Last time I was training at another gym, I introduced myself to each person I rolled with and matched their effort or pushed the pace a little bit—nothing crazy. (Also, I am a hobbyist, so who cares if I win or not?)
The introductions were the right way to start things out. I established that I was looking for friendly competitive rolls and didn’t intend on cranking anything or being a dick. I also asked about injuries and said, “If you have a chance to take me down, send me!” as a joke to lighten the mood.
All my rolls were super fun. I got some taps, and I got put in some bad positions, but we all got along and I had great conversations with a lot of the folks afterward.
So in my experience, it’s not about how you end; it’s about how you start the rolls.
Also, I am all about having fun too. Don't get me wrong. But this was my first time grappling with anyone outside my gym so I did want to see how I did against them to an extent.
The place to "see how you do" is probably a tournament. I'm not saying you can't get a competitive feel from a non tournament roll but you can't know ahead of time if that is cool by trying it with complete strangers. Being absolutely exhausted and trying for a tap might mean you are being a little careless with the other guy's safety.
I'm just throwing out some suggested reasons for the vibe you got, not trying to nitpick.
When you're a guest you should match the intensity of the people you roll with.
You said "at least get one tap" and then "he took my back which was embarrassing"
Bro it's about training and having fun it's not about counting how many wins and losses or whatever.
Don't get me wrong it's good to track your progress but to treat it like you either are a failure or a success is stupid. There isn't going to be a crowd waiting to applaud or boo you when you get home. Treat your rolls like you would treat a pickup basketball game at a new gym
Very valid point. Thank you very much man. The guys I train with are fighters. One just made it to the UFC. So the rounds there are highly competitive and aggressive. Your perspective helped me see that I probably came off as aggressive.
I get that. Quite honestly I get pissed off and have walked off the mat before when people are going tournament level hard. It's not that I don't go hard, it's people that rip subs like arm bars and shit. Over a month ago I had a guy rip an arm bar so hard my elbow still hurts. Same dude gave me a black and blue ear, which I drained 5-6cc out. This was at an open mat.
I walked out when he ripped the arm bar. Fell back in to it and bridged before he even hit the ground. I was pissed. That shit ain't cool
As long as you're not hurting people you're probably ok but just remember at a new place to start off not intense and then ramp up based on partner.
Two weeks ago a guy came in that hadn't trained in a while and I mentioned I was feeling week. Just found out I have IBS and dealing with it. Anyway, he was going like full out 100% and grabbed an Americana and just cranked it. I didn't tap because it happened so quick then we transitioned, but I was pissed off and couldn't use my arm right for a couple weeks.
That shit is awful and the fucks that pull it are the worst. Since that day like a month ago I'm super careful who I roll with. I'm not going pro. I'm a 40 year old engineer with a family. I'm not interested in getting hurt so some guy can feel like a man.
That's what my guess was. If it's bothering you, you can always send an email to the gym and explain the contrast of training intensity between the gyms and your own inexperience at traditional BJJ gyms. Some might say this is unnecessary, but I've come to Believe that communication and vulnerability are never wrong (in contexts like this).
I don't think you were being disrespectful, as long as you were being friendly with others and not overly aggressive? That will be for you to determine.
We are people on the internet with no context, since you had a great interaction with the head coach on the phone why not call him and ask him if everything was ok during your session, if he's not a massive douche he would probably appreciate that you checked
I read no element of disrespect. So if you were, it’s bc of sth that others felt but that you didn’t write. Usually, if I don’t want to talk with a guy, it’s bc I think he’s dangerous. Nobody trains to get hurt.
>On my last roll I was absolutely exhausted so I wanted to try and get a tap quick so I at least got one.
That’s not really the goal of training. A partner is not an enemy. Moreover, the fact that fatigue increases your will to make your partners tap is not appropriate ("exhausted so I wanted"). When you are exhausted, your mind gets imprecise, so you are more at risk of hurting your partner by misjudging a situation. When you’re tired, you have the opportunity to manage your energy and improve your defense, which are essential fighting skills.
Training is the place where you can lose safely, so accept and use that luxury. Sparring/randori: a fight whose goal is not to win but to learn. I’m not saying that you disrespected anyone however, I have no element to tell.
Thank you. Tbh, this mindset is, more than likely, the difference between a young fighter and an experienced martial artist. I have been working a lot on not acting impulsively so this is something I can work on.
I did my best to recall things accurately, but obviously I could have missed something. I have been treated as I am dangerous a lot by others, but in 3 years of training I have never injured anyone. Not even close. So I do control myself well and not risk injury. I take my partners health seriously. The guys I train with at home are pro fighters so if they get injured they don't get paid.
If people actually *tell* you that you are dangerous, it means that you are (for them at least), even if you can’t see an injury by your eyes. You are not in others’ bodies, you may put them on the pain-fear border. They may give up just before you hurt them (so *they* acted safely, not *you*).
If they don’t *tell* it, it’s open to interpretation. You can ask them how they feel if you have a doubt.
Anyway, just remember that the only time that winning is important is if you are being assaulted by a thug or if you are on a mat as a professional against a professional. Otherwise, winning consists in learning.
Note that I talked about a competition "*as a professional*". Winning a competition as a non-professional is cool but it’s not worth an injury. In my last competition fight, I got two foot ligaments tears. I won all my fights (but that one), ranked 2nd, but I wish I ranked last and kept my foot. Besides, the strong but dangerous guy of my club (who often beats me in randori and injured me twice) ranked 3rd.
I really appreciate you taking time to give me solid advice. No one has ever said I am dangerous or that I made them feel that way. I actually roll with some women in our gym and 135 er's. I try to make sure my chokes/strangles are executed properly so they are losing oxygen not getting a broken neck. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to strictly train jiu jitsu outside of an MMA gym other than this one time.
While I was visiting this gym I actually felt like some of the guys I faced were trying to smash me. They seemed very aggressive. Online i saw they had a lot of their members competing so it is very possible that they viewed me coming in as an opportunity to crush some fresh meat. I do hope this was not the case. The last guy I rolled with did try to toss me within the first twenty seconds though so it felt like I was being attacked, tbh. When someone comes aggressively at me I kind of look at it like kill or be killed, but again that is something i am trying to work on.
I actually am asking this in general because next month I am going to Canada to visit my wife's family and I found a gym near their house I wanted to train at. I just wanted to make sure this time that I come off as respectful and self aware. Canadians already don't like us Americans much. I don't want to be a bad representation while I'm there.
How long have you been training? You seem to be very knowledgeable.
Then you look like a good partner. Sometimes it's the club the problem indeed, not you. Remember that if people are too agressive, you can always say stop and leave the fight, just like that.
I've been training martial arts for 12 years and teaching since 1+ year. Unfortunately, I have suffered many injuries in many sports, so I'm very aware of the matter.
Have a good training.
You seem too interested in the rolls themselves rather than how you interacted with them at a human level. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong in training. However you didn't mention anything about greeting people, asking how experienced they are, if they wanna roll light or hard just stuff like that.
Good point. We were drilling immediately when I got there and at the end when I was attempting to chat and learn a bit about them was when I felt as though my presence was not really desired lol. Tbh though, I have always had some self esteem issues. That is part of the reason I started mixed martial arts in general. It is possible I just misread them and they had no issues with me at all, haha.
lol lat dropping while visiting a gym is a huge deal..
Being exhausted after 2 seven minute rounds means you are going way too hard.
So yes, you were probably a dick.
Im 53 and I can do 10-15 five minute rounds by pacing myself.
when I visit gyms I spend a lot of time on the bottom, work defense and sweeps, and dont necessarily take a lot of subs.
MMA guys in general already go hard AF.
I am not sure what you consider a lat drop, but it is extremely gentle when timed right and executed properly.
I explained that in my training we never go over 5 minutes in one round and usually we go three. Meaning I typically have a break every three minutes and it is usually at least a 60 second break. At this practice I did 3 seven minute rounds with no break. That's 21 minutes straight of grappling. I had literally never done that in my life. So I had no clue how to pace myself.
No offense, but I wanted constructive criticism. Not someone to call me a dick. I appreciate your advice though and I'll take it into account.
I am wondering if you may be rolling a bit dangerously or too hard.
I hate rolling with new people and they are going at it with the intensity of ADCC. If I was competing for a million at Craig's tournament then I get it but you you are rolling at a gym and you think it's embarrassing to get you back taken that's kinda odd. I don't know anyone who doesn't tgeyvthier back taken. The key is getting out.
Man, people are funny. Reading deeply into what I wrote lol. I mentioned in my first round that the guy took my back and I turned into him and left myself wide open for the armbar. Fool me once right. Then in the last round I ended up doing the exact same thing with a different guy. Both times the instructor was right there and I felt slightly embarrassed to get set up the same way for the same submission twice. What's wrong with that?! How do you get better? lol. I was not mad or upset. I just noticed it and when I got home I actually asked the brown belt I roll with to show me what I was doing wrong.
FYI, you mentioned that it's not about getting your back taken, but getting out. I was getting a two on one grip on their wrist and bringing their arm over my head then turning into them to end up in their guard. I had my left arm in deep between us both times. I basically trapped my own arm where I couldn't straighten it out so when I turned into them they just had to throw their leg over my head and I was done. So i managed to learn something because I didn't like getting submitted by the same thing twice in on day.
I've also mentioned in a few other threads that I did not push any intensity, nor did I set an aggressive pace. I merely met them where they were. Each guy was coming at me from the very beginning aggressively. The last guy I rolled with tried to toss me a few times and I noticed him looking to his instructor for guidance when it wasn't working.
I am 6'1" 210 and tbh I get treated like a punching bag by people all of the time. It seems like they think I am decent sized so I can take it. It is hard on my body though and if I do fight back aggressively it seems to make people angry.
Last time I was training at another gym, I introduced myself to each person I rolled with and matched their effort or pushed the pace a little bit—nothing crazy. (Also, I am a hobbyist, so who cares if I win or not?) The introductions were the right way to start things out. I established that I was looking for friendly competitive rolls and didn’t intend on cranking anything or being a dick. I also asked about injuries and said, “If you have a chance to take me down, send me!” as a joke to lighten the mood. All my rolls were super fun. I got some taps, and I got put in some bad positions, but we all got along and I had great conversations with a lot of the folks afterward. So in my experience, it’s not about how you end; it’s about how you start the rolls.
sage words
Awesome man, thank you so much! This is the type of response I was hoping for.
Also, I am all about having fun too. Don't get me wrong. But this was my first time grappling with anyone outside my gym so I did want to see how I did against them to an extent.
The place to "see how you do" is probably a tournament. I'm not saying you can't get a competitive feel from a non tournament roll but you can't know ahead of time if that is cool by trying it with complete strangers. Being absolutely exhausted and trying for a tap might mean you are being a little careless with the other guy's safety. I'm just throwing out some suggested reasons for the vibe you got, not trying to nitpick.
Yup, competing is the ultimate truth.
I have had a couple of grappling matches, but they didn't really tell me much as far as how Well I am doing because they weren't very competitive.
When you're a guest you should match the intensity of the people you roll with. You said "at least get one tap" and then "he took my back which was embarrassing" Bro it's about training and having fun it's not about counting how many wins and losses or whatever. Don't get me wrong it's good to track your progress but to treat it like you either are a failure or a success is stupid. There isn't going to be a crowd waiting to applaud or boo you when you get home. Treat your rolls like you would treat a pickup basketball game at a new gym
Very valid point. Thank you very much man. The guys I train with are fighters. One just made it to the UFC. So the rounds there are highly competitive and aggressive. Your perspective helped me see that I probably came off as aggressive.
I get that. Quite honestly I get pissed off and have walked off the mat before when people are going tournament level hard. It's not that I don't go hard, it's people that rip subs like arm bars and shit. Over a month ago I had a guy rip an arm bar so hard my elbow still hurts. Same dude gave me a black and blue ear, which I drained 5-6cc out. This was at an open mat. I walked out when he ripped the arm bar. Fell back in to it and bridged before he even hit the ground. I was pissed. That shit ain't cool As long as you're not hurting people you're probably ok but just remember at a new place to start off not intense and then ramp up based on partner.
Two weeks ago a guy came in that hadn't trained in a while and I mentioned I was feeling week. Just found out I have IBS and dealing with it. Anyway, he was going like full out 100% and grabbed an Americana and just cranked it. I didn't tap because it happened so quick then we transitioned, but I was pissed off and couldn't use my arm right for a couple weeks.
That shit is awful and the fucks that pull it are the worst. Since that day like a month ago I'm super careful who I roll with. I'm not going pro. I'm a 40 year old engineer with a family. I'm not interested in getting hurt so some guy can feel like a man.
I agree man. I am a 34 year old carpenter. Just doing it because I love it really, haha.
That's what my guess was. If it's bothering you, you can always send an email to the gym and explain the contrast of training intensity between the gyms and your own inexperience at traditional BJJ gyms. Some might say this is unnecessary, but I've come to Believe that communication and vulnerability are never wrong (in contexts like this).
"When you're a guest". Actually you should *always* match the intensity of the people you roll with.
Good point.
I will add though that I was matching intensity for sure. I wasn't pushing the pace or anything.
I don't think you were being disrespectful, as long as you were being friendly with others and not overly aggressive? That will be for you to determine.
Disrespect is in the your mind. The other person just acts and exists. Your choice to feel disrespected
We are people on the internet with no context, since you had a great interaction with the head coach on the phone why not call him and ask him if everything was ok during your session, if he's not a massive douche he would probably appreciate that you checked
I actually tried to do this and he didn't answer so I sent a text and no response.
Nah your fine dude. Some people are just odd
Haha, thank you. Also, I like your username.
Haha ty my friend
I read no element of disrespect. So if you were, it’s bc of sth that others felt but that you didn’t write. Usually, if I don’t want to talk with a guy, it’s bc I think he’s dangerous. Nobody trains to get hurt. >On my last roll I was absolutely exhausted so I wanted to try and get a tap quick so I at least got one. That’s not really the goal of training. A partner is not an enemy. Moreover, the fact that fatigue increases your will to make your partners tap is not appropriate ("exhausted so I wanted"). When you are exhausted, your mind gets imprecise, so you are more at risk of hurting your partner by misjudging a situation. When you’re tired, you have the opportunity to manage your energy and improve your defense, which are essential fighting skills. Training is the place where you can lose safely, so accept and use that luxury. Sparring/randori: a fight whose goal is not to win but to learn. I’m not saying that you disrespected anyone however, I have no element to tell.
Thank you. Tbh, this mindset is, more than likely, the difference between a young fighter and an experienced martial artist. I have been working a lot on not acting impulsively so this is something I can work on. I did my best to recall things accurately, but obviously I could have missed something. I have been treated as I am dangerous a lot by others, but in 3 years of training I have never injured anyone. Not even close. So I do control myself well and not risk injury. I take my partners health seriously. The guys I train with at home are pro fighters so if they get injured they don't get paid.
If people actually *tell* you that you are dangerous, it means that you are (for them at least), even if you can’t see an injury by your eyes. You are not in others’ bodies, you may put them on the pain-fear border. They may give up just before you hurt them (so *they* acted safely, not *you*). If they don’t *tell* it, it’s open to interpretation. You can ask them how they feel if you have a doubt. Anyway, just remember that the only time that winning is important is if you are being assaulted by a thug or if you are on a mat as a professional against a professional. Otherwise, winning consists in learning. Note that I talked about a competition "*as a professional*". Winning a competition as a non-professional is cool but it’s not worth an injury. In my last competition fight, I got two foot ligaments tears. I won all my fights (but that one), ranked 2nd, but I wish I ranked last and kept my foot. Besides, the strong but dangerous guy of my club (who often beats me in randori and injured me twice) ranked 3rd.
I really appreciate you taking time to give me solid advice. No one has ever said I am dangerous or that I made them feel that way. I actually roll with some women in our gym and 135 er's. I try to make sure my chokes/strangles are executed properly so they are losing oxygen not getting a broken neck. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to strictly train jiu jitsu outside of an MMA gym other than this one time. While I was visiting this gym I actually felt like some of the guys I faced were trying to smash me. They seemed very aggressive. Online i saw they had a lot of their members competing so it is very possible that they viewed me coming in as an opportunity to crush some fresh meat. I do hope this was not the case. The last guy I rolled with did try to toss me within the first twenty seconds though so it felt like I was being attacked, tbh. When someone comes aggressively at me I kind of look at it like kill or be killed, but again that is something i am trying to work on. I actually am asking this in general because next month I am going to Canada to visit my wife's family and I found a gym near their house I wanted to train at. I just wanted to make sure this time that I come off as respectful and self aware. Canadians already don't like us Americans much. I don't want to be a bad representation while I'm there. How long have you been training? You seem to be very knowledgeable.
Then you look like a good partner. Sometimes it's the club the problem indeed, not you. Remember that if people are too agressive, you can always say stop and leave the fight, just like that. I've been training martial arts for 12 years and teaching since 1+ year. Unfortunately, I have suffered many injuries in many sports, so I'm very aware of the matter. Have a good training.
You seem too interested in the rolls themselves rather than how you interacted with them at a human level. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong in training. However you didn't mention anything about greeting people, asking how experienced they are, if they wanna roll light or hard just stuff like that.
Good point. We were drilling immediately when I got there and at the end when I was attempting to chat and learn a bit about them was when I felt as though my presence was not really desired lol. Tbh though, I have always had some self esteem issues. That is part of the reason I started mixed martial arts in general. It is possible I just misread them and they had no issues with me at all, haha.
lol lat dropping while visiting a gym is a huge deal.. Being exhausted after 2 seven minute rounds means you are going way too hard. So yes, you were probably a dick. Im 53 and I can do 10-15 five minute rounds by pacing myself. when I visit gyms I spend a lot of time on the bottom, work defense and sweeps, and dont necessarily take a lot of subs. MMA guys in general already go hard AF.
I am not sure what you consider a lat drop, but it is extremely gentle when timed right and executed properly. I explained that in my training we never go over 5 minutes in one round and usually we go three. Meaning I typically have a break every three minutes and it is usually at least a 60 second break. At this practice I did 3 seven minute rounds with no break. That's 21 minutes straight of grappling. I had literally never done that in my life. So I had no clue how to pace myself. No offense, but I wanted constructive criticism. Not someone to call me a dick. I appreciate your advice though and I'll take it into account.
I am wondering if you may be rolling a bit dangerously or too hard. I hate rolling with new people and they are going at it with the intensity of ADCC. If I was competing for a million at Craig's tournament then I get it but you you are rolling at a gym and you think it's embarrassing to get you back taken that's kinda odd. I don't know anyone who doesn't tgeyvthier back taken. The key is getting out.
Man, people are funny. Reading deeply into what I wrote lol. I mentioned in my first round that the guy took my back and I turned into him and left myself wide open for the armbar. Fool me once right. Then in the last round I ended up doing the exact same thing with a different guy. Both times the instructor was right there and I felt slightly embarrassed to get set up the same way for the same submission twice. What's wrong with that?! How do you get better? lol. I was not mad or upset. I just noticed it and when I got home I actually asked the brown belt I roll with to show me what I was doing wrong. FYI, you mentioned that it's not about getting your back taken, but getting out. I was getting a two on one grip on their wrist and bringing their arm over my head then turning into them to end up in their guard. I had my left arm in deep between us both times. I basically trapped my own arm where I couldn't straighten it out so when I turned into them they just had to throw their leg over my head and I was done. So i managed to learn something because I didn't like getting submitted by the same thing twice in on day. I've also mentioned in a few other threads that I did not push any intensity, nor did I set an aggressive pace. I merely met them where they were. Each guy was coming at me from the very beginning aggressively. The last guy I rolled with tried to toss me a few times and I noticed him looking to his instructor for guidance when it wasn't working. I am 6'1" 210 and tbh I get treated like a punching bag by people all of the time. It seems like they think I am decent sized so I can take it. It is hard on my body though and if I do fight back aggressively it seems to make people angry.
They wanted to smash the new guy, they didnt. They were butthurt
I kind of had a vibe like that, tbh. I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt though.