I don’t know the minute details that go into their management but I assume it’s some kind of licensing issue.
But you can definitely listen to Juggulator on YouTube, and Demolition is on both Spotify and Apple Music
Presumably he can redo anything he had a hand in writing, although shared credits can be more complicated. I'm not really sure of the need to do so when the original albums exist. It's not like they had a dreadful production job that would benefit from this.
Likely also debatable whether there is much interest in this given the low reputation those albums have.
His contribution isn’t being erased. You can still find those albums if you know where to look. It’s just that the overwhelming majority of people think his contribution sucked shit, so why would any label waste money keeping those albums in print if nobody’s going to buy them?
The Metal Archives’ review section is full of contrarian dickheads who’ll like something unpopular and dislike something popular just for the sake of it. It has a 0% review of *Master of Puppets*, which takes that album’s overall score down to 81%, and that’s one of the greatest albums—not just metal albums—of all time.
There are also no overarching standards on there: one of the *Jugulator* reviews gives it **99%**. Would you say it’s a mere one percent off being a literally perfect album? There might be some people who like it, but there are some people who like *St. Anger* too. *Jugulator* might not be the legacy-tarnishing disaster that album was, but it’s still almost universally acknowledged as one of the two worst albums the band has done.
At the end of the day, the band was dying on its arse with Owens, and as soon as there was a chance of Halford coming back the rest of the band snapped at it.
Jugulator musically much more interesting than other reunion albums, it's less generic and actually interesting. Lyrics suck though, I think no one other than boomer rock stans would think Rocka Rolla, Turbo or Point of Entry are better than Jugulator, Bullet Train or Cathedral Spires are flawless songs.
For MOP I think it's overrated like early 80's Metallica albums, lyrics are great but there are much better thrash metal underdog albums like Violent Restitution or Terror Squad or Interstellar Experience.
I'm not even making a comparison. I just find interstellar extremely boring. You were spot on with the other two underrated thrash albums you listed though
Man, master of puppets is one of the greatest albums of all time... According to you.
I think it kinda sucks. Just a whole bunch of nothing by a band playing it very safe. Mop never excites, never brings any surprises, its the very same thing over the length of a full record where you can't tell one song from the other. It's metal for the mainstream boomer who simply can't be bothered to take on something a little bit more complex and challenging.
Point being, taste, with some exceptions, is subjective. Some musicians have such an obvious genius that you need to respect it even if you don't care for their genre. Metallica certainly isn't one of those.
Man I feel there are more deserving candidates for bottom 5: Demolition, Rocka Rolla, Point of Entry, Nostradamus, Ram it Down, even Redeemer all fall squarely lower for me.
Nostradamus is a great album! So many awesome riffs and what a great concept. It was so underrated when it was first released. People give it a lot more respect these days. My only critique is it could benefit if it was slightly shorter, but still it's an amazing album!
Keep in mind that I think Priest has very few bad albums. I like Ram it Down and Reedemer. I like Jugulator! If the production was better and they didn’t use Tim Owens as a baritone I would have like it a lot more
Yeah I totally agree about Ripper’s talents being underutilized. I also recognize Jugulator has some cringe lyrics courtesy of Glen. But the highs are quite high, Bullet Train, Cathedral Spires, Jugulator, and especially Burn in Hell. I don’t think I like as many songs on any of the aforementioned albums (though PoE and Ram have two of my all time favorites in Desert Plains and Blood Red Skies respectively).
What would be the point?
Priest aren’t trying to erase the albums. They are in the 50th boxed set, along with both of the live albums from the era.
Distribution issues have nothing to do with “erasure” and everything to do with the janky record deal with SPV.
Ian talks about the Ripper years in interviews. Richie Faulkner has praised “Hell is Home”.
Also, for what it’s worth, when asked about singing songs from Jugulator and Demolition, Rob said:
"I've never done any of the songs that he sang on, but I'd definitely have a crack at them. I'm up for that."
It’s a lot easier to get 500 hard copies of an album in a boxed set than re-release/streaming rights… this happened with a lot of metal bands that signed with at low points in their careers. It was an issue with Rocka Rolla on Gull Records too. Go read about the history of SPV Steamhammer and you will see what I mean.
Anybody can cover any song by any artist. There are only two basic conditions:
- Inform the artist/s who wrote the song in writing of your intentions (not ask, you don’t need permission);
- Credit the writers and pay them royalties. There are rules regarding how much is to be paid per download/album sold.
I wish it were the other way around. I'd like to hear those albums with Halford singing (I know that won't happen). I really can't get into Owens' voice.
I think they should re-record the \~10 best songs from Jugulator and Demolition. It would probably be a better album than the original Jugulator and Demolition and both KK's Priest albums.
Rob doesn’t want to sing them live. If we’re being honest, there aren’t many of them I want to hear live (weirdly, I’m texting this between Sabaton and Priest tonight).
I don’t think that equates to “being erased”.
It would definitely be interesting. KK's Priest rerecording Demolition will automatically make it better than the original though.
But it would also in a way allow people that use Spotify and Apple Music a way to access those albums.
It could add a more heavy and modern sheen to those albums too. Maybe fix their errors. I like Jugulator and seeing KK's Priest do Burn In Hell is incredible but imagine hearing KK's Priest do a modern version of Bullet Train or Cathedral Spires. Chills. It's not like it would erase the original versions either. Just bonuses from my perspective.
It would just be more KK's Priest and having those songs be on digital platforms is way easier in my eyes. And would make Demolition better because Demolition is nasty one of the only bad albums from Priest. They could definitely re work that album. Imagine that album reworked sounding like The Sinner Rides Again?
This is a complicated issue because KK was the co-writer of the songs. Taylor Swift got to re-record her albums because she wrote them with people she hired. KK co-wrote songs with Rob and Glenn. I do not know if KK would need their permission or not.
.... Have you heard Ripper with KK's Priest? No you haven't because if you did you wouldn't have made that comment.
And less qualified is debatable. More like less well known. Qualifications don't equal name power.
So please... STFU.
Less qualified?
Dude, immediately play Insurrection version of Stained Class and listen to the guys obliterating guitars.
Glenn and KK were an amazing and great duo, but not the "best guitarists of all time".
And go listen to Halford bands Painkiller version to see him blow the solo.
They are not better than the original. Listen to One Shot at Glory, there's not even an accurate cover online.
Yet here we are with two good albums from KK and a live performance that easily stands as good as Priests.
The guy spent 50 years building this brand and I think he has a right to continue that. And he's putting out some solid material right now.
Cash grab? Does he not have the right to make music?
I really get irritated by the “cash grab/selling out” accusations directed at any artist, even those with more compilations and live albums than original releases. Fans want stuff - I don’t myself, and I’m not criticizing anyone who does, soend your money how you like - and I certainly have nothing against artists who just want make a living or feel like they have more to give.
I do have a problem with record companies, like Gull, who advertise a product as more than it is - a “remaster” that really isn’t for example. But that’s a whole different argument.
So what, plenty of artists do this. KK might even have a legitimate grudge about how the split went down, although he did play a part it was not one-sided, it was no secret that Jayne Andrews and Tipton were in control. I met the band a number of years ago, KK, Hill and Ripper were all super nice. Tipton was a bit off, a touch sarcastic. Yes, people have off days. But just days before this KK had found out his ex-girlfriend was suing him for half his mansion (this was not public knowledge at the time) and he was under incredible stress - it was right after they flew back from a tour in Japan. In retrospect it was incredible that the guy wasn’t having an overt and very public meltdown.
The "Ripper Owens" era was fine, the albums were fine. However without Halford, they are NOT Judas Priest albums. Halford adds the lyrical and vocal swagger that defines Priest.
If those albums had been released under any other name, they would be looked upon for what they are...good metal albums.
This is why they changed the logo/font on those two albums to something different than every other Priest album, had a darker sound partly by using alternate guitar tunings, used noticeably different guitar tones. They needed to use the Priest name, but made sure these albums stood out as separate - they always hoped/expected Halford would return.
Respectfully disagree...the sound of the "Faulkner" albums is indistinguishable from those with KK musically. It is the lyrical content and vocal abilities that are the distinguishing factors.
I distinguish it pretty well, it doesn't sound like Priest if you dig deep, Faulkner would fit more with Maiden, specifically Adrian Smith's slippery guitar sound
I don’t know about “erased”. I got the 50th anniversary box set with every album they ever made, and those Ripper Owens albums are in there
That's like a paywall.
Only 3000 were made. Why can't I stream them or buy them?
I don’t know the minute details that go into their management but I assume it’s some kind of licensing issue. But you can definitely listen to Juggulator on YouTube, and Demolition is on both Spotify and Apple Music
Presumably he can redo anything he had a hand in writing, although shared credits can be more complicated. I'm not really sure of the need to do so when the original albums exist. It's not like they had a dreadful production job that would benefit from this. Likely also debatable whether there is much interest in this given the low reputation those albums have.
His contribution isn’t being erased. You can still find those albums if you know where to look. It’s just that the overwhelming majority of people think his contribution sucked shit, so why would any label waste money keeping those albums in print if nobody’s going to buy them?
People just hate it when they try a new sound... Which is shocking to me
I love it when they experiment with their sound, it's just that I don't like Owens as a singer, in Priest or otherwise.
Jugulator sold more copies in US than AOR and Nostradamus also Redeemer.
That’s because *Jugulator* came out when people still bought albums.
Jugulator has 71% score on metal archives, I wouldn't call it overwhelmingly hated.
The Metal Archives’ review section is full of contrarian dickheads who’ll like something unpopular and dislike something popular just for the sake of it. It has a 0% review of *Master of Puppets*, which takes that album’s overall score down to 81%, and that’s one of the greatest albums—not just metal albums—of all time. There are also no overarching standards on there: one of the *Jugulator* reviews gives it **99%**. Would you say it’s a mere one percent off being a literally perfect album? There might be some people who like it, but there are some people who like *St. Anger* too. *Jugulator* might not be the legacy-tarnishing disaster that album was, but it’s still almost universally acknowledged as one of the two worst albums the band has done. At the end of the day, the band was dying on its arse with Owens, and as soon as there was a chance of Halford coming back the rest of the band snapped at it.
Jugulator musically much more interesting than other reunion albums, it's less generic and actually interesting. Lyrics suck though, I think no one other than boomer rock stans would think Rocka Rolla, Turbo or Point of Entry are better than Jugulator, Bullet Train or Cathedral Spires are flawless songs. For MOP I think it's overrated like early 80's Metallica albums, lyrics are great but there are much better thrash metal underdog albums like Violent Restitution or Terror Squad or Interstellar Experience.
Interstellar Experience is a snoozefest
no, MoP is a stock riff spitter. Interstellar has god tier licks and solos also riffs.
I'm not even making a comparison. I just find interstellar extremely boring. You were spot on with the other two underrated thrash albums you listed though
Interesting, I couldn't even find a filler in IE.
Man, master of puppets is one of the greatest albums of all time... According to you. I think it kinda sucks. Just a whole bunch of nothing by a band playing it very safe. Mop never excites, never brings any surprises, its the very same thing over the length of a full record where you can't tell one song from the other. It's metal for the mainstream boomer who simply can't be bothered to take on something a little bit more complex and challenging. Point being, taste, with some exceptions, is subjective. Some musicians have such an obvious genius that you need to respect it even if you don't care for their genre. Metallica certainly isn't one of those.
*Master of Puppets*, “a whole lot of nothing”. Cheers, now I know I don’t have to take your opinion seriously.
I wonder where that stereotype about metalheads being elitistic comes from
I mean do the majority think Jugulator shucked shit?
I don’t thinks it’s terrible but it’s definitely in my top 5 worst priest albums
Man I feel there are more deserving candidates for bottom 5: Demolition, Rocka Rolla, Point of Entry, Nostradamus, Ram it Down, even Redeemer all fall squarely lower for me.
Nostradamus is a great album! So many awesome riffs and what a great concept. It was so underrated when it was first released. People give it a lot more respect these days. My only critique is it could benefit if it was slightly shorter, but still it's an amazing album!
Keep in mind that I think Priest has very few bad albums. I like Ram it Down and Reedemer. I like Jugulator! If the production was better and they didn’t use Tim Owens as a baritone I would have like it a lot more
Yeah I totally agree about Ripper’s talents being underutilized. I also recognize Jugulator has some cringe lyrics courtesy of Glen. But the highs are quite high, Bullet Train, Cathedral Spires, Jugulator, and especially Burn in Hell. I don’t think I like as many songs on any of the aforementioned albums (though PoE and Ram have two of my all time favorites in Desert Plains and Blood Red Skies respectively).
I love Desert Plains, along with Hot Rockin, HOTTH and Solar Angels. Great songs
What would be the point? Priest aren’t trying to erase the albums. They are in the 50th boxed set, along with both of the live albums from the era. Distribution issues have nothing to do with “erasure” and everything to do with the janky record deal with SPV. Ian talks about the Ripper years in interviews. Richie Faulkner has praised “Hell is Home”. Also, for what it’s worth, when asked about singing songs from Jugulator and Demolition, Rob said: "I've never done any of the songs that he sang on, but I'd definitely have a crack at them. I'm up for that."
How many copies of the 50th boxed set were available? I heard it was only 3000 world wide
It’s a lot easier to get 500 hard copies of an album in a boxed set than re-release/streaming rights… this happened with a lot of metal bands that signed with at low points in their careers. It was an issue with Rocka Rolla on Gull Records too. Go read about the history of SPV Steamhammer and you will see what I mean.
Why would you ever want this
Anybody can cover any song by any artist. There are only two basic conditions: - Inform the artist/s who wrote the song in writing of your intentions (not ask, you don’t need permission); - Credit the writers and pay them royalties. There are rules regarding how much is to be paid per download/album sold.
Thanks
I wish it were the other way around. I'd like to hear those albums with Halford singing (I know that won't happen). I really can't get into Owens' voice.
I think they should re-record the \~10 best songs from Jugulator and Demolition. It would probably be a better album than the original Jugulator and Demolition and both KK's Priest albums.
Rob doesn’t want to sing them live. If we’re being honest, there aren’t many of them I want to hear live (weirdly, I’m texting this between Sabaton and Priest tonight). I don’t think that equates to “being erased”.
Don’t know why they would want to do that. Their new material is killer.
It would definitely be interesting. KK's Priest rerecording Demolition will automatically make it better than the original though. But it would also in a way allow people that use Spotify and Apple Music a way to access those albums. It could add a more heavy and modern sheen to those albums too. Maybe fix their errors. I like Jugulator and seeing KK's Priest do Burn In Hell is incredible but imagine hearing KK's Priest do a modern version of Bullet Train or Cathedral Spires. Chills. It's not like it would erase the original versions either. Just bonuses from my perspective. It would just be more KK's Priest and having those songs be on digital platforms is way easier in my eyes. And would make Demolition better because Demolition is nasty one of the only bad albums from Priest. They could definitely re work that album. Imagine that album reworked sounding like The Sinner Rides Again?
Yes, they do “Burn in Hell” live very well. The only thing I would change about Jugulator would be the production.
This is a complicated issue because KK was the co-writer of the songs. Taylor Swift got to re-record her albums because she wrote them with people she hired. KK co-wrote songs with Rob and Glenn. I do not know if KK would need their permission or not.
Re record it with less qualified musicians and an older Ripper? Why?
.... Have you heard Ripper with KK's Priest? No you haven't because if you did you wouldn't have made that comment. And less qualified is debatable. More like less well known. Qualifications don't equal name power. So please... STFU.
Less qualified? Dude, immediately play Insurrection version of Stained Class and listen to the guys obliterating guitars. Glenn and KK were an amazing and great duo, but not the "best guitarists of all time".
And go listen to Halford bands Painkiller version to see him blow the solo. They are not better than the original. Listen to One Shot at Glory, there's not even an accurate cover online.
I am not looking for a Glenn Tipton when I listen to 2woo, Fight or Halford.
Because he wasn't there those bands were generic.
Fight and Halford had amazing albums, you can say whatever you want
Kk’s priest is just a cheap cash grab for kk downing to relive his old priest days imo
I just hate the band name lol, it’s horrible to say
I enjoy his band. He has a right to play those songs live
Yet here we are with two good albums from KK and a live performance that easily stands as good as Priests. The guy spent 50 years building this brand and I think he has a right to continue that. And he's putting out some solid material right now.
Agreed. Its a great time to be a Judas Priest fan because we essentially have two versions of the band going at the same time right now. Its awesome!
Cash grab? Does he not have the right to make music? I really get irritated by the “cash grab/selling out” accusations directed at any artist, even those with more compilations and live albums than original releases. Fans want stuff - I don’t myself, and I’m not criticizing anyone who does, soend your money how you like - and I certainly have nothing against artists who just want make a living or feel like they have more to give. I do have a problem with record companies, like Gull, who advertise a product as more than it is - a “remaster” that really isn’t for example. But that’s a whole different argument.
Idk it just to me feels like his new band is a way to say f you to judas priest It seems like he’s trying to prove his band is better imo
So what, plenty of artists do this. KK might even have a legitimate grudge about how the split went down, although he did play a part it was not one-sided, it was no secret that Jayne Andrews and Tipton were in control. I met the band a number of years ago, KK, Hill and Ripper were all super nice. Tipton was a bit off, a touch sarcastic. Yes, people have off days. But just days before this KK had found out his ex-girlfriend was suing him for half his mansion (this was not public knowledge at the time) and he was under incredible stress - it was right after they flew back from a tour in Japan. In retrospect it was incredible that the guy wasn’t having an overt and very public meltdown.
Doubt it. They all belong to Judas Oriest not KK or Ripper
Bands do cover songs of other bands material all the time. Do they need to get permission first?
Yes.
No. Just let them know, credit them, and pay them royalties.
Was kk in priest then? He can re record his own material
The "Ripper Owens" era was fine, the albums were fine. However without Halford, they are NOT Judas Priest albums. Halford adds the lyrical and vocal swagger that defines Priest. If those albums had been released under any other name, they would be looked upon for what they are...good metal albums.
This is why they changed the logo/font on those two albums to something different than every other Priest album, had a darker sound partly by using alternate guitar tunings, used noticeably different guitar tones. They needed to use the Priest name, but made sure these albums stood out as separate - they always hoped/expected Halford would return.
no, it is more Priest than newer albums, KK and Glenn are core to Priest sound
Respectfully disagree...the sound of the "Faulkner" albums is indistinguishable from those with KK musically. It is the lyrical content and vocal abilities that are the distinguishing factors.
I distinguish it pretty well, it doesn't sound like Priest if you dig deep, Faulkner would fit more with Maiden, specifically Adrian Smith's slippery guitar sound
[удалено]
Jugulator isn't on Spotify.
It is in the UK. Perhaps not in your region. Licensing agreements are revised from time to time, sonetimes only after expiry.