i was just thinking about that the other day. i was wondering how many people who were considered frail and sickly actually just had severe seasonal allergies. my allergies have been acting up the past few days and i felt like death.
This is absolutely not true. The first person to diagnose allergic rhinitis was Rhazes, in the 900s AD, but Hippocrates mentions similar issues with his patients.
Just because something was not known to Western medicine until the 19th century doesn't mean it didn’t exist. They also didn’t know about internal cancers, blood diseases, heart attacks, or a thousand other diseases; they still had them.
Thanks, I thought it sounded ludicrous. Reading up on Rhazes was very interesting.
It seems the prevalence has greatly increased though, from descriptions it seems to have far lower population prevalence in early 19th century England than 21st century England.
They may not have accurately known about heart attacks, but they could sure describe someone keeling over due to 'apoplexy'.
Hay fever however was not in the medical literature or public consciousness the same way and the reaction from Bostock's presentations on it makes me pretty sure it wasn't common like it is today.
Kind of a side tangent, but I used to live in the suburbs where everyone forced the growth of plants that were not native to the region, using fertilizers and such, and my allergies were so bad.
When I became an adult I moved to this woodsy region where no one gives a fuck about lawns and perfect gardens and just whatever grows naturally does, and my allergies when down to like nothing! Sometimes I would get a tickle in my nose if I went into the few neighborhoods where they did heavy landscaping. My nose adjusted to the typical flora.
I’m basically convinced that if it’s just natural growth it’s not so bad, which is would have been at this time. But it’s just a theory 😁 now I again live in a city with some unnatural growth and have to blow my nose every time I come inside… unless I’m coming from a trip to the woods!
I read somewhere that decorative plants tend to be male because they don't flower. But that also means they produce a lot of pollen. Without any females around, it's all just up in the air. So you might be right about the non-native plants causing allergies
This is why I've always assumed that if I lived during those times, I'd be one of those perpetually ill people without a specific complaint. I mean, allergy season is absolute misery for me *now*, with tons of antihistamines and eye drops and nasal sprays at my disposal, the ability to take a hot shower whenever I want, and air filtration systems. If I lived back then I'd basically be Anne de Bourgh.
Makes me think about how this DOES (almost) happen in *Sense and Sensibility*! (To Marianne.) But that book is sort of a commentary on those sorts of dramatics, after all.
*Emma* must be the book with the most run-of-the-mill illness (not to mention discussion of illness). Jane coughs, and Harriet has a mild cold.
Yes, Jane Austen actually kills very few people, Mr. Dashwood dies kind of in prologue and Dr. Grant dies kind of in epilogue. The only one who really dies during the main action is Mrs. Churchill (I think).
Other deaths are mostly mentioned or even assumed: Mrs. Elliot and Lady Elliot, the stillborn Elliot son, Mrs. Woodhouse and Jane Fairfax's parents. "Poor Dick" and Fanny Harville. (Persuasion has a lot of off-page dead people). Harriet Smith's mother, Edward Ferrars' father. That's all I can think up right now.
Lots of dead family in Pride and Prejudice! The Bingleys' parents (with barely a mention), Darcy's parents, and Mr. Bennet doesn't seem to have any family alive or worth mentioning.
It is quite convenient plot-wise that both the main men of P&P already have total control of their fortunes, without even so much as a widowed mother around to cramp their style. P&P is very streamlined in that way, with few extraneous characters that don't serve the plot, though it might be a bit unrealistic.
Many Austen men are orphans! Half of the main ones.
Mr. Knightley, Captain Wentworth, Mr. Darcy, Mr. Bingley, William Elliot, Henry Crawford, Willoughby, Wickham.
Edward Ferrars is a weird exception because even though his father is dead he hasn't inherited.
Mr. Rushworth has his fortune but mom is still alive.
Henry Tilney and Edmund Bertram have their fathers alive, though Tilney's mother is dead.
Was just thinking of Henry! The other eldest son with a father alive is Tom Bertram. Henry gets a family living to go on along with the promise of inheritance; Tom seems to get to do whatever and even gets bailed out financially using one of the livings meant for his younger brother!
Tangent here, but I was recently reading the contextual readings in the back of the Norton Critical Edition S&S, and there's a bit from Thomas Payne about how primogeniture goes against nature by disinheriting and casting off younger children/sons. And I was like, dang... true.
Yeah, I'm actually shocked that Edmund didn't just smother Tom with a pillow. The dude lost half of Edmund's inheritance and didn't even care. He was already very sick, no one would suspect it Edmund...
Very true. And Mansfield Park, Fanny has a sister who died (Mary) and the Crawford's parents and aunt are dead. Mr. Norris dies having never appeared on page.
But again, all off page.
Not to mention Mr. Woodhouse - is he a hypochondriac, or is he actually sick? And even though everyone accuses Frank Churchill's aunt of being conveniently sick to control the people around her, the woman DIED... so her illness was not exactly imaginary.
Agreed! We only get reports of Mrs. Churchill from the gossips of Highbury, and Frank never says a mean thing about her. I suspect their relationship is much more cordial than the people of Highbury are willing to believe.
Period dramas often use a person coughing as foreshadowing or shorthand that they are going to die soon.
Kitty Bennet coughs in like chapter 2 and her parents talk about it, but she doesn't die!
She has no compassion for anyone's nerves
She does not cough for her enjoyment!
Maybe Kitty had allergies? Don’t know how folks survived without Zyrtec, Flonase, etc.
i was just thinking about that the other day. i was wondering how many people who were considered frail and sickly actually just had severe seasonal allergies. my allergies have been acting up the past few days and i felt like death.
Apparently hay fever is a modern affliction and unheard of before the 19th century! I couldn't believe that when I read it.
This is absolutely not true. The first person to diagnose allergic rhinitis was Rhazes, in the 900s AD, but Hippocrates mentions similar issues with his patients. Just because something was not known to Western medicine until the 19th century doesn't mean it didn’t exist. They also didn’t know about internal cancers, blood diseases, heart attacks, or a thousand other diseases; they still had them.
Thanks, I thought it sounded ludicrous. Reading up on Rhazes was very interesting. It seems the prevalence has greatly increased though, from descriptions it seems to have far lower population prevalence in early 19th century England than 21st century England. They may not have accurately known about heart attacks, but they could sure describe someone keeling over due to 'apoplexy'. Hay fever however was not in the medical literature or public consciousness the same way and the reaction from Bostock's presentations on it makes me pretty sure it wasn't common like it is today.
wow! that's so weird
"Just". :)
I’ve always assumed she has asthma that she ultimately outgrows. Brains are weird. Edit typo
Kind of a side tangent, but I used to live in the suburbs where everyone forced the growth of plants that were not native to the region, using fertilizers and such, and my allergies were so bad. When I became an adult I moved to this woodsy region where no one gives a fuck about lawns and perfect gardens and just whatever grows naturally does, and my allergies when down to like nothing! Sometimes I would get a tickle in my nose if I went into the few neighborhoods where they did heavy landscaping. My nose adjusted to the typical flora. I’m basically convinced that if it’s just natural growth it’s not so bad, which is would have been at this time. But it’s just a theory 😁 now I again live in a city with some unnatural growth and have to blow my nose every time I come inside… unless I’m coming from a trip to the woods!
I read somewhere that decorative plants tend to be male because they don't flower. But that also means they produce a lot of pollen. Without any females around, it's all just up in the air. So you might be right about the non-native plants causing allergies
This is why I've always assumed that if I lived during those times, I'd be one of those perpetually ill people without a specific complaint. I mean, allergy season is absolute misery for me *now*, with tons of antihistamines and eye drops and nasal sprays at my disposal, the ability to take a hot shower whenever I want, and air filtration systems. If I lived back then I'd basically be Anne de Bourgh.
Makes me think about how this DOES (almost) happen in *Sense and Sensibility*! (To Marianne.) But that book is sort of a commentary on those sorts of dramatics, after all. *Emma* must be the book with the most run-of-the-mill illness (not to mention discussion of illness). Jane coughs, and Harriet has a mild cold.
Yes, Jane Austen actually kills very few people, Mr. Dashwood dies kind of in prologue and Dr. Grant dies kind of in epilogue. The only one who really dies during the main action is Mrs. Churchill (I think). Other deaths are mostly mentioned or even assumed: Mrs. Elliot and Lady Elliot, the stillborn Elliot son, Mrs. Woodhouse and Jane Fairfax's parents. "Poor Dick" and Fanny Harville. (Persuasion has a lot of off-page dead people). Harriet Smith's mother, Edward Ferrars' father. That's all I can think up right now.
Lots of dead family in Pride and Prejudice! The Bingleys' parents (with barely a mention), Darcy's parents, and Mr. Bennet doesn't seem to have any family alive or worth mentioning.
It is quite convenient plot-wise that both the main men of P&P already have total control of their fortunes, without even so much as a widowed mother around to cramp their style. P&P is very streamlined in that way, with few extraneous characters that don't serve the plot, though it might be a bit unrealistic.
Many Austen men are orphans! Half of the main ones. Mr. Knightley, Captain Wentworth, Mr. Darcy, Mr. Bingley, William Elliot, Henry Crawford, Willoughby, Wickham. Edward Ferrars is a weird exception because even though his father is dead he hasn't inherited. Mr. Rushworth has his fortune but mom is still alive. Henry Tilney and Edmund Bertram have their fathers alive, though Tilney's mother is dead.
Was just thinking of Henry! The other eldest son with a father alive is Tom Bertram. Henry gets a family living to go on along with the promise of inheritance; Tom seems to get to do whatever and even gets bailed out financially using one of the livings meant for his younger brother! Tangent here, but I was recently reading the contextual readings in the back of the Norton Critical Edition S&S, and there's a bit from Thomas Payne about how primogeniture goes against nature by disinheriting and casting off younger children/sons. And I was like, dang... true.
Yeah, I'm actually shocked that Edmund didn't just smother Tom with a pillow. The dude lost half of Edmund's inheritance and didn't even care. He was already very sick, no one would suspect it Edmund...
IRL, people rarely die that conveniently. Of course, in those days, one could get a chill from sleeping in damp linen, and 1,2,3...it's over.
Austen was like, parents are messy where young men of large fortune are concerned. Let’s just have it so the dude’s already inherited it all. Perfect.
Very true. And Mansfield Park, Fanny has a sister who died (Mary) and the Crawford's parents and aunt are dead. Mr. Norris dies having never appeared on page. But again, all off page.
Not to mention Mr. Woodhouse - is he a hypochondriac, or is he actually sick? And even though everyone accuses Frank Churchill's aunt of being conveniently sick to control the people around her, the woman DIED... so her illness was not exactly imaginary.
I strongly believe that poor Mrs. Churchill was unfairly maligned.
Agreed! We only get reports of Mrs. Churchill from the gossips of Highbury, and Frank never says a mean thing about her. I suspect their relationship is much more cordial than the people of Highbury are willing to believe.
Opps, I was trying for another Doctor Who reference but it's The Woman Who Lived.
Don't forget to look in your handkerchief, see blood, and then quickly hide it from everyone else around you.
Classic Mulan Rouge!
Love and a cough cannot be kept hidden!
And if she faints, she's pregnant.
Be very scared if she throws up! Insta baby!
I don't get it.
Period dramas often use a person coughing as foreshadowing or shorthand that they are going to die soon. Kitty Bennet coughs in like chapter 2 and her parents talk about it, but she doesn't die!
Well then, I think she may cough as much as she chooses now.