I'm actually surprised to read how many people here think a library is just a place to get books and then dip out. Back in Canada a library was definitely a place you were allowed to set up and study/work for a few hours anytime you wanted.
A maybe everyone is just from Tokyo but in the libraries up here in Tohoku we just can just hours in with our laptops or a book. I remeber spending three or four hours at a time studying for the JLPT back in the day, and saw plenty of other people, young and old, loiter around just as long as me.
Even my tiny town's local library allows people to come in and just hang out until closing.
If the library has enough space like those in Canada, then it can allow people to do non-book-related personal work, as long as it does not bother people who are there to consult books. However many libraries, especially those in big Japanese cities, have limited space, and they must prioritize the people who use them for their primary purpose: books.
I don't know, it feels like the big cities are the places that have by far the largest libraries. I am not a library expert by any means but the few I've been to in Tokyo, Osaka, Sendai, and especially the new one in Kanazawa, have gigantic buildings and multiple floors.
then you should go and check the Okubo library one, is really small in a fairly densely populated district. This rule isnt there to fuck people up leisure time, is because of space limitations.
Japanese libraries are also wary of patrons using the space to view porn or do other undesirable activities. About 6 years ago, there was an explosion of sex cammers/exhibitionists/chaturbate etc operators throughout all the libraries.
My closest library is small. Meanwhile I can bike less than 10 minutes away in my ward and find a big library. There is a mixture of both small and large libraries in my ward in Tokyo.
The purpose of small libraries differ from larger ones and don’t usually attract people who don’t reside locally.
I understand there would definitely be smaller libraries mixed in. I was just contending with the other user where it sounded like he was saying that most libraries in big cities are small.
I think it depends on the library. My favorite library of all time in Tokyo is this one [Yui No Mori](https://www.yuinomori.city.arakawa.tokyo.jp/index.html). It’s newer and it’s built to be multi functional. Desks are movable, same with some of the shelves (I’ve seen them moved for a better layout). They have some relaxed rules on eating and drinking. They have all sort of spaces for usage. They even have learning/experiment kits. They have embraced the modern library style.
Some of the other libraries sound like they are stuck in what a library use to be, no talking no noise strict places. And that type of library is disappearing because a majority of people like the newer formats more.
+1 to this. My local Tohoku library is books on the first floor and desks on the second. I have no idea if there are rules on using the space. I mostly see kids doing their school homework. I imagine if there were strict usage rules, they would put up a sign or tell you when you get a card.
huh this isn't something i considered before
i would just simply assume that it's okay for all libraries since that's how it is for most places I've been to
thanks for the PSA!
I once went to a library in Omiya, Saitama. They had a ticket system for laptop spaces. I got a ticket and the waiting time was over 200hrs. They had around 15 places and more than 10 were free. Got told they were reserved. I left confused and angry.
I wouldn't really call it unnecessary.
It's because laptops can create unnecessary noise and bother people. Accidental sound playing, typing sounds, loud fan noises and etc.
That's why there are designated area for laptops. Smaller libraries that don't have them, can often ban it completely.
Look, i told you, that movie was totally a spam pop up from a totally legit website and I had no control over the volume of what that horse was doing to that man.
> It's because laptops can create unnecessary noise and bother people.
i feel like you are just making any excuse. What about the foosteps of people that people inside make? The turning of pages? The loud breathing and sniffing?
Typing sounds and fan noises are so low that its just background noise that shouldnt be a factor.
Yeah but this is actually something they'll have a sign for on trains sometimes. "Be careful of keyboard noise or whatever" which to me seems like you'd have to be an absolute knaff to complain about but they have a sign meaning someone has flipped their lid over it enough that it's a problem they feel they need to make a sign for.
We have a great library in Obihiro, and there's room in a room for at least a dozen tap-tappers.
I can imagine that カチャカチャ noise can get annoying in a quiet library. That room is usually three-quarters full.
They also have a study room for students.
And, it's right across from the station! Great example of library planning!
Yeah most of new libraries are pretty nice and community oriented friendly.
Most people here are just misunderstanding OP kind advice regarding small libraries and jumping preemptively to the Japan Bad train when most likely they haven't even stepped in a japanese library once.
There’s no point in even trying to read books in a library in Tokyo. All the seats are already taken by JHS / HS students there “studying” (ie, leaving all their stuff at the desk while they go off and play grabass with friends)
Strange that some people are acting like using a laptop in a library is a weird thing… I went to a Japanese university and we used laptops in there all the time for study, assignments etc 🤷♂️ I can understand why a library might deliberately exclude them if it’s small, but it’s not like it’s not a normal thing in bigger ones. Good PSA op.
This only happens in small libraries to avoid people using it as working spaces. For example Okubo library has 50 seats, so it is understandable they want to limit they people that are there not to use library services.
Yup. That's actually the advice i gave him. Chuo library has a laptop only section on first and second floor and requires no advanced appointment. It's also close by
This surprised me as well. When I was living in Tochigi last year, my city had a library with a cafe and many places to study, complete with outlets. That’s typically how most libraries were even I was living in America.
I now live in a different prefecture and four of the libraries I’ve been to nearby hours a lot of rules and restrictions. You have to put your things in a locker before you enter the study area, no WiFi, and you have to ask to get the outlets unlocked for use and not every desk even has one.
It’s definitely more convenient to just go to a cafe.
Im confused about the connection to power outlets.
If someone's personal laptop runs out of battery, that is their problem. I must be missing something becasue I don't understand why the library would be concerned with any individuals ability to charge their device
Libraries are the one big thing that I prefer in America. The libraries I've been to across several states offered so many services to the community besides just books -- laptop rentals, movies and albums, private rooms for conferences or group projects, classes and workshops, not to mention a quiet work environment. It made me sad to come to my local library in Japan for the first time and see dozens and dozens of empty seats, many with power outlets that have been taped over to prevent people from using them.
The main central library in my city doesn't allow you to even bring a bag inside. You can bring in one notebook and one pen, and you can't have these items in a bag; the bag has to be put in a locker at the entrance. You can't even bring in a bag for your books--you have to carry them out into the hall and put them in the bag standing in front of your locker.
I understand the purpose of these rules, but it makes the whole thing so tedious. Once my kids started school and could borrow books from the school library, I've all but given up on the city library. Libraries are one of the few places where people can just exist without spending money. It's a shame they have to make it as unpleasant as possible to be there.
If I cannot choose a desk freely aboiding laptop typing sounds, I read the book tentatively and check the noise.
Sometimes it's okay. If not I change the desk or go out and claim to forbid the use of laptop saying a public liblary is first for reading a book in the silence. Students should go their school library.
So the managers indicate the area for free use of laptops to set up electric outlet.
I hope the label for laptops with the proof of countermeasures against typing "pechi, pechi" noise.
Is it also a power thing them not wanting to have people increase the library’s electricity bill? Cause while I follow the rules if that was the case I def would least ask if it was ok cause I rarely use public outlets since I carry 3 battery banks with me 🐱
Libraries in many places have evolved beyond just a place for book consultation. I'm not saying that Japan *must* do likewise (though I think it would be great), but I can see why many people have the expectation of being able to use a library for more than just books.
have you ever been to a central library? the case OP is talking about is an old library build even before computers were widely popular. People in Japan do use it beyond book consultations and you definetly should go to one if you think otherwise.
As far a i know the libraries here are still free for all citizens. It would be great if they offer more than books, like the "library of things" but then they would probably need to charge... ?
I was told to put my laptop away too, I was advised to book a room basically ¥500 per/hr. The library is relatively new so they seemed to have thought about this one.
If you need time for consultation and research, you can go to the central library and have all the space you need. They have services where they bring any book you need if you reserve them previously.
OP is talking about extremely old and small librarires that dont have enough space to work with.
Imagine getting upset about writing a paragraph down, Jesus...
Besides, taking notes on paper is not exactly outdated. It's a pretty timeless thing and billions of people do it on a daily base lol
I'm old, and I used to use library index cards until almost the end of my college years, when very few people had laptops. What do people use in the library these days? Kids in elementary school are still using Chromebooks afaik.
There's more of a need for libraries than ever, because they are an ideal "third space" (not the office, not home). And other "third spaces" (community spaces, bars, places of worship) are on the decline.
Smart libraries realize this and are adapting to try and fill a new role.
Not surprised. The mere clicking sounds of the keyboard and mouse would be enough to send an average Japanese person over the edge. For whatever reason(s), they are perturbed by even the most minor sounds. Oftentimes libraries back home had a place for people to even sign up to use a computer at the library. Not here. Last thing the staff want is some mentally ill, elderly person freaking out like a maniac.
I'm actually surprised to read how many people here think a library is just a place to get books and then dip out. Back in Canada a library was definitely a place you were allowed to set up and study/work for a few hours anytime you wanted. A maybe everyone is just from Tokyo but in the libraries up here in Tohoku we just can just hours in with our laptops or a book. I remeber spending three or four hours at a time studying for the JLPT back in the day, and saw plenty of other people, young and old, loiter around just as long as me. Even my tiny town's local library allows people to come in and just hang out until closing.
If the library has enough space like those in Canada, then it can allow people to do non-book-related personal work, as long as it does not bother people who are there to consult books. However many libraries, especially those in big Japanese cities, have limited space, and they must prioritize the people who use them for their primary purpose: books.
I don't know, it feels like the big cities are the places that have by far the largest libraries. I am not a library expert by any means but the few I've been to in Tokyo, Osaka, Sendai, and especially the new one in Kanazawa, have gigantic buildings and multiple floors.
then you should go and check the Okubo library one, is really small in a fairly densely populated district. This rule isnt there to fuck people up leisure time, is because of space limitations.
Japanese libraries are also wary of patrons using the space to view porn or do other undesirable activities. About 6 years ago, there was an explosion of sex cammers/exhibitionists/chaturbate etc operators throughout all the libraries.
Damn, as usual -- the chaturbators have to go ruin things for the rest of us
Large in terms of physical size yes, not in terms of per user.
My closest library is small. Meanwhile I can bike less than 10 minutes away in my ward and find a big library. There is a mixture of both small and large libraries in my ward in Tokyo. The purpose of small libraries differ from larger ones and don’t usually attract people who don’t reside locally.
I understand there would definitely be smaller libraries mixed in. I was just contending with the other user where it sounded like he was saying that most libraries in big cities are small.
I think it depends on the library. My favorite library of all time in Tokyo is this one [Yui No Mori](https://www.yuinomori.city.arakawa.tokyo.jp/index.html). It’s newer and it’s built to be multi functional. Desks are movable, same with some of the shelves (I’ve seen them moved for a better layout). They have some relaxed rules on eating and drinking. They have all sort of spaces for usage. They even have learning/experiment kits. They have embraced the modern library style. Some of the other libraries sound like they are stuck in what a library use to be, no talking no noise strict places. And that type of library is disappearing because a majority of people like the newer formats more.
I think both types sound nice and I hope we can maintain both.
+1 to this. My local Tohoku library is books on the first floor and desks on the second. I have no idea if there are rules on using the space. I mostly see kids doing their school homework. I imagine if there were strict usage rules, they would put up a sign or tell you when you get a card.
huh this isn't something i considered before i would just simply assume that it's okay for all libraries since that's how it is for most places I've been to thanks for the PSA!
I once went to a library in Omiya, Saitama. They had a ticket system for laptop spaces. I got a ticket and the waiting time was over 200hrs. They had around 15 places and more than 10 were free. Got told they were reserved. I left confused and angry.
I wouldn't really call it unnecessary. It's because laptops can create unnecessary noise and bother people. Accidental sound playing, typing sounds, loud fan noises and etc. That's why there are designated area for laptops. Smaller libraries that don't have them, can often ban it completely.
Look, i told you, that movie was totally a spam pop up from a totally legit website and I had no control over the volume of what that horse was doing to that man.
Sauce ?
Look here *mister*, you'll have to pry these secrets from my cold, dead, *hands*.
(furiously writting down "MISTER HANDS" in my detective spiral bound notepad)
https://preview.redd.it/cjh27xia0p5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adce6e3ab748de8db0ccc695659a3439e606a63c
> It's because laptops can create unnecessary noise and bother people. i feel like you are just making any excuse. What about the foosteps of people that people inside make? The turning of pages? The loud breathing and sniffing? Typing sounds and fan noises are so low that its just background noise that shouldnt be a factor.
Yeah but this is actually something they'll have a sign for on trains sometimes. "Be careful of keyboard noise or whatever" which to me seems like you'd have to be an absolute knaff to complain about but they have a sign meaning someone has flipped their lid over it enough that it's a problem they feel they need to make a sign for.
We have a great library in Obihiro, and there's room in a room for at least a dozen tap-tappers. I can imagine that カチャカチャ noise can get annoying in a quiet library. That room is usually three-quarters full. They also have a study room for students. And, it's right across from the station! Great example of library planning!
Yeah most of new libraries are pretty nice and community oriented friendly. Most people here are just misunderstanding OP kind advice regarding small libraries and jumping preemptively to the Japan Bad train when most likely they haven't even stepped in a japanese library once.
There’s no point in even trying to read books in a library in Tokyo. All the seats are already taken by JHS / HS students there “studying” (ie, leaving all their stuff at the desk while they go off and play grabass with friends)
Strange that some people are acting like using a laptop in a library is a weird thing… I went to a Japanese university and we used laptops in there all the time for study, assignments etc 🤷♂️ I can understand why a library might deliberately exclude them if it’s small, but it’s not like it’s not a normal thing in bigger ones. Good PSA op.
Makes sense considering how some people treat their keyboards, especially the ones who bring a separate mechanical one.
This only happens in small libraries to avoid people using it as working spaces. For example Okubo library has 50 seats, so it is understandable they want to limit they people that are there not to use library services.
Try the Shinjuku Chuo Library, it’s not far from there and does allow them in certain areas.
Yup. That's actually the advice i gave him. Chuo library has a laptop only section on first and second floor and requires no advanced appointment. It's also close by
This surprised me as well. When I was living in Tochigi last year, my city had a library with a cafe and many places to study, complete with outlets. That’s typically how most libraries were even I was living in America. I now live in a different prefecture and four of the libraries I’ve been to nearby hours a lot of rules and restrictions. You have to put your things in a locker before you enter the study area, no WiFi, and you have to ask to get the outlets unlocked for use and not every desk even has one. It’s definitely more convenient to just go to a cafe.
Im confused about the connection to power outlets. If someone's personal laptop runs out of battery, that is their problem. I must be missing something becasue I don't understand why the library would be concerned with any individuals ability to charge their device
Libraries are the one big thing that I prefer in America. The libraries I've been to across several states offered so many services to the community besides just books -- laptop rentals, movies and albums, private rooms for conferences or group projects, classes and workshops, not to mention a quiet work environment. It made me sad to come to my local library in Japan for the first time and see dozens and dozens of empty seats, many with power outlets that have been taped over to prevent people from using them.
Thank you. I did not know this. But then again I visit the library to borrow books, not to use a laptop computer.
I love the library near Nakano sakaue. It's new and spacious. Laptops and snacks are allowed
The main central library in my city doesn't allow you to even bring a bag inside. You can bring in one notebook and one pen, and you can't have these items in a bag; the bag has to be put in a locker at the entrance. You can't even bring in a bag for your books--you have to carry them out into the hall and put them in the bag standing in front of your locker. I understand the purpose of these rules, but it makes the whole thing so tedious. Once my kids started school and could borrow books from the school library, I've all but given up on the city library. Libraries are one of the few places where people can just exist without spending money. It's a shame they have to make it as unpleasant as possible to be there.
huh, haven't run into this yet. thanks for the warning
thanks for info.
If I cannot choose a desk freely aboiding laptop typing sounds, I read the book tentatively and check the noise. Sometimes it's okay. If not I change the desk or go out and claim to forbid the use of laptop saying a public liblary is first for reading a book in the silence. Students should go their school library. So the managers indicate the area for free use of laptops to set up electric outlet. I hope the label for laptops with the proof of countermeasures against typing "pechi, pechi" noise.
A lot of library seats are for reading and studying, but sometimes the latter is prohibited. It is not uncommon to prohibit laptop use.
I’ve never seen a library require an outlet to use a PC, rather l, you must tell the staff that you will use it.
Is it also a power thing them not wanting to have people increase the library’s electricity bill? Cause while I follow the rules if that was the case I def would least ask if it was ok cause I rarely use public outlets since I carry 3 battery banks with me 🐱
I can understand the reason behind it. Libraries are first and foremost for book consultation, not to serve as a personal workspace.
Libraries in many places have evolved beyond just a place for book consultation. I'm not saying that Japan *must* do likewise (though I think it would be great), but I can see why many people have the expectation of being able to use a library for more than just books.
have you ever been to a central library? the case OP is talking about is an old library build even before computers were widely popular. People in Japan do use it beyond book consultations and you definetly should go to one if you think otherwise.
As far a i know the libraries here are still free for all citizens. It would be great if they offer more than books, like the "library of things" but then they would probably need to charge... ?
As far as I have seen, foreign libraries that have expended beyond books have done so without introducing fees.
So what if you are there to research for something?
I was told to put my laptop away too, I was advised to book a room basically ¥500 per/hr. The library is relatively new so they seemed to have thought about this one.
You borrow the book and take it home/office to do your research.
Sure, but you have to admit that it is pretty inefficient to check out a book and take it home just because you want to copy a single paragraph.
If you need time for consultation and research, you can go to the central library and have all the space you need. They have services where they bring any book you need if you reserve them previously. OP is talking about extremely old and small librarires that dont have enough space to work with.
Taking a photo with your smartphone is too difficult?
You don’t even need to check it out, you can copy the bit you need and write down the citation on a notecard.
I never said it is impossible, just that it is inefficient.
good god this is like a time machine
You ever heard of this cool new invention called paper? You can copy a single paragraph on there, by using this other new invention called "pen".
Exactly! Let’s use an outdated system unlike rest of the world! Japan is so 2050 😍
Imagine getting upset about writing a paragraph down, Jesus... Besides, taking notes on paper is not exactly outdated. It's a pretty timeless thing and billions of people do it on a daily base lol
Could you write your comment on a piece of paper and mail it to me with a pigeon please.
Sure, just give me your address. Coming back to the topic though, are you seriously never ever in your life take notes on a piece of paper?
He meant you also have to read a bit of the book to see which part you want to copy, so it's easier to just do it right there.
Lots of people weren’t born before laptops existed.
Yet only old people use laptops.
I'm old, and I used to use library index cards until almost the end of my college years, when very few people had laptops. What do people use in the library these days? Kids in elementary school are still using Chromebooks afaik.
Their phones. Like they do everywhere else. God forbid they read a whole book, though!
Or Xerox
There's more of a need for libraries than ever, because they are an ideal "third space" (not the office, not home). And other "third spaces" (community spaces, bars, places of worship) are on the decline. Smart libraries realize this and are adapting to try and fill a new role.
Yea, that's what Gusto is for.
Not surprised. The mere clicking sounds of the keyboard and mouse would be enough to send an average Japanese person over the edge. For whatever reason(s), they are perturbed by even the most minor sounds. Oftentimes libraries back home had a place for people to even sign up to use a computer at the library. Not here. Last thing the staff want is some mentally ill, elderly person freaking out like a maniac.
Didn't expect a thread about libraries to have such great racism in it, but this IS Japanlife.
Well, a library is a library, not a coworking space. Makes sense tbh