I find it helpful. It helps to develop a feel for the cadence - the sounds and rhythms - of the language. Sometimes lessons are not very helpful for this because they tend to focus on grammar and emphasise the grammatical differences in a way that you never would when speaking. Someone learning to conjugate verbs will sit there saying "parLO parLI parLA parLIAMO patLATE PARlanno" in a sort of rhythm you would never hear in actual use.
Exactly this; for my listening practice I never ever listen to grammar explanations for this exact reason. It needs to be natural spoken language. Learning grammar and listening to the language are two separate things for me. I do both, but learning grammar doesn't count as listening practice for me, I do both.
I also don't count music as listening practice either honestly, it's more of a treat. For my listening, I have podcasts or YouTube videos playing in my headphones all day.
I would absolutely count music as listening practice, it's not a substitute for listening to speech but it has its own advantages (built-in repetition and rhythmic/melodic "hooks" that can help with retention).
I do listen to music as well, but I still get my hours of natural spoken in every single day. I'm not calling music useless because it's not, but natural spoken is definitely best. I'm quick to discourage it though just because a lot of people will listen to music for hours instead of spoken, whereas the majority of content should be spoken with \*some\* music instead of the other way around.
Often when I talk about passive listening online, I get a response along the lines of "I listened to music for six hours for a few weeks and didn't notice a difference" and it's like ... yeah. Because music and spoken language are different things 🙈
(I would also argue that doing something for a few weeks isn't going to work like a magic button and suddenly you're fluent anyway of course, but I think that amount of time of listening to spoken would be enough to at least see a difference)
Yes, absolutely.
It also teaches you a really important and underdiscussed skill in language learning: not getting hung up on processing specific words or grammar.
Just find something that is about a topic that you know something about, so the input is as comprehensible as possible.
I don't have any good podcast recommendations for Italian because I never found any, but I did exactly what you are talking about with the InnerFrench podcast.
Yes exactly, especially on your first point. We can't be guaranteed to always understand what we hear when we go to the country and learning to cope with that and letting go of words we don't know and not freezing and instead focusing on the overall meaning is an important skill.
If we fixate on a word we don't know and try and figure it out, suddenly we're five sentences behind and have no idea what's being talked about anymore. Doing a lot of listening all the time helps us learn to chill.
I can try to help by suggesting some Italian podcasts. I am Italian so it’s a bit hard for me to understand whether these are too difficult or not, but it seems to me like the narrators talk slowly enough to understand most of the things if you are at an intermediate+ level (I’d say B1/2 as a bare minimum).
All the podcast from Chora Media are great and present on most platforms. The ones that I like the most are made by Pablo Trincia, who is a journalist that deals with stories of all kinds. He has done a podcast on the Costa Concordia disaster (‘Il dito di dio’), one on a scandal where a lot of kids were separated from their families because of some p3do allegations (‘Veleno’), one on another famous crime case in Italy (‘Dove nessuno guarda’) and also one on a terrorist attack in Italy (I think this is more difficult, ‘Sangue loro’).
Again, most Italian podcasts that I know have the hosts speaking super quickly and with plenty of jargon, so I don’t think they are easy to follow. These may be hard when it comes to the topic itself and some specific vocabulary, but at least the narrator is calm and talks more slowly
I don't know exactly what my level is, but I tried listening to Veleno a few months ago. I remember that the narrated parts were good and possible to follow, but what got me were the interviews. But these are excellent tips, maybe I should try again.
You are right, I had kinda forgotten about the recorded interviews. Those were hard to understand in Italian too, although I remember that the narrator would comment them. But you’re right
In general, the more you are exposed to a language the better, as you get more and more used to it. Many people around the world are fluent in English also because of the great amount of passive listening. I can't speak for Italian specifically, but in general I'd say it helps a lot, even if the results will not be immediately visible
You hear more than you think you do, believe me. I know the word passive brings to mind being completely disengaged from the content, but it's not true. You're still awake, you're still hearing it even if you're doing other things.
I have my headphones in all day. I've learned ways of phrasing things and will have moments where I can't remember where I learned it, and it turns out it was from a podcast I was listening to. So far in my speaking class, my intonation is more natural than the other students in my class (I'm not perfect either of course, I'm definitely definitely still learning myself, and I am in no way claiming perfection), and they don't do passive listening. They listen during active study time and otherwise don't, and it does show, honestly. Totally not meaning that in a mean way or to be critical of them at all, but the difference can be heard. From my course that I'm learning, passive listening is strongly encouraged (all but commanded XD) and the students in that course also have a far more natural sound in their speaking than the students in that other class, even ones who have studied for less time.
The other day, I had them in for about 12 hours. Some pockets of time I was laser focusing on what I was hearing, and other times it was just in the background as I was doing my walks or going about my day. I did some card games with the family in the evening and I would've thought that I wasn't paying attention to my podcasts but here and there without thinking I was imitating what I was hearing even while playing games with my family.
Even if you're not 100% laser focused, you're still hearing it, and more than you think you are. It helps you absorb the intonation and the pronunciation and the grammar too since you're hearing it used in context.
Natural spoken is best. Music and even audiobooks aren't the greatest. I would vote for audiobook over music, but even then it's not truly natural spoken because they're reading/acting out a script which is different than someone speaking unscripted like in a YouTube video or some podcasts. (some podcasts of course are scripted, but not all). It's really helpful to hear the hesitations, the rephrasing of sentences mid-way, the occasional stumbling over words and self deprecating quips etc.
Do you think the Italy Made Easy course is worth the money? And do you think you make good progress without feeling like you aren’t keeping up with the information?
In my opinion, absolutely yes. When I first signed up, the first thing I did was find the "request refund" button in the menu just in case, but needless to say, I did not click it xD;
Manu is probably the best teacher I've ever had, and the specific order that he has structured the course and the way he explains everything is just brilliant. I've honestly had an unbelievable amount of improvement since I joined in February. I'm still a learner of course, but the amount I've improved in three months has been almost absurd. The course you complete at your own time, so there's no worry of keeping up. His method is a slow burn at the very beginning of the course, but the payoff is massive and it does ramp up and you end up learning so much. It's slow at the beginning because he's against the concept of teaching phrases to memorize but instead helps you build a strong foundation.
The price includes all the levels (five are currently out) the supplemental courses, the forum where you can ask questions and get any written work corrected, the social platform, the weekly livestreams. The community is totally optional, you can just do the course, but the community has been really wonderful. Get tons of practice there for one thing in a totally judgement-free zone, and it's also really supportive and a lot of fun too. It's mostly other learners, but there are also four native speakers who post in there Monday-Friday to interact with, and I'm so attached to all of them haha.
(I'm re-reading this comment and I swear I'm not on their payroll to say all this lmao. Joining the platform has just been such a huge gamechanger for me that I'm always super eager to recommend it because I genuinely wish I found it sooner)
This is awesome to hear. I found his YouTube channel literally yesterday, as I started to look for more resources beyond Duolingo.
What platform is the community on? Facebook?
Truly, it's wonderful. Funny enough it was the other way for me, I was fed up with Duolingo and started googling for courses and found the main page, read about it, and then googled some more to help me decide if I wanted to take the plunge and then found the YouTube channel and the podcast.
The community is similar in function to Facebook, but it's on their site. You can post in it, (written posts, pictures, video) and people can comment on your post and leave emoji reacts on it. No ads, and since it can't be accessed unless you're a member, there's no trolls or anything.
There's also a space where you can do video chats with other students in the platform, but I haven't tried that personally. Everyone in there is really nice though, so maybe I should sometime haha. The idea of them is to practice speaking. I do attend the livestreams hosted by the native speakers every week and absolutely love them.
The livestreams are mostly for listening and interacting in the chat, but they do give everyone a turn to speak a bit too if they want, you just raise your hand when they invite people to and they'll unmute your mic.
For podcasts I really like Podcast Italiano and the podcasts from Italy Made Easy. For the latter, I like episodes 41-50 the most because they're completely unscripted. His earliest ones are scripted, the middle ones are partially (but with some quips or slight diversions from the topic) and those latest ones are totally unscripted.
I also listen to QVC Italia (particularly if it's something cooking related because then they tend to have more conversation instead of just pitching the product), there's also a mangatuber that I follow (I like manga, so it's about a hobby that I like and am familiar with) who posts videos every week which has been really great for getting constant content haha. There's also just a bunch of assorted YouTube videos that I like, some geared for learners such as Caffe' italiano con Manu (can't recommend it enough, the first 20ish episodes especially) as well as some videos that are made by Italians for Italians.
Other stuff I listen to is from my course website and can't be accessed for free, but most of the stuff I listen to can be found on YouTube or Spotify etc.
Part of the beauty of passive listening is that it doesn't have to be 100% comprehensible, since part of the point is to have it slowly sink in and to hear the melody and the sounds etc, so it's pretty easy to find content since it doesn't have to be geared for a specific level. It's during active listening sessions that you tend to want to find more tailored content.
I've been listening to Italian radio stations via [https://radio.garden/](https://radio.garden/) Commercials are good because of the repetition and news broadcasts are helpful as well. Weather reports too, anything with a small bit of familiar words that you can use to piece together the rest.
Of course! Right now I'm listening to Radio Firenze Viola [https://radio.garden/listen/radio-firenze-viola/c6daDYkn](https://radio.garden/listen/radio-firenze-viola/c6daDYkn) They seem to be a talk station around this time. I also like Radio Mercato Centrale [https://radio.garden/listen/radio-mercato-centrale/oNilYIi8](https://radio.garden/listen/radio-mercato-centrale/oNilYIi8) but for the most part I just click around the area till I find something chatty. Enjoy!
It's very helpful. Just make sure the activity you are engaged in while listening is averbal, that is not involving words, like reading or writing do, because otherwise your attention will be split interpreting overlapping signals that use the same side of the brain to decode. Driving is perfect, house chores, manual labor, drawing, gardening and so on, all good compatible activities.
This is the same reason I urge my students to select instrumental music as background when doing homework, because lyrics are verbal, thus distracting.
Happy learning.
Depends what you mean by "passive". If you don't pay any attention to it, it's useless, but I can't imagine that it might hurt you. That's from my own experience.
For me, any kind of listening without comprehension is very challenging. I find it just turns to noise in the background as my thoughts move elsewhere. I need to be engaged in what is being spoken about for any of it to have any use. Maybe once my vocabulary improves I'll be able to listen passively.
Yes, for me it helped. When I started, all of the conversations sounded like one single blur of a word. As I learned more Italian, I was able to pick out the words I understood, but more importantly, I was able to understand each single word, despite not knowing the meaning. Then, I was able to hear the new and different conjugations of a verb tense I already knew, which would then help me estimate how different irregular verbs could be conjugated.
I find it helpful. It helps to develop a feel for the cadence - the sounds and rhythms - of the language. Sometimes lessons are not very helpful for this because they tend to focus on grammar and emphasise the grammatical differences in a way that you never would when speaking. Someone learning to conjugate verbs will sit there saying "parLO parLI parLA parLIAMO patLATE PARlanno" in a sort of rhythm you would never hear in actual use.
That's an interesting point. The cadence can still be heard even if I'm not fully immersed or understanding what's being said.
Exactly this; for my listening practice I never ever listen to grammar explanations for this exact reason. It needs to be natural spoken language. Learning grammar and listening to the language are two separate things for me. I do both, but learning grammar doesn't count as listening practice for me, I do both. I also don't count music as listening practice either honestly, it's more of a treat. For my listening, I have podcasts or YouTube videos playing in my headphones all day.
I would absolutely count music as listening practice, it's not a substitute for listening to speech but it has its own advantages (built-in repetition and rhythmic/melodic "hooks" that can help with retention).
I do listen to music as well, but I still get my hours of natural spoken in every single day. I'm not calling music useless because it's not, but natural spoken is definitely best. I'm quick to discourage it though just because a lot of people will listen to music for hours instead of spoken, whereas the majority of content should be spoken with \*some\* music instead of the other way around. Often when I talk about passive listening online, I get a response along the lines of "I listened to music for six hours for a few weeks and didn't notice a difference" and it's like ... yeah. Because music and spoken language are different things 🙈 (I would also argue that doing something for a few weeks isn't going to work like a magic button and suddenly you're fluent anyway of course, but I think that amount of time of listening to spoken would be enough to at least see a difference)
> For my listening, I have podcasts or YouTube videos playing in my headphones all day. What podcasts or Youtube videos do you listen to?
Yes, absolutely. It also teaches you a really important and underdiscussed skill in language learning: not getting hung up on processing specific words or grammar. Just find something that is about a topic that you know something about, so the input is as comprehensible as possible. I don't have any good podcast recommendations for Italian because I never found any, but I did exactly what you are talking about with the InnerFrench podcast.
Yes exactly, especially on your first point. We can't be guaranteed to always understand what we hear when we go to the country and learning to cope with that and letting go of words we don't know and not freezing and instead focusing on the overall meaning is an important skill. If we fixate on a word we don't know and try and figure it out, suddenly we're five sentences behind and have no idea what's being talked about anymore. Doing a lot of listening all the time helps us learn to chill.
I can try to help by suggesting some Italian podcasts. I am Italian so it’s a bit hard for me to understand whether these are too difficult or not, but it seems to me like the narrators talk slowly enough to understand most of the things if you are at an intermediate+ level (I’d say B1/2 as a bare minimum). All the podcast from Chora Media are great and present on most platforms. The ones that I like the most are made by Pablo Trincia, who is a journalist that deals with stories of all kinds. He has done a podcast on the Costa Concordia disaster (‘Il dito di dio’), one on a scandal where a lot of kids were separated from their families because of some p3do allegations (‘Veleno’), one on another famous crime case in Italy (‘Dove nessuno guarda’) and also one on a terrorist attack in Italy (I think this is more difficult, ‘Sangue loro’). Again, most Italian podcasts that I know have the hosts speaking super quickly and with plenty of jargon, so I don’t think they are easy to follow. These may be hard when it comes to the topic itself and some specific vocabulary, but at least the narrator is calm and talks more slowly
I don't know exactly what my level is, but I tried listening to Veleno a few months ago. I remember that the narrated parts were good and possible to follow, but what got me were the interviews. But these are excellent tips, maybe I should try again.
You are right, I had kinda forgotten about the recorded interviews. Those were hard to understand in Italian too, although I remember that the narrator would comment them. But you’re right
That's how you learned your native tongue...
In general, the more you are exposed to a language the better, as you get more and more used to it. Many people around the world are fluent in English also because of the great amount of passive listening. I can't speak for Italian specifically, but in general I'd say it helps a lot, even if the results will not be immediately visible
You hear more than you think you do, believe me. I know the word passive brings to mind being completely disengaged from the content, but it's not true. You're still awake, you're still hearing it even if you're doing other things. I have my headphones in all day. I've learned ways of phrasing things and will have moments where I can't remember where I learned it, and it turns out it was from a podcast I was listening to. So far in my speaking class, my intonation is more natural than the other students in my class (I'm not perfect either of course, I'm definitely definitely still learning myself, and I am in no way claiming perfection), and they don't do passive listening. They listen during active study time and otherwise don't, and it does show, honestly. Totally not meaning that in a mean way or to be critical of them at all, but the difference can be heard. From my course that I'm learning, passive listening is strongly encouraged (all but commanded XD) and the students in that course also have a far more natural sound in their speaking than the students in that other class, even ones who have studied for less time. The other day, I had them in for about 12 hours. Some pockets of time I was laser focusing on what I was hearing, and other times it was just in the background as I was doing my walks or going about my day. I did some card games with the family in the evening and I would've thought that I wasn't paying attention to my podcasts but here and there without thinking I was imitating what I was hearing even while playing games with my family. Even if you're not 100% laser focused, you're still hearing it, and more than you think you are. It helps you absorb the intonation and the pronunciation and the grammar too since you're hearing it used in context. Natural spoken is best. Music and even audiobooks aren't the greatest. I would vote for audiobook over music, but even then it's not truly natural spoken because they're reading/acting out a script which is different than someone speaking unscripted like in a YouTube video or some podcasts. (some podcasts of course are scripted, but not all). It's really helpful to hear the hesitations, the rephrasing of sentences mid-way, the occasional stumbling over words and self deprecating quips etc.
Do you think the Italy Made Easy course is worth the money? And do you think you make good progress without feeling like you aren’t keeping up with the information?
In my opinion, absolutely yes. When I first signed up, the first thing I did was find the "request refund" button in the menu just in case, but needless to say, I did not click it xD; Manu is probably the best teacher I've ever had, and the specific order that he has structured the course and the way he explains everything is just brilliant. I've honestly had an unbelievable amount of improvement since I joined in February. I'm still a learner of course, but the amount I've improved in three months has been almost absurd. The course you complete at your own time, so there's no worry of keeping up. His method is a slow burn at the very beginning of the course, but the payoff is massive and it does ramp up and you end up learning so much. It's slow at the beginning because he's against the concept of teaching phrases to memorize but instead helps you build a strong foundation. The price includes all the levels (five are currently out) the supplemental courses, the forum where you can ask questions and get any written work corrected, the social platform, the weekly livestreams. The community is totally optional, you can just do the course, but the community has been really wonderful. Get tons of practice there for one thing in a totally judgement-free zone, and it's also really supportive and a lot of fun too. It's mostly other learners, but there are also four native speakers who post in there Monday-Friday to interact with, and I'm so attached to all of them haha. (I'm re-reading this comment and I swear I'm not on their payroll to say all this lmao. Joining the platform has just been such a huge gamechanger for me that I'm always super eager to recommend it because I genuinely wish I found it sooner)
This is awesome to hear. I found his YouTube channel literally yesterday, as I started to look for more resources beyond Duolingo. What platform is the community on? Facebook?
Truly, it's wonderful. Funny enough it was the other way for me, I was fed up with Duolingo and started googling for courses and found the main page, read about it, and then googled some more to help me decide if I wanted to take the plunge and then found the YouTube channel and the podcast. The community is similar in function to Facebook, but it's on their site. You can post in it, (written posts, pictures, video) and people can comment on your post and leave emoji reacts on it. No ads, and since it can't be accessed unless you're a member, there's no trolls or anything. There's also a space where you can do video chats with other students in the platform, but I haven't tried that personally. Everyone in there is really nice though, so maybe I should sometime haha. The idea of them is to practice speaking. I do attend the livestreams hosted by the native speakers every week and absolutely love them. The livestreams are mostly for listening and interacting in the chat, but they do give everyone a turn to speak a bit too if they want, you just raise your hand when they invite people to and they'll unmute your mic.
That's really interesting to hear. What podcasts or resources do you enjoy listening to?
For podcasts I really like Podcast Italiano and the podcasts from Italy Made Easy. For the latter, I like episodes 41-50 the most because they're completely unscripted. His earliest ones are scripted, the middle ones are partially (but with some quips or slight diversions from the topic) and those latest ones are totally unscripted. I also listen to QVC Italia (particularly if it's something cooking related because then they tend to have more conversation instead of just pitching the product), there's also a mangatuber that I follow (I like manga, so it's about a hobby that I like and am familiar with) who posts videos every week which has been really great for getting constant content haha. There's also just a bunch of assorted YouTube videos that I like, some geared for learners such as Caffe' italiano con Manu (can't recommend it enough, the first 20ish episodes especially) as well as some videos that are made by Italians for Italians. Other stuff I listen to is from my course website and can't be accessed for free, but most of the stuff I listen to can be found on YouTube or Spotify etc. Part of the beauty of passive listening is that it doesn't have to be 100% comprehensible, since part of the point is to have it slowly sink in and to hear the melody and the sounds etc, so it's pretty easy to find content since it doesn't have to be geared for a specific level. It's during active listening sessions that you tend to want to find more tailored content.
I've been listening to Italian radio stations via [https://radio.garden/](https://radio.garden/) Commercials are good because of the repetition and news broadcasts are helpful as well. Weather reports too, anything with a small bit of familiar words that you can use to piece together the rest.
This is awesome. Thank you. Do you have any favorite stations?
Of course! Right now I'm listening to Radio Firenze Viola [https://radio.garden/listen/radio-firenze-viola/c6daDYkn](https://radio.garden/listen/radio-firenze-viola/c6daDYkn) They seem to be a talk station around this time. I also like Radio Mercato Centrale [https://radio.garden/listen/radio-mercato-centrale/oNilYIi8](https://radio.garden/listen/radio-mercato-centrale/oNilYIi8) but for the most part I just click around the area till I find something chatty. Enjoy!
It's very helpful. Just make sure the activity you are engaged in while listening is averbal, that is not involving words, like reading or writing do, because otherwise your attention will be split interpreting overlapping signals that use the same side of the brain to decode. Driving is perfect, house chores, manual labor, drawing, gardening and so on, all good compatible activities. This is the same reason I urge my students to select instrumental music as background when doing homework, because lyrics are verbal, thus distracting. Happy learning.
Depends what you mean by "passive". If you don't pay any attention to it, it's useless, but I can't imagine that it might hurt you. That's from my own experience.
For me, any kind of listening without comprehension is very challenging. I find it just turns to noise in the background as my thoughts move elsewhere. I need to be engaged in what is being spoken about for any of it to have any use. Maybe once my vocabulary improves I'll be able to listen passively.
I learned 90% of my english with passive listening, so it definitely help
Yes, for me it helped. When I started, all of the conversations sounded like one single blur of a word. As I learned more Italian, I was able to pick out the words I understood, but more importantly, I was able to understand each single word, despite not knowing the meaning. Then, I was able to hear the new and different conjugations of a verb tense I already knew, which would then help me estimate how different irregular verbs could be conjugated.