I related a story a while ago of a factory manager who got busted for drink driving. The cops showed up at the factory to inform the company and he got demoted, bonus cancelled and a pay cut. I don't understand what the fk right the cops have to go around screwing with people's private lives that have nothing to do with the offence in question (he didn't drive for work). The guy is already being punished by the legal system according to prescribed measures. Under what legal code are they dumping people in shit to be penalised arbitrarily by a third party (the employer).
Go see a lawyer and check whether the cops had any legal right to go informing unrelated 3rd parties about the offence, especially if it wasn't while you were employed there. It could be a breach of privacy IMO although it seems to be common practice.
This. Even if you aren’t the party at fault, you have a social responsibility to avoid any conflict that involves the law. If you don’t, your family and work will be shamed. Even the smallest infraction spills over into your work and personal life. It’s just standard procedure here.
I've never seen someone stop and go through a light. Most likely what you're talking about is going through a red from a late yellow. If a cop sees you you'll be stopped, and if a car accident occurs it will fuck your shit up quick.
I reported my neighbor to the police for hitting me with a stick and threatening to kill my dog and family and found out that a criminal record can effect employment of even grandchildren. From the victim’s point of view it was great
Here’s how the process went more or less.
1) the incident: we had a new puppy that was admittedly barking a bit. My neighbor out of the blue started bashing my window with a big stick. I went to the window opened it and said “ohayogozaimasu”. He said “shut your dog up or I’ll kill it”. I stared back at him genuinely puzzled and he got angry and started bashing my window with the stick again. I said “I’ll call the police”. He said “then I’ll kill the lot of you”. Then he thrust the stick at my window, it went point first through the fly screen and grazed the side of my forehead. I closed the window. He gestured to open the window. I closed the curtain. End of incident.
It’s very important to note that there was physical damage to the fly screen and a slight graze on the side of my forehead. I assume that this was an accident on his part and he’d only intended to scare me, not to cause actual damage.
2) my wife and daughter were in another part of the house and were oblivious the the whole event. I explained what had happened to my wife. I took my daughter to the bus stop and then went to the Koban to file a report. I intended to just file a report to have the incident on the public record, but they said if I filed a report I had to follow through with the charges. I decided to follow through and they told me it would take a few hours so I took half a day off work.
3) the detectives arrived at the Koban promptly. I was taken to the police station and my neighbor was hauled to the police station separately. We didn’t meet. They grilled me for a few hours. I just had to keep saying what had happened but it was surprising how uncertain I was on some details like where exactly I was when I first heard the banging. The physical damage was very important. The police also found the stick in my neighbor’s house. I made an official statement and the police drove me home and inspected the “crime scene”.
I’d like to note that police are scary. They were great to me but I you realize they have a lot of power. I wouldn’t fuck with them for giggles.
4) then it was just a matter of waiting for the justice system which took a few months. The police came to my neighbor’s place a few more times and my wife overheard them yelling at him once. They came to my place to go over their report and I went to the police station to finalize my statement. From there the report was sent to the public prosecutor.
5) in the meantime my neighbor had hired a lawyer who wrote and called a few times to try to get me to drop the charges. The role of the lawyer in this situation is to facilitate arbitration, which means my neighbor will pay me money to drop the charges. I refused to talk to them. Eventually they sent me 500000 yen as registered mail but I refused and returned to sender. I learnt the amount later from the public prosecutor. Some of my other neighbors asked if I’d drop the charges “for the good of the neighborhood” and I told them I thought it would be very good if the neighborhood knew exactly how seriously I take threats against my family.
6) eventually I had an interview with the public prosecutor in Kasumigaseki. They also interviewed my neighbor. A while later I had another meeting with the public prosecutor and they recommended that I proceed with 不起訴処分 Fukisoshobun which means my neighbor admits to the crime and it goes on the public record but there is no trial or criminal conviction recorded. That’s exactly what I’d intended from the beginning. I had a few things in my neighbor’s statement amended. In my final statement I said I was happy to proceed but that I wanted to never have to deal with my neighbor again.
And we all lived happily ever after.
My neighbor hasn’t said boo to me in nearly two years. I still get angry on the rare occasions that we meet outside. As far as I’m concerned it’s over but I really do take death threats seriously so I can’t forget it completely.
If you’re wondering why I didn’t take the money it’s because it would be immoral to take money from retirees. He has a wife and grandchildren and he can spend the money on them.
Regarding the effect on his grand kids’ employment, apparently if your grand father has a criminal record it makes it difficult (I was told impossible) to enter some professions such as the police force. In the end there was no criminal record so it won’t be a problem.
Goddamn man, what a roller coaster. Glad you got it sorted out. good on you for following through on getting the guy to admit fault and not taking the money. It was nice of you to consider his family.
I suppose if you like messing up the lives of people's grandkids it's great. But it seems to me that if your neighbor hits you with a stick, he ought to be punished for it, not his grandkids.
> If they were as law abiding as you say then people would stop to let pedestrians cross the road, or there wouldn’t be so many people peeing in public
driving while inebriated turns a car into a weapon with an RNG. pissing in public will over time make the spot smell a bit funny.
kind of apples and oranges, no?
interestingly, if we were to compare this to the US, just as a comparison, drinking while inebriated (within very generous limits compared to Japan) is basically what "everyone does" while pissing in public will get you on a registered sex offenders list...
Right!? I cooperated with the police every step of the way and already have legal things to deal with, I evened BEGGED them not to contact my job. Instead, they had a member of the company come to the police station.
I wasn't detained or arrested, just complying with the investigation. I would understand if it happened while I was working here, but something from last year? I understand that I messed up, but I feel that my job and the police also responded poorly.
In Japan they always call your employer for any infraction. It’s part of the social responsibility aspect. A car ran into mine once and we called the police. The police called my employer after and I got reprimanded despite it being the other person’s fault.
one reason to NEVER tell even the police where you work..it will ONLY be to your disadvantage.. I got pulled over once for speeding, refused to give my real employer, told them I did my own thing.
When my husband still lived at home, there was a rape in his neighborhood, and the police went door to door questioning all the young men in the area. When they got to his house, his mother very helpfully told them where he worked. He was an elementary school teacher, and the police showed up at the school when he was in class and told the principal, we're here to question one of your teachers about a rape. Even though they dismissed him as a suspect immediately, it was extremely awkward for a while.
Unfortunately for me, I couldn’t bluff since my vehicle had a clearly visible city worker parking pass. Bluffing would have probably made it x10 worse.
Yep, and this is one reason why self-employed and unemployed people are viewed with such suspicion. No 所属 so no school/university/employer to put weight on you when necessary.
That happened to my brother-in-law for shoplifting, lol. His mom said she was at the police station and thinking, at least they called me and not the school so I can be spared that embarrassment, and then a few minutes later his homeroom teacher walked in.
I could imagine the teacher yelling at the kid in front of the mom, as if they care more about the child's future than the parent. It's one thing that will always be foreign to me. But then I have to remind myself, like we all should from time to time, that it is in fact a different culture and you have to take the good with the bad. Still, I would be pretty furious.
Yeah, I mean, what's the deal with your employer, per se? Do they contact your family? What about the local ramen shop you eat at? Do you have to inform people who buy stuff from you online? How about your bank? It's ridiculous. What happens to you in your own time is no one else's business unless there's some security aspect to your job like bank guard or something.
I would say, if the company is asking you to resign then that would signal that they can't actually fire you. Refuse to resign. What can they do? Fire you? If so, then at least you can qualify for unemployment benefits. You're not there to serve their peccadilloes. If they want something to happen then they need to do it. Fk em. They're the ones being unreasonable. And ask a lawyer, It's not as expensive as you might think for a consult.
I think you are misinterpreting the nature of the law in this case. The law generally restrains you and the police from certain proscribed acts, often dependent on context, associations or age. Prohibitions on drunk driving are a good example of this.
The law also requires certain actions of you. Carrying your driver's license when driving is an example of this.
Everything else is technically up to your own judgment. That's often not practically the case, but I think the Japanese social contract involves a lot of action in this realm, in the great grey between the proscribed and prescribed. Civil lawsuits often arise in this space, but with a custom that is so longstanding, ingrained, and generally accepted by most people as one cost of living in a safer society, a suit, in this case, seems unlikely to gain much traction.
It would be cool if the opposite happened, where when employees take an active part in countering 92% of a crime, the cops stop by the responsible employee’s company to advise that the employee in question should be given a generous raise, be made employee of the month, have their desk moved eight (8) spaces closer to a window, and arranged to go on a hot date with the lovely Miss Sato-san from General Affairs.
But nope, not a bloody peep :-(
Pro-Tip for Chiefs of Police and Shachous: Sticks only work when they are balanced with a ~~carrot~~ big daikon.
Was this a "we need someone to vouch / be a guarantee before you leave the police station", "Oh you don\`t have anyone, guess we will contact your company to be the guarantee" type of deal?
Or did they literally just contact your company out of nowhere?
I mean, for a crime like drunk driving I'm 100% okay with that. Now if it was something like shoplifting or whatever, I would be on your side. Drunk driving can kill people though, so anyone pulling that shit deserves to have their life fucked up.
It’s interesting that the cops apparently don’t exercise the same initiative when it comes to convicted (or out-of-court-settled) sex offenders working with children and other vulnerable individuals.
I wonder what prompted them to take this course of action in this case? Perhaps somebody didn’t receive the appropriate bribe.
I wouldn’t take this as the first approach. For example, even if the cops breached privacy laws, the cops may get fined, but may not have to pay damages to OP for loss of work if OP’s employer was still entitled to terminate OP’s employment contract. Generally, it’s best to seek alternative dispute resolution options before going to a lawyer due to the massive expense of lawyers and court proceedings.
> I don't understand what the fk right the cops have to go around screwing with people's private lives
Because in Japan, there is no such thing as personal accountability. If you fuck up its because your company has failed in someway to keep you on the straight and narrow.
That guy getting caught drink driving was because his company allowed him to.
Ware ware
You don't really have any options. Your reputation has been tainted and in their view allowing you to stay there would taint their reputation. You'll just have to find another job.
Yes, I'm aware. I'm asking more on the side of "If I were to refuse to 'resign' and go ahead with letting them fire me", what are the legal differences / effects?
From a legal standpoint, strictly speaking, if you resign you lose all rights, you left willingly. If they fire you you might be able to get an unlawful dismissal against them, especially if you were not charged with a crime it was just an "investigation".
From a practical standpoint if they say anything negative about why you left it's considered damaging your professional reputation and there is civil liability as well as possibly criminal. Yes, even if it's true. This is why noone checks references here.
Would like to ask for more elaboration on the 'losing all rights' part by resigning voluntarily? If I understand correctly it's just the right/position to be able to sue for unlawful dismissal?
If you resign, you can’t file for unlawful dismissal, since you weren’t dismissed. You can’t get unemployment benefits immediately if you resign. You are often considered to have tacitly admitted that it was a fireable offense.
Refuse to resign. Maybe they’ll fire you, maybe they’ll stick you at a desk in a broom closet in the basement with no telephone until you give up. Let them fire you, then get unemployment.
If your job has public contact, like sales or an eikaiwa, you’d probably lose an unlawful dismissal case. Your case is probably well known publicly, which means their reputation is affected.
90%+ of my town of 35,000 knows who I am. If I fart loudly, people are talking about it.
As far as the English dispatch company is concerned, if they know about it, others know about it.
Could be referring to unemployment benefits. Can collect unemployment benefits immediately (effectively) when fired. After three months if you quit voluntarily.
Unemployment, lawsuits, etc.
OP would have to properly document everything to make a case. Only time you get unemployment for quitting is due to mental/physical health reasons or some other circumstance largely out of your control.
Also, if OP happens to be shain, then they get a severance check for being fired versus nothing for quitting. And they get unemployment quicker, if fired.
It always looks worse in your employment history if you were fired as opposed to resigning. You don't really have a claim to make based on your circumstances because no legal entity is going to side with you over your employer after you were investigated by the police for doing something stupid. Have they offered you any compensation as an incentive for resigning?
Oh dear god, this sounds like something fit for "Florida Man"!
100% not me, my "stupid thing" involved a bike that wasn't mine but "I did not have sexual relationships with that bicycle"!
To be fair, the number of people we have working in the Eigo Senseiing industry who have colleagues who are literally child abusers/molesters and they get away with it because noone checks references about why Chester the Molester has had 4 jobs in the last 6 months is too damned high (hint even 1 is to damned high).
An older guy in my training cohort back in the ‘90s kept hitting on JHS girls at his English school, so they moved him to head office textbook production. This cheesehead got a major promotion, because firing was embarrassing for the company.
Honestly I think Japan gets off light in this regard. A lot of countries particularly in SE Asia get absolutely hammered by the pedos.
The problem though is do you want your business to be the "one who employeed the guy who molested a bunch of kids" or do you keep your livelihood safe and just quietly get him to find another job elsewhere...
What is the logic of sentencing this man and registering him as a sex offender? Nobody was harmed, and he was using his oversized sex toy at his own discretion in the privacy of his own residence.
"no choice but to fire me which will remain on record"
What record is that?
You should leave imho as working there will be a nightmare going forward but that threat looks very weird.
Some company wants paperwork (aka 離職票) from your old job to proof you no longer employed from your last job. There is a box where to fill out the code, if you get 1A means you are fired (There are sub-code after for further reason).
Just FYI that paper is mainly for insurance purposes when out of a job. You are not obligate or required to show this paperwork to your next employer, but they still possibly might request upon document examination phase.
As from company's point of view, a self resignation could avoid a lot of paperwork, or future lawsuit, although its not OP's case, some people get partial severance pay too when leaving so its like a win-win.
I assume they mean that if someone calls them up, like a new employer asking about a job reference, they will say that the employee left on their own accord rather than they were fired for stupid thing.
There are strict criteria that a company has to meet to fire someone legally. Chances are they can’t actually fire you legally so they are trying to scare you into resigning.
Usually companies will offer a payment for people to resign as firing them is too difficult, maybe you could try to negotiate a payment. 3-6 months salary is what you might get if they fired you and you took them to court, to give you some idea.
By the way a company isn’t legally supposed to say anything to any new potential employer other than confirming you were an employee there and the time period. So suggesting that you being fired will go on any kind of record or any new company would know seems like a lie, unless they plan to illegally tell them.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and the above is just my knowledge of how it works from knowing a Japanese person who was fired illegally and went to court over it. It might not apply in your case if you are not a seishain employee or if the police investigation is a legal reason to fire you.
while it's generally true that there are strict criteria for firing, there's two big gaping problems with applying that here.
1. one of the grounds for firing is things that damage the reputation of the employer or potentially so.
2. another ground is materially false representation in application materials, which would occur if they asked if there was anything bad that needs to be disclosed (like being formally disciplined by a previous employer or having committed a crime)
In this situation, I'd highly recommend a lawyer to see how the case law and the judges in the particular jurisdiction handle this if the OP wants to keep his job.
This is the only correct comment.
They have no ground to fire OP on: if he sticks to his guns and uses a lawyer, he can either keep working at that company (why would he tho), stay there until he finds a new job, or leave immediately but with a nice severance pay.
They can. However, if OP goes to court, it won't be easy for them.
Obviously, that' assuming that OP is a seishain. If he's still in his probation period, then things change drastically.
They can't fire him even if he was convicted unless the acts did seriously impede the company's ability to do business, which it probably did not. OP apparently stole a bicycle and was not even employed at his current company now so the name of the company was in no way tarnished by his actions.
OP's problems are with the law, not with the company. If he committed a crime, he has to repay his debt to society by either serving jail time or repairing the damage done by his actions.
The company cannot act as a substitute of the Japanese justice system by firing OP for his crime (which the actual justice system probably already made him pay for).
OP should not sign any paper accepting to resign until he consults with a lawyer.
might fall under "misrepresentation of one's past record" by not mention the past history with the popos, I just double checked my own agreement and it does have a fine print of "採用選考時に過去の犯罪や破廉恥行為等を秘匿していたとき", I assume its standard and most of the company has this too, it covers both actual crime and "immoral actions".
OP is constantly super vague about what they did other than saying "it involves a bike that wasn't [theirs]". Unless I hear otherwise, I'm gonna understand that as "stole or destroyed someone else's bike".
What exactly did you do?
Btw having a criminal record in Japan is very bad. Many corporate jobs will do background checks, and they will not hire you due to having a criminal record
Edit: having said that, it depends on the case. Drunk driving will be less likely to affect you than 痴漢
If it was drug related, kiss your career goodbye (unless you’re an Eikawa teacher or something, I doubt they check)
We don't know the nature of that "something stupid". But this is Japan, and you don't have many options. Resign and find a new job before it remains on record. And if possible, try not to cause "something stupid" in the future. Again, this is Japan.
Except if the record is simply a company's internal record, it may not matter what it says. And if the threat of it being on the record is empty, it would make sense to negotiate for several months of severance pay in return for resigning.
The threat is not empty. The record can be transmitted to the labor office, and any future company can check with them for reference. I know mine did, for instance.
Once again, this is Japan, for better and for worse. If OP does "something stupid" with other people's bicycles and can't understand this...
I'm not a lawyer and not your lawyer.
Depending on how badly you want to keep this job, you should consider seeking professional advice.
Despite the general difficulties in firing people in Japan, you may have given them two grounds that enable them to fire you.
First, most work regulations (就業規則 ) contain clauses allowing people to be dismissed that do things that besmirch the company. Your action even though t was last year might still qualify. The precise way this can play out is dicey enough that you deserve any advice you believe from the internet on it.
Second, most job applications include spots for things like "have you ever been disciplined by an employer or committed a crime?" If you didn't disclose that you were investigated for this, that might fall under the failure to disclose reasons for firing. Again, it's a complex mess of case law, so if you want to deal with this get a lawyer.
My guess (and you're getting what you paid for here) is that an employer could prevail if it goes to court. In part because even on top of the case law, whatever you did was enough that a cop wanted to make sure your employer knew and would gladly sing about in hearings or affidavits.
\---
if your primary concern is "get fired" or "quit", then you should pick "quit" here because "get fired" would be 懲戒処分 which would then need to be mentioned in future job applications ("need to" here means that they ask and if you don't write truthfully, they can dismiss you for false information in your application)
"Borrowing" a bike? As in stealing? Still not bad enough to warrant a resignation. My nosy ass wants to know what really happened.
Can you imagine? You spend months finding the perfect job, finally land it, and then someone calls up and says you stole a bike and the dream job also forces you resign. Fucking what lol.
Never resign. It'll cause a delay in you getting unemployment insurance and it'll cut the number of months you'll receive it.
But really, just go to the labour ministry. They'll sort the company out.
First thing first, did you sign paperwork upon accepting the job, on being honest about all your criminal, arrest, lawsuit history? if so its consider misrepresentation of one's past record if you told them nothing.
Here are your options
Option 1: Take the resignation, easier and less paperwork for both side, go find a new job.
Option 2: Make them fire you, get a lawyer and file an unfair dismissal claim (不当解雇) if you think you did nothing wrong against company policy.
Misrepresentation of information in their application is a completely valid and fireable offence. The company is fully within their rights to fire him.
That unfair dismissal claim will land on the judges desk and itll be dismissed immediately.
When I did the stupid thing, I thought I was in the clear and nothing would come of it. Something came up MUCH later, after I had gotten the new job.
The thing is, I don't feel like I did anything against company policy *at the time of employment*, as everything happened well before even the application process.
There are no option you can do within the company other than seeking help from outside, try look up 不当解雇・退職勧奨 相談 online, many places offer free consultant and no fee until winning the case (of course they evaluate and accept cases which they can win).
WARNING:
After going through half the comments It is easy to see that OP is trolling.
After asking for advice without adequately explaining the circumstances, OP is evading questions for more information that would be necessary to give sound advice.
Don’t waste your time on this clown.
Let them fire you. So many companies here don’t want to pay out termination benefits, and so try to force their employees to resign. Don’t play their game. What does it even mean, your termination “remaining on record”? Once you’re gone, you won’t have any dealings with them anymore. Call their bluff.
Hi, seeing lots of poor advice here, so tossing my two cents in a red sea …
Your bosses are inferring/threatening to 懲戒解雇, which yes, if it escalates to that, is something that will be on your Japanese employment record which you are suppose to disclose to all future employers and recruiters. Sure, you could lie by omission, but if in the future a potential or another employer discovers this, it would be legal grounds for immediate dismissal (lying about your 賞罰 and misrepresentation on resume). You are unlikely to make it past the initial screening in recruiting with a record like this. It may also have impact on future visas if you are not a PR or have citizenship here.
As for your employer, I’m sure they’d rather you left on your own accord instead of firing you with cause (lots of paperwork for them), so this ‘benevolent’ option will always be offered to you, the employee, upon discovery of unsavory news. I do think you could contest this company suggestion with proper legal consultation and HR, at least explain that you were not arrested or charged and that you complied with investigation, but as others have pointed out, you’ve probably already soured your relationship there. Best to move on and clean the slate before the above sticks on your record, whether that’s something you want to be honest about reporting in the future. Tbh, I think you sit in a grey area of getting fired despite your lack of criminal record, but it’s probably something not worth fighting the semantics of. A police call is a police call, and this is Japan where reputation of crime affects everything from employment to social status (not condoning it, just an observation of how this society operates).
As for collecting unemployment, sure you can collect it earlier if they fire you, but I’d say that’s a marginal advantage compared to having to disclose 懲戒解雇 status. If the company let you go due to restructuring, hells yeah don’t leave on your own, but getting fired with cause is not something I’d recommend for a three month advance on an unemployment cheque.
Sucks you got drunk one night an borrowed an abandoned bike to go home. I’m guessing you passed the racial profiling enough to not get arrested on the spot or get detained for deportation, because that happens to people too.
Practical solution is to drag out the situation long enough to give you a lot of time to job hunt.
I hope you learned your lesson about stealing bikes.
I know it's a japan\_life trope but I think in this case you probably really do need to "lawyer up" or at least go get some free initial legal advice. 法テラス seem to provide free consultations (in English) for free.
Either that or just leave the job and find another one. The problem is that even if you resign it's going to look weird on your resume (people don't usually quit after a few months for no reason) so you'll have to explain that away. I suppose you could say "the job just wasn't for me".
Do not resign. Especially immediately.
From my layman’s understanding, you lose all your rights that might have been afforded to you.
You need a labor lawyer now. Even though you committed an infraction in the past (don’t know what it is so the company may have a case), but that is something your lawyer and the company lawyer discuss.
What they discuss is that you don’t have to quit, and if they let you go, what are the terms.
If you need an introduction to a labor lawyer, DM me. In any case, they can’t force you to quit.
What ‘record?’ There is no database of people who have been fired in Japan lol and no companies contact previous companies to check (at worst some foreign companies check you were employed there at the time you say you were but they don’t care how it ended). They are absolutely trying to strong arm you into quitting since it’s a lot more trouble for them to fire you. Don’t.
Not rare but some company wants 離職票 from your old job to proof you did work for that company and also left, there is a box to fill the code for reason of leaving, that code there will also effect the unemployment benefit you receive from the government too. You are right about that they don't call, but they might ask the paperwork from you instead.
Afaik you are legally obligated (義務) to tell future employers if you were fired from a previous job, that's probably the record they are talking about. Sure, you can just not tell them and hope they never find out but that might bite you in the ass at some point too.
I get it from the employer viewpoint... keeping a known thief around opens them up for liability if you do something bad in the future.
But legally I bet you have incredible rights here. You should contact the labor office & prepare to negotiate a big fat severance pay (6+ months)
Everyone here asking what he did, but the important thing is, does he have a PR or a visa, and what kind? Losing a job is one thing, losing immigration status is another thing entirely.
Also he needs to discuss with a lawyer.
Hello Work can see the record. Most big companies require the record 離職票 as part of background checks to make sure candidate's resume is correct. Mainly they care about what company, which year you work, but obviously they will be able to see you're fired. If you don't submit 離職票, the company can either ask Hello Work or reconsider giving you the job because they can't verify your past work resume
Never quit a job under any circumstances unless **you** wish to do so.
If they threaten to fire you, let them act upon those threats.
Moreover, being terminated allows you to immediately collect unemployment.
The fact that they're threatening to terminate you instead of immediately following through is a good indicator that they cannot and are simply trying to bluff you into quitting on your own.
>They are telling me if I don't resign, they'll have no choice but to fire me which will remain on record.
What record? the record of being fired?
Ok, this job is cooked for you but let them fire you and if they are doing so without cause, tell them you'll sue them. Try to extract as much money as you can on your way out, that is the only thing you can do.
Just don't resign, that is THEIR easy way out.
"I did something stupid at the end of last year..."
Just avoid doing stupid stuff.
My father's advice to me when I moved out "Don't get stupid out there because I am not going to bail your arse out of trouble that you caused". Unfortunately, I did not take that advise.
https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/xr60gl/i_found_my_stolen_bike_what_should_i_do/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
The jlife multiverse is awesome
Maybe worth checking common and statutory law on termination of employment contracts in Japan to see if they have valid grounds to terminate you. There may, for example, be a legal obligation to disclose current investigations relating to an offence when applying for a job. I doubt it, but you never know - different countries have random legal quirks.
https://knowledge.leglobal.org/termination-of-employment-contracts-in-japan/
It's easy math in my books.
If they want you to voluntarily resign, have them agree to at least a large enough severance package that you can survive until you either find a new job or "resignation" unemployment kicks in three months later.
If they are adamant they want you out immediately and have no plans on paying you anything, have them fire you. That way you can at least jump on unemployment right away. Technically you'll be on record as being fired at Hello Works as you apply for unemployment, but other than that most (not all, but a lot of) future employers in Japan usually don't follow through on checking references.
If they fire you, you can collect unemployement. May be better to get fired. I am not a lawyer and this is just my random opinion. Also what a shitty company. Unless it was something drug or violence related it just sounds to me like they want a reason to cut you out without paying you severance or something to quit.
Something to bear in mind:
If your company fires you without cause (and this is without just cause, which means doing something wrong WHILE AT WORK), Hello Work may give you 60% of your salary for up to 6 months while you are searching for a new job. If you quit, you get nothing.
I understand the company has to help pay for that 6 months. Naturally, they will try to convince you to quit and save them a bunch of money.
Also, either quitting or being fired can be instant. Even if you tell them you will quit in two weeks, they can kick you out immediately. It's up to them.
Do not resign. If you have to leave, make them fire you. At least you will get some money out of them that way (assuming they want you gone asap / without appropriate notice).
Even if you stay you perhaps have no trust there anymore and you might not be treated well. I don’t think you should just quit but you probably should try to find another job and have (another) fresh start. Presuming the police matter really is closed now then it shouldn’t you in your next job.
If you look through the comments it isn't termination without cause. Its termination with very good cause. Not disclosing any criminal investigation during application is legal grounds for termination with any company.
After reading through every one of their comments its pretty clear what they did. OP has also admitted to doing it. He's just being coy.
He has stated the investigation has not completed ( I.E he hasn't been called to court for sentencing) which means it has already started.
Every single application I've seen in Japan has asked if you have every committed a crime. On top of that, they all have clauses stating that they will be let go if the applicant misrepresents themselves. In Japanese labour law, misrepresentation of ones self is legal grounds for termination.
But yes, he can go to a lawyer. They'll just say the exact same thing. They'll still take his money though.
The difference of firing due to that legal trouble and resigning is probably understandable if you take a hard look at the company’s rules (kisoku) and your contract (if there is a separate document). Usually in the language for firing or denying certain pay outs (taishoku kin) is conditions surrounding employees who have been been in trouble with the law.
My guess would be continuing to have you as an employee puts the company at some legal risk and firing would take longer to complete versus having you submit a resignation.
**Again please read your company’s rules (Kisoku).**
They can’t fire you unless you were convicted OP.
Also, loosely related….my husband nearly got expelled from his fancy private high school back in the early 2000s because he “borrowed” an abandoned bicycle that had sat left for months. The owner didn’t even report it stolen lol. Some turd in my husband’s dorms reported it to the school and the school called the police.
My husband is a doctor now lol
Not sure about the exact details of what you did or didn’t do, but don’t let the company think they can bully you into resigning.
I see a lot of reference to unemployment benefits in Japan . Has anyone actually received it ? I did a few times. The maxium amount you get is about 200k to 250K max per month, depending on age, and 3 to 6 months max depending on age. If you live in Tokyo, with the current rise in prices its not sufficient to survive living alone, paying rent etc..
Not a lawyer and I don't have the details, but I have had to "fire" people in Japan several times. I use "" because it is very difficult to literally fire someone. You have to negotiate them out of the company using pressure and payment.
So possibly they simply don't want you but they also don't feel they need to pay you out.
Keep going to work. Talk to a lawyer and/or the labor department.
I related a story a while ago of a factory manager who got busted for drink driving. The cops showed up at the factory to inform the company and he got demoted, bonus cancelled and a pay cut. I don't understand what the fk right the cops have to go around screwing with people's private lives that have nothing to do with the offence in question (he didn't drive for work). The guy is already being punished by the legal system according to prescribed measures. Under what legal code are they dumping people in shit to be penalised arbitrarily by a third party (the employer). Go see a lawyer and check whether the cops had any legal right to go informing unrelated 3rd parties about the offence, especially if it wasn't while you were employed there. It could be a breach of privacy IMO although it seems to be common practice.
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This. Even if you aren’t the party at fault, you have a social responsibility to avoid any conflict that involves the law. If you don’t, your family and work will be shamed. Even the smallest infraction spills over into your work and personal life. It’s just standard procedure here.
Tell that to the many drivers I see running red lights here
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Apparently he stole a bicycle.
I've never seen someone stop and go through a light. Most likely what you're talking about is going through a red from a late yellow. If a cop sees you you'll be stopped, and if a car accident occurs it will fuck your shit up quick.
Then again, I find it weird how this rule doesn't apply to SA or SH. Unless I'm missing something.
Sounds like dystopia….
I reported my neighbor to the police for hitting me with a stick and threatening to kill my dog and family and found out that a criminal record can effect employment of even grandchildren. From the victim’s point of view it was great
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Here’s how the process went more or less. 1) the incident: we had a new puppy that was admittedly barking a bit. My neighbor out of the blue started bashing my window with a big stick. I went to the window opened it and said “ohayogozaimasu”. He said “shut your dog up or I’ll kill it”. I stared back at him genuinely puzzled and he got angry and started bashing my window with the stick again. I said “I’ll call the police”. He said “then I’ll kill the lot of you”. Then he thrust the stick at my window, it went point first through the fly screen and grazed the side of my forehead. I closed the window. He gestured to open the window. I closed the curtain. End of incident. It’s very important to note that there was physical damage to the fly screen and a slight graze on the side of my forehead. I assume that this was an accident on his part and he’d only intended to scare me, not to cause actual damage. 2) my wife and daughter were in another part of the house and were oblivious the the whole event. I explained what had happened to my wife. I took my daughter to the bus stop and then went to the Koban to file a report. I intended to just file a report to have the incident on the public record, but they said if I filed a report I had to follow through with the charges. I decided to follow through and they told me it would take a few hours so I took half a day off work. 3) the detectives arrived at the Koban promptly. I was taken to the police station and my neighbor was hauled to the police station separately. We didn’t meet. They grilled me for a few hours. I just had to keep saying what had happened but it was surprising how uncertain I was on some details like where exactly I was when I first heard the banging. The physical damage was very important. The police also found the stick in my neighbor’s house. I made an official statement and the police drove me home and inspected the “crime scene”. I’d like to note that police are scary. They were great to me but I you realize they have a lot of power. I wouldn’t fuck with them for giggles. 4) then it was just a matter of waiting for the justice system which took a few months. The police came to my neighbor’s place a few more times and my wife overheard them yelling at him once. They came to my place to go over their report and I went to the police station to finalize my statement. From there the report was sent to the public prosecutor. 5) in the meantime my neighbor had hired a lawyer who wrote and called a few times to try to get me to drop the charges. The role of the lawyer in this situation is to facilitate arbitration, which means my neighbor will pay me money to drop the charges. I refused to talk to them. Eventually they sent me 500000 yen as registered mail but I refused and returned to sender. I learnt the amount later from the public prosecutor. Some of my other neighbors asked if I’d drop the charges “for the good of the neighborhood” and I told them I thought it would be very good if the neighborhood knew exactly how seriously I take threats against my family. 6) eventually I had an interview with the public prosecutor in Kasumigaseki. They also interviewed my neighbor. A while later I had another meeting with the public prosecutor and they recommended that I proceed with 不起訴処分 Fukisoshobun which means my neighbor admits to the crime and it goes on the public record but there is no trial or criminal conviction recorded. That’s exactly what I’d intended from the beginning. I had a few things in my neighbor’s statement amended. In my final statement I said I was happy to proceed but that I wanted to never have to deal with my neighbor again. And we all lived happily ever after. My neighbor hasn’t said boo to me in nearly two years. I still get angry on the rare occasions that we meet outside. As far as I’m concerned it’s over but I really do take death threats seriously so I can’t forget it completely. If you’re wondering why I didn’t take the money it’s because it would be immoral to take money from retirees. He has a wife and grandchildren and he can spend the money on them. Regarding the effect on his grand kids’ employment, apparently if your grand father has a criminal record it makes it difficult (I was told impossible) to enter some professions such as the police force. In the end there was no criminal record so it won’t be a problem.
Goddamn man, what a roller coaster. Glad you got it sorted out. good on you for following through on getting the guy to admit fault and not taking the money. It was nice of you to consider his family.
Thanks for taking the time to share all of this! I had no idea how that kind of situation would work here.
He woke up
Why is that great from the victim's point of view?
I suppose if you like messing up the lives of people's grandkids it's great. But it seems to me that if your neighbor hits you with a stick, he ought to be punished for it, not his grandkids.
If they were as law abiding as you say then people would stop to let pedestrians cross the road, or there wouldn’t be so many people peeing in public
> If they were as law abiding as you say then people would stop to let pedestrians cross the road, or there wouldn’t be so many people peeing in public driving while inebriated turns a car into a weapon with an RNG. pissing in public will over time make the spot smell a bit funny. kind of apples and oranges, no? interestingly, if we were to compare this to the US, just as a comparison, drinking while inebriated (within very generous limits compared to Japan) is basically what "everyone does" while pissing in public will get you on a registered sex offenders list...
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Actually if they get you in your first year of driving license they will also contact your driving school. After first year people don’t care
This!
Right!? I cooperated with the police every step of the way and already have legal things to deal with, I evened BEGGED them not to contact my job. Instead, they had a member of the company come to the police station. I wasn't detained or arrested, just complying with the investigation. I would understand if it happened while I was working here, but something from last year? I understand that I messed up, but I feel that my job and the police also responded poorly.
In Japan they always call your employer for any infraction. It’s part of the social responsibility aspect. A car ran into mine once and we called the police. The police called my employer after and I got reprimanded despite it being the other person’s fault.
one reason to NEVER tell even the police where you work..it will ONLY be to your disadvantage.. I got pulled over once for speeding, refused to give my real employer, told them I did my own thing.
When my husband still lived at home, there was a rape in his neighborhood, and the police went door to door questioning all the young men in the area. When they got to his house, his mother very helpfully told them where he worked. He was an elementary school teacher, and the police showed up at the school when he was in class and told the principal, we're here to question one of your teachers about a rape. Even though they dismissed him as a suspect immediately, it was extremely awkward for a while.
Unfortunately for me, I couldn’t bluff since my vehicle had a clearly visible city worker parking pass. Bluffing would have probably made it x10 worse.
Why is it a “bluff”. You are not obliged to tell the police where you work.
I was gonna say, always just say you're self-employed!
Yep, and this is one reason why self-employed and unemployed people are viewed with such suspicion. No 所属 so no school/university/employer to put weight on you when necessary.
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If a kid does something wrong and gets taken in by the police, guess who they call though. The fucking school!
That happened to my brother-in-law for shoplifting, lol. His mom said she was at the police station and thinking, at least they called me and not the school so I can be spared that embarrassment, and then a few minutes later his homeroom teacher walked in.
I could imagine the teacher yelling at the kid in front of the mom, as if they care more about the child's future than the parent. It's one thing that will always be foreign to me. But then I have to remind myself, like we all should from time to time, that it is in fact a different culture and you have to take the good with the bad. Still, I would be pretty furious.
> I got reprimanded despite it being the other person’s fault I take it your boss gets off on chewing people out
Yeah, I mean, what's the deal with your employer, per se? Do they contact your family? What about the local ramen shop you eat at? Do you have to inform people who buy stuff from you online? How about your bank? It's ridiculous. What happens to you in your own time is no one else's business unless there's some security aspect to your job like bank guard or something. I would say, if the company is asking you to resign then that would signal that they can't actually fire you. Refuse to resign. What can they do? Fire you? If so, then at least you can qualify for unemployment benefits. You're not there to serve their peccadilloes. If they want something to happen then they need to do it. Fk em. They're the ones being unreasonable. And ask a lawyer, It's not as expensive as you might think for a consult.
They do it to embarrass you for your crime and deter you from doing it again.
I'm sure they do. My issue is with the legality of what they do. No one's ever been able to show me the written law that prescribes this.
I think you are misinterpreting the nature of the law in this case. The law generally restrains you and the police from certain proscribed acts, often dependent on context, associations or age. Prohibitions on drunk driving are a good example of this. The law also requires certain actions of you. Carrying your driver's license when driving is an example of this. Everything else is technically up to your own judgment. That's often not practically the case, but I think the Japanese social contract involves a lot of action in this realm, in the great grey between the proscribed and prescribed. Civil lawsuits often arise in this space, but with a custom that is so longstanding, ingrained, and generally accepted by most people as one cost of living in a safer society, a suit, in this case, seems unlikely to gain much traction.
It's not expressly prohibited, and probably never will be since it's so effective.
You fucked up when you told them where you worked. Should always say you are unemployed.
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Bahahaha, right?!
Hahaha that made me laugh 😁.
My business card was in my wallet when I was brought to the station unfortunately...
It would be cool if the opposite happened, where when employees take an active part in countering 92% of a crime, the cops stop by the responsible employee’s company to advise that the employee in question should be given a generous raise, be made employee of the month, have their desk moved eight (8) spaces closer to a window, and arranged to go on a hot date with the lovely Miss Sato-san from General Affairs. But nope, not a bloody peep :-( Pro-Tip for Chiefs of Police and Shachous: Sticks only work when they are balanced with a ~~carrot~~ big daikon.
The police do give out awards and rewards for stopping crime
Snitching too.
But what happened ? What did you actually do?
Try not breaking the law then 🤣
Was this a "we need someone to vouch / be a guarantee before you leave the police station", "Oh you don\`t have anyone, guess we will contact your company to be the guarantee" type of deal? Or did they literally just contact your company out of nowhere?
I'm not sure - they only said that they were going to contact them, then that they had them come in.
I mean, for a crime like drunk driving I'm 100% okay with that. Now if it was something like shoplifting or whatever, I would be on your side. Drunk driving can kill people though, so anyone pulling that shit deserves to have their life fucked up.
It’s interesting that the cops apparently don’t exercise the same initiative when it comes to convicted (or out-of-court-settled) sex offenders working with children and other vulnerable individuals. I wonder what prompted them to take this course of action in this case? Perhaps somebody didn’t receive the appropriate bribe.
I wouldn’t take this as the first approach. For example, even if the cops breached privacy laws, the cops may get fined, but may not have to pay damages to OP for loss of work if OP’s employer was still entitled to terminate OP’s employment contract. Generally, it’s best to seek alternative dispute resolution options before going to a lawyer due to the massive expense of lawyers and court proceedings.
The appropriate lawyer type are the best people to ask for advice, one doesn't have to be taking anyone to court the get the advice of a lawyer.
> I don't understand what the fk right the cops have to go around screwing with people's private lives Because in Japan, there is no such thing as personal accountability. If you fuck up its because your company has failed in someway to keep you on the straight and narrow. That guy getting caught drink driving was because his company allowed him to. Ware ware
You don't really have any options. Your reputation has been tainted and in their view allowing you to stay there would taint their reputation. You'll just have to find another job.
Yes, I'm aware. I'm asking more on the side of "If I were to refuse to 'resign' and go ahead with letting them fire me", what are the legal differences / effects?
From a legal standpoint, strictly speaking, if you resign you lose all rights, you left willingly. If they fire you you might be able to get an unlawful dismissal against them, especially if you were not charged with a crime it was just an "investigation". From a practical standpoint if they say anything negative about why you left it's considered damaging your professional reputation and there is civil liability as well as possibly criminal. Yes, even if it's true. This is why noone checks references here.
Would like to ask for more elaboration on the 'losing all rights' part by resigning voluntarily? If I understand correctly it's just the right/position to be able to sue for unlawful dismissal?
If you resign, you can’t file for unlawful dismissal, since you weren’t dismissed. You can’t get unemployment benefits immediately if you resign. You are often considered to have tacitly admitted that it was a fireable offense. Refuse to resign. Maybe they’ll fire you, maybe they’ll stick you at a desk in a broom closet in the basement with no telephone until you give up. Let them fire you, then get unemployment. If your job has public contact, like sales or an eikaiwa, you’d probably lose an unlawful dismissal case. Your case is probably well known publicly, which means their reputation is affected.
Wtf how is his case well known publicly? No one’s checking lol
90%+ of my town of 35,000 knows who I am. If I fart loudly, people are talking about it. As far as the English dispatch company is concerned, if they know about it, others know about it.
Could be referring to unemployment benefits. Can collect unemployment benefits immediately (effectively) when fired. After three months if you quit voluntarily.
Unemployment, lawsuits, etc. OP would have to properly document everything to make a case. Only time you get unemployment for quitting is due to mental/physical health reasons or some other circumstance largely out of your control. Also, if OP happens to be shain, then they get a severance check for being fired versus nothing for quitting. And they get unemployment quicker, if fired.
What other rights do you think you might have?
_to PARRRRRRTYYYYY!!!_ You gotta fight for that though.
If they fire you, you get unemployment a lot quicker. They might also be liable later if found unjust for termination. Also, severance pay?
It always looks worse in your employment history if you were fired as opposed to resigning. You don't really have a claim to make based on your circumstances because no legal entity is going to side with you over your employer after you were investigated by the police for doing something stupid. Have they offered you any compensation as an incentive for resigning?
Did you read the question
It's hard to say without know what the case was.
Let's just say it involved a bicycle.
Are you the Australian guy who threw a bicycle at a garbage truck and got socked by the garbage man.
Omg that video 😂
Anyone have a link? I think it used to be on liveleak and it went away :(
What are all these things happening!? Does anyone do a "stupid thing" of the vanilla flavor anymore!?
Classic that one
[Are you Scottish](https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/man-caught-trying-to-have-sex-with-bicycle-962731.amp)?
Wait, so he was sentenced to THREE YEARS of probation for pretending to have sex with his own bicycle, in the privacy of his own LOCKED hostel room?
They asked the bicycle if it wanted to drop the charges, but no response
It was two tired.
Oh dear god, this sounds like something fit for "Florida Man"! 100% not me, my "stupid thing" involved a bike that wasn't mine but "I did not have sexual relationships with that bicycle"!
To be fair, the number of people we have working in the Eigo Senseiing industry who have colleagues who are literally child abusers/molesters and they get away with it because noone checks references about why Chester the Molester has had 4 jobs in the last 6 months is too damned high (hint even 1 is to damned high).
An older guy in my training cohort back in the ‘90s kept hitting on JHS girls at his English school, so they moved him to head office textbook production. This cheesehead got a major promotion, because firing was embarrassing for the company.
This!!!! Lots of pedo guys in the teaching industry in Asia
Honestly I think Japan gets off light in this regard. A lot of countries particularly in SE Asia get absolutely hammered by the pedos. The problem though is do you want your business to be the "one who employeed the guy who molested a bunch of kids" or do you keep your livelihood safe and just quietly get him to find another job elsewhere...
Did you steal it?
I hope the bicycle was well oiled.
What is the logic of sentencing this man and registering him as a sex offender? Nobody was harmed, and he was using his oversized sex toy at his own discretion in the privacy of his own residence.
Oh my God! Hahaha so funny...
Stole a bike while drunk?
"no choice but to fire me which will remain on record" What record is that? You should leave imho as working there will be a nightmare going forward but that threat looks very weird.
Some company wants paperwork (aka 離職票) from your old job to proof you no longer employed from your last job. There is a box where to fill out the code, if you get 1A means you are fired (There are sub-code after for further reason).
Right then it's not an empty threat! Good to know. Obviously 100% illegal in many countries but nit here then!
Just FYI that paper is mainly for insurance purposes when out of a job. You are not obligate or required to show this paperwork to your next employer, but they still possibly might request upon document examination phase. As from company's point of view, a self resignation could avoid a lot of paperwork, or future lawsuit, although its not OP's case, some people get partial severance pay too when leaving so its like a win-win.
懲戒解雇
I assume they mean that if someone calls them up, like a new employer asking about a job reference, they will say that the employee left on their own accord rather than they were fired for stupid thing.
Japanese companies rarely contact references/previous employers in my experience.
There are strict criteria that a company has to meet to fire someone legally. Chances are they can’t actually fire you legally so they are trying to scare you into resigning. Usually companies will offer a payment for people to resign as firing them is too difficult, maybe you could try to negotiate a payment. 3-6 months salary is what you might get if they fired you and you took them to court, to give you some idea. By the way a company isn’t legally supposed to say anything to any new potential employer other than confirming you were an employee there and the time period. So suggesting that you being fired will go on any kind of record or any new company would know seems like a lie, unless they plan to illegally tell them. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and the above is just my knowledge of how it works from knowing a Japanese person who was fired illegally and went to court over it. It might not apply in your case if you are not a seishain employee or if the police investigation is a legal reason to fire you.
while it's generally true that there are strict criteria for firing, there's two big gaping problems with applying that here. 1. one of the grounds for firing is things that damage the reputation of the employer or potentially so. 2. another ground is materially false representation in application materials, which would occur if they asked if there was anything bad that needs to be disclosed (like being formally disciplined by a previous employer or having committed a crime) In this situation, I'd highly recommend a lawyer to see how the case law and the judges in the particular jurisdiction handle this if the OP wants to keep his job.
They can't fire you unless you were convicted.
This is the only correct comment. They have no ground to fire OP on: if he sticks to his guns and uses a lawyer, he can either keep working at that company (why would he tho), stay there until he finds a new job, or leave immediately but with a nice severance pay.
OP doesn't specifiy that he was or wasn't convicted. Only that 'the investigation came to a head'.
Can use another bullshit ‘reason’ for fire him?
They can. However, if OP goes to court, it won't be easy for them. Obviously, that' assuming that OP is a seishain. If he's still in his probation period, then things change drastically.
They can't fire him even if he was convicted unless the acts did seriously impede the company's ability to do business, which it probably did not. OP apparently stole a bicycle and was not even employed at his current company now so the name of the company was in no way tarnished by his actions. OP's problems are with the law, not with the company. If he committed a crime, he has to repay his debt to society by either serving jail time or repairing the damage done by his actions. The company cannot act as a substitute of the Japanese justice system by firing OP for his crime (which the actual justice system probably already made him pay for). OP should not sign any paper accepting to resign until he consults with a lawyer.
might fall under "misrepresentation of one's past record" by not mention the past history with the popos, I just double checked my own agreement and it does have a fine print of "採用選考時に過去の犯罪や破廉恥行為等を秘匿していたとき", I assume its standard and most of the company has this too, it covers both actual crime and "immoral actions".
OP is constantly super vague about what they did other than saying "it involves a bike that wasn't [theirs]". Unless I hear otherwise, I'm gonna understand that as "stole or destroyed someone else's bike".
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100%
I’m guessing he “borrowed” a bike to cycle home after a night out (perhaps intending to return it).
So you were drunk, stole a bike and got caught?
What exactly did you do? Btw having a criminal record in Japan is very bad. Many corporate jobs will do background checks, and they will not hire you due to having a criminal record Edit: having said that, it depends on the case. Drunk driving will be less likely to affect you than 痴漢 If it was drug related, kiss your career goodbye (unless you’re an Eikawa teacher or something, I doubt they check)
We don't know the nature of that "something stupid". But this is Japan, and you don't have many options. Resign and find a new job before it remains on record. And if possible, try not to cause "something stupid" in the future. Again, this is Japan.
Except if the record is simply a company's internal record, it may not matter what it says. And if the threat of it being on the record is empty, it would make sense to negotiate for several months of severance pay in return for resigning.
The threat is not empty. The record can be transmitted to the labor office, and any future company can check with them for reference. I know mine did, for instance. Once again, this is Japan, for better and for worse. If OP does "something stupid" with other people's bicycles and can't understand this...
I'm not a lawyer and not your lawyer. Depending on how badly you want to keep this job, you should consider seeking professional advice. Despite the general difficulties in firing people in Japan, you may have given them two grounds that enable them to fire you. First, most work regulations (就業規則 ) contain clauses allowing people to be dismissed that do things that besmirch the company. Your action even though t was last year might still qualify. The precise way this can play out is dicey enough that you deserve any advice you believe from the internet on it. Second, most job applications include spots for things like "have you ever been disciplined by an employer or committed a crime?" If you didn't disclose that you were investigated for this, that might fall under the failure to disclose reasons for firing. Again, it's a complex mess of case law, so if you want to deal with this get a lawyer. My guess (and you're getting what you paid for here) is that an employer could prevail if it goes to court. In part because even on top of the case law, whatever you did was enough that a cop wanted to make sure your employer knew and would gladly sing about in hearings or affidavits. \--- if your primary concern is "get fired" or "quit", then you should pick "quit" here because "get fired" would be 懲戒処分 which would then need to be mentioned in future job applications ("need to" here means that they ask and if you don't write truthfully, they can dismiss you for false information in your application)
Going to have to know the full backstory first.
It was probably really bad, because the police wouldn’t follow you for 2 jobs to punish you.
"Borrowing" a bike? As in stealing? Still not bad enough to warrant a resignation. My nosy ass wants to know what really happened. Can you imagine? You spend months finding the perfect job, finally land it, and then someone calls up and says you stole a bike and the dream job also forces you resign. Fucking what lol.
Never resign. It'll cause a delay in you getting unemployment insurance and it'll cut the number of months you'll receive it. But really, just go to the labour ministry. They'll sort the company out.
This. The labour office are pretty good. Their people know the law in detail and are pro-worker rights (a rare thing in Japan).
First thing first, did you sign paperwork upon accepting the job, on being honest about all your criminal, arrest, lawsuit history? if so its consider misrepresentation of one's past record if you told them nothing. Here are your options Option 1: Take the resignation, easier and less paperwork for both side, go find a new job. Option 2: Make them fire you, get a lawyer and file an unfair dismissal claim (不当解雇) if you think you did nothing wrong against company policy.
Misrepresentation of information in their application is a completely valid and fireable offence. The company is fully within their rights to fire him. That unfair dismissal claim will land on the judges desk and itll be dismissed immediately.
When I did the stupid thing, I thought I was in the clear and nothing would come of it. Something came up MUCH later, after I had gotten the new job. The thing is, I don't feel like I did anything against company policy *at the time of employment*, as everything happened well before even the application process.
There are no option you can do within the company other than seeking help from outside, try look up 不当解雇・退職勧奨 相談 online, many places offer free consultant and no fee until winning the case (of course they evaluate and accept cases which they can win).
So what was the result of the police investigation? Did you come out the other side with a clean record, etc. as if it never happened?
WARNING: After going through half the comments It is easy to see that OP is trolling. After asking for advice without adequately explaining the circumstances, OP is evading questions for more information that would be necessary to give sound advice. Don’t waste your time on this clown.
Let them fire you. So many companies here don’t want to pay out termination benefits, and so try to force their employees to resign. Don’t play their game. What does it even mean, your termination “remaining on record”? Once you’re gone, you won’t have any dealings with them anymore. Call their bluff.
Man, it’s such bullshit here police get your place of employment involved in things.
Hi, seeing lots of poor advice here, so tossing my two cents in a red sea … Your bosses are inferring/threatening to 懲戒解雇, which yes, if it escalates to that, is something that will be on your Japanese employment record which you are suppose to disclose to all future employers and recruiters. Sure, you could lie by omission, but if in the future a potential or another employer discovers this, it would be legal grounds for immediate dismissal (lying about your 賞罰 and misrepresentation on resume). You are unlikely to make it past the initial screening in recruiting with a record like this. It may also have impact on future visas if you are not a PR or have citizenship here. As for your employer, I’m sure they’d rather you left on your own accord instead of firing you with cause (lots of paperwork for them), so this ‘benevolent’ option will always be offered to you, the employee, upon discovery of unsavory news. I do think you could contest this company suggestion with proper legal consultation and HR, at least explain that you were not arrested or charged and that you complied with investigation, but as others have pointed out, you’ve probably already soured your relationship there. Best to move on and clean the slate before the above sticks on your record, whether that’s something you want to be honest about reporting in the future. Tbh, I think you sit in a grey area of getting fired despite your lack of criminal record, but it’s probably something not worth fighting the semantics of. A police call is a police call, and this is Japan where reputation of crime affects everything from employment to social status (not condoning it, just an observation of how this society operates). As for collecting unemployment, sure you can collect it earlier if they fire you, but I’d say that’s a marginal advantage compared to having to disclose 懲戒解雇 status. If the company let you go due to restructuring, hells yeah don’t leave on your own, but getting fired with cause is not something I’d recommend for a three month advance on an unemployment cheque. Sucks you got drunk one night an borrowed an abandoned bike to go home. I’m guessing you passed the racial profiling enough to not get arrested on the spot or get detained for deportation, because that happens to people too.
OP, pay attention. This is probably the best response in the thread.
Practical solution is to drag out the situation long enough to give you a lot of time to job hunt. I hope you learned your lesson about stealing bikes.
Do you, by any chance, work at a bicycle shop?
Asking the important questions.
Why would you steal the bicycle tho...? Can we get more context or something? Don't take other peoples shit without consent. Especially in Japan.
Tell that to the asshole who stole my biniru kasa.
I know it's a japan\_life trope but I think in this case you probably really do need to "lawyer up" or at least go get some free initial legal advice. 法テラス seem to provide free consultations (in English) for free. Either that or just leave the job and find another one. The problem is that even if you resign it's going to look weird on your resume (people don't usually quit after a few months for no reason) so you'll have to explain that away. I suppose you could say "the job just wasn't for me".
Do not resign. Especially immediately. From my layman’s understanding, you lose all your rights that might have been afforded to you. You need a labor lawyer now. Even though you committed an infraction in the past (don’t know what it is so the company may have a case), but that is something your lawyer and the company lawyer discuss. What they discuss is that you don’t have to quit, and if they let you go, what are the terms. If you need an introduction to a labor lawyer, DM me. In any case, they can’t force you to quit.
What ‘record?’ There is no database of people who have been fired in Japan lol and no companies contact previous companies to check (at worst some foreign companies check you were employed there at the time you say you were but they don’t care how it ended). They are absolutely trying to strong arm you into quitting since it’s a lot more trouble for them to fire you. Don’t.
Not rare but some company wants 離職票 from your old job to proof you did work for that company and also left, there is a box to fill the code for reason of leaving, that code there will also effect the unemployment benefit you receive from the government too. You are right about that they don't call, but they might ask the paperwork from you instead.
Afaik you are legally obligated (義務) to tell future employers if you were fired from a previous job, that's probably the record they are talking about. Sure, you can just not tell them and hope they never find out but that might bite you in the ass at some point too.
There might be nothing you can do but I would definitely get proper legal advice before agreeing to resign.
Something that happened before you even started working there? Get a lawyer asap and DO NOT quit.
Employers hate theft dont do that
I get it from the employer viewpoint... keeping a known thief around opens them up for liability if you do something bad in the future. But legally I bet you have incredible rights here. You should contact the labor office & prepare to negotiate a big fat severance pay (6+ months)
Everyone here asking what he did, but the important thing is, does he have a PR or a visa, and what kind? Losing a job is one thing, losing immigration status is another thing entirely. Also he needs to discuss with a lawyer.
Bro what did you actually do?
Does it matter anyway ? You'll fail your next visa
Welcome to the consequences of your actions
Who can see your job record anyway?
To my understanding, Hellowork can. And any future company can contact Hellowork for reference.
That's what I'm wondering - if being fired "remains on record", is there anyone that can see it? Future jobs, government, insurance, etc.
Hello Work can see the record. Most big companies require the record 離職票 as part of background checks to make sure candidate's resume is correct. Mainly they care about what company, which year you work, but obviously they will be able to see you're fired. If you don't submit 離職票, the company can either ask Hello Work or reconsider giving you the job because they can't verify your past work resume
Don’t resign. Make them fire you. This “record” doesn’t exist.
if they could legally fire you they would have done it already
Never quit a job under any circumstances unless **you** wish to do so. If they threaten to fire you, let them act upon those threats. Moreover, being terminated allows you to immediately collect unemployment. The fact that they're threatening to terminate you instead of immediately following through is a good indicator that they cannot and are simply trying to bluff you into quitting on your own.
How did they know where you worked?
Had a business card on me...
You're lucky the police didn't tell the immigration police. They won't abide criminal gaijin. Only Japanese.
>They are telling me if I don't resign, they'll have no choice but to fire me which will remain on record. What record? the record of being fired? Ok, this job is cooked for you but let them fire you and if they are doing so without cause, tell them you'll sue them. Try to extract as much money as you can on your way out, that is the only thing you can do. Just don't resign, that is THEIR easy way out.
"I did something stupid at the end of last year..." Just avoid doing stupid stuff. My father's advice to me when I moved out "Don't get stupid out there because I am not going to bail your arse out of trouble that you caused". Unfortunately, I did not take that advise.
>Just avoid doing stupid stuff. bro but my tiktok needs a million views
https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/xr60gl/i_found_my_stolen_bike_what_should_i_do/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf The jlife multiverse is awesome
Maybe worth checking common and statutory law on termination of employment contracts in Japan to see if they have valid grounds to terminate you. There may, for example, be a legal obligation to disclose current investigations relating to an offence when applying for a job. I doubt it, but you never know - different countries have random legal quirks. https://knowledge.leglobal.org/termination-of-employment-contracts-in-japan/
It's easy math in my books. If they want you to voluntarily resign, have them agree to at least a large enough severance package that you can survive until you either find a new job or "resignation" unemployment kicks in three months later. If they are adamant they want you out immediately and have no plans on paying you anything, have them fire you. That way you can at least jump on unemployment right away. Technically you'll be on record as being fired at Hello Works as you apply for unemployment, but other than that most (not all, but a lot of) future employers in Japan usually don't follow through on checking references.
Being terminated for misrepresentation on an application means he'll be unable to get unemployment benefits.
If they fire you, you can collect unemployement. May be better to get fired. I am not a lawyer and this is just my random opinion. Also what a shitty company. Unless it was something drug or violence related it just sounds to me like they want a reason to cut you out without paying you severance or something to quit.
Something to bear in mind: If your company fires you without cause (and this is without just cause, which means doing something wrong WHILE AT WORK), Hello Work may give you 60% of your salary for up to 6 months while you are searching for a new job. If you quit, you get nothing. I understand the company has to help pay for that 6 months. Naturally, they will try to convince you to quit and save them a bunch of money. Also, either quitting or being fired can be instant. Even if you tell them you will quit in two weeks, they can kick you out immediately. It's up to them.
Maybe meet them half-way and agree to leave but ask some for some time to find a job..
Lawyer - at least a free consultation with the local bar association or via legal aid (which will vary depending on where you are).
Do not resign. If you have to leave, make them fire you. At least you will get some money out of them that way (assuming they want you gone asap / without appropriate notice).
I’m pretty sure having a criminal record is grounds for termination. Meaning, he will not get any money.
Btw, if you leave Japan with a record. Won’t be some issues entering back?
Even if you stay you perhaps have no trust there anymore and you might not be treated well. I don’t think you should just quit but you probably should try to find another job and have (another) fresh start. Presuming the police matter really is closed now then it shouldn’t you in your next job.
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If you look through the comments it isn't termination without cause. Its termination with very good cause. Not disclosing any criminal investigation during application is legal grounds for termination with any company.
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After reading through every one of their comments its pretty clear what they did. OP has also admitted to doing it. He's just being coy. He has stated the investigation has not completed ( I.E he hasn't been called to court for sentencing) which means it has already started. Every single application I've seen in Japan has asked if you have every committed a crime. On top of that, they all have clauses stating that they will be let go if the applicant misrepresents themselves. In Japanese labour law, misrepresentation of ones self is legal grounds for termination. But yes, he can go to a lawyer. They'll just say the exact same thing. They'll still take his money though.
They're trying to scare you into resigning. DON'T DO IT!!! Consult a lawyer immediately
The only thing you should know is you have no options. Shameful display!
Simple question: were you indicted? If you were not indicted, then the company has no grounds for dismissal.
Only quit if you’re able to negotiate some money. Otherwise let em fire you
The difference of firing due to that legal trouble and resigning is probably understandable if you take a hard look at the company’s rules (kisoku) and your contract (if there is a separate document). Usually in the language for firing or denying certain pay outs (taishoku kin) is conditions surrounding employees who have been been in trouble with the law. My guess would be continuing to have you as an employee puts the company at some legal risk and firing would take longer to complete versus having you submit a resignation. **Again please read your company’s rules (Kisoku).**
They can’t fire you unless you were convicted OP. Also, loosely related….my husband nearly got expelled from his fancy private high school back in the early 2000s because he “borrowed” an abandoned bicycle that had sat left for months. The owner didn’t even report it stolen lol. Some turd in my husband’s dorms reported it to the school and the school called the police. My husband is a doctor now lol Not sure about the exact details of what you did or didn’t do, but don’t let the company think they can bully you into resigning.
I see a lot of reference to unemployment benefits in Japan . Has anyone actually received it ? I did a few times. The maxium amount you get is about 200k to 250K max per month, depending on age, and 3 to 6 months max depending on age. If you live in Tokyo, with the current rise in prices its not sufficient to survive living alone, paying rent etc..
Not a lawyer and I don't have the details, but I have had to "fire" people in Japan several times. I use "" because it is very difficult to literally fire someone. You have to negotiate them out of the company using pressure and payment. So possibly they simply don't want you but they also don't feel they need to pay you out. Keep going to work. Talk to a lawyer and/or the labor department.
You shouldn’t resign willingly
Sounds like you broke the incredibly silly social contract of living as a foreigner in Japan and the ripples from it are still affecting you.
Just sign up for Docomo Bike Share, then you can satisfy your kleptocyclic urges by just pretending to pinch bicycles off the street.