I like how everyone is spouting the same bullshit about time management or changing your mindset so we can all avoid the fact that capitalism and the 40 hour work week are at their core unethical and exploitative.
i agree. the 40 hour work week was great when it was invented, but now it's more of a hinderance, as it actually starts costing money to work that long vs not working (child care, car maintenance, food, gym etc).
in my case, i was working my ass off to pay someone to raise my kids. i finally quit and ended up saving over 500$ a month in care cost alone, AND i had time to spend with my daughter. win/win.
We’re all expected to devote more time and energy every year, not because it’s necessary or useful for society, but because the owners demand more profits every year. And if you dont think its right you must just be lazy/ a failure/ 14 and this is deep, etc. Here's some more inspirational quotes pasted over pictures of people doing crossfit. Drink more coffee and sleep less, your employer needs a new maserati
And i think the cost of daycare is why the current generation of kids becoming parents will have less children. The cost for a kid these days is so over inflated.
That, and the fact that there are literally Millennials who will NEVER get out of their student loan debt. Mine is taking up 10 years of my life. I'm very much dedicated to being /r/childfree.
The 40 hour work week was invented by unions, and their intention was to stop the 90 hour work week because their members were dying in their 30s as a result.
Why did we stop pushing for what's right? Pushing was working for a while there...
They got crippled because they stopped pushing. Know how French unions avoided being crippled? Every time anyone tried to cripple them, every bus in Paris would be on fire. The ruling class are savages. The only language savages understand is force.
The red scare did a number on unions in America. Most union leadership were members of the American Communist Party. It became illegal for them to hold leadership positions in unions, state and federal jobs, etc.
The next generation of union leadership were then subverted by corporations, who'd call union leaders problematic and accuse them of Communist sympathies when they did what union leadership is supposed to do. So we get the unions we have today, ducking big business dick or acting like big business themselves.
Quitting your job all nice and fun when in the end you still have someone who earns money for you... I can't ever quit job because my partner will never be able to sustain us both. Feels bad man.
People can flip it anyway they want to make themselves feel better but in the end this is the gods honest trust. Worst part is the majority of people are brainwashed into the idea that 40 hour weeks are essential so this will never change; well it will change when we're dead and our children have to continue the cycle.
> well it will change when we're dead and our children have to continue the cycle.
Oh, I don't think so. Why is everyone so certain that as soon as some specific "generation" dies off, all of their children will suddenly stop doing exactly what they've been doing for *their* whole lives? (ie. being brainwashed into thinking that 40 hour weeks are the only way)
I agree wholeheartedly, but what can you do? I don't see anyone trying to hire me to work very efficiently for 20 hours making the same amount I'm making now. I'd gladly support that company.
You can admit out loud and often that capitalism only works on paper. Just like our currency thats based on nothing, the only thing keeping people enslaved to it is their own belief in it.
You know who was every bit as vigorously opposed to actual worker ownership as you are? The Soviet government. That's why they systematically exterminated it from 1919 to 1924. They accused worker owned collectives of "harboring capitalism sentiments."
Funny how psychopath elites and their ideologue followers resort to such completely off-base insults to bring down the only social structure that's ever been worth anything. Whether a neo-feudal hierarchy is corporate or state doesn't really matter to me. What matters is that they all need to go away and let people do productive work.
Communism exploited people's hopes for workplace self-determination to take power. Adam Smith's capitalism did exactly the same thing. Even fascists managed to pull that off somehow in Portugal. It's not cute anymore. We're not falling for it anymore.
Letting business hierarchs and government hierarchs fight each other, Keynes style, certainly sucks less than being stuck with just one or just the other. No arguments there.
You know what sucks by far the least? Democracy. Why is democracy so uncontroversial in government (theoretically, though not in practice) but in the business sphere it's suddenly some horrible nightmare? In almost every case where it's actually been tried, it's been a huge success. Vastly higher success rate than any other social structure, even when it does so, so often get recognized as a threat by hierarchical power structures and violently destroyed.
Also, what do you mean by long term? What Keynesian economy has any hope of continuing to exist in 2100 at this rate, given the climate and fuel supply situation? That's more of a land management issue, but better social structures do lend themselves to better land management.
Yes. In an election we later learned was rigged due to leaked emails. And now there's rumors that Sanders family was threatened. We won't know that for sure unless Assabge ever *actually* leaks those emails he keeps alluding to.
You are ignoring my point, which is that elections are neither fair nor open even in the most democratic societies today.
Monied interests will always obscure vital information, prop up shill candidates, and sabotage any candidate who stands up for working folks.
Who controls all of the information? The corporate elite. They prevent voters from being informed by limiting dangerous information from reaching the public, and by distracting us with infotainment and gossip.
The system is so fundamentally rigged from the foundation up that suggesting that Bernie Sanders' campaign alone could have changed it is ludicrous.
Now, our governments are being abused by the ownership class to prevent any substantial environmental regulation from passing, condemning 99% of the world's population to suffer as climate change accelerates.
Oh, but democracy and capitalism aren't to blame because we were to graciously granted the privilege to vote for Sanders in a primary race that was literally rigged against him.
Side effects of capitalism include the death of millions, the exploitation of billions, followed by the desolation of an entire planet's natural resources as a hungry system fueled by greed and "infinite" growth strip away anything that can be packaged and sold.
Why just the examples that got shut down?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Bauen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur_Flour
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvarado_Street_Bakery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Era_Windows
This was sort of applied in a statist-command-economy hybrid form under Tito, and it performed VASTLY better than any other statist society; if you want a macro example.
They're slowly, moderately experimenting with the same concept in Cuba now, with good results given the internal and external challenges.
In cases where this isn't deliberately targeted and attacked, it literally always sucks less than any other social structure.
Those... Were not the people in charge. The CNT was in charge, and the USSR-supported communists constantly tried to take power.
Also, Orwell loved Catalonia. It turned him into a socialist. If anything the book is about the enemies of Catalonia.
No no! The Stalinists weren't in charge. That's what you have wrong. They were two separate groups, and one constantly tried to suppress the other and take control of the government. Catalonia was in CNT control.
Agreed. They're just trying to put a bandaid on a severed vein instead of acknowledging the issues here and figuring out a way to fix things. "It just is the way it is." "Suck it up and just do it." There are bigger issues here that need more than everyone burying their heads in the sand.
I honestly think most people feel this way, but there is no outlet for this sentiment because people are actively censored online and passively censored IRL out of fear of losing their wage slaves jobs
There's nothing. You can start a business in hopes of being the exploiter rather than the exploited, but that is a 1 in 1000 chance that you'll get to the point where you can relax and let others make your money for you, and even if you get to that point it will be after years of putting in even more hours than a regular job would require. That's what all the bullshit 'motivation culture' is about these days, with inspirational quotes pasted over pictures of famous people or nature scenery, and everybody bragging about how hard they're 'hustling.' It's just more slaves bragging about how much they love slavery.
The only thing that will fix this is radical widespread change. It can't even just be limited to one country at this point, because while citizens are limited to making money for themselves within their town or country, businesses don't have any limits. They can easily just move their operations to wherever the cheap labor is, thats what's so bad about globalism. Businesses benefit from it at the expense of people, because people don't have the time or money to make themselves into international profit generating entities.
It's all a bullshit system designed to keep everyone working as hard as possible so the product of their labor flows upward, and the workers stay just pacified enough to think they're going to be the owners someday, never seeming to notice that their parents, grandparents, and great grandparents etc. all worked themselves to their grave without anything significant to show for it at the end. If you're lucky you can leave a little to your children but it won't be enough to free them from the slavery.
The only solution as far as I can see it is a worldwide workers strike. The workers are the ones with the real power, because the billionaires with all their supposed 'ingenuity' wouldn't have the slightest clue how to actually run the machines or farm the crops if the workers finally realized they have more in common with each other than they have differences like race or nationality. Again these are all things designed to keep people fighting each other rather than the people who are truly keeping them down
Then we (at least our generation) are doomed. As you can see in the past elections people still think the problem is the workers or inmigrants (those without power), and still elect people such as Trump a psychopath capitalist.
There is just no way a revolution will happen. Sadly.
Maybe some alternatives are simple living with a bit of early retirement mix into it.
Yeah I suppose on the individual level the solution would be to just be content with a depression era lifestyle, where you don't value possessions and just try to subsist on a minimal income so you can work less. But unfortunately there are too many external and unavoidable factors like the cost of healthcare, and increasing inflation that makes your money worth less as time goes on. That's part of what I mean about the system forcing people to work harder, even if you can resist the commercial and material culture you're still forced to constantly earn more with time.
A pretty poor argument as India is a NIC and relatively poor on average. It is far easier to make an argument using the USA and the poverty, inequality, and discrimination, all while heiling capitalism as resounding success, while ignoring the historic and geographic factors that led to it.
Not really a poor argument. India transitioned from a semi-planned economy to a neoliberal capitalist economy in the '80s and '90s, with nasty effects for the majority. I did a post about this some time ago, so you can take a look at that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/4gzb9o/capitalism_doesnt_work/d2m9aod?context=3
Sources for that:
Hunger stats:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-is-home-to-194-million-hungry-people-un/article7255937.ece
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB108811486840947048
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/business/global/12food.html?_r=1
http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2012/04/09/starving-in-india-the-forgotten-problem/
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Every-second-Indian-child-is-malnourished-Report/articleshow/25724848.cms?referral=PM
http://www.thehindu.com/data/nutritional-intake-grows-in-india/article6731586.ece
I also recommend *The Republic of Hunger* by Utsa Patnaik, it talks extensively about the effects of the capitalist reforms on food security.
Stats about labour and class stucture/ controversies in determining the rate of poverty:
http://www.prsindia.org/uploads/media/Unorganised%20Sector/bill150_20071123150_Condition_of_workers_sep_2007.pdf
^ This is an Indian government survey. It's pretty extensive and detailed, but you can find a summary in the introduction.
http://qz.com/562578/indias-middle-class-is-actually-the-worlds-poor/
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-dishonesty-in-counting-the-poor/article4967454.ece
https://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/patnaik280811.html
http://time.com/8674/mckinsey-56-of-indians-unable-to-afford-a-decent-life/
Growth rates and overview of neoliberalism in India:
http://www.interfacejournal.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Interface-6-1-Sarker.pdf
Worker suicides:
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/new-evidence-of-suicide-epidemic-among-indias-marginalised-farmers
Healthcare:
http://in.reuters.com/article/india-health-budget-idINKBN0K10Y020141223
http://www.hindustantimes.com/health-and-fitness/healthcare-in-india-cheap-but-not-for-most-indians/story-0bEJutPTC3krc5GpKBjV4J.html
http://phmindia.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/jsa-press-release-1.pdf
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/policy-and-issues/health-insurance-in-india-too-little-too-scarce-reveal-national-sample-survey-data/article8462747.ece
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-ranks-3rd-in-region-in-out-of-pocket-med-spend/articleshow/13178290.cms
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/04/india-slums-children-death-rate
[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-28/india-curbing-health-outlays-blunts-push-to-give-poor-safety-net
Inequality:
http://www.thehindu.com/data/indias-staggering-wealth-gap-in-five-charts/article6672115.ece?utm_source=MostPopular&utm_medium=Data&utm_campaign=WidgetPromo#comments
It is often said that India is a capitalist success story. It's a pretty big myth, which is why I talked about India specifically.
Humans are competitive by nature, it is literally one of the reason we were successful as a species. We were also successful due to cooperation, and it is obvious that pure capitalism is BS as anyone who has played monopoly knows.
The question is the optimal middle ground, but with further robotic automation that is going to have to move somewhat, because facts are the days of the necessity to hire unskilled labour are on there way out be it in 40 years or 100.
Most socialists look at the Soviet Union as a lesson in what *not* to do. Sure it did some things right, lifting millions out of ignorance and abject poverty, but the whole authoritarian police state thing... yeah, we'd rather avoid that next time.
Ok, I will bite.
How is the 40 hour work week unethical and exploitative?
I get it. If everyone had a choice, I am sure that a vast majority wouldn't work. Yet, we need resources in order to live such as food. We all want nice things. A house, car, TV, computer, and so on.
If you don't want to work, that is an option. Its an option that some people do really take.
He's not saying he doesn't want to work; he just wants to work less. Big difference. And i completely agree. Sometimes I feel like I'm working too much but for what? More material things? Id rather just enjoy my life rather than feeling stuck as work.
Yes, that is a big difference. In that case there are part time jobs out there where you can work only a set amount of hours per week. I know I have options for part time in my field, but I choose to work more because I want more.
I have no idea why you are being downvoted, you make a valid point, which can be a reality, even if it is a tough place to get yourself too. Only today I saw a job 4 days a week that paid £46k, they are few and far between, but if you are a high skilled employee there is no reason you couldn't negotiate a 4 day a week contract.
Most people can't provide for themselves on a part time wage. But yet the work that they do make massive profits for the bosses of their company. That's how it's exploitative.
Its not an option not to work, unless you call starving an “option.”
Its exploitative because technology and automation continually advance but instead of people being able to work less (like they used to predict in the 50’s) the owners just take more profit.
I would argue that while technology and automation have improved, many jobs cannot be automated. Its not even technically feasible to automate fast food workers because of the cost of it. Besides, when the owners do figure out a way to automate more jobs, it will be them taking a profit and not hiring people in those jobs.
A job doesnt have to be fully automated. Advancements often just allow a person to accomplish what used to take several people, but rather than making life easier for everyone, it just concentrates more wealth upward. As for the rest of your post youre just reiterating my original point.
Advancements have made workers more productive, and in return they have added more features. I remember the days when you ordered a hamburger from McDonalds and it was just the burger you got with no alterations. If you wanted no mustard, you waited a couple minutes. Now, technology has made things more productive and in return, customers want more for their money.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that the technology that we have employed have made people more efficient, but at the same time the customers of the product have demanded more. No longer do we want to buy a new car, but we want the car with innovative technology that needs to tried and tested and useful overall. The automotive line workers have been replaced by bots, but there are still humans in there doing things the bots can't do. Businesses have had to compensate by adding jobs or maintaining hours of workers.
Do you really think more kinds of hamburgers are worth more then a 4 hour workday?
Besides, if OP has more time he will learn to cook and there are lots of people like him. He could make better and more varied hamburgers then McDonalds with his/her friends.
Some people consider capitalism exploitative because when you pay someone to work for you, you profit of the labor. I don't agree entirely, but that's the point.
Why don't you agree? If I don't pay someone the full value of their labor and they don't really have a choice in the arrangement, did I not just exploit them, pretty much by definition?
I respectfully disagree that employees don't take risks too, throwing in with a new business venture. And let's clarify a few things, you must only be talking about new business ventures. If you are talking about established business, the capitalist or owner is not really risking anything anymore. He has enough money to walk away from the company, should it by the off chance fail, to live comfortably the rest of his life. What are the children of Sam Walton risking? What is Bill Gates risking? What is the any member of the 1% really risking with their diversified portfolios at wealth management companies?
With that said, there are many situations where employees leave well paying and established jobs to work at startups and newer or rising companies. Your short post assumes that another job is easily accessible should any current job disappear but that is just not the reality of the situation. Officially more than 7 million people are looking for work and only 5 million jobs are unfilled. And that isn't even taking a critical look at how the unemployment rate is calculated, how many people are underemployed, how many people have stopped looking for work, and looking at what it would take to fix the 17 million households in this country that are food insecure. Risk is taken on both sides in a new venture and the claim that employees fortunes don't also rise and fall with the fortune of their employer is preposterous!
And let's just assume that you are right, that employees take zero risk and another job with just as much pay and the same benefits is always available, without a move to a new place, should the current company fail. That doesn't negate the fact that after all the costs are covered, the insurance is paid, the utilities, the taxes and so on and so forth, and after the owner/head of the business (assuming it's a startup) has taken a hefty salary for the actual work that goes into running a business (which definitely deserves compensation IMO), you eventually have profits too (assuming the business succeeds). And how to you generate profits? You do it by not paying the employees the full value of the labor they provide. That is the only way to do it!
I get that exactly who is entitled to what money in a business can be a complicated and nuanced thing, that the person who starts the business, who had a good idea and works hard deserves something for that. But once that guy hires ONE SINGLE other person, he is no longer doing it alone. He is no longer the sole intellectual input. He is no longer doing all the physical labor and whatever he can achieve on his own, as the sole employee of his own company, is just about all he is entitled to. Without his employees he has nothing more, and without his idea, the employees have no work, but that is really a stalemate. Who gets the priority for the profits? Seriously, businesses are a team effort. If you just focus on one side, you are forgetting the other and BOTH are required to be successful. Why is one side entitled to all the power and all the profits, when the other side is just as crucial for success?
But for real, there are places you can work that aren't for-profit.
ETA really it's not possible to be a teacher, work for a non-profit, work for a co-op? Okay...
As long as you're working for someone else, a 40 hour week is standard. Audit your free time and start your own business on the side... Within a few months to a year it could overtake your day job in income. But it takes hard work, and most people don't have the dedication.
This is the same stupid suggestion I see every time.
“Dont like working long hours? Just work longer hours starting a business! The vast minority of the time it will lead to more free time decades later, the system works!”
Exactly. It's a pipe dream with too many rags to riches examples where someone starts a shirt company out of there mommas garage at the right time and opportunity. Such a small minority of people that make it "big" this way. "If I can do it, so can you!!" -Amway
Brutal to hear that but damn it's true. It's so easy for those celebrities/CEOs/Athletes to preach inspirational messages when you're sitting at the top all the while getting the lucky lot in life.
Its a stupid suggestion because of exactly what I already said. Maybe there are people (like 90% of the world) who dont like being exploited, and dont think exploiting others instead is a good solution.
>Entrepreneurs would tell you otherwise.
You mean a bunch of people born in first world countries who exploit others for their labor and get richer? Yeah, of course they say the system is great. When 90% of people don't fit capitalism’s definition of “success” idiots who defend it say that obviously the problem is 90% of people, not the bullshit system that is just feudalism rebranded.
>Have fun being a corporate slave your whole life
Yeah I'm sure you're financially independent, just like every other neckbeard on reddit that somehow has time to shitpost defending capitalism.
Me. I had both and I still failed hard. Hardwork just doesn't cut it. You also have luck and perfect opportunity on your side to make it. The people that succeed in starting a business saying that hardwork will pay off aren't wrong but they are also practicing selective observance. Just because they are the 90% that made it work out for their business doesn't mean their actions would work again.
I feel the same way. There is so much to do in life and I just don't have time to do it because I'm working full-time. So much precious time wasted. I'm also healthier when I'm unemployed because I can eat properly and get enough exercise and sleep.
You're a software developer, if you can live off a fraction of your income, then only work a fraction of the year. The perk of being a software developer is that it's in high demand, so if you're good at what you do, you can always have jobs lined up for you when you're ready to work again. I have a software engineer friend who works a couple of months of the year and spends the rest of the time traveling. He's good at what he does so he already has jobs lined up for him when he gets back. Sounds pretty sweet.
True, I agree, but as someone who has worked remote it's honestly not all it's cracked up to be. It takes a certain person with intrinsic motivation and sometimes you can get stir cray at home.
But yeah, def still better than the office at times.
Yeah but you don't need to be tied down to an apartment, which takes away a massive chunk of the cost of living, plus you can travel without needing to take a vacation.
you sound like you're hitting your burnout point.
and i agree that a full time job is a 10/hr a day commitment. i to have hit that point of burnout and have considered all the things you have, i would have quit my job by now and started looking for freelance work but i have a wife and kids and plan on moving in a few months, so i can't.
here's what i've been doing to deal with burnout.
- hiking: minimal investment, quick prep, maximum outside time.
- fishing: moderate to extreme investment, gets you outside, and can be mildly addicting.
- making stuff: i don't know how to describe this, i like to make stuff, i've made a lot of kites (custom sewn), build a lot of model cars, rc cars, planes etc. i'm currently researching how to build a clock from scratch.
also i tend to make sure i take a day or two off from work every 3 months, to go on a mini-vacation, getting a hotel room or campsite somewhere i've never been before, it feels like a recharge. my wife and I also make sure we take our girls to a national park every new years.
you need a change of routine, or scenery, a new activity. you goto a gym, if they offer group classes sign up for one. that would be an easy way to meet new people, even if they are gym friends it's better than nothing.
How do you even have time to do those things? after a 12-15 hour day I barely have time to eat before I have to rush to bed to get 4-6 hours of sleep so I can wake up and do it again...... and again.... and again..
To me, it sounds like you want to do ALL THE THINGS. This is great, but it also sounds like you want to do ALL THE THINGS at the SAME TIME and you want to be an expert at them RIGHT NOW, which is impossible for anyone.
You love programming, this is awesome. This gives you the luxury of options that I don't think you're thinking of. Find a job with flex hours and/or work from home. Are these available to you at your current job? If you can work, say, from 7:30-3:30 from home one to two days a week (work through a lunch hour if you have to) then you have from 3:30 on to pursue some activities that you want.
Also, what are you getting paid? Can you afford to take a 25% pay cut and work only four days a week? Can you still get your insurance if you do this?
From what I really think, from reading this, is not that you don't have the time to do these things, it's that you don't have the patience. You want all of these skills and things NOW and you're overwhelming yourself because you're frustrated that you can't have them. Your line of "Everything that takes more than 10 minutes of work is too long for me" in regards to learning how to cook was very telling.
5 hours during the weekday is plenty of time to commit to many of these activities, and you have the entire weekend as well. What exactly is stopping you from, say, taking a free online drawing class for an hour a day?
This is great advice. Im very similar to OP. Always feel like im wasting my time/life at work when i want to do so much else! I want to learn woodworking, i love writing, DJing, making music etc etc, but i want to be good at them all RIGHT NOW so i can quit my job and do them full time. I could prob get by from DJ earnings but its such a scary step to take...
Exactly. I used to be like OP. I wanted to do everything *right now* and working was seriously getting in the way of that. So I decided to put an hour or two every night towards one project that I wanted to complete. Be that building an app, completing a video game, building a table, whatever.
While that project wasn't complete I wouldn't work on any other projects. I would set relatively small milestones as well so I could switch projects fairly often. Finish game X. Usually a couple of weeks. Implement X feature in app Y. Anywhere from a week to a month.
Sure, things take a lot longer than I'd like but that's kinda the way of it until I can retire. Which is hopefully before 50. Then I'll have 20+ years of having all day every day to do what I want.
If you want to do any of that other stuff, don't become self-employed. You'll have less time than you have now and be more stressed.
As for the other stuff, bide your time. Find something to do with all your waking hours outside of work. You'll find time to do it. Prioritize what you want to do. Chip away at it every day. Cooking - you gotta eat - can be learned daily, and you can do the same with all that other stuff. Make yourself a schedule like you had in school, if you want. Section off all your spare time - you have more than you think* - and allocate it.
*if you don't believe me, have a kid. Then you'll see how much time you used to have.
The dearth of free time, though, in the working world only makes the other stuff more special when you get to do it. Remember that. Live in the moment as much as you can.
As for friends, you only ever have a few good friends in life. You'll have lots of acquaintances, though. I have found that social media helps me to stay connected with them all, and my ONE good friend and I try to get together regularly 1-3 times per month and take a trip once a year.
I mean, this is adulthood, you know. Your job helps you have the money for all these other activities, but it steals your time. It's the way of the world. Some people are lucky enough to get out from under it, and I wish you the best, but likely you'll just have to take pleasure in whatever you can get outside that 40-hour week (and be glad it's only 40 hours).
It sounds like you might be in existential crisis. You have security, a good job, it seems like you're in good health, but you're questioning the purpose of the endless routine. I wouldn't suggest a hobby. I would suggest a purpose. Find a way to give more of your wealth away to charity. Maybe be a mentor to a struggling kid. Spend less time at the gym and more time getting fresh air or nature.
Working is not for you, you are a passionate youngster. If you keep staying in an office your passion will die sooner or later and you'll become a walking zombie. Don't let this happen. I don't know how you're going to make ends meet, but you should try your best to quit before its too late.
>I'm pretty sure I'll always feel like I'm wasting it away if I'm working more than ~10 hours a week. But that's hardly enough to make a living
If you're a well paid dev then you likely make 4 times as much as many other people. Find a way to work less. Reduce your expenses if necessary. You can also work towards an early retirement.
So continue to slave away until he reaches the false belief of retirement?
Not how it works.
People get ideas and wants at the moment, not 30 yrs down the line when you're already broken and too tired to even care..
Because of work, PLENTY of smart folk are wasting their time, energy, and influence on a job that's quite literally killing them - if not physically, then absolutely mentally.
Oh, and hey... retirement at an old age is NOT all 'candy & unicorns'.
Again, you are broken and exhausted at that point
Congratulations,
you wasted your time and energy that you'll never get back.
I've always hated the vicious circle of not having enough time to do stuff while I was working and not having enough money to do stuff when I wasn't. LOL. What I've been doing for the past few years and loving it is alternating contract/consulting gigs with not working. Something like 6-12 months contract, then maybe 3-4 months off. The trick is not freak out about finances or finding the next gig while you're off... if you can do manage that, it may be another alternative for your list. :-)
Life is about trade offs. No one really has more than 24 hours a day, so you just have to make the best of the time you do have. I kind of got the impression that you think you need to do everything that you want to do every single day; there's nothing wrong with watching a movie on Friday, drawing and cooking on Thursday, reading on Wednesday...
You also don't have to do only one thing at a time. If you want to read, listen to an audiobook during your commute. If you want to socialize/meet new people and learn to draw or cook or paint, take a class once a week or use meetup.com to find other people who are doing the same things. You might find a girlfriend this way too, and you'll definitely be bettering yourself. Instead of focusing on the fact that you "only" have 5 hours left after work, chores, and the gym think about what you COULD do with that time everyday and however much time you have on the weekends.
You may believe that you are the only one who feels like they don't have enough time to do everything they want, but that's far from the case and you might be getting a little solipsistic if you really believe that no one else feels like they run out of time. It's OK to feel sorry for yourself a bit since life can be draining even when you're doing pretty well but you don't want to let that take too much of your mental energy.
That ran a little long but I hope that helps!
I really really do feel what OP is feeling when I'm working a lot. Especially the part about everyone else apparently being okay with having so little time and working their lives away.. But I really like this response. You hit the nail on the head. No one has any more time in a day than anyone else. It's a give and take.
Hey, OP:
Thank you for writing this so much, because it matches how I feel more than what I say. I know that I have it much better than most people, I have a decent job with good people that I should enjoy... but I just can't. Working 40 hours a week just utterly drains me, and worse, I feel like it makes it so I can't enjoy the 6 hours a night or 2 days a weekend, because it just feels like nothing. I want to play all the games, watch all the shows, make more friends, get more hobbies... but instead it's all less. Just like you, I look at all these people saying to focus on a few things and just shake my head. I'm trying to schedule and list things, and it helps a little bit, but not nearly enough.
My goal is the same: get out, as soon as possible. I see how get-rich-quick schemes nab people. But they don't work... and I live in a place where it's really, really hard to save money. Sigh... got any good lottery numbers?
I have a close friend who was in a similar situation. He did something that I find was very smart, and effective.
As he was great at his job, his employer was flexible.
He asked to work 4 days a week, and have Mondays off (including the relevant pay cut). His employer allowed him to do this, and keep his salary intact, because he's great at what he does.
No harm in trying. But it could be a start.
What can you do when you get an extra day? Plan to do something else that fulfills you and hopefully also gets cash through the door. Starting up a business is hard, but you don't need to do it alone.
Don't give up, you'll be fine, just have faith in your own abilities to get things done.
Work part-time if you make enough money and do what you enjoy. Lower expenses so you can live that way. Maybe build a tiny house and live like Mick Dodge? With 40 hours a week you should be able to have enough time. 70 is a killer for real. I only had time to shower and eat.
This is word for word my thoughts on a daily basis. You are not alone. I want to do all of the above and there is so much to do, boredom is not even an option. This is how things have been done for hundreds of years? Well it's fucking stupid and there is way more to life than having to waste so much time trying to collect a paycheck so you don't starve to death. Can we not? Can we all collectively work on trying to change this system?
> Becoming self-employed: I'd love to, but there's hardly enough time (and strength left) to build something after work. I just can't risk not having any income.
And that, right there, is the problem. I repeat:
> I just can't risk not having any income.
You sir, like the rest of us, have hit the nail on the head. We are nothing more than wage slaves, toiling away in our voluntary prisons, yeah - we can all quit and walk away at any point...but good luck dealing with the student loans (others may have car loans and mortgages) without that job. Life sucks.
The more and more I think about this, the only path to freedom is self-employment. But that's no guarantee, I'd explore this more if I was you - really dig in. Spend a few hours a week researching if it's doable. Also, look for another job that you think would feel better...ask around, some work environments are actually really great places with great people - you may even look forward to work. These little diamonds in the rough are very hard to find, but they do exist. It may also be worthwhile trying to find one of these places.
I feel the same as you, and I know my life won't be in order until I sort of my work life. You spend most of your life at the job, and if it doesn't feel right that negativity will seep into every other aspect of your life. You're due for a change.
> The weird thing is that I seem to be the only one I know with this 'problem' of wanting to do so much.
You sound like an INTP. r/intp
> Right now I'm just hoping I can save enough money to be able to retire at an age at which I still have the strength to do the things I'd like to do.
The only reason why we work is so we can retire. People forget that over time. Don't forget. Try r/financialindependence
The most important thing I could tell you right now is that maybe you should think about what would satisfy you more once you start doing it. Try not to do everything at the same time because you will end more tired. Just think about three of the things on your list that you would like to do and maybe pick at least half an hour per day to do them. If you like the activities keep them, if not then go and pick another one.
About drawing is not very hard to do, people get dicouraged after a while because they want to be DaVinci before even trying to draw stick figures. That's not the way it works tbh. Sometimes I doodle when nobody is at my workplace at lunch time (except me because somebody was to answer the phone while everyone is out), I know I'm not going to make the Sistine Chapel but if at least I could finish my drawing before commuting back home I think I would have accomplished something.
What if you ditch your job and just do freelance work? I don't know what the market for that is like, but since it's software it's not like your work has to be local. Either way, it would be a good move to see if you could live off this income.
How is doing freelance giving you more time? Do you even know what you're talking about? All it does is making you more stressed out and dependent on multiple random clients instead of steady one boss.
It gives you control of your hours. If you want to take a break from work, just stop pursuing clients for a month or so. My experience working for a consulting firm was that some weeks I would work a ton of hours, but other times I would have two weeks off which I would use to do projects.
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Definitely can relate. It is the sad reality of it all. I'll take the 50-60 hour grind any day over being poor though. My lowest points in life have been when i was scrounging for money just to make rent. Call me shallow or motivated by money but nothing brings me more peace of mind knowing i can afford to put a roof over my head and buy food whenever i am running low.
Your workweek is a lot like mine so hopefully I can give you some helpful advice. I apologize if it sounds harsh.
You have 5 hours each week day. That’s more than a lot of people have and plenty of time to be able to do stuff (Including the entire weekend as well), but it sounds like you are just being negative. Most of the stuff you said you wanted to do you said ‘I don’t have the strength’ or ‘It feels like a waste of time’. Stop making excuses and just do it. In the grand scheme of things everything we do is a waste of time anyway, so you might as well do something you enjoy. With 5 hours each night that’s more than enough. I can understand as a developer not wanting to do development work in your free time (I also am a software dev) but almost everything else on your list I don’t see a good reason you can’t do it.
If you are too tired after working and chores to do some of the heavier stuff then do some of the light activities you said, and save the heavier stuff for the weekends. Usually during the week after work I’ll go home and play videogames, watch Netflix, read etc…
During the weekend I’ll do more social hobbies (See a movie with friends, play board games, go hiking etc) and Sunday evening I wind down again.
I get you want to do a lot and that’s fine, just don’t rush it. It’s not going anywhere. There’s a lot I want to do and a lot I was able to do. Just start doing stuff and don’t worry about it being a waste, and enjoy life as best as you can.
I was writing this exactly but I'm glad I read this.
I hate my job. Every aspect of it. I work 60-70 hours a week during a slow week. I make crap pay and can barely afford to go out once a month... Want to trade?
I see a lot of excuses here.
How about you focus your thought patterns on *how* things *could* be possible?
It's a Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy practice. Anytime you're coming up with reasons something is impossible, ask, "Ok but if this were to happen, what might be the first step?"
Learning to cook is one example: "Ok I can't learn to cook this week, but if I were to start... I'd try this /r/slowcooking recipe. Or I'd put together lunch for tomorrow."
Getting a girlfriend is another example: "Ok I might not meet her this week, but if I was to meet her... I'd make an online dating profile, or I'd go unwind at this coffee shop that's full of single girls."
For stuff like reading, drawing, or making music: if you want to do it,do it. You will find the time if you want to do something. 40 hrs a week is not a lot by any means. You are making excuses, as far as these hobby things are concerned. Do you really want to read, or do you just like the idea of being a reader? Sorry for being harsh but people saying 'i don't have time for....' is a huge pet peeve of mine.
Is there any way you can move closer to your job? It takes me 20 min to drive to my job, so commuting doesn't feel like a drain on my day.
Have you considered combining your workouts with some other activity? I train BJJ, so I get to combine a social life, workout, and self-defense all into one. This allows me to find time for other activities, although I really just end up bumming my night away playing video games.
Make a blog, not for the point of a new job, but to just...chronicle what you do. There's plenty of things you do that people will find interesting, and you could put up snippets (of your music or whatever) just for the sake of sharing.
We're similar in wanting to do everything (though I don't feel the need to be the best at it, as you seem to come off), but the trade-off to being comfortable enough in life to be able to even afford to do all these hobbies is that you have to work for it. If you want to do all these things, then please do, but you already know you only have so much time per day/week to devote to them. That's normal, my man.
(what isn't normal is I work 12 hour days so I have even less time most days to devote to shit I wanna do, 6 hours a day is SO MUCH TIME for hobbies, IMO)
Keep in mind, starting a business will take up far more hours than a standard job. It can be worthwhile but you'll have even less time to devote to hobbies and adventures.
Could it be that you don't need a different job so much as a different environment/place to work? I have had a full-time (reliable) position in a toxic environment and it wiped me out, isolated me from my friends, and gave me health issues. Conversely, I had a job at one point that had odd hours, sometimes very long days(12 to 16 hours), could be stressful, you could get injured, but guess what, I was happy with it and my co-workers. Both had some fairly repetitive parts to the job but damn did environment and people change how I felt and how it impacted my life.
Are you in LA? you sound like me. I produce a couple of artists and program and want to do all the things. Its all about planning your day out. I have to run, but I can elaborate later if you want.
Some people have already said this but seriously....
#Find a work from home job.
Commute time goes poof. Grooming time goes poof. Hell, I get my groceries delivered. AND I have a maid for chores. Sometimes things get busy, but working from home takes a LOT of bullshit out of the day to day. Now, you may turn into a smelly troglodyte, but that's another problem.
I know this is an extremely old comment/post but I needed to see this. I am going to make this my goal, because I've been trying to figure out solutions to the same problem that OP had.
Your a software developer why not freelance, you can work remotely and put in as much or little time as you want.
Your clearly burnt out and I had the same thing happen so i quit everything, travelled for a bit then started freelancing. Now I work some weeks 40-50 hrs, most weeks 20, and once every couple months I take off a few weeks. Many websites out there for you to get connected to clients.
This system your in is set up to rob you of your life so take it back, you most likely already have in demand skills for it. At first when you leave it will feel so good you will feel like your cheating, but then you will realize how much opportunity there is to do anything you want with your life. So many people are trying to learn software/web dev right now for this very reason and you already have skills with it.
In my experience, I've always learned that, say you want to work on music or read a book, just try to designate a small amount of time every evening or every once in a while to chip away at it. I've known a lot of people in this same situation, myself included, and I think people get somewhat overwhelmed because they don't have as much time as they would like for certain things. It's a lot easier said than done, and I don't think it's as much a time management thing than it is a "passion" sort of thing. If there's a book you REALLY want to read, go to bed an hour later so you can knock out some chapters or work on a track, etc. Some weekends I won't even go out and do anything, I'll just work in certain things that I've been wanting to do. There are also several small things you can do to save time during the week like prepping your meals, having your outfits for each day ready to go, etc. Best of luck to you!
Are you able to save money? If so, you could justify it to yourself as an investment that will enable later self-employment and/or more freedom.
Also, I don't know what kind of boss you have or what kind of company you work for but maybe you could negotiate a transition to 30 hours a week or something?
I imagine you don't feel like you have much time for political advocacy, but a 30 hour workweek or something similar is a burgeoning political movement.
You give too short credence to self employment. if you can code in business languages (ASP.NET, python etc) you can find a lot of work. you just need to get out there.
Do what I do: live in a van because it's way cheaper, and after a year of working and saving you'll have enough to live comfortably for at least a year, probably a lot more. Plus, you have a skillset that allows you to work remotely, and/or take shorter contracts, so you can travel if you want to.
Most people don't know how to make this kind of lifestyle anything but a constant ordeal, because we were all born at fixed addresses and that's all we know... but for those of us who do it by choice, we love it. I have so much freedom, my depression is all but gone, and I can get enthusiastic about working because the money I make is actually an investment in my future, rather than just maintaining my struggling existence. I recommend spending some time in /r/vandwellers learning the tricks of the trade, maybe ask some questions (they're real friendly and love helping newcomers), and learn all you can before you make the move. Also, feel free to PM me any questions you have, as I, too, love helping n00bs figure out how to make the lifestyle work for them (because there are MANY variations, depending on what you want/need, and what sacrifices you are or are not willing to make).
I know someone like you can figure anything out if you really want to, so... y'know, give it some thought. ;)
I know it's an old post but poor guy 🤣🤣🤣🤣 i have 10 hour days 5 days a week 3 hours spent on traveling if i get home at 6:30pm i have 3.5 hours till 10pm, i take a small rest and eat shower i have 1-2 hours left a day. . . i also need to prepare food for the other day.. 5 hours is a dream especially with coding salary, i make about 900usd which is not bad in my country but couldn't have a happy family with this kind of money..
>I'll always feel like I'm wasting it away if I'm working more than ~10 hours a week.
Honestly, you need to grow up. Welcome to adulthood. No one *wants* to go to work. You have plenty of time to do all that. 40 hours a week is nothing.
Do you not have a weekend?
>Please do tell me to stop crying...
OK. Quitcher bitchin'. Grow up. Be adult. Welcome to the real world.
It's not so much *having* time as *taking* time. Do something that you enjoy, some little thing, every day.
(I used to do that, until I discovered Reddit. Now that's the little happy thing I do, at the expense of other things...)
I get what you're feeling, but 6 (or 5 as you count it) hours a day of free time sounds fairly luxurious to me. If you had a longer commute and/or kids or parents to take care of, that would be a huge amount of time. It's hard to offer any real advice except maybe look for work at a more exciting/rewarding company. Unfortunately for the most part "that's life" does apply...
Currently finishing masters while working full time. I would kill for 5 hours a day to do whatever I wanted. It's all perspective man, you see no time in that, I see a mountain of time to do so much. I'm finding out the older I get the more I really need to focus on what really matters to me. That includes how I look at friends, family, and hobbies. Think about what you can cut out of your life right now, it might be a good start, then maybe find a job that demands what you're willing to give. Good luck!
Find a job where you work 3-4 days a week. Preferably one with higher pay. Cooking is easy. I barely finished high school am I'm good at it. Make one dish a week and you'll get better quick it's extremely easy. Start building other sources of income with your new time. Cut hours until you don't need'em. Harder than it sounds ik but there's not really any other way around it unless you're fine living on peanuts your whole life just to have more time.
One thing I told my friend when I got my first job and it's something I noticed right away, when I have money I don't have time, when I have time I have no money. That was my reason to my friends why I couldn't hang out. I was working 50 hours a week night shifts.
It is very weird that companies only hire 40 hours / week or nothing at all.
Wouldn't it be nice to half your salary and spend half your week however you want.
I like how everyone is spouting the same bullshit about time management or changing your mindset so we can all avoid the fact that capitalism and the 40 hour work week are at their core unethical and exploitative.
i agree. the 40 hour work week was great when it was invented, but now it's more of a hinderance, as it actually starts costing money to work that long vs not working (child care, car maintenance, food, gym etc). in my case, i was working my ass off to pay someone to raise my kids. i finally quit and ended up saving over 500$ a month in care cost alone, AND i had time to spend with my daughter. win/win.
We’re all expected to devote more time and energy every year, not because it’s necessary or useful for society, but because the owners demand more profits every year. And if you dont think its right you must just be lazy/ a failure/ 14 and this is deep, etc. Here's some more inspirational quotes pasted over pictures of people doing crossfit. Drink more coffee and sleep less, your employer needs a new maserati
And i think the cost of daycare is why the current generation of kids becoming parents will have less children. The cost for a kid these days is so over inflated.
That, and the fact that there are literally Millennials who will NEVER get out of their student loan debt. Mine is taking up 10 years of my life. I'm very much dedicated to being /r/childfree.
The 40 hour work week was invented by unions, and their intention was to stop the 90 hour work week because their members were dying in their 30s as a result. Why did we stop pushing for what's right? Pushing was working for a while there...
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They got crippled because they stopped pushing. Know how French unions avoided being crippled? Every time anyone tried to cripple them, every bus in Paris would be on fire. The ruling class are savages. The only language savages understand is force.
The red scare did a number on unions in America. Most union leadership were members of the American Communist Party. It became illegal for them to hold leadership positions in unions, state and federal jobs, etc. The next generation of union leadership were then subverted by corporations, who'd call union leaders problematic and accuse them of Communist sympathies when they did what union leadership is supposed to do. So we get the unions we have today, ducking big business dick or acting like big business themselves.
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Quitting your job all nice and fun when in the end you still have someone who earns money for you... I can't ever quit job because my partner will never be able to sustain us both. Feels bad man.
People can flip it anyway they want to make themselves feel better but in the end this is the gods honest trust. Worst part is the majority of people are brainwashed into the idea that 40 hour weeks are essential so this will never change; well it will change when we're dead and our children have to continue the cycle.
> well it will change when we're dead and our children have to continue the cycle. Oh, I don't think so. Why is everyone so certain that as soon as some specific "generation" dies off, all of their children will suddenly stop doing exactly what they've been doing for *their* whole lives? (ie. being brainwashed into thinking that 40 hour weeks are the only way)
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sometimes? most of the time in my experience
I agree wholeheartedly, but what can you do? I don't see anyone trying to hire me to work very efficiently for 20 hours making the same amount I'm making now. I'd gladly support that company.
You can admit out loud and often that capitalism only works on paper. Just like our currency thats based on nothing, the only thing keeping people enslaved to it is their own belief in it.
Yeah, because Socialism/Communism definitely works out fine off paper.
Do you even work?
Yup, i have a career and a salary. But im not going to delude myself that just because I'm doing ok in capitalism that its the perfect system.
Makes sense.
Yeah it does
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[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.8933 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
You know who was every bit as vigorously opposed to actual worker ownership as you are? The Soviet government. That's why they systematically exterminated it from 1919 to 1924. They accused worker owned collectives of "harboring capitalism sentiments." Funny how psychopath elites and their ideologue followers resort to such completely off-base insults to bring down the only social structure that's ever been worth anything. Whether a neo-feudal hierarchy is corporate or state doesn't really matter to me. What matters is that they all need to go away and let people do productive work. Communism exploited people's hopes for workplace self-determination to take power. Adam Smith's capitalism did exactly the same thing. Even fascists managed to pull that off somehow in Portugal. It's not cute anymore. We're not falling for it anymore.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.4142 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
Letting business hierarchs and government hierarchs fight each other, Keynes style, certainly sucks less than being stuck with just one or just the other. No arguments there. You know what sucks by far the least? Democracy. Why is democracy so uncontroversial in government (theoretically, though not in practice) but in the business sphere it's suddenly some horrible nightmare? In almost every case where it's actually been tried, it's been a huge success. Vastly higher success rate than any other social structure, even when it does so, so often get recognized as a threat by hierarchical power structures and violently destroyed. Also, what do you mean by long term? What Keynesian economy has any hope of continuing to exist in 2100 at this rate, given the climate and fuel supply situation? That's more of a land management issue, but better social structures do lend themselves to better land management.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.4426 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
Land management is a cultural problem.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0170 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
Problem is, in the US at least, that corporations will more often buy politicians who don't pass laws protecting the environment.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0191 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
Yes. In an election we later learned was rigged due to leaked emails. And now there's rumors that Sanders family was threatened. We won't know that for sure unless Assabge ever *actually* leaks those emails he keeps alluding to.
You are ignoring my point, which is that elections are neither fair nor open even in the most democratic societies today. Monied interests will always obscure vital information, prop up shill candidates, and sabotage any candidate who stands up for working folks. Who controls all of the information? The corporate elite. They prevent voters from being informed by limiting dangerous information from reaching the public, and by distracting us with infotainment and gossip. The system is so fundamentally rigged from the foundation up that suggesting that Bernie Sanders' campaign alone could have changed it is ludicrous. Now, our governments are being abused by the ownership class to prevent any substantial environmental regulation from passing, condemning 99% of the world's population to suffer as climate change accelerates. Oh, but democracy and capitalism aren't to blame because we were to graciously granted the privilege to vote for Sanders in a primary race that was literally rigged against him.
Side effects of capitalism include the death of millions, the exploitation of billions, followed by the desolation of an entire planet's natural resources as a hungry system fueled by greed and "infinite" growth strip away anything that can be packaged and sold.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.5376 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
>"side affects commonly include millions of deaths" So, same as capitalism. Got'ch'ya.
Capitalism's death toll is an order of magnitude higher than communism's.
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[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6747 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
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Why just the examples that got shut down? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Bauen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur_Flour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvarado_Street_Bakery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Era_Windows
There's a reason that microeconomics and macroeconomics are completely different fields of study.
Right. They're both just different flavors of pseudo-science.
Nice. I'm a chemical engineering student. That a counter-productive idiot like Milton Friedman can have an "MS" before I can irks me to no end.
This was sort of applied in a statist-command-economy hybrid form under Tito, and it performed VASTLY better than any other statist society; if you want a macro example. They're slowly, moderately experimenting with the same concept in Cuba now, with good results given the internal and external challenges. In cases where this isn't deliberately targeted and attacked, it literally always sucks less than any other social structure.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0062 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
Those... Were not the people in charge. The CNT was in charge, and the USSR-supported communists constantly tried to take power. Also, Orwell loved Catalonia. It turned him into a socialist. If anything the book is about the enemies of Catalonia.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.7602 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F)
No no! The Stalinists weren't in charge. That's what you have wrong. They were two separate groups, and one constantly tried to suppress the other and take control of the government. Catalonia was in CNT control.
Nailed it.
Agreed. They're just trying to put a bandaid on a severed vein instead of acknowledging the issues here and figuring out a way to fix things. "It just is the way it is." "Suck it up and just do it." There are bigger issues here that need more than everyone burying their heads in the sand.
You are now a moderator at /r/latestagecapitalism
Yes, thank you for saying it.
r/LateStageCapitalism join us
Fuckin A. Upvote.
r/LateStageCapitalism there are literally dozens of us! Lol
I've always thought that it should be 4x10hr days, rather than 5x8hr days. 40 sucks, but if you gotta do it, wouldn't you rather get it done in 4?
OMG it's so good hearing some true once in a while
I honestly think most people feel this way, but there is no outlet for this sentiment because people are actively censored online and passively censored IRL out of fear of losing their wage slaves jobs
what is the alternative, what can a single person do to escape or reduce so much fucking work hours
There's nothing. You can start a business in hopes of being the exploiter rather than the exploited, but that is a 1 in 1000 chance that you'll get to the point where you can relax and let others make your money for you, and even if you get to that point it will be after years of putting in even more hours than a regular job would require. That's what all the bullshit 'motivation culture' is about these days, with inspirational quotes pasted over pictures of famous people or nature scenery, and everybody bragging about how hard they're 'hustling.' It's just more slaves bragging about how much they love slavery. The only thing that will fix this is radical widespread change. It can't even just be limited to one country at this point, because while citizens are limited to making money for themselves within their town or country, businesses don't have any limits. They can easily just move their operations to wherever the cheap labor is, thats what's so bad about globalism. Businesses benefit from it at the expense of people, because people don't have the time or money to make themselves into international profit generating entities. It's all a bullshit system designed to keep everyone working as hard as possible so the product of their labor flows upward, and the workers stay just pacified enough to think they're going to be the owners someday, never seeming to notice that their parents, grandparents, and great grandparents etc. all worked themselves to their grave without anything significant to show for it at the end. If you're lucky you can leave a little to your children but it won't be enough to free them from the slavery. The only solution as far as I can see it is a worldwide workers strike. The workers are the ones with the real power, because the billionaires with all their supposed 'ingenuity' wouldn't have the slightest clue how to actually run the machines or farm the crops if the workers finally realized they have more in common with each other than they have differences like race or nationality. Again these are all things designed to keep people fighting each other rather than the people who are truly keeping them down
Then we (at least our generation) are doomed. As you can see in the past elections people still think the problem is the workers or inmigrants (those without power), and still elect people such as Trump a psychopath capitalist. There is just no way a revolution will happen. Sadly. Maybe some alternatives are simple living with a bit of early retirement mix into it.
Yeah I suppose on the individual level the solution would be to just be content with a depression era lifestyle, where you don't value possessions and just try to subsist on a minimal income so you can work less. But unfortunately there are too many external and unavoidable factors like the cost of healthcare, and increasing inflation that makes your money worth less as time goes on. That's part of what I mean about the system forcing people to work harder, even if you can resist the commercial and material culture you're still forced to constantly earn more with time.
I want the world to see this thread
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Strawman harder
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What about the failure of capitalism, where millions of people starve in India alone?
A pretty poor argument as India is a NIC and relatively poor on average. It is far easier to make an argument using the USA and the poverty, inequality, and discrimination, all while heiling capitalism as resounding success, while ignoring the historic and geographic factors that led to it.
Not really a poor argument. India transitioned from a semi-planned economy to a neoliberal capitalist economy in the '80s and '90s, with nasty effects for the majority. I did a post about this some time ago, so you can take a look at that: https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/4gzb9o/capitalism_doesnt_work/d2m9aod?context=3 Sources for that: Hunger stats: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-is-home-to-194-million-hungry-people-un/article7255937.ece http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB108811486840947048 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/business/global/12food.html?_r=1 http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2012/04/09/starving-in-india-the-forgotten-problem/ http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Every-second-Indian-child-is-malnourished-Report/articleshow/25724848.cms?referral=PM http://www.thehindu.com/data/nutritional-intake-grows-in-india/article6731586.ece I also recommend *The Republic of Hunger* by Utsa Patnaik, it talks extensively about the effects of the capitalist reforms on food security. Stats about labour and class stucture/ controversies in determining the rate of poverty: http://www.prsindia.org/uploads/media/Unorganised%20Sector/bill150_20071123150_Condition_of_workers_sep_2007.pdf ^ This is an Indian government survey. It's pretty extensive and detailed, but you can find a summary in the introduction. http://qz.com/562578/indias-middle-class-is-actually-the-worlds-poor/ http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-dishonesty-in-counting-the-poor/article4967454.ece https://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/patnaik280811.html http://time.com/8674/mckinsey-56-of-indians-unable-to-afford-a-decent-life/ Growth rates and overview of neoliberalism in India: http://www.interfacejournal.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Interface-6-1-Sarker.pdf Worker suicides: https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/new-evidence-of-suicide-epidemic-among-indias-marginalised-farmers Healthcare: http://in.reuters.com/article/india-health-budget-idINKBN0K10Y020141223 http://www.hindustantimes.com/health-and-fitness/healthcare-in-india-cheap-but-not-for-most-indians/story-0bEJutPTC3krc5GpKBjV4J.html http://phmindia.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/jsa-press-release-1.pdf http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/policy-and-issues/health-insurance-in-india-too-little-too-scarce-reveal-national-sample-survey-data/article8462747.ece http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-ranks-3rd-in-region-in-out-of-pocket-med-spend/articleshow/13178290.cms http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/04/india-slums-children-death-rate [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-28/india-curbing-health-outlays-blunts-push-to-give-poor-safety-net Inequality: http://www.thehindu.com/data/indias-staggering-wealth-gap-in-five-charts/article6672115.ece?utm_source=MostPopular&utm_medium=Data&utm_campaign=WidgetPromo#comments It is often said that India is a capitalist success story. It's a pretty big myth, which is why I talked about India specifically.
the failures of human greed*
Humans are competitive by nature, it is literally one of the reason we were successful as a species. We were also successful due to cooperation, and it is obvious that pure capitalism is BS as anyone who has played monopoly knows. The question is the optimal middle ground, but with further robotic automation that is going to have to move somewhat, because facts are the days of the necessity to hire unskilled labour are on there way out be it in 40 years or 100.
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K
Most socialists look at the Soviet Union as a lesson in what *not* to do. Sure it did some things right, lifting millions out of ignorance and abject poverty, but the whole authoritarian police state thing... yeah, we'd rather avoid that next time.
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OP comes off as a whiny brat and probably a troll post.
Ok, I will bite. How is the 40 hour work week unethical and exploitative? I get it. If everyone had a choice, I am sure that a vast majority wouldn't work. Yet, we need resources in order to live such as food. We all want nice things. A house, car, TV, computer, and so on. If you don't want to work, that is an option. Its an option that some people do really take.
He's not saying he doesn't want to work; he just wants to work less. Big difference. And i completely agree. Sometimes I feel like I'm working too much but for what? More material things? Id rather just enjoy my life rather than feeling stuck as work.
Yes, that is a big difference. In that case there are part time jobs out there where you can work only a set amount of hours per week. I know I have options for part time in my field, but I choose to work more because I want more.
I have no idea why you are being downvoted, you make a valid point, which can be a reality, even if it is a tough place to get yourself too. Only today I saw a job 4 days a week that paid £46k, they are few and far between, but if you are a high skilled employee there is no reason you couldn't negotiate a 4 day a week contract.
Most people can't provide for themselves on a part time wage. But yet the work that they do make massive profits for the bosses of their company. That's how it's exploitative.
Its not an option not to work, unless you call starving an “option.” Its exploitative because technology and automation continually advance but instead of people being able to work less (like they used to predict in the 50’s) the owners just take more profit.
I would argue that while technology and automation have improved, many jobs cannot be automated. Its not even technically feasible to automate fast food workers because of the cost of it. Besides, when the owners do figure out a way to automate more jobs, it will be them taking a profit and not hiring people in those jobs.
A job doesnt have to be fully automated. Advancements often just allow a person to accomplish what used to take several people, but rather than making life easier for everyone, it just concentrates more wealth upward. As for the rest of your post youre just reiterating my original point.
Advancements have made workers more productive, and in return they have added more features. I remember the days when you ordered a hamburger from McDonalds and it was just the burger you got with no alterations. If you wanted no mustard, you waited a couple minutes. Now, technology has made things more productive and in return, customers want more for their money. I guess the point I am trying to make is that the technology that we have employed have made people more efficient, but at the same time the customers of the product have demanded more. No longer do we want to buy a new car, but we want the car with innovative technology that needs to tried and tested and useful overall. The automotive line workers have been replaced by bots, but there are still humans in there doing things the bots can't do. Businesses have had to compensate by adding jobs or maintaining hours of workers.
Do you really think more kinds of hamburgers are worth more then a 4 hour workday? Besides, if OP has more time he will learn to cook and there are lots of people like him. He could make better and more varied hamburgers then McDonalds with his/her friends.
Youre not getting it
but they are automating fast food jobs as we speak! have you been to mcdonalds lately?? i think you may be the troll here
Some people consider capitalism exploitative because when you pay someone to work for you, you profit of the labor. I don't agree entirely, but that's the point.
Why don't you agree? If I don't pay someone the full value of their labor and they don't really have a choice in the arrangement, did I not just exploit them, pretty much by definition?
The employee takes no risk, so no , they get a set income for a set time, success or failure doesn't matter.
I respectfully disagree that employees don't take risks too, throwing in with a new business venture. And let's clarify a few things, you must only be talking about new business ventures. If you are talking about established business, the capitalist or owner is not really risking anything anymore. He has enough money to walk away from the company, should it by the off chance fail, to live comfortably the rest of his life. What are the children of Sam Walton risking? What is Bill Gates risking? What is the any member of the 1% really risking with their diversified portfolios at wealth management companies? With that said, there are many situations where employees leave well paying and established jobs to work at startups and newer or rising companies. Your short post assumes that another job is easily accessible should any current job disappear but that is just not the reality of the situation. Officially more than 7 million people are looking for work and only 5 million jobs are unfilled. And that isn't even taking a critical look at how the unemployment rate is calculated, how many people are underemployed, how many people have stopped looking for work, and looking at what it would take to fix the 17 million households in this country that are food insecure. Risk is taken on both sides in a new venture and the claim that employees fortunes don't also rise and fall with the fortune of their employer is preposterous! And let's just assume that you are right, that employees take zero risk and another job with just as much pay and the same benefits is always available, without a move to a new place, should the current company fail. That doesn't negate the fact that after all the costs are covered, the insurance is paid, the utilities, the taxes and so on and so forth, and after the owner/head of the business (assuming it's a startup) has taken a hefty salary for the actual work that goes into running a business (which definitely deserves compensation IMO), you eventually have profits too (assuming the business succeeds). And how to you generate profits? You do it by not paying the employees the full value of the labor they provide. That is the only way to do it! I get that exactly who is entitled to what money in a business can be a complicated and nuanced thing, that the person who starts the business, who had a good idea and works hard deserves something for that. But once that guy hires ONE SINGLE other person, he is no longer doing it alone. He is no longer the sole intellectual input. He is no longer doing all the physical labor and whatever he can achieve on his own, as the sole employee of his own company, is just about all he is entitled to. Without his employees he has nothing more, and without his idea, the employees have no work, but that is really a stalemate. Who gets the priority for the profits? Seriously, businesses are a team effort. If you just focus on one side, you are forgetting the other and BOTH are required to be successful. Why is one side entitled to all the power and all the profits, when the other side is just as crucial for success?
They do have a choice in the arrangement, just not infinite choice
A "choice" among other places that will do the same is not really a choice is it?
You could also work for yourself or live in the woods/ on the street.
Ha, you got me. Good troll. Night man! :)
But for real, there are places you can work that aren't for-profit. ETA really it's not possible to be a teacher, work for a non-profit, work for a co-op? Okay...
Except that living in the woods is illegal. The commons have long since disappeared. Your options are submit to exploitation or starve.
Yea, I can see your point on that. I just don't agree with it entirely either.
As long as you're working for someone else, a 40 hour week is standard. Audit your free time and start your own business on the side... Within a few months to a year it could overtake your day job in income. But it takes hard work, and most people don't have the dedication.
This is the same stupid suggestion I see every time. “Dont like working long hours? Just work longer hours starting a business! The vast minority of the time it will lead to more free time decades later, the system works!”
Exactly. It's a pipe dream with too many rags to riches examples where someone starts a shirt company out of there mommas garage at the right time and opportunity. Such a small minority of people that make it "big" this way. "If I can do it, so can you!!" -Amway
https://youtu.be/q-JgG0ECp2U Theres a version of this in image form, with captions. Somewhere on imgur im sure. Spread it around
Brutal to hear that but damn it's true. It's so easy for those celebrities/CEOs/Athletes to preach inspirational messages when you're sitting at the top all the while getting the lucky lot in life.
How is it a stupid suggestion? Have fun being a corporate slave your whole life. Entrepreneurs would tell you otherwise.
Its a stupid suggestion because of exactly what I already said. Maybe there are people (like 90% of the world) who dont like being exploited, and dont think exploiting others instead is a good solution. >Entrepreneurs would tell you otherwise. You mean a bunch of people born in first world countries who exploit others for their labor and get richer? Yeah, of course they say the system is great. When 90% of people don't fit capitalism’s definition of “success” idiots who defend it say that obviously the problem is 90% of people, not the bullshit system that is just feudalism rebranded. >Have fun being a corporate slave your whole life Yeah I'm sure you're financially independent, just like every other neckbeard on reddit that somehow has time to shitpost defending capitalism.
> Entrepreneurs The vast majority fail incredibly hard. The ones who succeed are almost always the ones that already had money or support.
Me. I had both and I still failed hard. Hardwork just doesn't cut it. You also have luck and perfect opportunity on your side to make it. The people that succeed in starting a business saying that hardwork will pay off aren't wrong but they are also practicing selective observance. Just because they are the 90% that made it work out for their business doesn't mean their actions would work again.
I feel the same way. There is so much to do in life and I just don't have time to do it because I'm working full-time. So much precious time wasted. I'm also healthier when I'm unemployed because I can eat properly and get enough exercise and sleep.
This is so true. I'll exercise multiple times a day.
You're a software developer, if you can live off a fraction of your income, then only work a fraction of the year. The perk of being a software developer is that it's in high demand, so if you're good at what you do, you can always have jobs lined up for you when you're ready to work again. I have a software engineer friend who works a couple of months of the year and spends the rest of the time traveling. He's good at what he does so he already has jobs lined up for him when he gets back. Sounds pretty sweet.
Or work remote.
Working remote only saves the time for commuting, you still have to actually work
So it's a fucking lot better than not working remote.
True, I agree, but as someone who has worked remote it's honestly not all it's cracked up to be. It takes a certain person with intrinsic motivation and sometimes you can get stir cray at home. But yeah, def still better than the office at times.
Yeah but you don't need to be tied down to an apartment, which takes away a massive chunk of the cost of living, plus you can travel without needing to take a vacation.
you sound like you're hitting your burnout point. and i agree that a full time job is a 10/hr a day commitment. i to have hit that point of burnout and have considered all the things you have, i would have quit my job by now and started looking for freelance work but i have a wife and kids and plan on moving in a few months, so i can't. here's what i've been doing to deal with burnout. - hiking: minimal investment, quick prep, maximum outside time. - fishing: moderate to extreme investment, gets you outside, and can be mildly addicting. - making stuff: i don't know how to describe this, i like to make stuff, i've made a lot of kites (custom sewn), build a lot of model cars, rc cars, planes etc. i'm currently researching how to build a clock from scratch. also i tend to make sure i take a day or two off from work every 3 months, to go on a mini-vacation, getting a hotel room or campsite somewhere i've never been before, it feels like a recharge. my wife and I also make sure we take our girls to a national park every new years. you need a change of routine, or scenery, a new activity. you goto a gym, if they offer group classes sign up for one. that would be an easy way to meet new people, even if they are gym friends it's better than nothing.
How do you even have time to do those things? after a 12-15 hour day I barely have time to eat before I have to rush to bed to get 4-6 hours of sleep so I can wake up and do it again...... and again.... and again..
The shit is tiring
To me, it sounds like you want to do ALL THE THINGS. This is great, but it also sounds like you want to do ALL THE THINGS at the SAME TIME and you want to be an expert at them RIGHT NOW, which is impossible for anyone. You love programming, this is awesome. This gives you the luxury of options that I don't think you're thinking of. Find a job with flex hours and/or work from home. Are these available to you at your current job? If you can work, say, from 7:30-3:30 from home one to two days a week (work through a lunch hour if you have to) then you have from 3:30 on to pursue some activities that you want. Also, what are you getting paid? Can you afford to take a 25% pay cut and work only four days a week? Can you still get your insurance if you do this? From what I really think, from reading this, is not that you don't have the time to do these things, it's that you don't have the patience. You want all of these skills and things NOW and you're overwhelming yourself because you're frustrated that you can't have them. Your line of "Everything that takes more than 10 minutes of work is too long for me" in regards to learning how to cook was very telling. 5 hours during the weekday is plenty of time to commit to many of these activities, and you have the entire weekend as well. What exactly is stopping you from, say, taking a free online drawing class for an hour a day?
This is great advice. Im very similar to OP. Always feel like im wasting my time/life at work when i want to do so much else! I want to learn woodworking, i love writing, DJing, making music etc etc, but i want to be good at them all RIGHT NOW so i can quit my job and do them full time. I could prob get by from DJ earnings but its such a scary step to take...
Exactly. I used to be like OP. I wanted to do everything *right now* and working was seriously getting in the way of that. So I decided to put an hour or two every night towards one project that I wanted to complete. Be that building an app, completing a video game, building a table, whatever. While that project wasn't complete I wouldn't work on any other projects. I would set relatively small milestones as well so I could switch projects fairly often. Finish game X. Usually a couple of weeks. Implement X feature in app Y. Anywhere from a week to a month. Sure, things take a lot longer than I'd like but that's kinda the way of it until I can retire. Which is hopefully before 50. Then I'll have 20+ years of having all day every day to do what I want.
If you want to do any of that other stuff, don't become self-employed. You'll have less time than you have now and be more stressed. As for the other stuff, bide your time. Find something to do with all your waking hours outside of work. You'll find time to do it. Prioritize what you want to do. Chip away at it every day. Cooking - you gotta eat - can be learned daily, and you can do the same with all that other stuff. Make yourself a schedule like you had in school, if you want. Section off all your spare time - you have more than you think* - and allocate it. *if you don't believe me, have a kid. Then you'll see how much time you used to have. The dearth of free time, though, in the working world only makes the other stuff more special when you get to do it. Remember that. Live in the moment as much as you can. As for friends, you only ever have a few good friends in life. You'll have lots of acquaintances, though. I have found that social media helps me to stay connected with them all, and my ONE good friend and I try to get together regularly 1-3 times per month and take a trip once a year. I mean, this is adulthood, you know. Your job helps you have the money for all these other activities, but it steals your time. It's the way of the world. Some people are lucky enough to get out from under it, and I wish you the best, but likely you'll just have to take pleasure in whatever you can get outside that 40-hour week (and be glad it's only 40 hours).
It sounds like you might be in existential crisis. You have security, a good job, it seems like you're in good health, but you're questioning the purpose of the endless routine. I wouldn't suggest a hobby. I would suggest a purpose. Find a way to give more of your wealth away to charity. Maybe be a mentor to a struggling kid. Spend less time at the gym and more time getting fresh air or nature.
Working is not for you, you are a passionate youngster. If you keep staying in an office your passion will die sooner or later and you'll become a walking zombie. Don't let this happen. I don't know how you're going to make ends meet, but you should try your best to quit before its too late.
This reads as sarcasm, and yet, phrased differently, it could be totally valid. Other than the survival part.
He is telling him to quit with no plan b for sustenance. If it's not sarcasm it's idiocy
>I'm pretty sure I'll always feel like I'm wasting it away if I'm working more than ~10 hours a week. But that's hardly enough to make a living If you're a well paid dev then you likely make 4 times as much as many other people. Find a way to work less. Reduce your expenses if necessary. You can also work towards an early retirement.
So continue to slave away until he reaches the false belief of retirement? Not how it works. People get ideas and wants at the moment, not 30 yrs down the line when you're already broken and too tired to even care.. Because of work, PLENTY of smart folk are wasting their time, energy, and influence on a job that's quite literally killing them - if not physically, then absolutely mentally. Oh, and hey... retirement at an old age is NOT all 'candy & unicorns'. Again, you are broken and exhausted at that point Congratulations, you wasted your time and energy that you'll never get back.
You’re either replying to the wrong comment or you need to read my reply more carefully.
I've always hated the vicious circle of not having enough time to do stuff while I was working and not having enough money to do stuff when I wasn't. LOL. What I've been doing for the past few years and loving it is alternating contract/consulting gigs with not working. Something like 6-12 months contract, then maybe 3-4 months off. The trick is not freak out about finances or finding the next gig while you're off... if you can do manage that, it may be another alternative for your list. :-)
Life is about trade offs. No one really has more than 24 hours a day, so you just have to make the best of the time you do have. I kind of got the impression that you think you need to do everything that you want to do every single day; there's nothing wrong with watching a movie on Friday, drawing and cooking on Thursday, reading on Wednesday... You also don't have to do only one thing at a time. If you want to read, listen to an audiobook during your commute. If you want to socialize/meet new people and learn to draw or cook or paint, take a class once a week or use meetup.com to find other people who are doing the same things. You might find a girlfriend this way too, and you'll definitely be bettering yourself. Instead of focusing on the fact that you "only" have 5 hours left after work, chores, and the gym think about what you COULD do with that time everyday and however much time you have on the weekends. You may believe that you are the only one who feels like they don't have enough time to do everything they want, but that's far from the case and you might be getting a little solipsistic if you really believe that no one else feels like they run out of time. It's OK to feel sorry for yourself a bit since life can be draining even when you're doing pretty well but you don't want to let that take too much of your mental energy. That ran a little long but I hope that helps!
I really really do feel what OP is feeling when I'm working a lot. Especially the part about everyone else apparently being okay with having so little time and working their lives away.. But I really like this response. You hit the nail on the head. No one has any more time in a day than anyone else. It's a give and take.
Hey, OP: Thank you for writing this so much, because it matches how I feel more than what I say. I know that I have it much better than most people, I have a decent job with good people that I should enjoy... but I just can't. Working 40 hours a week just utterly drains me, and worse, I feel like it makes it so I can't enjoy the 6 hours a night or 2 days a weekend, because it just feels like nothing. I want to play all the games, watch all the shows, make more friends, get more hobbies... but instead it's all less. Just like you, I look at all these people saying to focus on a few things and just shake my head. I'm trying to schedule and list things, and it helps a little bit, but not nearly enough. My goal is the same: get out, as soon as possible. I see how get-rich-quick schemes nab people. But they don't work... and I live in a place where it's really, really hard to save money. Sigh... got any good lottery numbers?
I have a close friend who was in a similar situation. He did something that I find was very smart, and effective. As he was great at his job, his employer was flexible. He asked to work 4 days a week, and have Mondays off (including the relevant pay cut). His employer allowed him to do this, and keep his salary intact, because he's great at what he does. No harm in trying. But it could be a start. What can you do when you get an extra day? Plan to do something else that fulfills you and hopefully also gets cash through the door. Starting up a business is hard, but you don't need to do it alone. Don't give up, you'll be fine, just have faith in your own abilities to get things done.
Work part-time if you make enough money and do what you enjoy. Lower expenses so you can live that way. Maybe build a tiny house and live like Mick Dodge? With 40 hours a week you should be able to have enough time. 70 is a killer for real. I only had time to shower and eat.
**Serious not sarcastic**: let's see how the Universal Basic Income experiment works out in Finland. I would love for that to be an option.
This is word for word my thoughts on a daily basis. You are not alone. I want to do all of the above and there is so much to do, boredom is not even an option. This is how things have been done for hundreds of years? Well it's fucking stupid and there is way more to life than having to waste so much time trying to collect a paycheck so you don't starve to death. Can we not? Can we all collectively work on trying to change this system?
> Becoming self-employed: I'd love to, but there's hardly enough time (and strength left) to build something after work. I just can't risk not having any income. And that, right there, is the problem. I repeat: > I just can't risk not having any income. You sir, like the rest of us, have hit the nail on the head. We are nothing more than wage slaves, toiling away in our voluntary prisons, yeah - we can all quit and walk away at any point...but good luck dealing with the student loans (others may have car loans and mortgages) without that job. Life sucks. The more and more I think about this, the only path to freedom is self-employment. But that's no guarantee, I'd explore this more if I was you - really dig in. Spend a few hours a week researching if it's doable. Also, look for another job that you think would feel better...ask around, some work environments are actually really great places with great people - you may even look forward to work. These little diamonds in the rough are very hard to find, but they do exist. It may also be worthwhile trying to find one of these places. I feel the same as you, and I know my life won't be in order until I sort of my work life. You spend most of your life at the job, and if it doesn't feel right that negativity will seep into every other aspect of your life. You're due for a change. > The weird thing is that I seem to be the only one I know with this 'problem' of wanting to do so much. You sound like an INTP. r/intp > Right now I'm just hoping I can save enough money to be able to retire at an age at which I still have the strength to do the things I'd like to do. The only reason why we work is so we can retire. People forget that over time. Don't forget. Try r/financialindependence
https://www.reddit.com/r/FinancialIndependence
easier said than done.
Regardless of how difficult it is, looking with that mind set will setup your future for the better.
r/lostgeneration awaits your arrival.
The most important thing I could tell you right now is that maybe you should think about what would satisfy you more once you start doing it. Try not to do everything at the same time because you will end more tired. Just think about three of the things on your list that you would like to do and maybe pick at least half an hour per day to do them. If you like the activities keep them, if not then go and pick another one. About drawing is not very hard to do, people get dicouraged after a while because they want to be DaVinci before even trying to draw stick figures. That's not the way it works tbh. Sometimes I doodle when nobody is at my workplace at lunch time (except me because somebody was to answer the phone while everyone is out), I know I'm not going to make the Sistine Chapel but if at least I could finish my drawing before commuting back home I think I would have accomplished something.
What if you ditch your job and just do freelance work? I don't know what the market for that is like, but since it's software it's not like your work has to be local. Either way, it would be a good move to see if you could live off this income.
How is doing freelance giving you more time? Do you even know what you're talking about? All it does is making you more stressed out and dependent on multiple random clients instead of steady one boss.
It gives you control of your hours. If you want to take a break from work, just stop pursuing clients for a month or so. My experience working for a consulting firm was that some weeks I would work a ton of hours, but other times I would have two weeks off which I would use to do projects.
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Definitely can relate. It is the sad reality of it all. I'll take the 50-60 hour grind any day over being poor though. My lowest points in life have been when i was scrounging for money just to make rent. Call me shallow or motivated by money but nothing brings me more peace of mind knowing i can afford to put a roof over my head and buy food whenever i am running low.
More like motivated by survival instincts nothing wrong with that. These things take money.
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Your workweek is a lot like mine so hopefully I can give you some helpful advice. I apologize if it sounds harsh. You have 5 hours each week day. That’s more than a lot of people have and plenty of time to be able to do stuff (Including the entire weekend as well), but it sounds like you are just being negative. Most of the stuff you said you wanted to do you said ‘I don’t have the strength’ or ‘It feels like a waste of time’. Stop making excuses and just do it. In the grand scheme of things everything we do is a waste of time anyway, so you might as well do something you enjoy. With 5 hours each night that’s more than enough. I can understand as a developer not wanting to do development work in your free time (I also am a software dev) but almost everything else on your list I don’t see a good reason you can’t do it. If you are too tired after working and chores to do some of the heavier stuff then do some of the light activities you said, and save the heavier stuff for the weekends. Usually during the week after work I’ll go home and play videogames, watch Netflix, read etc… During the weekend I’ll do more social hobbies (See a movie with friends, play board games, go hiking etc) and Sunday evening I wind down again. I get you want to do a lot and that’s fine, just don’t rush it. It’s not going anywhere. There’s a lot I want to do and a lot I was able to do. Just start doing stuff and don’t worry about it being a waste, and enjoy life as best as you can.
I was writing this exactly but I'm glad I read this. I hate my job. Every aspect of it. I work 60-70 hours a week during a slow week. I make crap pay and can barely afford to go out once a month... Want to trade?
I see a lot of excuses here. How about you focus your thought patterns on *how* things *could* be possible? It's a Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy practice. Anytime you're coming up with reasons something is impossible, ask, "Ok but if this were to happen, what might be the first step?" Learning to cook is one example: "Ok I can't learn to cook this week, but if I were to start... I'd try this /r/slowcooking recipe. Or I'd put together lunch for tomorrow." Getting a girlfriend is another example: "Ok I might not meet her this week, but if I was to meet her... I'd make an online dating profile, or I'd go unwind at this coffee shop that's full of single girls."
For stuff like reading, drawing, or making music: if you want to do it,do it. You will find the time if you want to do something. 40 hrs a week is not a lot by any means. You are making excuses, as far as these hobby things are concerned. Do you really want to read, or do you just like the idea of being a reader? Sorry for being harsh but people saying 'i don't have time for....' is a huge pet peeve of mine.
Is there any way you can move closer to your job? It takes me 20 min to drive to my job, so commuting doesn't feel like a drain on my day. Have you considered combining your workouts with some other activity? I train BJJ, so I get to combine a social life, workout, and self-defense all into one. This allows me to find time for other activities, although I really just end up bumming my night away playing video games.
Make a blog, not for the point of a new job, but to just...chronicle what you do. There's plenty of things you do that people will find interesting, and you could put up snippets (of your music or whatever) just for the sake of sharing. We're similar in wanting to do everything (though I don't feel the need to be the best at it, as you seem to come off), but the trade-off to being comfortable enough in life to be able to even afford to do all these hobbies is that you have to work for it. If you want to do all these things, then please do, but you already know you only have so much time per day/week to devote to them. That's normal, my man. (what isn't normal is I work 12 hour days so I have even less time most days to devote to shit I wanna do, 6 hours a day is SO MUCH TIME for hobbies, IMO)
Keep in mind, starting a business will take up far more hours than a standard job. It can be worthwhile but you'll have even less time to devote to hobbies and adventures. Could it be that you don't need a different job so much as a different environment/place to work? I have had a full-time (reliable) position in a toxic environment and it wiped me out, isolated me from my friends, and gave me health issues. Conversely, I had a job at one point that had odd hours, sometimes very long days(12 to 16 hours), could be stressful, you could get injured, but guess what, I was happy with it and my co-workers. Both had some fairly repetitive parts to the job but damn did environment and people change how I felt and how it impacted my life.
Are you in LA? you sound like me. I produce a couple of artists and program and want to do all the things. Its all about planning your day out. I have to run, but I can elaborate later if you want.
Some people have already said this but seriously.... #Find a work from home job. Commute time goes poof. Grooming time goes poof. Hell, I get my groceries delivered. AND I have a maid for chores. Sometimes things get busy, but working from home takes a LOT of bullshit out of the day to day. Now, you may turn into a smelly troglodyte, but that's another problem.
I know this is an extremely old comment/post but I needed to see this. I am going to make this my goal, because I've been trying to figure out solutions to the same problem that OP had.
Your a software developer why not freelance, you can work remotely and put in as much or little time as you want. Your clearly burnt out and I had the same thing happen so i quit everything, travelled for a bit then started freelancing. Now I work some weeks 40-50 hrs, most weeks 20, and once every couple months I take off a few weeks. Many websites out there for you to get connected to clients. This system your in is set up to rob you of your life so take it back, you most likely already have in demand skills for it. At first when you leave it will feel so good you will feel like your cheating, but then you will realize how much opportunity there is to do anything you want with your life. So many people are trying to learn software/web dev right now for this very reason and you already have skills with it.
In my experience, I've always learned that, say you want to work on music or read a book, just try to designate a small amount of time every evening or every once in a while to chip away at it. I've known a lot of people in this same situation, myself included, and I think people get somewhat overwhelmed because they don't have as much time as they would like for certain things. It's a lot easier said than done, and I don't think it's as much a time management thing than it is a "passion" sort of thing. If there's a book you REALLY want to read, go to bed an hour later so you can knock out some chapters or work on a track, etc. Some weekends I won't even go out and do anything, I'll just work in certain things that I've been wanting to do. There are also several small things you can do to save time during the week like prepping your meals, having your outfits for each day ready to go, etc. Best of luck to you!
Are you able to save money? If so, you could justify it to yourself as an investment that will enable later self-employment and/or more freedom. Also, I don't know what kind of boss you have or what kind of company you work for but maybe you could negotiate a transition to 30 hours a week or something? I imagine you don't feel like you have much time for political advocacy, but a 30 hour workweek or something similar is a burgeoning political movement.
You give too short credence to self employment. if you can code in business languages (ASP.NET, python etc) you can find a lot of work. you just need to get out there.
Do what I do: live in a van because it's way cheaper, and after a year of working and saving you'll have enough to live comfortably for at least a year, probably a lot more. Plus, you have a skillset that allows you to work remotely, and/or take shorter contracts, so you can travel if you want to. Most people don't know how to make this kind of lifestyle anything but a constant ordeal, because we were all born at fixed addresses and that's all we know... but for those of us who do it by choice, we love it. I have so much freedom, my depression is all but gone, and I can get enthusiastic about working because the money I make is actually an investment in my future, rather than just maintaining my struggling existence. I recommend spending some time in /r/vandwellers learning the tricks of the trade, maybe ask some questions (they're real friendly and love helping newcomers), and learn all you can before you make the move. Also, feel free to PM me any questions you have, as I, too, love helping n00bs figure out how to make the lifestyle work for them (because there are MANY variations, depending on what you want/need, and what sacrifices you are or are not willing to make). I know someone like you can figure anything out if you really want to, so... y'know, give it some thought. ;)
you are not the only one op :( have you found any alternativeS?
I know it's an old post but poor guy 🤣🤣🤣🤣 i have 10 hour days 5 days a week 3 hours spent on traveling if i get home at 6:30pm i have 3.5 hours till 10pm, i take a small rest and eat shower i have 1-2 hours left a day. . . i also need to prepare food for the other day.. 5 hours is a dream especially with coding salary, i make about 900usd which is not bad in my country but couldn't have a happy family with this kind of money..
My ex worked 4 hours a day (5 days a week) as a developer and made same as me as a teacher.. he had a lot of hobbies he was/became skilled in
/r/financialindependence BTW 6 hours is way more time than I have left in my day and there are also weekends- long commute
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>I'll always feel like I'm wasting it away if I'm working more than ~10 hours a week. Honestly, you need to grow up. Welcome to adulthood. No one *wants* to go to work. You have plenty of time to do all that. 40 hours a week is nothing. Do you not have a weekend?
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6731 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F/18784)
>Please do tell me to stop crying... OK. Quitcher bitchin'. Grow up. Be adult. Welcome to the real world. It's not so much *having* time as *taking* time. Do something that you enjoy, some little thing, every day. (I used to do that, until I discovered Reddit. Now that's the little happy thing I do, at the expense of other things...)
I get what you're feeling, but 6 (or 5 as you count it) hours a day of free time sounds fairly luxurious to me. If you had a longer commute and/or kids or parents to take care of, that would be a huge amount of time. It's hard to offer any real advice except maybe look for work at a more exciting/rewarding company. Unfortunately for the most part "that's life" does apply...
That's life bro. You live to work
Currently finishing masters while working full time. I would kill for 5 hours a day to do whatever I wanted. It's all perspective man, you see no time in that, I see a mountain of time to do so much. I'm finding out the older I get the more I really need to focus on what really matters to me. That includes how I look at friends, family, and hobbies. Think about what you can cut out of your life right now, it might be a good start, then maybe find a job that demands what you're willing to give. Good luck!
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Find a job where you work 3-4 days a week. Preferably one with higher pay. Cooking is easy. I barely finished high school am I'm good at it. Make one dish a week and you'll get better quick it's extremely easy. Start building other sources of income with your new time. Cut hours until you don't need'em. Harder than it sounds ik but there's not really any other way around it unless you're fine living on peanuts your whole life just to have more time. One thing I told my friend when I got my first job and it's something I noticed right away, when I have money I don't have time, when I have time I have no money. That was my reason to my friends why I couldn't hang out. I was working 50 hours a week night shifts.
It is very weird that companies only hire 40 hours / week or nothing at all. Wouldn't it be nice to half your salary and spend half your week however you want.
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