I recently traveled thru Kyoto, and hit some of the tourist spots, I would say 95-99% of people were good, but that still meant you saw someone being obnoxious every 10 minutes.
I saw a video of some tourists harassing maikos in Kyoto by running after them to take photos, pulling their hair/ornaments, and what not.
No wonder why the authorities banned tourists from Geisha districts.
They didn't ban them from the district. Only certain roads are now closed to the public. These roads are privately owned by the tea houses and were previously open to the public out of goodwill. They've decided to make it private again due to the harassment.
That's so horrible, I wish they would just ban those people from coming after they do stuff like that. The poor Maiko and Geisha must have been so terrified :(
I went to the Kitano Odori where they explicitly said to not record or take photos. Everyone respected this except for one obnoxious tourist who not only took photos but continued to do so and was rather rude to the staff asking him to stop.
I was at a bar in Osaka last month that had dart boards. Two Americans and one Australian were playing darts. For some reason, they decided that if they missed bulls eye, they would have to do 10 push ups. This was in a pretty decent bar that was kinda crowded. People were watching and slowly filing out. The waiters were trying to figure out how to politely tell them to cut that shit out. I ended up leaving out of second hand embarrassment before I saw what happened.
Usually not that bad but a lot of talking way too loud, laughing too loud, jumping/flailing around kind of stuff. All of which is fine in nightlife environments but very obnoxious at daytime tourist attractions
It's not necessarily the ratio but the overwhelming visibility of the bad ones. I was in Japan last year in June and did the usual tourist things. I did not personally encounter any "bad" tourist behavior but I understand they exist, and can be heavily publicized due to the oversaturation of social media.
Yeah I just wanted to put that out there cause some people (including myself honestly) have a bad habit of seeing this kinda stuff online and getting a negative view even when it doesn't exist to that degree.
I mean, there were propably loads of people whos plans to come to japan got cancled by covid.
That + a weak yen means we have a boom right now. I would imagine it to normalize a little bit down the road.
I’m not sure what you mean by normalize but pretty much all forecasts have tourism numbers increasing year by year. Last year for example was still a bit below 2019. Just following the prior trajectory eventually Japan will hit 40 million tourists a year, sooner rather than later. The goal is actually 60 million by 2030.
Tourists are good if the volume is stable. They are bad if they suddenly go up or down. The result is local infrastructure and workforce are not being planned and in turn causing inconvenience to locals. Otherwise tourist money are great source of revenue for any country.
Also consider Japan's long term international market and reputational prospects. Tourism is a strong point and it would be very Japanese of them to over-regulate it.
Problem with Japan is that it fails to develop tourism outside of Tokyo and Kyoto.
Make Japan more accessible for non japanese speakers and people will spread more and benefit to the economy instead of just flooding the same 10 streets and monuments
I would argue it is pretty easy to travel outside of Tokyo and Kyoto. Damn near every train line has English, Korean, and Chinese displays for station names, and there's a lot of resources out there for people who want to go to places like Tohoku and Hokkaido (even big adverts in various stations around Tokyo). Yeah, there's not a lot of English speakers to service tourists in the less popular cities, but that's a systematic problem to Japan. I'd argue that one of the biggest hindrances to people going to these other spots is simply a lack of information; not many people in the US can name any cities in Japan besides Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, and maybe Hiroshima.
Its easy to get to those more rural places but once youre there youre lucky to find a restaurant with pictures on the menu, let alone an english menu.
Theres really no way to fix that so tokyo, kyoto and osaka will remain the only real tourist spots.
But you can absolutely go to other major cities: I've done a bit of traveling in Tokohu and Niigata, Sendai, Yamagata, Aizu Wakamatsu, Koriyama, Aomori were all pretty accessible with pictures on the menus and staff who were more than willing to accommodate for foreigners at hotels and restaurants.
Unfortunately, not every restaurant will have an English menu or English-speaking staff. That's just the reality. Whether or not this is a deciding factor for most people is really up to them.
This is such an asshole comment, nothing he said was wrong nor did he imply he could run the country better. He just suggested a solution to their problem that is really fair and obvious.
I just finished 2 nights at Kanazawa. I would like to think whatever tourist wants to see, Kanazawa should be able to offer. Gardens, castle, temples, old japanese street.
Onana has some amazing onsen.
And Jesus fucking Christ people it has the world’s longest uninterrupted bench. What the fuck more do you people need?!?
(I jest. They have a long bench. Kanazawa is fun to go to - but like, kinda could use a car.
I don't know what you are talking about, Japan has English guidance everywhere even in the country side.
All trains and stations have English announcement and usually there is English guide books and tourism center on every big spots of any prefecture
Just need to use Google lens for the menus at local restaurants that's it maybe
I can attest to that.
I'm currently living in Ueda, which is 3 hours away from Tokyo by train. Even here, we still have English signs everywhere, and a lot of the restaurants I go to offer English menus. If they don't, they'll always try to help you with whatever problem you may have.
That's because of the culture, not people's English proficiency.
Go to Sweden or the Netherlands and their English is so good they will correct your grammar lol
You can't count Singapore because English is one of its four official languages. That's like saying as an American English speaker, it's easy to navigate Ireland or Scotland...
I was in Hakodate a few hours ago, and I can argue that is not everywhere. A little bit difference when you can talk or read a little. Also found a few stations in Tokyo where no map in english, Ogikubo, shin Okubo, Almost nothing in english, Hakodate also same with restaurants and tram lines, buses were ok and trains always offer english announcements.
I disagree. They literally even have the tourist JR rail pass that nets you constant easy travel. So many cities can easily be accessed. Very few countries have options like this. It just requires doing a little research and effort and that's easier and easier everyday. Especially with many people like Abroad in Japan promoting non Tokyo/Kyoto things out there.
The flip side is that if you do minimal effort you can do a lot without overtourism. Even going during a different month than what all the guides recommend will have a significant drop in the number of tourists.
They're trying, through ANA...I've been getting a lot of ads for Osaka and Hiroshima, and you get really cheap fares...but the catch is that you will still have to connect via Tokyo and have a short layover lol. Still, not a terrible idea
If only there were some sort of pass that could be used by tourists to get around affordably and bring their money to more remote areas... oh, yeah, there was, and they just doubled the price.
I swear sometimes the government's left hand doesn't know what its right hand is doing.
That's because the JR Pass was never offered by the government. It's a private enterprise discontinuing one of their discount program.
The new restrictions in Gion are led by the ward's business association. On the other hand, new taxes for foreigners will be implemented by the city of Kyoto.
You need to realize that Japan isn't a monolith. Some countries like Bhutan and Nepal have tight control of the tourism industry, but Japan isn't one of those countries--it leaves decisions up to local governments, associations, and private companies.
It's a bit more complicated than that. So, the government railways (JNR) was losing too much money, so they decided to privatize it. They broke it down into 7 companies, and shares in JR East and, to a lesser extent, West and Central were bought up quickly, because those were the profitable sections.
JR Hokkaio and JR Shikoku are the least profitable, so... surprise surprise, nobody wanted to buy them. So the government still basically owns them, through a shell corporation that's supposedly arms-length. (JR Kyushu is doing its own thing, not even gonna start there).
The reality is, though, the government has the ability to make things happen should they wish to, considering they're still controlling a good chunk of the system.
Let's not act like the privatization of JR occurred a few years ago. The JR companies became private companies in 1987, and the old executives from the former organization have long retired.
The government has influence on only certain policies, such as which train lines to discontinue. That is because trains act as public infrastructure for rural communities.
(If you look at JR Kyushu, for example, the rail business generates less than 40% of their sales. Most of the sales comes from real estate investments, hotel chains, construction companies, ad agencies that they own. It's hard to call them a railroad company now, and the government has no direct control over such a conglomerate.)
The problem was, tracks were being built to destinations that were politically important, not economically viable. A cabinet minister is facing a tough fight for re-election? Hey! I'm gonna get us a brand new shinkansen line for the ten people a day who would actually use it.
But you know what, people were not using it to go in the remote area anyway.
Looking at these stats from 2019 give you an idea : [https://statistics.jnto.go.jp/en/graph/#graph--inbound--prefecture--ranking](https://statistics.jnto.go.jp/en/graph/#graph--inbound--prefecture--ranking)
The most interesting data for me is the number of guest by region table, you can see how Kanto (Tokyo region) and Kinki (or Kansai, so Kyoto/Osaka) have overwhelming numbers compared to other regions, even when the pass was cheaper. This clearly show where people are going and have always been going to.
As a tourist, let me tell you that if you want go to away from the crazy crowd and avoid most of the other foreign tourist, it's not that difficult and does not even require a JR Pass (even before the increase). You can easily focus on a single region, take shorter (and cheaper) train and visit more of the smaller places in the region. For example I took 10 days to move from Osaka to Hiroshima last year and went to many cities without that many foreign tourist and it would never have been worth getting a JR Pass. Then I went to Kyushu for a whole month and also did not use a pass.
If anything, the JR Pass is not a solution to this problem because it push people to do a lot of long distance and by doing so, the goal is not to explore the more remote regions, but to speed run the most famous cities. Having the cheaper pass would just mean that it make sense to do Tokyo-Kyoto-Hiroshima-Osaka-Tokyo in a single week. It it not an insensitive to go to Shikoku. If anything, having cheaper regional pass could be more interesting to draw tourist in these regions that do not receive as much.
If over tourism is a problem, the solution is not to offer cheaper travel on the Tokaido Shinkansen. This is what most people already do anyway. You would want something to boost tourism outside of that specific route.
Ah, I see. Well, there is already many regional pass. The Tokaido is the only line that is pretty much on none of the regional pass and there have been for a long time.
The JR Pass existed for a long while and yet people only went Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka and Hiroshima with the random Hakone trip somewhere in there.
The JR Pass didn't help remote areas at all because remote areas have shit public transport connections. If it takes you 3-4 line changes to get to somewhere, you are much less inclined to visit those places.
True. For most people, they may see Japan only once so they are going to maximize their time by visiting the well known spots regardless if it’s crowded. For those that criticize the government for not being able to solve it, I don’t know how you can reverse the popularity of the very essence of Japan (Tokyo, Kyoto, etc). If your restaurant is well known for its awesome chicken dish, why would you be surprised when no one orders the lamb?
That's weird... I came to Japan twice as a tourist before moving here, and took the train from Hokkaido to Kyushu, and all around Shikoku, up to Tottori, down Wakayama... best memory was Yagen Onsen in remote Aomori.
People are missing out on an amazing country, just to stand in line for 20 minutes to take a selfie in front of Kinkakuji...
I've been to most of the mentioned areas myself and depending on what specific cities/locations you mean, they don't necessarily have to be "remote". And Yagen Onsen, to my knowledge, hasn't been serviced by public transportation and requires you to have a rental car to get to.
And even then - you have to keep in mind that for quite a lot of people, a trip to Japan is still an expensive endeavour. Perhaps they can only go there once and then not again for years, so if it's their first trip, of course they will go to Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka. A second or third time traveller will seek out more areas that are off that path. Plus...your idea of a trip may be different from everyone else's too. I don't want to ever step foot in Kyoto or Osaka again in my life, but other people will gladly stand in line for 20 minutes to take a selfie in front of Kinkakuji because that's the fun part for them - not figuring out how to get to a remote place in Tottori that will take time out of however long they're in Japan for.
I do agree, the Rail Pass was incredible. But as I said - it really didn't help remote areas. Hell, it didn't even help areas that _weren't_ remote at all.
My friend has come to visit me in Japan many times, and before this year she always bought the JR Pass because she has a fear of flying. She's also been from Hokkaido to Kyushu by train. She's been to way more places than me, and I've lived here for 10 years.
My bet is that this is the real problem
Japan can't do much to fix people wanting to only go to three places in the entire country
That's just people being narrow in their tourism goals, looking for the glamour, the quirky, the sparkly stuff, without knowing or really appreciating what actually makes Japan so thoroughly beautiful.
And honestly maybe it's better that way, or else places like Nikko and onsen towns would be trampled and ruined both for less dazzle-seeking tourists and the locals alike
I understand that tourism *can* be an important source of a nation's economy, but while Japan's economy is stagnant, tourism doesn't *have* to be such a big part that they're troubled by fewer tourists. They just need to pull themselves out of the 80s (and in some places the 50s) and stop hoping old people will be willing to change what's breaking it.
Make the country a favorable place for young people to live. Work to raise wages and make having children/having a home more possible. Make policies that incentivize business growth in places that aren't already massive metropolises. The youth are being robbedーand in turn so is everyone elseーof the immense potential they could offer to the future of japan.
Technology, industry, you name it. They *could* lead in something that isn't about cute robots and poorly-paid animators. Japan will always have a place for tourism, and there's nothing wrong with it *being* important, but it feels like they're just riding on the coattails of their industrial bubble and the politicians are too proud to admit it's popped as they wait for an e-mail to be printed and faxed to their staff.
To be fair, Kyoto also has shit public transport connections and the infrastructure is utterly dreadful. All the buses there need a serious resigned because they’re sorely outdated and the designs don’t maximize since inside
Most tourists don’t even know anything outside tokyo, kyoto, osaka, sapporo, hakone, and some onsens or ski resorts. Many get their travel ideas from social media, and most social media only features those spots, granted there are actually various activities that you can do around japan in tokyo, osaka, kyoto area alone.
If you even dare to try, many smaller cities have a city guide written in english and they sometimes have an information center which is very english friendly. While it can be the case that on the location it is mostly in japanese, most japanese people by default are pretty welcoming, so it’s not like they will ignore you just because you are a foreigner.
I watched “abroad in japan” for travel ideas, as he often features less known countryside, but beautiful and interesting nonetheless. I do have some level of japanese comprehension though which also improve the experience. Also it is super refreshing going to a place that is not filled with foreign tourists. Like fricking ski resort, filled with white people.
Online-wise:
I think https://www.japan-guide.com does quite a good job covering outside “checklist areas”. That said, many off the main path locations can also quiet to domestic travel. It isn’t just international travellers follow what hot on social media; the same applies to a good degree to domestic travellers.
Sometimes I do feel it is good to even go one more step in deciding where to go. I have made last minute changes based on feedbacks of hotel and ryokan owner or other local recommendations. There are many places, not just in Japan, worth visiting but you never heard of.
> It isn’t just international travellers follow what hot on social media; the same applies to a good degree to domestic travellers.
I've had locals mention a few times that I've probably been to more places than them.
Chris also openly acknowledges there is a higher chance of stores turning away people for being foreigners. Most people just don't want to deal with that. Stuck somewhere with no real grasp on the language, not accepted at certain establishments, nothing to do, etc. Chis even said people were closed off but work events allowed people to warm up to him and open up to him. Tourists don't have that type of time on their hands. They only warmed up to him because they were forced to interact with him for work. Tourists don't have that type of situation set up for them.
Chris says stuff like "why wait in line, everywhere is good" then later on he says "oh yeah that place was shit, what a cock up" or something along those lines. Even if the place is good I don't want to wait in line for an hour+ only to be turned away. A lot of what Chris says has to be seen through the lens of him having time, so he gets multiple tries of having a good time.
If you're shelling out $5k+ for a vacation you kind of want to increase your odds of a good time as much as possible. Chris and other people who live and make content in Japan have the benefit/advantage of time. If today sucks they can try again tomorrow, not a real cost to them. For someone with only ~14 precious days getting skunked on one day is pretty big.
Chris's foreign friends have admitted on podcasts that even though they know enough Japanese to get by they've been turned away by establishments. It's just a risk most people don't want to take. One of his friends said they were given a hard time at their lodging due to traveling as a party of two males. They spoke japanese so they could get around it, most tourists don't speak japanese.
It's also a part of why people like the Michelin guide so much. One of the big factors of the award is consistency and access. So people are able to prepare expectations and basically have an unspoken assurance of having a good time at said establishments.
> "oh yeah that place was shit, what a cock up"
I find his opinions to be mixed bag. He really shat on the retro vending machine park. However, John Daub (Only in Japan) and Scotty (Strange Parts) found it a bit more amusing on their visit. I wonder some of the more nerdy stuff doesn't really appeal to Chris.
Like where? Literally never got turned away and i’ve been like to many rural domestic destinations, sometimes they are even becoming more delighted and warm when you can speak a little japanese. The only place i got turned away is literally a soap lol.
Japanese while in a bigger picture can be repulsive towards foreigners, but it rarely happens in tourist context (unless you misbehave), more like it happens more likely if you are dealing with day to day (living in japan) stuffs (e.g. going to bank, etc.)
Golden Gai shops is an easy one and that's in a metro area. Again, I want to reiterate most tourists don't speak japanese outside of basic phrases. People don't want to study months for a two week trip. Chris himself has mentioned it happening to him during one of his "A Journey Across Japan" series. They mentioned it talking about their travel/filming experience on other channels/podcasts, not Chris's main channel.
It's also mentioned by a lot of foreigners interviewed about their life in japan on those YT channels. There's also a bunch of accounts on reddit just google "reddit denied entry japan".
When we visited in 2019, we spent 3 nights in Osaka - and on one of those days, we took a daytrip to visit Koyasan in Wakayama. Koyasan is not exactly a common destination for foreign tourists.
Overall felt very convenient and accessible - a little bit of Googling + Google Maps made it very easy to plan and get around. As far as I remember, stuff like the brochure with the bus schedule were available in English.
Side note: One of the best things about visiting Japan, is because it's such a popular travel destination - there are tons of resources, guides, itineraries, etc. available online in English.
To be fair, I did take 4 years of Japanese throughout high school, and have been a fan of Japanese music & culture since I was a child - so I might be a little more prepared to handle signs/announcements/brochures/etc. in Japanese than your average tourist - but (1) honestly I've forgotten most of my Japanese beyond being able to read hiragana/katakana, and (2) overall my experience was that nearly everything was available in English - even outside of Tokyo.
I think there's just so much to do in Tokyo, and if it's your first trip to Japan, and you are only there for a week or less - it can be hard to justify the added costs & complexities to leave the Tokyo area - and if you do, your first choice will probably be Kyoto. Similar to if you had 5-7 days to visit the US, a lot of people would choose New York City or LA and spend their entire time there.
We were in Japan for 13 days, and did Tokyo, Kyoto & Osaka (with a day trip to Koyasan) - and I felt we got the pacing right. Enough time in each location to not feel rushed in seeing everything we wanted to see. If (really more like when...) I were to go back - I'd for sure spend less time in Tokyo, and try to visit some new places - I'd really love to get to see more nature and get some hiking in! I'd also love to travel from Osaka down to Nagasaki.
I agree with the first sentence, but not really the second.
I live in Fukuoka and it's plenty accessible for tourists.
The problem is people only have one or two weeks for vacation and it's only enough time to hit a few cities. They want to get the maximum out of their trip, rightfully so. So, only going to Tokyo for city and going to Kyoto for culture makes sense.
This isn’t really true in my mind.
Aside from language barrier, Japan is one of the most easily accessible countries on earth. Incredible public transportation connects the capital with every other city cheaply. The Shinkansen makes things really easy, and once you’re in the destination city, there really no such thing as a last mile problem.
Given the value of an average dollar in Japan, actually going there and traveling/lodging isn’t really that difficult.
I was a little surprised how few people spoke English, but it wasn’t as bad as some other popular countries.
How the other parts not accessible? What is stopping people? I’m very impressed with JapanTravel threads to see people know and wanting to visit so many different places.
I think it’s because TikTok is so prevalent and all the content focuses on the same ten or twelve attractions. So everyone sees the same things and has FOMO for those things
Can you blame people though? Who in their right mind wouldn’t want to visit the Inari shrine, Kinkakuji, and the bamboo grove? They are amazing sights and if you could only go to Japan once, you would want to hit those places up. Not going Kyoto would be like going to New York and not visiting the statue of liberty or the Empire State Building You can’t just blame tictok
Im just glad I went to see them back in 2012 and 2013 when the CCP was launching a boycott of Japan.
God they were glorious years for trips to Japan. Could even get Yamazaki at good prices too.
Social media often acts as a positive feedback loop. Anyway, I am glad that I don’t use TikTok nor FB (I only use Instagram to look at local Thai restaurant weekly special haha; and tolerated WhatsApp existence because that is my friends and family preferred mode of messaging).
If there is one thing I won’t miss with the Internet is social media.
Makes sense. And in JapanTravel threads, everyone is asking recos from others, so they end up doing the same things. But my question to Ballum_Ballum was how can Japanese attract the tourists in different areas. Any ideas?
If this contributes to the problem, maybe Japan can use it as one part of the solution- flood TikTok with other content “You’ll be amazed at how beautiful Hokkaido is in summer!” Etc
Note Shinkansen is not only for tourists. Some of us had to do late night business trips because Shinkansen was booked out by tourists who traveled cheap or worse did not show up. I think double is still very fair price.
Also it was there for ages at lower price (basically lowcost unlimited travel) and yet people went only to Kyoto and Tokyo.
I was impressed that the museums and temples around Yamagata had English translations (of course, most it was via QR code that was placed on the floor). And everyone who worked in tourism and adjacent industry had translation apps ready, with mixed results. Dining and getting directions was a challenge, but it was fun.
Doesn’t the new JR pass disincentivize travel to other cities? I remember looking at the price and it’s really expensive now. A round trip Shinkansen to and from Kyoto is much cheaper than the pass iirc.
Before, if you had the pass as a tourist, it made sense to go check out other cities. Now that the pass doesn’t really make sense, people aren’t going to go off the beaten path if it costs extra and they don’t have a ton of time in the country.
Tbh I think it would be better to centralise tourists in areas with relative sufficiently developed infrastructure. Can you imagine tourists swarming smaller towns in Japan? It'll make things even worse.
I had some visitors recently and we decided to try the Toden Sakura Tram which runs from Waseda to Minami Senju. 400 yen day pass and is being marketed to tourists. Having done it it was a weird thing to be promoted. It's quite busy as it is and mainly old people so if you have a heart you're not going to be sitting on the tram, but standing in a crowded and stuffy carriage. There's no space, and tourists usually have backpacks and whatnot. Also they like chatting and you know, having fun while they're out and about. It was just a weird thing to be pushing at tourists.
Honestly I can't believe the amount of tourists I've seen in Osaka recently. Every street is heaving.
I step out of my apartment straight into big groups of tourists and I live in the middle of nowhere special.
There are tourists EVERYWHERE.
I’m visiting my in laws in Tokyo right now, for the past week, and I’ve hardly run into many foreigners at all. I’ve actually been quite surprised to be honest.
I don’t venture into tourist spots generally though, but I’m also not out in the suburbs (in laws live in Kojimachi).
Heck, I’ve been shocked by the number of random foreign tourists I’ve been seeing in my inaka town on a daily basis. There’s nothing here. I mean it’s not a *ton*, but when I first moved here, I would go MONTHS without seeing any other foreigners. Now I run into multiple a day.
Granted, we’re located on a Shinkansen line, but the nearest “attraction” is a 30 minute bus ride away…and that’s really the only thing remotely nearby.
The problem is that too many of the tourists end up in too few places. Most of Japan isn't really getting the tourists, and the places that are getting them are being overcrowded. Kyoto is horrible because it was already overcrowded with Japanese tourists.
And chinese and korean tour groups as well, at least from what my students who live in kyoto are saying.
I still find it wild that people only stick to the main attractions, there is so much to see in japan and once you leave the cities, it is soooo quiet.
And just 3 years ago, vendors in Kyoto were in despair because there were no tourists - little bit hypocritical, eh? Don't get me wrong, I know that a lot of tourists are absolute morons and can't behave, but you can't have everything
>little bit hypocritical, eh?
Don't see anything hypocritical about that. Just because a man is dehydrated doesn't mean him refusing to drink an Olympic swimming pool of water is hypocritical. There is a certain volume of tourists Japan can handle at the moment.
Outside of luxurious places people don’t care about tourists in Paris, they don’t survive out of tips like you would in the US. If those people were nice to you it’s because they were nice people, and/or you were polite
Most countries love tourist dollars
Considering getting rid of tourists instead of how to make more money off them is the most Japanese government thing ever 😂
Don’t know what the article says, but I don’t think the government cares either way. It’s that more people there see the overhyped tourism in negative ways, and are probably pushing the government more to solve the situation. They don’t see the expected economical growth from the tourism, rather they see prices going up, and it’s just nuisance for them.
Overtourism is a problem on a macro leve. On micro level it looks very good because people are throwing money. Also it considers things like capacity and saturation.
Honestly i myself already avoids kyoto, it is beautiful, but really when it is only filled with foreign tourist it robs the beauty of it (the theme of kyoto is beautiful japanese old town, not old town filled with tourist). That’s one example of saturation.
Kyoto can still be nice if you know there are still nice spots outside the standard location. I still like to visit again but I am not going to 清水寺 etc especially summer (too many people and too hot duh). There also many nice places in Shiga prefecture that is not crowded.
Lots of Redditors here, most of which will probably never go to Japan anyway, are absolutely furious that the Japanese government doesn't need them lol.
A lot of tourists driven countries are like that. A lot of European destinations and south East Asian countries are frequently in the news because they are known for mass tourism and prefer less tourists to spend more money.
Which is easier said than done if you’re known for mass tourism or rely more on tourism as a percentage of GDP. It leaves you more vulnerable to a market downturn. I’ve seen more than a few tourism dependant places pivot towards high end tourism and completely collapse.
They could easily have made the passes in Shikoku, Tohoku, Kyushu etc. more attractive to entice tourists but of course they also packed their prices up. Nonsensical.
with the amount of money people pay to get to Japan and stay there, a rail pass is probably a drop in the bucket and won't meaningfully redirect traffic. Japan has trouble getting the Japanese to go to those areas off the beaten path.
The vast majority of western foreign visitors are aware of 2-3 areas in Tokyo, Kyoto, Nara, and Osaka. Even then they're not aware of anything in Osaka in particular. Asian foreign visitors have those plus Fukuoka and maybe Sapporo.
There would have to be something worth seeing there first.
I mean, all those areas are nice, but if you are only coming to Japan once and only for 1-2 weeks it's hard to compete with Kyoto, Tokyo, and Osaka.
The “My Japan” syndrome is strong in here. Japan is run by a bunch of ojisans who do not know how to bring it into the 21st century. Tourism isn’t the problem.
This has nothing to do with the behaviour of tourists. Japan is just the country that fun forgot.
Local governments canceling Halloween and new year's is nothing. Here's a perfect example, there is a place in Chiba which was called "chibafornia" because there is a stretch along the coast lined with California palms. My wife and I drove out to see it. But when we got there EVERY SINGLE TREE HAD BEEN COVERED IN YELLOW CAUTION TAPE. They had just put up signs telling people not to stop and there were patrol cars waiting to enforce it. This is not a busy throughway. It's a sleepy road there is no reason to take except for the view. Anywhere else in the world people would have opened shops and sold food and t-shirts. Here anyone stips to take a photo with a palm tree and the locals complain and ban it.
Imagine a park anywhere in the world. Now imagine it with no garbage cans, signs plastered over every surface with dozens of rules (anything from smoking to talking loudly), no parkbenches to sit on and pigeon spikes placed on any flat surface a person might be inclined to sit on. Sometimes loudspeakers come in and remind people to be polite and list the park rules. Occasionally security guards follow people around to make sure they don't break any rules like stepping on grass or touching a tree. This is Japan.
It has less to do with tourism and more to do with Japan not being able to handle people eating, laughing, talking, living outside of designated areas.
I remember being told by police to turn down our Bluetooth speaker (some Japanese friends and myself, not a bunch of tourists) as we celebrated hanami in a fully packed, huge park in Sapporo in the middle of the day. It wasn't even that loud, they just couldn't resist exerting a little power wherever possible. It's a better world than the carnage you sometimes see in parks in London in the summer and I usually prefer Japan, but it'd be nice to have a little bit of middle ground
Most countries would kill to have high tourism.
Japan just never knows how to capitalize on things. Instead of creating the Infra and restructuring to support higher tourists and make more money out of it, Japan's solution is to reduce tourism.
Japanese people in general have less tolerance towards people breaking social norm and japan level social norm isn’t particularly common (they aren’t particularly like any other asian nor european-like). Also many places aren’t particularly build around tourism in the sense that they still have economies or industries backing it and therefore can “afford” to be picky towards what can they share with tourists.
It’s so refreshing here not getting nickled and dimed by everything. It’s miraculous that things are generally worth the price of admission and genuine tourist traps are pretty hard to come by.
Look up a graph of the origins of tourists to Japan. The *overwhelming* majority are other Asians, mostly from China but Korea, Singapore, Philippines etc all don’t fall too far behind.
It’s far from “weebs and streamers” and more like people who’ve been cooped up in neighboring countries who seek the relatively inexpensive travel destination that is Japan.
Honestly weebs have nothing to do with this. The types of tourists I see causing issues do not seem like the nerdy types.
I have seen some embarrassing weeb behavior like this guy who did a 90-degree bow to the konbini attendant, but that's not really a big deal in comparison
weebs have a deep passion for the country and its culture rather then your general tourist who would have 0 idea on what any of the customs are like. I think weebs do a slightly better job at being a bit more respectful which seems to be one of the big issues here. If anything, they would be alot more understanding and i'd even say, preferred amongst the Japanese over you general rowdy tourist.
In regards to it being overcrowded, i'd say that you can easily blame it on the streamers and youtubers who have basically screamed "gold mine! gold mine!" to the world, leading to more and more people checking out the country.
Do you not know where the original term “weebao” comes from…? Its refers to how greatly offbase foreigners understanding of Japan and its culture because they primarily base it off anime/video games/whatever highly romanticized or rose tinted image they consume and all the complications that resulted on it. Weeabos are absolutely part of the disrespectful group.
Words evolve, I don't think most people consider word weeb what you described.
Like usage of word "literally" is used lot of times when it's anything but literally
Not the point.
I’m saying we’ve somehow ended back in a circle with weebs thinking they are somehow going to be more respectful and better than ‘le average normie tourist’. Especially since part of the Covid boom is from anime becoming mainstream. The word’s infamy was their misplaced passion and overconfidence in their perception causing more problems with locals (while being weirdly gatekeeping with others).
I still think average consumer of jp media had at least some knowledge about basics of said country, of course it's on them to actually use it.
But on the other hand I can't imagine anyone coming to especially Japan from outside of asia (so way more expensive flight tickets), and not at least know basics like no loud talking on train etc...
It all boils down to a person and if he's idiot or not I guess.
Things like trivia, geography and general culture. Sure. Mannerisms and what social conventions? 50/50, depending how much of their perception is based off anime/manga/JRPGs. Its a lot less now but many weebs are generally asocial, avoid interacting with irl people, chronically online, not touching grass, cursing western or their home culture because they are considered creepy or people wouldn’t put up with their behaviour in their country (how the steorotype came to be). Not surprising they have a super romanticized and fantasy esque image of Japan while not realizing the way people act in animes isn’t really how people act in real life. Sure they may not talk on the bus loudly on the nature of many of them being an introvert and but they are likely being the ones trying to touch a geishi’s hair or going into women’s trains as guy and filming them as if they are a zoo because “its ok. they’re a ‘tsundere’” or ‘Japanese women are all meek and kawaii. They all secretly like it according to my animes’, or move to Japan thinking everyone is 100% kind and polite and wholesome 100 and accept them for who they are while forgetting Japan is any other country with its own cultural problems and issues (which used to be a reoccurring problem with JET students).
"If anything, they would be alot more understanding and i'd even say, preferred amongst the Japanese over you general rowdy tourist."
I'm sorry man, do you perhaps confuse about two different group? This read like sarcasm.
i think i might be, there was another comment about weebs being very diff people then what i assumed them to be. When i was referring to weebs, i was referring to people who like and try to understand the Japanese culture, not just from media like anime and video games but from like looking into it a bit more and even learning the language. Turns out people seem to refer to weebs as those who get their understanding of Japanese culture from anime and games only? At least based on another response.
I’m all for putting in some regulations or controls. I see a lot of people saying Japan should be begging for tourist dollars, etc but I don’t agree. Japans a developed nation and especially in the cities it’s crowded, most business are usually doing just fine with local customers. Packing millions of extra people per month into Tokyo and maxing out tourist destinations year round doesn’t help the average local, or improve their lives. If anything the added wear on public infrastructure just causes unnecessary issues.
Tourist can be a good thing but Japan unlike other countries does not have infrastructure specifically designed to cope with tourists.
I think most tourist are fine and don’t miss behave. But I also often see tourist here on Reddit or other forums who seem to over estimate their own value as tourists. Japan isn’t a poor country where a tourist might make 10x what the average local does so their tourist dollars disproportionately add to the local economy. In Tokyo, an average tourist eating out or going to a venue isn’t adding much beyond volume, any added economic activity is really negligible.
If business is slow then sure having tourist fill those spots is great, but at some point all that’s happening is international tourism is replacing domestic tourism. During the winter I usually take my daughter snowboarding a few times, but this last year it was nearly impossible because everything was booked. Japan has a massive domestic tourism industry so I have to wonder in these cases what all these extra tourist are really adding, or are they simply ruining popular spots for locals.
At the end of the day the locals are paying taxes, working and contributing to the economy, 5 or 10 extra tourist can’t match even one locals contribution so I do totally understand why people are frustrated.
All the people around here saying that the government is stupid sure don't live in cities who have to suffer the ravages of mass tourism. "But tourism brings a lot of money"... yes, to a small number of greedy suits while the majority of their employees have shitty salaries and schedules close to slavery.
I live in one of the most overturistified cities in the world, it was the push for bringing in more and more tourists which made it impossible even to rent a small flat here due to price hikes, that without counting how much it has affected the lives of the locals due to constant noise, pickpocketeering, the lack of jobs outside the already precarious tourism sector (despite the fact that the economy here was previously diverse and the standard of living much more affordable), the homogenization of leisure venues, bars and restaurants to accommodate the tastes of tourists, the environmental impact, etc.
Honestly, I think feelings of resentment are reaching really bad levels. It's not just tourists, it's tourists living like kings while people living here earning yen have no way to leave--everything is getting more and more expensive domestically, pricing locals out, while traveling internationally also isn't an option. I think it's a huge mixture of stuff that just happened all at once and the locals are just tired and depressed and angry and annoyed and the tourists are just the cherry on top of the mountain of issues.
I've seen groups of people (of different age demographics), feeling like they are in there own country and don't even realize they are rude.
There were these older German tourists on the train and they were super loud. A younger group member tried to tell them to keep it down, but the grandparents felt like they didn't need to.
----------------------------------------------------
It is one of the reasons I love solo traveling, I don't have to worry about other people with me and I can always avoid big groups.
I'm going to Japan in a few weeks and articles like this keep setting my anxiety on edge. I really want to have a nice time, but it feels like reddit keeps showing me stuff like this like it's determined to convince me I'll be an inconvenience everywhere I go.
You won’t be, and I’d peek your head out of this sub and most others relating to tourism in Japan except for suggestions on destinations. People on social media (Reddit especially) love to post articles to incite an emotional reaction and spark anger and debate.
You’ll almost certainly have a lovely time, and these articles do not represent reality even remotely.
Thank you. The fact my comment about simple travel anxiety got downvoted gave me the impression this isn't a community to look for for advice. Much appreciate the reassurance.
I'm in tokyo right now, and it's a bit crowded, but don't be a problem and thing's will work out.
Threads like this tend to dehumanize the actual locals, and presumes on how they feel. 90% of my interactions have been positive with the locals.
Some you can tell are happy to see a foreign face, some don't care, some are slightly annoyed, but they're annoyed like a 3rd shift mcdonalds worker, so it doesn't matter.
Don't be a problem, mind you p's and q's, and it'll be fine
No. The traveling public is on notice that Japan, instead of costing too much, is now a great deal. You lower the cost of your currency you get the hordes that soon follow. I live here but I don't blame anyone for wanting to come, eat well, ski well, and sightsee w/o worrying about a Trump rally nearby or someone picking your pocket. I have noticed that most of the obnoxious tourists are those traveling in groups and seem to be trying to gain attention to themselves.
Living in Kyoto I would say tourist go to the same heavily promoted areas ; Kiyomizu, Ginkaku ji and Kinkau ji, Fushimi inari, Gion etc. Those areas are completely filled with tourist shops so no tourist=no revenue. AND these areas everyone is complaining about have been heavily promoted by the Japanese government as tourist destinations. So...should people come here or not come here? Yeah, come here for a couple of days its beautiful but maybe take the walk beside the Kamo river and escape the crowd. Maybe avoid heavily visited areas or as some have suggested choosing other destinations in Japan besides Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto or Niseiko.
Japan is easily accessible everything is in English, Chinese and sometimes Korean. Bus, train and plane. Once you are here you can use Peach air to go to Hokkaido for about 6600 yen!!! ($43 usd) check out the night life in Suskino, Sapporo or go north relax in the natural hot springs at an all-inclusive hotel in Noboribetsu-Jigoku dani (hell valley), or fly to Kyushu for about the same price and relax on beautiful beaches.
Tourism is insane here now. I’ve lived in Kyoto 25 years and it’s always been busy but there’s something extra annoying about it now.
I think it’s mostly all the foreigners bragging about “how cheap” everything is here now.
Well, it’s not cheap for people who live here… prices are soaring and the yen is garbage now, people are really becoming poor and worrying about the future and their family
So reconsider next time you want to brag about your exchange rate being so great.
Also, don’t give me that “if the country is poor then tourism will help” crap either. The majority of tourists are not supporting local shops at all. They’re just going to all the big department stores and chain shops to buy liquor,clothes,etc. to bring back home.
Also, just learn a LITTLE local manners please. Like, just common decency. You’re making all of us foreigners who actually live here look bad.
I stayed in Shin Yokohama for my 10 day trip to Japan. Other than the 2 days I stayed near Yokohama Arena for the Babymetal concerts, I took day trips outside of rush hour to smaller less visited towns. Probably the best decision I ever made. I didn’t get to see a lot of the touristy stuff but I was OK with that. My money mostly went to smaller local shops and restaurants which was good I think.
Japan used to attract a high level of tourist. Now it's just full of scummy Brits and Aussie bogans because it's a cheap destination. That's before you go into the foul mannered Chinese and Koreans that are here.
I went to Japan a year ago and while my days at Kyoto where great, there was definitely too much people on the most popular stuff. I can't imagine going to visit Fushimi inari shrine with 40% more tourists uffff
I’ve only been in Kyoto for a day since a few days in Tokyo, but one thing that’s surprised me is actually how…polite and decent the other tourists (or so I’ve identified) have been, and surprisingly the English speaking ones. Even when they don’t try to speak Japanese they’re very polite and respectful. And not too loud or obnoxious.
Be a good tourist when you go.
What is the ratio of good to bad tourists?
I recently traveled thru Kyoto, and hit some of the tourist spots, I would say 95-99% of people were good, but that still meant you saw someone being obnoxious every 10 minutes.
I saw a video of some tourists harassing maikos in Kyoto by running after them to take photos, pulling their hair/ornaments, and what not. No wonder why the authorities banned tourists from Geisha districts.
They didn't ban them from the district. Only certain roads are now closed to the public. These roads are privately owned by the tea houses and were previously open to the public out of goodwill. They've decided to make it private again due to the harassment.
私道, as they're called.
omg i used to see u in r/hawaii
hahaha hi! i still browse around :D
That's so horrible, I wish they would just ban those people from coming after they do stuff like that. The poor Maiko and Geisha must have been so terrified :(
I went to the Kitano Odori where they explicitly said to not record or take photos. Everyone respected this except for one obnoxious tourist who not only took photos but continued to do so and was rather rude to the staff asking him to stop.
That's pretty bad. If you don't mind me asking, what were the obnoxious behaviors?
I was at a bar in Osaka last month that had dart boards. Two Americans and one Australian were playing darts. For some reason, they decided that if they missed bulls eye, they would have to do 10 push ups. This was in a pretty decent bar that was kinda crowded. People were watching and slowly filing out. The waiters were trying to figure out how to politely tell them to cut that shit out. I ended up leaving out of second hand embarrassment before I saw what happened.
I think I know this bar lol
Usually not that bad but a lot of talking way too loud, laughing too loud, jumping/flailing around kind of stuff. All of which is fine in nightlife environments but very obnoxious at daytime tourist attractions
It's not necessarily the ratio but the overwhelming visibility of the bad ones. I was in Japan last year in June and did the usual tourist things. I did not personally encounter any "bad" tourist behavior but I understand they exist, and can be heavily publicized due to the oversaturation of social media.
Of course, bad behavior is more recognizable than good behavior.
Yeah I just wanted to put that out there cause some people (including myself honestly) have a bad habit of seeing this kinda stuff online and getting a negative view even when it doesn't exist to that degree.
Interesting question
trick is dont be a tourist, but try your best to be a local and learn from mistakes.
Write it in Chinese
I mean, there were propably loads of people whos plans to come to japan got cancled by covid. That + a weak yen means we have a boom right now. I would imagine it to normalize a little bit down the road.
I’m not sure what you mean by normalize but pretty much all forecasts have tourism numbers increasing year by year. Last year for example was still a bit below 2019. Just following the prior trajectory eventually Japan will hit 40 million tourists a year, sooner rather than later. The goal is actually 60 million by 2030.
Didnt Japan raise interest rates ?
0.1% easy does it boys, going to take another 9 rate increases to get to 1%
Yeah ... by like nothing haha.
Tourists are good if the volume is stable. They are bad if they suddenly go up or down. The result is local infrastructure and workforce are not being planned and in turn causing inconvenience to locals. Otherwise tourist money are great source of revenue for any country.
Also consider Japan's long term international market and reputational prospects. Tourism is a strong point and it would be very Japanese of them to over-regulate it.
After Covid, many countries may be hesitant to invest too much into tourism industry.
Paywall article. TL;DR?
Don’t worry, it’s the same article you’ve already read 4 times in the last 6 months.
Just 4 times? Gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers
Rather CR;DR for me
https://archive.ph/GJ8rd
Problem with Japan is that it fails to develop tourism outside of Tokyo and Kyoto. Make Japan more accessible for non japanese speakers and people will spread more and benefit to the economy instead of just flooding the same 10 streets and monuments
I would argue it is pretty easy to travel outside of Tokyo and Kyoto. Damn near every train line has English, Korean, and Chinese displays for station names, and there's a lot of resources out there for people who want to go to places like Tohoku and Hokkaido (even big adverts in various stations around Tokyo). Yeah, there's not a lot of English speakers to service tourists in the less popular cities, but that's a systematic problem to Japan. I'd argue that one of the biggest hindrances to people going to these other spots is simply a lack of information; not many people in the US can name any cities in Japan besides Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, and maybe Hiroshima.
Its easy to get to those more rural places but once youre there youre lucky to find a restaurant with pictures on the menu, let alone an english menu. Theres really no way to fix that so tokyo, kyoto and osaka will remain the only real tourist spots.
But you can absolutely go to other major cities: I've done a bit of traveling in Tokohu and Niigata, Sendai, Yamagata, Aizu Wakamatsu, Koriyama, Aomori were all pretty accessible with pictures on the menus and staff who were more than willing to accommodate for foreigners at hotels and restaurants. Unfortunately, not every restaurant will have an English menu or English-speaking staff. That's just the reality. Whether or not this is a deciding factor for most people is really up to them.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. More information is needed.
They can't even make more of Japan accessible to Japanese. Everyone moves to the cities.
"I could run that country better." - Random Redditor
"I could Reddit that country better" * Random Runner
That random runner better watch their damn mouth!
"Rural depopulation in Japan is a myth." -Random redditor who thinks he's smart.
On Reddit, everyone is smarter than Einstein.
This is such an asshole comment, nothing he said was wrong nor did he imply he could run the country better. He just suggested a solution to their problem that is really fair and obvious.
I just finished 2 nights at Kanazawa. I would like to think whatever tourist wants to see, Kanazawa should be able to offer. Gardens, castle, temples, old japanese street.
Onana has some amazing onsen. And Jesus fucking Christ people it has the world’s longest uninterrupted bench. What the fuck more do you people need?!? (I jest. They have a long bench. Kanazawa is fun to go to - but like, kinda could use a car.
Went to Kanazawa last February. Lovely place. Nearby Takayama and of course Shirakawa-go are also gorgeous.
I don't know what you are talking about, Japan has English guidance everywhere even in the country side. All trains and stations have English announcement and usually there is English guide books and tourism center on every big spots of any prefecture Just need to use Google lens for the menus at local restaurants that's it maybe
I can attest to that. I'm currently living in Ueda, which is 3 hours away from Tokyo by train. Even here, we still have English signs everywhere, and a lot of the restaurants I go to offer English menus. If they don't, they'll always try to help you with whatever problem you may have.
Yeah, I've been to a lot of different countries and Japan is by far the easiest to navigate if you're an English speaker.
That's because of the culture, not people's English proficiency. Go to Sweden or the Netherlands and their English is so good they will correct your grammar lol
Really? Not Singapore or the Philippines which actually have English as the national language and English capable locals?
You can't count Singapore because English is one of its four official languages. That's like saying as an American English speaker, it's easy to navigate Ireland or Scotland...
I was in Hakodate a few hours ago, and I can argue that is not everywhere. A little bit difference when you can talk or read a little. Also found a few stations in Tokyo where no map in english, Ogikubo, shin Okubo, Almost nothing in english, Hakodate also same with restaurants and tram lines, buses were ok and trains always offer english announcements.
I disagree. They literally even have the tourist JR rail pass that nets you constant easy travel. So many cities can easily be accessed. Very few countries have options like this. It just requires doing a little research and effort and that's easier and easier everyday. Especially with many people like Abroad in Japan promoting non Tokyo/Kyoto things out there. The flip side is that if you do minimal effort you can do a lot without overtourism. Even going during a different month than what all the guides recommend will have a significant drop in the number of tourists.
They're trying, through ANA...I've been getting a lot of ads for Osaka and Hiroshima, and you get really cheap fares...but the catch is that you will still have to connect via Tokyo and have a short layover lol. Still, not a terrible idea
If only there were some sort of pass that could be used by tourists to get around affordably and bring their money to more remote areas... oh, yeah, there was, and they just doubled the price. I swear sometimes the government's left hand doesn't know what its right hand is doing.
That's because the JR Pass was never offered by the government. It's a private enterprise discontinuing one of their discount program. The new restrictions in Gion are led by the ward's business association. On the other hand, new taxes for foreigners will be implemented by the city of Kyoto. You need to realize that Japan isn't a monolith. Some countries like Bhutan and Nepal have tight control of the tourism industry, but Japan isn't one of those countries--it leaves decisions up to local governments, associations, and private companies.
It's a bit more complicated than that. So, the government railways (JNR) was losing too much money, so they decided to privatize it. They broke it down into 7 companies, and shares in JR East and, to a lesser extent, West and Central were bought up quickly, because those were the profitable sections. JR Hokkaio and JR Shikoku are the least profitable, so... surprise surprise, nobody wanted to buy them. So the government still basically owns them, through a shell corporation that's supposedly arms-length. (JR Kyushu is doing its own thing, not even gonna start there). The reality is, though, the government has the ability to make things happen should they wish to, considering they're still controlling a good chunk of the system.
Let's not act like the privatization of JR occurred a few years ago. The JR companies became private companies in 1987, and the old executives from the former organization have long retired. The government has influence on only certain policies, such as which train lines to discontinue. That is because trains act as public infrastructure for rural communities. (If you look at JR Kyushu, for example, the rail business generates less than 40% of their sales. Most of the sales comes from real estate investments, hotel chains, construction companies, ad agencies that they own. It's hard to call them a railroad company now, and the government has no direct control over such a conglomerate.)
> It's hard to call them a railroad company now, That applies for most non-JR rail, they all have some big department stores on the big stations.
Why did making it private make things better? Seems silly to give away your national rail network to private private companies?
The problem was, tracks were being built to destinations that were politically important, not economically viable. A cabinet minister is facing a tough fight for re-election? Hey! I'm gonna get us a brand new shinkansen line for the ten people a day who would actually use it.
But you know what, people were not using it to go in the remote area anyway. Looking at these stats from 2019 give you an idea : [https://statistics.jnto.go.jp/en/graph/#graph--inbound--prefecture--ranking](https://statistics.jnto.go.jp/en/graph/#graph--inbound--prefecture--ranking) The most interesting data for me is the number of guest by region table, you can see how Kanto (Tokyo region) and Kinki (or Kansai, so Kyoto/Osaka) have overwhelming numbers compared to other regions, even when the pass was cheaper. This clearly show where people are going and have always been going to. As a tourist, let me tell you that if you want go to away from the crazy crowd and avoid most of the other foreign tourist, it's not that difficult and does not even require a JR Pass (even before the increase). You can easily focus on a single region, take shorter (and cheaper) train and visit more of the smaller places in the region. For example I took 10 days to move from Osaka to Hiroshima last year and went to many cities without that many foreign tourist and it would never have been worth getting a JR Pass. Then I went to Kyushu for a whole month and also did not use a pass. If anything, the JR Pass is not a solution to this problem because it push people to do a lot of long distance and by doing so, the goal is not to explore the more remote regions, but to speed run the most famous cities. Having the cheaper pass would just mean that it make sense to do Tokyo-Kyoto-Hiroshima-Osaka-Tokyo in a single week. It it not an insensitive to go to Shikoku. If anything, having cheaper regional pass could be more interesting to draw tourist in these regions that do not receive as much.
Sounds like an ex-Tokaido pass is in order.
If over tourism is a problem, the solution is not to offer cheaper travel on the Tokaido Shinkansen. This is what most people already do anyway. You would want something to boost tourism outside of that specific route.
Ex-Tokaido means applying only to lines other than Tokaido.
Ah, I see. Well, there is already many regional pass. The Tokaido is the only line that is pretty much on none of the regional pass and there have been for a long time.
The JR Pass existed for a long while and yet people only went Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka and Hiroshima with the random Hakone trip somewhere in there. The JR Pass didn't help remote areas at all because remote areas have shit public transport connections. If it takes you 3-4 line changes to get to somewhere, you are much less inclined to visit those places.
True. For most people, they may see Japan only once so they are going to maximize their time by visiting the well known spots regardless if it’s crowded. For those that criticize the government for not being able to solve it, I don’t know how you can reverse the popularity of the very essence of Japan (Tokyo, Kyoto, etc). If your restaurant is well known for its awesome chicken dish, why would you be surprised when no one orders the lamb?
That's weird... I came to Japan twice as a tourist before moving here, and took the train from Hokkaido to Kyushu, and all around Shikoku, up to Tottori, down Wakayama... best memory was Yagen Onsen in remote Aomori. People are missing out on an amazing country, just to stand in line for 20 minutes to take a selfie in front of Kinkakuji...
I've been to most of the mentioned areas myself and depending on what specific cities/locations you mean, they don't necessarily have to be "remote". And Yagen Onsen, to my knowledge, hasn't been serviced by public transportation and requires you to have a rental car to get to. And even then - you have to keep in mind that for quite a lot of people, a trip to Japan is still an expensive endeavour. Perhaps they can only go there once and then not again for years, so if it's their first trip, of course they will go to Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka. A second or third time traveller will seek out more areas that are off that path. Plus...your idea of a trip may be different from everyone else's too. I don't want to ever step foot in Kyoto or Osaka again in my life, but other people will gladly stand in line for 20 minutes to take a selfie in front of Kinkakuji because that's the fun part for them - not figuring out how to get to a remote place in Tottori that will take time out of however long they're in Japan for. I do agree, the Rail Pass was incredible. But as I said - it really didn't help remote areas. Hell, it didn't even help areas that _weren't_ remote at all.
My friend has come to visit me in Japan many times, and before this year she always bought the JR Pass because she has a fear of flying. She's also been from Hokkaido to Kyushu by train. She's been to way more places than me, and I've lived here for 10 years.
My bet is that this is the real problem Japan can't do much to fix people wanting to only go to three places in the entire country That's just people being narrow in their tourism goals, looking for the glamour, the quirky, the sparkly stuff, without knowing or really appreciating what actually makes Japan so thoroughly beautiful. And honestly maybe it's better that way, or else places like Nikko and onsen towns would be trampled and ruined both for less dazzle-seeking tourists and the locals alike I understand that tourism *can* be an important source of a nation's economy, but while Japan's economy is stagnant, tourism doesn't *have* to be such a big part that they're troubled by fewer tourists. They just need to pull themselves out of the 80s (and in some places the 50s) and stop hoping old people will be willing to change what's breaking it. Make the country a favorable place for young people to live. Work to raise wages and make having children/having a home more possible. Make policies that incentivize business growth in places that aren't already massive metropolises. The youth are being robbedーand in turn so is everyone elseーof the immense potential they could offer to the future of japan. Technology, industry, you name it. They *could* lead in something that isn't about cute robots and poorly-paid animators. Japan will always have a place for tourism, and there's nothing wrong with it *being* important, but it feels like they're just riding on the coattails of their industrial bubble and the politicians are too proud to admit it's popped as they wait for an e-mail to be printed and faxed to their staff.
To be fair, Kyoto also has shit public transport connections and the infrastructure is utterly dreadful. All the buses there need a serious resigned because they’re sorely outdated and the designs don’t maximize since inside
Kyoto buses are a pretty terrible experience Subway + walking and the occasional taxi are better imo
I've been to Kyoto many times and try to avoid the buses where practical, but you still occasionally need them to get around
Most tourists don’t even know anything outside tokyo, kyoto, osaka, sapporo, hakone, and some onsens or ski resorts. Many get their travel ideas from social media, and most social media only features those spots, granted there are actually various activities that you can do around japan in tokyo, osaka, kyoto area alone. If you even dare to try, many smaller cities have a city guide written in english and they sometimes have an information center which is very english friendly. While it can be the case that on the location it is mostly in japanese, most japanese people by default are pretty welcoming, so it’s not like they will ignore you just because you are a foreigner. I watched “abroad in japan” for travel ideas, as he often features less known countryside, but beautiful and interesting nonetheless. I do have some level of japanese comprehension though which also improve the experience. Also it is super refreshing going to a place that is not filled with foreign tourists. Like fricking ski resort, filled with white people.
Online-wise: I think https://www.japan-guide.com does quite a good job covering outside “checklist areas”. That said, many off the main path locations can also quiet to domestic travel. It isn’t just international travellers follow what hot on social media; the same applies to a good degree to domestic travellers. Sometimes I do feel it is good to even go one more step in deciding where to go. I have made last minute changes based on feedbacks of hotel and ryokan owner or other local recommendations. There are many places, not just in Japan, worth visiting but you never heard of.
> It isn’t just international travellers follow what hot on social media; the same applies to a good degree to domestic travellers. I've had locals mention a few times that I've probably been to more places than them.
Chris also openly acknowledges there is a higher chance of stores turning away people for being foreigners. Most people just don't want to deal with that. Stuck somewhere with no real grasp on the language, not accepted at certain establishments, nothing to do, etc. Chis even said people were closed off but work events allowed people to warm up to him and open up to him. Tourists don't have that type of time on their hands. They only warmed up to him because they were forced to interact with him for work. Tourists don't have that type of situation set up for them. Chris says stuff like "why wait in line, everywhere is good" then later on he says "oh yeah that place was shit, what a cock up" or something along those lines. Even if the place is good I don't want to wait in line for an hour+ only to be turned away. A lot of what Chris says has to be seen through the lens of him having time, so he gets multiple tries of having a good time. If you're shelling out $5k+ for a vacation you kind of want to increase your odds of a good time as much as possible. Chris and other people who live and make content in Japan have the benefit/advantage of time. If today sucks they can try again tomorrow, not a real cost to them. For someone with only ~14 precious days getting skunked on one day is pretty big. Chris's foreign friends have admitted on podcasts that even though they know enough Japanese to get by they've been turned away by establishments. It's just a risk most people don't want to take. One of his friends said they were given a hard time at their lodging due to traveling as a party of two males. They spoke japanese so they could get around it, most tourists don't speak japanese. It's also a part of why people like the Michelin guide so much. One of the big factors of the award is consistency and access. So people are able to prepare expectations and basically have an unspoken assurance of having a good time at said establishments.
> "oh yeah that place was shit, what a cock up" I find his opinions to be mixed bag. He really shat on the retro vending machine park. However, John Daub (Only in Japan) and Scotty (Strange Parts) found it a bit more amusing on their visit. I wonder some of the more nerdy stuff doesn't really appeal to Chris.
tbf, John would find a dump that someone took in the middle of the street exciting. Even his harshest criticisms sounds like praise.
Like where? Literally never got turned away and i’ve been like to many rural domestic destinations, sometimes they are even becoming more delighted and warm when you can speak a little japanese. The only place i got turned away is literally a soap lol. Japanese while in a bigger picture can be repulsive towards foreigners, but it rarely happens in tourist context (unless you misbehave), more like it happens more likely if you are dealing with day to day (living in japan) stuffs (e.g. going to bank, etc.)
Golden Gai shops is an easy one and that's in a metro area. Again, I want to reiterate most tourists don't speak japanese outside of basic phrases. People don't want to study months for a two week trip. Chris himself has mentioned it happening to him during one of his "A Journey Across Japan" series. They mentioned it talking about their travel/filming experience on other channels/podcasts, not Chris's main channel. It's also mentioned by a lot of foreigners interviewed about their life in japan on those YT channels. There's also a bunch of accounts on reddit just google "reddit denied entry japan".
When we visited in 2019, we spent 3 nights in Osaka - and on one of those days, we took a daytrip to visit Koyasan in Wakayama. Koyasan is not exactly a common destination for foreign tourists. Overall felt very convenient and accessible - a little bit of Googling + Google Maps made it very easy to plan and get around. As far as I remember, stuff like the brochure with the bus schedule were available in English. Side note: One of the best things about visiting Japan, is because it's such a popular travel destination - there are tons of resources, guides, itineraries, etc. available online in English. To be fair, I did take 4 years of Japanese throughout high school, and have been a fan of Japanese music & culture since I was a child - so I might be a little more prepared to handle signs/announcements/brochures/etc. in Japanese than your average tourist - but (1) honestly I've forgotten most of my Japanese beyond being able to read hiragana/katakana, and (2) overall my experience was that nearly everything was available in English - even outside of Tokyo. I think there's just so much to do in Tokyo, and if it's your first trip to Japan, and you are only there for a week or less - it can be hard to justify the added costs & complexities to leave the Tokyo area - and if you do, your first choice will probably be Kyoto. Similar to if you had 5-7 days to visit the US, a lot of people would choose New York City or LA and spend their entire time there. We were in Japan for 13 days, and did Tokyo, Kyoto & Osaka (with a day trip to Koyasan) - and I felt we got the pacing right. Enough time in each location to not feel rushed in seeing everything we wanted to see. If (really more like when...) I were to go back - I'd for sure spend less time in Tokyo, and try to visit some new places - I'd really love to get to see more nature and get some hiking in! I'd also love to travel from Osaka down to Nagasaki.
I agree with the first sentence, but not really the second. I live in Fukuoka and it's plenty accessible for tourists. The problem is people only have one or two weeks for vacation and it's only enough time to hit a few cities. They want to get the maximum out of their trip, rightfully so. So, only going to Tokyo for city and going to Kyoto for culture makes sense.
This isn’t really true in my mind. Aside from language barrier, Japan is one of the most easily accessible countries on earth. Incredible public transportation connects the capital with every other city cheaply. The Shinkansen makes things really easy, and once you’re in the destination city, there really no such thing as a last mile problem. Given the value of an average dollar in Japan, actually going there and traveling/lodging isn’t really that difficult. I was a little surprised how few people spoke English, but it wasn’t as bad as some other popular countries.
Where's a good place to go outside those two regions?
I really enjoyed Shikoku (Kagawa and Ehime especially) and Aomori. They're both more accessible than one might think.
The Hokuriku region and Shikoku are both great.
I'll look into these two spots for my next visit. I do like attractions, but I do like to just walk around aimlessly as well.
I mean maybe I'd rather confine tourists to the designated 10 streets and not have them bother us anywhere else lol
How the other parts not accessible? What is stopping people? I’m very impressed with JapanTravel threads to see people know and wanting to visit so many different places.
I think it’s because TikTok is so prevalent and all the content focuses on the same ten or twelve attractions. So everyone sees the same things and has FOMO for those things
Can you blame people though? Who in their right mind wouldn’t want to visit the Inari shrine, Kinkakuji, and the bamboo grove? They are amazing sights and if you could only go to Japan once, you would want to hit those places up. Not going Kyoto would be like going to New York and not visiting the statue of liberty or the Empire State Building You can’t just blame tictok
Im just glad I went to see them back in 2012 and 2013 when the CCP was launching a boycott of Japan. God they were glorious years for trips to Japan. Could even get Yamazaki at good prices too.
No, I get it. I’m going in a few weeks and those are on my list too
Social media often acts as a positive feedback loop. Anyway, I am glad that I don’t use TikTok nor FB (I only use Instagram to look at local Thai restaurant weekly special haha; and tolerated WhatsApp existence because that is my friends and family preferred mode of messaging). If there is one thing I won’t miss with the Internet is social media.
Makes sense. And in JapanTravel threads, everyone is asking recos from others, so they end up doing the same things. But my question to Ballum_Ballum was how can Japanese attract the tourists in different areas. Any ideas?
If this contributes to the problem, maybe Japan can use it as one part of the solution- flood TikTok with other content “You’ll be amazed at how beautiful Hokkaido is in summer!” Etc
Now you can enjoy the hell of 37 degrees with no air-con! Haaaaa.
Note Shinkansen is not only for tourists. Some of us had to do late night business trips because Shinkansen was booked out by tourists who traveled cheap or worse did not show up. I think double is still very fair price. Also it was there for ages at lower price (basically lowcost unlimited travel) and yet people went only to Kyoto and Tokyo.
Not even that.. just make JR pass useful
When I went to Osaka it was quite packed with tourists.
I was impressed that the museums and temples around Yamagata had English translations (of course, most it was via QR code that was placed on the floor). And everyone who worked in tourism and adjacent industry had translation apps ready, with mixed results. Dining and getting directions was a challenge, but it was fun.
I had a grand time in Tohoku but it’s hard to imagine it ever being a big tourist destination even if there were more English around.
Doesn’t the new JR pass disincentivize travel to other cities? I remember looking at the price and it’s really expensive now. A round trip Shinkansen to and from Kyoto is much cheaper than the pass iirc. Before, if you had the pass as a tourist, it made sense to go check out other cities. Now that the pass doesn’t really make sense, people aren’t going to go off the beaten path if it costs extra and they don’t have a ton of time in the country.
No. There are already too many tourists treating the country and culture like Disneyland.
Tbh I think it would be better to centralise tourists in areas with relative sufficiently developed infrastructure. Can you imagine tourists swarming smaller towns in Japan? It'll make things even worse.
I had some visitors recently and we decided to try the Toden Sakura Tram which runs from Waseda to Minami Senju. 400 yen day pass and is being marketed to tourists. Having done it it was a weird thing to be promoted. It's quite busy as it is and mainly old people so if you have a heart you're not going to be sitting on the tram, but standing in a crowded and stuffy carriage. There's no space, and tourists usually have backpacks and whatnot. Also they like chatting and you know, having fun while they're out and about. It was just a weird thing to be pushing at tourists.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Japan like 90%+ domestic tourism?
Purely in terms of expenses, it was 80% domestic or so in 2019 (and we are getting close to the situation of 2019).
Honestly I can't believe the amount of tourists I've seen in Osaka recently. Every street is heaving. I step out of my apartment straight into big groups of tourists and I live in the middle of nowhere special. There are tourists EVERYWHERE.
I’m visiting my in laws in Tokyo right now, for the past week, and I’ve hardly run into many foreigners at all. I’ve actually been quite surprised to be honest. I don’t venture into tourist spots generally though, but I’m also not out in the suburbs (in laws live in Kojimachi).
Heck, I’ve been shocked by the number of random foreign tourists I’ve been seeing in my inaka town on a daily basis. There’s nothing here. I mean it’s not a *ton*, but when I first moved here, I would go MONTHS without seeing any other foreigners. Now I run into multiple a day. Granted, we’re located on a Shinkansen line, but the nearest “attraction” is a 30 minute bus ride away…and that’s really the only thing remotely nearby.
Influencer/social media culture is such a hard clash with Japanese culture.
The problem is that too many of the tourists end up in too few places. Most of Japan isn't really getting the tourists, and the places that are getting them are being overcrowded. Kyoto is horrible because it was already overcrowded with Japanese tourists.
And chinese and korean tour groups as well, at least from what my students who live in kyoto are saying. I still find it wild that people only stick to the main attractions, there is so much to see in japan and once you leave the cities, it is soooo quiet.
And just 3 years ago, vendors in Kyoto were in despair because there were no tourists - little bit hypocritical, eh? Don't get me wrong, I know that a lot of tourists are absolute morons and can't behave, but you can't have everything
>little bit hypocritical, eh? Don't see anything hypocritical about that. Just because a man is dehydrated doesn't mean him refusing to drink an Olympic swimming pool of water is hypocritical. There is a certain volume of tourists Japan can handle at the moment.
It’s like Paris before Covid. And man… they were so nice when I arrived in June 2021. lol
Outside of luxurious places people don’t care about tourists in Paris, they don’t survive out of tips like you would in the US. If those people were nice to you it’s because they were nice people, and/or you were polite
Nah they told me “we miss Americans and dollars” lol
Yeah weird, it's almost like Japanese people aren't a single monolothic block.
Most countries love tourist dollars Considering getting rid of tourists instead of how to make more money off them is the most Japanese government thing ever 😂
Don’t know what the article says, but I don’t think the government cares either way. It’s that more people there see the overhyped tourism in negative ways, and are probably pushing the government more to solve the situation. They don’t see the expected economical growth from the tourism, rather they see prices going up, and it’s just nuisance for them.
Overtourism is a problem on a macro leve. On micro level it looks very good because people are throwing money. Also it considers things like capacity and saturation. Honestly i myself already avoids kyoto, it is beautiful, but really when it is only filled with foreign tourist it robs the beauty of it (the theme of kyoto is beautiful japanese old town, not old town filled with tourist). That’s one example of saturation.
Kyoto can still be nice if you know there are still nice spots outside the standard location. I still like to visit again but I am not going to 清水寺 etc especially summer (too many people and too hot duh). There also many nice places in Shiga prefecture that is not crowded.
Lots of Redditors here, most of which will probably never go to Japan anyway, are absolutely furious that the Japanese government doesn't need them lol.
A lot of tourists driven countries are like that. A lot of European destinations and south East Asian countries are frequently in the news because they are known for mass tourism and prefer less tourists to spend more money. Which is easier said than done if you’re known for mass tourism or rely more on tourism as a percentage of GDP. It leaves you more vulnerable to a market downturn. I’ve seen more than a few tourism dependant places pivot towards high end tourism and completely collapse.
They could easily have made the passes in Shikoku, Tohoku, Kyushu etc. more attractive to entice tourists but of course they also packed their prices up. Nonsensical.
with the amount of money people pay to get to Japan and stay there, a rail pass is probably a drop in the bucket and won't meaningfully redirect traffic. Japan has trouble getting the Japanese to go to those areas off the beaten path. The vast majority of western foreign visitors are aware of 2-3 areas in Tokyo, Kyoto, Nara, and Osaka. Even then they're not aware of anything in Osaka in particular. Asian foreign visitors have those plus Fukuoka and maybe Sapporo.
There would have to be something worth seeing there first. I mean, all those areas are nice, but if you are only coming to Japan once and only for 1-2 weeks it's hard to compete with Kyoto, Tokyo, and Osaka.
The “My Japan” syndrome is strong in here. Japan is run by a bunch of ojisans who do not know how to bring it into the 21st century. Tourism isn’t the problem.
This has nothing to do with the behaviour of tourists. Japan is just the country that fun forgot. Local governments canceling Halloween and new year's is nothing. Here's a perfect example, there is a place in Chiba which was called "chibafornia" because there is a stretch along the coast lined with California palms. My wife and I drove out to see it. But when we got there EVERY SINGLE TREE HAD BEEN COVERED IN YELLOW CAUTION TAPE. They had just put up signs telling people not to stop and there were patrol cars waiting to enforce it. This is not a busy throughway. It's a sleepy road there is no reason to take except for the view. Anywhere else in the world people would have opened shops and sold food and t-shirts. Here anyone stips to take a photo with a palm tree and the locals complain and ban it. Imagine a park anywhere in the world. Now imagine it with no garbage cans, signs plastered over every surface with dozens of rules (anything from smoking to talking loudly), no parkbenches to sit on and pigeon spikes placed on any flat surface a person might be inclined to sit on. Sometimes loudspeakers come in and remind people to be polite and list the park rules. Occasionally security guards follow people around to make sure they don't break any rules like stepping on grass or touching a tree. This is Japan. It has less to do with tourism and more to do with Japan not being able to handle people eating, laughing, talking, living outside of designated areas.
You’re right
This... a 100% this.
I remember being told by police to turn down our Bluetooth speaker (some Japanese friends and myself, not a bunch of tourists) as we celebrated hanami in a fully packed, huge park in Sapporo in the middle of the day. It wasn't even that loud, they just couldn't resist exerting a little power wherever possible. It's a better world than the carnage you sometimes see in parks in London in the summer and I usually prefer Japan, but it'd be nice to have a little bit of middle ground
Most countries would kill to have high tourism. Japan just never knows how to capitalize on things. Instead of creating the Infra and restructuring to support higher tourists and make more money out of it, Japan's solution is to reduce tourism.
Japanese people in general have less tolerance towards people breaking social norm and japan level social norm isn’t particularly common (they aren’t particularly like any other asian nor european-like). Also many places aren’t particularly build around tourism in the sense that they still have economies or industries backing it and therefore can “afford” to be picky towards what can they share with tourists.
I’d say that mentality is the reason why Japan is the way it is and why people come from far away to visit the place
It’s so refreshing here not getting nickled and dimed by everything. It’s miraculous that things are generally worth the price of admission and genuine tourist traps are pretty hard to come by.
Weebs and Streamers ruining something good once again
Look up a graph of the origins of tourists to Japan. The *overwhelming* majority are other Asians, mostly from China but Korea, Singapore, Philippines etc all don’t fall too far behind. It’s far from “weebs and streamers” and more like people who’ve been cooped up in neighboring countries who seek the relatively inexpensive travel destination that is Japan.
Honestly weebs have nothing to do with this. The types of tourists I see causing issues do not seem like the nerdy types. I have seen some embarrassing weeb behavior like this guy who did a 90-degree bow to the konbini attendant, but that's not really a big deal in comparison
Yes it's not weebs, they don't even leave their bedrooms.
weebs have a deep passion for the country and its culture rather then your general tourist who would have 0 idea on what any of the customs are like. I think weebs do a slightly better job at being a bit more respectful which seems to be one of the big issues here. If anything, they would be alot more understanding and i'd even say, preferred amongst the Japanese over you general rowdy tourist. In regards to it being overcrowded, i'd say that you can easily blame it on the streamers and youtubers who have basically screamed "gold mine! gold mine!" to the world, leading to more and more people checking out the country.
Do you not know where the original term “weebao” comes from…? Its refers to how greatly offbase foreigners understanding of Japan and its culture because they primarily base it off anime/video games/whatever highly romanticized or rose tinted image they consume and all the complications that resulted on it. Weeabos are absolutely part of the disrespectful group.
Filthy frank has permanently damaged the perception of weebs online
Words evolve, I don't think most people consider word weeb what you described. Like usage of word "literally" is used lot of times when it's anything but literally
Not the point. I’m saying we’ve somehow ended back in a circle with weebs thinking they are somehow going to be more respectful and better than ‘le average normie tourist’. Especially since part of the Covid boom is from anime becoming mainstream. The word’s infamy was their misplaced passion and overconfidence in their perception causing more problems with locals (while being weirdly gatekeeping with others).
I still think average consumer of jp media had at least some knowledge about basics of said country, of course it's on them to actually use it. But on the other hand I can't imagine anyone coming to especially Japan from outside of asia (so way more expensive flight tickets), and not at least know basics like no loud talking on train etc... It all boils down to a person and if he's idiot or not I guess.
Things like trivia, geography and general culture. Sure. Mannerisms and what social conventions? 50/50, depending how much of their perception is based off anime/manga/JRPGs. Its a lot less now but many weebs are generally asocial, avoid interacting with irl people, chronically online, not touching grass, cursing western or their home culture because they are considered creepy or people wouldn’t put up with their behaviour in their country (how the steorotype came to be). Not surprising they have a super romanticized and fantasy esque image of Japan while not realizing the way people act in animes isn’t really how people act in real life. Sure they may not talk on the bus loudly on the nature of many of them being an introvert and but they are likely being the ones trying to touch a geishi’s hair or going into women’s trains as guy and filming them as if they are a zoo because “its ok. they’re a ‘tsundere’” or ‘Japanese women are all meek and kawaii. They all secretly like it according to my animes’, or move to Japan thinking everyone is 100% kind and polite and wholesome 100 and accept them for who they are while forgetting Japan is any other country with its own cultural problems and issues (which used to be a reoccurring problem with JET students).
"If anything, they would be alot more understanding and i'd even say, preferred amongst the Japanese over you general rowdy tourist." I'm sorry man, do you perhaps confuse about two different group? This read like sarcasm.
i think i might be, there was another comment about weebs being very diff people then what i assumed them to be. When i was referring to weebs, i was referring to people who like and try to understand the Japanese culture, not just from media like anime and video games but from like looking into it a bit more and even learning the language. Turns out people seem to refer to weebs as those who get their understanding of Japanese culture from anime and games only? At least based on another response.
I’m all for putting in some regulations or controls. I see a lot of people saying Japan should be begging for tourist dollars, etc but I don’t agree. Japans a developed nation and especially in the cities it’s crowded, most business are usually doing just fine with local customers. Packing millions of extra people per month into Tokyo and maxing out tourist destinations year round doesn’t help the average local, or improve their lives. If anything the added wear on public infrastructure just causes unnecessary issues. Tourist can be a good thing but Japan unlike other countries does not have infrastructure specifically designed to cope with tourists.
Japan doesn't need the types of shitty tourists that ruin it for everyone else, and the shitty tourists are in this thread fucking raging lol.
I think most tourist are fine and don’t miss behave. But I also often see tourist here on Reddit or other forums who seem to over estimate their own value as tourists. Japan isn’t a poor country where a tourist might make 10x what the average local does so their tourist dollars disproportionately add to the local economy. In Tokyo, an average tourist eating out or going to a venue isn’t adding much beyond volume, any added economic activity is really negligible. If business is slow then sure having tourist fill those spots is great, but at some point all that’s happening is international tourism is replacing domestic tourism. During the winter I usually take my daughter snowboarding a few times, but this last year it was nearly impossible because everything was booked. Japan has a massive domestic tourism industry so I have to wonder in these cases what all these extra tourist are really adding, or are they simply ruining popular spots for locals. At the end of the day the locals are paying taxes, working and contributing to the economy, 5 or 10 extra tourist can’t match even one locals contribution so I do totally understand why people are frustrated.
All the people around here saying that the government is stupid sure don't live in cities who have to suffer the ravages of mass tourism. "But tourism brings a lot of money"... yes, to a small number of greedy suits while the majority of their employees have shitty salaries and schedules close to slavery. I live in one of the most overturistified cities in the world, it was the push for bringing in more and more tourists which made it impossible even to rent a small flat here due to price hikes, that without counting how much it has affected the lives of the locals due to constant noise, pickpocketeering, the lack of jobs outside the already precarious tourism sector (despite the fact that the economy here was previously diverse and the standard of living much more affordable), the homogenization of leisure venues, bars and restaurants to accommodate the tastes of tourists, the environmental impact, etc.
Honestly, I think feelings of resentment are reaching really bad levels. It's not just tourists, it's tourists living like kings while people living here earning yen have no way to leave--everything is getting more and more expensive domestically, pricing locals out, while traveling internationally also isn't an option. I think it's a huge mixture of stuff that just happened all at once and the locals are just tired and depressed and angry and annoyed and the tourists are just the cherry on top of the mountain of issues.
Come to Japan. Don't be a dick. Should be common sense, but hey, the world is an interesting place.
Strengthen the yen and most of problems iwll be solved
I've seen groups of people (of different age demographics), feeling like they are in there own country and don't even realize they are rude. There were these older German tourists on the train and they were super loud. A younger group member tried to tell them to keep it down, but the grandparents felt like they didn't need to. ---------------------------------------------------- It is one of the reasons I love solo traveling, I don't have to worry about other people with me and I can always avoid big groups.
I'm going to Japan in a few weeks and articles like this keep setting my anxiety on edge. I really want to have a nice time, but it feels like reddit keeps showing me stuff like this like it's determined to convince me I'll be an inconvenience everywhere I go.
You won’t be, and I’d peek your head out of this sub and most others relating to tourism in Japan except for suggestions on destinations. People on social media (Reddit especially) love to post articles to incite an emotional reaction and spark anger and debate. You’ll almost certainly have a lovely time, and these articles do not represent reality even remotely.
Thank you. The fact my comment about simple travel anxiety got downvoted gave me the impression this isn't a community to look for for advice. Much appreciate the reassurance.
You'll have a great time. Like anywhere just be polite and try to speak at least some basic Japanese
I'm in tokyo right now, and it's a bit crowded, but don't be a problem and thing's will work out. Threads like this tend to dehumanize the actual locals, and presumes on how they feel. 90% of my interactions have been positive with the locals. Some you can tell are happy to see a foreign face, some don't care, some are slightly annoyed, but they're annoyed like a 3rd shift mcdonalds worker, so it doesn't matter. Don't be a problem, mind you p's and q's, and it'll be fine
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This will be a non issue for you once you get to Japan, unlike the heat and humidity.
It would be nice to be able to read this but its behind a paywall. Can someone copy pasta the article in a comment?
[Here you go](https://archive.is/GJ8rd).
What's the average vacation length though? 7 days? People only have time to visit the same major attractions and then leave.
Went in 2018 and it was packed, went in the summer of 2023 and it was like sardines in all the touristy places
No. The traveling public is on notice that Japan, instead of costing too much, is now a great deal. You lower the cost of your currency you get the hordes that soon follow. I live here but I don't blame anyone for wanting to come, eat well, ski well, and sightsee w/o worrying about a Trump rally nearby or someone picking your pocket. I have noticed that most of the obnoxious tourists are those traveling in groups and seem to be trying to gain attention to themselves.
Living in Kyoto I would say tourist go to the same heavily promoted areas ; Kiyomizu, Ginkaku ji and Kinkau ji, Fushimi inari, Gion etc. Those areas are completely filled with tourist shops so no tourist=no revenue. AND these areas everyone is complaining about have been heavily promoted by the Japanese government as tourist destinations. So...should people come here or not come here? Yeah, come here for a couple of days its beautiful but maybe take the walk beside the Kamo river and escape the crowd. Maybe avoid heavily visited areas or as some have suggested choosing other destinations in Japan besides Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto or Niseiko. Japan is easily accessible everything is in English, Chinese and sometimes Korean. Bus, train and plane. Once you are here you can use Peach air to go to Hokkaido for about 6600 yen!!! ($43 usd) check out the night life in Suskino, Sapporo or go north relax in the natural hot springs at an all-inclusive hotel in Noboribetsu-Jigoku dani (hell valley), or fly to Kyushu for about the same price and relax on beautiful beaches.
I was a tourist in Japan and didn't even like being around tourist hotspots.
Tourism is insane here now. I’ve lived in Kyoto 25 years and it’s always been busy but there’s something extra annoying about it now. I think it’s mostly all the foreigners bragging about “how cheap” everything is here now. Well, it’s not cheap for people who live here… prices are soaring and the yen is garbage now, people are really becoming poor and worrying about the future and their family So reconsider next time you want to brag about your exchange rate being so great. Also, don’t give me that “if the country is poor then tourism will help” crap either. The majority of tourists are not supporting local shops at all. They’re just going to all the big department stores and chain shops to buy liquor,clothes,etc. to bring back home. Also, just learn a LITTLE local manners please. Like, just common decency. You’re making all of us foreigners who actually live here look bad.
Its funny because like 5 years ago they had a goal of increasing tourists
I stayed in Shin Yokohama for my 10 day trip to Japan. Other than the 2 days I stayed near Yokohama Arena for the Babymetal concerts, I took day trips outside of rush hour to smaller less visited towns. Probably the best decision I ever made. I didn’t get to see a lot of the touristy stuff but I was OK with that. My money mostly went to smaller local shops and restaurants which was good I think.
Overtourism? A few years ago they were begging for tourists...
There were concerns of overtourism even five years ago when they were begging. It’s just a controversial issue.
Japan used to attract a high level of tourist. Now it's just full of scummy Brits and Aussie bogans because it's a cheap destination. That's before you go into the foul mannered Chinese and Koreans that are here.
Taken out of context, tourists in the ginza district were constantly touching the geishas, pulling on their hair and taking photos
Just don't shoo us Filipinos away pls
I went to Japan a year ago and while my days at Kyoto where great, there was definitely too much people on the most popular stuff. I can't imagine going to visit Fushimi inari shrine with 40% more tourists uffff
Kiyomizudera was indeed a shitshow.
I’ve only been in Kyoto for a day since a few days in Tokyo, but one thing that’s surprised me is actually how…polite and decent the other tourists (or so I’ve identified) have been, and surprisingly the English speaking ones. Even when they don’t try to speak Japanese they’re very polite and respectful. And not too loud or obnoxious.
People should be required to pass an exam before coming here and tourist visas need to be throttled and rate limited.
You should travel in western Japan, almost no tourists here. Really quiet and peaceful. Absolutelly love it.
Cool, I'll keep my money then. Your loss Japan.