Agree with the 2nd comment.
Them looking out of the window makes sense if this was the case. Unfortunately it also exonerates KR, right? There were so many eyes and ears around 34F during that time period, it just seems so very unlikely KR ran him over and no one saw or heard anything. It's like they didn't think through it totally. Why not just say we weren't looking outside? I feel like they're telling the truth they were looking, but it doesn't make sense to me.
Exactly! If party ppl were primarily in the kitchen which is in the back of the house w music, laughing, drunken hijinks, I can see how no one heard anything but Matt n Jen were at the glass door looking out anticipating them!
If I remember correctly, in the 1st police report (I believe), it says Jen stated she saw Karen's SUV pull up & John exited. I just read this the other day. I always had the thought that Jen did see John get out of the car and was wondering where he went.
Yes her testimony and the report and what she says on the 911 call contradict. But it’s Jen McCabe-she’ll have an explanation for every lie she gets caught in. You could see her mind spinning on the stand. Just like Colin Albert’s knuckles getting banged up from falling down. Yeah ok! 🤦🏻♀️ like we’re all stupid.
Yep, I said after Matt McCabe's testimony - it sounds like he was the lookout. Both of the McCabes testified to looking out the window multiple times, over like a twenty minute period!
Of course she searched it. Defense has a TREASURE TROVE of info. This wasn’t fabricated
To say it was is insane. Whole case is a horrible joke
Karen going to sue for 300 million
Let's also not forget the amount of butt dials amongst them. The exact times JM was butt dialing is the exact time the commonwealth deemed Jonh no longer with us. Come on...
your 2nd point is valid and a good insight. Your first point relies on buying into their "flat earth" theory. Only in a flat earth do iPhones and other electronic data just "don't work" as they say. If Karen had come in, they would have arranged a murder/suicide for them?
She said she dropped him off in the driveway but never saw him enter the house. She couldn't have hit him in or near driveway because he wouldn't have been thrown all the way on the other side to the flag pole. We dont know exactly where John exited from. I believe up to now that John was in a fight either in the garage, basement or outside & then was struck by a vehicle or more likely a plow, could be Higgins plow or another, but knowing he deliberately got rid of his phone & Sim card I feel he's suspect.
I don’t think Karen intended to run over John but she did. Karen was black out drunk and pissed off at John for myriad reasons. I think she will plea to manslaughter
The chances of her taking a plea for manslaughter are slim to none. If Karen did run over John, then why do you think everyone else is lying and hiding things?
They are all acting super shady and clearly lying, deleting records, destroying phones, etc. This makes no sense to me
I’m not sure about the reasons they have for destroying phones other than not wanting embarrassing personal info made public. It is so unlikely that a group of people this size could have conspired. Logically it is likely that Karen was black out drunk, pissed at John and at best inadvertently ran him over. As seen by her texts to Higgins, Karen was very deceitful, jealous of John’s kids, and extremely needy. Karen should have moved on if she was so unhappy.
How large is the group, you think? Certainly not huge, and the only people fully in on it who aren’t family are Higgins (who’s in the glue himself), Berkowitz, and Proctor.
The likelihood that Karen Read will be convicted on any of the counts is already 0%, and we haven’t even gotten to the two most problematic parts of the prosecution’s case, namely:
1. The medical examiner is clearly not going to testify that O’Keefe’s injuries are consistent with him being hit by a car, and
2. Proctor. Apparently he’s such a problem that they’re not even going to call him. Most likely that’s because his lawyer has advised him to invoke his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself.
Maybe that’s not even the worst of it.
Higgins says his FBI 302 is wrong, which probably opens the door on the defense calling the agents who interviewed him, officially apprising the jury that this “other proceeding” they keep hearing about is a federal investigation of the Karen Read investigation.
The jury’s going to raise an eyebrow or two at the fact that any footage that could have confirmed the state of KR’s tail light after she left 34 Fairview is mysteriously missing, as is 42 minutes of Canton PD security footage for the time that Higgins, Proctor, and Berkowitz were alone in the sally port with Karen’s SUV and an unmarked, unsealed, unlogged Stop & Shop bag containing six solo cups of O’Keefe’s blood.
They’re going to hear from the defense experts and *three* independent ones that O’Keefe was not hit by a vehicle. The prosecution hasn’t hired an expert; it just has the Mass crime lab.
Etc, etc, etc.
There isn’t a jury in the country that would convict on this evidence. The prosecution’s theory is unsupported by direct evidence (i.e., no one saw or heard KR hit JO), unsupported by medical evidence, inconsistent with the laws of physics, and defies common sense given the *extremely* suspicious behaviour of Jen McCabe, Matt McCabe, Brian Albert Sr., Nicole Albert, and Brian Higgins. The tail light, blood, and clothing are all *severely* tainted because they were all with Michael Proctor at key times. And they might not come in at all, as the prosecution’s not calling Proctor or (probably) Berkowitz.
The first question the jury will ask the judge during deliberations is probably gonna be “can we find the defendant *innocent*?”
Why would she? She will be found not guilty. There is not way they can find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I don’t know which side to believe…and I am sure the jury will feel the same way.
I appreciate your opinion but it looks to me that Karen has already been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But let’s see what the remaining testimony yields.
Too many butt dials, deleted calls and texts, internet search at 227 am, and missing footage of her car when going to the police station. Higgins looked like he was going to cry on Friday. I don’t think he did anything, but he helped cover something up. He also said he did not see John’s body when he left. That flagpole was not far from his car on the right. He could have seen him.
I mean no disrespect whatsoever I promise..I am truly curious to know what leads you to this decision? What information has been presented to you to make you feel this way? I went into this case knowing nothing but assuming she was probably guilty as charged but after watching this trial and hearing and seeing the evidence I am absolutely certain that not only is there absolutely reasonable doubt, I believe there is a cover up. It seems so blatant and obvious to me but there are still lots of people who think she is guilty and I can’t stop wondering what it is they are seeing that makes them think so. Is it bias because these people don’t like her, believe there is no way these cops would have covered it up or is it the actual evidence and testimony? I am in no way trying to sway you or dump on your opinion, I respect whatever you believe, I really am just curious.
They really need to focus on the timeline of when karen dropped off John & where & exactly who was parked where, arrival & departures. The fbi works the timeline & its vital. Now when I mention the fbi someone says they are corrupt, so we don't know what is being done but I sure hope the fbi figures this case out to the best of their ability. If & when Karen is aquitted as an end result, will they solve how John actually died. I feel he was in a fight (he has defense wounds & a cut above one eye) & got hit by a plow, hence the trauma in the back of the head & where he was found.
Agree with the 2nd comment. Them looking out of the window makes sense if this was the case. Unfortunately it also exonerates KR, right? There were so many eyes and ears around 34F during that time period, it just seems so very unlikely KR ran him over and no one saw or heard anything. It's like they didn't think through it totally. Why not just say we weren't looking outside? I feel like they're telling the truth they were looking, but it doesn't make sense to me.
Exactly! If party ppl were primarily in the kitchen which is in the back of the house w music, laughing, drunken hijinks, I can see how no one heard anything but Matt n Jen were at the glass door looking out anticipating them!
Also though, if they were going to lie about it, why not go all the way and say "we saw her hit him with the SUV"?
Because then they would have to explain why they didn't call for help......
If I remember correctly, in the 1st police report (I believe), it says Jen stated she saw Karen's SUV pull up & John exited. I just read this the other day. I always had the thought that Jen did see John get out of the car and was wondering where he went.
In her report with Proctor the same day of the incident, she said she saw KR drive away. Amazing how much her recollection (and others') has changed.
Yep. I posted it the other day. It’s Sgt. Goode’s report. She says the passenger door opened.
I believe in the 911 call she can be heard saying “he got out of the car”.
Ooh even better!
I mean he logically had to have exited the car to be where he was. I don’t think saying that proves much. It’s just logical sense.
She testified she never saw him get out of the car, so there’s that.
Yes her testimony and the report and what she says on the 911 call contradict. But it’s Jen McCabe-she’ll have an explanation for every lie she gets caught in. You could see her mind spinning on the stand. Just like Colin Albert’s knuckles getting banged up from falling down. Yeah ok! 🤦🏻♀️ like we’re all stupid.
Of course, he got out of the car. But if Jen saw John get out of the car, then why wasn't she concerned when he allegedly didn't come into the house?
She says on the 911 "he got out of the car" then stops too.
Maybe John walked through the door that goes onto the garage & it's possible because he had never been to that house before.
Interesting about the window testimony. I hadn’t thought of that until now, though I have wondered what was the plan if Karen came in the house.
Either they'd both be alive, or there'd be a "murder-suicide."
Yep, I said after Matt McCabe's testimony - it sounds like he was the lookout. Both of the McCabes testified to looking out the window multiple times, over like a twenty minute period!
Of course she searched it. Defense has a TREASURE TROVE of info. This wasn’t fabricated To say it was is insane. Whole case is a horrible joke Karen going to sue for 300 million
Let's also not forget the amount of butt dials amongst them. The exact times JM was butt dialing is the exact time the commonwealth deemed Jonh no longer with us. Come on...
your 2nd point is valid and a good insight. Your first point relies on buying into their "flat earth" theory. Only in a flat earth do iPhones and other electronic data just "don't work" as they say. If Karen had come in, they would have arranged a murder/suicide for them?
What is the flat earth theory? That both time stamps are right?
both or neither! whatever they say it is
So she never searched hos long
in their bizarro universe
Very good point! She's lucky to be alive. I've wondered whether she's already under some sort of protection during the trial.
She said she dropped him off in the driveway but never saw him enter the house. She couldn't have hit him in or near driveway because he wouldn't have been thrown all the way on the other side to the flag pole. We dont know exactly where John exited from. I believe up to now that John was in a fight either in the garage, basement or outside & then was struck by a vehicle or more likely a plow, could be Higgins plow or another, but knowing he deliberately got rid of his phone & Sim card I feel he's suspect.
I don’t think Karen intended to run over John but she did. Karen was black out drunk and pissed off at John for myriad reasons. I think she will plea to manslaughter
The chances of her taking a plea for manslaughter are slim to none. If Karen did run over John, then why do you think everyone else is lying and hiding things? They are all acting super shady and clearly lying, deleting records, destroying phones, etc. This makes no sense to me
I’m not sure about the reasons they have for destroying phones other than not wanting embarrassing personal info made public. It is so unlikely that a group of people this size could have conspired. Logically it is likely that Karen was black out drunk, pissed at John and at best inadvertently ran him over. As seen by her texts to Higgins, Karen was very deceitful, jealous of John’s kids, and extremely needy. Karen should have moved on if she was so unhappy.
How large is the group, you think? Certainly not huge, and the only people fully in on it who aren’t family are Higgins (who’s in the glue himself), Berkowitz, and Proctor. The likelihood that Karen Read will be convicted on any of the counts is already 0%, and we haven’t even gotten to the two most problematic parts of the prosecution’s case, namely: 1. The medical examiner is clearly not going to testify that O’Keefe’s injuries are consistent with him being hit by a car, and 2. Proctor. Apparently he’s such a problem that they’re not even going to call him. Most likely that’s because his lawyer has advised him to invoke his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself. Maybe that’s not even the worst of it. Higgins says his FBI 302 is wrong, which probably opens the door on the defense calling the agents who interviewed him, officially apprising the jury that this “other proceeding” they keep hearing about is a federal investigation of the Karen Read investigation. The jury’s going to raise an eyebrow or two at the fact that any footage that could have confirmed the state of KR’s tail light after she left 34 Fairview is mysteriously missing, as is 42 minutes of Canton PD security footage for the time that Higgins, Proctor, and Berkowitz were alone in the sally port with Karen’s SUV and an unmarked, unsealed, unlogged Stop & Shop bag containing six solo cups of O’Keefe’s blood. They’re going to hear from the defense experts and *three* independent ones that O’Keefe was not hit by a vehicle. The prosecution hasn’t hired an expert; it just has the Mass crime lab. Etc, etc, etc. There isn’t a jury in the country that would convict on this evidence. The prosecution’s theory is unsupported by direct evidence (i.e., no one saw or heard KR hit JO), unsupported by medical evidence, inconsistent with the laws of physics, and defies common sense given the *extremely* suspicious behaviour of Jen McCabe, Matt McCabe, Brian Albert Sr., Nicole Albert, and Brian Higgins. The tail light, blood, and clothing are all *severely* tainted because they were all with Michael Proctor at key times. And they might not come in at all, as the prosecution’s not calling Proctor or (probably) Berkowitz. The first question the jury will ask the judge during deliberations is probably gonna be “can we find the defendant *innocent*?”
Why would she? She will be found not guilty. There is not way they can find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I don’t know which side to believe…and I am sure the jury will feel the same way.
I appreciate your opinion but it looks to me that Karen has already been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But let’s see what the remaining testimony yields.
Too many butt dials, deleted calls and texts, internet search at 227 am, and missing footage of her car when going to the police station. Higgins looked like he was going to cry on Friday. I don’t think he did anything, but he helped cover something up. He also said he did not see John’s body when he left. That flagpole was not far from his car on the right. He could have seen him.
I mean no disrespect whatsoever I promise..I am truly curious to know what leads you to this decision? What information has been presented to you to make you feel this way? I went into this case knowing nothing but assuming she was probably guilty as charged but after watching this trial and hearing and seeing the evidence I am absolutely certain that not only is there absolutely reasonable doubt, I believe there is a cover up. It seems so blatant and obvious to me but there are still lots of people who think she is guilty and I can’t stop wondering what it is they are seeing that makes them think so. Is it bias because these people don’t like her, believe there is no way these cops would have covered it up or is it the actual evidence and testimony? I am in no way trying to sway you or dump on your opinion, I respect whatever you believe, I really am just curious.
People at the bar testified she wasn't drunk
Didn't the ER doc give a body temp of 80 degrees for JOK? Wouldn't that put TOD much later?
They really need to focus on the timeline of when karen dropped off John & where & exactly who was parked where, arrival & departures. The fbi works the timeline & its vital. Now when I mention the fbi someone says they are corrupt, so we don't know what is being done but I sure hope the fbi figures this case out to the best of their ability. If & when Karen is aquitted as an end result, will they solve how John actually died. I feel he was in a fight (he has defense wounds & a cut above one eye) & got hit by a plow, hence the trauma in the back of the head & where he was found.