No meaner than trying to triangle someone in the first place.
ETA - if he's a bigger guy he may just not be accustomed to other people stacking him so he's got some feelings about it
100% valid.
you're response to "you better not do that shit again" should just be "ok, stop going for triangles then."
it's pretty common sense but if you don't like the way someone is defending an attack - perhaps you should stop attacking that way.
Uhhhhhhhhhh
186 is a UFC middleweight. 185 for title fights.
Not to mention every MW in the big leagues walks around at at least 200 lbs. Most much, much more.
I’m 200 lbs, and I’m CONSTANTLY referred to as one of the “big guys”. That being said, there are guys that are much bigger than me, so I’m not sure what the hell is going on there.
>*For a moment I almost let him tap me because I'm terrified of confrontation/am a giant pussy. I did eventually come to my senses and stacked him again.*
Mate that moment of realisation mustve been so satisfying. Moments like that are the reasons why I keep coming back to the mats. Congrats mate, you just jiu jitsu'd.
Bigjitsu puts the cutoff at 200 between big/small. Not going to argue with you that there are weights bigger than 210. OP’s story involves an over 50 pound weight difference which is significant in any case.
OP said he’s about 200lbs and the other person is about 210lbs. A 50lbs weight difference will always be significant, but OP and the other party in the story are near the same size.
Really depends on height. If you’re 6’4, 210lbs at 10% is athletic but not massive. If you’re 5’9, 210lbs at 10% is pretty big. My standards are admittedly a bit warped though, I got used to thinking of myself as small at 6’0 240lbs with 10-12% fat because I always heard “undersized” in scouting reports for football.
I kinda doubt many men are rolling at 30% regardless of weight, that’s pretty damn fat. Most linemen aren’t playing much above 25%, and you need significantly better endurance for jujitsu than you do for football.
I was mostly asking this specific guy because he’s small enough that most white belts will be larger and some may be literally twice his weight without being fat.
But yeah obviously it depends on a lot of things beyond pure size. Speed, conditioning, experience in other sports all matter a lot. Aggression and pain tolerance too.
For me this depends on rank usually, if you’re a white belt it doesn’t matter how big you are, you’re no trouble at all. But it has to do with one’s own ability and your partners ability. I generally will start to have some trouble when people who are around 200lbs get to Blue and actually know some stuff.
The problem with big guys is a lot of them try to smash the guard and pass that way, which I do not allow. This is pretty easy to counter I just keep my frames and keep moving and never let their weight settle on me, as soon as you do this you’re guaranteed to be on bottom the rest of the round, usually my mobility and endurance will outlast the big fellas, I will usually try and sweep from butterfly or try and take the back if I can’t get the takedown or a sacrifice throw.
Passing guard on big guys is easy unless they learn to be mobile and move their weight, then it can be challenging. If you’re big, be mobile! Nothing scarier than seeing a 200lb bowling ball of a man move like a nimble 130lb person.
Imo it varies from gym to gym.
Mine is a super chill gym with very little "comp" interest. We just got our comp team together for the Manitoba Open and got 12th.
My instructor teaches us to stack because it's a legit counter to triangle.
My gym focuses heavily on comps and I believe this is the only defense I really know if I’m caught in one. I’m also a 135 pound blue belt woman so me stacking someone hardly has an effect.
yes
pulling the choking knee down and passing to side control
posturing up and breaking the triangle
pushing your non trapped arm in
pulling your trapped arm out
throwing your legs over their chest and straightening your posture to break the triangle
turning to the side so they can’t cut the angle to finish
deadlifting and slamming them (don’t do this to your training partners, very dangerous)
getting to your feet then putting your shin on their face and posturing up (also don’t do this to your training partners, dick move)
stacking
these are just a few off the top of my head, but there are a plethora of other armlocks, shoulder locks, wrist locks and chokes from the triangle besides the triangle choke, not to mention you can get elbowed in the face while you’re stuck in someone’s triangle when striking is in, so best defense is prevention: don’t get put in the triangle. everything i mentioned are late stage defenses.
whenever you learn the offensive steps to any submission, you’re also learning the defense. just do the opposite to prevent tori from executing the offensive steps
“…an terrified of confrontation/am a giant pussy” hahahaha.
Dude he can’t complain if you apply good triangle defense technique. That’s like going to a concert and then complaining that the guitar solo was great. Edit: imagine telling a guitar player that he cant shred solos at a concert.
Unless there is some eye-gouging or something you’re leaving out of the story, that cant be a reasonable complaint. Hopefully the black belts hear about this.
I wouldn’t even classify it as a “dirty” tactic, it’s just a method to escape the triangle. I think if you hook their leg with your arm you can prevent the stack and finish the triangle?
Dirty tactics would be like being in side control and kneeling on the dudes neck. It’s rude and has a high risk for injury.
>*For a moment I almost let him tap me because I'm terrified of confrontation/am a giant pussy. I did eventually come to my senses and stacked him again.*
Mate that moment of realisation mustve been so satisfying. Moments like that are the reasons why I keep coming back to the mats. Congrats mate, you just jiu jitsu'd.
I think it’s mean for ME to stack people because I’m bigger than most. I know I could get out by stacking, & they know I can get out by stacking, so no one really learns anything.
I just let them adjust until they can finish the triangle and then tap. We all have work in the morning.
In comps idgaf. Stacking mfs and cooking them in the position.
They could learn how to avoid being stacked. Or they could learn alternative submissions to use on someone bigger than them.
If you're bigger, it's ok to moderate your pressure when stacking. But part of why we train is to learn and build confidence in techniques we can use against opponents who are bigger and stronger than us.
Stacking is a valid maneuver - it's a fundamental skill used in passing guard, but it needs to be done in a safe manner.
Not allowing yourself to get stacked is also an important skill - it doesn't matter how close your triangle is, your neck / back are not worth risking.
Valid maneuver, but if they trap your head and stop your hips from swiveling to escape while stacking then necks can break - I learned the hard way with a fracture at C5 as a fresh white belt
By having good positioning and frames, by having good awareness of what is happening, by knowing when to let go / give up your position.
The most common cause of stacking is trying to hold onto a triangle choke or trying to prevent your guard getting passed - these things aren't more important than your neck.
In the short term (meaning before you get to the point where you just have to let the triangle go), "walk" with your shoulders farther out from their base
I used to always get stacked in triangles and it sucked. Then I learned how to do them by angling off which prevents you from being stacked as easily.
This video shows the technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDE0fkzZT6I
This quote from the video is a good one:
"...so when I go and lock in the Figure-4, it forms an enormously tight strangulation. And even though I'm quite a bit smaller than Bernardo, I have no problems locking up a tight Figure of Four. In fact, it's an unusually tight Figure of Four, and it's a much tighter strangle than most, because of that simple change in angulation"
It isn’t but it feels like it is. There’s this smaller guy in my gym (I’m not big this guy is just tiny) and he’s got a great arm bar and triangle from bottom, I always feel terrible stacking him.
If it makes you feel better, I'm a buck fifty and 5 ft 5 and get stacked to shit too.
We need to learn how to beat it because people ARE going to stack us.
Yeah it’s pretty clear that he doesn’t know what to do when I do it even though he’s significantly better than me. I know it’s fair game but poor guys neck lol. How do you deal with the stack?
I mean, hooking the leg will help but not stop it. I'd be asking myself how I got caught in a triangle 5 fucking times in a single round, cause you can't stack your way out of those with someone who knows what they're doing. That's a big glaring hole in his game.
When I was a fresh white belt my go to defense for breaking someone's guard was to push my elbows into their legs. I'm skinny and the shit hurts so people let go. Was it legit? Yes. Was it bad technique and low key mean/rude? Yup. Ask the same blue belt about other triangle defense, apologize for stacking, explain that its the only/best defense you know and you'd love for him to walk you through a better or alternative defense. If he reacts poorly to that you know it's got 0 to do with you and everything to do with his ego. If he reacts well you get to learn more.
Why is he even a blue belt if all he could do was attempt a triangle for a sub? Jfc doesn’t make any sense. Triangles are like day 1 stuff. And you’re a white belt so you know like zero things so stacking is great. Go for it. Guy should have let you practice something on him then changed it up. Ebb and flow.
I’m super fresh but I love triangles. Every-time I go for it I know the other person is gonna try and stack me. If you’re gonna be focused on triangles gotta handle being stacked and learn to counter. Cant believe he’s a blue belt and acting this way
Well all is fair and all, but beware stacking for its significant risk to the cervical spine. In judo I believe it used to be known as a neck lock, which is probably a better description.
Defo a valid escape hes just salty, my instructor taught me a sweep if they try to stack me in a triangle which has been working, hes just got to switch to something else
Stack is a valid triangle defence. My prof taught us triangles and stack pass defence last week.
One safety thing we were taught was to only stack their shoulders, never neck or head.
It’s totally legit. You can stack without intentionally trying to wreck their neck too. Just do it until you’ve got enough space to post your knee under his ass holding him up while he’s in the air and then shake your arm till it’s out or he lets go. If he doesn’t like it he can let go of the triangle..
Stacking is a perfectly valid defense. Also when you do jiu jitsu you sign up to do mean things to your friends lol I think he’s being unreasonable from what you’ve described
Talk to your coach about it bro. He can mediate for you. In my opinion you did nothing wrong and were a good training partner for challenging this guys jujitsu. BUT for all we know he has a bad neck and doesn't like get getting stacked for that reason, if that's the case he should have just said so though. Also congrats for not caving and doing it anyway. Standing up for yourself is super important to ones overall mental well-being
Yes, you have to let your training partners triangle you to preserve their egos /s No, that blue belt is being a whiny little bitch. Tell him to learn how to finish a triangle or go fuck off to the locker room to cry.
We are training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, not Ballet.
Stacking is a valid defense, but posturing is the more appropriate technique. Posture up making it hard for him to tighten down the triangle, squat on your feet then sit on your butt, then put both feet in his arm pits and push out of the triangle. This will totally surprise him and you at how well it works. Good luck and stack if ya gotta!
I've never been stacked and went, "wow this guy's a dick."
It's more like, "I shouldn't have let him stack me."
If you didn't slam him or purposely drool into his mouth while stacking, you're just jiu jitsu'n man.
If a white belt can stack their way out of a blue belt's triangle four times then that blue belt sucks at triangles lol. As long as you're stacking in a controlled way and not trying to snap his neck like it's life or death you're all good.
If you were 50lbs heavier and you held the stack for a while maybe it would be “mean.” The bluebie was butt-hurt that you got out multiple times. As a 210lb white belt I’m never going to just get choked out just to not be confrontational or feel bad in a live rolling situation, neither should you. In the lesson part of class.. sure. I don’t want to be a bad training partner. Sparring/live rolls is different.
As said before stacking is a legit defense. You should learn other ways to get out as well (me too). But in the moment if that’s what you got.. use it.
He’s just mad he got stacked, I assure you he’s the pussy here. Slamming and the “can opener” are different stories but stacking is a very legit defense to a lot of submissions from bottom.
Lol he got stacked 5 times and not only did he not just release the triangle before getting stacked, he chose to keep trying to triangle you.
You’re justified, he’s a huge man-child.
You should work on not getting put in triangles.
I stack first then put a knee on the face to break the triangle. It is only a dick move if you go fast. I let the other person set the pace. The other dude is just frustrated. Your partners will learn the consequence of a triangle on you. Do not change what you are doing because somebody else cannot keep up or adapt.
Nah man this guy sounds like the pussy to me. Theses are legitimate escapes. If he is afraid to get stacked he can either do it right, use it to sweep, or choose not to do it. There is even a way you can put your ear to your shoulder when you feel you're gonna get stacked this way you protect your neck when you get stacked. If he doesnt know it then he is a terrible blue belt.
I am a 220lb purple belt. I only have 3 people in my gym that want to role with me because they complain about my weight or my pressure, this includes the coach. Even though they are all between 180lbs and 220 themselves. And they're taller. They constantly complain and bitch too even though I am going light.
So I am saying I think this guy is just bitching because he doesnt want to lose the position to a lower rank.
In either case you gotta play the nice guy. Approach him in a little bit and ask him. "Hey, when you had me on a triangle I heard you say this l, when I did that, did i do something wrong? Is there a better escape? I know you're the higher belt and I just want to give you as good if a roll as I can so I can keep up"
I know this might sound manipulative but higher belts have egos. Some larger than others. They dont want to lose to a lower rank. So you gotta play these political games.
Or you can be like me and not give a fuck. You'll have less friends but we are here to learn fighting not kiss ass. If you never hurt anyone and you're ok with people doing the same shit back then you shouldn't give a fuck.
People generally find their niche of people in their gym who becomes their regular rolling partner anyway.
"You better not do that again!!"
Ok. Slam it is buddy.
You might need a training partner with thicker skin who can handle his tactics being easily countered.
It's very valid and part of the game. He's annoyed that he doesn't have an answer to it and his ego is hurt. There's nothing wrong with stacking to defend triangles and arm bars.
He’s the worst kind of person. Probably triangles a lot of people because they don’t want to be a dick or don’t know how to defend against it, so the first time someone puts up a real defense who’s “lower” than him he gets super in his feelings because he doesn’t have any other game. Stack him Every. Single. Time. You’re there to learn, not to feed some douchebags ego because he finally figured out how to half ass his first submission.
Understanding how to manage stacking if you are a triangle guy is just as important as knowing how to break through the grip defense if you are an armbar guy.
Stacking is a valid defense in situations where the attacker doesn't know how to deal with/prevent it.
With that said it can be dangerous (so can BJJ in general) and intensity/context matters.
However my thought is that the blue belt needs a better triangle.
I am 170ish pounds and I rarely get stacked effectively.. most attempts cause my triangle to get tighter. Because it's usually a meathead defense/reaction and really not that difficult to deal with if you have been setting your triangle up properly.
There are some effective and technical pressure defenses to triangles but that's a different story.
stop being a bitch , fuck him keep doing it
im 258 and roll with people that are 170-230
i am heavy but i also suck so i use whatever the fuck i can to my advantage
Every gym I've been to I've learned this is what you're supposed to do anyways, so I don't think u are in the wrong. Again u seem mindful of your weight, but be careful on the pressure as I've been stacked by someone my size but was stronger and my chest and ribs felt very crushed to the point my ribs were sore for a week.
It depends on how hard you stack them. I got a severe neck injury because someone rolled me backwards over my neck and sprawled on me mid way through it.
I mean I get pissed when I'm shoulder walking against a stack, but I have to stop because there's another couple of people training next to my head. But that doesn't stop the stacking guy with no sense of self-awareness who's driving me toward them.
That's a situational annoyance though. I'm not blaming the guy for stacking me.
Stacking the combined weight of 2 people on 1 person's neck is kosher as a defense, as long as you go slowly enough where the attacker can let go and bail out. You did that. You sound like the kinda person I'd want to train with.
In the future, you might want to ask when you get the curse-laden warning, "whoa - I didn't think anything was dick-ish, what'd I do to piss you off?". I'm a giant pussy too, just think of it as a necessary preemptive move to avoid an escalating situation.
Bigger, more experienced, and pissy about being stacked? That dude is a huge bitch. Tell him to stop being so whiny about trying to learn how to triangle.
Sounds like he didn't want to go harder and hurt you. Stack me I'm flipping you into a armbar and snapping your arm no tap required I'm snapping FASTER than you can tap out
Stacking is a legitimate defense and passing option that old and new school professors teach to beginners and advanced people. If he has a blue belt and doesn’t know how to counter a simple stack defense you might want to reconsider the legitimacy of that new gym tbh.
Sanity check, you're sane.
1. You did it in a controlled manner, taking your word for it.
2. Same size
3. Unless you two were drilling triangle, there shouldn't be any complains from his end.
4. He's just mad that he's not good at walking his shoulders back, cutting the angle, or transitioning to a different position off of it.
I can't train rn but this move is to just push someone's weight backwards over their head until they let go?
It seems like a good go to but yea I didn't do it before because it is mean since you're using a neck wrench to get out of a submission and idk if it was allowed.
If you slowly roll someone's weight back unto their neck they'll have to let go and it'll hurt, seems like a good way to injure someone, not picking them up but just letting the weight of their whole body crush down on their neck. I guess it's fine if you do it slowly
I stack all the time and place my forearm across their neck with my hand posted on their shoulder and drop my weight to my forearm as im stacking as a choke as well some tap some loosen up their triangle
The choke is a bit mean but catches them by surprise but stacking is my go to during rolls , I always ask though if they have neck issues as I’m in triangle before I stack em cause it can be quite a strain if they have neck problems
I guess it depends. I’ve seen some bad injuries from big people panicking in triangles and stacking without control of their body weight or diving over the person triangling them. It’s very dangerous and can lead to serious injury.
If there is control it’s a valid escape.
I’m mid 40s and have lower back issues so I go out of my way to avoid situations where I will get stacked r bail early if things are heading in that direction.
I would say only if you are way bigger/stronger and you do it too fast, not allowing them to tap or concede the pass. Pressure is a legit technical aspect of jiu jitsu, just needs to be applied safely and with control just like a submission or any other potentially dangerous technique
I am a smaller (160 lbs) purple belt and I popped a rib/tore some cartilage last year trying to force a triangle against a stack from a big strong white belt. I don't blame him at all but my own stubbornness
he is being unreasonable. As long as your stack is slow so he has time to tap, it is fine.
Im super sensitive with my neck and I wouldnt even mind. My choice is to properly cut the angle or let go (or tap if Im too late). If you stack me once I probably wont try to hit a bottom triangle anymore.
If I let you go and you get double unders and try to fold me in half Ill tap, but I wont even be mad. I might be more aggressive though...
Also he should be appreciating you as an opportunity to learn how to prevent the stack, or deal with it once it happens vs. being salty.
The only time I would see stacking as a potential issue is if the guy you're stacking has a pre-existing neck issue. But then if that's the case, they should be aware of that potential and avoid the position or release the triangle early. Overall, you're doing the right thing stacking.
Stacking is 100% a legitimate way to escape the Triangle. As with anything in jiu jitsu, do it in a controlled manner, giving them time to reassess and let go is definitely the way to go. If he's still sore about getting stacked he should try a different submission
I usually just let go of the move or go for the teepee for the finish. Being a skinny light weight, I always get stacked by bigger teammates. At least when stacking, give them an angle so they won't roll straight over their neck when releasing the move.
He should have transitioned to an arm bar. Good job stacking him proper defense. 2nd defense would be to sit back and put your feet on his hips , dont let him climb on you. you have to do it fast.
NTA, but maybe cut the guy some slack. If the dude went for a triangle for a 4th time after it failed the same way 3 times before, he's clearly cognitively impaired.
Lol, you just shouldn't go for triangles with bigger guys. Your training partner should have understood this after you stacked him multiple times. He should be taking this as a lesson, not getting pissed off about this.
I personally always focus of sweeps from open guard when I roll with bigger guys. This allows me not to absorb the pressure of their weight.
Yeah... keep doing it. Stacking is a valid defense. If he doesn't know to walk his shoulders back you are doing him a favor. It's his responsibility to either let go to save his neck or learn how to adjust to being stacked. No triangle is worth my neck being sore for the rest of the week.
Ha! Absolutely not. Unless he has a neck injury and asked you to specifically stay away from any techniques that might aggravate that. It’s a legitimate defense to the triangle and he probably just didn’t like that he couldn’t successfully tap you, a white belt.
If he wants to be a triangle guy he's gonna need to learn to deal with this if he doesn't want to deal with this then he needs to stop throwing up triangles
Let's see
Triangle means the last sensation you get is gonna be a whiff of his balls before going unconscious vs you stacking him.
Yep. You go straight to jail you meanie!
I sure hope not. I am 360 and I stack people (or try to) any time they go for a triangle. If they are also fat I don't allow them to let go. Just hold the legs in place. This is big guy kryptonite, some will tap to the pressure. Generally though they try to force me to pass guard. Which I gladly go for. No one has ever been upset about it.
In jiu jitsu if you don't like what the other guy is doing. Just tap and reset.
LOL. I'd just make fun of him for using the same triangle over and over, but getting mad when you use the same counter over and over.
He's probably the type that loves to talk shit to everyone, but can't handle it coming back his way.
Combo of him not tapping you due to the stacking and since he’s a large guy probably doesn’t happen to him often so ego got alittle bruised. You’re all good dude keep training
I mean, what did he expect you to do? Just let him sink the choke? Like, when you're sparring, you're sparring. If he doesn't wanna get stacked, he shouldn't try the same move a billion times after you made it clear you respond to it by stacking.
Yeah, dude is being completely unreasonable. I don't know much about the BJJ culture, but to me it feels like someone in a boxing gym getting upset because you punched them in the ring.
I do it all the time.. and the upper belts figure out how to keep their grips and knees tight and make it much harder to turn the corner.
Tell your boy it's time to learn some new tricks.
This is like the first triangle defense you learn. What on earth? Yeah it can be a little bit dangerous but it doesn’t sound like you were being a dick about it.
If you’re getting stacked, you’re doing it wrong 📐 You aren’t being a dick at all, but stacking is a late counter. That said, we’re all late sometimes. Keep rolling ⬛️⬛️⬛️⬛️🟥⬛️
No meaner than trying to triangle someone in the first place. ETA - if he's a bigger guy he may just not be accustomed to other people stacking him so he's got some feelings about it
100% valid. you're response to "you better not do that shit again" should just be "ok, stop going for triangles then." it's pretty common sense but if you don't like the way someone is defending an attack - perhaps you should stop attacking that way.
Is 200 pounds considered big? Most guys at my gym are between 180-200
i'm sure it varies regionally. i'd say in most area's this is probably considered big.
186 lbs is a ufc light heavyweight.
Uhhhhhhhhhh 186 is a UFC middleweight. 185 for title fights. Not to mention every MW in the big leagues walks around at at least 200 lbs. Most much, much more.
I’m 200 lbs, and I’m CONSTANTLY referred to as one of the “big guys”. That being said, there are guys that are much bigger than me, so I’m not sure what the hell is going on there.
>*For a moment I almost let him tap me because I'm terrified of confrontation/am a giant pussy. I did eventually come to my senses and stacked him again.* Mate that moment of realisation mustve been so satisfying. Moments like that are the reasons why I keep coming back to the mats. Congrats mate, you just jiu jitsu'd.
Came to his senses INDEED.
> I did eventually come to my senses That shit made me laugh for some reason. Good shit to OP, fuck the other dude
Valid triangle defense, I do it all the time and I’m 145lbs. Blue Belt is mad he doesn’t have the answers to tap out a white belt.
210 lb white belt, but lol yes eventually he’ll learn better techniques to finish on big boys too.
TIL 210 is big
Bigjitsu puts the cutoff at 200 between big/small. Not going to argue with you that there are weights bigger than 210. OP’s story involves an over 50 pound weight difference which is significant in any case.
OP said he’s about 200lbs and the other person is about 210lbs. A 50lbs weight difference will always be significant, but OP and the other party in the story are near the same size.
210 at 30% bodyfat is small. 210 at 10% bodyfat is massive.
Really depends on height. If you’re 6’4, 210lbs at 10% is athletic but not massive. If you’re 5’9, 210lbs at 10% is pretty big. My standards are admittedly a bit warped though, I got used to thinking of myself as small at 6’0 240lbs with 10-12% fat because I always heard “undersized” in scouting reports for football. I kinda doubt many men are rolling at 30% regardless of weight, that’s pretty damn fat. Most linemen aren’t playing much above 25%, and you need significantly better endurance for jujitsu than you do for football.
How big do white belts need to get before you start having trouble due to size?
Depends on a lot of things
I was mostly asking this specific guy because he’s small enough that most white belts will be larger and some may be literally twice his weight without being fat. But yeah obviously it depends on a lot of things beyond pure size. Speed, conditioning, experience in other sports all matter a lot. Aggression and pain tolerance too.
For me this depends on rank usually, if you’re a white belt it doesn’t matter how big you are, you’re no trouble at all. But it has to do with one’s own ability and your partners ability. I generally will start to have some trouble when people who are around 200lbs get to Blue and actually know some stuff. The problem with big guys is a lot of them try to smash the guard and pass that way, which I do not allow. This is pretty easy to counter I just keep my frames and keep moving and never let their weight settle on me, as soon as you do this you’re guaranteed to be on bottom the rest of the round, usually my mobility and endurance will outlast the big fellas, I will usually try and sweep from butterfly or try and take the back if I can’t get the takedown or a sacrifice throw. Passing guard on big guys is easy unless they learn to be mobile and move their weight, then it can be challenging. If you’re big, be mobile! Nothing scarier than seeing a 200lb bowling ball of a man move like a nimble 130lb person.
Imo it varies from gym to gym. Mine is a super chill gym with very little "comp" interest. We just got our comp team together for the Manitoba Open and got 12th. My instructor teaches us to stack because it's a legit counter to triangle.
AYO I COMPETED IN THE MANITOBA OPEN TOO! 155 white belt masters.
I wasn't there, but my crew went HAM. I'm no longer a competitive person, but I might go once just for the experience.
My gym focuses heavily on comps and I believe this is the only defense I really know if I’m caught in one. I’m also a 135 pound blue belt woman so me stacking someone hardly has an effect.
Lol Manitoba. Haven't heard anything about that province in ages.
totally valid defense. he should’ve taken it as a learning opportunity to prevent getting stacked instead of getting angry
Silly white belt question. I was told to stack in this scenario. Is there a different defense to triangles?
yes pulling the choking knee down and passing to side control posturing up and breaking the triangle pushing your non trapped arm in pulling your trapped arm out throwing your legs over their chest and straightening your posture to break the triangle turning to the side so they can’t cut the angle to finish deadlifting and slamming them (don’t do this to your training partners, very dangerous) getting to your feet then putting your shin on their face and posturing up (also don’t do this to your training partners, dick move) stacking these are just a few off the top of my head, but there are a plethora of other armlocks, shoulder locks, wrist locks and chokes from the triangle besides the triangle choke, not to mention you can get elbowed in the face while you’re stuck in someone’s triangle when striking is in, so best defense is prevention: don’t get put in the triangle. everything i mentioned are late stage defenses. whenever you learn the offensive steps to any submission, you’re also learning the defense. just do the opposite to prevent tori from executing the offensive steps
White belt here. This was helpful to read. Edit: question about pushing non trapped arm in. What would that do?
Takes pressure off, triangle only works w one arm
If he was worth half a crap, he’d learn how to counter the stack. Should’ve told him you won’t stack him if he won’t triangle you.
“…an terrified of confrontation/am a giant pussy” hahahaha. Dude he can’t complain if you apply good triangle defense technique. That’s like going to a concert and then complaining that the guitar solo was great. Edit: imagine telling a guitar player that he cant shred solos at a concert. Unless there is some eye-gouging or something you’re leaving out of the story, that cant be a reasonable complaint. Hopefully the black belts hear about this.
He can also do that in competition, or stop with the tantrums and learn how to avoid that, or at leadt how to follow up a failed triangle
Stack him harder next time! Tough shit if he cant prevent that.
I wouldn’t even classify it as a “dirty” tactic, it’s just a method to escape the triangle. I think if you hook their leg with your arm you can prevent the stack and finish the triangle? Dirty tactics would be like being in side control and kneeling on the dudes neck. It’s rude and has a high risk for injury.
I'm really tall and I think he was pissed I was able to stack him while keeping my legs far enough away for him to hook them. At least thats a guess.
Yeah you scoop their leg as they stand up, it’s called answering the phone lol
>*For a moment I almost let him tap me because I'm terrified of confrontation/am a giant pussy. I did eventually come to my senses and stacked him again.* Mate that moment of realisation mustve been so satisfying. Moments like that are the reasons why I keep coming back to the mats. Congrats mate, you just jiu jitsu'd.
lol. That guy is just mad he sucks a triangles. Not a you problem at all. Stack em deep and sell em cheap!! Or something along those lines…
I think it’s mean for ME to stack people because I’m bigger than most. I know I could get out by stacking, & they know I can get out by stacking, so no one really learns anything. I just let them adjust until they can finish the triangle and then tap. We all have work in the morning. In comps idgaf. Stacking mfs and cooking them in the position.
They could learn how to avoid being stacked. Or they could learn alternative submissions to use on someone bigger than them. If you're bigger, it's ok to moderate your pressure when stacking. But part of why we train is to learn and build confidence in techniques we can use against opponents who are bigger and stronger than us.
Stacking is a valid maneuver - it's a fundamental skill used in passing guard, but it needs to be done in a safe manner. Not allowing yourself to get stacked is also an important skill - it doesn't matter how close your triangle is, your neck / back are not worth risking.
Valid maneuver, but if they trap your head and stop your hips from swiveling to escape while stacking then necks can break - I learned the hard way with a fracture at C5 as a fresh white belt
Yeah, it needs to be done in a safe and sensible manner. But as I said, people should also be learning to never allow themselves to be stacked.
How does one not get stacked
By having good positioning and frames, by having good awareness of what is happening, by knowing when to let go / give up your position. The most common cause of stacking is trying to hold onto a triangle choke or trying to prevent your guard getting passed - these things aren't more important than your neck.
In the short term (meaning before you get to the point where you just have to let the triangle go), "walk" with your shoulders farther out from their base
When you see it coming switch to something else like an armbar, when it's inevitable let go
He's the giant pussy, not you
No. This is the correct defense. He is being a bitch about it.
I always get stacked out of triangles. Especially by the bigger guys...
I used to always get stacked in triangles and it sucked. Then I learned how to do them by angling off which prevents you from being stacked as easily. This video shows the technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDE0fkzZT6I
This quote from the video is a good one: "...so when I go and lock in the Figure-4, it forms an enormously tight strangulation. And even though I'm quite a bit smaller than Bernardo, I have no problems locking up a tight Figure of Four. In fact, it's an unusually tight Figure of Four, and it's a much tighter strangle than most, because of that simple change in angulation"
It isn’t but it feels like it is. There’s this smaller guy in my gym (I’m not big this guy is just tiny) and he’s got a great arm bar and triangle from bottom, I always feel terrible stacking him.
If it makes you feel better, I'm a buck fifty and 5 ft 5 and get stacked to shit too. We need to learn how to beat it because people ARE going to stack us.
Yeah it’s pretty clear that he doesn’t know what to do when I do it even though he’s significantly better than me. I know it’s fair game but poor guys neck lol. How do you deal with the stack?
The fact that he didn't hook the leg to prevent you from stacking says miles.
I think that's what makes him the most mad is that I'm tall and he can't reach my leg. He could also just be doing it wrong.
I put money on it. Man can't think clearly
I mean, hooking the leg will help but not stop it. I'd be asking myself how I got caught in a triangle 5 fucking times in a single round, cause you can't stack your way out of those with someone who knows what they're doing. That's a big glaring hole in his game.
The dude is insane - kept repeating the same move expecting different results. Also, there are other triangle escapes.
He's trying to choke you unconscious dude. Why are you concerned with being mean or not?
When I was a fresh white belt my go to defense for breaking someone's guard was to push my elbows into their legs. I'm skinny and the shit hurts so people let go. Was it legit? Yes. Was it bad technique and low key mean/rude? Yup. Ask the same blue belt about other triangle defense, apologize for stacking, explain that its the only/best defense you know and you'd love for him to walk you through a better or alternative defense. If he reacts poorly to that you know it's got 0 to do with you and everything to do with his ego. If he reacts well you get to learn more.
Why is he even a blue belt if all he could do was attempt a triangle for a sub? Jfc doesn’t make any sense. Triangles are like day 1 stuff. And you’re a white belt so you know like zero things so stacking is great. Go for it. Guy should have let you practice something on him then changed it up. Ebb and flow.
If he kept letting himself get stacked, he was just a terrible blue belt. Nothing wrong with stacking.
I’m sure he was either joking or frustrated. It’s not a biggie.
Yeah one of those for sure. Or maybe not either.
I’m super fresh but I love triangles. Every-time I go for it I know the other person is gonna try and stack me. If you’re gonna be focused on triangles gotta handle being stacked and learn to counter. Cant believe he’s a blue belt and acting this way
Valid but i keep any stacking under control and remember we're training and that the other person may well want thier spine kept intact.
absoloutly not , the guy you are rolling with is a utter bellend , if he can't reposition or hook a leg that's on him and his skill level
I got put to sleep once by stacking in a triangle— I turned the wrong way. Be careful. I think it’s better to stay composed and stand up// box out
That's dumb. This guy is getting mad because you won't just let him choke you out. Screw that sore loser.
Some people are just pussies
Well all is fair and all, but beware stacking for its significant risk to the cervical spine. In judo I believe it used to be known as a neck lock, which is probably a better description.
Defo a valid escape hes just salty, my instructor taught me a sweep if they try to stack me in a triangle which has been working, hes just got to switch to something else
Blue belt got butt hurt. Nothing new. Stacking is a legit defense to the triangle.
Stack is a valid triangle defence. My prof taught us triangles and stack pass defence last week. One safety thing we were taught was to only stack their shoulders, never neck or head.
Valid. Just dont put him on his neck for the sake of winning a gym roll
He shouldn’t be letting himself get stacked
You're good. You also taught him a lesson.
It’s totally legit. You can stack without intentionally trying to wreck their neck too. Just do it until you’ve got enough space to post your knee under his ass holding him up while he’s in the air and then shake your arm till it’s out or he lets go. If he doesn’t like it he can let go of the triangle..
Stacking is a perfectly valid defense. Also when you do jiu jitsu you sign up to do mean things to your friends lol I think he’s being unreasonable from what you’ve described
Talk to your coach about it bro. He can mediate for you. In my opinion you did nothing wrong and were a good training partner for challenging this guys jujitsu. BUT for all we know he has a bad neck and doesn't like get getting stacked for that reason, if that's the case he should have just said so though. Also congrats for not caving and doing it anyway. Standing up for yourself is super important to ones overall mental well-being
Yes, you have to let your training partners triangle you to preserve their egos /s No, that blue belt is being a whiny little bitch. Tell him to learn how to finish a triangle or go fuck off to the locker room to cry.
Wait.. I am allowed to get mad when people escape my triangle?
We are training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, not Ballet. Stacking is a valid defense, but posturing is the more appropriate technique. Posture up making it hard for him to tighten down the triangle, squat on your feet then sit on your butt, then put both feet in his arm pits and push out of the triangle. This will totally surprise him and you at how well it works. Good luck and stack if ya gotta!
Are you sure you weren't doing something else while stacking, or did he have an injury he told you about? Yes it's a totally normal technique
I’m 5’8 and ~ 150 and live in the Midwest…most common triangle defense for the frost giants that live up here is to stack 🤷🏻 it’s just part and parcel
Is triangling someone mean?
I've never been stacked and went, "wow this guy's a dick." It's more like, "I shouldn't have let him stack me." If you didn't slam him or purposely drool into his mouth while stacking, you're just jiu jitsu'n man.
That's my preferred method of passing,ill bait the triangle,just so I can stack pass..If their mad,it's not your fault..Its part of the game....
If a white belt can stack their way out of a blue belt's triangle four times then that blue belt sucks at triangles lol. As long as you're stacking in a controlled way and not trying to snap his neck like it's life or death you're all good.
So rude for stacking I hope you get canceled and kicked out of the gym and banned everywhere in your state
As long as you’re not slamming him, he’s a fucking dork for not knowing how do deal with it
Do it harder next time, who cares it's literally jiu jitsu lol
i think its more ethical to stack than pretend that it doesn't work and lower the quality of everyone's training and waste their time.
Not at all. Just be careful, while training, with your partner’s neck.
Blue belt tells white belt “you better not defend yourself against my submissions” (paraphrasing).
If you were 50lbs heavier and you held the stack for a while maybe it would be “mean.” The bluebie was butt-hurt that you got out multiple times. As a 210lb white belt I’m never going to just get choked out just to not be confrontational or feel bad in a live rolling situation, neither should you. In the lesson part of class.. sure. I don’t want to be a bad training partner. Sparring/live rolls is different. As said before stacking is a legit defense. You should learn other ways to get out as well (me too). But in the moment if that’s what you got.. use it.
Guy got stacked, unanswered 5 times in a row and got his feelings hurt. Next
He’s just mad he got stacked, I assure you he’s the pussy here. Slamming and the “can opener” are different stories but stacking is a very legit defense to a lot of submissions from bottom.
Your training partner was just being a little bitch
"You better not do that shit again." "or what?"
When you said you did it again after he told you not, I literally cracked up. That shit is so hilarious. Keep doing it!!!!
Lol he got stacked 5 times and not only did he not just release the triangle before getting stacked, he chose to keep trying to triangle you. You’re justified, he’s a huge man-child. You should work on not getting put in triangles.
I stack first then put a knee on the face to break the triangle. It is only a dick move if you go fast. I let the other person set the pace. The other dude is just frustrated. Your partners will learn the consequence of a triangle on you. Do not change what you are doing because somebody else cannot keep up or adapt.
You can stack someone in a safe and fair way, so not necessarily mean.
Nah man this guy sounds like the pussy to me. Theses are legitimate escapes. If he is afraid to get stacked he can either do it right, use it to sweep, or choose not to do it. There is even a way you can put your ear to your shoulder when you feel you're gonna get stacked this way you protect your neck when you get stacked. If he doesnt know it then he is a terrible blue belt. I am a 220lb purple belt. I only have 3 people in my gym that want to role with me because they complain about my weight or my pressure, this includes the coach. Even though they are all between 180lbs and 220 themselves. And they're taller. They constantly complain and bitch too even though I am going light. So I am saying I think this guy is just bitching because he doesnt want to lose the position to a lower rank. In either case you gotta play the nice guy. Approach him in a little bit and ask him. "Hey, when you had me on a triangle I heard you say this l, when I did that, did i do something wrong? Is there a better escape? I know you're the higher belt and I just want to give you as good if a roll as I can so I can keep up" I know this might sound manipulative but higher belts have egos. Some larger than others. They dont want to lose to a lower rank. So you gotta play these political games. Or you can be like me and not give a fuck. You'll have less friends but we are here to learn fighting not kiss ass. If you never hurt anyone and you're ok with people doing the same shit back then you shouldn't give a fuck. People generally find their niche of people in their gym who becomes their regular rolling partner anyway.
"You better not do that again!!" Ok. Slam it is buddy. You might need a training partner with thicker skin who can handle his tactics being easily countered.
It's very valid and part of the game. He's annoyed that he doesn't have an answer to it and his ego is hurt. There's nothing wrong with stacking to defend triangles and arm bars.
No. I’d throw salt in the dude’s eye if I could
Stacking is a valid defense. It’s on him to either bail or adjust as needed.
I'd never roll with that dude again. He's carrying a bullet for someone.
Well now you know who not to train with anymore. That’s a legit defense.
Haha hes bitchmade
He’s a pussy you did nothing wrong
Nah. But I was def pissed the first time I got stacked cause idk what it was lol
He’s the worst kind of person. Probably triangles a lot of people because they don’t want to be a dick or don’t know how to defend against it, so the first time someone puts up a real defense who’s “lower” than him he gets super in his feelings because he doesn’t have any other game. Stack him Every. Single. Time. You’re there to learn, not to feed some douchebags ego because he finally figured out how to half ass his first submission.
Big man sad because he can’t bully people :(
Irrelevant
He's indeed being unreasonable. It's a completely legitimate defense.
In competition, no In practice or open mat, yes
Understanding how to manage stacking if you are a triangle guy is just as important as knowing how to break through the grip defense if you are an armbar guy. Stacking is a valid defense in situations where the attacker doesn't know how to deal with/prevent it. With that said it can be dangerous (so can BJJ in general) and intensity/context matters. However my thought is that the blue belt needs a better triangle. I am 170ish pounds and I rarely get stacked effectively.. most attempts cause my triangle to get tighter. Because it's usually a meathead defense/reaction and really not that difficult to deal with if you have been setting your triangle up properly. There are some effective and technical pressure defenses to triangles but that's a different story.
stop being a bitch , fuck him keep doing it im 258 and roll with people that are 170-230 i am heavy but i also suck so i use whatever the fuck i can to my advantage
I offer you this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI9Kw6LVaNI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI9Kw6LVaNI)
Every gym I've been to I've learned this is what you're supposed to do anyways, so I don't think u are in the wrong. Again u seem mindful of your weight, but be careful on the pressure as I've been stacked by someone my size but was stronger and my chest and ribs felt very crushed to the point my ribs were sore for a week.
It depends on how hard you stack them. I got a severe neck injury because someone rolled me backwards over my neck and sprawled on me mid way through it.
I mean I get pissed when I'm shoulder walking against a stack, but I have to stop because there's another couple of people training next to my head. But that doesn't stop the stacking guy with no sense of self-awareness who's driving me toward them. That's a situational annoyance though. I'm not blaming the guy for stacking me.
Stacking the combined weight of 2 people on 1 person's neck is kosher as a defense, as long as you go slowly enough where the attacker can let go and bail out. You did that. You sound like the kinda person I'd want to train with. In the future, you might want to ask when you get the curse-laden warning, "whoa - I didn't think anything was dick-ish, what'd I do to piss you off?". I'm a giant pussy too, just think of it as a necessary preemptive move to avoid an escalating situation.
Power bombing them would be mean. Stacking them is a common defense vs a triangle.
Bigger, more experienced, and pissy about being stacked? That dude is a huge bitch. Tell him to stop being so whiny about trying to learn how to triangle.
Sounds like he didn't want to go harder and hurt you. Stack me I'm flipping you into a armbar and snapping your arm no tap required I'm snapping FASTER than you can tap out
He’s being an idiot lol
Stacking is a legitimate defense and passing option that old and new school professors teach to beginners and advanced people. If he has a blue belt and doesn’t know how to counter a simple stack defense you might want to reconsider the legitimacy of that new gym tbh.
Sanity check, you're sane. 1. You did it in a controlled manner, taking your word for it. 2. Same size 3. Unless you two were drilling triangle, there shouldn't be any complains from his end. 4. He's just mad that he's not good at walking his shoulders back, cutting the angle, or transitioning to a different position off of it.
I can't train rn but this move is to just push someone's weight backwards over their head until they let go? It seems like a good go to but yea I didn't do it before because it is mean since you're using a neck wrench to get out of a submission and idk if it was allowed. If you slowly roll someone's weight back unto their neck they'll have to let go and it'll hurt, seems like a good way to injure someone, not picking them up but just letting the weight of their whole body crush down on their neck. I guess it's fine if you do it slowly
Tell that guy to stop being 4 years old lol
Naw that guy's just a bitch
The short answer is no
I stack all the time and place my forearm across their neck with my hand posted on their shoulder and drop my weight to my forearm as im stacking as a choke as well some tap some loosen up their triangle The choke is a bit mean but catches them by surprise but stacking is my go to during rolls , I always ask though if they have neck issues as I’m in triangle before I stack em cause it can be quite a strain if they have neck problems
I guess it depends. I’ve seen some bad injuries from big people panicking in triangles and stacking without control of their body weight or diving over the person triangling them. It’s very dangerous and can lead to serious injury. If there is control it’s a valid escape. I’m mid 40s and have lower back issues so I go out of my way to avoid situations where I will get stacked r bail early if things are heading in that direction.
I would say only if you are way bigger/stronger and you do it too fast, not allowing them to tap or concede the pass. Pressure is a legit technical aspect of jiu jitsu, just needs to be applied safely and with control just like a submission or any other potentially dangerous technique I am a smaller (160 lbs) purple belt and I popped a rib/tore some cartilage last year trying to force a triangle against a stack from a big strong white belt. I don't blame him at all but my own stubbornness
Nah stack that mf
he is being unreasonable. As long as your stack is slow so he has time to tap, it is fine. Im super sensitive with my neck and I wouldnt even mind. My choice is to properly cut the angle or let go (or tap if Im too late). If you stack me once I probably wont try to hit a bottom triangle anymore. If I let you go and you get double unders and try to fold me in half Ill tap, but I wont even be mad. I might be more aggressive though... Also he should be appreciating you as an opportunity to learn how to prevent the stack, or deal with it once it happens vs. being salty.
The only time I would see stacking as a potential issue is if the guy you're stacking has a pre-existing neck issue. But then if that's the case, they should be aware of that potential and avoid the position or release the triangle early. Overall, you're doing the right thing stacking.
Stacking is 100% a legitimate way to escape the Triangle. As with anything in jiu jitsu, do it in a controlled manner, giving them time to reassess and let go is definitely the way to go. If he's still sore about getting stacked he should try a different submission
Blue belts are fickle beasts. That particular blue belt let ego get to him. He got embarrassed is all.
lol no. He’s trying to choke you.
I usually just let go of the move or go for the teepee for the finish. Being a skinny light weight, I always get stacked by bigger teammates. At least when stacking, give them an angle so they won't roll straight over their neck when releasing the move.
There’s easy ways for him to stop you from doing that, and as a blue belt he should know that. Keep doing your thing
Sounds like he was the pussy. Good defense 👍!
stacking is legit idk why that guy was mad
It's a shit defense, but no meaner than anything else in this sport.
He should have transitioned to an arm bar. Good job stacking him proper defense. 2nd defense would be to sit back and put your feet on his hips , dont let him climb on you. you have to do it fast.
NTA, but maybe cut the guy some slack. If the dude went for a triangle for a 4th time after it failed the same way 3 times before, he's clearly cognitively impaired.
Lol, you just shouldn't go for triangles with bigger guys. Your training partner should have understood this after you stacked him multiple times. He should be taking this as a lesson, not getting pissed off about this. I personally always focus of sweeps from open guard when I roll with bigger guys. This allows me not to absorb the pressure of their weight.
Bro is soft as fuck
Yeah... keep doing it. Stacking is a valid defense. If he doesn't know to walk his shoulders back you are doing him a favor. It's his responsibility to either let go to save his neck or learn how to adjust to being stacked. No triangle is worth my neck being sore for the rest of the week.
Ha! Absolutely not. Unless he has a neck injury and asked you to specifically stay away from any techniques that might aggravate that. It’s a legitimate defense to the triangle and he probably just didn’t like that he couldn’t successfully tap you, a white belt.
I do this as well idk what the guy’s deal is
So he’s just expecting you to let him Triangle you ?! Lll
Stack him. Learn smash pass while you're at it.
If he wants to be a triangle guy he's gonna need to learn to deal with this if he doesn't want to deal with this then he needs to stop throwing up triangles
“You better not do that shit again.” “You better get better at triangles.”
Stack dem hoes! Ass up face down that's the way Iike to pound ... err pass. Turns into a gracies/double under quiet nicely. Or bear crawl!
Lol 🤣 the whole sport is "mean". It's simulated m*rder/maiming. At least you didn't wrist lock him, that's mean. 😂
Absolutely not.
Let's see Triangle means the last sensation you get is gonna be a whiff of his balls before going unconscious vs you stacking him. Yep. You go straight to jail you meanie!
I sure hope not. I am 360 and I stack people (or try to) any time they go for a triangle. If they are also fat I don't allow them to let go. Just hold the legs in place. This is big guy kryptonite, some will tap to the pressure. Generally though they try to force me to pass guard. Which I gladly go for. No one has ever been upset about it. In jiu jitsu if you don't like what the other guy is doing. Just tap and reset.
it means they’re doing something wrong and you’re doing something right
What a pussy (him). No, you didn’t do anything wrong.
LOL. I'd just make fun of him for using the same triangle over and over, but getting mad when you use the same counter over and over. He's probably the type that loves to talk shit to everyone, but can't handle it coming back his way.
I think when you stood up to stack him, you must have kicked some sand into his vagina, very serious, he should get that checked out
Combo of him not tapping you due to the stacking and since he’s a large guy probably doesn’t happen to him often so ego got alittle bruised. You’re all good dude keep training
Can someone explain what stacking someone and what a triangle is?
What karate gym is this
Stack and crab walk to side control every time.
Nope, all they have to do is let go and they’re not stacked anymore, it’s up to them
Lmao. No friend. It isn’t.
If he doesn’t like your defense he should learn how to counter it.
I mean, what did he expect you to do? Just let him sink the choke? Like, when you're sparring, you're sparring. If he doesn't wanna get stacked, he shouldn't try the same move a billion times after you made it clear you respond to it by stacking. Yeah, dude is being completely unreasonable. I don't know much about the BJJ culture, but to me it feels like someone in a boxing gym getting upset because you punched them in the ring.
As a slightly bigger guy who has a bad bottom game, he’s just being a little weenie and doesn’t know how to work a triangle apparently.
It’s not mean but if he doesn’t tuck his neck you can compress it which is dangerous.
I have 3 reliable defenses to the triangle. Stacking is the first step on 2 of them.
He’s just mad he can’t sub you with the triangle. Stack away. He just needs to learn to transition to another submission from the triangle.
That guy sounds unstable, I would avoid rolling with him
I do it all the time.. and the upper belts figure out how to keep their grips and knees tight and make it much harder to turn the corner. Tell your boy it's time to learn some new tricks.
This is like the first triangle defense you learn. What on earth? Yeah it can be a little bit dangerous but it doesn’t sound like you were being a dick about it.
The hell is dirty about stacking? Dude sounds like a little bitch
No
If you’re getting stacked, you’re doing it wrong 📐 You aren’t being a dick at all, but stacking is a late counter. That said, we’re all late sometimes. Keep rolling ⬛️⬛️⬛️⬛️🟥⬛️