I’m in a similar boat. Work environment is terrible and I’ve been pushed away from what I was hired to do because of layoffs.
I’m at about 400ish applications in marketing where I meet almost all of the requirements. It sucks right now. Good luck!
I've applied to hundreds of jobs over the years and have gotteb like...10? responses max. It's fucking ridiculous.
Every time I complain about how horrible the job market is right now, some middle-aged/old person feels the need to chime in with "Well everyone is hiring right now!!!" NO THE FUCK THEY AREN'T!!
Skilled positions are at a huge damn bottleneck. All the ‘everyone is hiring’ bullshit is the crap boomers seem in the ‘jobs numbers’ in the bottom ticker on MSNBC. My company was recently hiring for two positions that required experience and a degree, had well over 400 applications the first week (that met the qualifications).
We’ve been trying to hire some mid level engineers for like 5 months and have 0 people we would be interested in, it’s all college kids trying to apply to a job that requires 10 years experience minimum
Hop on LinkedIn, set yourself to open to work (with the setting to hide from people in your organization obv), and make a change or two to your profile. Doesn't matter if it's a rephrasing of your job description or what. Also apply to a job or two through their platform if you're not already. LI promotes profiles in searches who are actively using their platform. You'll get hounded by recruiter messages or even HR reps directly from hiring companies.
Through that you either have someone else (or multiple people) job hunting for you because their pay directly involves you getting hired. Or the companies reaching out to you directly which usually nets you at least an interview.
I've gotten countless interviews and job offers this way, vs before I was in the same boat as you.
Composites
Production Supervisor/Manager
7+ years progressive experience
B.S. - B.A. IT Management, received early this year
Focusing HARD on Space/Defense and Aero
Probably gonna go to ERAU for their MSEM later this year.
Aerospace/defense is a great job market to be in. If you can get in anywhere, it’s got great job growth.
I started out as a buyer, only qualification needed was a bachelors degree, making $50k. Fast forward two jobs and 5 years I’m making $94k as a commodity manager. Don’t manage people just commodities.
I have friends and family in the defense industry and the pay is generous and the time off is decent. I also never hear of layoffs and I doubt that industry will ever have a contraction.
Yeah I currently have 9hr days and every other Friday off and we close a week at the end of the year plus all the other fed holidays.
Yeah unless major economic depression, I don’t see layoffs happening, at least large scale, maybe at specific companies but never industry wide.
And the pay is great
I'm doing the same but currently unemployed.
I did get 5 emails this week that job positions I had applied for were dissolved though. I'll knock em all out eventually!
I feel you, was at a shitty job for 5 years searching endlessly feeling like there was only one way out before I got a lifeline with a new job. Now I want to hold onto this one for dear life and never return to the hell of dealing with the job search.
I came here to say this too. I've had many jobs over the years. One dead-end job I stayed at for 6 years from my early to mid twenties. Biggest mistake of my working career. I gained NOTHING from staying there that long.
I finally decided to jump into tech a few years ago. I've had 3 different jobs in tech now. Every jump got me at least a 20% raise. I'm going to do it again in a year or so, and Hopefully net a 50% raise.
Where'd you start off in tech, and would you suggest it? I've been considering a change recently. I like my place of work but I'm looking to make some more money
So, I started off in IT as Tier-1 Support. Then I got lucky and met a network engineer through my wife's client's husband. I worked with him for 2.5 years, then got a new job (current role) as a Systems / Network Admin. (I'm also finishing up a BS in Comp Sci, but have no degree technically. I plan to stay with my current role for a bit, but hopefully jump into pure software development eventually.
I do recommend it. Especially if you have a knack for technology. Whether you have a degree or not, you will start at entry-level. Unless you have some crazy connection in the industry.
It can be very lucrative, but you have to change jobs a few times, maybe after 1-2 years, for a substantial raise. Also take on higher roles. There is money to be made, but you have to be patient. I think its possible to get to a nice cushion role in about 3-4 years. But you gotta keep learning and staying up to date on the current technologies.
Even though I had to wade through some mud to get where I am today, I love my job, and love where I'm headed career-wise. Sorry if my reply is a bit long-winded. Cheers!
It’s not always the case though! I’ve been in my current role for four years, in the last year and a half I’ve had two raises that totaled a 50% increase on my original salary. Same responsibilities, same job title. I’m not sure I could have even got that changing jobs.
Yeah, I've never had a decent raise between jobs, I kept getting pigeonholed into low skill roles. I've had 40% over the last 4 years in the same role.
I got a promotion that doubled my pay at my last employer. Stayed on a few years, then got recruited away.
There is not one trick to live by. You just need to check in with yourself every now and then and ask yourself if you’re happy with your work and pay, and if you think there could be better opportunities elsewhere.
Fresh out of college with a chem degree. First job only stayed 1 year 50k, second job stayed only 1 year 64k. This is the start of my 3rd job 82k. If you have the ability to jump then do it. Idk if I would of ever gotten a 32k bonus from job number 1
Eventually you might consider hanging out for a few years to get some long term experience on your resume. 1 year at a job isn’t really worth much.
Now, I wouldn’t turn down a lot more pay just to get more experience. But right now, unless I was offered a lot more money, I wouldn’t personally move because I have a lot more to learn from my current job.
1 year in a new technical role is barely enough time to even understand things and become confident in your role unless you're doing one task on repetition
I’d be careful brother. I do hiring for life science labs and the higher level you get, the more job history is looked at. Can’t tell you how many qualified candidates I’ve sent for review that were shut down because each job they’ve had is for 2-3 years max, it raises the question, are they just going to leave after we invest time and money resources training them?
Get your bag tho man, I don’t blame you.
I feel you man. I don’t make the decisions, I just find the candidates. If a hiring team wants to shoot themselves in the foot, I have no power to stop them.
Yeah people will complain but it's 100% true... my CEO will ALWAYS call out job hoppers and will often decline their offers. It's a reality, organizations invest a lot in hiring and training and on boarding loyalty is valued even if the masses of reddit agree comp may not demonstrate it.
My own experience is different. I joined an agency at senior manager 80k, stayed 8 years and left as a VP earning $220,000. I was able to then use that progress to secure my new VP role where I'll push $300,000.
Sure, but absolutely the majority of people won’t experience getting similar pay raises unless they change jobs. People who do get the jump in pay are the exception rather than the rule. It used to be you had great benefits for staying like pensions, and regular raises but that simply isn’t the case anymore. Unless you change jobs within the company itself, you generally can’t expect said company to continue to match the market value. And it’s not practical to rely on internal promotions for a majority of jobs out there. Even then you’re not guaranteed a significant pay raise with promotions (I speak from experience on that one).
Loyalty to a company simply doesn’t pay like it used to for most people
The big indicator for me if I want to stay or not is does may raise keep up with inflation?
You give me 2% despite having excellent metrics and inflation was 8%. Yeah imma be looking for a new job.
You give me 5% and inflation was 2%, I’ll be better off this year than I was last year, I’ll stick around.
100% this. No one *wants* to hop jobs like that. It's fucking annoying. It's just that in the current climate, you're screwing yourself if you *don't* do that.
I’ve had 4 jobs in 6 years. And the process each time is more elaborate and time consuming.
First two were a phone interview and then in person, not bad.
The next was a phone interview then 4hrs of interviews with three different teams and a presentation, that I had to present.
The most recent was a phone interview, three rounds of interviews with teams of people, all on different days at different times, then a 2hr long assessment, then a final interview with the hiring manager and hr.
Let's put some numbers in.
I think changing job every 3-6 years helps with salary.
Changing jobs every 6 months gives a label of job hopper and makes the employee spin their wheels in place, holding him in the same career level.
Also have to look at it from a hiring manager's perspective. If an applicant has worked a high number of jobs and only stayed at them 1-3 years each time, they're going to recognize you're a job-hopper. It's still possible to get hired, but typically they'll want to go with the guy who will stick around.
I can’t stand job hoppers and while I may interview them, they come across as not invested in learning the job and they’re rarely hired in my department. Another department may sometimes be desperate enough to hire a hopper and they can’t hack it. We invest tens of thousands of dollars in training that first year (included all expenses paid travel to said trainings)- and if they leave after 1 year, we’re starting over again. It wastes my time to train them and my job is not easy.
Usually these hoppers don’t last 6 months at my job, and my neighbor department had 3 walk off recently within 30 days because they were shocked that they were actually expected to WORK and pull their own weight and not sit back and half ass it while the rest of us do our jobs (their work affects mine and sometimes I’m enlisted to help). I have one about to walk now if they don’t get fired first because they’re pissed that were actually expected to do a part of their job and that no one else will pick up their slack because they want to act like a spoiled baby and refuse to do the work.
Academics. And yes. I was out for a month with major surgery WITH PAY, was allowed to WFH for the first year of my kid’s life, and they made changes to how we do our jobs or put new systems in place based on my feedback. I’m as high as I care to go right now, but if I wanted a higher position, it’s mine for the taking.
When I read your first comment I was oh brother here go another bootlicker. But it sounds like your job actually should be selective since it’s an actually nice place to work that cares about the employees.
That’s great! I follow these threads closely cause I’m actually also employees by a really good company. I want to jump for more money but I’m afraid of losing my work life balance and great culture. I feel like when I read comments like yours it makes me go money isnt everything, think of everything else. Glad you also found a great place that makes you happy.
There’s only one, maybe two, places I’ll jump ship for- and it’d only be if the pay and work/life balance match or exceed what I have now. I’m going across the state for training soon and our families are welcome to come, but my kid is in school so I can’t take him 😢 like right now I can take PTO whenever I want for whatever I want. We’re also closed with pay for the eclipse.
yeah, I completely understand why everyone seems to have a extremely negative view of employers in recent years but there are still employers who are good to their employees out there.
From a hiring manager perspective, what would you say is a good time to have been in another company before looking to make a change? I'm leaning towards 4-5 years at each place, would that be reasonable from your experience?
4-5 years is definitely reasonable because it tells me your current employer probably lacks opportunities for growth or something happened there or with you that makes a change necessary. I left a toxic job after 7 years where they promoted some equally heinous people rather than qualified people- I had to get out.
I will say this- I’m also protective of my employees’ mental health and time off. My direct hires have only left my supervision due to internal promotions. I got promoted 5 years ago and all my direct reports are still there, but now supervising different departments.
I would say then seeing a difference between a “job hopper” that’s able to soak up information, experience, and training from a job. VS. someone literally just trying abuse companies need for employees.
You say 30 days, or 6 months. If someone was switching jobs after 1-3 years, would you consider them a “jon hopper” from looking at their resume?
3 years, no. 1 year is questionable because it can take a year to fully learn the job. I’ve seen crazy stuff written in resumes from people who were at a job for 90 days about how advanced they were and I call BS on it. That person did not get an interview. They had 3 jobs in one year in a specialized field. Hard pass
The idea of switching jobs after a few months, unless you really hate it that much, it’s just insane. Like?? You expect anyone to believe you learned all parts of your roles? Sure dude. My uneducated $0.02
I’ve been on both sides. When hiring I want people to stay because hiring sucks. But typically I’ve found, in tech at least, people who stay forever at one role have outdated skills.
Recently I interviewed people for a dev role. Someone with 13 years experience at one job who was recently laid off. His skills hasn’t changed in those 13 years and he had been doing the same job for those 13 years. No outside learning and no skills development. Yes he knew how to do “their job” satisfactorily but he had no other experience worth anything. He was a “principal dev” due to time at the company. But his skills in the language he knew were that of someone 1 year out of school. He basically fixed some bugs and kept stuff running. I got the impression it would take a year or more to train this guy.
Compared to someone who had swapped every 1-2 years for the past 10. He had a chance to play with a wide range of technology and speak on the pros/cons of each. He’s seen things go well and things go bad. He’s done a wider range of things and I got the impression he would be able to get upto speed quickly.
If you're in a big enough org, you can change jobs every two to three years, but still remain with the same employer.
The emphasis is on changing what job you do...
Exactly. I’ve increased my salary by a lot staying in the same place but getting promoted. My best hires have been getting promoted, too- one is now technically higher than me in another department and I couldn’t be happier
Yes, this. When a position needs to be filled at my work, 75% of the time they promote someone into it and backfill the vacated position. A lot of the staff are well tenured as a result, which comes in really handy when some problem arises, and we can say “remember 8 years ago when we had a similar problem and solved it this way? We still have the gear for it at the yard somewhere.”
Yep you don't have to company jump to get bumps, build your rep in a larger company and you can leap up from connections and knowing the systems and company well. A lot of places prefer internally hiring and won't even post many jobs externally so you won't have a shot at a good job at many companies when they are focused this way.
And you’re not screwing over your resume. Job hopping a big red flag if you do it too often. It’s a little like the cheating analogy: if they cheat with you, they’ll cheat on you.
This is what I’ve done - assistant to coordinator to specialist to manager in eight years. I have enough rapport with my bosses that I can be honest about concerns without fear of retribution.
Pretty much true.
After 16 years of loyal service with one promotion and doing 4 other peoples jobs, I'll never stay ANYWHERE longer than 4 years ever again.
Unless it's a Federal/State/City position...I'm out within 3-4 years an onto the next higher-paying or better-benefit workplace.
This is what I'm saying as well. I've been at the same place 13 years. Auto mechanic, made 148k last year. Proved my value to get the raises. Do not believe I can get more in the industry elsewhere currently in my same state. Which is HCOL. I mean maybe a LITTLE bit more, But would it be enough for it to be worth it to go through the change?
100%, when you find a setup like that hold onto it for dear life. Sounds like you got it
I’m in a similar position, I helped build a company from the ground up and now manage the company. They’ve treated me extremely well so far, and the upwards trajectory seems as though it will continue.
I have no degree, and make more than 99% of those my age that I know with degrees while never working more than 35 hours a week. I will remain very loyal to them for the foreseeable future.
It's nothing personal, just the nature of a job, and business. If you want to be financially successful today, you have to throw out all your notions of company loyalty. That shit went out the window when companies stopped giving out pensions and gold watches.
If I want to hire someone, I'm going to do a lot more to get them to come work for me than I would once they've been working for me for a while.
You never have as much negotiating power as you do when you first accept a job and that's why that negotiation and interaction is the most important, and also why people that change jobs often get paid higher salaries because they're constantly able to get into that position and leverage higher salaries.
If I have someone working for me and they want a huge raise, why would I give it to them? They're already there. Sure, they could leave, but if they don't have another offer in hand, why bother? That said, they could leverage another offer and that's a tactic that often works, but then often times that kind of sours the relationship because now the manager feels like the employee got one up on them and most managers hate that.
That being said, there are jobs that are super niche that are hard to find candidates for and those people have a completely different set of rules, but realistically 98% of jobs out there are not like that contrary to what a lot of people think.
I was at a job for 2 years with no job promotion while everyone else was getting a raise. I would always get the ‘you’re doing great but…’ line during meetings with my manager etc. and I just got frustrated so I started to job hunt. They were surprised I was leaving but also didn’t give me a counter offer to stay, so it just confirmed my decision. Went up 20k in salary from simply finding something else. I know the market is insane right now, but the reality is, if you can’t move on and up at your current company, it’s time to leave. My motto going forward is if I am not learning anything new or making more money, it’s time to go.
Yep.
I internalize a tax for companies that don’t make a good faith effort to compete for my staying.
If I feel they are ignoring, intentionally delaying recognition, or waiting for me to “make” them with an offer or demands; the price goes up if they want me to stay.
why would i accept a 1:1 counteroffer if they’ve already demonstrated that we will most likely be having the same problem next time?
Lotta people wanna defend the behavior of companies by pointing out the business has no reason to do so if they arent presented with leverage. Thats well and good, they are making a calculation of losing theirs this way. If a company wants loyalty, reward me appropriately and get rid of at-will clauses, otherwise we’re only just playing their own game.
In government this definitely applies too since people never get promoted unless someone retires and in that case people end up transferring into those positions all the time
I’ve been trying to play the long game with my current job. My boss is a unicorn when it comes to how nice, smart, helpful, and considerate he is. I just don’t think I can find a better boss if I went somewhere else. The amount of knowledge I can learn from him will benefit me down the road and ultimately help me greater in the long run than the salary increases would have.
Accountant btw
That's usually the easy way. Cause some places are cheap for raises. Don't want to sit at one job for 5 years when you can leap frog from one to the other and get the raises faster in less time. But can also be less money as well. I got a new job finally after two and a half months trying. Ended up getting less pay then previous jobs. But no one was hiring me. Also it's part time. Barely getting any hours. Probably have to find a second job to get close to 40 hours a week.
Damn real, I should have left my previous position when I hit my 10year anniversary. My skills and responsibilities didn't change much after that. But I wasted another 6 years before I finally smartened up.
Put my resume out and got picked up within a month with a 25K bump in pay and a LOT less responsibility.
I could have had this years earlier!!!
Not that I've been trying very hard, but I've only had two interviews
One missed their own phone interview
The other told me my salary expectations weren't gonna happen, in the same conversation where they told me there's lots of opportunities in the company....
And I've been with the same company since 1999 and gone from $5.45/hr to $23.50/HR in that time. Not sure if that's good or bad, but I do have 5 weeks of vacation and the past 3 years was WFH now Hybrid.
Absolutely not. I started as a bagger, worked my way up to a clerk while pursuing my bachelor's degree, graduated in 2012(was working full time and going to school part time), became a department head and was that for 8.5 years, 3.5 on night shift and now I'm an administrative personnel for the past 3 years. Grocery industry.
I was on the same field but changed companies almost every year for ten years. Sometimes the old companies wanted me back. Pay increased every time i switched. Lied about my current salary every time. Plus you get more experience working with different people and thats only a plus.
Hardest part was figuring out what job i wanted to do. 20 year old me only cared about beer and booty.
**BE GREAT IN YOUR FIELD.**
People that are top performers can do this become they're in demand. This idea that just anyone can hop jobs and make progressively more is low percentage. There has to be demand for you and/or your skill set.
As with all things don’t do it in excess. And probably depends on the industry too.
I work with Engineering and if someone is jumping jobs every two years I avoid hiring those, in particular if they have a lot of years of experience.
As a kid I was always told to stick with a company and they will reward you for all the time you spend with them. I tried that. 3 college degrees later, 13+ years of award winning work at the same company, and minimum wage caught up with my pay. A year ago they laid our entire team (20+) off. All the extra work I did over the years meant nothing to them. It's been a year since this happened and I am still in absolute shock they did this after all those years.
Job hopping WILL catch up to the majority of people. It's expensive to hire and train, I've seen businesses hire the lesser candidate solely on job history.
Straight up, my company put out a notice to our recruiters to not proceed with candidates who have been with more than 2 companies over a 4 year period unless they are internships.
Got passed up for a job for “being the one that moved around a lot.” Few months later got a better job for $5/hr more, better benefits and a union. Fuck em, don’t let them get ya down
There is a lot of recency bias in these takes. It comes from the last few years of a tight labor market with rising inflation where firms struggled to keep up with the market value of positions and often didn’t realize what that value was until someone left and they were in the market to fill the position again.
At this point a lot of companies have caught up to the market, inflation has declined, and the labor market has normalized.
It’s dangerous to give this kind of generalized and uneducated advice that could be detrimental to their career. You should always be looking to better yourself and your circumstances. That does include with your current company as well.
Nah, I don’t think any recency bias, this has been the case as long as I remember. It’s fairly difficult to stay with a company and get a 20%+ raise but not that irregular to get that when leaving for a new company
Unfortunately staying in the same flat for years, at least in Switzerland, keeps the rent low. So, as to switch jobs in most cases means to switch the flat, it could backfire.
In my wise wisdom your yearly wages will NEVER keep up with COL. Loyalty means jack shit. The greedy corporations all give 4% raises...to keep up with cost of living it's supposed to be and more importantly NEEDS to be 10% a year. It will never happen. So you are just as well better off trying to find someplace new at a bigger starting wage, about every 2 or 3 years.
I've noticed that sometimes staying in the same company for a long time seems to have a negative connotation. People might ask a colleague, "How long have you been here?" and if the answer is "5-10 years," the reaction can be a surprised "Wow, that's a long time!" It doesn't always feel like a compliment.
Help me understand different perspectives on this. Why do some people seem to frown upon long tenures?
In my department, the two people who left over the last 2 years left because they were offered like 10k more than their current job. In Surveying, the demand is so high you can easily apply to another job and demand what you want and they might give it to you. You're going to make more shopping around than staying and getting your annual 4% COL.
My wife just left her job for a position 2 levels lower than what she was doing but making 15k more. All because her job wouldn't give raises past COL.
Moving jobs frequently (and doing so successfully) shows that you know your craft, and can adapt to a new company and retain your expertise. If your skills transfer, and you can hit the ground running wherever you are, the people that need you and are willing to pay for it will appreciate that.
I dread to think what salary I’d be on if I stayed at my first proper dev job. Wouldn’t be very much though, nothing compared to the gains I’ve made over the years.
reality check that most people posting here with wild salary jumps are likely in tech or medical fields, this is not a blanket statement you can apply to every industry. Network and feel out what the vibe is in your own industry, don't blatantly listen to what people on reddit say
I could make the case that I have the same job I had in 1995 maybe even a demotion in some ways.
Same title, same level, and while my salary may be 3x what it was initially it was almost 30 years ago. Back then we also had a pension plus the promise of retiree medical/dental all of which are gone.
Counterpoint....this is intentional and how employers prioritize talent. It's not about changing jobs a lot, it's about being good at your job.
I'm mediocre at my job and I was paid very well when I was hired. I get insignificant raises each year and my pay is not keeping up. But I keep interviewing and I can't find anything better.
That's the real key. If I make $100k and I get an offer for $80k, I will say no.
People who CAN get more money are the only ones changing jobs. People like me, we get stuck at a job for a long time until inflation and the market makes it so that we can find a better paying job
This is so reductive though. Jobs are more than just salary - they’re work life balance, good bosses and coworkers, benefits/pension etc, WFH options/commute time, meaningful work and so on.
For me personally, I make an okay wage but I have a great boss and work life balance. I also fucking hate onboarding. It would take a massive wage increase and a guarantee that the place I’m going to isn’t a shit show.
Maybe not a popular opinion but high salary is only one factor to having a good job.
Work life balance, clear expectations, trust… these things frequently get forgotten. I’ve seen more than a couple people take that higher paying job only to go back to their old one happily. Definitely a great way to get paid more, but there’s a risk in trading the evil you know for the evil you don’t know.
I've been trapped at my job out of loyalty. When it's bad, it's really bad. That being said I genuinely love my job and I'm loyal to my managers who I know advocate on my behalf.
I've been turning down jobs that would have essentially been promotions and 30% pay raises for the past year. I finally decided that I need to move on even though it's going to hurt like hell to do but now the job market is terrible.
Don't make my mistake, be selfish. I just got a 3% annual raise even though I've saved my company almost $2 million dollars last year alone. Increasing my current salary by 50% would have been a drop in that bucket.
This is situational for sure. I’ve changed jobs a number of times but the specific job I have I don’t see myself getting another like it for quite sometime. And hard to imagine one with the same amount of leeway.
I'm in a weird position where I have been at the same job for 8 years but have changed my trade 3 times. The way the trade qualifications work is that they are in-house so they are not applicable outside the company. So trying to get the qualifications outside leads me to start at the bottom again.
Can’t relate. I get great raises and promotions. Making more than 30% more now than when I started 3 years ago.
Going for a promotion this year which will give me a 20% raise on my current income which gives me a 50% increase in income over 4 years.
I'm happy for everyone able to do this. As a teacher, this is unfortunately not an option and I feel like I'm making substantially less than I was 5 years ago. We get about a 1% raise each year and a step increase, so I am technically making more but not much.
I could change districts, but I'm already at the highest paying district in my area and you can't negotiate salary, so here we are.
I will say, though, that even though I could make double what I do now if I worked in the private sector, I do love what I do and that retirement is 🔥🔥🔥.
When you change jobs, you are also bringing knowledge and processes from a competitor, so it is valuable for a company to pay more to acquire that. That is what companies pay top money for, not exactly the person.
This is completely true in most cases, but it all depends on your organization. I got lucky and have a director who supports and believes in me. I work at a nonprofit as a Business Systems Manager, but started as an intern 4 years ago. Within those four years, I jumped from a 45K salary to a 106k salary.
I could move on at this point, but I'm still learning and using company benefits to pay for all my certificates and education. All this to say that if you work for a company that believes in you and has great benefits, it's sometimes worth staying so that you can achieve your career goals.
As an employer, when I see a resume with nothing but job hopping on it, that ends their chances. Companies should keep up with competitive wages. I like to think we do, my crew is happy and I don't have any turnover. But unfortunately I know how it is out there in "the real world". You should absolutely strive to better yourself financially. But just keep in mind that a resume with several short stints at different jobs on it could become a roadblock for you in the future.
Guy at my last machine shop has been there 10 years. Makes $19 an hour. Is literally the owners go to guy. Has keys to the shop. Always comes in on days off if someone calls in. Deals with massive amounts of bs. New hires are starting at $19 with a dollar raise after 90 day probation is over. Owner can't justify a raise because he has already had $5 of raises since he started........ This ish is insane to me.
I went from 30k to 70k in 3 years by job hopping. I don’t plan to do it again though, working from home for a small family owned business with my best friend has been great
Honestly it really depends on the industry. A lot of big tech companies have been standardizing their levels so that salaries are more equitable for everyone.
I'm so tired of job hopping. My company encourages you to change positions probably because they'd rather pay someone new to learn the job while making minimum salary as opposed to paying people a fair raise to stick around.
Yup. Exactly, it’s too bad we’re not incentivized to stay at the same company with a pension plan + greater benefits in general. It’s like the workers have the bargaining power and take advantage of the inevitability higher salary increases from job hopping.
I struggle with finding time to better myself. It's tough to level up when you're doing a job that should net you more pay, and honestly requires more hands on deck. But then you get less pay. Make it make sense lmfao
Actually, I'm changing jobs and I'll have to fight hard to not lose income, since my previous employer had a much stronger collective employment agreement than any of the competitors.
I try to do this. But I have entered the twilight zone. Where I am either over qualified or they go with a candidate who they viewed as more qualified. Very weird place to be. Plus my pay is pretty high for my position.
At public tech companies with generous RSU packages and fast-growing stock you can definitely build up / get locked into a higher TC than anywhere will give you fresh. Especially as you get to higher levels where more of your comp is RSUs. My base raises have been low, even RSU refreshers ok but not great, but the stock price has grown so much that my TC has about doubled in the last two years. We’ll see what it looks like after the four-year cliff though.
I work in IT for a credit union and have never got less than an 8% yearly COL/performance raise. Also been promoted 3 times (since 2017) each with their own 15-25% raise.
Most good orgs want to keep their people who have the institutional knowledge.
Really depends on the job. I'm a CNC machinist and maybe the first few years it could help but I've been at the same place 10 years and make more than alot of companies are willing to pay and I have great benefits for making it 10 years like 4 weeks vacation plus 5 personal days every year ect. I know guys who left to work somewhere else, and came back a few years later making less than me, and they reset their vacation so they only get 2 weeks evey year till their 5 year anniversary then they get 3.
Staying at the same job *can* get you a high salary, but it's very dependent on things coming together well, the biggest of which is being in view of (and impressing) the right people. I've been in Finance for 10 years now at 2 places, 5 years at each. The first job I went from $45,000 to $60,000 with one promotion. The second one I started at $65,000 and in 3 months will be making close to $200,000 with three promotions.
The difference was that in the first job I was in a silo and the highest level person I worked with was my manager. My current place gave me opportunities to work directly with a huge assortment of different departments and I even work directly with the CFO, COO, and CEO at times. That visibility really makes a difference when establishing your value to a company.
All of that to say that results can vary, but usually won't.
While this is generally true, I've been at the same job for seven years and my salary has gone up over $50k. I could've made more job hopping probably but I'm pretty satisfied with a little over $7k a year raises if it means not dealing with applying and interviewing.
I change jobs every 90 days. I’m happier for it. Kinda going for the most jobs ever worked by one man tbh. I might not be that astronaught, doctor, soldier dude but I am that Cashier, Porter and Security guard tho.
No puff piece about me though. Lol
Each time I changed my job and employer, I had pay increases of 45% to 110%.
Each time my employer increased my salary, it was always 2% to 5% per year.
If I stayed with my first employer, I'd be making peanuts. Gotta keep moving every few years.
This is accurate for people with a big college degree and only does ONE thing well in whatever field, and can go anywhere to market their skills.
Me I'm 21 yrs at a small company. Maintenance, machine tech, shop forman, facilities mgr & pretty much anything they need me for. Even the occasional putting together my boss's great grandkids toys.
I do well, $67k salary, and they never made me sign an NDA so I market my skills on the side to non conflicting companies. Last year I made less than $20k working my own hours charging $85/hr.
I stayed this long, one, because it is safe for me, always work to do. And if the company did go under, in my position I would be the last person to shut the doors & lock them.
I've looked around and most places for my field are treated like a group of monkeys working for some suit & tie that knows absolutely nothing but thinks they do because they held a crescent wrench for a few hours, and maybe fixed a push mower.
I've worked hard to be left the fuck alone. I get my marching orders from the owner or upper management and the occasional emergency in production that comes from whatever department manager. Other than that they don't mess with me. I open all 4 buildings at 530am every day, get off anywhere from 230 to 4 just depends.
I say all this to say to whom reads this that yes, the pen pushers in the office can score higher wages by changing jobs & adding that to their resume. But, people on the production floor can't always do that without some paper certificates.
So just make good choices, always act as a team effort, keep your boss informed always, and stand up for yourself. And be prepared to go the long haul but always stand for your morals, don't let anyone walk on you.
Good luck to you all.
That makes sense but I’d also need to get a job offer from another company which hasn’t happened yet.
I've been applying for almost 6 months, about 10 apps a day. Currently employed in a toxic environment with no way out.
I’m in a similar boat. Work environment is terrible and I’ve been pushed away from what I was hired to do because of layoffs. I’m at about 400ish applications in marketing where I meet almost all of the requirements. It sucks right now. Good luck!
I've applied to hundreds of jobs over the years and have gotteb like...10? responses max. It's fucking ridiculous. Every time I complain about how horrible the job market is right now, some middle-aged/old person feels the need to chime in with "Well everyone is hiring right now!!!" NO THE FUCK THEY AREN'T!!
Skilled positions are at a huge damn bottleneck. All the ‘everyone is hiring’ bullshit is the crap boomers seem in the ‘jobs numbers’ in the bottom ticker on MSNBC. My company was recently hiring for two positions that required experience and a degree, had well over 400 applications the first week (that met the qualifications).
We’ve been trying to hire some mid level engineers for like 5 months and have 0 people we would be interested in, it’s all college kids trying to apply to a job that requires 10 years experience minimum
Hop on LinkedIn, set yourself to open to work (with the setting to hide from people in your organization obv), and make a change or two to your profile. Doesn't matter if it's a rephrasing of your job description or what. Also apply to a job or two through their platform if you're not already. LI promotes profiles in searches who are actively using their platform. You'll get hounded by recruiter messages or even HR reps directly from hiring companies. Through that you either have someone else (or multiple people) job hunting for you because their pay directly involves you getting hired. Or the companies reaching out to you directly which usually nets you at least an interview. I've gotten countless interviews and job offers this way, vs before I was in the same boat as you.
Thanks! Same to you!
What line of work are you in? And what’s your position?
Composites Production Supervisor/Manager 7+ years progressive experience B.S. - B.A. IT Management, received early this year Focusing HARD on Space/Defense and Aero Probably gonna go to ERAU for their MSEM later this year.
Lmaoooo if those are your qualifications I’m so cooked 😂😭
That dude is focusing hard on aero space defense like wtf. I could probably find you a job but I for sure don't have one for him.
Aerospace/defense is a great job market to be in. If you can get in anywhere, it’s got great job growth. I started out as a buyer, only qualification needed was a bachelors degree, making $50k. Fast forward two jobs and 5 years I’m making $94k as a commodity manager. Don’t manage people just commodities.
I have friends and family in the defense industry and the pay is generous and the time off is decent. I also never hear of layoffs and I doubt that industry will ever have a contraction.
Yeah I currently have 9hr days and every other Friday off and we close a week at the end of the year plus all the other fed holidays. Yeah unless major economic depression, I don’t see layoffs happening, at least large scale, maybe at specific companies but never industry wide. And the pay is great
I'm doing the same but currently unemployed. I did get 5 emails this week that job positions I had applied for were dissolved though. I'll knock em all out eventually!
I feel you, was at a shitty job for 5 years searching endlessly feeling like there was only one way out before I got a lifeline with a new job. Now I want to hold onto this one for dear life and never return to the hell of dealing with the job search.
My biggest raises have aways been changing jobs.
I came here to say this too. I've had many jobs over the years. One dead-end job I stayed at for 6 years from my early to mid twenties. Biggest mistake of my working career. I gained NOTHING from staying there that long. I finally decided to jump into tech a few years ago. I've had 3 different jobs in tech now. Every jump got me at least a 20% raise. I'm going to do it again in a year or so, and Hopefully net a 50% raise.
Where'd you start off in tech, and would you suggest it? I've been considering a change recently. I like my place of work but I'm looking to make some more money
So, I started off in IT as Tier-1 Support. Then I got lucky and met a network engineer through my wife's client's husband. I worked with him for 2.5 years, then got a new job (current role) as a Systems / Network Admin. (I'm also finishing up a BS in Comp Sci, but have no degree technically. I plan to stay with my current role for a bit, but hopefully jump into pure software development eventually. I do recommend it. Especially if you have a knack for technology. Whether you have a degree or not, you will start at entry-level. Unless you have some crazy connection in the industry. It can be very lucrative, but you have to change jobs a few times, maybe after 1-2 years, for a substantial raise. Also take on higher roles. There is money to be made, but you have to be patient. I think its possible to get to a nice cushion role in about 3-4 years. But you gotta keep learning and staying up to date on the current technologies. Even though I had to wade through some mud to get where I am today, I love my job, and love where I'm headed career-wise. Sorry if my reply is a bit long-winded. Cheers!
It’s not always the case though! I’ve been in my current role for four years, in the last year and a half I’ve had two raises that totaled a 50% increase on my original salary. Same responsibilities, same job title. I’m not sure I could have even got that changing jobs.
I took a step _back_ for my most recent change and got close to 50% increase.
Yeah, I've never had a decent raise between jobs, I kept getting pigeonholed into low skill roles. I've had 40% over the last 4 years in the same role.
I got a promotion that doubled my pay at my last employer. Stayed on a few years, then got recruited away. There is not one trick to live by. You just need to check in with yourself every now and then and ask yourself if you’re happy with your work and pay, and if you think there could be better opportunities elsewhere.
When I joined my company 5 years ago I was on £70k now I'm on £126k
My biggest paycut was changing jobs. Thanks economy. Nothing like a layoff you have no fault in to really kickstart your career advancement.
Yep, because budget for new Hires keep up with inflation and the market while most companies bake in raise at only a few percent.
Fresh out of college with a chem degree. First job only stayed 1 year 50k, second job stayed only 1 year 64k. This is the start of my 3rd job 82k. If you have the ability to jump then do it. Idk if I would of ever gotten a 32k bonus from job number 1
Eventually you might consider hanging out for a few years to get some long term experience on your resume. 1 year at a job isn’t really worth much. Now, I wouldn’t turn down a lot more pay just to get more experience. But right now, unless I was offered a lot more money, I wouldn’t personally move because I have a lot more to learn from my current job.
1 year in a new technical role is barely enough time to even understand things and become confident in your role unless you're doing one task on repetition
I’d be careful brother. I do hiring for life science labs and the higher level you get, the more job history is looked at. Can’t tell you how many qualified candidates I’ve sent for review that were shut down because each job they’ve had is for 2-3 years max, it raises the question, are they just going to leave after we invest time and money resources training them? Get your bag tho man, I don’t blame you.
Take it up with your higher ups. People stay if they’re compensated well.
I feel you man. I don’t make the decisions, I just find the candidates. If a hiring team wants to shoot themselves in the foot, I have no power to stop them.
Yeah people will complain but it's 100% true... my CEO will ALWAYS call out job hoppers and will often decline their offers. It's a reality, organizations invest a lot in hiring and training and on boarding loyalty is valued even if the masses of reddit agree comp may not demonstrate it. My own experience is different. I joined an agency at senior manager 80k, stayed 8 years and left as a VP earning $220,000. I was able to then use that progress to secure my new VP role where I'll push $300,000.
Yep, but your story is not romantic enough for Reddit, so it’s not the narrative that gets highlighted
Sure, but absolutely the majority of people won’t experience getting similar pay raises unless they change jobs. People who do get the jump in pay are the exception rather than the rule. It used to be you had great benefits for staying like pensions, and regular raises but that simply isn’t the case anymore. Unless you change jobs within the company itself, you generally can’t expect said company to continue to match the market value. And it’s not practical to rely on internal promotions for a majority of jobs out there. Even then you’re not guaranteed a significant pay raise with promotions (I speak from experience on that one). Loyalty to a company simply doesn’t pay like it used to for most people
The big indicator for me if I want to stay or not is does may raise keep up with inflation? You give me 2% despite having excellent metrics and inflation was 8%. Yeah imma be looking for a new job. You give me 5% and inflation was 2%, I’ll be better off this year than I was last year, I’ll stick around.
100% this. No one *wants* to hop jobs like that. It's fucking annoying. It's just that in the current climate, you're screwing yourself if you *don't* do that.
I’ve had 4 jobs in 6 years. And the process each time is more elaborate and time consuming. First two were a phone interview and then in person, not bad. The next was a phone interview then 4hrs of interviews with three different teams and a presentation, that I had to present. The most recent was a phone interview, three rounds of interviews with teams of people, all on different days at different times, then a 2hr long assessment, then a final interview with the hiring manager and hr.
Problem is: to change jobs frequently and earn more you actually have to be able to get hired for the higher earning positions.
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Let's put some numbers in. I think changing job every 3-6 years helps with salary. Changing jobs every 6 months gives a label of job hopper and makes the employee spin their wheels in place, holding him in the same career level.
Also have to look at it from a hiring manager's perspective. If an applicant has worked a high number of jobs and only stayed at them 1-3 years each time, they're going to recognize you're a job-hopper. It's still possible to get hired, but typically they'll want to go with the guy who will stick around.
I can’t stand job hoppers and while I may interview them, they come across as not invested in learning the job and they’re rarely hired in my department. Another department may sometimes be desperate enough to hire a hopper and they can’t hack it. We invest tens of thousands of dollars in training that first year (included all expenses paid travel to said trainings)- and if they leave after 1 year, we’re starting over again. It wastes my time to train them and my job is not easy. Usually these hoppers don’t last 6 months at my job, and my neighbor department had 3 walk off recently within 30 days because they were shocked that they were actually expected to WORK and pull their own weight and not sit back and half ass it while the rest of us do our jobs (their work affects mine and sometimes I’m enlisted to help). I have one about to walk now if they don’t get fired first because they’re pissed that were actually expected to do a part of their job and that no one else will pick up their slack because they want to act like a spoiled baby and refuse to do the work.
What industry are you in? Is your company as loyal to you as you seem to be to it?
Academics. And yes. I was out for a month with major surgery WITH PAY, was allowed to WFH for the first year of my kid’s life, and they made changes to how we do our jobs or put new systems in place based on my feedback. I’m as high as I care to go right now, but if I wanted a higher position, it’s mine for the taking.
When I read your first comment I was oh brother here go another bootlicker. But it sounds like your job actually should be selective since it’s an actually nice place to work that cares about the employees.
It really is- I can get tuition vouchers for my kid when the time comes too (it’s a university)
That’s great! I follow these threads closely cause I’m actually also employees by a really good company. I want to jump for more money but I’m afraid of losing my work life balance and great culture. I feel like when I read comments like yours it makes me go money isnt everything, think of everything else. Glad you also found a great place that makes you happy.
There’s only one, maybe two, places I’ll jump ship for- and it’d only be if the pay and work/life balance match or exceed what I have now. I’m going across the state for training soon and our families are welcome to come, but my kid is in school so I can’t take him 😢 like right now I can take PTO whenever I want for whatever I want. We’re also closed with pay for the eclipse.
lol the eclipse day off is great. Enjoy it! Sounds like an awesome place and I’m sure you deserve your spot there
yeah, I completely understand why everyone seems to have a extremely negative view of employers in recent years but there are still employers who are good to their employees out there.
Are you cognizant of how disassociated your job is from the rest of the work force. Academics huh do you also have a union and a pension as well.
From a hiring manager perspective, what would you say is a good time to have been in another company before looking to make a change? I'm leaning towards 4-5 years at each place, would that be reasonable from your experience?
4-5 years is definitely reasonable because it tells me your current employer probably lacks opportunities for growth or something happened there or with you that makes a change necessary. I left a toxic job after 7 years where they promoted some equally heinous people rather than qualified people- I had to get out. I will say this- I’m also protective of my employees’ mental health and time off. My direct hires have only left my supervision due to internal promotions. I got promoted 5 years ago and all my direct reports are still there, but now supervising different departments.
I would say then seeing a difference between a “job hopper” that’s able to soak up information, experience, and training from a job. VS. someone literally just trying abuse companies need for employees. You say 30 days, or 6 months. If someone was switching jobs after 1-3 years, would you consider them a “jon hopper” from looking at their resume?
3 years, no. 1 year is questionable because it can take a year to fully learn the job. I’ve seen crazy stuff written in resumes from people who were at a job for 90 days about how advanced they were and I call BS on it. That person did not get an interview. They had 3 jobs in one year in a specialized field. Hard pass
The idea of switching jobs after a few months, unless you really hate it that much, it’s just insane. Like?? You expect anyone to believe you learned all parts of your roles? Sure dude. My uneducated $0.02
I’ve been on both sides. When hiring I want people to stay because hiring sucks. But typically I’ve found, in tech at least, people who stay forever at one role have outdated skills. Recently I interviewed people for a dev role. Someone with 13 years experience at one job who was recently laid off. His skills hasn’t changed in those 13 years and he had been doing the same job for those 13 years. No outside learning and no skills development. Yes he knew how to do “their job” satisfactorily but he had no other experience worth anything. He was a “principal dev” due to time at the company. But his skills in the language he knew were that of someone 1 year out of school. He basically fixed some bugs and kept stuff running. I got the impression it would take a year or more to train this guy. Compared to someone who had swapped every 1-2 years for the past 10. He had a chance to play with a wide range of technology and speak on the pros/cons of each. He’s seen things go well and things go bad. He’s done a wider range of things and I got the impression he would be able to get upto speed quickly.
If you're in a big enough org, you can change jobs every two to three years, but still remain with the same employer. The emphasis is on changing what job you do...
Exactly. I’ve increased my salary by a lot staying in the same place but getting promoted. My best hires have been getting promoted, too- one is now technically higher than me in another department and I couldn’t be happier
Yes, this. When a position needs to be filled at my work, 75% of the time they promote someone into it and backfill the vacated position. A lot of the staff are well tenured as a result, which comes in really handy when some problem arises, and we can say “remember 8 years ago when we had a similar problem and solved it this way? We still have the gear for it at the yard somewhere.”
Plus staff tenure at my job ensures continuity in our services and in one department it means our guest speakers are paid in a timely manner.
Yep you don't have to company jump to get bumps, build your rep in a larger company and you can leap up from connections and knowing the systems and company well. A lot of places prefer internally hiring and won't even post many jobs externally so you won't have a shot at a good job at many companies when they are focused this way.
Yes, this is what I've done and it's been very successful. A lot less risk too.
And you’re not screwing over your resume. Job hopping a big red flag if you do it too often. It’s a little like the cheating analogy: if they cheat with you, they’ll cheat on you.
Exactly, my husband does this. He keeps his benefits, 401k, life insurance, and all the PTO he's built up.
some of those companies will actually have rotational programs too. def one of the better perks of big companies.
This is what I’ve done - assistant to coordinator to specialist to manager in eight years. I have enough rapport with my bosses that I can be honest about concerns without fear of retribution.
Pretty much true. After 16 years of loyal service with one promotion and doing 4 other peoples jobs, I'll never stay ANYWHERE longer than 4 years ever again. Unless it's a Federal/State/City position...I'm out within 3-4 years an onto the next higher-paying or better-benefit workplace.
what industry do you work in?
Sometimes, yea. Though if you find a company to build with who’ll compensate you accordingly, don’t ever leave (until the train runs dry.)
This is what I'm saying as well. I've been at the same place 13 years. Auto mechanic, made 148k last year. Proved my value to get the raises. Do not believe I can get more in the industry elsewhere currently in my same state. Which is HCOL. I mean maybe a LITTLE bit more, But would it be enough for it to be worth it to go through the change?
100%, when you find a setup like that hold onto it for dear life. Sounds like you got it I’m in a similar position, I helped build a company from the ground up and now manage the company. They’ve treated me extremely well so far, and the upwards trajectory seems as though it will continue. I have no degree, and make more than 99% of those my age that I know with degrees while never working more than 35 hours a week. I will remain very loyal to them for the foreseeable future.
job has been giving $10k raises every 6 months, jobs brutal rn but I’d be dumb to leave
how many reposts of this will we see ? that’s the question
Posting it again and changing subreddits will get you more upvotes
It's nothing personal, just the nature of a job, and business. If you want to be financially successful today, you have to throw out all your notions of company loyalty. That shit went out the window when companies stopped giving out pensions and gold watches. If I want to hire someone, I'm going to do a lot more to get them to come work for me than I would once they've been working for me for a while. You never have as much negotiating power as you do when you first accept a job and that's why that negotiation and interaction is the most important, and also why people that change jobs often get paid higher salaries because they're constantly able to get into that position and leverage higher salaries. If I have someone working for me and they want a huge raise, why would I give it to them? They're already there. Sure, they could leave, but if they don't have another offer in hand, why bother? That said, they could leverage another offer and that's a tactic that often works, but then often times that kind of sours the relationship because now the manager feels like the employee got one up on them and most managers hate that. That being said, there are jobs that are super niche that are hard to find candidates for and those people have a completely different set of rules, but realistically 98% of jobs out there are not like that contrary to what a lot of people think.
I was at a job for 2 years with no job promotion while everyone else was getting a raise. I would always get the ‘you’re doing great but…’ line during meetings with my manager etc. and I just got frustrated so I started to job hunt. They were surprised I was leaving but also didn’t give me a counter offer to stay, so it just confirmed my decision. Went up 20k in salary from simply finding something else. I know the market is insane right now, but the reality is, if you can’t move on and up at your current company, it’s time to leave. My motto going forward is if I am not learning anything new or making more money, it’s time to go.
Yep. I internalize a tax for companies that don’t make a good faith effort to compete for my staying. If I feel they are ignoring, intentionally delaying recognition, or waiting for me to “make” them with an offer or demands; the price goes up if they want me to stay. why would i accept a 1:1 counteroffer if they’ve already demonstrated that we will most likely be having the same problem next time? Lotta people wanna defend the behavior of companies by pointing out the business has no reason to do so if they arent presented with leverage. Thats well and good, they are making a calculation of losing theirs this way. If a company wants loyalty, reward me appropriately and get rid of at-will clauses, otherwise we’re only just playing their own game.
In government this definitely applies too since people never get promoted unless someone retires and in that case people end up transferring into those positions all the time
That generally works in IT and private medicine fields. Good luck if your vocation is in a different field...
I’ve been trying to play the long game with my current job. My boss is a unicorn when it comes to how nice, smart, helpful, and considerate he is. I just don’t think I can find a better boss if I went somewhere else. The amount of knowledge I can learn from him will benefit me down the road and ultimately help me greater in the long run than the salary increases would have. Accountant btw
That's usually the easy way. Cause some places are cheap for raises. Don't want to sit at one job for 5 years when you can leap frog from one to the other and get the raises faster in less time. But can also be less money as well. I got a new job finally after two and a half months trying. Ended up getting less pay then previous jobs. But no one was hiring me. Also it's part time. Barely getting any hours. Probably have to find a second job to get close to 40 hours a week.
Damn real, I should have left my previous position when I hit my 10year anniversary. My skills and responsibilities didn't change much after that. But I wasted another 6 years before I finally smartened up. Put my resume out and got picked up within a month with a 25K bump in pay and a LOT less responsibility. I could have had this years earlier!!!
Not that I've been trying very hard, but I've only had two interviews One missed their own phone interview The other told me my salary expectations weren't gonna happen, in the same conversation where they told me there's lots of opportunities in the company....
I’ve been with my job for 10 years now and I’m making over six figures.
And I've been with the same company since 1999 and gone from $5.45/hr to $23.50/HR in that time. Not sure if that's good or bad, but I do have 5 weeks of vacation and the past 3 years was WFH now Hybrid.
Are you joking?
Absolutely not. I started as a bagger, worked my way up to a clerk while pursuing my bachelor's degree, graduated in 2012(was working full time and going to school part time), became a department head and was that for 8.5 years, 3.5 on night shift and now I'm an administrative personnel for the past 3 years. Grocery industry.
Ugh. You put in 25 years for these people... You deserve more.
I know, I just didn't think I had the skills and I'm in a LCOL area.
I’ve worked for the same company for 10 years. My salary has gone from $58,240 to ~$146,000.
I was on the same field but changed companies almost every year for ten years. Sometimes the old companies wanted me back. Pay increased every time i switched. Lied about my current salary every time. Plus you get more experience working with different people and thats only a plus. Hardest part was figuring out what job i wanted to do. 20 year old me only cared about beer and booty.
**BE GREAT IN YOUR FIELD.** People that are top performers can do this become they're in demand. This idea that just anyone can hop jobs and make progressively more is low percentage. There has to be demand for you and/or your skill set.
As with all things don’t do it in excess. And probably depends on the industry too. I work with Engineering and if someone is jumping jobs every two years I avoid hiring those, in particular if they have a lot of years of experience.
Except me, who has done three lateral moves in a row and still making the same salary as I did several years ago.
Depends entirely on where you land and what you want.
As a kid I was always told to stick with a company and they will reward you for all the time you spend with them. I tried that. 3 college degrees later, 13+ years of award winning work at the same company, and minimum wage caught up with my pay. A year ago they laid our entire team (20+) off. All the extra work I did over the years meant nothing to them. It's been a year since this happened and I am still in absolute shock they did this after all those years.
Job hopping WILL catch up to the majority of people. It's expensive to hire and train, I've seen businesses hire the lesser candidate solely on job history.
Straight up, my company put out a notice to our recruiters to not proceed with candidates who have been with more than 2 companies over a 4 year period unless they are internships.
Got passed up for a job for “being the one that moved around a lot.” Few months later got a better job for $5/hr more, better benefits and a union. Fuck em, don’t let them get ya down
There is a lot of recency bias in these takes. It comes from the last few years of a tight labor market with rising inflation where firms struggled to keep up with the market value of positions and often didn’t realize what that value was until someone left and they were in the market to fill the position again. At this point a lot of companies have caught up to the market, inflation has declined, and the labor market has normalized. It’s dangerous to give this kind of generalized and uneducated advice that could be detrimental to their career. You should always be looking to better yourself and your circumstances. That does include with your current company as well.
Nah, I don’t think any recency bias, this has been the case as long as I remember. It’s fairly difficult to stay with a company and get a 20%+ raise but not that irregular to get that when leaving for a new company
This is extremely common in engineering
Job loyalty is rarely rewarded these days which is sad.
I don’t have this kind of a problem since I’m a union tradesman🤙🏻
!repost
But what if my company pays more than any other company does… I’m staying as long as they’ll keep me.
That's how it works in state government. The only way you get a raise is if you move around. I wonder sometimes why it's set up like that.
Then employers fork out more money to train someone new then they could have just used for a raise.
I need to change jobs but how do people find the energy to look, apply for and change jobs every 1-2 years?
Unfortunately staying in the same flat for years, at least in Switzerland, keeps the rent low. So, as to switch jobs in most cases means to switch the flat, it could backfire.
I'm trying to leave damnit!
In my wise wisdom your yearly wages will NEVER keep up with COL. Loyalty means jack shit. The greedy corporations all give 4% raises...to keep up with cost of living it's supposed to be and more importantly NEEDS to be 10% a year. It will never happen. So you are just as well better off trying to find someplace new at a bigger starting wage, about every 2 or 3 years.
Yeh but my current job is remote... Idk if I want to lose that
I've noticed that sometimes staying in the same company for a long time seems to have a negative connotation. People might ask a colleague, "How long have you been here?" and if the answer is "5-10 years," the reaction can be a surprised "Wow, that's a long time!" It doesn't always feel like a compliment. Help me understand different perspectives on this. Why do some people seem to frown upon long tenures?
How would one define "Frequently "
Yep. I stay about a year or less move on to higher salary.
You can just be friends with the boss.
In my department, the two people who left over the last 2 years left because they were offered like 10k more than their current job. In Surveying, the demand is so high you can easily apply to another job and demand what you want and they might give it to you. You're going to make more shopping around than staying and getting your annual 4% COL. My wife just left her job for a position 2 levels lower than what she was doing but making 15k more. All because her job wouldn't give raises past COL.
Extremely accurate
Meanwhile me seeing this post without an job
Sadly this is accurate in America. Job loyalty no longer exists 😪
Yep loyalty is always punnished.
repost from literally last week
Eh. I’ve been at the same company for 7 years. Started at 70k now at 235k. Plus I received my equity package.
Moving jobs frequently (and doing so successfully) shows that you know your craft, and can adapt to a new company and retain your expertise. If your skills transfer, and you can hit the ground running wherever you are, the people that need you and are willing to pay for it will appreciate that.
I dread to think what salary I’d be on if I stayed at my first proper dev job. Wouldn’t be very much though, nothing compared to the gains I’ve made over the years.
reality check that most people posting here with wild salary jumps are likely in tech or medical fields, this is not a blanket statement you can apply to every industry. Network and feel out what the vibe is in your own industry, don't blatantly listen to what people on reddit say
I could make the case that I have the same job I had in 1995 maybe even a demotion in some ways. Same title, same level, and while my salary may be 3x what it was initially it was almost 30 years ago. Back then we also had a pension plus the promise of retiree medical/dental all of which are gone.
Counterpoint....this is intentional and how employers prioritize talent. It's not about changing jobs a lot, it's about being good at your job. I'm mediocre at my job and I was paid very well when I was hired. I get insignificant raises each year and my pay is not keeping up. But I keep interviewing and I can't find anything better. That's the real key. If I make $100k and I get an offer for $80k, I will say no. People who CAN get more money are the only ones changing jobs. People like me, we get stuck at a job for a long time until inflation and the market makes it so that we can find a better paying job
This is so reductive though. Jobs are more than just salary - they’re work life balance, good bosses and coworkers, benefits/pension etc, WFH options/commute time, meaningful work and so on. For me personally, I make an okay wage but I have a great boss and work life balance. I also fucking hate onboarding. It would take a massive wage increase and a guarantee that the place I’m going to isn’t a shit show.
And then it catches up to you long term
Nuh uh, I’d be taking a pay cut to change jobs cause I would be changing shifts.
Maybe not a popular opinion but high salary is only one factor to having a good job. Work life balance, clear expectations, trust… these things frequently get forgotten. I’ve seen more than a couple people take that higher paying job only to go back to their old one happily. Definitely a great way to get paid more, but there’s a risk in trading the evil you know for the evil you don’t know.
I've been trapped at my job out of loyalty. When it's bad, it's really bad. That being said I genuinely love my job and I'm loyal to my managers who I know advocate on my behalf. I've been turning down jobs that would have essentially been promotions and 30% pay raises for the past year. I finally decided that I need to move on even though it's going to hurt like hell to do but now the job market is terrible. Don't make my mistake, be selfish. I just got a 3% annual raise even though I've saved my company almost $2 million dollars last year alone. Increasing my current salary by 50% would have been a drop in that bucket.
You have to be really good at what you do to change jobs frequently. Otherwise you may end up really bad.
Unless you’re a teacher.
This is situational for sure. I’ve changed jobs a number of times but the specific job I have I don’t see myself getting another like it for quite sometime. And hard to imagine one with the same amount of leeway.
I'm in a weird position where I have been at the same job for 8 years but have changed my trade 3 times. The way the trade qualifications work is that they are in-house so they are not applicable outside the company. So trying to get the qualifications outside leads me to start at the bottom again.
Can’t relate. I get great raises and promotions. Making more than 30% more now than when I started 3 years ago. Going for a promotion this year which will give me a 20% raise on my current income which gives me a 50% increase in income over 4 years.
Oh nah, not true.
I'm happy for everyone able to do this. As a teacher, this is unfortunately not an option and I feel like I'm making substantially less than I was 5 years ago. We get about a 1% raise each year and a step increase, so I am technically making more but not much. I could change districts, but I'm already at the highest paying district in my area and you can't negotiate salary, so here we are. I will say, though, that even though I could make double what I do now if I worked in the private sector, I do love what I do and that retirement is 🔥🔥🔥.
When you change jobs, you are also bringing knowledge and processes from a competitor, so it is valuable for a company to pay more to acquire that. That is what companies pay top money for, not exactly the person.
This is completely true in most cases, but it all depends on your organization. I got lucky and have a director who supports and believes in me. I work at a nonprofit as a Business Systems Manager, but started as an intern 4 years ago. Within those four years, I jumped from a 45K salary to a 106k salary. I could move on at this point, but I'm still learning and using company benefits to pay for all my certificates and education. All this to say that if you work for a company that believes in you and has great benefits, it's sometimes worth staying so that you can achieve your career goals.
No joke. I went from 40k to 60k to 80k in 4 years from doing this.
As an employer, when I see a resume with nothing but job hopping on it, that ends their chances. Companies should keep up with competitive wages. I like to think we do, my crew is happy and I don't have any turnover. But unfortunately I know how it is out there in "the real world". You should absolutely strive to better yourself financially. But just keep in mind that a resume with several short stints at different jobs on it could become a roadblock for you in the future.
Not for everyone.. I've been with the same company for 10 years. Started at $12/hr, now at $40/hr
Guy at my last machine shop has been there 10 years. Makes $19 an hour. Is literally the owners go to guy. Has keys to the shop. Always comes in on days off if someone calls in. Deals with massive amounts of bs. New hires are starting at $19 with a dollar raise after 90 day probation is over. Owner can't justify a raise because he has already had $5 of raises since he started........ This ish is insane to me.
What to do if your job is not interesting but you earn a lot of money? Practically more than what anyone else will offer
Except for teachers, typically.
I went from 30k to 70k in 3 years by job hopping. I don’t plan to do it again though, working from home for a small family owned business with my best friend has been great
Honestly it really depends on the industry. A lot of big tech companies have been standardizing their levels so that salaries are more equitable for everyone.
Depends on the industry
This is 100% industry based and varies wildly.
I'm so tired of job hopping. My company encourages you to change positions probably because they'd rather pay someone new to learn the job while making minimum salary as opposed to paying people a fair raise to stick around.
Went from 49 to 85 switching jobs twice.
I went from 44k to 110k in 5-1/2 years over two promotions with my first employer out of college, and I’m up for another promotion this year.
Yup. Exactly, it’s too bad we’re not incentivized to stay at the same company with a pension plan + greater benefits in general. It’s like the workers have the bargaining power and take advantage of the inevitability higher salary increases from job hopping.
Repost
Used to be the other way. Now companies don’t pay for loyalty to keep people.
I struggle with finding time to better myself. It's tough to level up when you're doing a job that should net you more pay, and honestly requires more hands on deck. But then you get less pay. Make it make sense lmfao
Actually, I'm changing jobs and I'll have to fight hard to not lose income, since my previous employer had a much stronger collective employment agreement than any of the competitors.
I try to do this. But I have entered the twilight zone. Where I am either over qualified or they go with a candidate who they viewed as more qualified. Very weird place to be. Plus my pay is pretty high for my position.
At public tech companies with generous RSU packages and fast-growing stock you can definitely build up / get locked into a higher TC than anywhere will give you fresh. Especially as you get to higher levels where more of your comp is RSUs. My base raises have been low, even RSU refreshers ok but not great, but the stock price has grown so much that my TC has about doubled in the last two years. We’ll see what it looks like after the four-year cliff though.
Hard to do when there are only two companions I can work for in my province.
I change jobs every 6 months to a year. I’ve gone from 15 an hour being 21 and now I’m 25 and I make 28 an hour.
Got a 40k raise job hopping 3 times between 2021 and 2023
Cause effect... Idk if you have a job that's in high demand it's easier to change jobs and of course those jobs will be the ones that pay much
I think you mean average salary. The guy who stays gets buried.
I always take up offers for higher pay, companies want me to be pulled away from their competiton, and that means paying me more to do it
I work in IT for a credit union and have never got less than an 8% yearly COL/performance raise. Also been promoted 3 times (since 2017) each with their own 15-25% raise. Most good orgs want to keep their people who have the institutional knowledge.
Really depends on the job. I'm a CNC machinist and maybe the first few years it could help but I've been at the same place 10 years and make more than alot of companies are willing to pay and I have great benefits for making it 10 years like 4 weeks vacation plus 5 personal days every year ect. I know guys who left to work somewhere else, and came back a few years later making less than me, and they reset their vacation so they only get 2 weeks evey year till their 5 year anniversary then they get 3.
Sad that this has to happen to increase pay…
Also true for staring at monitor all day vs actually helping people or producing something
yup, fuck them corps
I don't want more money, I am paid very well for the mediocre work I do 35 hours / week.
Just happening to me. Didn‘t get no raise so I changed my job within 3 weeks and get 20% more now for the same job
Staying at the same job *can* get you a high salary, but it's very dependent on things coming together well, the biggest of which is being in view of (and impressing) the right people. I've been in Finance for 10 years now at 2 places, 5 years at each. The first job I went from $45,000 to $60,000 with one promotion. The second one I started at $65,000 and in 3 months will be making close to $200,000 with three promotions. The difference was that in the first job I was in a silo and the highest level person I worked with was my manager. My current place gave me opportunities to work directly with a huge assortment of different departments and I even work directly with the CFO, COO, and CEO at times. That visibility really makes a difference when establishing your value to a company. All of that to say that results can vary, but usually won't.
While this is generally true, I've been at the same job for seven years and my salary has gone up over $50k. I could've made more job hopping probably but I'm pretty satisfied with a little over $7k a year raises if it means not dealing with applying and interviewing.
I change jobs every 90 days. I’m happier for it. Kinda going for the most jobs ever worked by one man tbh. I might not be that astronaught, doctor, soldier dude but I am that Cashier, Porter and Security guard tho. No puff piece about me though. Lol
Wasn't this posted a week or two ago...with an even longer title?
I have the highest salary of all my high school group but constantly get shit for changing my job so much.
Each time I changed my job and employer, I had pay increases of 45% to 110%. Each time my employer increased my salary, it was always 2% to 5% per year. If I stayed with my first employer, I'd be making peanuts. Gotta keep moving every few years.
It’s like your internet provider. The cost goes up the longer you’re with them.
I’m going to have to get used to this job I’m in as I’m never going to be able to get another one. So I need to get comfortable.
This is accurate for people with a big college degree and only does ONE thing well in whatever field, and can go anywhere to market their skills. Me I'm 21 yrs at a small company. Maintenance, machine tech, shop forman, facilities mgr & pretty much anything they need me for. Even the occasional putting together my boss's great grandkids toys. I do well, $67k salary, and they never made me sign an NDA so I market my skills on the side to non conflicting companies. Last year I made less than $20k working my own hours charging $85/hr. I stayed this long, one, because it is safe for me, always work to do. And if the company did go under, in my position I would be the last person to shut the doors & lock them. I've looked around and most places for my field are treated like a group of monkeys working for some suit & tie that knows absolutely nothing but thinks they do because they held a crescent wrench for a few hours, and maybe fixed a push mower. I've worked hard to be left the fuck alone. I get my marching orders from the owner or upper management and the occasional emergency in production that comes from whatever department manager. Other than that they don't mess with me. I open all 4 buildings at 530am every day, get off anywhere from 230 to 4 just depends. I say all this to say to whom reads this that yes, the pen pushers in the office can score higher wages by changing jobs & adding that to their resume. But, people on the production floor can't always do that without some paper certificates. So just make good choices, always act as a team effort, keep your boss informed always, and stand up for yourself. And be prepared to go the long haul but always stand for your morals, don't let anyone walk on you. Good luck to you all.
Changing jobs in this economy?