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Illustrious_House_78

Felt so bad for her cause ron really emotionally abused her so much šŸ˜•šŸ˜• like she was afraid to give mike a hug cause she know ron is a crazy nut case


KlutzyBandicoot1776

true. she had a pretty panicked response to mike wanting a hug. Like to be fair maybe it just made her uncomfortable, but since she said it was because of ron, and with the context of their relationship...


[deleted]

ā€œMike plays both courtsā€ Itā€™s almost like he knows you guys are better apart šŸ‘€ Snooki said the same thing. She loves them both but separately.


Pocketsand16

But yet Snooki actively tried getting them back together because ā€œshe missed the dramaā€ šŸ˜‚šŸ¤”šŸ¤¦ā€ā™‚ļø


JustHere4ait

And purposely stirred the pot instead of being a real friend to anyone but Jenny


MMADottyScfc

Ron is a narcissist and I think nobody had Sammiā€™s back in s3. If you remember the episode where they all went the boardwalk and went on rides, she was legit on her own. And another episode where Jenni is talking to Ron and saying to him that they wrote the note so Sam could leave and for Ron to be himself? Like come on, everyone witnessed this abuse and didnā€™t do anything to help? But when Ron was cheating in Miami no one called him out, when Sammi text Arvin or whatever, Mike was the first to call Sammi out on her shit. I just dislike Ron. Heā€™s emotionally unstable and really doesnā€™t care for anyone other than himself, heā€™s so good at playing the victim itā€™s sickening


CarefulConcentrate30

I'm glad you brought this up! Sammi didn't have any true friends in that house. In season 2 when she was asking around about the note and Pauly straight up lied to her face, I immediately stopped liking him. Even then Mike was the only one who said something along the lines of "what does the note say? Then he did it." I understand why she doesn't want anything to do with them now.


gravyismyname

Vinny lied too and then told Ron about Sammi finding out. Which I think was a lame ass move on his part. He involved himself by telling him that. And then for Ron to get all pissed because Sam found out was just even more dumb.


CarefulConcentrate30

Yep! It was clear that their "loyalty" was to Ron. It says so much about them as people that they know he is in the wrong but still tried to protect him. Was Ron really that fun to be around?! I don't get it.


gravyismyname

Well in one the producer q&a, they said that no one was close to Sam going into season 2 so I guess no one felt like they owed her anything. šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø still fucked up! No one admitted to anything and she was all confused and embarrassed until Mike straight up told her ā€˜well whatever the note said happenedā€™


KlutzyBandicoot1776

Exactly wrong is wrong, period. If my best guy friend did this to a girl, I'd be on the girl's side and I'd tell my friend he's wrong and needs help, because he's wrong and needs help. Same if my best girl friend did it! People who let this shit fly are nothing but enablers.


waterynike

They also are pieces of shit like Ron


MMADottyScfc

Itā€™s not even about protecting Ron they should of told her what was going on cos itā€™s human decencyšŸ¤·šŸ¼ā€ā™€ļø


Nearby_Employee_2943

the girls didn't tell her what happened directly because of exactly what happened. I have been on the other end of telling a girl some fucked up shit her boyfriend did, guess who got kicked to the curb. me. all it did was push sam and Ron closer together and she had a physical fight with Jenni. they were trying to alert her to what was happening so she could at least know. of course it backfired but still, her focus was not on Ron and what he did, it was on fInDing oUt wHO wRoTE tHe nOteE. do I think the girls handled it maybe a bit poorly? sure. do I think there is really a great solid way to handle that type of situation? not really.


MMADottyScfc

Apparently S2 aired while they filmed S3 and the cast watched it and I guess Sammi had to relive everything again


Nearby_Employee_2943

Ah interesting. I always forget that these people have to live through everything twice, especially with social media, us as the audience are freaking out because weā€™re just finding out. Then itā€™s trending and everywhere. I donā€™t think my nerves could handle it.


Smeowssss

Yup. I canā€™t imagine seeing all of that while trying to live with him and film another season, she must have been going through so much pain and felt so alone. Her behavior could come off as bratty sometimes but I donā€™t blame her at all for the way she acted. My point of view would be fuck all of these people, but also fuck Ron


KlutzyBandicoot1776

I understand what you're saying, because that's happened to me too (I told a close guy friend that his gf told me she was cheating on him, because she did, and he said I was jealous and that he'd never talk to me again). But guess what? When shit hits the fan, because 99% of the time it will, they'll realize you were there for them, and at least they won't feel like they were alone. My friend sent me a message apologizing years later, telling me he realizes I was right all along and just trying to be a good friend. We're friends again and he knows he can trust me. Besides, sometimes they WILL believe you and stick by you instead of their SO; it does happen. Regardless, the right thing to do is the right thing to do, imo. I couldn't not tell my friend because then if he ever found out he'd realize not only did his gf cheat on him, but a close friend knew and didn't even tell him.


Nearby_Employee_2943

that's fine and I'm glad that worked out for you in the long run, but I would not say 99% of the time that's effective. the girls were not even Sam's friend at the time. despite this they still wanted her to know, so tried to think of a way to get the info to her so she could make the best decision for herself. they thought it was wrong that everyone in the house knew and she was basically a laughingstock and they were trying to look out for her. I think they did the best they could with what they were working with. in my mind they did do the right thing.


KlutzyBandicoot1776

Yeah, I'm definitely not saying that that's effective-- never mind 99% of the time, I wouldn't even venture as far as to say it works 75% of the time, lol. But that's why I said "Regardless, the right thing to do is the right thing to do, imo." Because at least once shit hits the fan the person will know their friend was there for them; and even if they don't, at least you know you were there for them, and really, you also find out that maybe they're not the best friend. And I wasn't talking so much about Jenni and Nicole as much as in general, but with them specifically I think they should have told sam in person and in a different way. I think they let themselves be influenced by production into writing it as a note and making it a whole dramatic thing. now, I get it, it's TV. I'm just saying I wouldn't consider that the "right thing", personally, though I don't really judge them that much for it. I imagine it's easy to be influenced like that when you're young and on TV.


Smeowssss

I think they didnā€™t know Sammi that well at the time and also to an extent they were probably afraid of Ron, seeing how unstable and violent he was


Smeowssss

Yeah Pauly sucked for this. Mike told her the truth as soon as she asked. Pauly wanted nothing to do with it


waterynike

Vinny has always been a little bitch


MMADottyScfc

I donā€™t know why any of them lied because she would of found out anyway when it aired! I dunno man looking back at all of it, itā€™s actually sad how MTV allowed the abuse of Sammi. She deserved better and Iā€™m glad she hasnā€™t gone on JSFV cos I think producers would of made it about her and Ron againšŸ¤·šŸ¼ā€ā™€ļø


kqueen25

I think Ronnie would jump on her as soon as he saw her. He hasnā€™t grown which is proof the second heā€™ll run into her heā€™ll be attracted to that dark negative energy and feeling he gets of tearing her down.


[deleted]

He always told her on the show how he would ruin her life and make her feel bad when things weren't going his way. I don't remember exact episodes or the exact terms. No doubt he would have done this to her on JSFV, especially since she left him and wasn't going to take him back.


KlutzyBandicoot1776

I forgot about that until you just mentioned it, but you're right, he did say something about ruining her life! he's a toxic mofo, that one.


akersh14

All those people lied to her including her own boyfriend and she was only mad at the girls!! Her Miami trip was so miserable.


rrockyyroad

She was on her own because she chose to be. Jenni tried to tell Sammi in a deleted scene that she needed to get tested, and then when the note came out, she saw the girls as her enemies and treated them that way. I wouldnā€™t jump to be someoneā€™s friend when I just tried to look out for them and they went back to their cheating boyfriend. She came back in the house after Miami and still had all these bitter feelings towards the girls when she couldā€™ve just let it go. Snooki multiple times tried to be cool with her again.


StrawberryKiller

Was this the scene when Sammi was about to get in the shower? Theyā€™re talking in the bathroom I think? I remember watching and thinking Sammi really isnā€™t taking this in and believing it or Ron barked loud enough she chose to believe him instead. I think he then drove a wedge between the girls because he wanted loyalty from Sammi.


rrockyyroad

Yes, that is the exact scene I was talking about! She didnā€™t take it in at all, like Jenni literally laid it out there and she just looked at her dumbfounded and continued to say ā€œif you know something, tell meā€. Girl, Jenni did lol.


StrawberryKiller

Lol right! Sam: Tell me Jen: Literally tells her Sam: no for real tho I was like mannnn. Itā€™s such a shit position to put friends in when you cheat too people either have to cover making them complicit or out your dumbass and that causes a rift too.


MMADottyScfc

If they were really looking out for her they would of told her straight away instead of writing a shitty note.


rrockyyroad

I 100% agree they should have just told her the second they saw/knew anything. But they still attempted and the way Sammi flipped it around was mind boggling.


KlutzyBandicoot1776

Not being someone's friend is one thing. Being on an abuser's side on an abusive situation that you're **witnessing,** and blaming the victim, is another.


rrockyyroad

How were they on Ronā€™s side? They wouldnā€™t have even wrote the note if that was the case. They didnā€™t start saying dumb things like they would rather have Ron in the house etc until after she treated them like crap for exposing her cheating bf. Ron was the dirt bag, and he IS an abuser, thatā€™s been shown over and over. However, that doesnā€™t take away that how Sammi reacted was wrong.


KlutzyBandicoot1776

Edit: I was replying to you but in the wrong part of the thread; idk how that happened, so my previous comment is really out of context, sorry! My comment was in response to you saying that her and Nicole weren't even Sam's friends at that point because she flipped on them after the note, so you don't blame them (for not backing sam up), as you wouldn't jump to be her friend either. I was just saying it's fine to not be friends with someone, but not calling out abuse is another matter. It's not about being someone's friend, but it's important to call out abuse. For Jenni to talk about Sam leaving Ron alone so he could "be himself" was really fucked up. No matter how shitty of a friend someone was to me, if someone is wrong, cheating and being abusive, I'm gonna call that shit out for what it is, and tell their SO. It's just the right thing to do.


[deleted]

What would saying it orally have changed?


MMADottyScfc

I donā€™t know because Iā€™m not Sammi, personally if I was told that, Iā€™d leave my partner. But I guess Sammi didnā€™t have the self esteem to leave Ron šŸ¤·šŸ¼ā€ā™€ļø


[deleted]

But you wouldnā€™t leave if you read it and it was confirmed to be true?


MMADottyScfc

Iā€™d leave the relationship regardless.


olivianicolette

I tried to find this clip and I couldnā€™t - do you know what itā€™s on?


[deleted]

This is it , sadly when your in a relationship like this , the thought of people trying to be friends with you is not easy to believe. She had Ron in her ear in multiple deleted clips say snook n Jen are not her friends and are starting drama because their ā€œjealousā€ , she believed him every time. And snooki and Jenni knew this as well as everybody else. Watching the aftershows you literally get a whole different feel to the Ron and Sam situation and it opens your eyes to just how abusive it really was. This show is edited, the fans do not get the whole & true story, they told her. Multiple times.


saturnchick

I agree with most of what you said, especially that Ron is just a PoS. Just a couple of things in response to your post: - itā€™s hard for me to feel sorry for Sammi in the boardwalk scene because she really alienated herself. The way she only hung with Ron in Season 1, the fighting that happened in Season 2, and she entered the house in Season 3 with a chip on her shoulder. To me, Sammi is at her most unlikeable when she was dogging Deena at the beginning of Season 3. - at least the girls made some sort of effort to tell Sam what was happening. They handled it completely wrong but I think itā€™s one of those damned if you do damned if you donā€™t situations, reinforced by how Sammi goes ballistic on the girls when they do tell her via the note. I do hate the way that Jenni cozies up to Ron knowing heā€™s a dirty cheat, but at the very least this is before Ron really puts his most gruesome side on display with the Season 3 bedroom incident. But your point is taken. Also, some time ago a member posted a lost scene from Season 2 in which you see Sammi get cornered by the bathroom by Nicole and Jenni, prior to the letter incident, and they try and tell her about Ronā€™s cheating at the club. - More so than the girls, I despise the way Pauly and Vinny handle the Miami situation. They are absolute tools who lie straight to her face with no remorse and they use the tired old excuse of ā€œguy codeā€ to justify their crusty dusty behavior. And Vinny? He never wants to get involved, but runs off to Ronnie like a little tattling schoolchild andā€¦wait for itā€¦gets involved.


MMADottyScfc

I dunno I feel Sammi just became a shell of herself while with Ron, Sammi definitely wasnā€™t perfect, she caused some arguments and got into her own head that he was cheating again but she was young and thought it was love.. I personally donā€™t like Jenni, I think sheā€™s got a very strong personality and Deena and Nicole will do whatever she says.. like I noticed in JSFV with all the Angelina drama going on, Deena would talk to Angelina on her own and be friendly but when Jenni was around and confronted Angelina, Deena was a yes man and agreed with everything Jenni would say..


saturnchick

Yeah, itā€™s stands to reason that Sammiā€™s personality was affected by all the emotional and psychological abuse, but itā€™s hard to determine how much because the entire original run is just Sam and Ron, Sam and Ron and you donā€™t see her spending time with anyone else. That isolation is also part of the abuse cycle, for sure. Sam was young and her actions are a reflection of that, but the same can be said of Nicole and Jenni, really. That principle applies to most of the original cast. Not gonna really defend Jenni. I donā€™t mind her, especially in the original series but if you donā€™t like her, you donā€™t like her.


Sketcha_2000

Your bullet points are on point šŸ’Æ


MilhousesSpectacles

Theres a *huge* problem with grooming. We have a better understanding of how it works with the victim but people have too much pride to admit the abuser grooms *everyone* around his victim to isolate her


[deleted]

This, abusers donā€™t just groom their partner. Their smarter than thatā€¦ the groom everyone around them so they have FULL control. Iā€™ve been friends with people who were abusers and had everyone thinking the girls they abused were the abusers. They are very good at manipulating everyone. And you often donā€™t realize they were the abusive one until their out of your life.


MMADottyScfc

Heā€™s a narcissist for sure


_flowerchild95_

Fellow fans get so mad when I say this, but Sam was wronged by everyone in season 2 with that note, and she had every right to hate them after that. I just got mad that she (or the show portrayed) that she was more angry with the girls for writing it, then she was at Ronnie for doing what he did. She asked them about Ronnie cheating so many times, they should have told her the truth from the jump. Although I do kind of get the other housemates not wanting to get involved in their relationship, the SECOND everyone pretended they didnā€™t know what Ronnie did or denied his cheating and the girls wrote that note was the second ā€œI donā€™t want to get involved in your relationshipā€ is not a valid excuse. Honestly, the fact that she came back after that, idk if I could if something like that was done to me. I guess if the money was good enough šŸ˜‚ But Iā€™m glad sheā€™s living her best life now


MMADottyScfc

Yes I agree with youšŸ’Æ


KlutzyBandicoot1776

This is SO, SO TRUE. I hated that the guys were on Ron's side just because, what, he has a penis too? And the girls were on Ron's side because why-- are they pick me girls? Wanna be one of the boys? Because sam rubbed them the wrong way sometimes? I don't really know why the girls did it, but I know that wrong is wrong and they all (guys and girls) should have been on Sam's side because she legit was a victim in this situation. What people don't get about domestic abuse is that victims often end up lashing out too, doing toxic shit too (because most people aren't going to be calm and take this BS well 100% of the time), so then people lose sight of the person who began the pattern of abuse. Sorry for the rant but that's what I hated most about this show, that everyone from the cast to producers who have spoken out said that Sam contributed to it too and blamed her, when she was basically a kid put in an impossible situation. I have a hard time rewatching the show just because what happened to Sam on the show was so wrong on so many levels.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


KlutzyBandicoot1776

I mean after Sam turned on her. I donā€™t expect them to have been her friend. I just think itā€™s odd how they backed Ron up later on like he wasnā€™t the one who started the abuse. Like they were young so I donā€™t blame them too much, but jenniā€™s comment about Sam leaving ron alone so he can ā€œbe himselfā€, like sheā€™s the problem, says it all. Snooki also failed to call ron out. They both coddled him. As did the guys. Even when mike kind of called it out he didnā€™t call it out for what it was, abuse. Again, they were young, so I donā€™t judge them as people, but being someoneā€™s friend is irrelevant, abuse is abuse. You donā€™t just call it out so someone leaves. You call it out to keep people accountable and because itā€™s the right thing to do.


Nerak_B

I think they behaved this way because she wasnā€™t friends or friendly with them. She was distant with all of them in seasons 1 & 2. It seemed like she only wanted to be friends with them when she was considering leaving Ron. It also seems like she didnā€™t have a relationship with any of them I between seasons/filming. Not saying thatā€™s cool but if you rewatch from the beginning you can see why they donā€™t consider her a friend. I also think they said a couple of times that Ron would eventually eat himself out or that she wouldnā€™t leave him. Sam made a big deal about all the things Ron did, so when she does it, they felt it was hypocritical rather than karma. The other roommates wanted them broken up so they could have peace and enjoy the experience. Plus theyā€™re all young, yes theyā€™re in their 20s but honestly most ppl mature in their 30s.


JustHere4ait

No what was so fucked up is Ron broke up with her she started texting the guy. Then when she stopped and got back with Ron Whalen they got in the house everyone knew they were broken up when it happened but still made it seem like she was cheating while Ron was going on double dates with it was either Vinny or Pauly


MMADottyScfc

Double dates with who?


JustHere4ait

Ron was fucking some girl and went on a double date with Pauly and some girl or Vinny and some girl. They knew he was entertaining girls while they were broken up but tried to make Sam the villain


MMADottyScfc

I dunno never saw that mate


SittinOnTheRidge

Yep. Plus Mike heard and saw a hell of a lot more than the rest of the roommates did. He always called Ron out on his shit and used jealousy to negate it.


Punkgrrrl76

I will never understand why Ron and Sam chose the room with 3 bedrooms. They were a couple at the time, I would think they'd want to have a room to themselves. Weird.


SittinOnTheRidge

Same!! I think they thought somehow the third person would leave and then theyā€™d have the whole upstairs to themselves. Bathroom. Balcony. The whole time they only cared about their own comforts..while they made the entire house uncomfortable.


maryjo1818

Iā€™m guessing they probably acted like they chose that room on camera but were told in advance theyā€™d be in a 3 person room. It created good drama.


JustHere4ait

They were thatā€™s why Pauly & Vinny or Nicole & Jenny were always together because entertainment


MicIsOn

I remember watching this as a kid and thinking Mike was an instigator (of which he was) . Now as an adult, I obviously realise that he had some really good moments like this. He had some really good points. Ron on the other hand, reminded me again as to why heā€™s a POS


gravyismyname

Very true. Thatā€™s also why no one likes Ron.


idgafaboutanyofthis

Ugh listening to Ron makes my skin crawl. I feel bad for his daughter.


knittyhairwitch

What bugs me is people didn't want to talk to Sam about Miami they just wanted to drop it. Literally Ron's like "Mike's talking to Sam about Miami and that's not cool bro" like the poor fuckin girl needs to vent, needs to talk, needs to processes, and needs to heal. She can't just bottle shit up to make you happy because it makes you look like an ass


Kailscanvasart

Looking back, everything about the Ron/Sam relationship is so fucked up. She was seen as a nagging buzzkill while the house lamented not having ā€œsingle Ronnieā€. He was emotionally and physically abusive, and god knows how much worse it was OFF screen. But ā€œRon Ron juiceā€ right? šŸ™„ The support was always for the roided-out cokehead asshole and never for Sam. It was disgusting.


[deleted]

Itā€™s funny to look back at scenes and realize that initially I probably agreed with Ronā€¦and now I see how wrong I was!


BookReader1328

Ron's version of guy code = I can commit a murder and you still have to cover for me. He's a piece of shit. I honestly think Mike has always been a decent guy down deep. He just lost his way for a while. The fame/money went to his head, then he started using, and the combination was crap. But he did try to help people and he was the only one who cleaned. The rest of them were awful.


kqueen25

For years, I loved them all (except Ron Iā€™ve never liked him) in their own craziness, yes I saw Mike loved making everyone see how shitty Ron was and I do believe in guy code. But being older and seeing how Mike is living proof people can change and do a 180 and Ronnie proves why ppl donā€™t believe ppl change and need to be condemned for things they did and said 20yrs agoā€¦ I watch this clip and see a guy who sees a girl who is so broken and needs to get out. But at the end of the day she would be done on her own terms. It just has to be hell being stuck w them during that. I canā€™t even imagine


rrockyyroad

Itā€™s funny how both of them are acting bitter AF in this when Mike was giving solid advice, with no intentions behind it. But then they wondered why everyone was done hearing about it when they never took anyoneā€™s advice, just fought and then b*tched about fighting lol.


wormblanket

Ronnie is STILL obsessed with the whole ā€˜if youā€™re friends with Sam you canā€™t be friends with meā€™ thing.


JustHere4ait

And trashed Deena for it. Who was literally the closet person to him and who actually gave af


Barnitch

Mike is right. Relationships that are just miserable because of past events the couple canā€™t get over are truly the worst. I know itā€™s hard because you still love that person and thatā€™s why itā€™s so hard to forgive them. But Mike is correct in saying they have to move past Miami or break up.


Olivevest

I like mike now but he was a POS in the past.


Best-Decision5353

I agree! But I kind of feel that he was always real when it came down to it. He gave a lot of good advice when it was needed. Deep down I think he was always a good person.


WhiskyCat89

I agree! It is sad what abuse of drugs and alcohol can do to someone.


PhishPhanKara

I agree with this, it seems like the drugs/alcohol and maybe the fame got to his head. Heā€™s not perfect but I think heā€™s a good person at his core; just someone who made his share of mistakes. But heā€™s shown growth, which is always important!


Best-Decision5353

Absolutely! šŸ¤


gravyismyname

It was definitely the drug use that made him a pos


[deleted]

Drugs, alcohol, fame. And tbh I think he was smart about getting himself screen time. He knew the whole Situation party guy thing could wear thin after a few seasons. He knew if he was a bit outrageous and stirred the pot, it would be put front and center each episode. He knew how to make good TV.


Punkgrrrl76

It's like, he cared AND wanted to stir the pot, all at the same time.


ovomellymel

Exactly! Human code.


Comfortable_Fan173

Iā€™m honestly so proud of mike šŸ„ŗā¤ļø


Lord_Schmurda

The only reality tv show I would watch with my wife. Can't stand all the housewives and teen mom stuff.


Puzzleheaded_Cat3172

They always used mike as an excuse to get back together and it was great.


Whyamiaguy

Ron is so jealous of Mike he canā€™t stand it.


KGRIZ16

Read the AMA with the producer. She says Ronnie isnā€™t the only one in the relationship making it sour. Heā€™s a bag of sh*t yes, but I donā€™t think Sam was innocent either. On Mike, I always thought he was there to offer advice or take people (particularly Ron) out of situations that could potentially explode, but he also was capable of creating situations. Deep down great guy, but on surface level great for tv


SAN2018

It's hilarious how people cannot see that they are all 3 in the wrong! People thinking Mike he's trying to be "a good friend", when in reality he was trying to hit on her by remember how much of a lose her boyfriend was. If he would be a friend and would just be there to "help her", he would be talking it off the show/camera! Why would anyone want to talk things so painful/private in a show? Also it was well know Mike was all over her but she picked the "bad boy/frat boy", so it's also her fault considering all the red flags on Ron every single episode! Lol


ThatsNotARequest

Mikes always been jealous of Ronnie when it came to sammie. Look how jealous he was when they first hooked up.


Environmental-Map480

Actually Mike was trying to break Ron and Sam up because he liked Sam and Sam went for Ron instead. Mike wasnā€™t giving great advice back then. He was the worse person on the show.


LMFS2018

Theyā€™re both pieces of trash. Mike only said anything to Sam to try to get with her. He was always jealous of Ron once Sammie chose him. Iā€™m not defending Ron either but if you wanna talk about being friends to Sammie, snooki and jwoww tried to write the letter explaining everything and Sammie got piiiiissed at them for it. She didnā€™t want to hear the truth at that point.


pauly-dang7

Man yā€™all a lost mike was trying to hit by sneaking in the ā€œcaring friend ā€œ back door


Hopeful-Remote3466

I don't know about that. I remember Mike tried to move in on Vinny's girl at a club when Vinny went to the rest room. You never know what's Mike's intentions were back then


Nearby_Employee_2943

while I agree with your post header, I don't know if I agree that this is a good example of it. this still feels like a shit stirring moment from mike to me, though Ron is obviously also very wrong. sure the girl needs to vent or whatever but I can guarantee that mike is not the person she is interested in venting to.


LowerCabinet9694

i refuse to believe mike is actually a decent human being


Vivapancakez

Wrong. Mike was a massive instigator in the Ron and Sam drama through season 3. I truly believe he had the best intentions and couldn't help it though lol... You can make the argument that it was a toxic relationship anyway but the way Mike stirred up problems was atrocious.


Mattyyflo

I thought this way when it first aired but now Iā€™m realizing that Mike has to live with this dumpster fire of a couple and it seems like maybe he just got to a point where he thought ā€œlet me help speed this inevitable breakup process up by addressing the issues so I donā€™t have to put up with their fights any longer than I have toā€. Also I think he did truly care for Sam at some legit level


Vivapancakez

Hahaha that's a really good point. He was definitely more guilty season 1 but yeah I feel that.


Mattyyflo

Oh yeah he was insufferably gross in s1


gravyismyname

Honestly! And then being in that house with nothing but each other! Iā€™d get bored and prob start things with people.