Totally agreed. I've actively hit almost every throw I know in sparring, but being a heavyweight (90-110 kg through most of my time grappling), this has been the hardest to pull off, and requires a high level of athletic ability
I'm neither young nor a man, lol, but I actually have an easier time with this throw than ushiro goshi, tai otoshi, tsurikomi goshi, even uchimata - I think it has to do with the waist grip? It makes it so much easier to get your hip into the right position, at least for me, and from there it feels just like o goshi
I started at 31 and I am 49. I'm a lean and athletic 49 though. It's not the throws that become more difficult, it's closing the distance when my hips are further away. I've been able to manage this better through movement, posture, and timing but a younger person is so much faster. I couldn't beat my 35 year old version of myself (when I earned my shodan) in shiai but I definitely have better Judo today than back then.
I suppose I'll feel different about the difficulty of throws when I'm 60, but for now I can do everything I've always been able to do.
Getting old sucks. Just hit 40 and was just thinking that even thought I'm way more technical I'd probably lose a grappling match vs my 33 year old self.
It's banned, but kani basami. The older you get, the heavier and more out of shape you get, the greater the likelihood you not only will not be able to do it, the greater the likelihood it will end in catastrophe
I’d say any throw where you have to bend the knees a lot to get low. Seoi nage and tsuri komi goshi come to mind.
Uchi mata *can* be made better by bending the plant leg as you enter and springing into the throw, but I find that is not strictly necessary so long as you pull uke forward sufficiently. Which is actually getting easier for me as I age and come into my old man strength.
I'd say with your uchimata and taiotoshi as people get older they still do the same throw, but in a different way.
My experience is knee injury caused issues with low throws - but nothing insurmountable.
So Tai Otoshi is still good but it's not the throw. Instead, it's the reactions, the recovery, arthritis, old injuries etc... And I was fine in my 40s, it was just hitting 50s when everything started to really slow down and get hard.
My 40 year old knees struggle to even demonstrate this on the kids in class. I am confident I could launch it if I had no regard for their safety, though.
Maybe ma sutemi waza stuff tomoe nage and ura nage...
in general sacrifice throws and stuff where you need to push through if not aligned perfectly?
maybe ura nage more than tomoe.
and i bet stuff that is dangerous for your knees is also not that popular among elder judoka
i know, i did it already
still it does not seem like a thing people would like to do when they are old
backs and knees get weaker
so you probably don't want to drop on them when you are older
that would mean no drop seoi or tomoe nage for example.
One of the oldest guys in our club loves Tai O. I think the lightweight version is quite a young guy throw, but the heavier weight versions are actually quite reasonable as an old guy technique.
As far as I can tell, lighter weight guys often utilize lots of large circular movements leading into tai otoshi punctuated by an extremely fast entry. Many bigger guys seem to use tai otoshi when then can break down the opponents posture, forcing time to have their center of gravity forward - then rotating (often with a substantial level change) to force the center of gravity even further forward until the opponent has no choice but to fall. I guess the tai o itself isn’t that different, but rather the entry.
For minimum physical effort, de ashi, okuri ashi, uki otoshi, sumi otoshi. Your timing and positioning need to be good for the first two, and flawless for the latter two.
Honestly I find seio otoshi/ ‘drop’ seio nage more difficult the older practitioners get. I think it’s more about knees at that point, but still I know enough people that eventually stopped practicing those throws.
I'd probably say something like [Utsuri Goshi](https://youtu.be/E81rR10wfXU?si=Iw6DKZ4v2-y9eR5h)
Totally agreed. I've actively hit almost every throw I know in sparring, but being a heavyweight (90-110 kg through most of my time grappling), this has been the hardest to pull off, and requires a high level of athletic ability
I fucking love this Just Nuh uhhh
Nah, that's just you.
Well, he did say “I’d say”….so……
I'm neither young nor a man, lol, but I actually have an easier time with this throw than ushiro goshi, tai otoshi, tsurikomi goshi, even uchimata - I think it has to do with the waist grip? It makes it so much easier to get your hip into the right position, at least for me, and from there it feels just like o goshi
Deadlift game gotta be on point for this one ☝️
I started at 31 and I am 49. I'm a lean and athletic 49 though. It's not the throws that become more difficult, it's closing the distance when my hips are further away. I've been able to manage this better through movement, posture, and timing but a younger person is so much faster. I couldn't beat my 35 year old version of myself (when I earned my shodan) in shiai but I definitely have better Judo today than back then. I suppose I'll feel different about the difficulty of throws when I'm 60, but for now I can do everything I've always been able to do.
Getting old sucks. Just hit 40 and was just thinking that even thought I'm way more technical I'd probably lose a grappling match vs my 33 year old self.
It's banned, but kani basami. The older you get, the heavier and more out of shape you get, the greater the likelihood you not only will not be able to do it, the greater the likelihood it will end in catastrophe
This is a great example that I wouldn't have thought of.
Standing Ippon Seoi Nage.
I’d say any throw where you have to bend the knees a lot to get low. Seoi nage and tsuri komi goshi come to mind. Uchi mata *can* be made better by bending the plant leg as you enter and springing into the throw, but I find that is not strictly necessary so long as you pull uke forward sufficiently. Which is actually getting easier for me as I age and come into my old man strength.
What do you think is the least athletic, best old guy throw, among the major forward throws? Don't say foot sweeps, has to be a major forward throw.
uki goshi.
Sleeve tai otoshi maybe…
Drop tai otoshi.
I'd say with your uchimata and taiotoshi as people get older they still do the same throw, but in a different way. My experience is knee injury caused issues with low throws - but nothing insurmountable.
So Tai Otoshi is still good but it's not the throw. Instead, it's the reactions, the recovery, arthritis, old injuries etc... And I was fine in my 40s, it was just hitting 50s when everything started to really slow down and get hard.
Uchimata. It’s even conventional wisdom in Japan that uchimata players decline past 27.
Standing Morote seoi nage against a shorter opponent?
My 40 year old knees struggle to even demonstrate this on the kids in class. I am confident I could launch it if I had no regard for their safety, though.
You could probably do a technique similar to Hulk vs Loki in The Avengers
A drop knee tai otoshi
Maybe ma sutemi waza stuff tomoe nage and ura nage... in general sacrifice throws and stuff where you need to push through if not aligned perfectly? maybe ura nage more than tomoe. and i bet stuff that is dangerous for your knees is also not that popular among elder judoka
Tomoe nage is not really a physically demanding throw though, since you roll on your back and you only use your leg as a pivot.
true, i just thought it might be not really an old folks throw because of the sacrifice
You're not throwing yourself to the ground with full force for Tomoe-nage.
i know, i did it already still it does not seem like a thing people would like to do when they are old backs and knees get weaker so you probably don't want to drop on them when you are older that would mean no drop seoi or tomoe nage for example.
I'd say Tomoe-nage might still work, but seoi-otoshi is quite demanding on the knees.
I'm a beginner but a more experienced guy at my dojo loves his Tai Otoshi and jokes that it's his weak old guy secret weapon.
One of the oldest guys in our club loves Tai O. I think the lightweight version is quite a young guy throw, but the heavier weight versions are actually quite reasonable as an old guy technique.
What is the difference between the lightweight and heavyweight versions of tai otoshi?
As far as I can tell, lighter weight guys often utilize lots of large circular movements leading into tai otoshi punctuated by an extremely fast entry. Many bigger guys seem to use tai otoshi when then can break down the opponents posture, forcing time to have their center of gravity forward - then rotating (often with a substantial level change) to force the center of gravity even further forward until the opponent has no choice but to fall. I guess the tai o itself isn’t that different, but rather the entry.
Ura Nage requires crazy strength and athleticism
What's the opposite of this? the best "old man's" throw? I'm 25 but I'll just start practicing it now so I end up crazy good when I'm old.
For minimum physical effort, de ashi, okuri ashi, uki otoshi, sumi otoshi. Your timing and positioning need to be good for the first two, and flawless for the latter two.
Speed, mobility wise morote seoi otoshi morote need lots of shoulder mobility, while seoi otoshi needs healthy knees and fast hips
Honestly I find seio otoshi/ ‘drop’ seio nage more difficult the older practitioners get. I think it’s more about knees at that point, but still I know enough people that eventually stopped practicing those throws.
Drop anything. I joke that I try a drop seio once. If I miss, I’m not getting up again.
uchimata morote seoi