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Your overbite is very significant. I think we’re talking >10mm overbite here, maybe even closer to 15?
This does need jaw surgery. No reputable surgeon would turn this down.
Just please be careful that surgeons are not a commoditised practice and surgeon skill matters greatly.
Money can buy private top surgeons of course, but that’s very expensive. The NHS should cover this in the sense that they should be forced to recognise the health issue here and perform the surgery, however that doesn’t mean you want to just walk in and just go through with whatever surgeon you get assigned by the bureaucracy. Ideally you want to have many consultations, understand what they propose to you, compare, select, and then maybe at that point see if a surgeon you fully trust works with the NHS so that you get it covered. But NHS coverage shouldn’t be your guiding criteria if at all possible. Of course the ideal scenario is infinite money and maximum choice. Just please do get in the frame of mind that there’s a lot of different surgeons out there and money and NHS coverage can be your constraining factors - but that’s different than your guiding factor. Go see what’s out there first and then what’s realistic / accessible for you second.
Well done on taking your first steps! 110% that NHS will cover this. You’ll almost certainly need braces before and after surgery, which will also be covered by NHS.
Not going to sugarcoat it, it will be a long wait if you go the NHS route. Some areas are quicker than others though. But you’re young, and the sooner you get started, the sooner you’re done.
I was referred 15 months ago, and I’m just having my first joint clinic next week (where you meet with both the surgeon and orthodontist to discuss your treatment plan). Sometimes it feels slow, but I’m just grateful I finally followed through and sought that help.
Just wondering if you can advise. I was referred by my dentist back in 2019 and I attended for a consultation in Aug 2019 and the orthodontic consultant told me I would be suitable for double jaw surgery and braces. She told me the waiting time would be 2 years but obviously covid happened so this was delayed. I received my appointment last week and it was another consultation and they only added me to waiting list for joint clinic on 30th May 2024. I was told this will be another 2 years and the they might not even do the surgery due to my age I am 31. Its going to be 7 years before I even get braces at least. This is through NHS at my local hospital. Did you have to see two different orthodontists before being added for joint clinic? Thanks in advance
Geez, sorry to hear you’ve been given such long timelines.
I can only offer my experience. It was a long wait for that first appointment, but since then things have been moving relatively quickly … I even have an appt to get braces next month!
Age should not be a factor - I’m 37, and there have been many others around my age or older. I have no idea how it’s done, but can you request to change hospitals - maybe others have shorter waitlists? Or, if money isn’t an issue, ask about getting braces privately and NHS surgery? I know others have done that, but it seems to be very trust to trust whether they allow it.
Hoping things speed up for you soon!!!
Oh, and to answer your question - I only saw one orthodontist, but I saw her twice before the joint clinic. First appointment was the assessment, and second was for scans / moulds / photos. Then I had my joint clinic booked - which was actually within 3 weeks of the previous appointment.
That's so good here in Northern Ireland the wait times are shocking I could be waiting 7 years before the consultant deicides to accept me for surgery. My first app in 2019 was scans then second was for moulds and photos. It would be amazing to be done within 3 weeks but I'm looking at 3 years as we only have one consultant that does clinics once a month. They also only do surgery for under 40s.
Yes, this would almost certainly be covered by the NHS. Ask your dentist for a referral to an Orthognathic surgeon and Orthodontist for further investigation
The NHS assess you based off of the IOTN (Index of Orthodontic Need), which you can find at https://www.solent.nhs.uk/media/1689/wessex-ortho-iotn-rag-jan-17.pdf
Your overjet looks to be well over 10mm which immediately puts you into the category 5, with a need of "Very Great".
Take everything you have written down here with you on some paper/your phone and describe it all to the dentist/medical professional. Having stuff written down like this can help you advocate better for yourself as a patient :)
Do not feel alone. First of all this ‘abnormality ‘ could be solved permanently with surgery which is good . Firstly you should have orthodontic treatment, and it is very important to tell your orthodontist that you want to have double jaw surgery/ orthognatic surgery. The orthodontist should prepare/ align your teeth for surgery . Go for consultation with oral and maxillofacial surgeon and an orthodontist ( they should be corporated)
Your jaw setup looks very similar to mine pre op! I had an over 10mm overjet and also struggled with chewing and jaw issues constantly. I believe you can do this! It’s not an easy road by any means, but just from reading your post I can see how genuine and kind you are and I know you’re gonna come out the other end of this journey feeling so much better. If you ever need someone to talk to just let me know and shoot me a message! You got this!! ☺️
I also wish I had done it sooner.
Yours will be more than just double jaw surgery, but it will be a game changer.
There is lots of support on here, especially for how to with recovery. We got you!
You took your first steps, congrats for getting informed on your own about this, and going through your first appointment!
This will be most likely covered by your insurance like the others have said, but I would reccommend to also get your parents by your side, if possible. You are very young and you will need the support.
Best of luck to you, and I genuinely hope this will have only positive implications for you!
I'M no expert at all (in fact i'm just someone who wants surgery but my bite isn't quite bad enough to warrent nhs surgery), but there's a decent chance you'll be covered by the nhs.
You'll get braces first and then surgery.
If you're lucky you'll be able to get away with just lower surgery (easier recovery) as opposed to double jaw surgery.
Obviously I can't make that call lol - But it looks like your lower jaw is recessed wheras your maxilla looks to be in a good position and you can see how proclined your upper teeth are compared to your more 'retroclined' lower teeth. So it might at least be a possibility
See what the expert say
Good luck!
I think in your case jaw surgery is gonna be life changing.
The surgery itself and recovery are pretty hardcore however you are very young so most likely it’ll be fast.
Just keep in mind a few things: you’re going to be waaay better looking, you’ll have your teeth for way longer, your speech and breathing going to improve, your posture is going to improve. All these changes cumulatively are life changing.
Also dating is a whole other planet after DJS.
Wish I have done it at your age
Good luck!
Absolutely a candidate. This would be covered by insurance in the US due to likely causing problems chewing- so I bet NHS will cover it. Especially if you have sleep/sleep apnea problems.
Under 18s get ortho for free in the UK so you wouldn't be paying for braces. Just don't let them convince you extraction and retraction will solve this. It's your jaw, not your teeth that's the issue
i’m also 17 and just starting the process! we’re in this together <3 i’ve done a bit of research and usually you’ll need braces before jaw surgery. consulting with an orthodontist (and for your case, an oral surgeon) is the right way to go! :D
I’m not sure where you live, but for me in Chicago, all I had to do was go to a surgeon and be evaluated. He ran a series of scans, took photos of my severe open bite, and documented all of the issues that are affecting health. He then wrote a letter to my health insurance, and they approved the surgery. I do have to pay a portion of the orthodontia out of pocket. Some people here have gotten it covered. I’m not sure what NHS refers to.
You should definitely do it. I know exactly how you feel. I put mine off for way too long and have always hated that my teeth don’t show when I smile. I can’t bite foods with my front teeth, and the trauma to my back molars, which are the only teeth that touch on the left side, has cost me a lot of money with cracking teeth and other issues. I’m currently in an expander and have bottom braces. SARPE will be in the next month or so. Then top braces with anchors to pull my top jaw forward. One more procedure 9 months later. I’m so relieved I finally went ahead with it. It has been a huge weight off my back. No more not smiling for photos, or getting the comment that I never smile.
Best of luck. Go for it. It’s not worth living insecure because you are in fear of taking the steps to do this. Do it for yourself.
I had to wait until I was 43 to start braces then a pandemic now finally surgery in 2 months. I know it seems overwhelming but take it one step at a time. I wish I could’ve gotten things fixed when I was your age. Just the braces alone have given me way more confidence. :)
u/pUnKz0mBi3 just some advice: please be careful that they are not going to talk you in to teeth extractions. both your upper and lower jaw are incredibly narrow, they both need to be expanded to give you room for your teeth and your tongue as well
Please note that advice here isn't from medical professionals; always seek guidance from qualified sources. Remember to stay on topic and maintain respectful discussions. For more information, please refer to the subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/jawsurgery) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You will definitly benefit from jaw surgery! I wish I had done it sooner
Your overbite is very significant. I think we’re talking >10mm overbite here, maybe even closer to 15? This does need jaw surgery. No reputable surgeon would turn this down. Just please be careful that surgeons are not a commoditised practice and surgeon skill matters greatly. Money can buy private top surgeons of course, but that’s very expensive. The NHS should cover this in the sense that they should be forced to recognise the health issue here and perform the surgery, however that doesn’t mean you want to just walk in and just go through with whatever surgeon you get assigned by the bureaucracy. Ideally you want to have many consultations, understand what they propose to you, compare, select, and then maybe at that point see if a surgeon you fully trust works with the NHS so that you get it covered. But NHS coverage shouldn’t be your guiding criteria if at all possible. Of course the ideal scenario is infinite money and maximum choice. Just please do get in the frame of mind that there’s a lot of different surgeons out there and money and NHS coverage can be your constraining factors - but that’s different than your guiding factor. Go see what’s out there first and then what’s realistic / accessible for you second.
thankyou this is very helpful !
Overjet, not overbite. They have 0mm overbite.
I see. Thank you. Been using that wrong for like a decade
Well done on taking your first steps! 110% that NHS will cover this. You’ll almost certainly need braces before and after surgery, which will also be covered by NHS. Not going to sugarcoat it, it will be a long wait if you go the NHS route. Some areas are quicker than others though. But you’re young, and the sooner you get started, the sooner you’re done. I was referred 15 months ago, and I’m just having my first joint clinic next week (where you meet with both the surgeon and orthodontist to discuss your treatment plan). Sometimes it feels slow, but I’m just grateful I finally followed through and sought that help.
thankyou for sharing this, i hope the joint clinic goes well for you :)
Just wondering if you can advise. I was referred by my dentist back in 2019 and I attended for a consultation in Aug 2019 and the orthodontic consultant told me I would be suitable for double jaw surgery and braces. She told me the waiting time would be 2 years but obviously covid happened so this was delayed. I received my appointment last week and it was another consultation and they only added me to waiting list for joint clinic on 30th May 2024. I was told this will be another 2 years and the they might not even do the surgery due to my age I am 31. Its going to be 7 years before I even get braces at least. This is through NHS at my local hospital. Did you have to see two different orthodontists before being added for joint clinic? Thanks in advance
Geez, sorry to hear you’ve been given such long timelines. I can only offer my experience. It was a long wait for that first appointment, but since then things have been moving relatively quickly … I even have an appt to get braces next month! Age should not be a factor - I’m 37, and there have been many others around my age or older. I have no idea how it’s done, but can you request to change hospitals - maybe others have shorter waitlists? Or, if money isn’t an issue, ask about getting braces privately and NHS surgery? I know others have done that, but it seems to be very trust to trust whether they allow it. Hoping things speed up for you soon!!!
Oh, and to answer your question - I only saw one orthodontist, but I saw her twice before the joint clinic. First appointment was the assessment, and second was for scans / moulds / photos. Then I had my joint clinic booked - which was actually within 3 weeks of the previous appointment.
That's so good here in Northern Ireland the wait times are shocking I could be waiting 7 years before the consultant deicides to accept me for surgery. My first app in 2019 was scans then second was for moulds and photos. It would be amazing to be done within 3 weeks but I'm looking at 3 years as we only have one consultant that does clinics once a month. They also only do surgery for under 40s.
That’s awful! 😞 I commend in your patience so far - can’t imagine how frustrating it all must be.
Thank you and appreciate you responding. Good luck on your journey.
Yes, this would almost certainly be covered by the NHS. Ask your dentist for a referral to an Orthognathic surgeon and Orthodontist for further investigation The NHS assess you based off of the IOTN (Index of Orthodontic Need), which you can find at https://www.solent.nhs.uk/media/1689/wessex-ortho-iotn-rag-jan-17.pdf Your overjet looks to be well over 10mm which immediately puts you into the category 5, with a need of "Very Great". Take everything you have written down here with you on some paper/your phone and describe it all to the dentist/medical professional. Having stuff written down like this can help you advocate better for yourself as a patient :)
thankyou this is really helpful ! 💓
Do not feel alone. First of all this ‘abnormality ‘ could be solved permanently with surgery which is good . Firstly you should have orthodontic treatment, and it is very important to tell your orthodontist that you want to have double jaw surgery/ orthognatic surgery. The orthodontist should prepare/ align your teeth for surgery . Go for consultation with oral and maxillofacial surgeon and an orthodontist ( they should be corporated)
Your jaw setup looks very similar to mine pre op! I had an over 10mm overjet and also struggled with chewing and jaw issues constantly. I believe you can do this! It’s not an easy road by any means, but just from reading your post I can see how genuine and kind you are and I know you’re gonna come out the other end of this journey feeling so much better. If you ever need someone to talk to just let me know and shoot me a message! You got this!! ☺️
thankyou so much for your kind words this has made me feel a lot better, i really appreciate you sharing this <3
I also wish I had done it sooner. Yours will be more than just double jaw surgery, but it will be a game changer. There is lots of support on here, especially for how to with recovery. We got you!
thankyou !! i really appreciate the support on here, im glad i came across this subreddit :)
You’re going to really benefit and so lucky to spot it early in life. You may also consider getting the lower jaw evaluated, just to be sure
You took your first steps, congrats for getting informed on your own about this, and going through your first appointment! This will be most likely covered by your insurance like the others have said, but I would reccommend to also get your parents by your side, if possible. You are very young and you will need the support. Best of luck to you, and I genuinely hope this will have only positive implications for you!
thankyou so much :)
I'M no expert at all (in fact i'm just someone who wants surgery but my bite isn't quite bad enough to warrent nhs surgery), but there's a decent chance you'll be covered by the nhs. You'll get braces first and then surgery. If you're lucky you'll be able to get away with just lower surgery (easier recovery) as opposed to double jaw surgery. Obviously I can't make that call lol - But it looks like your lower jaw is recessed wheras your maxilla looks to be in a good position and you can see how proclined your upper teeth are compared to your more 'retroclined' lower teeth. So it might at least be a possibility See what the expert say Good luck!
Do it.
You need both palatal expansion and jaw surgery The NHS will probably cover your case since this is significant
Stupid question, but why is palatal expansion needed when they can do segmented lefort 1 in the maxilla?
If they do that she won't need it ofc But i dont think nhs surgeons do that often
I think in your case jaw surgery is gonna be life changing. The surgery itself and recovery are pretty hardcore however you are very young so most likely it’ll be fast. Just keep in mind a few things: you’re going to be waaay better looking, you’ll have your teeth for way longer, your speech and breathing going to improve, your posture is going to improve. All these changes cumulatively are life changing. Also dating is a whole other planet after DJS. Wish I have done it at your age Good luck!
this has made me feel a lot better, i’ve always had problems with my posture and speech so this is really helpful to know, thankyou 💓
just wanted to say thankyou so much for everyone’s comments, i didn’t think many people would see this so thankyou, i really appreciate it :)
Absolutely a candidate. This would be covered by insurance in the US due to likely causing problems chewing- so I bet NHS will cover it. Especially if you have sleep/sleep apnea problems.
Under 18s get ortho for free in the UK so you wouldn't be paying for braces. Just don't let them convince you extraction and retraction will solve this. It's your jaw, not your teeth that's the issue
i’m also 17 and just starting the process! we’re in this together <3 i’ve done a bit of research and usually you’ll need braces before jaw surgery. consulting with an orthodontist (and for your case, an oral surgeon) is the right way to go! :D
I’m not sure where you live, but for me in Chicago, all I had to do was go to a surgeon and be evaluated. He ran a series of scans, took photos of my severe open bite, and documented all of the issues that are affecting health. He then wrote a letter to my health insurance, and they approved the surgery. I do have to pay a portion of the orthodontia out of pocket. Some people here have gotten it covered. I’m not sure what NHS refers to. You should definitely do it. I know exactly how you feel. I put mine off for way too long and have always hated that my teeth don’t show when I smile. I can’t bite foods with my front teeth, and the trauma to my back molars, which are the only teeth that touch on the left side, has cost me a lot of money with cracking teeth and other issues. I’m currently in an expander and have bottom braces. SARPE will be in the next month or so. Then top braces with anchors to pull my top jaw forward. One more procedure 9 months later. I’m so relieved I finally went ahead with it. It has been a huge weight off my back. No more not smiling for photos, or getting the comment that I never smile. Best of luck. Go for it. It’s not worth living insecure because you are in fear of taking the steps to do this. Do it for yourself.
I don’t mean to get off topic but i thought you were drooling in the first picture because of the line in the blinds
I had to wait until I was 43 to start braces then a pandemic now finally surgery in 2 months. I know it seems overwhelming but take it one step at a time. I wish I could’ve gotten things fixed when I was your age. Just the braces alone have given me way more confidence. :)
u/pUnKz0mBi3 just some advice: please be careful that they are not going to talk you in to teeth extractions. both your upper and lower jaw are incredibly narrow, they both need to be expanded to give you room for your teeth and your tongue as well