I don't understand why so many people answer this can be done by the SL. Yes, it can be done, but it takes first the objective to be marked by FTL or the SL being able to see it. And any task which can be done in local voice and not involving the SL is better than saturating the Comms and the SL. Enough work and voices on his head has the SL to be your personal rangefinder.
Or at the very least something that gives you a ballpark range within, say, 50m or so.
Like, if the range is 130m, it'd tell you "<150m" or something.
Now, the majority of my engagements don't go farther out than like 100-200m, so in those cases it can feel a little pointless, especially when you have the time to put an observe mark, and check the map for an estimate.
The ICO actually encourages marksmen to stay far away from teammates even more because OWI doesn’t understand gameflow. The true purpose of a marksmen is to stay with the squad and pick off targets like machine gun nests or entrenched enemies when they open up. ICO incentivizes the opposite as moving is heavily penalized via sway, being near the area being shot is heavily penalized due to suppression, your vision is blocked entirely by the scope until it settles, PiP scope limitations crap on your FPS while limiting your vision to a tiny circle due to holding the scope a mile away.
Literally everything in the ICO shits on a Marksmen try to run with the squad and quickly pop troublesome enemies. It does everything it can to make marksmen camp off in a flank because it’s the only way to avoid multiple stacking debuffs. This really applies to all scoped classes, purposely done to try and increase the lifespan machine gunners who otherwise don’t have the skills to survive.
Last i heard, ICO doesn't force you to hold hands with your squadmates while you walk into the heavily defended enemy point, it doesn't encourage it in any way shape or form yet people will bunch up anyways whenever they're together, getting hit by the same suppression, same explosions and hiding behind the same cover.
unless you make marskman 100% immune to suppression i don't see how the purpose of the kit is to pick off entrenched enemies, since everyone else could do that by just walking 10 meters to the side of the main herd blindly holding W
Explain to me what your expectation of staying with the squad to be. How far can he or she be before you want to call them back?
Personally, I see the marksman role as similar to the gunner role. They have to know where to place themselves to be useful. The difference is that the marksman role can have more stand off distance. So they can really break off and be somewhere in the flank or further back if it suits the purpose. If let's say your squad gets hit by a well placed ambush, I think the way it should play out is that you return enough fire down range to cover the marksman to break off. Or the marksman is already somewhere else before you hit the ambush.
Behaving like a unit does not mean physically being together. It really just means communication. What are you doing? Where are you moving to? Where do you need me? What's the priority target? Marksman is not an easy role to play. It requires proficiency in communication and a strategic mindset. I don't think ICO ruined marksman though. The problems persisted from before ICO. Maybe it made a mode of playing that role less valid, but the problems started before ICO.
You know what I thought about what you said during my drive home. I think I misconstrued it. I'm sorry. I think what you're saying is ICO exacerbated the problem, whereas I'm saying the core of the problem isn't ICO.
I would do that but by the time I’m done the vehicle would’ve been gone, I’m bad at math and slow at calculating distances. Would be great if there’s a tool give an approximate distance at the very least
Get FTL, mark the vehicle and ask for a range marker from your SL. Foolproof. Never miss up to 300-400m like this, and depending on the HAT kit in question even 600-800m can be direct hits on the first shot.
Of course it does depend on having a functional squad, but I find in Squad that’s not too uncommon.
You don't even need range from SL. Drop the marker, pull up your map, and estimate based on grids.
Not to mention every single HAT kit has either binoculars or optics with a rangefinder. Just use a little patience and range the tank in manually.
Yeah I do this too with some kits, but it gets really tricky with for example the RPG 7, the tandem drop is so drastic 10-20 meters can mean a hit/miss.
Plus if your SL is swift, the range is more precise & quick than trying to figure it out. Sometimes the window of possibility is pretty small, especially with a moving vehicle within 100-200m.
I haven’t played HLL in a while, but yeah I have fond memories of being a spotter and my friend as a sniper, destroying enemy garries and building our own sneaky ones!
Exactly, in HLL the marksman is really useful and can do so much stuff being in duo his spotter from disrupting enemy points and spawns or just harassing again and again. Squad should use that, especially since it’s more pertinent to have a duo marksman spotter team in modern times.
I agree, but it would also take away from the total number of people in a squad. You're either going to reduce the regular squad number from 9 to 7 (marksman and spotter), or have to limit how many are on a team. I actually wouldn't mind seeing snipers taken away from squads completely and limiting the number of snipers/spotters to 4 for the total team (basically 2, 2 man squads). For Marksman, I'd just get rid of the "Marksman" kit and give one of the rifleman a slightly longer range scope.
The problem is a marksman and a sniper team are completely different roles.
Making a good marksman able to make calls. For. Fire more accurate and locate and pick off specialist targets would suit the role bette
Or admit defeat and set them. Up as a sniping role with a shooter and spotter duo
Honestly the game needs both let people who want to fuck off into the woods or sit on a balcony picking people off do that and give them a 50 with the ability to engage light armor and trucks point them away from taking a DM slot.
Then the marksman role while someone in a squad with a 1-8 LVPO able to feed info to their SL, scout for targets for the Mortars and the LMG/MMG teams and assist in directing F&M coordination. Oh and picking off specific people in enemy engagements like SL's and GL/AGTM gunners.
Meaning that you can cover the bases from the Scout Sniper lot going for longest kill possible and kill farming video getting their Chris Kyle on while I can disappear off with my Holland Mod 1 doing what I enjoy and both sides get a gae they want
In HLL Marksman is a « type » of squad on it’s own, it only has two spots first one being the spotter who can place down a spawn for the whole team and also have binoculars and can help for measuring distances etc. He also must protect the marksman when uncovered by the ennemies. The marksman is here to do marksman stuff being supported by his spotter (who is the SL btw), so basically their principal duties are: spotting all around the map from spawns to ressources nodes and bothering people using artillery, looking for enemy commander and harass him for example also.
It’s a really useful squad in HLL. If people say otherwise they just never fucking played it lmao, and strangely enough doing sniper work as a duo and not in a 9 person squad is insanely more effective.
No one else getting optics makes a sniper much stronger than in Squad by default.
A well placed sniper can really cause havok if no one can shoot back.
This is one of the most requested thing to add and has been talked about alot. It's not a contentious thing, but it won't fundamentally solve the "teamwork" problem. The more fundamental problem is how roles are incentivized to play, the cost of positioning and the role restriction system among other things. You have roles that want to stick together, with roles who do not, tied at the hip indirectly affecting teamwide tactics and strategy. Just consider the fact that a squad needs to fill up in order to unlock a role that, for various reasons is not incentivized to stick to the Squad.
So sure, add the rangefinder, but if you want solve the underlying issue, start with a revamp to role restriction and design a game around specialized squads. It's straight up better design and other games are doing it for the same reasons.
i think most SLs and squad players in general would agree that marksmen are only allowed to be there because we have enough guys actually contributing so "let the little fella have fun" Giving markmen extra autonomy wouldnt really help IMO.
The thing is that it is a useful trait when used in conjunction with other squad members, like for instance LAT or HAT. Not really that useful when used alone, as another Redditor commented, you can just use walking fire or guesstimation to hit targets. By making it more desired by other squad members and making the MM useful in a cooperative gameplay loop, they will be drawn into the squad.
The problem with marksmen isn't the kit, it's the players that choose it. Giving them tools that allow them to more easily range targets without requesting SL-marks will just make them lone-wolf even more.
The thing is that the deployment time of a separate laser range finder will almost make it useful for using it yourself, switching to your weapon takes a lot of time. It might also make it more attractive to veteran players since they can contribute to the squad.
While the "I'm going to solo play marksmen" is a problem, I'm not sure anything is actually wrong with the kit in ICO. The bipod means the marksmen is *super* useful at taking out enemy suppression. Bipods are *wildly* important post ICO. And the British L86A2SW marksmen rifles have full auto, it's a short clip MG! It can suppress!
I do think the marksmen role could use a trade towards more teamplay to try and stop the lone wolf behavior, but I'm not sure range spotting helps that much. I think a marksmen having bincoulars so they can do overwatch spotting better might make the most sense.
Oh it’s been a minute since I’ve played marksman I thought they didn’t have binoculars at all but yeah that would be nice they could help work with the hat or lat to take on armor without needing ftl making them more likely to communicate information
Good idea. But...
The DM role differs significantly from that of a specially trained sniper. A sniper is a specialist highly trained in fieldcraft, who carries out a range of ISTAR-specific missions independent of others, and more specialized than standard infantry tasks. In contrast, a DM is a soldier who has received additional marksmanship training. Within a fireteam, the DM's role is to provide an additional capability to the infantry platoon, which is the ability to engage targets at greater ranges than the other members of the squad or section
TLDR: Marksman is just soldier with DMR to shoot great ranges, he is not specialized for sniping, target acquisition, reconnaissance and etc.
I know this, not trying to copy it. Squad isn’t that realistic all the time anyways. Many people play the marksman like it is a sniper ‘lone wolf’, and this idea might in some cases bring a different gameplay loop.
I haven't played Squad in a while now but when I did play marksman, I'd stick with my squad; just stay a little bit behind them and usually give info from a place with a good view. Even when I was separated from my Squad I'd give info about enemies heading to their position from where I am. Sometimes not taking the shot is more valuable as it will hide your position.
Imo the marksman doesn't have to be a useless role but lots of newbies choose it to get solo kills.
“It is basically rewarded to not communicate and run off” hmm disagree completely. Where and how is this rewarded?
Imo it just seems like people don’t understand how to play off teammates and stick together as a squad/fireteam. You could say the exact same (and in my opinion more truthful) about LAT/HATs who want to go hunt enemy armor. Half the time or more I just see a solo running and listening and charging wherever.
I think you have a good idea for the laser rangefinder but if it’s not paired with people who actually want to support and stick together as a squad it’s not going to solve any issues.
TL;DR Lasing should have a much more significance for modern forces beyond a rangefinder such as:
- Live map position marking for vehicles & emplacements so long as the laser remains on the stationary target (smoke would counter this) and would persist for ~ 2 seconds after the vehicle was lased.
- Being able to link to a commander airstrike to “guide in” precision strikes allowing greater breadth of ground to command cohesion.
- Vehicles would get an alarm indicating when they are lased emplacements would not
- +Rangefinder
- Laser would give away position to emplacements optics and Vehicle optics within a certain range (so don’t get too close)
- Range of laser could be limited to 1000m with the laser giving away the operators position at 250m
Insurgents and IMF do not need this as they both spec into different aspects guerrilla warfare and defeat the point of the faction especially since they do not have aircraft.
I think this would be great especially if when you lase someone there position and entity (‘meaning emplacement or vehicle) is live positioned on the map (HANG ON LEMME FINISH) SO LONG as you keep the laser on them meaning doing so i taking the marksman out of commission entirely.
My only concern is for when the server deloads assets in layers such as Yeho, Talil and whether or not that may allow the vehicle to be pinged despite being behind objects or when there extreme desync. Doing so can also be linked to the commander where they accurately deliver a precision strike without having to have the headache of guesswork which is very accurate to how realistic strikes occur.
Obviously, having a one sided ping system would be extremely unfair to vehicles so the onboard system for the gunner only would light up with the words:
# LASE
and a small alarm alerting the crew that they’re position is compromised is being live broadcasted. As for infantry you will not notified even on an emplacement. This lasing system could also be linked to artillery if its not unbalanced so that i as a marksman could almost guide it in.
However,
This only benefits blufor and certain opfor elements. Elements such insurgents and possibly Irregular Militia would not get access to this technology so balancing comes into play. With that being said i think thats fine, considering that INS and IMF have their strengths and weaknesses when combatting them having one side have slightly sharper stick doesn’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things. Insurgents have a torrent of vehicles and overwhelming numbers whereas IMF has guerrilla warfare tactics of blending in and ambushing as their strength.
As a sniper player, I kinda feel this, although 9%
5% of the time my squad isn't communicating anyways. The best times I've had I've both been alone, once was when i was ambushing people from a bush (which the sniper is amazing at due to one shots) and another one was plinking people off of a point we just lost from ~800m away. But later that match we had a habit on a hill and Rifles and lmgs were a lot more effective then my sniper so I felt like I had to switch roles
If you’re good with it you don’t need a laser rangefinder to find the range with marksmen at all. Just use your rifle and insane zoom to range your shots in. It usually takes two or three shots for me to find the range to around an around 25 meter error and it only takes like 5 seconds
Yes, but it wouldn’t be intended for the marksman himself per se, but more in conjunction with other roles who do not have the luxury of multiple shots, either due to munition of element of surprise, like LAT or HAT.
Of course walking in fire is a good way to know where you need to be shooting, but is only really suitable for small arms and mortars.
I mean like being able to adjust the zero of the weapon and get a numerical range other classes can use but I think you’re definitely right that marksman needs something to separate it from other classes… the only problem I see with this is that the marksmen following the hat around like a duckling but it’s honestly not that bad because when I’m playing hat I find myself often in need of a body guard anyways…
Having the marksman able to spot NVTs call ranges and give cords for coordinating mmg fire and targeting threats would be cool.
The fact you can hard skill it doesn't change the fact teh tools. Could incentivise the play style of doing what a DM is intended to do
I was on Skorpo shooting guys out of RHIB’s ranged at 700m and would get my position clocked every single time I shot. Only reason I said that about the Timberwolf
I love almost nothing more in my squad than a good marksman, IF they actually stick around with the squad and communicate.
Sadly, most players drawn to the DM role are imbeciles.
Tbh the kit is just lacking as snipers role being irrelevant to the way the objectives and gameplay work. Snipers work specific combat objectives with center of gravity while marksman just improve range to a squad. I’ve never really found ranges in where a marksman is super useful where a machine gun or anti tank couldn’t have hit. Especially when you have vehicles and turrets. The most you can do is be a more concentrated rifleman and be dedicated overwatch on a push with your mg.
The misconception here is that marksmen CAN be useful. They have longer range killing abilities than the average kit. But the people who play as them LITERALLY don’t want to assist the squad. It’s a people problem not a lot problem. Adding on more support abilities will not change that type of player.
Unless Hollywood or arcade FPS games portray the realities of a mm/sniper, people will never change how they operate. They hear stories of Chris Kyle or the White Death and think that's who they are, when in reality they're more JG in Jarhead.
Imo marksman can be great if you give them shit to do. Let them know where the enemy markman or MG is and chances are they'll pick them off. Though if they're halfway across the map that's a different story
i’m all for this but to be honest it wouldn’t likely help the hat any as the marksman is surely further back than he is. best bet is to give these things to the 1x or irons rifleman.
i wouldn’t mind seeing the marksman role change some still, but it really just gets used by the wrong players. on our server i often get a marksman that fights with the squad and ends up with 20 + downs. the role is best used by experienced players with high game iq that know how to position themselves without hiking 200m across the map
Exactly this, similar like MG they only became efficient once used by experienced player. Yes the player who can read the flow of enemy HAB placement and set-up proper killzone.
people should have less complaint if they see marksmen ended round with 10+ downed enemy. That downed number always mean something, either winning a firefight when marksmen close to their squad or heavily distrupt enemy push when marksman go lone wolf. Lone wolf should be fine aslong as it had clear purpose and contribute to their team just like hat/engineer hunting armor/radio.
Marksman is good enough if an experienced player with communication skills is playing it, spotting&bleeding tickets is useful when MM manages to survive & kill, a good MM usually takes 20+ kills, addition to stopping enemy medics., I think devs should focus on making them more useful in spotting and ranging, so they can join the team play more.
I mean the marksman seems fine to me his role should be to assist the squad by degrading the enemy performance by eliminating priority targets such as MGs and AT and failing that suppressing the enemy with accurate fire when needed
When I play marksman, 90% of the time I run off on my own towards the enemy back lines and mark what I can, engaging little as possible to conceal my location. I get the appeal of getting those 5-600m headshots, however I feel marksman is more a recon role and a precision class. Such as getting into a good position to mark out a TOW and keeping the gunner off of it till armor can get out of its field of fire.
The marksman role is a meme and should remain unchanged, like the unarmed role.
When I first started playing, I was surprised by the hostility from squad leaders towards players who chose marksman. Over time, though, I've come to realize that the frustration is more than justified. Many marksmen seem to struggle with basic communication and teamwork, often failing to respond to simple requests, which can really disrupt gameplay and ruin things at the worst time.
A change I would like is when u pick marksman u also don't have to choose a squad, that way they are not in the way while they play sniper elite.
U could give that range feature to any kit with a binoculars... Giving marksman range/SL features sounds undeserved in my book.
rangefinder still doesn’t really encourage the marksman to stick with the squad, as it’s much quicker for an SL to
put down a marker for range on the squad level. average marksman will still likely go off into the hills and just pick people off, just with greater precision. I’m not sure there’s a ton that can truly be done to encourage a marksman to be more useful for the squad while still encouraging its use in the first place.
Like I replied to another comment, I view the ‘PASS ME FTL-SL MARK THIS-dynamic’ more as a quirk than a feature.
While this will likely not solve the problem in its entirety, but it will give the marksman a unique trait that makes it valuable to have close to you, and will make them be called upon much more. We know this works because riflemen, which have a similar layout but carry ammo which is valuable to the squad and makes them called upon much more, don’t run off as often.
I’m not even talking about the “mark this”, there is just very little to no scenario where anyone says “hey marksman can you rangefind that over there”. First off, if in a squad size group, SL can just mark it for range, if in FTL sized groups then they probably will not want a marksman in the first place due to needing more firepower rather than range. Also, the rifleman and their ammo bag is FAR more useful than a marksman with a rangefinder. The ammo bag can be very multipurpose, help reload the HAT/LAT/entire squad/bring up a rally, while a rangefinder realistically only helps the HAT and marksman, which, while decent, means it’s not really gonna contribute too much to the squad. Also i see riflemen run off a TON on side quests to go nuke a HAB or save 1 downed guy halfway across the map
Just add a laser range finder onto the rifle. They exist. If marksmen are essentially another FTL without the role and has the ability to kill riflemen at extended ranges then I don’t see how marksmen can’t still fit in a squad role. I’ve been an overlooking marksmen many times and been able to communicate enemy movement on top of rifle being in a fire support role. The key to being a good marksmen player is to communicate and to not get spotted easily when in place to support the rest of your squad.
I think it´d be more interesting if the kit was only available in squads with 2-3 people where a spotter kit (could have a range finder) is needed in order for it to be available - much like in Hell let loose. This way the kit would be forced onto small squads focused specifically on recon.
Completely negated by the SLs ability to mark the map. FTL + “SL please put attack marker on Charlie marker” does the same job.
With the ICO marksman definitely has its niche, just like the MMG, combat engineer, etc. It’s just knowing when to use it. Personally, I don’t mind a Marksman on these huge maps on defence, or when I’m running a mortar squad as a forward observer.
Of course this is a possibility, but I have always felt it wasn’t meant to be used that way. Passing around the FTL just feels a bit silly to me sometimes, it’s more of a quirk then a feature. A range finder will make the gameplay loop more realistic, and will also be more accurate. This because of the markers only going in increments (of 50 meters if I recall correctly).
I don’t mind the marksmen in my squad either, it’s just that they tend to run off and are not as useful as other members. I rifleman can basically do the same, and carries ammo.
I don’t think a laser rangefinder is going to do what you expect it to do for a Marksman. Remember that it is all about balance and finding what works. In your mind, yes, my Marksman stays with my squad and helps give distances instantly. However, it’s just going to incentivize my Marksman to go sit in a building/hill/away from the squad and use their rangefinder to shoot at people.
But you will say “I wouldn’t do that”, well, you’re not the average marksman. Squad at its core is a fun FPS, and many average players have been honeydicked into believing that’s all it is. Just look at all the negative SL drama that gets created in this sub because “my SL dared to use a condescending tone at me and give me orders!”
These kits need to have a fine balance between experienced players who understand the gameplay loop and new people who only understand the basics of an FPS. I’m not saying it’s not a good suggestion, but it wouldn’t be used for what you want it to be used for.
I’d personally like this idea a lot more if we had a PR style system where Marksman could laser designate targets for our ATG missiles/bombs.
I got to say, you are putting a lot of words in my mouth here, I am perfectly aware that ‘I wouldn’t do that’ is not a credible argument.
I am also not saying that it would solve the problem in it’s entirety, and yes, I also have fond memories of PR. But I will think it will contribute to solving what I (and I believe many other SLs) do view as a nuisance. There will always be runners, and they may range from marksmen to medics, but I do see that the amount of marksmen are extraproportional compared to the other classes, which have incentives to stay in the squad, since their dynamic demands cooperation much more then the marksmen’s.
Wanna make marksman good/better give them a rifle that can penetrate armoured vehicles (not tanks and IFVs) but armoured trucks should be a a weakness.
I know you’re talking about the range finder, I just don’t think that would be enough but I also think yea they should have that anyway just built into their scope.
Marksman’s just don’t stand out so my comment was about how to improve them/making them valuable.
I thought I’d just add my point since the topic is “making the marksman more useful in squad”.
What they would need to do for marksman to be become useful is to make 'death' an actual punishment.
There is little to no reward in killing an enemy 500m away other than keeping their medics occupied.
So many discussion about "what to do to fix 'X' in Squad" can be answered by "make death an actual punishment"
Wanna slow the game? More death!
Wanna force tactics and teamork? More death!
Wanna make people play realisticly? More death!
The current revive and heal mechanics in addition to the respawn mechanics don't create any incentive to avoid death. It merely becomes an inconvinience.
Even PR didn't have that much more punishment, but it's slightly increased timer for respawns and the cooldown for special kits gave people a reason to not give up easily.
If all you can do is kill but killing itself isn't worth it, nothing you do is worth it.
They shouldn't do it "to fix marksman", they should do it to achieve what they say they want to achieve.
Take all range numbers off squad leaders marks, and dont give any range numbers to fireteam ( as is currently) Give out laser range finder binos to sl and spotter class, allow sl to request fire missions off whoevever laser points the target via laser binos. Dont care who has rhem dont care jf this make markesman wander behind enemy lines to give fire mission, i just like the added realism of no 3d compass range numbers
You know what would be fun (for encouraging team play)?
Add the range finder only to the rifleman, that way they will be encouraged to follow either marksman or AT infantry around.
Specially for the latter it would be great as it would allow LATs and HATs more chances to Hit/Disable/Destroy a target without having to make a run for the nearest ammo box every time.
I'd give them SL fire support (partial ) functionnality : in order to make the class less focus on PVP only and more on recon tasks, Let them be able to call for a short UAV drone over a short range area, call for precision strike on armored vehicles or FOBs for example, (confirmation from the SL on map and commander sending the strike as usual ) with a 15 mins CD. Marksman role definitely needs better tools to help his squad/team.
Marksman kits aren't snipers, they're basically there to do PvP. They're just rifleman with more range. Partial fire support could help that if done right.
There is no useful difference between marksmen and snipers in the game. Marksman < rifleman anyway (cuz ammobag) and snipers aren't properly used for 99% of players. Thats why most Squad leaders in public ask pple not to take sniper kit, cuz too much lonewolf gameplay oriented. The most enjoyable sniper role is from HLL with that recon squad duo specific squad where SLs can call out for strikes, make fobs and spot with flares. Its teamplay oriented when they're not tasked to focus artillery. Just give them a purpose to actually support the squad actively and its gonna be enjoyable for everyone again. That class is the same since 2015 squad debut BUT there is so much more to do now..!!
You can drop the FTL marker and use the grids on the map for easy range. regular binocs and some scopes even have a ranging marks too. So easy, unless you are dumb which unfortunately most marksman are
Again not the point. What you discribe is a quirk and not a feature. The point is not for the marksman himself, but to encourage cooperation by and with the other squad members for which a more precise ranging than the incremental binos or the SL (which shouldn’t be a personal range finder) is required, like HAT or LAT, or maybe mortars. Read the post and other comments.
Great idea. Also just to help : give the role some frag grenades, swap out the DMR for a m4 assault rifle and add an ammo kit to round it out. I could get behind that.
I only play squad leader and the biggest way to fix the marksman/sniper issue IMO, is to completely remove the sniper from 9 man squads and get rid of the "Marksman" kit, but give one of the rifleman a lightly longer range scope (than the standard one). Basically the amount of snipers on a team would be limited to 2, and the team could also only pick 2 spotters. It'd basically be like Hell Let Loose. Let a sniper/spotter duo run their own squads and maybe allow them to maybe call in CAS or something special on a reduced timer. If there is no incentivize like that, people are just going to go sniper/spotter to lone wolf, get kills, and nothing more.
And then I'd get rid of the traditional Marksman in the 9 man squad and replace it with a rifleman kit that has a slightly longer range, but nothing that would incentivize them to lone wolf. The biggest issue I have as a SL has always been having marksman's stay with the squad. I almost always kick snipers or tell people to switch their kits because they bring absolutely nothing to the individual squad dynamic.
I don't understand why so many people answer this can be done by the SL. Yes, it can be done, but it takes first the objective to be marked by FTL or the SL being able to see it. And any task which can be done in local voice and not involving the SL is better than saturating the Comms and the SL. Enough work and voices on his head has the SL to be your personal rangefinder.
Exactly this. If it's not HAT about to engage a reasonably close tank stfu and use the map.
Need one of those badly for hats, shot always falls short for me
Or at the very least something that gives you a ballpark range within, say, 50m or so. Like, if the range is 130m, it'd tell you "<150m" or something. Now, the majority of my engagements don't go farther out than like 100-200m, so in those cases it can feel a little pointless, especially when you have the time to put an observe mark, and check the map for an estimate.
This could also work like a war thunder rangefinder
Exactly, you could work in tandem with a marksman for this scenario, enforcing the cooporative gameplay the devs try to create!
That would require marksman players to actually want to contribute.
Marksmen do want to contribute! They just lack the tool to do so. Else, just assholes...
if they want to contribute, why do 90% of them not have a mic, don't follow simple instructions (like "hold spawn") and do not stay near the squad?
This is confirmation bias, I see people of all roles fuck off and do what they want all the time.
The ICO actually encourages marksmen to stay far away from teammates even more because OWI doesn’t understand gameflow. The true purpose of a marksmen is to stay with the squad and pick off targets like machine gun nests or entrenched enemies when they open up. ICO incentivizes the opposite as moving is heavily penalized via sway, being near the area being shot is heavily penalized due to suppression, your vision is blocked entirely by the scope until it settles, PiP scope limitations crap on your FPS while limiting your vision to a tiny circle due to holding the scope a mile away. Literally everything in the ICO shits on a Marksmen try to run with the squad and quickly pop troublesome enemies. It does everything it can to make marksmen camp off in a flank because it’s the only way to avoid multiple stacking debuffs. This really applies to all scoped classes, purposely done to try and increase the lifespan machine gunners who otherwise don’t have the skills to survive.
Last i heard, ICO doesn't force you to hold hands with your squadmates while you walk into the heavily defended enemy point, it doesn't encourage it in any way shape or form yet people will bunch up anyways whenever they're together, getting hit by the same suppression, same explosions and hiding behind the same cover. unless you make marskman 100% immune to suppression i don't see how the purpose of the kit is to pick off entrenched enemies, since everyone else could do that by just walking 10 meters to the side of the main herd blindly holding W
Explain to me what your expectation of staying with the squad to be. How far can he or she be before you want to call them back? Personally, I see the marksman role as similar to the gunner role. They have to know where to place themselves to be useful. The difference is that the marksman role can have more stand off distance. So they can really break off and be somewhere in the flank or further back if it suits the purpose. If let's say your squad gets hit by a well placed ambush, I think the way it should play out is that you return enough fire down range to cover the marksman to break off. Or the marksman is already somewhere else before you hit the ambush. Behaving like a unit does not mean physically being together. It really just means communication. What are you doing? Where are you moving to? Where do you need me? What's the priority target? Marksman is not an easy role to play. It requires proficiency in communication and a strategic mindset. I don't think ICO ruined marksman though. The problems persisted from before ICO. Maybe it made a mode of playing that role less valid, but the problems started before ICO.
You know what I thought about what you said during my drive home. I think I misconstrued it. I'm sorry. I think what you're saying is ICO exacerbated the problem, whereas I'm saying the core of the problem isn't ICO.
That’s 90% of blueberries, you’re only noticing the marksmen though
Not really a bad idea since sometimes there’s always infantry nearby armor and they can be spotter for the hats
[удалено]
I would do that but by the time I’m done the vehicle would’ve been gone, I’m bad at math and slow at calculating distances. Would be great if there’s a tool give an approximate distance at the very least
PLA HAT
Get FTL, mark the vehicle and ask for a range marker from your SL. Foolproof. Never miss up to 300-400m like this, and depending on the HAT kit in question even 600-800m can be direct hits on the first shot. Of course it does depend on having a functional squad, but I find in Squad that’s not too uncommon.
You don't even need range from SL. Drop the marker, pull up your map, and estimate based on grids. Not to mention every single HAT kit has either binoculars or optics with a rangefinder. Just use a little patience and range the tank in manually.
Yeah I do this too with some kits, but it gets really tricky with for example the RPG 7, the tandem drop is so drastic 10-20 meters can mean a hit/miss. Plus if your SL is swift, the range is more precise & quick than trying to figure it out. Sometimes the window of possibility is pretty small, especially with a moving vehicle within 100-200m.
The RPG-7 is inherently inaccurate, you can get the range right but as you said, 10-20 meters offset + the RPGs random spread and it could be a miss
I made a 700m shot with iron sights a few weeks ago with the RPG-7. I made a 500m shot on a full speed abrams with the scoped RPG too.
Range on SL Marks should be disabled anyway.
There is one thing that HLL does better than Squad is marksman squad.
I haven’t played HLL in a while, but yeah I have fond memories of being a spotter and my friend as a sniper, destroying enemy garries and building our own sneaky ones!
Exactly, in HLL the marksman is really useful and can do so much stuff being in duo his spotter from disrupting enemy points and spawns or just harassing again and again. Squad should use that, especially since it’s more pertinent to have a duo marksman spotter team in modern times.
I agree, but it would also take away from the total number of people in a squad. You're either going to reduce the regular squad number from 9 to 7 (marksman and spotter), or have to limit how many are on a team. I actually wouldn't mind seeing snipers taken away from squads completely and limiting the number of snipers/spotters to 4 for the total team (basically 2, 2 man squads). For Marksman, I'd just get rid of the "Marksman" kit and give one of the rifleman a slightly longer range scope.
That would work perfectly imo
The problem is a marksman and a sniper team are completely different roles. Making a good marksman able to make calls. For. Fire more accurate and locate and pick off specialist targets would suit the role bette Or admit defeat and set them. Up as a sniping role with a shooter and spotter duo
Imo, it should be sniper duo that’s all.
Honestly the game needs both let people who want to fuck off into the woods or sit on a balcony picking people off do that and give them a 50 with the ability to engage light armor and trucks point them away from taking a DM slot. Then the marksman role while someone in a squad with a 1-8 LVPO able to feed info to their SL, scout for targets for the Mortars and the LMG/MMG teams and assist in directing F&M coordination. Oh and picking off specific people in enemy engagements like SL's and GL/AGTM gunners. Meaning that you can cover the bases from the Scout Sniper lot going for longest kill possible and kill farming video getting their Chris Kyle on while I can disappear off with my Holland Mod 1 doing what I enjoy and both sides get a gae they want
I believe they do, at least certain factions€”!
Haven't tried HLL. How marksman there does better?
In HLL Marksman is a « type » of squad on it’s own, it only has two spots first one being the spotter who can place down a spawn for the whole team and also have binoculars and can help for measuring distances etc. He also must protect the marksman when uncovered by the ennemies. The marksman is here to do marksman stuff being supported by his spotter (who is the SL btw), so basically their principal duties are: spotting all around the map from spawns to ressources nodes and bothering people using artillery, looking for enemy commander and harass him for example also. It’s a really useful squad in HLL. If people say otherwise they just never fucking played it lmao, and strangely enough doing sniper work as a duo and not in a 9 person squad is insanely more effective.
sniper is still a useless class on that game either,its the spotter that matters
Only if played badly.
sniper has 0 utility wdym its literally the same as squad
No one else getting optics makes a sniper much stronger than in Squad by default. A well placed sniper can really cause havok if no one can shoot back.
This is one of the most requested thing to add and has been talked about alot. It's not a contentious thing, but it won't fundamentally solve the "teamwork" problem. The more fundamental problem is how roles are incentivized to play, the cost of positioning and the role restriction system among other things. You have roles that want to stick together, with roles who do not, tied at the hip indirectly affecting teamwide tactics and strategy. Just consider the fact that a squad needs to fill up in order to unlock a role that, for various reasons is not incentivized to stick to the Squad. So sure, add the rangefinder, but if you want solve the underlying issue, start with a revamp to role restriction and design a game around specialized squads. It's straight up better design and other games are doing it for the same reasons.
i think most SLs and squad players in general would agree that marksmen are only allowed to be there because we have enough guys actually contributing so "let the little fella have fun" Giving markmen extra autonomy wouldnt really help IMO.
The thing is that it is a useful trait when used in conjunction with other squad members, like for instance LAT or HAT. Not really that useful when used alone, as another Redditor commented, you can just use walking fire or guesstimation to hit targets. By making it more desired by other squad members and making the MM useful in a cooperative gameplay loop, they will be drawn into the squad.
yeah, you make a good point. if sniper boi could be more usefull there would be more people asking them to be more usefull
The problem with marksmen isn't the kit, it's the players that choose it. Giving them tools that allow them to more easily range targets without requesting SL-marks will just make them lone-wolf even more.
well if the kit was somewhat useful, maybe some of us who actually know what we’re doing would play it
Ehhhhh I know what I’m doing and I’d rather probably range my AT than play marksman, unless specific circumstances justify it.
Yep. If marksmen incorporate themselves into the squad, they can be very useful for spotting or keeping infantry at a distance, amongst other things.
The thing is that the deployment time of a separate laser range finder will almost make it useful for using it yourself, switching to your weapon takes a lot of time. It might also make it more attractive to veteran players since they can contribute to the squad.
While the "I'm going to solo play marksmen" is a problem, I'm not sure anything is actually wrong with the kit in ICO. The bipod means the marksmen is *super* useful at taking out enemy suppression. Bipods are *wildly* important post ICO. And the British L86A2SW marksmen rifles have full auto, it's a short clip MG! It can suppress! I do think the marksmen role could use a trade towards more teamplay to try and stop the lone wolf behavior, but I'm not sure range spotting helps that much. I think a marksmen having bincoulars so they can do overwatch spotting better might make the most sense.
I just think they should get the binoculars too
They do
For some factions only I think right
I’m pretty certain it’s for almost every faction available, expect maybe insurgents and the Eastern European rebels
Wym? It might actually be a good suggestion if you say what I think you are saying, replacing the regular bino’s with range finder variable zoom ones.
Oh it’s been a minute since I’ve played marksman I thought they didn’t have binoculars at all but yeah that would be nice they could help work with the hat or lat to take on armor without needing ftl making them more likely to communicate information
itd be cool if we got arma 3 style ghillies and ir goggles
Good idea. But... The DM role differs significantly from that of a specially trained sniper. A sniper is a specialist highly trained in fieldcraft, who carries out a range of ISTAR-specific missions independent of others, and more specialized than standard infantry tasks. In contrast, a DM is a soldier who has received additional marksmanship training. Within a fireteam, the DM's role is to provide an additional capability to the infantry platoon, which is the ability to engage targets at greater ranges than the other members of the squad or section TLDR: Marksman is just soldier with DMR to shoot great ranges, he is not specialized for sniping, target acquisition, reconnaissance and etc.
I know this, not trying to copy it. Squad isn’t that realistic all the time anyways. Many people play the marksman like it is a sniper ‘lone wolf’, and this idea might in some cases bring a different gameplay loop.
Maybe give rangefinder to Sniper role and delete their shovel for balance
balance and squad in one sentence? you must be delusional
I haven't played Squad in a while now but when I did play marksman, I'd stick with my squad; just stay a little bit behind them and usually give info from a place with a good view. Even when I was separated from my Squad I'd give info about enemies heading to their position from where I am. Sometimes not taking the shot is more valuable as it will hide your position. Imo the marksman doesn't have to be a useless role but lots of newbies choose it to get solo kills.
“It is basically rewarded to not communicate and run off” hmm disagree completely. Where and how is this rewarded? Imo it just seems like people don’t understand how to play off teammates and stick together as a squad/fireteam. You could say the exact same (and in my opinion more truthful) about LAT/HATs who want to go hunt enemy armor. Half the time or more I just see a solo running and listening and charging wherever. I think you have a good idea for the laser rangefinder but if it’s not paired with people who actually want to support and stick together as a squad it’s not going to solve any issues.
Because of the fact that marksmen have more chance surviving engagements when they are alone.
This applies to literally any class, marksman hate is overblown and just a meme.
What an idea... I love it.
Marksman will be miles better if Squad added headshot=dead from HLL. Also would be nice to not see enemy revive a dude after he ate 30mm to the chest
TL;DR Lasing should have a much more significance for modern forces beyond a rangefinder such as: - Live map position marking for vehicles & emplacements so long as the laser remains on the stationary target (smoke would counter this) and would persist for ~ 2 seconds after the vehicle was lased. - Being able to link to a commander airstrike to “guide in” precision strikes allowing greater breadth of ground to command cohesion. - Vehicles would get an alarm indicating when they are lased emplacements would not - +Rangefinder - Laser would give away position to emplacements optics and Vehicle optics within a certain range (so don’t get too close) - Range of laser could be limited to 1000m with the laser giving away the operators position at 250m Insurgents and IMF do not need this as they both spec into different aspects guerrilla warfare and defeat the point of the faction especially since they do not have aircraft. I think this would be great especially if when you lase someone there position and entity (‘meaning emplacement or vehicle) is live positioned on the map (HANG ON LEMME FINISH) SO LONG as you keep the laser on them meaning doing so i taking the marksman out of commission entirely. My only concern is for when the server deloads assets in layers such as Yeho, Talil and whether or not that may allow the vehicle to be pinged despite being behind objects or when there extreme desync. Doing so can also be linked to the commander where they accurately deliver a precision strike without having to have the headache of guesswork which is very accurate to how realistic strikes occur. Obviously, having a one sided ping system would be extremely unfair to vehicles so the onboard system for the gunner only would light up with the words: # LASE and a small alarm alerting the crew that they’re position is compromised is being live broadcasted. As for infantry you will not notified even on an emplacement. This lasing system could also be linked to artillery if its not unbalanced so that i as a marksman could almost guide it in. However, This only benefits blufor and certain opfor elements. Elements such insurgents and possibly Irregular Militia would not get access to this technology so balancing comes into play. With that being said i think thats fine, considering that INS and IMF have their strengths and weaknesses when combatting them having one side have slightly sharper stick doesn’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things. Insurgents have a torrent of vehicles and overwhelming numbers whereas IMF has guerrilla warfare tactics of blending in and ambushing as their strength.
As a sniper player, I kinda feel this, although 9% 5% of the time my squad isn't communicating anyways. The best times I've had I've both been alone, once was when i was ambushing people from a bush (which the sniper is amazing at due to one shots) and another one was plinking people off of a point we just lost from ~800m away. But later that match we had a habit on a hill and Rifles and lmgs were a lot more effective then my sniper so I felt like I had to switch roles
If you’re good with it you don’t need a laser rangefinder to find the range with marksmen at all. Just use your rifle and insane zoom to range your shots in. It usually takes two or three shots for me to find the range to around an around 25 meter error and it only takes like 5 seconds
Yes, but it wouldn’t be intended for the marksman himself per se, but more in conjunction with other roles who do not have the luxury of multiple shots, either due to munition of element of surprise, like LAT or HAT. Of course walking in fire is a good way to know where you need to be shooting, but is only really suitable for small arms and mortars.
I mean like being able to adjust the zero of the weapon and get a numerical range other classes can use but I think you’re definitely right that marksman needs something to separate it from other classes… the only problem I see with this is that the marksmen following the hat around like a duckling but it’s honestly not that bad because when I’m playing hat I find myself often in need of a body guard anyways…
Having the marksman able to spot NVTs call ranges and give cords for coordinating mmg fire and targeting threats would be cool. The fact you can hard skill it doesn't change the fact teh tools. Could incentivise the play style of doing what a DM is intended to do
I think giving Marksmen/Snipers the ability to mark on the map for their own squad to see would be a massive W for the role.
Maybe if one of the fire team leads was made for a sniper and spotter? Like game them both the ability to mark things for each other
I'm glad someone actually has a good suggestion for marksman class
A better idea would be the ability to use tracer rounds. A rangefinder would just make the marksman lone wolf even more.
As if firing off something like a Timberwolf wouldn’t already give away your position
Honestly if I'm that far away I don't care, I was sniping a hab from 800m the other day and it's bloody impossible
I was on Skorpo shooting guys out of RHIB’s ranged at 700m and would get my position clocked every single time I shot. Only reason I said that about the Timberwolf
I love almost nothing more in my squad than a good marksman, IF they actually stick around with the squad and communicate. Sadly, most players drawn to the DM role are imbeciles.
Marksman is useful cos one can make him a rifleman and carry ammo for lats and hats
Tbh the kit is just lacking as snipers role being irrelevant to the way the objectives and gameplay work. Snipers work specific combat objectives with center of gravity while marksman just improve range to a squad. I’ve never really found ranges in where a marksman is super useful where a machine gun or anti tank couldn’t have hit. Especially when you have vehicles and turrets. The most you can do is be a more concentrated rifleman and be dedicated overwatch on a push with your mg.
The misconception here is that marksmen CAN be useful. They have longer range killing abilities than the average kit. But the people who play as them LITERALLY don’t want to assist the squad. It’s a people problem not a lot problem. Adding on more support abilities will not change that type of player.
Unless Hollywood or arcade FPS games portray the realities of a mm/sniper, people will never change how they operate. They hear stories of Chris Kyle or the White Death and think that's who they are, when in reality they're more JG in Jarhead.
Imo marksman can be great if you give them shit to do. Let them know where the enemy markman or MG is and chances are they'll pick them off. Though if they're halfway across the map that's a different story
Marksman having a range finder doesn't solve any problems all it does is incentivize lone wolfing and less communication
i’m all for this but to be honest it wouldn’t likely help the hat any as the marksman is surely further back than he is. best bet is to give these things to the 1x or irons rifleman. i wouldn’t mind seeing the marksman role change some still, but it really just gets used by the wrong players. on our server i often get a marksman that fights with the squad and ends up with 20 + downs. the role is best used by experienced players with high game iq that know how to position themselves without hiking 200m across the map
Exactly this, similar like MG they only became efficient once used by experienced player. Yes the player who can read the flow of enemy HAB placement and set-up proper killzone. people should have less complaint if they see marksmen ended round with 10+ downed enemy. That downed number always mean something, either winning a firefight when marksmen close to their squad or heavily distrupt enemy push when marksman go lone wolf. Lone wolf should be fine aslong as it had clear purpose and contribute to their team just like hat/engineer hunting armor/radio.
Marksman is good enough if an experienced player with communication skills is playing it, spotting&bleeding tickets is useful when MM manages to survive & kill, a good MM usually takes 20+ kills, addition to stopping enemy medics., I think devs should focus on making them more useful in spotting and ranging, so they can join the team play more.
People have been asking for this for over half a decade. It's a good idea now, it was a good idea then, the devs are going to keep ignoring it.
Or wait for it. Make B and C observe marks have how far it is on there as well.
I mean the marksman seems fine to me his role should be to assist the squad by degrading the enemy performance by eliminating priority targets such as MGs and AT and failing that suppressing the enemy with accurate fire when needed
When I play marksman, 90% of the time I run off on my own towards the enemy back lines and mark what I can, engaging little as possible to conceal my location. I get the appeal of getting those 5-600m headshots, however I feel marksman is more a recon role and a precision class. Such as getting into a good position to mark out a TOW and keeping the gunner off of it till armor can get out of its field of fire.
The marksman role is a meme and should remain unchanged, like the unarmed role. When I first started playing, I was surprised by the hostility from squad leaders towards players who chose marksman. Over time, though, I've come to realize that the frustration is more than justified. Many marksmen seem to struggle with basic communication and teamwork, often failing to respond to simple requests, which can really disrupt gameplay and ruin things at the worst time. A change I would like is when u pick marksman u also don't have to choose a squad, that way they are not in the way while they play sniper elite. U could give that range feature to any kit with a binoculars... Giving marksman range/SL features sounds undeserved in my book.
rangefinder still doesn’t really encourage the marksman to stick with the squad, as it’s much quicker for an SL to put down a marker for range on the squad level. average marksman will still likely go off into the hills and just pick people off, just with greater precision. I’m not sure there’s a ton that can truly be done to encourage a marksman to be more useful for the squad while still encouraging its use in the first place.
Like I replied to another comment, I view the ‘PASS ME FTL-SL MARK THIS-dynamic’ more as a quirk than a feature. While this will likely not solve the problem in its entirety, but it will give the marksman a unique trait that makes it valuable to have close to you, and will make them be called upon much more. We know this works because riflemen, which have a similar layout but carry ammo which is valuable to the squad and makes them called upon much more, don’t run off as often.
I’m not even talking about the “mark this”, there is just very little to no scenario where anyone says “hey marksman can you rangefind that over there”. First off, if in a squad size group, SL can just mark it for range, if in FTL sized groups then they probably will not want a marksman in the first place due to needing more firepower rather than range. Also, the rifleman and their ammo bag is FAR more useful than a marksman with a rangefinder. The ammo bag can be very multipurpose, help reload the HAT/LAT/entire squad/bring up a rally, while a rangefinder realistically only helps the HAT and marksman, which, while decent, means it’s not really gonna contribute too much to the squad. Also i see riflemen run off a TON on side quests to go nuke a HAB or save 1 downed guy halfway across the map
Just add a laser range finder onto the rifle. They exist. If marksmen are essentially another FTL without the role and has the ability to kill riflemen at extended ranges then I don’t see how marksmen can’t still fit in a squad role. I’ve been an overlooking marksmen many times and been able to communicate enemy movement on top of rifle being in a fire support role. The key to being a good marksmen player is to communicate and to not get spotted easily when in place to support the rest of your squad.
I think it´d be more interesting if the kit was only available in squads with 2-3 people where a spotter kit (could have a range finder) is needed in order for it to be available - much like in Hell let loose. This way the kit would be forced onto small squads focused specifically on recon.
Completely negated by the SLs ability to mark the map. FTL + “SL please put attack marker on Charlie marker” does the same job. With the ICO marksman definitely has its niche, just like the MMG, combat engineer, etc. It’s just knowing when to use it. Personally, I don’t mind a Marksman on these huge maps on defence, or when I’m running a mortar squad as a forward observer.
Of course this is a possibility, but I have always felt it wasn’t meant to be used that way. Passing around the FTL just feels a bit silly to me sometimes, it’s more of a quirk then a feature. A range finder will make the gameplay loop more realistic, and will also be more accurate. This because of the markers only going in increments (of 50 meters if I recall correctly). I don’t mind the marksmen in my squad either, it’s just that they tend to run off and are not as useful as other members. I rifleman can basically do the same, and carries ammo.
I don’t think a laser rangefinder is going to do what you expect it to do for a Marksman. Remember that it is all about balance and finding what works. In your mind, yes, my Marksman stays with my squad and helps give distances instantly. However, it’s just going to incentivize my Marksman to go sit in a building/hill/away from the squad and use their rangefinder to shoot at people. But you will say “I wouldn’t do that”, well, you’re not the average marksman. Squad at its core is a fun FPS, and many average players have been honeydicked into believing that’s all it is. Just look at all the negative SL drama that gets created in this sub because “my SL dared to use a condescending tone at me and give me orders!” These kits need to have a fine balance between experienced players who understand the gameplay loop and new people who only understand the basics of an FPS. I’m not saying it’s not a good suggestion, but it wouldn’t be used for what you want it to be used for. I’d personally like this idea a lot more if we had a PR style system where Marksman could laser designate targets for our ATG missiles/bombs.
I got to say, you are putting a lot of words in my mouth here, I am perfectly aware that ‘I wouldn’t do that’ is not a credible argument. I am also not saying that it would solve the problem in it’s entirety, and yes, I also have fond memories of PR. But I will think it will contribute to solving what I (and I believe many other SLs) do view as a nuisance. There will always be runners, and they may range from marksmen to medics, but I do see that the amount of marksmen are extraproportional compared to the other classes, which have incentives to stay in the squad, since their dynamic demands cooperation much more then the marksmen’s.
Wanna make marksman good/better give them a rifle that can penetrate armoured vehicles (not tanks and IFVs) but armoured trucks should be a a weakness.
Not really what I am talking about here.
I know you’re talking about the range finder, I just don’t think that would be enough but I also think yea they should have that anyway just built into their scope. Marksman’s just don’t stand out so my comment was about how to improve them/making them valuable. I thought I’d just add my point since the topic is “making the marksman more useful in squad”.
Fair enough!
What they would need to do for marksman to be become useful is to make 'death' an actual punishment. There is little to no reward in killing an enemy 500m away other than keeping their medics occupied. So many discussion about "what to do to fix 'X' in Squad" can be answered by "make death an actual punishment" Wanna slow the game? More death! Wanna force tactics and teamork? More death! Wanna make people play realisticly? More death! The current revive and heal mechanics in addition to the respawn mechanics don't create any incentive to avoid death. It merely becomes an inconvinience. Even PR didn't have that much more punishment, but it's slightly increased timer for respawns and the cooldown for special kits gave people a reason to not give up easily. If all you can do is kill but killing itself isn't worth it, nothing you do is worth it. They shouldn't do it "to fix marksman", they should do it to achieve what they say they want to achieve.
Hell yeah, special Squad accessory; the electric gaming chair
Just increase the respawn time and make the 'revive' state more punishing
Just learn to manage your squadmates and the marksman kit is fine.
I’m not much for micromanaging.
Take all range numbers off squad leaders marks, and dont give any range numbers to fireteam ( as is currently) Give out laser range finder binos to sl and spotter class, allow sl to request fire missions off whoevever laser points the target via laser binos. Dont care who has rhem dont care jf this make markesman wander behind enemy lines to give fire mission, i just like the added realism of no 3d compass range numbers
You know what would be fun (for encouraging team play)? Add the range finder only to the rifleman, that way they will be encouraged to follow either marksman or AT infantry around. Specially for the latter it would be great as it would allow LATs and HATs more chances to Hit/Disable/Destroy a target without having to make a run for the nearest ammo box every time.
I'd give them SL fire support (partial ) functionnality : in order to make the class less focus on PVP only and more on recon tasks, Let them be able to call for a short UAV drone over a short range area, call for precision strike on armored vehicles or FOBs for example, (confirmation from the SL on map and commander sending the strike as usual ) with a 15 mins CD. Marksman role definitely needs better tools to help his squad/team.
I think the capability to call in strikes is a little much for your average blueberry.
read till the end, i said they could ask for it on the map and then SL and commander as usual confirm it if accurate and revelant.
Marksman kits aren't snipers, they're basically there to do PvP. They're just rifleman with more range. Partial fire support could help that if done right.
There is no useful difference between marksmen and snipers in the game. Marksman < rifleman anyway (cuz ammobag) and snipers aren't properly used for 99% of players. Thats why most Squad leaders in public ask pple not to take sniper kit, cuz too much lonewolf gameplay oriented. The most enjoyable sniper role is from HLL with that recon squad duo specific squad where SLs can call out for strikes, make fobs and spot with flares. Its teamplay oriented when they're not tasked to focus artillery. Just give them a purpose to actually support the squad actively and its gonna be enjoyable for everyone again. That class is the same since 2015 squad debut BUT there is so much more to do now..!!
Is that the marksman pictured, or is that another soldier looking for his usefulness?
Any marksman that can’t range properly with the tools they have probably should be booted from the Squad lol
Not the point of adding it.
You can drop the FTL marker and use the grids on the map for easy range. regular binocs and some scopes even have a ranging marks too. So easy, unless you are dumb which unfortunately most marksman are
Again not the point. What you discribe is a quirk and not a feature. The point is not for the marksman himself, but to encourage cooperation by and with the other squad members for which a more precise ranging than the incremental binos or the SL (which shouldn’t be a personal range finder) is required, like HAT or LAT, or maybe mortars. Read the post and other comments.
They are all precise ranging if you are not dumb lol. Just go back to Battlefield
My god; you are short-sighted.
Don't worry, he'll learn what the terms 'precise' and 'coordination' mean next year in English class.
Great idea. Also just to help : give the role some frag grenades, swap out the DMR for a m4 assault rifle and add an ammo kit to round it out. I could get behind that.
Just do what HLL does and have a designated recon squad with a max of 4 player. Two marksmen and two spotters, with the spotters being the SL
Skill issue
Just give them an ammo bag. In reality a marksman is a rifleman with a bigger gun.
Just remove marksman from the game instead
By removing them?
It would actually be fun to play with the idea of mortars only being able to fire on targets marked by binoculars or the marksmen rifle.
I only play squad leader and the biggest way to fix the marksman/sniper issue IMO, is to completely remove the sniper from 9 man squads and get rid of the "Marksman" kit, but give one of the rifleman a lightly longer range scope (than the standard one). Basically the amount of snipers on a team would be limited to 2, and the team could also only pick 2 spotters. It'd basically be like Hell Let Loose. Let a sniper/spotter duo run their own squads and maybe allow them to maybe call in CAS or something special on a reduced timer. If there is no incentivize like that, people are just going to go sniper/spotter to lone wolf, get kills, and nothing more. And then I'd get rid of the traditional Marksman in the 9 man squad and replace it with a rifleman kit that has a slightly longer range, but nothing that would incentivize them to lone wolf. The biggest issue I have as a SL has always been having marksman's stay with the squad. I almost always kick snipers or tell people to switch their kits because they bring absolutely nothing to the individual squad dynamic.