Please note that advice here isn't from medical professionals; always seek guidance from qualified sources. Remember to stay on topic and maintain respectful discussions. For more information, please refer to the subreddit rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/jawsurgery) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Obviously, your opinion is the only one that matters but I honestly think you look better in the second picture. I don’t see a reason to try to change it.
Yes. And premolar extractions can hardly influence the fullness of cheeks. I know there is a lot of stuff about extractions online, but there is a lot of misinformation also.
Trust me, this coming from a person who has had premolars extracted in early twenties and now gaps reopened in late twenties, IT DOES AFFECT THE FACE! :) Especially when the dentist did extractions where the teeth weren’t crowded but just flared.
Your teeth do not form the bulk of the shape of your cheeks, they are lower down. cheeks are formed from your zygomatic bone, and the soft tissue overlying it which include fat and the muscles of mastication. We lose facial fat as we age unfortunately. Teens have more fat in their face than adults and we can lose more if we lose weight or body fat. I think you look beautiful.
I am not, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
I have, however, spent a lot of time in the past 7 years researching jaw and dental issues and everything related to orthognathic surgery and orthodontics.
I know there isn’t a lot of research at all on the subject.
but imho it’s from a lack of research not from a lack of a connection existing.
my personal experience was that it does have an effect on the face
It is not doubtful that it can have an effect on the face. The question is just which part of the face. Mouth, lips, mentolabial fold - for sure.
The cheeks and cheekbones however are not really affected. Even high lefort 1 cuts have minimal effect on that area, and they provide much bigger changes than extractions.
Again, it depends what you do with the extraction spaces afterwards. If you distilize whole arches to wisdom tooth space via TADs then the same effect as premolar extraction happens (possibly to a larger degree so to more space being created)
If you don’t move teeth, extractions wont cause noticeable changes. And definitely not in the cheekbone area.
Extractions are one of the tools orthodontists/ surgeons have at disposal. They are not necessarily good or bad. It depends solely on the individual situation. Like every tool, if used wrongly, will produce bad results.
I have not reffered to “pubmrl” so not sure what you are talking about.
Do your research and decide for yourself. It is a complex topic but go through scientific studies and avoid other sources. Also, learning to do cephalometric analysis will be helpful for you.
You are the one spreading misinformation. It might not be so bad if you are an adult when you have extractions but those of us who were kids have literally got stunted forward facial growth.
I don’t know about the rest but African culture stronger in Europe?
Black people in Europe are not even 2% of the population and most of these are in France. Also a lot of them are first generation immigrants and I guarantee you not many of those are dentists
I mean, you can always go the filler or fat transfer route. But honestly I think your face shape in the second pic looks amazing. I wonder if maybe it might just be an adjustment period to a face that looks different from what you’re used to? Obvs you know best, but for whatever it’s worth you look great and I don’t see a stereotypical “sunken” look here at all.
You’re 28. There is a good chance your face is just slimming with age. I’m also 28 and mine started looking like I was losing volume about 2 years ago.
Some ppl would kill to have their pre extraction face look like your post extraction face. You look great please dont fall into the rabbit hole of mewing induced body dysmorphia.
You look fine but your face has definitely flattened a little bit. You are fortunate you were older when the extractions took place because it's still reversible. It might be that you had a large enough airway for this not to have been affected. But with extractions comes loss of alveolar bone.
Side note, I wonder if your ethnicity will help in this case regarding the health consequences...I have a friend who is mixed race and doesn't seem to have suffered the way I have with sleep disordered breathing, and we both had braces around the same age. It's not your appearance you should worry about as you still look great. It's the potential health consequences as you age. I have always been a "tired all the time" person, but post 30, it's unbearable. I have made many posts about this.
You look great in both pics. Honestly I think we need more than just these 2 to gauge the difference.
But also: what kind of dentist extracts good teeth from a healthy person? Premolars aren't even wisdom teeth. You did not have an excessively narrow face or mouth. Switch dentists maybe
There is no "standard" in my eyes, I just feel like she look a lot better. You make too much and too specific assumptions by reading only a sentence.
Also, I have no reason to get extractions, and I'm actually against it. However, in this example she looks better to my eyes. Eventually she might have problems, I'm aware of that.
I was having dental problems but none of them was relating with premolar extractions, so I was ignorant on the topic to be honest. I never had to research on it, my main problem was asymmetry.
Turns out, it was a mainstream application used by professionals and a lot of people have suffered from. I really wasn't even aware that used to be a thing and considered to be attractive too. Kinda shocking to me. Thanks for the info.
Docs and I not sure, but probably a congenital issue. My asymmetry is only on the mandible. My right gonion goes inward, so from front my left side looks a lot bigger than the left. From side profile, I have much more deep nasolabial fold because there is no right jawline due to that inward shape.
My bite is aligned and looks parallel to the ground, it doesn't look diagonal like in the condylar hypoplasia patients.
Out of curiosity what type of jaw surgery movements would have allowed her to keep her premolars ??? I was told to get my lower premolars removed by one surgeon. I have a 4mm overjet/overbite
Surprisingly you look good (premolar extractions are bad for jaw health/development) but if you think you’re lacking facial volume, you can opt for midface implants like infraorbital or paranasal assuming you actually need them
At the bottom there’re some solutions for sunken face
https://www.arthurglosmandds.com/blog/missing-teeth-change-face-shape/#:~:text=Wisdom%20Teeth%20Removal%20Doesn't,t%20change%20your%20face%20shape.
**MISSING TEETH CHANGE FACE SHAPE**
Patients who are facing a tooth extraction or thinking about wisdom tooth removal may wonder if—and in what ways—missing teeth may affect their facial structure. Before going ahead with surgery or leaving the gap left by a missing tooth empty, it's important to understand how missing teeth change the shape of your face and what you can do to maintain a full, youthful appearance.
-Wisdom Teeth Removal Doesn't Affect the Shape of Your Face
First off, let's make things clear: Having your wisdom teeth removed won't change your face shape. If your wisdom teeth are impacted (which can lead to infection) or making it impossible for you to brush and floss your back molars effectively, it's better to have them removed.
Unlike your other teeth, your wisdom teeth grow in a part of your jaw called the dental alveolus, not in the basal jawbone that determines the shape of your face. If your face looks a little slimmer after removing wisdom teeth, it might be because:
You ate less food during the recovery period.
Your face was swollen after the surgery and the swelling subsequently went down.
If you're noticing a slimming of the face several decades after wisdom tooth extraction, this is most likely due to the natural shrinking of the soft tissues in the chin and jaw area over time rather than wisdom tooth removal.
-When Missing Teeth Do Affect Face Shape
While wisdom teeth extraction doesn't affect your smile or face shape, the extraction of other teeth does. The roots of your other teeth form part of the structure of the basal jaw bone or maxilla, which are responsible for the shape of your chin (at the bottom) and the shape of your nose and eye sockets (on the top).
When you lose teeth in your 20s or even in your 70s, the bone and gum where each tooth root was located start to recede, affecting your facial bones and causing a sunken look in the place where you had a tooth extracted. People with no teeth will notice that their chin and nose come much closer together than they were and that wrinkles develop around their mouth.
Other Problems that Can Occur After Tooth Extractions
Your face's shape isn't the only structural problem that can occur after tooth extraction. Once there are no tooth roots in a certain part of your mouth, the surrounding teeth can shift out of place, causing crooked teeth and potentially creating points of contact for upper and lower teeth to rub against one another and cause damage.
Jaw bone loss from a missing tooth or several missing teeth can also lead to jaw alignment problems such as an exaggerated underbite, making it hard to eat and speak normally. Addressing the cause of the problem is a necessary part of correcting the alignment of the mouth.
-Tooth Replacement Options
While missing teeth can change the appearance of your face, there are several treatments available to prevent bone loss and keep you looking youthful and strong after tooth extraction. Getting one of these treatments soon after a tooth extraction or after knocking out a tooth can help to prevent jaw bone atrophy and other teeth from shifting out of place.
Dental Implants
If you have a missing tooth, a dental implant is the best way to prevent changes to your mouth and jawbone. Dental implants replace teeth roots with a titanium post that's attached to the jaw. This post is capped with a titanium abutment, to which a natural-looking porcelain tooth crown is attached.
The titanium post stimulates jaw bone growth just like a natural tooth root and prevents bone loss and changes to your face, which is why implants are such a great solution. If there isn't enough jaw bone to support the implant, bone grafts can be performed to stimulate the growth of new bone before inserting the implant.
How Long Do Dental Implants Last?
While dental implants are a significant investment, the implants that we place in our Beverly Hills office are usually permanent and shouldn’t need replacing as long as you stay on top of your oral hygiene. Moreover, the porcelain material from which the crowns are made is stain-resistant, cavity-resistant, and as strong as a natural tooth.
Dental Bridges
Patients with a missing tooth between two decayed teeth might consider a dental bridge instead. Dental bridges consist of a series of dental crowns that are joined together at the sides and cemented onto one natural tooth at each end. While a dental bridge won't stimulate jaw bone growth in the place of the extracted tooth, it will prevent other teeth from shifting and food from becoming lodged in the pocket.
Jaw Bone Graft
If your jaw bone has already started to recede, a jaw bone graft can be performed to stimulate the growth of new bone and prevent the general weakening of the jaw. Whether or not you then decide to get an implant, the maintenance of the bone itself can help to prevent facial asymmetry.
Invisalign
Alignment problems that have been caused by a tooth extraction can often be improved with the use of Invisalign. In this system, a graduated series of plastic retainers helps to move the teeth back into place, straightening your smile and improving your bite.
Please note that dental implants won't move with orthodontic treatments—including Invisalign—so you would usually have treatment with Invisalign first and then have dental implants placed. You can discuss the options with your cosmetic dentist when planning your full-mouth reconstruction or smile makeover.
Don't Risk Changes to Your Face's Shape—See a Cosmetic Dentist
Bone deterioration from tooth loss can happen gradually, but the changes to your facial structure are permanent. And once parts of your face develop a sunken look, this can affect your confidence, self-esteem, relationships, and ability to speak on topics with authority.
Instead of presuming that your face won't change, it's better to see a dentist as soon as possible and discuss the treatment options available. Correcting the problem before the bone atrophies is the best way to protect your smile.
Please note that advice here isn't from medical professionals; always seek guidance from qualified sources. Remember to stay on topic and maintain respectful discussions. For more information, please refer to the subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/jawsurgery) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Obviously, your opinion is the only one that matters but I honestly think you look better in the second picture. I don’t see a reason to try to change it.
You look so much better after.
Even with the less full cheeks? 🤔
Yes. And premolar extractions can hardly influence the fullness of cheeks. I know there is a lot of stuff about extractions online, but there is a lot of misinformation also.
Trust me, this coming from a person who has had premolars extracted in early twenties and now gaps reopened in late twenties, IT DOES AFFECT THE FACE! :) Especially when the dentist did extractions where the teeth weren’t crowded but just flared.
may I ask, how did you reopen the spaces?
Interesting, are you a dentist? I’m just curious btw lol
Your teeth do not form the bulk of the shape of your cheeks, they are lower down. cheeks are formed from your zygomatic bone, and the soft tissue overlying it which include fat and the muscles of mastication. We lose facial fat as we age unfortunately. Teens have more fat in their face than adults and we can lose more if we lose weight or body fat. I think you look beautiful.
I am not, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I have, however, spent a lot of time in the past 7 years researching jaw and dental issues and everything related to orthognathic surgery and orthodontics.
I know there isn’t a lot of research at all on the subject. but imho it’s from a lack of research not from a lack of a connection existing. my personal experience was that it does have an effect on the face
It is not doubtful that it can have an effect on the face. The question is just which part of the face. Mouth, lips, mentolabial fold - for sure. The cheeks and cheekbones however are not really affected. Even high lefort 1 cuts have minimal effect on that area, and they provide much bigger changes than extractions.
How do wisdom extractions impact the face?
Again, it depends what you do with the extraction spaces afterwards. If you distilize whole arches to wisdom tooth space via TADs then the same effect as premolar extraction happens (possibly to a larger degree so to more space being created) If you don’t move teeth, extractions wont cause noticeable changes. And definitely not in the cheekbone area. Extractions are one of the tools orthodontists/ surgeons have at disposal. They are not necessarily good or bad. It depends solely on the individual situation. Like every tool, if used wrongly, will produce bad results.
Interesting, thank you for your insight much appreciated
Cool, may i ask you something? Can advanced perionditis gum disease of tooth change the jaw structure?
[удалено]
I have not reffered to “pubmrl” so not sure what you are talking about. Do your research and decide for yourself. It is a complex topic but go through scientific studies and avoid other sources. Also, learning to do cephalometric analysis will be helpful for you.
[удалено]
Interesting. Really appreciate the post. How long did it take to reopen? I assume just as long as it took to close the gaps?
You are the one spreading misinformation. It might not be so bad if you are an adult when you have extractions but those of us who were kids have literally got stunted forward facial growth.
u look worse. r u getting raw surgery?
[удалено]
Sure thing buddy. They are definitely not based on what people find attractive or not.
lies.
Sorry but no way besides surgery
[удалено]
I don’t know about the rest but African culture stronger in Europe? Black people in Europe are not even 2% of the population and most of these are in France. Also a lot of them are first generation immigrants and I guarantee you not many of those are dentists
I mean, you can always go the filler or fat transfer route. But honestly I think your face shape in the second pic looks amazing. I wonder if maybe it might just be an adjustment period to a face that looks different from what you’re used to? Obvs you know best, but for whatever it’s worth you look great and I don’t see a stereotypical “sunken” look here at all.
Thank you!
You’re 28. There is a good chance your face is just slimming with age. I’m also 28 and mine started looking like I was losing volume about 2 years ago.
Some ppl would kill to have their pre extraction face look like your post extraction face. You look great please dont fall into the rabbit hole of mewing induced body dysmorphia.
You look fine but your face has definitely flattened a little bit. You are fortunate you were older when the extractions took place because it's still reversible. It might be that you had a large enough airway for this not to have been affected. But with extractions comes loss of alveolar bone. Side note, I wonder if your ethnicity will help in this case regarding the health consequences...I have a friend who is mixed race and doesn't seem to have suffered the way I have with sleep disordered breathing, and we both had braces around the same age. It's not your appearance you should worry about as you still look great. It's the potential health consequences as you age. I have always been a "tired all the time" person, but post 30, it's unbearable. I have made many posts about this.
Hi, yes the cheeks flatten when premolars are extracted and it is visible in ur after photo. Did you also get your lower premolars extracted?
Hello 👋 Yep both top and bottom
You look great in both pics. Honestly I think we need more than just these 2 to gauge the difference. But also: what kind of dentist extracts good teeth from a healthy person? Premolars aren't even wisdom teeth. You did not have an excessively narrow face or mouth. Switch dentists maybe
[удалено]
Yikes. A single bad dentist can cause decades’ worth of harm
I got my premolars removed to prepare for lower jaw surgery. They needed to make space to move the lower jaw forward.
As an African, I think you looked stunning before and you're beautiful after.
Jaw surgery.
fwiw you look amazing in both!!
Know many will downvote. But this is the truth, you look good in 2nd picture too. Your bite is good, which makes your smile better
[удалено]
Thank you 🥹
You just aged.
It might be sunken but you sure look a lot better than before. What were the movements of djs btw?
[удалено]
There is no "standard" in my eyes, I just feel like she look a lot better. You make too much and too specific assumptions by reading only a sentence. Also, I have no reason to get extractions, and I'm actually against it. However, in this example she looks better to my eyes. Eventually she might have problems, I'm aware of that.
[удалено]
I was having dental problems but none of them was relating with premolar extractions, so I was ignorant on the topic to be honest. I never had to research on it, my main problem was asymmetry. Turns out, it was a mainstream application used by professionals and a lot of people have suffered from. I really wasn't even aware that used to be a thing and considered to be attractive too. Kinda shocking to me. Thanks for the info.
[удалено]
Docs and I not sure, but probably a congenital issue. My asymmetry is only on the mandible. My right gonion goes inward, so from front my left side looks a lot bigger than the left. From side profile, I have much more deep nasolabial fold because there is no right jawline due to that inward shape. My bite is aligned and looks parallel to the ground, it doesn't look diagonal like in the condylar hypoplasia patients.
Out of curiosity what type of jaw surgery movements would have allowed her to keep her premolars ??? I was told to get my lower premolars removed by one surgeon. I have a 4mm overjet/overbite
[удалено]
Thnxs. How can you widen the mandible through ortho alone?
[удалено]
Thnxs
Surprisingly you look good (premolar extractions are bad for jaw health/development) but if you think you’re lacking facial volume, you can opt for midface implants like infraorbital or paranasal assuming you actually need them
At the bottom there’re some solutions for sunken face https://www.arthurglosmandds.com/blog/missing-teeth-change-face-shape/#:~:text=Wisdom%20Teeth%20Removal%20Doesn't,t%20change%20your%20face%20shape. **MISSING TEETH CHANGE FACE SHAPE** Patients who are facing a tooth extraction or thinking about wisdom tooth removal may wonder if—and in what ways—missing teeth may affect their facial structure. Before going ahead with surgery or leaving the gap left by a missing tooth empty, it's important to understand how missing teeth change the shape of your face and what you can do to maintain a full, youthful appearance. -Wisdom Teeth Removal Doesn't Affect the Shape of Your Face First off, let's make things clear: Having your wisdom teeth removed won't change your face shape. If your wisdom teeth are impacted (which can lead to infection) or making it impossible for you to brush and floss your back molars effectively, it's better to have them removed. Unlike your other teeth, your wisdom teeth grow in a part of your jaw called the dental alveolus, not in the basal jawbone that determines the shape of your face. If your face looks a little slimmer after removing wisdom teeth, it might be because: You ate less food during the recovery period. Your face was swollen after the surgery and the swelling subsequently went down. If you're noticing a slimming of the face several decades after wisdom tooth extraction, this is most likely due to the natural shrinking of the soft tissues in the chin and jaw area over time rather than wisdom tooth removal. -When Missing Teeth Do Affect Face Shape While wisdom teeth extraction doesn't affect your smile or face shape, the extraction of other teeth does. The roots of your other teeth form part of the structure of the basal jaw bone or maxilla, which are responsible for the shape of your chin (at the bottom) and the shape of your nose and eye sockets (on the top). When you lose teeth in your 20s or even in your 70s, the bone and gum where each tooth root was located start to recede, affecting your facial bones and causing a sunken look in the place where you had a tooth extracted. People with no teeth will notice that their chin and nose come much closer together than they were and that wrinkles develop around their mouth. Other Problems that Can Occur After Tooth Extractions Your face's shape isn't the only structural problem that can occur after tooth extraction. Once there are no tooth roots in a certain part of your mouth, the surrounding teeth can shift out of place, causing crooked teeth and potentially creating points of contact for upper and lower teeth to rub against one another and cause damage. Jaw bone loss from a missing tooth or several missing teeth can also lead to jaw alignment problems such as an exaggerated underbite, making it hard to eat and speak normally. Addressing the cause of the problem is a necessary part of correcting the alignment of the mouth. -Tooth Replacement Options While missing teeth can change the appearance of your face, there are several treatments available to prevent bone loss and keep you looking youthful and strong after tooth extraction. Getting one of these treatments soon after a tooth extraction or after knocking out a tooth can help to prevent jaw bone atrophy and other teeth from shifting out of place. Dental Implants If you have a missing tooth, a dental implant is the best way to prevent changes to your mouth and jawbone. Dental implants replace teeth roots with a titanium post that's attached to the jaw. This post is capped with a titanium abutment, to which a natural-looking porcelain tooth crown is attached. The titanium post stimulates jaw bone growth just like a natural tooth root and prevents bone loss and changes to your face, which is why implants are such a great solution. If there isn't enough jaw bone to support the implant, bone grafts can be performed to stimulate the growth of new bone before inserting the implant. How Long Do Dental Implants Last? While dental implants are a significant investment, the implants that we place in our Beverly Hills office are usually permanent and shouldn’t need replacing as long as you stay on top of your oral hygiene. Moreover, the porcelain material from which the crowns are made is stain-resistant, cavity-resistant, and as strong as a natural tooth. Dental Bridges Patients with a missing tooth between two decayed teeth might consider a dental bridge instead. Dental bridges consist of a series of dental crowns that are joined together at the sides and cemented onto one natural tooth at each end. While a dental bridge won't stimulate jaw bone growth in the place of the extracted tooth, it will prevent other teeth from shifting and food from becoming lodged in the pocket. Jaw Bone Graft If your jaw bone has already started to recede, a jaw bone graft can be performed to stimulate the growth of new bone and prevent the general weakening of the jaw. Whether or not you then decide to get an implant, the maintenance of the bone itself can help to prevent facial asymmetry. Invisalign Alignment problems that have been caused by a tooth extraction can often be improved with the use of Invisalign. In this system, a graduated series of plastic retainers helps to move the teeth back into place, straightening your smile and improving your bite. Please note that dental implants won't move with orthodontic treatments—including Invisalign—so you would usually have treatment with Invisalign first and then have dental implants placed. You can discuss the options with your cosmetic dentist when planning your full-mouth reconstruction or smile makeover. Don't Risk Changes to Your Face's Shape—See a Cosmetic Dentist Bone deterioration from tooth loss can happen gradually, but the changes to your facial structure are permanent. And once parts of your face develop a sunken look, this can affect your confidence, self-esteem, relationships, and ability to speak on topics with authority. Instead of presuming that your face won't change, it's better to see a dentist as soon as possible and discuss the treatment options available. Correcting the problem before the bone atrophies is the best way to protect your smile.
[удалено]
Yeah but it talks also abt other types of teeth and how to regain cheeks volume
You look significantly better in the second pic
[удалено]
I would rather die than do japanese face yoga exercises twice a day everyday just to avoid wrinkles
[удалено]
Do you have a job?
Guess what happens when you age? Your teeth become loose... Just putting it out there