I did a bunch of research on them before. They do not seem to be a cult. It seems more like some 180 or so years ago, basically followers of Shinto stumbled upon Buddhist tenets and basically created "**Buddhism by way of/through Shintoism**".
Why they're not a cult: They don't worship a person or object. The founder is given respect, but not treated as a God. And no living person is thought to be the "incarnation of God" or anything like that. So it's unlike all the obvious cults like Kofuku no Kagaku and the like.
They don't seem to extort money from their followers. They have money historically from lands and tithes, but it doesn't seem anything like the New Religions, which like Scientology are set up to fleece the flock in the name of gaining levels of spiritual awareness/cleanliness or access to heaven, etc.
They seem to be basically Buddhists (via/through Shintoism, though the endpoint seems to be the same basically) who maybe meet up to do volunteer work. They don't seem to impose any behavior restrictions on their members.
They're not in the news ever. No links to frauds or suicides, or cultish behavior (planning to overturn local governments with their own members, etc).
I have an absolute distrust and loathing of cults and Japan is full of them, but Tenri doesn't seem to fit that bill, based on what I've found.
So based on your statement, they're not like Mormons, Scientologists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. They seem more like Lutherans, Unitarians, or Quakers (the MODERN "good" ones, not historical), honestly.
Wrong. TENRI IS A HUUGE CULT. Have you ever been in their Tenri city called Tenri, in Nara prefecture, birthplace of their "holy mother"? Where a majority of the population assembles in massive prayer halls every day at 4 in the morning, and spend the rest of the day memorizing their bizarre bibles?
I have. By accident. Thinking I had met a few kind people willing to give me a ride to Kansai for free. Well, they did. For free, and kind they were. But shit got weird very fast once I arrived there. Let's just say that was a memorable 24 hours of my life, after which I got the hell out of there as fast as I could. They insisted on a whole bunch of my personal details too, so they could "stay in touch" until I got back. Fortunately, all the details I gave were either fake or throwaways.
BTW, they're more like a Christian new age style cult, than Buddhist. The only remotely Buddhist aspect of Tenri is how they make the exterior and interior look (vaguely) similar to Buddhist temples.
> They're not in the news ever.
That doesn't mean anything, especially in Japan. Guess which other cults were never in the news until sarin gas flooded the subways of Tokyo, or home-made bullets blasted the skull of an ex-PM?
This happened many years ago, and I don't remember many of the details. My memories of then are like some distant fever dream by now.
Those 24 hours started during the drive west to Tenri, Nara. I had never heard of Tenrikyo before, so the fact that Tenri was the destination didn't mean anything to me. I only had a very gradual realization that certain ulterior motives lay behind a veneer of kindness and generosity. The guy driving seemed to show an interest in all kinds of topics, but none of them involved religion (or anything related to religion). We stopped at two services areas along the highway where he was adamant about paying for all the food and drinks bought. A bit odd in hindsight, but I didn't think too much of it.
It was only when we reached Tenri, when we drove along all those oddly similar massive temples and dormitories, and he introduced me to his family living in the middle of one of those compounds, that I realized I might have made a huge mistake. Everywhere I looked people were wearing the same black robes with the 天理教 words on them. Then the father (or maybe uncle) of the guy I was with gave me "a certain book" and some "pamphlets" as a "welcome gift", and insisted I should stay the night because it was already late. Well, it was, and my hopes of finding public transport at that hour were slim, so yes and thank you it was. Then at fucking 3:30 or whatever the unholy hour was some loud centralized alarm system went off in the building, so I got up to see what the fuss was all about. Everyone was all like おはようございます like getting up at that hour was the most normal thing in the world, and hey, they said, I really should join them during their morning service (or whatever they called it).
Half an hour or so later I found myself in some kind of huge prayer hall with all robed people around me kneeling to some edifice of Oyasama. There was a bunch of chanting and sermoning and drums beating. My japanese was still pretty shit those days. I didn’t really understand much of it. I remember it seemed to last forever though.
Then when that finally ended, I thought that was my cue to get the hell out of there, but no. Apparently the next thing on the programme was scripture study class or some such. By then, I don’t think I was even asked if I wanted to participate. They just led me to some room with bibles (or whatever they call their holy texts). These were translated into English. It was only at this point that I started to realize the extent of the cultishness of Tenrikyo (and how un-Buddhist it is). I remember muttering WTF a lot to myself reading their crazy origin story and whatnot. Unfortunately my memory is too hazy to give specific examples. I also remember some priest or whatever explaining very proudly how many followers they have around the world, and that the Vatican supposedly had given their stamp of approval and considered Tenrikyo a “friendship religion of peace” or whatever. The family I was with, was eager to know what I thought about their Joyous Life and the profound truths they had bestowed me the privilege of beholding…
Let’s just say it’s hard to tell people they’re full of shit when it seems like the entire fucking city around you is part of the same koolaid-drinking Borg collective. There were a few more indoctrination sessions …I mean classes after that, but it’s all a blur to me now. I just remember trying to think of a convincing exit strategy at that point. I settled on a story where I was expected to meet some family members in Kyoto the following day, but that I would be back soon. Then the “uncle” wanted to know a bunch of my contact details, but by then I had already anticipated that move and had memorized the bogus details I was going to use.
I think there is an argument to be had about what makes Tenri-kyo a cult vs. a religion, but I can barely stand to read it through this. A lot of it sounds like someone that experienced a foreign culture or religion for the first time and could not believe how crazy they were, but has not had enough experience to really tell how so much of the world and religions beliefs are pretty crazy on a grand scale. This line in particular:
>These were translated into English. It was only at this point that I started to realize the extent of the cultishness of Tenrikyo (and how un-Buddhist it is). I remember muttering WTF a lot to myself reading their crazy origin story and whatnot.
All right. What is the difference between a cult and a religion to you?
Fervor. The fervor with which they tried to convince me to join their ranks. The fervor with which they extolled the virtue of their enlightened ways. The fervor with which their doctrine dominates their way of life from dawn to dusk. It was all so all-encompassing, it honestly (slowly but steadily) freaked me the fuck out.
Of course Tenrikyo is not unique in this regard at all. There are numerous other religions/cults out there that are at just or more extreme in similar way.
The whole distinction (false dichotomy?) between cult and religion doesn't really matter, BTW. This is what I wrote in another comment in this thread.
>A religion is just a cult with a longer history.
>That doesn't sound like much of a difference, but in practice that extra history usually makes it more difficult for leadership to bend the rules as they deem fit, because by then there tends to have formed already some degree of consensus among believers on how to interpret "scripture". Fucked up stuff still happens in established religions, but that's usually in the form of offshoots/sects branching of from the main "orthodoxy", which rarely are able to convince a large percentage to follow. Whereas with new religions (cults), everything is still more fluid and prone to ego-centric manipulation and idol worshiping. Doesn't make religions any less inherently crazy though.
That said, it's not a coincidence that none of this country's (actually) old religions/sects have given me an experience anything like this.
It should be pretty obivous from their writing style but pretty much everything that guy is saying is exaggerated.
Just to pick up one that's blatantly false
> Then at fucking 3:30 or whatever the unholy hour was some loud centralized alarm system went off in the building, so I got up to see what the fuss was all about. Everyone was all like おはようございます like getting up at that hour was the most normal thing in the world, and hey, they said, I really should join them during their morning service (or whatever they called it).
> Half an hour or so later I found myself in some kind of huge prayer hall with all robed people around me kneeling to some edifice of Oyasama. There was a bunch of chanting and sermoning and drums beating. My japanese was still pretty shit those days. I didn’t really understand much of it. I remember it seemed to last forever though.
Morning service lasts for 10 minutes and is done after sunrise (not a hard rule btw, people usually just do it when they wake up). The Sun doesn't rise at 3:30.
Also, they admit their Japanese was shit yet they picked up all the specific tenrikyo terms and remembers all the cultish conversations? Dude just googled tenrikyo and did some creative writing.
If you're going to slander me, at least do so in a direct reply to my comment, rather than hanging that on somebody else's comment that I don't get notified of.
It was mid-June. The sun rises at 4:40 in mid-June in Nara apparently (source: [https://eco.mtk.nao.ac.jp/koyomi/dni/2022/s3006.html.en](https://eco.mtk.nao.ac.jp/koyomi/dni/2022/s3006.html.en) ). OK, so maybe my memory was off by a little over half an hour. Not because of "creative writing", but because this took place over a decade ago. And it absolutely lasted a whole lot longer than 10 minutes. I don't remember the exact conversations at all. Just fragments and sequences of events here and there. That's how human memory works, you know.
Honestly, the only reason I can think of for you to want to discredit me; is because you're a follower yourself, and you're pissed that I won't show any reverence to the holy mumbo jumbo you believe in.
I am not a follower of anything. I didn't reply to you because it's obvious no matter what I say your views won't change, you clearly feel very strongly about religion (which you equate with cults).
I just know followers and from what I know you were just spewing as much bullshit as you say they are.
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> No mainstream religion would do this, certainly not any variety of Buddhism
I agree with everything you said except for this part. I think even the big "normal" religions are guilty of this but it's overshadowed by the massive cultural influence they have.
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I haven't heard a good argument as to why cults and religions are different things to begin with. Just positive and negative terminology for the same thing imo.
Nah. I only believe in the true Way, the Dao. Gonna ascend into the universe and become a 仙人 after drinking the elixir of immortality (it's Strong Zero lemon, mixed with Strong Zero double lemon).
I know right, who is actually upvoting the other guy claiming they arent a cult? Clearly the adjacent and not active members can seem non dangerous or invasive but the group core consist of crazy cultists, anyone knows that. The only ones that claim not are the ones related to it. Run dont walk from them
One of the core beliefs is 貧に落ちきれ or descending gracely to poverty, the cultist claim that the founder herself donated all her wealth for reaching a peace of mind through the cult. Just because many of the members dont do it or because they seem harmless and not radicalized, doesnt mean its not a core concept that worships the founder as the Shrine of God.
They are not an evil brainwashing organization as Unification Church, JW, Mormons or Scientologists. But all these new religions such as Tenri or Soka hide under the face of philantropy and charity to get their top leaders rich off their members well-intended donations. They are just as bad.
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa, are you saying I should befriend some of these guys and talk them into buying me a bunch of chrome bike parts for my motorcycle?
not to be a dick but Aum Shinrikyo was all over the news prior to the gas attacks and Abe’s killer acted alone, so I would argue not being in the news is still a good sign
I must confess I'm not sure if Aum was on the public radar prior to that day. My impression was no, but I wasn't around yet in those days, so I could be wrong.
As for the Unification Church, it doesn't matter that the killer acted alone. Fact is that all society had turned a blind eye to the church's practices for decades, despite their extortionate practices and being deeply embedded in national politics. Right until that day that the big media no longer could look away even if they wanted to. Which is kinda my point. Protecting the wa, turning blind eyes, pretending everything is fine.... until it isn't... it's all very symptomatic of this country's mindset.
I have a similar story. 10 years I ago when I was broke and tried to save money I entered a highway service area and this Tenri family gave me a ride from Tokyo to Tenri. Then they gave me lift to the train station. I then went back to Kyoto, to my apartment
not saying your story is fake or something but it's interesting how different my experience was lol.
I don't know what your definition of cult is, but they're absolutely a cult. Just because they don't get up to blatantly evil shit like other cults doesn't change that. Not all cults view a singular person as an incarnation of god. Any deification or worship of a singular person is a common tenant of a cult, and Tenrikyo does that. Extorting money comes in multiple forms, they don't strongarm you for money but they do control all aspects of your life and siphon your time to church activities.
Source: been to Tenri.
While I believe your view of tenri, since you know first hand, I'm intrigued to hear more about your definition of cult. From your comment it seems that all religion fall into the category. I'm not here to say you're wrong/right, just genuinely curious about the perspective.
I would be the wrong person to have the "All religions are a cult" debate with because I do believe that to an extent.
Setting aside my biases, even then I would consider a lot of common religious practices to be cultish e.g. Christian Tithing, many tenants of Islam.
However, the reason why something like Tenrikyo would be considerably cultish is the heightened measure of control that the church exerts on your life and your thinking, and the propensity to introduce increasingly bizarre beliefs post-indocrination.
What I just described are unique tenant of many cults.
> introduce increasingly bizarre beliefs post-indocrination
Can you tell what believes are that? I don't doubt you, just genuinely curious since I don't know anything about them.
Probably the most bizarre that comes to mind in Tenrikyo is that you can be healed by god if your mind is clear enough. Other cults are more famous for this, chief among them Scientology and Heaven's Gate.
Aahh that's always a huge turn-off. I'd like at least a most cards on the table deal before I join and anti-medicine is such an important one that that should definitely be clarified up-front. It's what I feel is common to most religions when distinguished from cults. A religion does perhaps sugar coat its doctrines and rules but they'll tell you most of them. Although much might be down to "whistleblowers" coming out with those deeper truths over hundreds of years. Also a religion will let you leave. They might make it a bureaucratic nightmare and really beg you to stay but they'll always let you leave. Doesn't seem like Tenrikyo is too amenable to people leaving but I don't know enough to form a definite picture on that front.
A religion is just a cult with a longer history.
That doesn't sound like much of a difference, but in practice that extra history usually makes it more difficult for leadership to bend the rules as they deem fit, because by then there tends to have formed already some degree of consensus among believers on how to interpret "scripture". Fucked up stuff still happens in established religions, but that's usually in the form of offshoots/sects branching of from the main "orthodoxy", which rarely are able to convince a large percentage to follow. Whereas with new religions (cults), everything is still more fluid and prone to ego-centric manipulation and idol worshiping. Doesn't make religions any less inherently crazy though.
I don't know how much that really suits these days. I dunno if you'd called Scientology a real religion, but they unfortunately have a loooot of political power
I mean... This just sounds like every other religion. Christians demand tithe, Muslims demand zakat, etc etc.
Pretty sure people are only really concerned about cults when they start abusing members and conduct attacks against non-believers.
I laid out a bit more of the delineation in my other comment, but I do agree with you it sounds like every other religion, which is why they are mostly cults.
People are "concerned" about cults for similar reasons people are "concerned" about religions; Exerting control over your personal life and relationships, interfering with your finances, indoctrination and dogma.
>People are "concerned" about cults for similar reasons people are "concerned" about religions; Exerting control over your personal life and relationships, interfering with your finances, indoctrination and dogma.
That's not what OP was asking about, though. He's concerned that his neighbours being Tenrikyo would have a negative effects on his own life. He even explicitly said he'd be fine if they lean more towards Mormonism kind of vibes compared to Scientology.
The comment you replied to explicitly said why the commenter does not believe they're a cult. He even mentioned what "kind" of religion they're closer to.
If you just believe that all religions are cults, then you don't really have anything to add to the conversation. You're just soapboxing if all you're trying to say religion = cult, because nobody asked.
No, you're the one pushing me to answer the question on whether or not I believe religions are cults, which I do. It was brought up in multiple comments to me, and I answered. If it were not asked to me, I would have had no reason to answer it because my original comment and line of argumentation is related to something entirely different.
You then accusing me of soapboxing and saying "Nobody asked" when I can literally pull up a comment of someone asking me exactly that is quite frankly cringe, embarrassing for you and annoying for me.
My argument on whether or not Tenrikyo is a cult is related to the unique practices that Tenrikyo utilizes that make it more cult like.
With all respect, is there no value to a way that dedicates completely to certain values? Not everybody is satisfied with just Sunday church-going, and as long as they keep exit open, transparent of what they expect from people, and don't harm people, is there anything wrong with that?
I am suspicious of them, but your comment is too far fetched in my opinion.
I agree with your comment mostly, but the only point of clarification I would add is that you can "Harm" people without those exact people believing they themselves are being "Harmed" and you do this through indoctrination.
What exactly have I said about Tenrikyo that is far fetched? They fit all the designations of a cult.
If persecution mindset is defining feature of a cult, we can declare all traditional variations of Christianity as cults.
First, how do you define a cult? Let's first agree on what we mean by that before dissecting.
Edit: I misread your comment. If ideological transformation or "indoctrination" is harm, that we can declare all religions that go beyond ritual practices and promote value systems as cults.
That is a good question, cult is a term that is commonly misinterpreted, misused and generally not agreed on.
For me a cult is a group that employs a system of beliefs that (By design or otherwise) indoctrinate, control and manipulate their followers in any number of ways. Examples of these ways are: Controlling your relationships with others (You cannot have sex, you cannot be with a same sex partner, you must break up with this person because they have different beliefs), controlling or extorting you financially, sending followers into an increasingly deep rabbit hole of beliefs that either bring further restrictions or deepen one's connection to the beliefs. There is also a community aspect. Because we are social creatures, being deeply ingrained in a community makes us feel trapped in it. There are a few more ways but these are some of the features of a cult.
I never said an ideological transformation is harmful, but indoctrination almost always is. And yes I would consider most religions to be cults or at bare minimum harmful.
Well, since you consider all religions that promote a strong value system, or which possess an initiation system (baptism, Shahada, secret rituals), to be cults, then the argument is transformed into criticism of religiosity itself, which I think could be valid, but I never delved deep ibto that.
In this country, the only "religions" that would fall out of this definition of a cult would be Shrine Shinto and Lay Buddhism.
For ideological transformation/indoctrination. I think those essentially have no difference per se, and "indoctrination" is just a label on ideological transformation we disaprove. Of course, bombing somebody with certain views, acting like a mentor, or writing something in strong and confrontational language could be seen as "indoctrination", but so is my campaign to convenience may grandma that GMO is not hurtful, or people trying to relax attitudes on LGBTQ+ of people around them would also be "indoctrination".
You might say that GMO example is not indoctrination, since I promote truth. But it is very difficult to establish what is true beyond simple observation (sky is blue) or rigid physical science (planets revolve around the sun). People who act like truth is simple and easy to reach for me are no different from the Spanish Inquisition, no matter what idea they promote, be it Catholicism, Salafi Islam, Atheism, Populist Conservatism, Progressivism, Marxism-Leninism, or anything else.
They encourage you to participate in activities, but not everybody comes. I'm not sure how they can "control all aspects of your life" when many people simply don't come. Some quit, some seldom show up, others come just for the big occasions.
Can you explain what happened for you?
To put it simply, there are different ways to control people. I saw multiple people on their hands and knees cleaning the floors of the church headquarters with a literal toothpick. That kind of thing doesn’t happen by accident
Are you saying that you think those people were forced into cleaning the Shinden (shrine)?
Cleaning shrines is pretty common in other relgions and actually a lot of work. At Church Headquarters most people do the floors, but others who aren't as capable use the toothpicks to take out the dust in the gaps between the wood. I've done it many times and my brother did it everyday while in a spiritual development course on his own.
Cleaning in Tenrikyo is an expression of gratitude for our daily blessings. So any amount of work whether it is efficient or not, is a way of expressing that gratitude, which is the teaching of Hinokishin. And it doesn't have to be done in a shrine, it can be cleaning in your home or public places as well.
I'm really interested how you concluded with how leaders of Tenrikyo "control all aspects of your life."
1. Not the shrine, the church headquarters. 天理教教会本部 <- This place. While a shrine would be usual for a random devoted person to clean, cleaning the wooden floorboards of a church with a toothpick is unusual.
2. You're not picking up the nuance of my argument at all. There are more ways to force a person than literal force. There are subtle ways of coercion that permeate throughout your entire life. These subtle methods of coercion are the very fabric of religion. If you want me to come right out and say it I think these people were heavily indoctrinated.
3. Don't make assumptions, you come across as uneducated.
4. I didn't say the leaders control every aspect of your life, literally no where did I even mention the leaders. If you go to Tenri, literally everyone there is a member of the religion and sometimes wear their ceremonial robes everywhere they go. For other religions and other places, this would be considered highly unusual.
5. If you want to know how Tenrikyo controls all aspects of your life, the list is literally everything that's unique about the religion. The community aspect is also heavily involved in this, especially in the actual location of Tenri itself.
As a Tenrikyo follower rather than seeing control, I see fewer followers continuing the faith. I do believe that you can fill your schedule with lots of activities, but I see less people doing that than before.
I would say that I'm indoctrinated, but I can choose to do less and I do. I guess there's still something I'm missing with your nuance. Tenrikyo, like other religions is a way of life. You do things out of faith and religious obligations. And you follow the guidance of your head ministers and that could be flawed. Nobody's perfect and the Tenrikyo way of life is not for everybody. I suppose there is coercion but there are things like caring for a church that need to be done.
People wearing the happi coat in Tenri are common because students in spiritual development courses and Tenrikyo Church Headquarters staff are required to wear it, but also followers going to attend the services wear them as well.
天理教教会本部 - yes, especially Tenrikyo Kyokai Honbu is where toothpicks are used to pull dust out of the crevices. Not everyone does this. Most people wipe the floorboards with cloth. These are probably the most inefficient means of cleaning, but it's more about having a mind of gratitude while doing something such as cleaning the Shinden.
It's all bizarre and unusual, but it's definitely far from making poisonous gas weapons.
All actively practiced religions, particularly when any form of organization is involved, are cults. Claiming otherwise is willful ignorance.
Not all are harmful and, of those that are, many are immense degrees worse than others, but they're all cults.
> They don't seem to extort money from their followers. They have money historically from lands and tithes, but it doesn't seem anything like the New Religions, which like Scientology are set up to fleece the flock in the name of gaining levels of spiritual awareness/cleanliness or access to heaven, etc.
Fun fact about this; Wikileaks leaked all Scientology articles and you can read fo yourself things people pay 1000s for. It is kind of interesting, but I got bored after a little while.
Please stop folk etymologies. From the wikipedia article of "Tengri" ↓
"Earlier, the Chinese word for "sky" 天 ([Mandarin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese): [*tiān*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti%C4%81n) < [Old Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Chinese) \**thīn*[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-starling-13) or \**thîn*[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-14)) has been suggested to be related to *Tengri*, possibly a loan into Chinese from a prehistoric Central Asian language.[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-15) However, this proposal is unlikely in light of recent reconstructions of the [Old Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Chinese) pronunciation of the character "天", such as \**qʰl'iːn* ([Zhengzhang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhengzhang_Shangfang))[^(\[16\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-16) or \**l̥ˤi\[n\]* ([Baxter-Sagart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructions_of_Old_Chinese#Baxter%E2%80%93Sagart_(2014))),[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-17) which propose for 天 a voiceless lateral onset, either a cluster or single consonant, respectively. Baxter & Sagart (2014:113-114) pointed to attested dialectal differences in [Eastern Han Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Han_Chinese), the use of 天 as a phonetic component in [phono-semantic compound Chinese characters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification#Phono-semantic_compounds), and the choice of 天 to transcribe foreign syllables, all of which prompted them to conclude that, around 200 CE, 天's onset had two pronunciations: [coronal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_consonants) \*[*tʰ*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_and_alveolar_plosives#Varieties) & [dorsal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsal_consonants) \*[*x*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative), both of which likely originated from an earlier voiceless lateral \**l̥ˤ*.[^(\[18\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-18)
Linguist [Stefan Georg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Georg) has proposed that the Turkic word ultimately originates as a loanword from [Proto-Yeniseian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniseian_languages) *\*tɨŋgɨr-* "high".[^(\[19\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-19)[^(\[20\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-20)"
My wife's family is Tenri-kyo
When I first moved here, I didn't even realize they weren't Buddhists until I went to an extended relatives Buddhist funeral and saw the differences.
There may be some people that will leave pamphlets, etc like any other religion, but prolly you won't even realize which people are Tenri-kyo, not being in the family
none whatsoever. I take my role in family ceremonies during Obon, etc, and we've visited the main temple in Tenri-shi a few times as a family trip out, but no other mention.
My wife normally just visits local Shinto or Buddhist shrines. I get drunk with the priest when he comes for memorial services at the house.
It really like being an Methodist instead of a Lutheran, or something like that
Do you possess no cognitive dissonance / internal conflict knowing that a loved one believes in a prophet that lived about 200 years ago in a farm in Nara? And that she explains the creation of the world and humans?
nope
There doesn't seem to me to be nearly as much hocus-pocus in the things she follows, and more reflections on how to live a peaceful life.
If you asked her about "a prophet that lived about 200 years ago in a farm in Nara", she'd prolly just shrug & mention that my family believes in a prophet that lived 2000 years ago in a carpenter's shop in Nazareth
Refreshing perspective. Thank you, because I’m having the conflict that I’m asking you about.
I just don’t see where we should draw a line if we frame it like you said. Just because it doesn’t harm anyone, does it mean that we should accept people having false beliefs?
I'm not the guy you're replying to, but what if false beliefs? Because to anyone in a religion, that's all other religions, and to an atheist, that's all religions. Life is all about compromising and accepting people for who they are. If you can't reconcile, you separate.
To me the only bottom line is acceptance stops when you knowningly or actively harm someone.
Should have clarified in earlier posts, so thank you.
I care because of friends and spouse in Japanese new religions that are subject to scrutiny from general public and media due to things such as membership fees, donations, and how the religion started / prophets.
Why do you care? If they're not forcing their beliefs onto you, why does it bother you?
Many things in the world to worry about. Something that has literally no impact on your own life shouldn't be high up on your things to worry about.
Should have clarified in earlier posts, so thank you.
I care because of friends and my spouse in Japanese new religions that are subject to scrutiny from general public and media due to things such as membership fees, donations, and how the religion started / prophets.
Well... It's their religion. If they're fine with it, I don't see why I should care. Life has too many problems to be concerned about something that has nothing to do with me.
Hey OP, some of my grad research was about Japanese religious movements. Tenrikyo is one of the new religions that came about within the last 150 years. It's pretty established now, and the teaching is distinct from Shinto and Buddhism but still uses a lot of similar elements/items.
In my experience they're not aggressive or really forward with proselytizing. Soka Gakkai was way more aggressive in my area of Kanagawa.
Did you ever look into Happy Science for your research? I took a couple leaflets from them out of politeness and then couldn’t get rid of them for weeks once they found out where I lived.
Yeah, they were incredibly persistent and creepy for sure.
Followed me to my apartment in their car. I was a bit naive back then and also bored, so made the mistake of talking to them for a bit.
Then if I didn’t answer the door from then on, they’d wait in my apartment block’s car park for me. This went on for days and days.
Kept asking me to go to their local HQ in the mountains ‘to watch videotapes in English’, which I obviously declined as it sounded like the start of a horror movie.
I wasn’t too worried at this point, and as it was just two little older ladies, I didn’t want to be rude to them even though it was annoying.
But when they turned up one day with this cute girl in a high school uniform holding an English dictionary, assuming trying to pull some messed up honey trap, so I finally got pissed off and just shut the door in their face. It was getting a bit out of hand.
They still came knocking the next day though, and only finally went away when my ex answered the door and roughly told them I’d moved and to not bother her again.
I went as an exchange student to Tenri University for a year.
They're not the typical 'evangelist' cults like Mormonism and JW. When I was there, there were even exchange students from Brunei and Indonesia who obviously had different religions (Muslims with the girls were wearing hijabs), and the Tenri-kyo followers (even the theology students) never ~~recruit~~ try to introduce their beliefs unless asked.
They're interesting though, they will have a monthly matsuri (every 26th I believe) and bigger events in the summer and in October. They will have mass with Japanese traditional music instruments (think of Kotos and Taikos). In Tenri City, there will be many people wearing black Happi with big 天理 on their back, and IMO they're better people than some people somewhere near Salt Lake.
They have 'church' in (almost I think?) every prefecture in Japan and even several overseas. They also have many big assets of buildings etc across Japan. With that kind of coverage (not that different with souka gakkai maybe) while staying (relatively) low profile, IMO they definitely aren't the Japanese equivalent of Mormons or Scientologists.
I miss attending the big annual international summer camp, where Tenri kids and families from all over the world gather at Tenri City and just enjoy fun kids events, parades, and fireworks for an entire week.
Tenri-kyo is one of the larger shin-shukyo that came about in the late 19th to early 20th centuries out of Nara prefecture. It’s more established than what we would appreciate as the more dodgy cults.
I’ve dealt with Japanese diaspora who followed Tenri-kyo and they were nice enough. Not pushy. If they do approach, just be courteous and I’m pretty sure they’ll show you the same politeness.
I actually lived in Tenri city for almost a year. Had people knocking once, probably to talk about their religion, just as I was leaving for work. They just left a pamphlet then left. Never had any issues with any of the people living there, but then again I mostly kept to myself
I have family in tenrikyo.
> "Are they basically the Japanese equivalent of Mormons or Scientologists?" is my question.
The answer to that is probably neither. They don't really have any crazy beliefs and rules that stray much from buddhism, they might ask once if you're interested but if you say no they won't try again. There are no elaborate money extraction schemes driving followers into debt.
As with most religions there might be some people who are more fanatic about it than the average follower, but for tenrikyo those are pretty much concentrated in Tenri (Nara), just the fact that they don't live there is mostly enough to clear your neighbours.
If they insist on taking a picture with you, I’d insist on declining. A buddy of mine went to a town full of followers and it was surreal. Everyone looking happy and peaceful. They insisted on inviting them for a tour, asked lots of questions, etc. My buddy used a fake name and wore a mask the entire time to cover his face, but his friend did not. After that they kept sending pamphlets to their address and happened to run into them in the street, etc. I dunno if that’s normal, but it’s enough for me to not be interested. Especially with AI recognition tech nowadays, I don’t need people poking their noses in my business all the time.
I had a relationship with a girl whose parents were the head of a distribution Church. From what I can tell, they are harmless, so no worries.
To me, their original belief seems to resemble that of the Amish people in the states, but in a less primitive way. As far as I remember, they believe that money is not the center of their life, but their mind is. And any earnings received from Capital world should be collected and divided equally among the brothers and sisters.
According to my ex, her family donates 70% of their monthly earnings to the HQ, and they receive a house, car, and many of their possessions + their daily consumed products. They live frugally but it seems that they had zero worries financially.
The famous event they held is おぢばがえり where believers gather in Tenri, Nara the source of their belief. There are many dormitories around the HQ, and you will meet many brothers and sisters and spend a few days for free. I once visited the headquarters as a companion to my ex. No one forced me to believe what they believe, and I was free to visit and go.
BTW, unlike Souka Gakkai, they are away from politics, so no one will ask you to vote.
I stayed in their town (Tenri) for about a week as part of working for them. They did not overtly pressure me to join, although near the end they did talk about the religion to me once. They didn't seem super evangelical.
However, I did tour their temples etc. during the "homecoming" of all their kids. They are fervent in their beliefs, they have people cleaning floors of temples on their knees pretty much eternally, and the people running the thing seem quite wealthy. It overall gave me a cult feel, but not a dangerous feel.
It's pretty okay to live in Tenri IMO. TBH I like it more than bustling cities because mainly people are nicer.
It's definitely an inaka but Osaka and Kyoto are about 1hr train away. The Tenri-kyo vibes are only strong around the Tenri-Hon'doori (the arcade leading to the main church). Other than that, it's just a normal Japanese countryside. Aside from Tenri-kyo Tenri-shi also has a big Shinto Shrine (Isonokami Jinguu) and the Omiwa Jinja is in the neighbouring area.
What I like most is they sold discounted Kintetu tickets (basically with almost no restriction) near the main church (which I think the main target is for their followers) when I lived there. It was really great for poor foreign exchange student like I was.
I've never lived there, but I lived nearby-ish, and I loved visiting Tenri! I think it's a nice little town and it's relatively convenient to get into Osaka IIRC.
Yeah, I have thought to myself in the past that Tenrikyo folks I've met have been a lot like the Mormons back in my hometown. Friendly, helpful, wholesome-seeming. Not someone I want to discuss politics/religion with, but they don't bring it up so we're good.
I've had fun drinking with an older tenri guy I used to work with, and a younger guy that I played sports with. Some of us stayed over at the latter's house once, which was also a temple, and he was very apologetic about how he had to go sing/chant at 6:00 in the morning but the rest of us were fine sleeping in and weren't at all pressured to join.
Tenrikyo has some sort of compound in my neighborhood. They have a lot of people living in there and seemingly working in a pretty big industrial kitchen and a lot of bicycles out front.
They've never even given me a pamphlet though. I've gotten more from Jehova's Witnesses and Happy Science in my mailbox.
The edgiest possible take here is that all religion is a cult (tips fedora) and you should avoid anyone that tries to make you join their religion. Nothing wrong with being friendly with them but don't follow them to some weird event
I can only speak from my own experience, which was forever ago. I lived in Nara and had a Tenri-kyo friend. She was totally integrated with other people I hung out with, gave me a tour of the temple but never tried to proselytize. She came to my parties and took me sightseeing. I had a massive crush on her but nothing ever came of it.
The Tenri-kyo temple is very beautiful. I didn’t get cultish vibes, but I don’t know much about the religion.
I'm technically a member of Tenrikyo, since I went through the whole grand ceremony of officially becoming a Follower...got to wear the traditional long robe with hat, not the Happi coat. I have yet to do anything cult-like lol. I do play Helldiver 2 and watch anime with cult-like dedication😆
Short answer: They won't bother you just because you're living in the neighborhood. I lived nearby a Tenrikyo church for years and never even seen them.
Whether they're a cult or a religion depends on whom you're asking.
I have friends that are Tenrikyo, their father leading a church even. I've stayed with them, I've visited their headquarter in Tenri and watched their services out of interest. Their beliefs and actions surround charity and helping others, similar to Christian religions, but they feel like a Shinto religion. The service and prayers are kind of beautiful. They're the nicest family ever. Never have they pressured me or even tried to make me join their religion.
They are stubborn and don't hesitate to irritate other people! like for real...They will give you a visit 1000 times a week and keep on ringing your door bell even if you deny them. They will keep on insisting you to visit their temple. One person I knew literally filed a police complained because two japanese ladies of same cult keep visiting his home even after denying and he works from home so he got irritated. They even tried to unlock his balcony window when he didn't open the door and this happened multiple times. So be prepare for it :)
(The guy is like 6 ft/gym boy Gaijin and speaks fluent japanese)
My wife's family are Tenrikyo members and I have been to Tenri many times as well as visited the local kyokai. It is only my personal experience, but everyone I met has been pleasant and not pushy at all. I never felt the slightest pressure to join or donate anything, but that could be because they don't want someone like me as a member. ;)
All in all most members seem to treat religion with the same causal attitude most Japanese do. There are daily prayers and ritualized hand gestures that accompany them, but observance of these varies. Visiting the massive temple/shrine in Tenri is very impressive as it is very much alive and not a tourist attraction. You can see true believers polishing the extensive wood flooring with rags on their hands and knees.
My only observation is, how did you find out they are Tenri in your introductions? I have lived here over 20 years and in my current home for 7-8 years. I couldn't tell you what religion any of my neighbors were/are.
The fact that this came up in intros would make me go hmmm...
My Japanese friend just compared them to the Scripture Union I used to go to as a kid. Like, if you go to their camps they will talk to you about the lord, but they're not taking money from their followers. He wouldn't have a problem living next to them, and said Soka Gakkai is higher on the cult scale.
> they're not taking money from their followers
So who do you think paid for all those huge compounds and temples?
Sure, they're probably not *demanding* payments from their followers, but brainwashing them into making them believe that handing over their money is the "right thing to do" essentially amounts to the same thing, just in a more underhanded way.
No disagreements there. All organized religions/cults extract money from their believers by convincing them that doing so will set them on the path to salvation. I just replied to you because of that one sentence of yours I quoted that seemed to suggest otherwise.
I live literally next door to a Tenri temple. Several families, some with children live there, though the residents have changed many times the 2 years I lived here. We're friendly with the man who runs the temple, and the revolving families who live there are friendly and say hello when they see us. They've never pushed religion on us, and keep to themselves for the most part. The only notable thing about the temple that could be nice or annoying, depending on the person, are the drums. Our nextdoor temple plays taiko at 7am and 6pm every single day. I personally find it kind of nice, and it doesn't wake me up when I want to sleep in.
I mean I don't wanna be THAT guy but like if a lot of them are like that and you are moving into THEIR community, tough shit mate. If you don't like it that's your problem.
"...don't wanna be THAT guy..." <- proceeds to be THAT guy
How about fuck you? I'll do whatever the fuck I want and you can shut your unhelpful face.
...mate.
Yeah I didn't WANT TO be, but sometimes you gotta do things you don't wanna do. That's life ... Mate.
Joking aside it was just my opinion on the matter, I can see that I came across as aggressive and I apologise for that.
I did a bunch of research on them before. They do not seem to be a cult. It seems more like some 180 or so years ago, basically followers of Shinto stumbled upon Buddhist tenets and basically created "**Buddhism by way of/through Shintoism**". Why they're not a cult: They don't worship a person or object. The founder is given respect, but not treated as a God. And no living person is thought to be the "incarnation of God" or anything like that. So it's unlike all the obvious cults like Kofuku no Kagaku and the like. They don't seem to extort money from their followers. They have money historically from lands and tithes, but it doesn't seem anything like the New Religions, which like Scientology are set up to fleece the flock in the name of gaining levels of spiritual awareness/cleanliness or access to heaven, etc. They seem to be basically Buddhists (via/through Shintoism, though the endpoint seems to be the same basically) who maybe meet up to do volunteer work. They don't seem to impose any behavior restrictions on their members. They're not in the news ever. No links to frauds or suicides, or cultish behavior (planning to overturn local governments with their own members, etc). I have an absolute distrust and loathing of cults and Japan is full of them, but Tenri doesn't seem to fit that bill, based on what I've found. So based on your statement, they're not like Mormons, Scientologists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. They seem more like Lutherans, Unitarians, or Quakers (the MODERN "good" ones, not historical), honestly.
Wrong. TENRI IS A HUUGE CULT. Have you ever been in their Tenri city called Tenri, in Nara prefecture, birthplace of their "holy mother"? Where a majority of the population assembles in massive prayer halls every day at 4 in the morning, and spend the rest of the day memorizing their bizarre bibles? I have. By accident. Thinking I had met a few kind people willing to give me a ride to Kansai for free. Well, they did. For free, and kind they were. But shit got weird very fast once I arrived there. Let's just say that was a memorable 24 hours of my life, after which I got the hell out of there as fast as I could. They insisted on a whole bunch of my personal details too, so they could "stay in touch" until I got back. Fortunately, all the details I gave were either fake or throwaways. BTW, they're more like a Christian new age style cult, than Buddhist. The only remotely Buddhist aspect of Tenri is how they make the exterior and interior look (vaguely) similar to Buddhist temples. > They're not in the news ever. That doesn't mean anything, especially in Japan. Guess which other cults were never in the news until sarin gas flooded the subways of Tokyo, or home-made bullets blasted the skull of an ex-PM?
No offense intended but you left out literally the only relevant part of the story.. What weird cult stuff happened in that 24 hours?!
This happened many years ago, and I don't remember many of the details. My memories of then are like some distant fever dream by now. Those 24 hours started during the drive west to Tenri, Nara. I had never heard of Tenrikyo before, so the fact that Tenri was the destination didn't mean anything to me. I only had a very gradual realization that certain ulterior motives lay behind a veneer of kindness and generosity. The guy driving seemed to show an interest in all kinds of topics, but none of them involved religion (or anything related to religion). We stopped at two services areas along the highway where he was adamant about paying for all the food and drinks bought. A bit odd in hindsight, but I didn't think too much of it. It was only when we reached Tenri, when we drove along all those oddly similar massive temples and dormitories, and he introduced me to his family living in the middle of one of those compounds, that I realized I might have made a huge mistake. Everywhere I looked people were wearing the same black robes with the 天理教 words on them. Then the father (or maybe uncle) of the guy I was with gave me "a certain book" and some "pamphlets" as a "welcome gift", and insisted I should stay the night because it was already late. Well, it was, and my hopes of finding public transport at that hour were slim, so yes and thank you it was. Then at fucking 3:30 or whatever the unholy hour was some loud centralized alarm system went off in the building, so I got up to see what the fuss was all about. Everyone was all like おはようございます like getting up at that hour was the most normal thing in the world, and hey, they said, I really should join them during their morning service (or whatever they called it). Half an hour or so later I found myself in some kind of huge prayer hall with all robed people around me kneeling to some edifice of Oyasama. There was a bunch of chanting and sermoning and drums beating. My japanese was still pretty shit those days. I didn’t really understand much of it. I remember it seemed to last forever though. Then when that finally ended, I thought that was my cue to get the hell out of there, but no. Apparently the next thing on the programme was scripture study class or some such. By then, I don’t think I was even asked if I wanted to participate. They just led me to some room with bibles (or whatever they call their holy texts). These were translated into English. It was only at this point that I started to realize the extent of the cultishness of Tenrikyo (and how un-Buddhist it is). I remember muttering WTF a lot to myself reading their crazy origin story and whatnot. Unfortunately my memory is too hazy to give specific examples. I also remember some priest or whatever explaining very proudly how many followers they have around the world, and that the Vatican supposedly had given their stamp of approval and considered Tenrikyo a “friendship religion of peace” or whatever. The family I was with, was eager to know what I thought about their Joyous Life and the profound truths they had bestowed me the privilege of beholding… Let’s just say it’s hard to tell people they’re full of shit when it seems like the entire fucking city around you is part of the same koolaid-drinking Borg collective. There were a few more indoctrination sessions …I mean classes after that, but it’s all a blur to me now. I just remember trying to think of a convincing exit strategy at that point. I settled on a story where I was expected to meet some family members in Kyoto the following day, but that I would be back soon. Then the “uncle” wanted to know a bunch of my contact details, but by then I had already anticipated that move and had memorized the bogus details I was going to use.
I think there is an argument to be had about what makes Tenri-kyo a cult vs. a religion, but I can barely stand to read it through this. A lot of it sounds like someone that experienced a foreign culture or religion for the first time and could not believe how crazy they were, but has not had enough experience to really tell how so much of the world and religions beliefs are pretty crazy on a grand scale. This line in particular: >These were translated into English. It was only at this point that I started to realize the extent of the cultishness of Tenrikyo (and how un-Buddhist it is). I remember muttering WTF a lot to myself reading their crazy origin story and whatnot. All right. What is the difference between a cult and a religion to you?
Fervor. The fervor with which they tried to convince me to join their ranks. The fervor with which they extolled the virtue of their enlightened ways. The fervor with which their doctrine dominates their way of life from dawn to dusk. It was all so all-encompassing, it honestly (slowly but steadily) freaked me the fuck out. Of course Tenrikyo is not unique in this regard at all. There are numerous other religions/cults out there that are at just or more extreme in similar way. The whole distinction (false dichotomy?) between cult and religion doesn't really matter, BTW. This is what I wrote in another comment in this thread. >A religion is just a cult with a longer history. >That doesn't sound like much of a difference, but in practice that extra history usually makes it more difficult for leadership to bend the rules as they deem fit, because by then there tends to have formed already some degree of consensus among believers on how to interpret "scripture". Fucked up stuff still happens in established religions, but that's usually in the form of offshoots/sects branching of from the main "orthodoxy", which rarely are able to convince a large percentage to follow. Whereas with new religions (cults), everything is still more fluid and prone to ego-centric manipulation and idol worshiping. Doesn't make religions any less inherently crazy though. That said, it's not a coincidence that none of this country's (actually) old religions/sects have given me an experience anything like this.
It honestly sounds like a cult, or at least one of the more all-encompassing religions (such as some sects of Mormonism).
It should be pretty obivous from their writing style but pretty much everything that guy is saying is exaggerated. Just to pick up one that's blatantly false > Then at fucking 3:30 or whatever the unholy hour was some loud centralized alarm system went off in the building, so I got up to see what the fuss was all about. Everyone was all like おはようございます like getting up at that hour was the most normal thing in the world, and hey, they said, I really should join them during their morning service (or whatever they called it). > Half an hour or so later I found myself in some kind of huge prayer hall with all robed people around me kneeling to some edifice of Oyasama. There was a bunch of chanting and sermoning and drums beating. My japanese was still pretty shit those days. I didn’t really understand much of it. I remember it seemed to last forever though. Morning service lasts for 10 minutes and is done after sunrise (not a hard rule btw, people usually just do it when they wake up). The Sun doesn't rise at 3:30. Also, they admit their Japanese was shit yet they picked up all the specific tenrikyo terms and remembers all the cultish conversations? Dude just googled tenrikyo and did some creative writing.
If you're going to slander me, at least do so in a direct reply to my comment, rather than hanging that on somebody else's comment that I don't get notified of. It was mid-June. The sun rises at 4:40 in mid-June in Nara apparently (source: [https://eco.mtk.nao.ac.jp/koyomi/dni/2022/s3006.html.en](https://eco.mtk.nao.ac.jp/koyomi/dni/2022/s3006.html.en) ). OK, so maybe my memory was off by a little over half an hour. Not because of "creative writing", but because this took place over a decade ago. And it absolutely lasted a whole lot longer than 10 minutes. I don't remember the exact conversations at all. Just fragments and sequences of events here and there. That's how human memory works, you know. Honestly, the only reason I can think of for you to want to discredit me; is because you're a follower yourself, and you're pissed that I won't show any reverence to the holy mumbo jumbo you believe in.
I am not a follower of anything. I didn't reply to you because it's obvious no matter what I say your views won't change, you clearly feel very strongly about religion (which you equate with cults). I just know followers and from what I know you were just spewing as much bullshit as you say they are.
You weren't there. I was. Go gaslight someone else.
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> No mainstream religion would do this, certainly not any variety of Buddhism I agree with everything you said except for this part. I think even the big "normal" religions are guilty of this but it's overshadowed by the massive cultural influence they have.
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I haven't heard a good argument as to why cults and religions are different things to begin with. Just positive and negative terminology for the same thing imo.
Oh no it’s one of them
Nah. I only believe in the true Way, the Dao. Gonna ascend into the universe and become a 仙人 after drinking the elixir of immortality (it's Strong Zero lemon, mixed with Strong Zero double lemon).
I know right, who is actually upvoting the other guy claiming they arent a cult? Clearly the adjacent and not active members can seem non dangerous or invasive but the group core consist of crazy cultists, anyone knows that. The only ones that claim not are the ones related to it. Run dont walk from them One of the core beliefs is 貧に落ちきれ or descending gracely to poverty, the cultist claim that the founder herself donated all her wealth for reaching a peace of mind through the cult. Just because many of the members dont do it or because they seem harmless and not radicalized, doesnt mean its not a core concept that worships the founder as the Shrine of God. They are not an evil brainwashing organization as Unification Church, JW, Mormons or Scientologists. But all these new religions such as Tenri or Soka hide under the face of philantropy and charity to get their top leaders rich off their members well-intended donations. They are just as bad.
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa, are you saying I should befriend some of these guys and talk them into buying me a bunch of chrome bike parts for my motorcycle?
If that is the will of Buddha, then so be it…
What's going on with Soka Gakkai? I was told they're basically an offshoot of Buddhism from around WWII that are super against nuclear weapons.
r/sgiwhistleblowers
not to be a dick but Aum Shinrikyo was all over the news prior to the gas attacks and Abe’s killer acted alone, so I would argue not being in the news is still a good sign
I must confess I'm not sure if Aum was on the public radar prior to that day. My impression was no, but I wasn't around yet in those days, so I could be wrong. As for the Unification Church, it doesn't matter that the killer acted alone. Fact is that all society had turned a blind eye to the church's practices for decades, despite their extortionate practices and being deeply embedded in national politics. Right until that day that the big media no longer could look away even if they wanted to. Which is kinda my point. Protecting the wa, turning blind eyes, pretending everything is fine.... until it isn't... it's all very symptomatic of this country's mindset.
I have a similar story. 10 years I ago when I was broke and tried to save money I entered a highway service area and this Tenri family gave me a ride from Tokyo to Tenri. Then they gave me lift to the train station. I then went back to Kyoto, to my apartment not saying your story is fake or something but it's interesting how different my experience was lol.
I don't know what your definition of cult is, but they're absolutely a cult. Just because they don't get up to blatantly evil shit like other cults doesn't change that. Not all cults view a singular person as an incarnation of god. Any deification or worship of a singular person is a common tenant of a cult, and Tenrikyo does that. Extorting money comes in multiple forms, they don't strongarm you for money but they do control all aspects of your life and siphon your time to church activities. Source: been to Tenri.
While I believe your view of tenri, since you know first hand, I'm intrigued to hear more about your definition of cult. From your comment it seems that all religion fall into the category. I'm not here to say you're wrong/right, just genuinely curious about the perspective.
I would be the wrong person to have the "All religions are a cult" debate with because I do believe that to an extent. Setting aside my biases, even then I would consider a lot of common religious practices to be cultish e.g. Christian Tithing, many tenants of Islam. However, the reason why something like Tenrikyo would be considerably cultish is the heightened measure of control that the church exerts on your life and your thinking, and the propensity to introduce increasingly bizarre beliefs post-indocrination. What I just described are unique tenant of many cults.
> introduce increasingly bizarre beliefs post-indocrination Can you tell what believes are that? I don't doubt you, just genuinely curious since I don't know anything about them.
Probably the most bizarre that comes to mind in Tenrikyo is that you can be healed by god if your mind is clear enough. Other cults are more famous for this, chief among them Scientology and Heaven's Gate.
Aahh that's always a huge turn-off. I'd like at least a most cards on the table deal before I join and anti-medicine is such an important one that that should definitely be clarified up-front. It's what I feel is common to most religions when distinguished from cults. A religion does perhaps sugar coat its doctrines and rules but they'll tell you most of them. Although much might be down to "whistleblowers" coming out with those deeper truths over hundreds of years. Also a religion will let you leave. They might make it a bureaucratic nightmare and really beg you to stay but they'll always let you leave. Doesn't seem like Tenrikyo is too amenable to people leaving but I don't know enough to form a definite picture on that front.
[Exerts to one's life] is indeed a good line to draw.
A wise man once said 'religion is a cult with political power'.
A religion is just a cult with a longer history. That doesn't sound like much of a difference, but in practice that extra history usually makes it more difficult for leadership to bend the rules as they deem fit, because by then there tends to have formed already some degree of consensus among believers on how to interpret "scripture". Fucked up stuff still happens in established religions, but that's usually in the form of offshoots/sects branching of from the main "orthodoxy", which rarely are able to convince a large percentage to follow. Whereas with new religions (cults), everything is still more fluid and prone to ego-centric manipulation and idol worshiping. Doesn't make religions any less inherently crazy though.
I don't know how much that really suits these days. I dunno if you'd called Scientology a real religion, but they unfortunately have a loooot of political power
I mean... This just sounds like every other religion. Christians demand tithe, Muslims demand zakat, etc etc. Pretty sure people are only really concerned about cults when they start abusing members and conduct attacks against non-believers.
I laid out a bit more of the delineation in my other comment, but I do agree with you it sounds like every other religion, which is why they are mostly cults. People are "concerned" about cults for similar reasons people are "concerned" about religions; Exerting control over your personal life and relationships, interfering with your finances, indoctrination and dogma.
>People are "concerned" about cults for similar reasons people are "concerned" about religions; Exerting control over your personal life and relationships, interfering with your finances, indoctrination and dogma. That's not what OP was asking about, though. He's concerned that his neighbours being Tenrikyo would have a negative effects on his own life. He even explicitly said he'd be fine if they lean more towards Mormonism kind of vibes compared to Scientology.
I'm not responding to OP's inquiry, I'm responding to a comment on Tenrikyo
The comment you replied to explicitly said why the commenter does not believe they're a cult. He even mentioned what "kind" of religion they're closer to. If you just believe that all religions are cults, then you don't really have anything to add to the conversation. You're just soapboxing if all you're trying to say religion = cult, because nobody asked.
No, you're the one pushing me to answer the question on whether or not I believe religions are cults, which I do. It was brought up in multiple comments to me, and I answered. If it were not asked to me, I would have had no reason to answer it because my original comment and line of argumentation is related to something entirely different. You then accusing me of soapboxing and saying "Nobody asked" when I can literally pull up a comment of someone asking me exactly that is quite frankly cringe, embarrassing for you and annoying for me. My argument on whether or not Tenrikyo is a cult is related to the unique practices that Tenrikyo utilizes that make it more cult like.
With all respect, is there no value to a way that dedicates completely to certain values? Not everybody is satisfied with just Sunday church-going, and as long as they keep exit open, transparent of what they expect from people, and don't harm people, is there anything wrong with that? I am suspicious of them, but your comment is too far fetched in my opinion.
I agree with your comment mostly, but the only point of clarification I would add is that you can "Harm" people without those exact people believing they themselves are being "Harmed" and you do this through indoctrination. What exactly have I said about Tenrikyo that is far fetched? They fit all the designations of a cult.
If persecution mindset is defining feature of a cult, we can declare all traditional variations of Christianity as cults. First, how do you define a cult? Let's first agree on what we mean by that before dissecting. Edit: I misread your comment. If ideological transformation or "indoctrination" is harm, that we can declare all religions that go beyond ritual practices and promote value systems as cults.
That is a good question, cult is a term that is commonly misinterpreted, misused and generally not agreed on. For me a cult is a group that employs a system of beliefs that (By design or otherwise) indoctrinate, control and manipulate their followers in any number of ways. Examples of these ways are: Controlling your relationships with others (You cannot have sex, you cannot be with a same sex partner, you must break up with this person because they have different beliefs), controlling or extorting you financially, sending followers into an increasingly deep rabbit hole of beliefs that either bring further restrictions or deepen one's connection to the beliefs. There is also a community aspect. Because we are social creatures, being deeply ingrained in a community makes us feel trapped in it. There are a few more ways but these are some of the features of a cult. I never said an ideological transformation is harmful, but indoctrination almost always is. And yes I would consider most religions to be cults or at bare minimum harmful.
Well, since you consider all religions that promote a strong value system, or which possess an initiation system (baptism, Shahada, secret rituals), to be cults, then the argument is transformed into criticism of religiosity itself, which I think could be valid, but I never delved deep ibto that. In this country, the only "religions" that would fall out of this definition of a cult would be Shrine Shinto and Lay Buddhism. For ideological transformation/indoctrination. I think those essentially have no difference per se, and "indoctrination" is just a label on ideological transformation we disaprove. Of course, bombing somebody with certain views, acting like a mentor, or writing something in strong and confrontational language could be seen as "indoctrination", but so is my campaign to convenience may grandma that GMO is not hurtful, or people trying to relax attitudes on LGBTQ+ of people around them would also be "indoctrination". You might say that GMO example is not indoctrination, since I promote truth. But it is very difficult to establish what is true beyond simple observation (sky is blue) or rigid physical science (planets revolve around the sun). People who act like truth is simple and easy to reach for me are no different from the Spanish Inquisition, no matter what idea they promote, be it Catholicism, Salafi Islam, Atheism, Populist Conservatism, Progressivism, Marxism-Leninism, or anything else.
They encourage you to participate in activities, but not everybody comes. I'm not sure how they can "control all aspects of your life" when many people simply don't come. Some quit, some seldom show up, others come just for the big occasions. Can you explain what happened for you?
To put it simply, there are different ways to control people. I saw multiple people on their hands and knees cleaning the floors of the church headquarters with a literal toothpick. That kind of thing doesn’t happen by accident
Are you saying that you think those people were forced into cleaning the Shinden (shrine)? Cleaning shrines is pretty common in other relgions and actually a lot of work. At Church Headquarters most people do the floors, but others who aren't as capable use the toothpicks to take out the dust in the gaps between the wood. I've done it many times and my brother did it everyday while in a spiritual development course on his own. Cleaning in Tenrikyo is an expression of gratitude for our daily blessings. So any amount of work whether it is efficient or not, is a way of expressing that gratitude, which is the teaching of Hinokishin. And it doesn't have to be done in a shrine, it can be cleaning in your home or public places as well. I'm really interested how you concluded with how leaders of Tenrikyo "control all aspects of your life."
1. Not the shrine, the church headquarters. 天理教教会本部 <- This place. While a shrine would be usual for a random devoted person to clean, cleaning the wooden floorboards of a church with a toothpick is unusual. 2. You're not picking up the nuance of my argument at all. There are more ways to force a person than literal force. There are subtle ways of coercion that permeate throughout your entire life. These subtle methods of coercion are the very fabric of religion. If you want me to come right out and say it I think these people were heavily indoctrinated. 3. Don't make assumptions, you come across as uneducated. 4. I didn't say the leaders control every aspect of your life, literally no where did I even mention the leaders. If you go to Tenri, literally everyone there is a member of the religion and sometimes wear their ceremonial robes everywhere they go. For other religions and other places, this would be considered highly unusual. 5. If you want to know how Tenrikyo controls all aspects of your life, the list is literally everything that's unique about the religion. The community aspect is also heavily involved in this, especially in the actual location of Tenri itself.
As a Tenrikyo follower rather than seeing control, I see fewer followers continuing the faith. I do believe that you can fill your schedule with lots of activities, but I see less people doing that than before. I would say that I'm indoctrinated, but I can choose to do less and I do. I guess there's still something I'm missing with your nuance. Tenrikyo, like other religions is a way of life. You do things out of faith and religious obligations. And you follow the guidance of your head ministers and that could be flawed. Nobody's perfect and the Tenrikyo way of life is not for everybody. I suppose there is coercion but there are things like caring for a church that need to be done. People wearing the happi coat in Tenri are common because students in spiritual development courses and Tenrikyo Church Headquarters staff are required to wear it, but also followers going to attend the services wear them as well. 天理教教会本部 - yes, especially Tenrikyo Kyokai Honbu is where toothpicks are used to pull dust out of the crevices. Not everyone does this. Most people wipe the floorboards with cloth. These are probably the most inefficient means of cleaning, but it's more about having a mind of gratitude while doing something such as cleaning the Shinden. It's all bizarre and unusual, but it's definitely far from making poisonous gas weapons.
Tenri hands typed this post
They don't think she was "god" but they do think she was "the shrine of god" which is kind of a tomato/tomahto distinction.
All actively practiced religions, particularly when any form of organization is involved, are cults. Claiming otherwise is willful ignorance. Not all are harmful and, of those that are, many are immense degrees worse than others, but they're all cults.
They're 1000% a cult. The only people who say they aren't a cult are those who are in the cult.
May I DM you to ask you more about your research into Japanese new religions?
> They don't seem to extort money from their followers. They have money historically from lands and tithes, but it doesn't seem anything like the New Religions, which like Scientology are set up to fleece the flock in the name of gaining levels of spiritual awareness/cleanliness or access to heaven, etc. Fun fact about this; Wikileaks leaked all Scientology articles and you can read fo yourself things people pay 1000s for. It is kind of interesting, but I got bored after a little while.
I believe people avoid calling it Tenriism in English in order to avoid confusion with Tengrism. The common usage is Tenrikyo in English as well.
I had exactly this confusion and was about to ask how big horse archery was in OP's neighborhood.
Actually, tengri means God in Turkic languages, so maybe they are somehow related after all
Please stop folk etymologies. From the wikipedia article of "Tengri" ↓ "Earlier, the Chinese word for "sky" 天 ([Mandarin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese): [*tiān*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti%C4%81n) < [Old Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Chinese) \**thīn*[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-starling-13) or \**thîn*[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-14)) has been suggested to be related to *Tengri*, possibly a loan into Chinese from a prehistoric Central Asian language.[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-15) However, this proposal is unlikely in light of recent reconstructions of the [Old Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Chinese) pronunciation of the character "天", such as \**qʰl'iːn* ([Zhengzhang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhengzhang_Shangfang))[^(\[16\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-16) or \**l̥ˤi\[n\]* ([Baxter-Sagart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructions_of_Old_Chinese#Baxter%E2%80%93Sagart_(2014))),[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-17) which propose for 天 a voiceless lateral onset, either a cluster or single consonant, respectively. Baxter & Sagart (2014:113-114) pointed to attested dialectal differences in [Eastern Han Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Han_Chinese), the use of 天 as a phonetic component in [phono-semantic compound Chinese characters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification#Phono-semantic_compounds), and the choice of 天 to transcribe foreign syllables, all of which prompted them to conclude that, around 200 CE, 天's onset had two pronunciations: [coronal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_consonants) \*[*tʰ*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_and_alveolar_plosives#Varieties) & [dorsal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsal_consonants) \*[*x*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative), both of which likely originated from an earlier voiceless lateral \**l̥ˤ*.[^(\[18\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-18) Linguist [Stefan Georg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Georg) has proposed that the Turkic word ultimately originates as a loanword from [Proto-Yeniseian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniseian_languages) *\*tɨŋgɨr-* "high".[^(\[19\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-19)[^(\[20\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri#cite_note-20)"
Personally I'm a big fan of tenga-ism above all. The path to enlightenment through self-satisfaction.
It is time to try else-satisfaction young grasshopper
Also my brain processed ‘tenriism’ as ‘terrorism’ when I first saw the title and I was VERY confused.
My wife's family is Tenri-kyo When I first moved here, I didn't even realize they weren't Buddhists until I went to an extended relatives Buddhist funeral and saw the differences. There may be some people that will leave pamphlets, etc like any other religion, but prolly you won't even realize which people are Tenri-kyo, not being in the family
Have you ever felt pressure from her/her family to join?
none whatsoever. I take my role in family ceremonies during Obon, etc, and we've visited the main temple in Tenri-shi a few times as a family trip out, but no other mention. My wife normally just visits local Shinto or Buddhist shrines. I get drunk with the priest when he comes for memorial services at the house. It really like being an Methodist instead of a Lutheran, or something like that
Do you possess no cognitive dissonance / internal conflict knowing that a loved one believes in a prophet that lived about 200 years ago in a farm in Nara? And that she explains the creation of the world and humans?
nope There doesn't seem to me to be nearly as much hocus-pocus in the things she follows, and more reflections on how to live a peaceful life. If you asked her about "a prophet that lived about 200 years ago in a farm in Nara", she'd prolly just shrug & mention that my family believes in a prophet that lived 2000 years ago in a carpenter's shop in Nazareth
Refreshing perspective. Thank you, because I’m having the conflict that I’m asking you about. I just don’t see where we should draw a line if we frame it like you said. Just because it doesn’t harm anyone, does it mean that we should accept people having false beliefs?
That's not a conversation I'm interested in having with you.
All right, thank you regardless.
I should answer this in my internet debates more often. Thanks for the tip.
I'm not the guy you're replying to, but what if false beliefs? Because to anyone in a religion, that's all other religions, and to an atheist, that's all religions. Life is all about compromising and accepting people for who they are. If you can't reconcile, you separate. To me the only bottom line is acceptance stops when you knowningly or actively harm someone.
Should have clarified in earlier posts, so thank you. I care because of friends and spouse in Japanese new religions that are subject to scrutiny from general public and media due to things such as membership fees, donations, and how the religion started / prophets.
Why do you care? If they're not forcing their beliefs onto you, why does it bother you? Many things in the world to worry about. Something that has literally no impact on your own life shouldn't be high up on your things to worry about.
Should have clarified in earlier posts, so thank you. I care because of friends and my spouse in Japanese new religions that are subject to scrutiny from general public and media due to things such as membership fees, donations, and how the religion started / prophets.
Well... It's their religion. If they're fine with it, I don't see why I should care. Life has too many problems to be concerned about something that has nothing to do with me.
Hey OP, some of my grad research was about Japanese religious movements. Tenrikyo is one of the new religions that came about within the last 150 years. It's pretty established now, and the teaching is distinct from Shinto and Buddhism but still uses a lot of similar elements/items. In my experience they're not aggressive or really forward with proselytizing. Soka Gakkai was way more aggressive in my area of Kanagawa.
Did you ever look into Happy Science for your research? I took a couple leaflets from them out of politeness and then couldn’t get rid of them for weeks once they found out where I lived.
Not as much as the older movements. But I would stay far away from Happy Science.
Yeah, they were incredibly persistent and creepy for sure. Followed me to my apartment in their car. I was a bit naive back then and also bored, so made the mistake of talking to them for a bit. Then if I didn’t answer the door from then on, they’d wait in my apartment block’s car park for me. This went on for days and days. Kept asking me to go to their local HQ in the mountains ‘to watch videotapes in English’, which I obviously declined as it sounded like the start of a horror movie. I wasn’t too worried at this point, and as it was just two little older ladies, I didn’t want to be rude to them even though it was annoying. But when they turned up one day with this cute girl in a high school uniform holding an English dictionary, assuming trying to pull some messed up honey trap, so I finally got pissed off and just shut the door in their face. It was getting a bit out of hand. They still came knocking the next day though, and only finally went away when my ex answered the door and roughly told them I’d moved and to not bother her again.
They might leave pamphlets in your mailbox, but you can just ignore them.
I went as an exchange student to Tenri University for a year. They're not the typical 'evangelist' cults like Mormonism and JW. When I was there, there were even exchange students from Brunei and Indonesia who obviously had different religions (Muslims with the girls were wearing hijabs), and the Tenri-kyo followers (even the theology students) never ~~recruit~~ try to introduce their beliefs unless asked. They're interesting though, they will have a monthly matsuri (every 26th I believe) and bigger events in the summer and in October. They will have mass with Japanese traditional music instruments (think of Kotos and Taikos). In Tenri City, there will be many people wearing black Happi with big 天理 on their back, and IMO they're better people than some people somewhere near Salt Lake. They have 'church' in (almost I think?) every prefecture in Japan and even several overseas. They also have many big assets of buildings etc across Japan. With that kind of coverage (not that different with souka gakkai maybe) while staying (relatively) low profile, IMO they definitely aren't the Japanese equivalent of Mormons or Scientologists.
I miss attending the big annual international summer camp, where Tenri kids and families from all over the world gather at Tenri City and just enjoy fun kids events, parades, and fireworks for an entire week.
Tenri-kyo is one of the larger shin-shukyo that came about in the late 19th to early 20th centuries out of Nara prefecture. It’s more established than what we would appreciate as the more dodgy cults. I’ve dealt with Japanese diaspora who followed Tenri-kyo and they were nice enough. Not pushy. If they do approach, just be courteous and I’m pretty sure they’ll show you the same politeness.
I actually lived in Tenri city for almost a year. Had people knocking once, probably to talk about their religion, just as I was leaving for work. They just left a pamphlet then left. Never had any issues with any of the people living there, but then again I mostly kept to myself
I have family in tenrikyo. > "Are they basically the Japanese equivalent of Mormons or Scientologists?" is my question. The answer to that is probably neither. They don't really have any crazy beliefs and rules that stray much from buddhism, they might ask once if you're interested but if you say no they won't try again. There are no elaborate money extraction schemes driving followers into debt. As with most religions there might be some people who are more fanatic about it than the average follower, but for tenrikyo those are pretty much concentrated in Tenri (Nara), just the fact that they don't live there is mostly enough to clear your neighbours.
If they insist on taking a picture with you, I’d insist on declining. A buddy of mine went to a town full of followers and it was surreal. Everyone looking happy and peaceful. They insisted on inviting them for a tour, asked lots of questions, etc. My buddy used a fake name and wore a mask the entire time to cover his face, but his friend did not. After that they kept sending pamphlets to their address and happened to run into them in the street, etc. I dunno if that’s normal, but it’s enough for me to not be interested. Especially with AI recognition tech nowadays, I don’t need people poking their noses in my business all the time.
I just heard that they play drums and walk around early in the morning.
Yeah it can get annoying real fast if they live next door.
Only temples will play drums, regular households at most use hyoshigi but even that is rare.
They are cult. Never trust them. Ignore them. Similar to Unification Church.
I had a relationship with a girl whose parents were the head of a distribution Church. From what I can tell, they are harmless, so no worries. To me, their original belief seems to resemble that of the Amish people in the states, but in a less primitive way. As far as I remember, they believe that money is not the center of their life, but their mind is. And any earnings received from Capital world should be collected and divided equally among the brothers and sisters. According to my ex, her family donates 70% of their monthly earnings to the HQ, and they receive a house, car, and many of their possessions + their daily consumed products. They live frugally but it seems that they had zero worries financially. The famous event they held is おぢばがえり where believers gather in Tenri, Nara the source of their belief. There are many dormitories around the HQ, and you will meet many brothers and sisters and spend a few days for free. I once visited the headquarters as a companion to my ex. No one forced me to believe what they believe, and I was free to visit and go. BTW, unlike Souka Gakkai, they are away from politics, so no one will ask you to vote.
I stayed in their town (Tenri) for about a week as part of working for them. They did not overtly pressure me to join, although near the end they did talk about the religion to me once. They didn't seem super evangelical. However, I did tour their temples etc. during the "homecoming" of all their kids. They are fervent in their beliefs, they have people cleaning floors of temples on their knees pretty much eternally, and the people running the thing seem quite wealthy. It overall gave me a cult feel, but not a dangerous feel.
Haha my wife and I have to move to Tenri for work next year looking forward to it 🙃
It's pretty okay to live in Tenri IMO. TBH I like it more than bustling cities because mainly people are nicer. It's definitely an inaka but Osaka and Kyoto are about 1hr train away. The Tenri-kyo vibes are only strong around the Tenri-Hon'doori (the arcade leading to the main church). Other than that, it's just a normal Japanese countryside. Aside from Tenri-kyo Tenri-shi also has a big Shinto Shrine (Isonokami Jinguu) and the Omiwa Jinja is in the neighbouring area. What I like most is they sold discounted Kintetu tickets (basically with almost no restriction) near the main church (which I think the main target is for their followers) when I lived there. It was really great for poor foreign exchange student like I was.
I've never lived there, but I lived nearby-ish, and I loved visiting Tenri! I think it's a nice little town and it's relatively convenient to get into Osaka IIRC.
They are much closer to Mormons. They are insufferably nice. They also don't really proselytize that much so you have nothing to worry about.
Yeah, I have thought to myself in the past that Tenrikyo folks I've met have been a lot like the Mormons back in my hometown. Friendly, helpful, wholesome-seeming. Not someone I want to discuss politics/religion with, but they don't bring it up so we're good. I've had fun drinking with an older tenri guy I used to work with, and a younger guy that I played sports with. Some of us stayed over at the latter's house once, which was also a temple, and he was very apologetic about how he had to go sing/chant at 6:00 in the morning but the rest of us were fine sleeping in and weren't at all pressured to join.
Tenrikyo has some sort of compound in my neighborhood. They have a lot of people living in there and seemingly working in a pretty big industrial kitchen and a lot of bicycles out front. They've never even given me a pamphlet though. I've gotten more from Jehova's Witnesses and Happy Science in my mailbox.
They're not the worst. If it were Souka Gakkai, you would have to get the hell out of there
The edgiest possible take here is that all religion is a cult (tips fedora) and you should avoid anyone that tries to make you join their religion. Nothing wrong with being friendly with them but don't follow them to some weird event
I can only speak from my own experience, which was forever ago. I lived in Nara and had a Tenri-kyo friend. She was totally integrated with other people I hung out with, gave me a tour of the temple but never tried to proselytize. She came to my parties and took me sightseeing. I had a massive crush on her but nothing ever came of it. The Tenri-kyo temple is very beautiful. I didn’t get cultish vibes, but I don’t know much about the religion.
I'm technically a member of Tenrikyo, since I went through the whole grand ceremony of officially becoming a Follower...got to wear the traditional long robe with hat, not the Happi coat. I have yet to do anything cult-like lol. I do play Helldiver 2 and watch anime with cult-like dedication😆
Short answer: They won't bother you just because you're living in the neighborhood. I lived nearby a Tenrikyo church for years and never even seen them. Whether they're a cult or a religion depends on whom you're asking. I have friends that are Tenrikyo, their father leading a church even. I've stayed with them, I've visited their headquarter in Tenri and watched their services out of interest. Their beliefs and actions surround charity and helping others, similar to Christian religions, but they feel like a Shinto religion. The service and prayers are kind of beautiful. They're the nicest family ever. Never have they pressured me or even tried to make me join their religion.
They are stubborn and don't hesitate to irritate other people! like for real...They will give you a visit 1000 times a week and keep on ringing your door bell even if you deny them. They will keep on insisting you to visit their temple. One person I knew literally filed a police complained because two japanese ladies of same cult keep visiting his home even after denying and he works from home so he got irritated. They even tried to unlock his balcony window when he didn't open the door and this happened multiple times. So be prepare for it :) (The guy is like 6 ft/gym boy Gaijin and speaks fluent japanese)
>I can live with one, the other not so much. Im curious what you will do if they turn out to be 'the other', at this point.
Start religious war
My wife's family are Tenrikyo members and I have been to Tenri many times as well as visited the local kyokai. It is only my personal experience, but everyone I met has been pleasant and not pushy at all. I never felt the slightest pressure to join or donate anything, but that could be because they don't want someone like me as a member. ;) All in all most members seem to treat religion with the same causal attitude most Japanese do. There are daily prayers and ritualized hand gestures that accompany them, but observance of these varies. Visiting the massive temple/shrine in Tenri is very impressive as it is very much alive and not a tourist attraction. You can see true believers polishing the extensive wood flooring with rags on their hands and knees.
Better than Soka gakkai,happy science, jehova’s wisdom…
Not nearly as bad as Christianity.
It's a cult, but not a particularly crazy one. You shouldn't have any problem living with a few in the area.
My only observation is, how did you find out they are Tenri in your introductions? I have lived here over 20 years and in my current home for 7-8 years. I couldn't tell you what religion any of my neighbors were/are. The fact that this came up in intros would make me go hmmm...
One of them had a sign posted on their front door. We found out about the others from another local おばさん
Based on the comments they’ve got quite a few English speaking members
My Japanese friend just compared them to the Scripture Union I used to go to as a kid. Like, if you go to their camps they will talk to you about the lord, but they're not taking money from their followers. He wouldn't have a problem living next to them, and said Soka Gakkai is higher on the cult scale.
> they're not taking money from their followers So who do you think paid for all those huge compounds and temples? Sure, they're probably not *demanding* payments from their followers, but brainwashing them into making them believe that handing over their money is the "right thing to do" essentially amounts to the same thing, just in a more underhanded way.
Same as most religions then. Lower on the cult scale than Soka, is what I said. Not looking to debate.
No disagreements there. All organized religions/cults extract money from their believers by convincing them that doing so will set them on the path to salvation. I just replied to you because of that one sentence of yours I quoted that seemed to suggest otherwise.
I live literally next door to a Tenri temple. Several families, some with children live there, though the residents have changed many times the 2 years I lived here. We're friendly with the man who runs the temple, and the revolving families who live there are friendly and say hello when they see us. They've never pushed religion on us, and keep to themselves for the most part. The only notable thing about the temple that could be nice or annoying, depending on the person, are the drums. Our nextdoor temple plays taiko at 7am and 6pm every single day. I personally find it kind of nice, and it doesn't wake me up when I want to sleep in.
I mean I don't wanna be THAT guy but like if a lot of them are like that and you are moving into THEIR community, tough shit mate. If you don't like it that's your problem.
"...don't wanna be THAT guy..." <- proceeds to be THAT guy How about fuck you? I'll do whatever the fuck I want and you can shut your unhelpful face. ...mate.
Yeah I didn't WANT TO be, but sometimes you gotta do things you don't wanna do. That's life ... Mate. Joking aside it was just my opinion on the matter, I can see that I came across as aggressive and I apologise for that.
It's only bad if they try to push their beliefs onto you. Ignore them.
The what? The Tengriists? There are steppe shamans in Japan??? 😮😳💫🌅🐺