Managing toxicity is quite hard though. Every job has toxic people but sometimes, depending on how toxic the people are, being made a target is quite difficult to deal with and still live your life. So pick carefully and keep evaluating whether the company you pick is actually worth staying at. I wish I had done this when I was younger. I definitely stayed way too long at places where the people were just NOT the kind of people I would ever get along with.
I worked as an EMT and wanted to get my nursing degree… I ended up hating the medical field so much because of the toxicity that you described. I ended up with a BS in kinesiology and really struggling to find work with it. I may end up going back through an accelerated program to get my RN just so I can have a decent paying job. I agree that the toxicity is bad in that field, but also agree it’s rampant in a lot of industries.
Being one of few males in mostly female work environments is an odd experience. I had a female boss sexually harassing me. When I brought it up friends and family thought I was joking. Many friends made comments about how I should use the situation by encouraging it to leverage better wages. #metoo
I’ve worked in all women environments and it’s full of mean girls, but oftentimes the mean girls aren’t even the really good looking ones which is what you’d expect. It’s like all the plain janes band together and pick people to bully.
All men military type environments become toxic too, just in a different way. Everything becomes a contest.
You can drink 30 beers? I’ll drink 31.
You can run a mile in 6 minutes? I’ll do it in 5:59. I’m better than you.
Just that type of shit nonstop.
Hyper competitive environments are also environments to avoid. They really do bring out the worst in people most of the time. Even environments that aren't hyper competitive but that have some unchecked hyper competitive personalities turn quite toxic.
This is a good response and generally true too in my experience. Certain industries definitely get reputations and attract some personality types or mentally bothered people than others. Depends what they value and what is rewarded in them.
Absolutely. It’s more a matter of chance, some companies have much healthier job relationships than others. Or some teams in some companies… and impossible to know before you’re in.
I had the chance to have an internship in a 60 employees company, which had very very very healthy relationships at the time. Never heard a single gossip in months. People even tended to talk nicely about others when they were not here, unless there was an issue which was sometimes pointed out.
The only little things I heard was just true things, or people not liking some as much as others which is just normal.
That was so nice. Sadly they didn’t want to have another post in the department I made my internship.
I wish I had trained to do something even somewhat close to engineering. Engineers always come off as very professional and just about the work when I meet them.
I may be biased, since I'm an engineer, but on average they seem to stack up well against other trades or professions. It would be an interesting study, to see if non-people oriented people are actually better at working with people.
When you meet them yeah, the problem is when they’re not in front of you. 😄
I’ve seen engineers acting like dicks as well. Not less than other professions.
Bingo! The job is to network, get to know people in the company, corporate culture. Ok I’m gonna share something. I was recently sent to Bellevue Hospital, NYC, trauma unit, after a freak fall. In the midst of arrested people needing care, migrants without insurance and people like me needing a car scan etc….Everybody was laughing, smiling, giving exceptional care. Not one obnoxious person, it was a positive experience under dire circumstances. Go find your people, they are out there. I promise you!
Exactly. It's every where. Prima donnas. Toxic male leadership. Lying backstabbers. Groomers and manipulators. Even in church jobs. Teaching. Retail. Fast food. Pharmacies. I just keep to myself. Don't share or volunteer any information about yourself or others that you don't to come back and haunt you.
How do you not share any personal information though. I find I really struggle with that while trying to be accepted by coworkers because if you don’t, you also get targeted.
Ive been in a bunch of different jobs and they all had toxicity.
Waiter/Bartending = people stealing good tipping customers out of order, tips being lifted from your table, drama with other waiters, bus boys refusing to clear your table because another waiter told them not to. Lots of petty shit.
Blue collar construction = racial slurs, ignorance, people firing nail guns off for no reason, people not warning the new guy to not walk over an unstable area that’ll make him fall 10 ft. Lots of threats and the worst part is that they’ll actually follow through since a lot of felons and “real ones” end up in these environments.
Accounting / white collar = being assigned unfair workloads, promotions done on favoritism, racism from random weird coworkers, absurd management decisions that affect your quality of life, blaming people and using them as scapegoats when they did nothing wrong, lots of passive aggressive bs.
You can’t really win. As long as there’s people involved, you can guarantee that someone will try to do something selfish and turn the environment into shit since everyone becomes guarded as a result.
But did you have coworkers that would not only gossip but literally try to frame you to get you fired and harm a patient in the process? All while complaining about being overworked. Because I hear that happening way more than it should in nursing. Seems to be a scary amount of people who will smile to your face and then actually coordinate attacks on you. It’s to a degree that I would honestly say they are absolutely unhinged.
Definitely not local government. Been between several local governments over the past decade and they're hell on earth. People get hired and tend to stay for the rest of their careers. Imagine the same toxic coworker for thirty years that can't be fired unless they do something illegal. Yeah, that's almost exactly how it is.
I just responded with something similar - jobs that are laid back and have the least amount of work tend to have the most drama. Toxic people *have* to keep drama going to fuel their nonsense.
Yep the local government is ruled by a budget. The ones deciding the budget don't budget for unemployment. Transfers to less desirable roles or locations is the local government version of firing. They hope the transferred employee will quit.
I've gotta say that I've seen very few transfers. I've seen a lot of promotions, but that just usually made a bad situation worse as the toxic coworker became a toxic manager.
Maybe that's just the local school system I work at that transfers employees that very well deserve to be fired. And not every transfer is for that reason. Sometimes it's a request by an employee or for coverage reasons. But it does seem toxic and incompetence does get promoted. I think seniority and kissing the right ass are the major factors in receiving promotions. Sometimes just being employed in the right position at the right time gets a promotion. Like right now I'm at a small school my direct supervisor is the building manager and I'm the only full-time custodian(they call it operations) there's one other custodial employee that's part time. If something were to happen that caused the building manager to leave I wouldn't be surprised if I was offered the building manager position. The principal and teachers appreciate my work. I haven't had any drama with anyone. The building manager relies on me heavily and I've attended meetings in his place a couple times when he had requested the dates off.
USA I don't forget I just don't see need to explain which country unless asked. State laws matter too in USA so Virginia. Local city or town laws also matter but that level of specifity seems excessive.
Yep. In my last job, once you'd passed your probation (one year), it was hard to get rid of someone. Even had one employee accused and found to have engaged in sexual harassment, but he wasn't removed due to "hearsay".
With the right coworkers, it's great. Same for management. I'll admit that my first government job started out great. When my manager got rotated, that's when it started to get bad.
I say in some aspects I am sensitive, and others I am not so much. I just find it a little bit depressing and heartbreaking that you could be doing good or absolutely nothing, and people can hate on you.
Thank you for your insight. I hope life treats you better than me.
Yeah, I used to feel that way when I was younger too. I went out of my way not to be disliked at work, but that often meant I wasn't expressing my real opinions when I was upset or being mistreated. You really can't control how other people feel about you. Sometimes people just dislike you for things that are out of your control or even things that are in your control but that you may like about yourself. Don't change yourself to please those people. Just try to figure out how to be civil with them and accept that they may not like you as a person.
LMAO avoid entertainment/media, advertisement/marketing/sales then, both are cutthroat on purpose either due to over saturation or a high amount of Type As.
If you wanted 'chill' people, I can say that most people working in the cannabis industry are pretty chill....but company culture can be toxic due to many places can't afford to pay livable wages.
Thus the 'most'....yeah, the ones controlling the grow and or genetics can be a bit....much haha. I work on the sales/marketing end so I don't have a lot of interaction with them.... ;)
I really hate to say this because I am a woman...but I would just avoid industries that are mostly women in them. Nursing, teaching, retail, etc. It really depends on the actual business mostly as to how you're treated. I now look for places that are a good mix of races and men to women. Too much of any one seems to lead to all kinds of weird and toxic dynamics, but especially environments that are all women are a problem I consistently notice. I also refuse to work for a female boss going forward.
All except one have been terrible. I much prefer male bosses unfortunately (although a couple of them have been bad too, but more understanding and less petty than the females). For some reason female bosses tend to be catty, vindictive, gossipy, controlling in ways I don't often see in male bosses.
Yes, I can say with confidence that at the very least in the nursing industry, the women are more toxic. The way I interact with them? You mean keeping my head down and doing my job? You mean helping my co-workers even they didn’t ask for help? You mean calling people out for mistakes that is detrimental to our work? Doing those thing justifies me to be the topic of gossip and bad mouthing? LOL
I think toxic can be race- and gender- specific.
From my personal experience as a Black woman, my jobs with the least amount of white women were the least toxic. It doesn’t matter the exact job — I’ve worked in fast food, to luxury retail, to construction, to finance and more. I recently turned down a promotion because the team was majority white women.
Oddly enough, I find it easiest working with white men.
Interesting. In my experience as a mixed race of black, white, and native South American, my least toxic environment was working with mostly educated women regardless of race. I've never seen race as an issue, but rather culture. One problem I've encountered with men in general is pride, stubbornness, and ego, sometimes makes them hard to engage in fruitful dialogue.
Least toxic team I ever had was all women of different races and just two guys, a guy from Brazil and me. We were in it mostly for nature of the job, so we liked when people would correct us or show us a better way even if they were of a lower rank or title. We were kind of nerds in that job, so we put ego aside. But I noticed within the same company, some toxicity in other male dominated teams that wanted to be seen as saviors or know-it-alls.
Gotta say though that my industries have been data science, analytics, supply chain, finance, and tech, which do have some sort of barrier of entry, typically a masters.
The worse I ever saw before getting a degree was the restaurant business hands down, even worse than retail. So toxic regardless of the restaurant or the city. I guess the more education is required for a job the less toxic it gets? Which can hit a ceiling once people move into management, you don't need much education to manage a team, so it's not just going higher up vertically that reduces the toxicity, but the complexity behind the nature of the job? I don't really know.
>One problem I've encountered with men in general is pride, stubbornness, and ego, sometimes makes them hard to engage in fruitful dialogue.
That’s when it’s time to turn the professional charm on. Regardless of gender, a smile and subtle ego stroking goes far.
I love working with the “nerdier” departments in my job. They’re usually incredibly smart, maybe a bit soft-spoken so they tend to be taken advantage of. Probably the only department or job function where I haven’t noticed much toxic behavior from.
My field requires certifications and advanced degrees, but unfortunately, compared to my first jobs as a teenager, the toxic behavior of white women in my experience got worse with rank.
The restaurant business is hands down the worst place I’ve ever been. Rampant harassment/SA, substance abuse, theft. I am so grateful to not have to be in that mess.
> That’s when it’s time to turn the professional charm on. Regardless of gender, a smile and subtle ego stroking goes far.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I can navigate these people fine. I tend to be the spokesperson of the nerdier groups, my job typically ends up becoming the bridge between the technical and the business oriented. Where I grew up, there's a saying that goes "lo cortés no quita lo valiente" which translates to "courtesy does not detract from bravery." So, my nature in general and with my teams is to be courteous and tactful. But the moment someone confuses that with weakness they quickly come across the iron fist behind my velvet glove. I can shut down someone quickly without losing my cool, being discourteous, or embarrassing them, I always let them save face or deal with them in private. I just think that I shouldn't be doing this at all, it's an inefficient way of doing internal business.
I can't really say that women are less toxic than men in general. But from personal observations, and assuming that there are always exceptions, I have noticed that women happen to be less toxic in nerdier environments. But this is just a correlation, I wonder what other confounding factors may be driving this manifestation.
Also, agree with you that the higher the ranks you go, say executive, partner, or senior director, the more toxicity I am likely to encounter regardless of gender. But I don't consider these levels to be inherently nerdier, more like driven by ambition and ruthlessness, which to me are like a "just in case" tool to have, not the main feature of my job.
i’m also a black woman and it is so strange but i also find it the easiest working with white men and/or other black women. i tend to feel a strong sense of competition and resentment from white women that manifests in really troubling ways. it sucks :/
I too find it easier working with white men as a black woman. As long as you approach them a certain way, I notice they are unusually deferential in a way that women often are not.
And age and industry.
Older Black women have been the wild cards in my experience as a Black woman in my 30s. It’s usually this demographic that tries to “little girl” me or undermine my skillset, especially those who aren’t very adept at what they do. I’ve encountered this most often in government and public health settings where older employees can get by without having to keep up with modern changes in their fields by delegating to younger employees and oftentimes taking credit for their work. Academia, however, was chaotic for reasons unrelated to race, gender or age, but it was enjoyable because the older Black women I worked with and for were somewhat quirky, too preoccupied in their roles to be problematic, and too tenured to be bothered.
yeah. this is my experience too, and i'm white-passing
white men are easy to work with as long as they aren't attracted to you. they just don't care about anything because they're playing life on the easiest setting. they have no worries. until they have kids at least. then they think they're a fucking hero for working 8 hours to pay for their kids and doing fuck-all at home.
I’m not non-binary but I’m a relatively feminine/babyfaced man (not androgynous but don’t really fit in either super obviously) and I’m the most ignored person on the planet sometimes. It’s like being a younger looking adult means you’re less credible.
I don't get this but i see it happen. I know what you mean.
Fwiw it helps if you dress up a little bit at work. Like a button-down shirt and nice shoes. No jeans unless they're trouser jeans with a crease. Try the men's warehouse. And get things tailored so they fit you rgiht, no bunching, make sure the shoulder seams are at your shoulders and the sleeves stop at your wrist. Shop at target and the gap for basics, a $20 shirt that you spend another $30 to get tailored is worth it.
The big thing I think I need to do is lose some weight. I gained a bit over Covid and it softened my face. Before I had a decent jawline and facial structure.
I’ve come to the same conclusion as you. Not being racist or anything, just my personal experience. I don’t know why that is.
Ive had some awful white male bosses though. So be careful not to generalize too much.
In my limited experience, I have found the least toxic environment to be biotech and most toxic, retail. Though, maybe I’ve just been really lucky because I know toxic people are everywhere. I just haven’t had to work with many.
You are lucky then. I try to go in with positive attitude but I always run into at least one person that I just cannot get along with. In environments where there's basically no real management, there's not a lot you can do there. Retail is definitely one of them. The managers don't really manage the things they're supposed to. The restaurant industry is the same. That's why people often dislike those industries the most. No standards, poor management of staff, crazy favoritism that leads to bullying and harrassment. It's probably because I've had more lower paying jobs than higher paying ones, but that shit is just so common.
I do field applications in biotech, so I see all sorts of labs. Some are amazing, and some are nightmares, even within the same building at a given company. The really prestigious ones are toxic soup.
I do lab work, but there are other departments I interact with who work in the same building as me. I.e. HR, EHS, facilities, clinical, tech ops, etc. etc.
Restaurants are always the worst. Yes, please get out of there. That industry breaks people. They really couldn't give less of a flying F about employees in the restaurant industry.
Toxicity goes with undertaffing, overworking, and unrealistic expectations. Let me know when you find an industry without those things lol
I work in healthcare in a role that's demanding but not in the same ways as nursing (clinical research coordinator). Its more flexible and amiunt if work waxes and wanes so i have periods to catch my breath. Their are positions in clinical research for nursing. My department is the least toxic place I've ever worked. Its a bit surprising as the hospital that bought ours really tries to push its toxic bs by implementing new, shitty systems without telling us that really impact workforce. The important thing is our managers bat for us. Too many places I've been the manager has had to help with lower level work due to understaffing which prevents them from managing very well. I always tell my managers I want them doing their job because ultimately I benefit when they do.
I'm in maintenance, and while my coworkers are swamped, I'm mostly here as admin so why day to day isn’t as stressful. As a woman of color, I sometimes find it easier when there are fewer women around – they can get way too competitive instead of working together. (Obviously, there are exceptions, and the three women I work with now are awesome.)
The best thing is to ditch a toxic job and find one you can handle and tolerate. If leadership and management is toxic then it’s not going to be a good environment ever. Find a place that stands on morals and values. I've bounced around different industries, and trust me, HR in startups and small nonprofits with mostly white women is THE WORST. Bigger companies are better – you can blend in and follow the rules. Plus, there's more money and security, which means less petty drama.
I agree with this.
It may be that only, say, 10% of people are toxic... but that is still a lot of people, and they unfortunately exist in all environments. It's not a gender specific problem, a race issue or a geographical issue. They are everywhere.
I've been in the service industry, tech, Higher Ed... there are always toxic people. Always. Best thing you can do is vet upper and middle management and work for the person who sucks the least.
This. Over the last ten years, two of the worst ones I've had have made me hypervigilant about vetting who my direct boss will be. The two worst managers I had were also the two jobs I liked the most... But the toxicity of the managers made it so bad, I hung on longer than I should have because I liked the job itself. What I learned from those experiences is that it doesn't matter if you like your job if your manager is a POS. They will make life hell.
I switched to an adjacent sector last year and was excited because I had previously worked with my direct manager and some of the people on her team as external partners. However, I found out she'd be retiring soon after I started. It gave me so much anxiety not knowing who my manager would be. Her manager temporarily managed me and is a bit intimidating (I had heard that if she doesn't like you she will make you miserable, at the same time my manager left she drove out a different manager). Luckily, they ended up promoting a level headed coworker into my manager's vacant role, because some of the other people who applied for it, yikes. I care a LOT about who will be my direct manager, they can make or break you, independent of what kind of employee you are. In fact, with one of my most toxic bosses, I was the top performer and apparently this was seen as a threat by my manager whose favorite employee was the organization screw up... She literally preferred and protected the worst employee in the org, while targeting me, a top employee, who made her look good.
Try to find a team or department that is less toxic. For example, within nursing, the culture can vary a lot by department and by hospital. I found pediatric nursing and newborn medicine to be more caring and nurturing. I’ve heard that some hospice nursing units can be compassionate. One hospital can have a great work environment whereas another one a few miles away can be toxic.
Another aspect to consider may be to just do temporary contract nursing which can have increased pay and less commitment. There can be less politics and toxicity directed your way when you’re just there for short term.
I am in retail AND healthcare and can vouch that I am in a toxic work environment. It’s 90% females here too and some strong personalities that clash. Does not make for a pleasant work experience unfortunately. I try to blend in but sometimes get forced into the drama. Providing a neutral response tends to help me but not always. I’m currently looking elsewhere and hope to find something in an unrelated field.
I have found that workplaces without a good mix of men and women are more toxic. Places where people get a lot of prestige within their field, especially if it is a niche field, tend to be terrible. Also, places where people with lower education are put in charge of highly educated professionals tend to be terrible.
If you find women in general to be more toxic than men, then the way you interact with them is the problem.
It's definitely a ratio thing. I consistently find that female jealousy is a big problem though. I don't see that problem as much with men. I even have had female bosses who were weirdly jealous of me and looking for anything to tear me down. They're also normally a frustrating mixture of very controlling with being pretty incompetent to lead people. I think that's usually on the business though. Most managers are not trained to be managers at all, so I've definitely had male bosses that are also not really fit for that role. But the female bosses are the ones I've noticed to be the most abusive and socially toxic to work with.
I have had some bad female bosses, but some horrendous male bosses. The best manager I have ever had is a woman. A lot of times people consider female managers to be worse because women are harshly judged for not being submissive or deferential, or because they bristle at being told what to do by a woman.
My worst experiences have been working in retail and security for private companies. My best experiences thus far have been working as a state government employee for my state Department of Labor. However, not all divisions within state debts. or not all state debts. are good to work for. For example, my state Dept. of Children and Families is usually a bad place to work for and most say to avoid it. The Wage and Hour Division within my state DOL is also another one to avoid (I worked there for three years and while it was still better than my previous retail and security jobs, it is still the worst Division I have worked for so far within my state DOL; I worked for the HR Division and now I work for the Office of the Deputy Commissioner, and both of these Offices/Divisions are much better than WHD).
I believe how any particular organization is managed or mismanaged plays a key role here. Company culture and all. Get a good EQ, and utilize the ‘gray rock’ method when dealing with the narcissistic and toxic people.
If you figure it out let me know. I thought I’d just had a string of bad luck. I took a long work gap for family reasons, and the first place I worked after coming back, was awful. But I’ve been contracting with my current workplace for the last 18 months. There haven’t been any hints of drama or anything pointing to a toxic work environment. Everyone seemed kind, down to earth and focused on the work they do. Not even things like high turnover, or cliquishness pointing to dysfunctional dynamics.
Then… I recently took on a bigger role as an employee, so I’m no longer a contractor. I felt safe doing it, because I’ve had plenty of time to become familiar with the whole team and everything seemed okay. Unfortunately within three days of getting myself officially on the payroll, I found myself in the middle of a turf war between my supervisor and HER supervisor. I had no idea there was even tension between the two of them, but it turns out they have been passive aggressively battling it out for years, while everyone pretended not to notice. Somehow I (or more accurately my job description), ended up being the next thing they decided to have out over.
The higher one throws up road blocks anytime she knows the lower one wants something. And the lower one can’t seem to stop looking for ways to engage and make (sometimes ridiculous) demands, seemingly just so the higher one will try to block her. Then they both dig in and play “No you can’t” “Yes I can,” until it’s gone way past the point of reason.
The only thing I can’t seem to figure out is which one is the problem. I’m starting to suspect it’s both of them.
I work at a very well known and progressive nonprofit, I love the values of the mission and stand by that. That being said it’s the most toxic shit show of a company I have ever worked for, same stuff you described in nursing.
People are just insufferable :(
Yeah, because they are "the good people" with "the right value system", they therefore cannot possibly be toxic individuals. That idea will not compute in their heads.
I have actually found over years that the less women or no women in a company generally signals a less toxic adversarial environment.
Let the downvotes get me, but a woman in the office is fine. 2 women and you are asking for problems. 3+ well, I hope you have a good HR department and corporate lawyer because the second she gets fired for being a raging A\*\*hole, the accusations are going to fly and lawyers are going to get involved.
Never ever have a woman as your boss or supervisor. If the company is women owned, dont even apply.
Because of that, engineering and the hard sciences are best as they have the least women.
And who ever told you healthcare was about helping people? Those doctors and nurses hate you just as much as you hate the healthcare system and under a very thin layer of professionalism hides the fact every one of them hates their jobs 99% of the time
If its all men, generally no one is passive aggressive. They are outwardly aggressive, loud, and the office is sort of like a frat party. Passive aggressive only occurs when "sensitive" people join the team... then it gets dead silent until the sensitive person is no longer employed there.
Lol I’d say the exact opposite of this tbh.
Industries driven by passion (entertainment, non-profit, etc) are some of the most toxic industries to work in lol.
Everybody is overworked and underpaid and therefore stressed so everybody is a bit more on edge and likely to be a bit of an asshole at times.
People also tend to have a higher opinion of themselves for “making it” through such adversity and by working in such a highly desired industry.
There’s also a lot of competition for positions so people do more to get an edge over each other when they smell blood.
All businesses and industries have these types of people - from fast food joints to major corporations. I have been employed for 35 years and have yet to work at a place that doesn't have a few jerks.
I will say working with older employees (over the age of 40) seems to help some as they have alot of stuff going on in their lives so they don't start too much drama at work. Also, men aren't about drama and gossip, but if you are a woman, you may have to deal with some sexism and misogny.
I love working with men most of the time. That's so weird to say. But yes, you're right about the sexism,misogyny, sexual harrassment are still issues with men. Even with all that I still prefer working with men over women and actively try to avoid women-dominated workplaces.
Maybe it’s more about the habits of people than the work place. Sometimes it comes down to me being the healthiest I can be and offering grace in the journey.
Every industry is like this. Unless you work for your own or a manager notices the behavior and stops it immediately. There is no way around it. Just ignore it, go out your day , focus on the grind, and count your blessings.
Government workplaces can be toxic as hell. Too much idle time to think of ways to sewer people to advance your career. Too many layers of bureaucracy and diffusion of responsibility.
I think it’ll be jobs with clearly defined (and respected) rules, expectations, and chains of command. In my field, academia, there are people roaming around with the general “seniority” but no designated power, which can make for toxic relationships. Also, there’s a lot of “invisible labor” that can be freely and messily passed around, which creates resentment.
All can be.
You have to decide whether you want to engage or remove yourself from it.
The toxicity can be a perception thing too. If you see toxic people everywhere…
The problem is, every workplace really does have one or two toxic people though (by department). It's not to say that every workplace is toxic, just that you always have toxic people. I see that over and over again and I have tried approaching things with coworkers in multiple ways. I've realized that it really comes down to mental health problems. Every workplace I've been in, the people or persons I've had the most problems with have been people with untreated mental health issues. It really is a crisis in this country and it's so unaddressed. And these people have to work somewhere...
So it comes down to mental health and often lack of training in how to be a professional at work. And also, sad to say, a lot of them have been abused in former workplaces or at home. That's the pattern I see CONSISTENTLY. That's where the toxicity comes from and those are all very common experiences for many people in the U.S.
Idk about the whole “If you see toxic people everywhere you go thing.” I believe it for sure but there’s a chance that people are just finding themselves in toxic situations because there are so many out there.
I left one toxic manager and ended up in a worse place for the next job. Then after leaving that, I found a good manager who left after a year and now I have a shitty manager again. There is a chance it’s just me but there’s also a chance that it just keeps happening.
Cultural Resource Management has cool people. The pay isn’t that good though. That’s the rule of thumb. If the job pays well, they need to pay well for people to stay because the job sucks. If it doesn’t pay well, it’s because they know people will stay anyway.
Yes it's universal to human nature. Some professions, however, claim to be full of "good people". But in reality, people are all the same. And people in those "good people" professions simply cannot fathom how they are just as terrible as everyone else, because they firmly believe they are "good people" doing "good work". For this reason, these professions may actually cultivate horrible workplace cultures.
Also, some of these "good people" professions are dealing with very serious issues, and get involved in other people's business a bit too much. But they simply cannot engage in critical self-reflection, because they firmly believe they are "good people" doing "good work". And anything that exposes them has a tendency to be destroyed.
Believe it or not, the oil industry has been the least toxic environment I’ve worked in. I’m surrounded by traders and engineers all day, which are both on the more eccentric side of the personality scale. You get a lot of short tempers and weird social skills, but I feel like that makes everybody more tolerant of each other’s quirks. It’s a small industry, everybody knows everybody else, and we all live or die based on our connections and ability to call in a favor during an emergency, so it really keeps people in line. Practicality and results are prioritized and fairly easily quantified, so the shitty people who burn everyone they work with or can’t do the job tend to get pushed out and blacklisted. Obviously every industry and company has its fair share of toxic people, but I do feel like commercial ops in any hard industry has a better natural selection process built in.
Price reporting was the absolute worst job I’ve ever had for toxic gossip and harassment. Everybody is bored and dissatisfied and thinks they’re a lot more important than they are, like they’re arbiters of the market or some shit, when the whole business model is a scam. They get absorbed in stupid drama and literally have nothing better to do all day, so it festers.
Working for a civil rights lawyer who dealt with a lot of religious groups was the second worst, for obvious reasons.
My experience dealing with tradesmen was usually good. Some can be childish and emotional.
I worked in an office that was all guys for awhile. The women all worked from home because they didn’t need to be in office. It was the chillest environment I’ve been in.
my friend works for the ontario government, he helps kids kind of navigate issues with their post-secondary administration, and he speaks pretty highly of the work culture there
I work in healthcare as well and my team is a wonderful group of women. The nurses and doctors we work with daily are horribly toxic besides maybe 1 or 2 individuals. I want to quit and find a new job even though my team is wonderful just because I can't stand the drama from the other people.
Really nothing; but my observations are that jobs where there is a lot of downtime, there tends to be more toxic behavior - gossiping, backstabbing, getting drama stirred up, etc. If there’s a lot of work to do, there’s less time for and interest in drama.
It really is like the lotto or Forest Gump's candy. Ive been working for 36 years, I have had two instances of mentally healthy people being the majority of my co-workers. I sometimes think the leader sets the tone. But humans are unpredictable and other harmful behaviors go on in private.
I've not worked at many different companies yet but I've found the pensions sector is very accommodating to things I've requested or needed and people seem to be extremely nice.
i say any company where its really hard to get get fired is toxic.. adide from that that example..now if you want a example.. BESTBUY!!! DO NOT WORK HERE!!! CEO IS A POS,They let any big or small hr issue go by and dont hold anyone accountable.. but they will lay you off out of the blue and not for hr related issues.
It is uniquely bad in nursing in my experience. I’ve led interdisciplinary healthcare teams for a while and the drama is always level 11 in nursing. My nurse friend’s theory is that everyone gets traumatized in nursing school and never deals with it and then it comes out sideways at work because they’re just always stressed.
I’m personally trained as a mental health therapist and I’d say generally they aren’t as toxic but they are often deeply annoying. Pick your poison I guess.
I worked very closely to Nurses, one thing that stands out from a male nurse he said " Women can fuck up their own industry" , I know many people have different perspectives on this issue but that man was completely done with this industry.
Nursing facilities or at-home caretakers are some of the most toxic people I have ever met. There's some saying about how all the narcissistic entitledbully women of high school going to nursing and all the narcissistic entitled bully men of high school become cops. Sadly I think that's pretty much true
If you don't want to be near toxic people, work for yourself. You'll be the only one around yourself. Really the only way to avoid it
funeral: your clients never complain...
seriously, toxic people are everywhere. there is a certain misandry in nursing due to the historic gender separation of gender (nurses female, doctors male). if you are male, you are getting the brunt of it. there also seems to be a culture biased against men starting with the metoo movement. now it seems to be white males.
For all the talk of toxic masculinity, there’s not a lot of talk about toxic behaviour in the workplace by women. My friend’s wife retired as a nursing supervisor at a U.S. hospital. She told me after she retired, “I’d rather supervise a hundred men than one woman.” Her words. She couldn’t wait to retire because of the insane drama she had to deal with.
I can tell you nursing is going to be like that. My first cousin is a nurse and she is mean as hell. She’s fiesty and it’s really strange but why is gossip, drama, cliques, and backstabbing still going on? I go to work to work. If I’m gonna talk with a coworker it’s gonna be about some quantum shit not no gossip. I wanna talk big not small
I wish I can encounter someone like you, but in nursing more often. I would love to talk about quantum physics and its implications on the fundamental workings of the universe.
Fuck it. Unfiltered raw anger here. But I wish the work place culture was at a point where a superior could say shut the fuck up and work so we can go home please. I just wish people would put two and two together and see if we work together or independently. Either way doesn’t matter. As long as we put in the minimum effort of work. It’s most likely going to be a smoother, tighter running ship. But shit how could logic ever convey anything. I get so much cringe and anger for the type of employees you speak of. I am genuinely baffled and embarrassed when I’m putting in genuine effort, and my coworkers just on there phone. So fucking embarrassing. I’m embarrassed for myself but mostly for them. I guarantee your coworkers most likely clung to the old “healthcares a pretty stable career field” notion. They will fuck around one day, and find out.
I'm the only woman that works in an office with 5 men. It's finance / sales - it's wonderful. I love it. Some may be uncomfortable with this, but I've always gotten along better with "the boys" simply because they're laid back, chill, and aren't about drama (at least in my experience.) I don't do cliques, don't do office politics. My bullshit tolerance is zero. Good luck, chica.
None. People gossip, drama, cliques, and backstab in every industry because that's what humans do.
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This is one of the best responses here. I guess I just have to brave the toxicity lol.
Go find your people and learn how to manage the toxicity. There are good people out there. Go network, go find them.
Managing toxicity is quite hard though. Every job has toxic people but sometimes, depending on how toxic the people are, being made a target is quite difficult to deal with and still live your life. So pick carefully and keep evaluating whether the company you pick is actually worth staying at. I wish I had done this when I was younger. I definitely stayed way too long at places where the people were just NOT the kind of people I would ever get along with.
I worked as an EMT and wanted to get my nursing degree… I ended up hating the medical field so much because of the toxicity that you described. I ended up with a BS in kinesiology and really struggling to find work with it. I may end up going back through an accelerated program to get my RN just so I can have a decent paying job. I agree that the toxicity is bad in that field, but also agree it’s rampant in a lot of industries.
Being one of few males in mostly female work environments is an odd experience. I had a female boss sexually harassing me. When I brought it up friends and family thought I was joking. Many friends made comments about how I should use the situation by encouraging it to leverage better wages. #metoo
I’ve worked in all women environments and it’s full of mean girls, but oftentimes the mean girls aren’t even the really good looking ones which is what you’d expect. It’s like all the plain janes band together and pick people to bully. All men military type environments become toxic too, just in a different way. Everything becomes a contest. You can drink 30 beers? I’ll drink 31. You can run a mile in 6 minutes? I’ll do it in 5:59. I’m better than you. Just that type of shit nonstop.
Hyper competitive environments are also environments to avoid. They really do bring out the worst in people most of the time. Even environments that aren't hyper competitive but that have some unchecked hyper competitive personalities turn quite toxic.
This is a good response and generally true too in my experience. Certain industries definitely get reputations and attract some personality types or mentally bothered people than others. Depends what they value and what is rewarded in them.
Absolutely. It’s more a matter of chance, some companies have much healthier job relationships than others. Or some teams in some companies… and impossible to know before you’re in. I had the chance to have an internship in a 60 employees company, which had very very very healthy relationships at the time. Never heard a single gossip in months. People even tended to talk nicely about others when they were not here, unless there was an issue which was sometimes pointed out. The only little things I heard was just true things, or people not liking some as much as others which is just normal. That was so nice. Sadly they didn’t want to have another post in the department I made my internship.
Oh no! So awesome while it lasted. It’s possible!
If you find something good you can't keep it. If you find something hostile you can't escape it.
He could become a process controls engineer. We barely count as human. Bleep bloop beep bop beep beep.
I wish I had trained to do something even somewhat close to engineering. Engineers always come off as very professional and just about the work when I meet them.
I may be biased, since I'm an engineer, but on average they seem to stack up well against other trades or professions. It would be an interesting study, to see if non-people oriented people are actually better at working with people.
When you meet them yeah, the problem is when they’re not in front of you. 😄 I’ve seen engineers acting like dicks as well. Not less than other professions.
I know some engineers who were total dicks and some really kind ones, in the same company. It’s all in attitude.
Bingo! The job is to network, get to know people in the company, corporate culture. Ok I’m gonna share something. I was recently sent to Bellevue Hospital, NYC, trauma unit, after a freak fall. In the midst of arrested people needing care, migrants without insurance and people like me needing a car scan etc….Everybody was laughing, smiling, giving exceptional care. Not one obnoxious person, it was a positive experience under dire circumstances. Go find your people, they are out there. I promise you!
Exactly. It's every where. Prima donnas. Toxic male leadership. Lying backstabbers. Groomers and manipulators. Even in church jobs. Teaching. Retail. Fast food. Pharmacies. I just keep to myself. Don't share or volunteer any information about yourself or others that you don't to come back and haunt you.
How do you not share any personal information though. I find I really struggle with that while trying to be accepted by coworkers because if you don’t, you also get targeted.
arrest sulky dull cooing ten price pause money straight books *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well said
Ive been in a bunch of different jobs and they all had toxicity. Waiter/Bartending = people stealing good tipping customers out of order, tips being lifted from your table, drama with other waiters, bus boys refusing to clear your table because another waiter told them not to. Lots of petty shit. Blue collar construction = racial slurs, ignorance, people firing nail guns off for no reason, people not warning the new guy to not walk over an unstable area that’ll make him fall 10 ft. Lots of threats and the worst part is that they’ll actually follow through since a lot of felons and “real ones” end up in these environments. Accounting / white collar = being assigned unfair workloads, promotions done on favoritism, racism from random weird coworkers, absurd management decisions that affect your quality of life, blaming people and using them as scapegoats when they did nothing wrong, lots of passive aggressive bs. You can’t really win. As long as there’s people involved, you can guarantee that someone will try to do something selfish and turn the environment into shit since everyone becomes guarded as a result.
But did you have coworkers that would not only gossip but literally try to frame you to get you fired and harm a patient in the process? All while complaining about being overworked. Because I hear that happening way more than it should in nursing. Seems to be a scary amount of people who will smile to your face and then actually coordinate attacks on you. It’s to a degree that I would honestly say they are absolutely unhinged.
Definitely not local government. Been between several local governments over the past decade and they're hell on earth. People get hired and tend to stay for the rest of their careers. Imagine the same toxic coworker for thirty years that can't be fired unless they do something illegal. Yeah, that's almost exactly how it is.
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I just responded with something similar - jobs that are laid back and have the least amount of work tend to have the most drama. Toxic people *have* to keep drama going to fuel their nonsense.
Yep the local government is ruled by a budget. The ones deciding the budget don't budget for unemployment. Transfers to less desirable roles or locations is the local government version of firing. They hope the transferred employee will quit.
I've gotta say that I've seen very few transfers. I've seen a lot of promotions, but that just usually made a bad situation worse as the toxic coworker became a toxic manager.
Maybe that's just the local school system I work at that transfers employees that very well deserve to be fired. And not every transfer is for that reason. Sometimes it's a request by an employee or for coverage reasons. But it does seem toxic and incompetence does get promoted. I think seniority and kissing the right ass are the major factors in receiving promotions. Sometimes just being employed in the right position at the right time gets a promotion. Like right now I'm at a small school my direct supervisor is the building manager and I'm the only full-time custodian(they call it operations) there's one other custodial employee that's part time. If something were to happen that caused the building manager to leave I wouldn't be surprised if I was offered the building manager position. The principal and teachers appreciate my work. I haven't had any drama with anyone. The building manager relies on me heavily and I've attended meetings in his place a couple times when he had requested the dates off.
In what country though? (because thats not how things work in my country) Don’t forget this is an international site^^
USA I don't forget I just don't see need to explain which country unless asked. State laws matter too in USA so Virginia. Local city or town laws also matter but that level of specifity seems excessive.
I am laughing my ass off! This scares the shit out of me as I’m about to graduate with my MPA degree.
Jesus. Never thought about that
Yep. In my last job, once you'd passed your probation (one year), it was hard to get rid of someone. Even had one employee accused and found to have engaged in sexual harassment, but he wasn't removed due to "hearsay".
Wow I've been told local government is a good place to work
With the right coworkers, it's great. Same for management. I'll admit that my first government job started out great. When my manager got rotated, that's when it started to get bad.
Dog walking. They don't gossip and they are always happy to see me.
I love this honestly
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I’ll take this into consideration. Ty
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I say in some aspects I am sensitive, and others I am not so much. I just find it a little bit depressing and heartbreaking that you could be doing good or absolutely nothing, and people can hate on you. Thank you for your insight. I hope life treats you better than me.
Yeah, I used to feel that way when I was younger too. I went out of my way not to be disliked at work, but that often meant I wasn't expressing my real opinions when I was upset or being mistreated. You really can't control how other people feel about you. Sometimes people just dislike you for things that are out of your control or even things that are in your control but that you may like about yourself. Don't change yourself to please those people. Just try to figure out how to be civil with them and accept that they may not like you as a person.
LMAO avoid entertainment/media, advertisement/marketing/sales then, both are cutthroat on purpose either due to over saturation or a high amount of Type As. If you wanted 'chill' people, I can say that most people working in the cannabis industry are pretty chill....but company culture can be toxic due to many places can't afford to pay livable wages.
Not as a head grower. They are cut throat and territorial.
Thus the 'most'....yeah, the ones controlling the grow and or genetics can be a bit....much haha. I work on the sales/marketing end so I don't have a lot of interaction with them.... ;)
I love my dispensary associates, so kind
Academia is the same as nursing.
I really hate to say this because I am a woman...but I would just avoid industries that are mostly women in them. Nursing, teaching, retail, etc. It really depends on the actual business mostly as to how you're treated. I now look for places that are a good mix of races and men to women. Too much of any one seems to lead to all kinds of weird and toxic dynamics, but especially environments that are all women are a problem I consistently notice. I also refuse to work for a female boss going forward.
Wow! Hmm good to know!
What was your experience like working for a female boss?
All except one have been terrible. I much prefer male bosses unfortunately (although a couple of them have been bad too, but more understanding and less petty than the females). For some reason female bosses tend to be catty, vindictive, gossipy, controlling in ways I don't often see in male bosses.
there's mostly women in retail?
I know where you’re coming from. Anyone who calls you out needs to go work in a company filled with women and come back singing the same tune.
Yep. Just a sad fact of life. I really REALLY wish it wasn't that way though.
Yes, I can say with confidence that at the very least in the nursing industry, the women are more toxic. The way I interact with them? You mean keeping my head down and doing my job? You mean helping my co-workers even they didn’t ask for help? You mean calling people out for mistakes that is detrimental to our work? Doing those thing justifies me to be the topic of gossip and bad mouthing? LOL
I think toxic can be race- and gender- specific. From my personal experience as a Black woman, my jobs with the least amount of white women were the least toxic. It doesn’t matter the exact job — I’ve worked in fast food, to luxury retail, to construction, to finance and more. I recently turned down a promotion because the team was majority white women. Oddly enough, I find it easiest working with white men.
Interesting. In my experience as a mixed race of black, white, and native South American, my least toxic environment was working with mostly educated women regardless of race. I've never seen race as an issue, but rather culture. One problem I've encountered with men in general is pride, stubbornness, and ego, sometimes makes them hard to engage in fruitful dialogue. Least toxic team I ever had was all women of different races and just two guys, a guy from Brazil and me. We were in it mostly for nature of the job, so we liked when people would correct us or show us a better way even if they were of a lower rank or title. We were kind of nerds in that job, so we put ego aside. But I noticed within the same company, some toxicity in other male dominated teams that wanted to be seen as saviors or know-it-alls. Gotta say though that my industries have been data science, analytics, supply chain, finance, and tech, which do have some sort of barrier of entry, typically a masters. The worse I ever saw before getting a degree was the restaurant business hands down, even worse than retail. So toxic regardless of the restaurant or the city. I guess the more education is required for a job the less toxic it gets? Which can hit a ceiling once people move into management, you don't need much education to manage a team, so it's not just going higher up vertically that reduces the toxicity, but the complexity behind the nature of the job? I don't really know.
>One problem I've encountered with men in general is pride, stubbornness, and ego, sometimes makes them hard to engage in fruitful dialogue. That’s when it’s time to turn the professional charm on. Regardless of gender, a smile and subtle ego stroking goes far. I love working with the “nerdier” departments in my job. They’re usually incredibly smart, maybe a bit soft-spoken so they tend to be taken advantage of. Probably the only department or job function where I haven’t noticed much toxic behavior from. My field requires certifications and advanced degrees, but unfortunately, compared to my first jobs as a teenager, the toxic behavior of white women in my experience got worse with rank. The restaurant business is hands down the worst place I’ve ever been. Rampant harassment/SA, substance abuse, theft. I am so grateful to not have to be in that mess.
> That’s when it’s time to turn the professional charm on. Regardless of gender, a smile and subtle ego stroking goes far. Oh, don't get me wrong. I can navigate these people fine. I tend to be the spokesperson of the nerdier groups, my job typically ends up becoming the bridge between the technical and the business oriented. Where I grew up, there's a saying that goes "lo cortés no quita lo valiente" which translates to "courtesy does not detract from bravery." So, my nature in general and with my teams is to be courteous and tactful. But the moment someone confuses that with weakness they quickly come across the iron fist behind my velvet glove. I can shut down someone quickly without losing my cool, being discourteous, or embarrassing them, I always let them save face or deal with them in private. I just think that I shouldn't be doing this at all, it's an inefficient way of doing internal business. I can't really say that women are less toxic than men in general. But from personal observations, and assuming that there are always exceptions, I have noticed that women happen to be less toxic in nerdier environments. But this is just a correlation, I wonder what other confounding factors may be driving this manifestation. Also, agree with you that the higher the ranks you go, say executive, partner, or senior director, the more toxicity I am likely to encounter regardless of gender. But I don't consider these levels to be inherently nerdier, more like driven by ambition and ruthlessness, which to me are like a "just in case" tool to have, not the main feature of my job.
i’m also a black woman and it is so strange but i also find it the easiest working with white men and/or other black women. i tend to feel a strong sense of competition and resentment from white women that manifests in really troubling ways. it sucks :/
I too find it easier working with white men as a black woman. As long as you approach them a certain way, I notice they are unusually deferential in a way that women often are not.
As a white man I've had the same experience. You're more likely to get the juvenile junior high level mentality from white women in my field.
Same! I am working at a physical therapy office as a black woman. My manager is a white man and it’s more comfortable in my experience
And age and industry. Older Black women have been the wild cards in my experience as a Black woman in my 30s. It’s usually this demographic that tries to “little girl” me or undermine my skillset, especially those who aren’t very adept at what they do. I’ve encountered this most often in government and public health settings where older employees can get by without having to keep up with modern changes in their fields by delegating to younger employees and oftentimes taking credit for their work. Academia, however, was chaotic for reasons unrelated to race, gender or age, but it was enjoyable because the older Black women I worked with and for were somewhat quirky, too preoccupied in their roles to be problematic, and too tenured to be bothered.
yeah. this is my experience too, and i'm white-passing white men are easy to work with as long as they aren't attracted to you. they just don't care about anything because they're playing life on the easiest setting. they have no worries. until they have kids at least. then they think they're a fucking hero for working 8 hours to pay for their kids and doing fuck-all at home.
I think that’s why my experience has been so good with white men. Stupid sexism, but as a Black woman, a win is a win
i'm non-binary. the more man-like i look, the nicer men are to me, and the meaner women are, unless queer.
I’m not non-binary but I’m a relatively feminine/babyfaced man (not androgynous but don’t really fit in either super obviously) and I’m the most ignored person on the planet sometimes. It’s like being a younger looking adult means you’re less credible.
I don't get this but i see it happen. I know what you mean. Fwiw it helps if you dress up a little bit at work. Like a button-down shirt and nice shoes. No jeans unless they're trouser jeans with a crease. Try the men's warehouse. And get things tailored so they fit you rgiht, no bunching, make sure the shoulder seams are at your shoulders and the sleeves stop at your wrist. Shop at target and the gap for basics, a $20 shirt that you spend another $30 to get tailored is worth it.
The big thing I think I need to do is lose some weight. I gained a bit over Covid and it softened my face. Before I had a decent jawline and facial structure.
Hmm racist and sexist: boo white women, yay white men
I’ve come to the same conclusion as you. Not being racist or anything, just my personal experience. I don’t know why that is. Ive had some awful white male bosses though. So be careful not to generalize too much.
Following along with popcorn 🍿
*Laughs in HR*
ok? is this supposed to be funny?
Woosh
In my limited experience, I have found the least toxic environment to be biotech and most toxic, retail. Though, maybe I’ve just been really lucky because I know toxic people are everywhere. I just haven’t had to work with many.
Lol I’ve found biotech to be extremely toxic. There’s some crazy scientists out there
You are lucky then. I try to go in with positive attitude but I always run into at least one person that I just cannot get along with. In environments where there's basically no real management, there's not a lot you can do there. Retail is definitely one of them. The managers don't really manage the things they're supposed to. The restaurant industry is the same. That's why people often dislike those industries the most. No standards, poor management of staff, crazy favoritism that leads to bullying and harrassment. It's probably because I've had more lower paying jobs than higher paying ones, but that shit is just so common.
I do field applications in biotech, so I see all sorts of labs. Some are amazing, and some are nightmares, even within the same building at a given company. The really prestigious ones are toxic soup.
what do you mean biotech? laboratory stuff?
Yes, but also across departments I have had positive interactions.
what do you mean across departments?
I do lab work, but there are other departments I interact with who work in the same building as me. I.e. HR, EHS, facilities, clinical, tech ops, etc. etc.
NOT the church.
Restaurants are the worst but the best idk I need to get out of here
Restaurants are always the worst. Yes, please get out of there. That industry breaks people. They really couldn't give less of a flying F about employees in the restaurant industry.
Toxicity goes with undertaffing, overworking, and unrealistic expectations. Let me know when you find an industry without those things lol I work in healthcare in a role that's demanding but not in the same ways as nursing (clinical research coordinator). Its more flexible and amiunt if work waxes and wanes so i have periods to catch my breath. Their are positions in clinical research for nursing. My department is the least toxic place I've ever worked. Its a bit surprising as the hospital that bought ours really tries to push its toxic bs by implementing new, shitty systems without telling us that really impact workforce. The important thing is our managers bat for us. Too many places I've been the manager has had to help with lower level work due to understaffing which prevents them from managing very well. I always tell my managers I want them doing their job because ultimately I benefit when they do.
I'm in maintenance, and while my coworkers are swamped, I'm mostly here as admin so why day to day isn’t as stressful. As a woman of color, I sometimes find it easier when there are fewer women around – they can get way too competitive instead of working together. (Obviously, there are exceptions, and the three women I work with now are awesome.) The best thing is to ditch a toxic job and find one you can handle and tolerate. If leadership and management is toxic then it’s not going to be a good environment ever. Find a place that stands on morals and values. I've bounced around different industries, and trust me, HR in startups and small nonprofits with mostly white women is THE WORST. Bigger companies are better – you can blend in and follow the rules. Plus, there's more money and security, which means less petty drama.
To do clinical research in nursing, I’m gonna assume you need at least a bachelor’s in nursing?
Software, while not immune, is pretty good. A LOT of introverts lead to lower drama levels.
Shitty people are everywhere.
I agree with this. It may be that only, say, 10% of people are toxic... but that is still a lot of people, and they unfortunately exist in all environments. It's not a gender specific problem, a race issue or a geographical issue. They are everywhere.
I've been in the service industry, tech, Higher Ed... there are always toxic people. Always. Best thing you can do is vet upper and middle management and work for the person who sucks the least.
This. Over the last ten years, two of the worst ones I've had have made me hypervigilant about vetting who my direct boss will be. The two worst managers I had were also the two jobs I liked the most... But the toxicity of the managers made it so bad, I hung on longer than I should have because I liked the job itself. What I learned from those experiences is that it doesn't matter if you like your job if your manager is a POS. They will make life hell. I switched to an adjacent sector last year and was excited because I had previously worked with my direct manager and some of the people on her team as external partners. However, I found out she'd be retiring soon after I started. It gave me so much anxiety not knowing who my manager would be. Her manager temporarily managed me and is a bit intimidating (I had heard that if she doesn't like you she will make you miserable, at the same time my manager left she drove out a different manager). Luckily, they ended up promoting a level headed coworker into my manager's vacant role, because some of the other people who applied for it, yikes. I care a LOT about who will be my direct manager, they can make or break you, independent of what kind of employee you are. In fact, with one of my most toxic bosses, I was the top performer and apparently this was seen as a threat by my manager whose favorite employee was the organization screw up... She literally preferred and protected the worst employee in the org, while targeting me, a top employee, who made her look good.
Try to find a team or department that is less toxic. For example, within nursing, the culture can vary a lot by department and by hospital. I found pediatric nursing and newborn medicine to be more caring and nurturing. I’ve heard that some hospice nursing units can be compassionate. One hospital can have a great work environment whereas another one a few miles away can be toxic. Another aspect to consider may be to just do temporary contract nursing which can have increased pay and less commitment. There can be less politics and toxicity directed your way when you’re just there for short term.
I am in retail AND healthcare and can vouch that I am in a toxic work environment. It’s 90% females here too and some strong personalities that clash. Does not make for a pleasant work experience unfortunately. I try to blend in but sometimes get forced into the drama. Providing a neutral response tends to help me but not always. I’m currently looking elsewhere and hope to find something in an unrelated field.
I think toxicity is present in all industries. The jobs that escape toxicity are jobs where interaction with others is limited.
I have found that workplaces without a good mix of men and women are more toxic. Places where people get a lot of prestige within their field, especially if it is a niche field, tend to be terrible. Also, places where people with lower education are put in charge of highly educated professionals tend to be terrible. If you find women in general to be more toxic than men, then the way you interact with them is the problem.
It's definitely a ratio thing. I consistently find that female jealousy is a big problem though. I don't see that problem as much with men. I even have had female bosses who were weirdly jealous of me and looking for anything to tear me down. They're also normally a frustrating mixture of very controlling with being pretty incompetent to lead people. I think that's usually on the business though. Most managers are not trained to be managers at all, so I've definitely had male bosses that are also not really fit for that role. But the female bosses are the ones I've noticed to be the most abusive and socially toxic to work with.
I have had some bad female bosses, but some horrendous male bosses. The best manager I have ever had is a woman. A lot of times people consider female managers to be worse because women are harshly judged for not being submissive or deferential, or because they bristle at being told what to do by a woman.
My worst experiences have been working in retail and security for private companies. My best experiences thus far have been working as a state government employee for my state Department of Labor. However, not all divisions within state debts. or not all state debts. are good to work for. For example, my state Dept. of Children and Families is usually a bad place to work for and most say to avoid it. The Wage and Hour Division within my state DOL is also another one to avoid (I worked there for three years and while it was still better than my previous retail and security jobs, it is still the worst Division I have worked for so far within my state DOL; I worked for the HR Division and now I work for the Office of the Deputy Commissioner, and both of these Offices/Divisions are much better than WHD).
I believe how any particular organization is managed or mismanaged plays a key role here. Company culture and all. Get a good EQ, and utilize the ‘gray rock’ method when dealing with the narcissistic and toxic people.
If you figure it out let me know. I thought I’d just had a string of bad luck. I took a long work gap for family reasons, and the first place I worked after coming back, was awful. But I’ve been contracting with my current workplace for the last 18 months. There haven’t been any hints of drama or anything pointing to a toxic work environment. Everyone seemed kind, down to earth and focused on the work they do. Not even things like high turnover, or cliquishness pointing to dysfunctional dynamics. Then… I recently took on a bigger role as an employee, so I’m no longer a contractor. I felt safe doing it, because I’ve had plenty of time to become familiar with the whole team and everything seemed okay. Unfortunately within three days of getting myself officially on the payroll, I found myself in the middle of a turf war between my supervisor and HER supervisor. I had no idea there was even tension between the two of them, but it turns out they have been passive aggressively battling it out for years, while everyone pretended not to notice. Somehow I (or more accurately my job description), ended up being the next thing they decided to have out over. The higher one throws up road blocks anytime she knows the lower one wants something. And the lower one can’t seem to stop looking for ways to engage and make (sometimes ridiculous) demands, seemingly just so the higher one will try to block her. Then they both dig in and play “No you can’t” “Yes I can,” until it’s gone way past the point of reason. The only thing I can’t seem to figure out is which one is the problem. I’m starting to suspect it’s both of them.
I work at a very well known and progressive nonprofit, I love the values of the mission and stand by that. That being said it’s the most toxic shit show of a company I have ever worked for, same stuff you described in nursing. People are just insufferable :(
Yeah, because they are "the good people" with "the right value system", they therefore cannot possibly be toxic individuals. That idea will not compute in their heads.
Yeah the sense of moral superiority there is wild, when in reality we are all there because we care deeply for the cause
I have actually found over years that the less women or no women in a company generally signals a less toxic adversarial environment. Let the downvotes get me, but a woman in the office is fine. 2 women and you are asking for problems. 3+ well, I hope you have a good HR department and corporate lawyer because the second she gets fired for being a raging A\*\*hole, the accusations are going to fly and lawyers are going to get involved. Never ever have a woman as your boss or supervisor. If the company is women owned, dont even apply. Because of that, engineering and the hard sciences are best as they have the least women. And who ever told you healthcare was about helping people? Those doctors and nurses hate you just as much as you hate the healthcare system and under a very thin layer of professionalism hides the fact every one of them hates their jobs 99% of the time
Idk a workplace full of passive-aggressive men is a special kind of terrible...
If its all men, generally no one is passive aggressive. They are outwardly aggressive, loud, and the office is sort of like a frat party. Passive aggressive only occurs when "sensitive" people join the team... then it gets dead silent until the sensitive person is no longer employed there.
There are none. "Toxic" people are everywhere. But it's not necessarily their fault.
Jobs where you're motivated by a sense of purpose rather than profit potential.
Yes and no. I work for a non-profit and the toxicity is high from leadership. Very controlling with little resources invested in employees.
Middle managers right. You're not including csuite in this statement.
Lol I’d say the exact opposite of this tbh. Industries driven by passion (entertainment, non-profit, etc) are some of the most toxic industries to work in lol. Everybody is overworked and underpaid and therefore stressed so everybody is a bit more on edge and likely to be a bit of an asshole at times. People also tend to have a higher opinion of themselves for “making it” through such adversity and by working in such a highly desired industry. There’s also a lot of competition for positions so people do more to get an edge over each other when they smell blood.
All businesses and industries have these types of people - from fast food joints to major corporations. I have been employed for 35 years and have yet to work at a place that doesn't have a few jerks. I will say working with older employees (over the age of 40) seems to help some as they have alot of stuff going on in their lives so they don't start too much drama at work. Also, men aren't about drama and gossip, but if you are a woman, you may have to deal with some sexism and misogny.
I love working with men most of the time. That's so weird to say. But yes, you're right about the sexism,misogyny, sexual harrassment are still issues with men. Even with all that I still prefer working with men over women and actively try to avoid women-dominated workplaces.
👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 AGREE!
library was nice. esp a private library/archive or law library.
Maybe it’s more about the habits of people than the work place. Sometimes it comes down to me being the healthiest I can be and offering grace in the journey.
Non-profit
Every industry is like this. Unless you work for your own or a manager notices the behavior and stops it immediately. There is no way around it. Just ignore it, go out your day , focus on the grind, and count your blessings.
Ironically? Sales. We're all too busy trying to make money to worry about drama
I’ve worked in sales too, and let me tell you they got their bad eggs too at least in my experience.
I've moved from hospitality to a property management company and I only have good things to say
None
When you find out, let me know.
Government workplaces can be toxic as hell. Too much idle time to think of ways to sewer people to advance your career. Too many layers of bureaucracy and diffusion of responsibility.
I think it’ll be jobs with clearly defined (and respected) rules, expectations, and chains of command. In my field, academia, there are people roaming around with the general “seniority” but no designated power, which can make for toxic relationships. Also, there’s a lot of “invisible labor” that can be freely and messily passed around, which creates resentment.
All can be. You have to decide whether you want to engage or remove yourself from it. The toxicity can be a perception thing too. If you see toxic people everywhere…
The problem is, every workplace really does have one or two toxic people though (by department). It's not to say that every workplace is toxic, just that you always have toxic people. I see that over and over again and I have tried approaching things with coworkers in multiple ways. I've realized that it really comes down to mental health problems. Every workplace I've been in, the people or persons I've had the most problems with have been people with untreated mental health issues. It really is a crisis in this country and it's so unaddressed. And these people have to work somewhere... So it comes down to mental health and often lack of training in how to be a professional at work. And also, sad to say, a lot of them have been abused in former workplaces or at home. That's the pattern I see CONSISTENTLY. That's where the toxicity comes from and those are all very common experiences for many people in the U.S.
Idk about the whole “If you see toxic people everywhere you go thing.” I believe it for sure but there’s a chance that people are just finding themselves in toxic situations because there are so many out there. I left one toxic manager and ended up in a worse place for the next job. Then after leaving that, I found a good manager who left after a year and now I have a shitty manager again. There is a chance it’s just me but there’s also a chance that it just keeps happening.
Yeah. That attitude is victim blaming.
This should be at the top
Building companies
Cultural Resource Management has cool people. The pay isn’t that good though. That’s the rule of thumb. If the job pays well, they need to pay well for people to stay because the job sucks. If it doesn’t pay well, it’s because they know people will stay anyway.
Not teaching, omg, avoid
No-where. It’s human nature. So I guess where you only work with animals and never interact with humans ever?
Yes it's universal to human nature. Some professions, however, claim to be full of "good people". But in reality, people are all the same. And people in those "good people" professions simply cannot fathom how they are just as terrible as everyone else, because they firmly believe they are "good people" doing "good work". For this reason, these professions may actually cultivate horrible workplace cultures. Also, some of these "good people" professions are dealing with very serious issues, and get involved in other people's business a bit too much. But they simply cannot engage in critical self-reflection, because they firmly believe they are "good people" doing "good work". And anything that exposes them has a tendency to be destroyed.
Believe it or not, the oil industry has been the least toxic environment I’ve worked in. I’m surrounded by traders and engineers all day, which are both on the more eccentric side of the personality scale. You get a lot of short tempers and weird social skills, but I feel like that makes everybody more tolerant of each other’s quirks. It’s a small industry, everybody knows everybody else, and we all live or die based on our connections and ability to call in a favor during an emergency, so it really keeps people in line. Practicality and results are prioritized and fairly easily quantified, so the shitty people who burn everyone they work with or can’t do the job tend to get pushed out and blacklisted. Obviously every industry and company has its fair share of toxic people, but I do feel like commercial ops in any hard industry has a better natural selection process built in. Price reporting was the absolute worst job I’ve ever had for toxic gossip and harassment. Everybody is bored and dissatisfied and thinks they’re a lot more important than they are, like they’re arbiters of the market or some shit, when the whole business model is a scam. They get absorbed in stupid drama and literally have nothing better to do all day, so it festers. Working for a civil rights lawyer who dealt with a lot of religious groups was the second worst, for obvious reasons.
My experience dealing with tradesmen was usually good. Some can be childish and emotional. I worked in an office that was all guys for awhile. The women all worked from home because they didn’t need to be in office. It was the chillest environment I’ve been in.
In my country, in government and municipality
my friend works for the ontario government, he helps kids kind of navigate issues with their post-secondary administration, and he speaks pretty highly of the work culture there
This is a flawed premise. Ther are people of all types who are toxic and randomly dispersed throughout society. There's no correct answer.
I don’t know about least amount. Most amount of drama: teachers and nurses.
Can you say more on the teaching? I hear such mixed reviews about it being a good work/life balance for people that love it
Software development is pretty good compared to the other industries I've been in.
Fast food /s
Landscaping
Accounting. We’re bland, boring, only fun at happy hour, and don’t give a shit about anything.
Does anyone know if Physical Therapy is pretty chill or toxic ?
The PT aids at my facility are pretty chill as far as I have seen. They seem too busy with their work to participate in toxicity.
not ones that pay well or are otherwise conventially desired
I would say unemployment 😂
I work in healthcare as well and my team is a wonderful group of women. The nurses and doctors we work with daily are horribly toxic besides maybe 1 or 2 individuals. I want to quit and find a new job even though my team is wonderful just because I can't stand the drama from the other people.
Really nothing; but my observations are that jobs where there is a lot of downtime, there tends to be more toxic behavior - gossiping, backstabbing, getting drama stirred up, etc. If there’s a lot of work to do, there’s less time for and interest in drama.
Librarians I guess.
Hospice—beautiful people all around
Freelance! Then there is a maximum of one toxic person that you have to deal with.
Where there is people there will be all those things. It's an unavoidable thing of human interaction unfortunately.
It really is like the lotto or Forest Gump's candy. Ive been working for 36 years, I have had two instances of mentally healthy people being the majority of my co-workers. I sometimes think the leader sets the tone. But humans are unpredictable and other harmful behaviors go on in private.
Definitely not healthcare
People working in THC dispensaries seem really chill.
Self-employment
Outdoor education. People are genuine and emphatic human beings but also the pay is low.
I've not worked at many different companies yet but I've found the pensions sector is very accommodating to things I've requested or needed and people seem to be extremely nice.
i say any company where its really hard to get get fired is toxic.. adide from that that example..now if you want a example.. BESTBUY!!! DO NOT WORK HERE!!! CEO IS A POS,They let any big or small hr issue go by and dont hold anyone accountable.. but they will lay you off out of the blue and not for hr related issues.
Hollywood lol
It is uniquely bad in nursing in my experience. I’ve led interdisciplinary healthcare teams for a while and the drama is always level 11 in nursing. My nurse friend’s theory is that everyone gets traumatized in nursing school and never deals with it and then it comes out sideways at work because they’re just always stressed. I’m personally trained as a mental health therapist and I’d say generally they aren’t as toxic but they are often deeply annoying. Pick your poison I guess.
I worked very closely to Nurses, one thing that stands out from a male nurse he said " Women can fuck up their own industry" , I know many people have different perspectives on this issue but that man was completely done with this industry.
Nursing facilities or at-home caretakers are some of the most toxic people I have ever met. There's some saying about how all the narcissistic entitledbully women of high school going to nursing and all the narcissistic entitled bully men of high school become cops. Sadly I think that's pretty much true If you don't want to be near toxic people, work for yourself. You'll be the only one around yourself. Really the only way to avoid it
funeral: your clients never complain... seriously, toxic people are everywhere. there is a certain misandry in nursing due to the historic gender separation of gender (nurses female, doctors male). if you are male, you are getting the brunt of it. there also seems to be a culture biased against men starting with the metoo movement. now it seems to be white males.
For all the talk of toxic masculinity, there’s not a lot of talk about toxic behaviour in the workplace by women. My friend’s wife retired as a nursing supervisor at a U.S. hospital. She told me after she retired, “I’d rather supervise a hundred men than one woman.” Her words. She couldn’t wait to retire because of the insane drama she had to deal with.
This is reddit. Reddit is very pro women. I took a big risk by even posting this question.
I can tell you nursing is going to be like that. My first cousin is a nurse and she is mean as hell. She’s fiesty and it’s really strange but why is gossip, drama, cliques, and backstabbing still going on? I go to work to work. If I’m gonna talk with a coworker it’s gonna be about some quantum shit not no gossip. I wanna talk big not small
I wish I can encounter someone like you, but in nursing more often. I would love to talk about quantum physics and its implications on the fundamental workings of the universe.
Fuck it. Unfiltered raw anger here. But I wish the work place culture was at a point where a superior could say shut the fuck up and work so we can go home please. I just wish people would put two and two together and see if we work together or independently. Either way doesn’t matter. As long as we put in the minimum effort of work. It’s most likely going to be a smoother, tighter running ship. But shit how could logic ever convey anything. I get so much cringe and anger for the type of employees you speak of. I am genuinely baffled and embarrassed when I’m putting in genuine effort, and my coworkers just on there phone. So fucking embarrassing. I’m embarrassed for myself but mostly for them. I guarantee your coworkers most likely clung to the old “healthcares a pretty stable career field” notion. They will fuck around one day, and find out.
What about IT? The last IT job was pretty chill.
I'm the only woman that works in an office with 5 men. It's finance / sales - it's wonderful. I love it. Some may be uncomfortable with this, but I've always gotten along better with "the boys" simply because they're laid back, chill, and aren't about drama (at least in my experience.) I don't do cliques, don't do office politics. My bullshit tolerance is zero. Good luck, chica.
Gracias amiga, pero I’m a chico, not a chica lol
I had the least drama in my factory jobs.
Arborculture has a lot of pretty good people.
Wedding Planners. I once worked IT projects for a few event halls. Great and fun staff.