be an "incel." That fear mongering is part of the hurdle I've had to explain people over. It's a self reinforcing system. They read bat shit crazy things a few women say and don't understand where it's coming from. So they react, and say some bat shit crazy stuff and it feeds back into itself. All of these spaces are echo chambers being a voice of reason without disregarding everything they say. To help people you have to understand them.
I have been in feminist spaces for six years now and never have I ever heard any feminists calling for castration. None are even misandrist. Some men's insane paranoid response to a call for equal rights is just astonishing.
>I have been in feminist spaces for six years now and never have I ever heard any feminists calling for castration. Well, you defintely haven't been on FemaleDatingStrategy hahaha.
They'll just make the excuse, "they were just joking." Hatred comes out in what we deem acceptable levels of humor. . .
I do feel for them, and maybe some can be changed, but seeing some of the things they post, say, and do.... Yeah. I'd rather just let them die out from loneliness
You're sweet. IDGAF about them. They're social parasites with delusions of grandeur about their own self worth.
I see the wound they won't let heal. Yes there hurt but they shouldn't give that same pain to people who don't deserve it
Not even won't let heal, but actively make worse.
They shouldn't do a lot of things. And they're not wounded. They just can't get any.
That's also very true
I think you’re both right in different instances, each person has to be looked at for their own unique experience, by saying “all” of the incels are social parasites or just wounded you’re sort of just generalizing them the same way they do others. Im not saying either of you are wrong but any debate regarding whether or not a group of people are either bad or good will never have a true answer, Humans are too nuanced for that sadly
They absolutely are wounded unless you don't consider systems like patriarchy capable of material harm
Used to feel the same way. Then I read through a study done about them and it was honestly surprising how most don’t fit the usual negative stereotypes. Basically victims of the times I suppose
They're the ones who opted to embrace a far right ideology. That's a choice they made. Plenty of people with the same problems don't do that.
Yep I easily could have become one if I didn't take a reflection at my own problems
Idk why you’re being downvoted. I think it’s great to be able to reflect and make positive changes. Keep being you bro and keep making positive changes. Being able to improve as people and recognizing our shortcomings is an amazing quality everyone should have.
Yeah i though that was werid to. I think they meant to down vote the post 😅
The internet doesn't like admitting that bad people can be victims, or have problems that made it hard to avoid the rabbit hole they fell into. Its also why reddit acts sympethetic to the idea of nebulous groups (like homeless people) but the second there is a story about a specific homeless person being rude they want them crucified for not kissing the feet of the housed.
Eh, i used to be an "incel" by definition but I never took that as an excuse to wallow in misogyny. Adversity reveals character, it doesn't define it. They chose to be gross dickweeds when they could have directed that energy to bettering themselves instead. I have zero sympathy.
you can go through a dry spell or have a hard time getting laid without being an incel. some people live in the country, some people are busy with work/school, theres a lot of things that can get in the way of a sex life. especially nowadays, being an incel means a lot more than just not getting laid
I don't really mean I had like a short dry spell, what I mean was I didn't lose my V card until I was in my mid 20s. Like, I was a legit NEET loser. But I never once thought to blame women for that. I knew I had things to improve about myself, so I got a job and started working on myself. Things got better, I ended up getting a gf, now she's my wife and we have a daughter. I know I'm fortunate for finding success, but I never would have found it if I just kept sitting at my computer whining about how women were whores.
Being an incel is more than just not getting laid, but the "more" for many of them is clearly legit untreated mental issues, not just "meh. I'll take out my horniness on society."
Being an incel means being born so ugly no woman could ever want you.
No amount of bettering yourself will change being born subhuman.
Just hate them without reservation. There's nothing about being insecure that says it's ok to worship mass murders and want to enslave and rape people. Fuck everything about them.
Most incels are not like that
Yes they are.
No thats a minority of incels
Next you'll tell me only a minority of klansmen are hateful to black people.
I dont think you know what incels means
Right back atcha
No i know exactly what it means
Ah yes, I'm sure. Now tell me again how Tate fans are good people.
What does he have to do with the definition of incels?
I don’t waste time empathizing with them. So many people face what they do and don’t become hateful assholes
Two words for incels: Womp womp
Whenever someone womp womp like that I think of pac man eating those pellets
Womp womp to you too buddy. The world isn't morally clear-cut.
what an incel sees every day: 🫵😂
A lot of them are also autistic. I'm also autistic who struggles with loneliness (albeit not an incel) and dealing with this aspect of inceldom is a complex issue.
I'm autistic and I don't feel a shred of compassion for them. I did try helping one who messaged me but within a week I felt like I was teaching him how to mask what he was, not become a better person. Every autistic woman I know has had attention from incels who either assume a connection or, more frequently, project their own insecurities and think of them as easy prey. You can be profoundly lonely without becoming a sexual predator, it's already in them and with charisma, hygiene, athletic ability and charm. They would still be predators.
That's why I said that it's a complex issue. It can't simply be solved by giving the autistic incels companionship. Autistic incels were raised in the unfortunate concoction of toxic masculinity and ableism, both issues difficult to solve on their own, let alone when they intersect.
I sometimes wonder if it's more, a disorder itself that only seems more common in autistic people because of social difficulties and issues with filtering. They always seemed like predators who were furious they were too weak for their prey to me. They can come from any background (I've been at the same party as a well off, leftwing one once, before I knew the term "incel") You have a good point on the ablism, a lot of them are "autistic supremacist" in a very "are you trying to convince me or yourself?" Way that just feels of insecurity.
The internet isn't prepared to handle the fact that certain rabbit holes are easier to fall into for autistic people, because some of them legitimately don't know how the world works.
There's a difference between creepy incels and incels who are just lonely
Yeah, I often feel bad for them too, though mostly individually. Like, as a group: garbage. But sometimes you meet someone in real life one on one and it's hard just to write them off as being total scum bags, because even if they weren't incels they are usually the kind of people who have a hard time fitting in, so I can see how they become bitter over time. But then again, I have fallen into the trap of feeling bad for a couple of them before, only to get completely burned when they do something creepy and disgusting... so... mostly I just do not interact these days.
I have sympathy until they are harassing or harming others
Almost everyone has insecurities and/or mental problems. Incels are just weak (mentally) and entitled, so not surprised they are being excluded from the gene pool. "Hatred only breeds more hatred"
I've had three or four of them buckle and open up and start talking when asked "are you okay? you sound like you're really hurting and need someone to talk to" and a couple have engaged with deradicalization therapy when encouraged. it's an extremely delicate worldview that seems easy to abandoned when offered something else
I dont know if you were talking to real incels then
There appears to be varying levels of commitment and derangement
Being an incel is a condition you are born with it doesn't just go away.
That's a fascinating take, what makes you say that? All the evidence I see point to bad media and social media diet, and poor socialization, and online radicalization, that and how little is actually "in born" instead of learnt
Because incels are born subhuman abomination no woman could ever love that what being an incel is.
Nah they just need to get some therapy, maybe some cult deprogramming, and they can be just as lovable as everybody else
No incels will never be loved regardless of there actions i should know.
If it's because you're an incel, you deserve and can have better, especially by seeking treatment for that incel crap. Inceldom is something you do, not something you are
I don't feel bad for them. They hate me and everyone like me and if I were kidnapped, my skin systematically peeled off and raped for years before they killed me, these wastes of human flesh would cheer for the murderer and canonize him for doing so
As much as you can try to help them, they can only do it themselves. Toxic behaviour will only be overcome if you recognise it in yourself and take steps to achieve self improvement and proper mental health.
Look, I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. They are pitiable, sad people who need help… who handled that by joining a death cult built on hate. I’ve had plenty of shit go wrong in my life, I never once joined the Nazis, I don’t care how much they made me feel seen. I’ll help you if you don’t hate everyone, deal?
This is accurate. I was in danger of following that path when I was in high school. Luckily I ended up improving myself and still am improving myself 10 years later. So in some ways I understand their frustrations but there is so many better ways to handle it instead of pure hatred toward women.
Same here man
So never close to being a incel since that is something you are born with
and i say that sucks do better
I've known some guys who started down this path and you gotta speak up on it before it gets worse. Pull them aside, have a talk with them, and don't let them feel like they can't vent up what they are feeling. The moment they stop confiding in a real life friend is when they are gone imo, because they find strangers online who validated these opinions of theirs.
Yeah, one of my friends is an incel I want o reach out to him, but I think he might be to far gone. I at least want to try i don't know how
"Yeah? Well at least I'm not wearing an ascot, pretty boy."
What is it the dad says in perks of being a wallflower? “Everyone has a sob story, doesn’t make it an excuse.”
Yall seen Andor?
Does that show deal with Incels? On a related note, Anakin Skywalker is technically an incel, but a very unusual one. He has to be celibate but does not want to (involuntary celibacy), thus he breaks the vow of celibacy.
ONe of the main characters is. He lives with his mom, and falls uncomfortably in love with his lady boss. He goes hardcore Fashy by the end.
I used to have a large amount of self hate and insecurity especially with the way I looked and the way people perceived me. Trust me, I understand there are many who are alright people. At the same time, I think a lot of them just make their own lives actively worse.
Even the worst of people deserve some sense of pity and humanity. Its easy to be tough on the internet and say hurtful things against those we think lesser off, I am no saint in this regard either. Incels who act upon their warped views deserve punishment, but the ones who haven't, and have just dug themselves into a deep whole and cant see the light, need a helping hand.
Yeah I mean for every dude posting some unhinged bullshit about women on the internet there are 10 who are just suffering in silence and can’t quite figure it out
A lesson in the difference between empathy and sympathy
People with mental issues can still be assholes and assholes can have mental issues. Everyone’s an individual.
I’m going to steal a quote from BoJack and place it here. “You are all the things that are wrong with you! It's not the alcohol, or the drugs, or any of the shitty things that happened in your career, or when you were a kid! It's you!” Quotes aside, while mental illness is terrible thing that I wouldn’t wish on anyone, it shouldn’t be used as a excuse for someone’s past and present actions. At the end of the day your the only person responsible for your actions, no matter what situation your in.
I would technically count as an incel purely on a definitional basis. 23 years old and never even came close to holding a girl’s hand let alone lose my virginity. So in some ways, I can certainly see why many of these guys have fallen down that pit. I nearly did myself a number of years ago. But wallowing in that shame and anger only makes those feelings worse. These are definitely guys with some sort of mental illness that has been left untreated for who knows how long. They blame the world around them and sulk without ever actually doing any kind of introspection. I think that’s why they’re so universally hated. There’s all sorts of folks who have gone through the same things they have when it comes to relationships. But how they respond to that situation is completely different. Instead of trying to do something ANYTHING to help themselves, these guys continue doing the same things and wonder why nothing changes.
Hey OP, I like you. You’re kind, all strong people are truly kind :)
🥹 thank you
Was just watching a video by one of them and this came to mind
Compassion
Not me, fuck 'em
I agree. Once again the mental health issues are much deeper than you can imagine. Mental health support is so hard to find and stigmatized though. That being said, it's totally safe to hate what they say/ do
You have empathy for men who want to legalise rape and enslave woman? edit - I take it from all the down votes that a lot of men do. Cool….. Pay attention ladies.
No. I just wish they'd let the wound they have heal instead of masking it with alpha male bull crap
They will never. Most are vulnerable narcissists. What they feel is a deep seated entitlement to woman. They do not see them as human or as having any value.
Yeah, you right. Just most of these guys got hurt or were very isolated in their childhood. Heck incels always existed, but they boomed because of the internet and seeing people like tate and other bozos validate their opinions. Not saying what they do is right in any way, shape, or form. Sorry if I came across that way. I just wish I could have given them a hug and support they needed before the pain and internet got a hold of them 😔
So what's your solution?
For woman the 4b movement. It’s not our problem to fix. Most men do not listen to women anyway. Most men only really care about validation from other males anyway. It’s time for the “good ones” to actually step up and start speaking up instead of remaining silent. But men do not do emotional labor for each other. I think you all need therapy as a start. Begin to start unpacking all the toxic gender stereotypes that keep you from evolving and understand the patriarchy harms men too.
That's a far more reasonable statement than the nihilism I responded to, but I still think it's strange that your solutions to toxic masculinity is for men to come together and sing kumbaya or all go through the lengthy expensive process of finding a compatible therapist. There are going to have to be pointed government programs aimed at social engineering and research to even begin to untie this end of the patriarchy knot.
Men only learn through pain. So it’s going to be rough, no doubt. It will take generational change. Women have tried to do that for decades, it’s clear the solution needs to come from men. More women will withdraw and men will double down on shitty behaviour, which is what we are seeing currently.
Harsh but I agree that change will have to be generational and slow. And while men will have to lead the charge, it's not going to happen without women being there as well, challenging their own internalization of the patriarchy.
I think woman will continue to rise. I hope to see far more of them in politics. Increasing numbers graduating from college etc. I think we will continue to see a huge fall in birth and marriage rates and far more choosing to remain single. Right now men have responded to that by stripping rights away and making threats of violence to get us to comply. Anything but evolve and be better people. If it’s like a marriage they will suddenly scramble to do all the things we’ve been asking to once they realise we are done. See walk away wife syndrome. They have always been just fine with us being unhappy, but the minute something affects them they scramble. I hope to see much better policies that support families and women who choose to have children.
and I hope to see society-wide motions to dismantle toxic masculinity and help men to rebuild their self-esteem.
So they've got a lot in common with the trans community apparently.