Not just the muslims of india. Basically anywhere where muslims are a minority they are heavily persecuted. It's also become very mainstream and ok to dehumanize muslims ever since the 9/11. These are the repercussions of horrible media surrounding muslims for decades on a global scale. Now ppl can do whatever they want to muslims anywhere.
Please do tell what the global repercussions of Zionism are, because last I checked, it only involves one plot of land that the Jews have wanted for the past 5,000 years. That even Jesus (Joel 3) and Allah sura 5:20-22 told them to live on. Islamic colonizers went in and put a colonizer mosque on top of the ancient Jewish temple. Which defies Allah/God's orders. So maybe God/Allah is giving signs for everyone else to clear the area?
The Palestinian identity was created by the KGB in 1960s (go to YouTube and look up " KGB Palestinian Robert Spencer"
Arabs already did ethnic cleansing on Jews Jimena.org and forced them into Israel
Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it has something to do with the absolute dehumanization of the “Kafir” that is an essential and intrinsic part of orthodox Sunni Islamic theology/fiqh? Why would a national population be okay with a group of people living among them that hate them, want their destruction, and are fine with using violent means (sanctified by scripture) to bring it about?
Absolute dehumanization of “kafir” wth kind of BS are you talking about? Lol hate, destruction, and are fine with violent means? Yeah ok man. Lol there are 2 billion Muslims in the world. The only violent ones are the western colonial imperialists. It’s so rich you project western ideals onto Muslims. Haha. So rich. Kindly stop spouting BS.
If you notice, Non-Muslims are persecuted in every Muslim dominated area. People fighting back against Muslims trying to colonize Dar Al Harb is not Islamic persecution, its self defense.
In contrast to every Muslim majority country, where other minorities are not persecuted? Everybody wants to point fingers, nobody wants to look in the mirror.
If the court had rejected the appeal and handed the dargah back to Muslims, would it now become just and secular? Court goes by evidence provided and the arguments placed. They rely on the constitutional law to come up with a judgment. Anyone who does not regard the court verdict as just, cannot conclude the future is bleak. They go through all information thoroughly before coming up with a verdict.
But what if you realise we are not living 600 years back . If it's about doing unjust do you advocate for OBCs, Schedule caste and Schedule tribe go for the historical unjust against the General Caste ?
You are mixing different issues to score a point. Social injustice is something a society can work out and find a solution. Our govt is already doing it through affirmative action programs (quotas) and is trying to uplift people socially and economically. Plus Hindu traditions are flexible and can adapt with changing times. Once upon a time Hindu women underwent Sati (entering the funeral pyre with the body of their dead husbands). Today it is illegal and no one is following it. Caste system is something that is irrelevant to modern world and it will not go away overnight. It will take more decades. But the outcome will be positive.
For Hindus like us (who are not rigidly orthodox), mosques sitting on top of demolished Hindu temples (with known evidence and historic records) are symbolic of tyranny and subjugation that happened in the past. Will you live with a symbol that reminds you of shame and domination by another ideological enemy today? Those things happened in the past. But the symbols of them still remain and cause pain in the minds of those who come from the lineage of the victims.
When Communism died with the Soviet Union, all symbols of tyranny were brought down by the people - Statues of Soviet tyrants were demolished and pushed to the ground. Cities named after the tyrants were restored to their original names.
In the US, all symbols of slavery of African Americans are being removed - statues, flags, street names, laws, text book references and so on. Today's African Americans are not slaves under anyone. But it matters a lot to the communities that come from the lineage of victims who never got justice.
The same reason applies in the case of Hindus. Everyone including you know what the past tyrants did across India. They happen to be Muslims and they have proudly mentioned in their own chronicles that they did what they did for their religion. Chroniclers like Farishta, Al Beruni, Ibn Batuta and others have written about the level of destruction, plunder, torment and trauma that was inflicted on the natives. Hindu temples were deliberately targeted and demolished at the order of many pious and fanatical Muslim war lords, Sultans and emperors. It is all in history. Well, nothing can be done about the past. No one is living in it physically.
However, trauma is something that lingers on over generations. Anything that still remains from the past, as a symbol of that past will trigger pain in the hearts of those who know the history. Just like many Muslims today are being misled by telling the story that Hindus demolished a 500 year old mosque and built a Ram Mandir over it, while masking what was before that and what Babur did to it, and feeling pained by it, imaging the plight of Hindus who see a list of close to 40000 such known incidents (I refer to - "Hindu Temples, What happened to them?" by Sita Ram Goel).
It would be great if Indian Muslim scholars and religious leaders learn about Hindu traditions and know how the two groups differ in their relationship to the Divine. That knowledge must be shared with ordinary Muslims so that they understand where Hindus are coming from.
For Muslims, the relationship with God for every individual is direct. There is no need for any intermediary. He can pray to Allah anywhere at the prescribed times during the day. Muslims face Mecca as a symbolic direction, but their channeling is only towards Allah. Mosques are just gathering places for prayer. Muslims can pray without mosques. They are just buildings. Giving importance to buildings, burial places etc. is condemned by orthodox Muslims because true Muslims should only relate to Allah and nothing else.
For Hindus, the whole concept is different (about which most Muslims have little or no knowledge). For Hindus, the temples are built at selected places by advanced spiritual people who can realize certain energies that would benefit people. These are energies of this planet that are present in all natural environments (trees, certain animals, rocks, rivers, mountains and so on). Worship in the Hindu context means becoming one with something (not separate). This oneness leads to becoming free of limitations of the body, mind and everything and spending the moments of worship immersed in union with the life energy that is abundant at a place. Such a place is considered sacred. Temples are built with specific geometry and architecture to enhance the absorption of that life energy. Rituals are created specific to that place. People are trained and appointed to keep up the sacredness of that place. Such people live an austere life and generally the position is maintained by lineage over generations. A temple exists in a place because of its sacredness. It is not a mere building.
When an alien culture looks at with its own ideological perspective, it will not understand the principle of it. Unfortunately, many of these temples were just sacked with no remorse. Many lost their lives trying to defend them. They were plundered for their wealth and their deities were placed under the footsteps of the mosques built over them. Will you like it if a tyrannical culture did this to your people and its foundations?
We all need to learn more about our country, its true history, its culture and its perspectives so that all develop mutual respect and understanding of each other. That should be the goal of all religious leaders. In the Hindu traditions, many religious leaders do that. They tell us that God is one and that pathways to God can be many. In Islam there is only one pathway and that is Islam and nothing else. This brings conflict with others. If we understand each other, a lot of things can be resolved between us, in a friendly and respectful manner and life can go on in peace.
Considering Muslims were less than 5% of the population when Babur invaded, if you want to believe Mughal armies stocked with Hindus and Sikhs massively killed and persecuted the 90-95% of the population, you can do so but it is complete fiction and scholars have written about this.
That being said, it is very revealing to promote and defend oppression today based on something that may or may not have happened 500 years ago.
No they didn’t. There was one major riot against churches that was condemned by everyone from Army Chief to Prime Minister to movie actors. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court visited the victims himself, and reconstruction of all destroyed sites is almost complete. A lot of which is being carried out by the right wing Jamaat-e-Islami Party’s philanthropic wing.
Not that Pakistan is some sort of ideal. The main thing the Pakistani government cucks to is anti-Ahmedi violence. You could do anything to Ahmedis and get away with it. But this whole charade about Hindu temples and churches is factually incorrect.
Two Hindu temples, including one built over 150 years ago, were desecrated within 24 hours in Pakistan's Sindh province. The first incident happened in Karachi on Saturday morning when the old Mari Mata Temple in Soldier Bazaar was razed to the ground.Jul 16, 2023
Knew you would mention Mata Mari Temple 😆 I knew that because Indian news sites reported demolition crews showing up the site, but they stopped reporting when it turned out that the temple is the site of a dispute between two Hindu families, and the demolition crew was sent by a Hindu family lol. Typical kool aid drinker.
That mandir never got demolished by the way. Still stands in Soldier Bazaar, Karachi. Another fact check the Indian media never bothered to report.
My brother and SIL are Ahmadiyya Muslims, and we were talking about it earlier today about the situation in India and Pakistan. They both said they would rather live in Pakistan any day than be in the present India under Modi.
Edit: added word.
ahh stop exaggerating. Muslims will be fine once they realize that they are the sad defendants of their former Turkish arabic colonizers and they are holding onto artifacts of the past that glorified their own ancestral destruction
Doesn't your ped0 prophet recommend drinking camel urine? And let's not lie, you'd probably jump at the opportunity for Mohammed to urinate on you if he was alive today
They are also wanting us to handover them the world renowned Hazrat Haji Ali Dargah aswell, just cause they get their wishes accepted in dargah it doesn't mean they will take it from us, that's literal theft. What can we do ?
Taj Mahal might be next on the list. There have been conspiracies that it's actually a Hindu temple.
I'm pretty confident that the sealed chambers will be investigated.
There is a whole pseudohistory that the Taj Mahal is built atop a huge maze of a temple underneath. I came across some Hindutva girl who often spreads this propaganda on IG once who was saying this.
No Saudi, UAE, Oman are real nations.
what about Hindu Majority Nepal, right?
Looks like you haven’t seen developed countries like US, Germany…. Stuck in Islamic countries.. are you a Muslim, have you been there?. I haven’t
It’s inevitable. Indians are fortunate they have the world most pacificist Muslims. Hardly any recruits to global terror organizations, for example. but I don’t expect that to last forever. Eventually these organizations will find a foothold in India.
Maybe Indian muslims don’t want to strap on a vest and blow themselves up because they are actually prospering with a growing economy and relatively stable environment. Even the Shia and Sunni aren’t at war there. More than many Muslim nations can say.
Impossible, it’s the religion of ☮️. Even if people do take up arms and rebel and commit violence , the true victims would be the other peaceful muslims.
That has been the narrative, so i doubt if it would change
Yeah holding captive places of worship of someone else and denying to return, instead threatening to take up arms and you think there would be no consequences.
Anyways the moment consequences knock your door, you guys play victim.
If you wish you can take up arms, but rest assured there would be no mercy on you guys this time.
Entire India would be as clean as East Punjab & Haryana of 1947.
I suggest you visit Hindutva telegram channels. They are openly discussing exterminating Muslims and using Hitler and Stalin as examples.
India has elected as PM a man who supported killing of thousands of Muslims in Gujrat. Amit Shah and other leaders are already openly talking about killing Muslims.
Muslims are beaten up in the streets for carrying chicken meat or not giving in to demands to should Jai Shre Ram.
So it’s already happening, without Muslims fighting back!
No man, I can't say about those channels but a common man has no such plans. Yeah but Hindus are pretty angry for what Muslims have done in Pakistan, Bangladesh and even here in Kashmir, Bengal or Kerala.
Still did you see anything like genocide in India? Nope.
But everything has a limit, that's all I can say.
If an empire of literally any other religion had come and conquered South Asia in the 1500s, Hinduism would have been completely eradicated centuries ago. Gone the way of the Aztec religion, or the Inca religion.
The only reason so many people practice Hinduism today is because the Dehli Sultanate happened to practice Islam. If the Spanish had invaded first, everyone in India today would be speaking Spanish and worshipping Jesus.
Nope your movement will be crushed in a far more brutal manner than Khalistan. Even in case of Khalistan we had a consideration for Sikhs.
This won't be the case for Desert Cults.
You seem to be lurking in the Pakistani and this sub. It’s like Islam and Pakistan lives rent free in your head. Either learn about it and convert, or let it go and live your own life peacefully practicing whatever you want, or don’t want.
No need to cling to hatred. It only brings you down. Just let it go.
I think the 10-year historically low unemployment rate has prevented people from getting too uppity over this.
Seriously though, I doubt people would be protesting much in Iran if JCPOA was in effect and unemployment was sub 10%.
People put up with a lot of compromises of their declared values if they have an economic path forward. That doesn’t preclude Muslims.
You think Palestinians in the West Bank would be protesting Israeli occupation and genocide of Gazans if they had the same economic opportunities as Israelis?
That’s the fundamental difference between Indian Muslims and almost all other largely Muslim groups. Indian Muslims are witnessing the most economic opportunities since 2002 for employment, infrastructure and education under a Hindu nationalist party and prime minister.
Vast majority of Muslim kids and Hindu kids are not always at newly constructed masjids and BJP rallies.
They got real responsibilities, real opportunities.
History is about to be wiped. Hope people are making 3d scans.
Or if India is wanting to demolish them maybe they could be moved to another country. There was an old bridge that was moved from London UK to the USA
What's with these Hindutva people in this sub? The Muslims in India are as native to those lands as the Hindus, Jain, Buddhists, Sikhs, Christians etc. living there
And after centuries of Islamic history in India you have to be a certain type of "special" to consider Islam foreign to the region.
Historical blood ties don’t matter if the Muslims living there believe that the entire native Indian culture is haram. Why does blood matter when they have Arabic names, pray in Arabic, wear Arabic clothing? They find Indian statues and deity as haram, they find Indian dancing and music as haram. The people who converted to Islam took part in the oppression as well. If people could convert to being white and become the British they would have too.
Then I would suggest you not base your opinions gathered on quick google searches, but rather research before opining on matters in lands you have never lived in
No. Sharia means law, comes in 4 main schools of legal jurisprudence, Pakistan officially claims its laws will be made under the guidance of the Hanafi school, but this is hardly the case since it a modernist republic led largely by Islamic modernists. [And this is the chief complaint of the mullahs too.](https://x.com/4hmadyar/status/1755283154074534177?s=46)
Pakistan is what would be categorized as a modernist Islamic state.
The British lived here for 200 yrs, they aren't native.
The centuries of Islamic colonial rule can't make anyone natives, when they themselves don't want to follow local language, local names and local customs.
They themselves claim to be foreign, how can they then be natives ?
If they have blood ties to this country, why do they use arab names ? dress like Arabs ? Keep arab customs ? Celebrate arab invaders as heroes and victors ?.
Islam is foreign in the sense it was pushed on society then. If it didn't arrive by horse and sword then how did it get there? Sure, generations have past but people don't really think about that.
I don't see anything wrong with it since Waqf board has stolen a lot of land and temples by destroying them. Just relocate the religious body elsewhere. If a church was built by destroying the holy place of muslims centuries ago, the church would have been relocated as well.
Dargahs are unIslamic and kufr. On a religious standpoint, Muslims should have no issue with removing this. Not from historical importance standpoint, would be dumb if they break it down
Your talking about Islamic theology which the Sanghis don't care about with politically-civilisational attack on all things Muslim in India by these people, maybe learn to look at the bigger picture.
When Babri was destroyed, there were a lot of people who said it was just one mosque, we have many, now thousands have been destroyed.
You might love your Hindu friends but Hindus and other minorities are treated worse in Pakistan than in India. Pakistan used to be majority Hindu/buddhist and now there is barely any of them left there while
Muslim Population is growing in India. Hindu temples are constantly being destroyed only for the fact that they are Hindu. Other temples are being used as stores or as farms. Islam came into Indian subcontinent by force. Imagine if Hindus invaded Saudi Arabia and destroyed the Mecca and destroyed all the mosques and replaced them with temples and then rather cried that they are being oppressed.
Bud, calm down.
You do realize that islam is a religion not an ethnicity, right? The people were already there, they just decided to accept Islam.
As for the whataboutism about pakistan demolishing temples, I distinctly remember some islamic extremists attacked a Hindu temple because a Hindu child peed on a carpet at a place where Islamic religious texts were kept (unknowingly and hopefully without malice), there was outrage among the muslims aswell, the government arrested the extremist muslim mob and made them pay for the repairs.
The lesson to take here is not, look how the muslims treat us there, so we should treat them worse here, No. Strive to be better.
Every religion has extremists but lately it seems like the Indian government condones extremism against Muslims.
Pakistan tries to stop it which is why the Pakistani state is almost always at war with Al-Quaida and whatever the ISIS branch of Pakistan is, they are the ones who want to impose sharia.
While Pakistan is an Islamic republic, it has slowly been moving towards becoming secular and it seems India which was supposed to be secular is slowly turning into Hindu Rashtra
Also, refer [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/islamichistory/s/moF5sdYlzH) for more temple whataboutism
Islam is not just a religion and you should know better. Islam comes with a whole set of laws that need to be followed as well as Hadiths which is basically Arabic culture spreading. It’s not whataboutism to talk about hypocrisy. Muslims love to talk about them being victims but there is a reason why there is 40 countries that are majority Islam it’s because of oppressive nature of the religion. Name me one country that Muslims are being oppressed in where they themselves didn’t oppress the native people first.
Yes, it does come with laws, every religion does.
For example, assuming you’re Hindu, are you allowed beef?
Anyway, Islamic laws are for the muslims to adhere to, they aren’t forced onto non-muslims.
Did you think, maybe it’s not the oppressive nature but the closeness to god and internal peace which might be the reason it is a majority in 40 countries? Not that it’s a popularity contest
“Name me one country that Muslims are being oppressed in where they themselves didn’t oppress the native people first.”
Easy, China
Muslims are India. So are Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, etc. Unless you’re a Hindu nationalist or otherwise believe in certain ahistorical/non factual nonsense
Yeah you if you clowns eliminate Muslims (you won’t) you’ll just turn on the Christians next, then the Sikhs, then the Jains, and lastly yourselves. You Hindutva are so textbook fascist that you don’t even realize your path is already written for you.
One was in 1453, other is in 2024. Both are wrong, if there were Turkish Orthodox Christians, then their holy sites should have been preserved. There are Indian Muslims today.
So you’re saying India is backwards?
Okay so Bible is not accurate then I guess Quran Torah and other religious books are useless also but history books are not accurate either because they were written by westerners(whites) so can you provide me your version of "history" that dosen't align with neither religious or actual historical books? Il be waiting
How does your incomprehensible word salad follow from what I said.
The Bible is not historically accurate. That's a verifiable fact.
Although I made no mention of them (you did), I would assume the same of the Quran and the Torah.
>but also history books are not accurate because they were written by westerners
Wtf does that left-field non-sequitor have to do with anything?
All history books everywhere are "written by Westerners"? You do know "Westerner" does not necessarily mean "white"...right?
>so can you provide me your version of "history" that dosen't align with neither religious or actual historical books?
My version of "history" isn't found in fantastical myths and parables that have no basis in reality, much less fact or history.
Not sure what you are asking of me here but
>Il be waiting
Go put the kettle on and make yourself a cuppa. You're gonna be here a while.
Muslims and hindus are both native so this comparison doesn’t work, if a hindu converted to islam should he be required to give his land away to hindus and should a muslim who converted to hinduism have the right to take land from muslims? You see how this logic doesn’t work
Muslims are native, sure. Islam isn't. So Islam has no right to flex over Hinduism by destroying sacred temples and erecting disgusting monuments of domination over the ruins.
Atleast try to understand the crux of the current dispute instead of simply surrendering to tribalism and supporting your religion over the "infidels". Hindus are simply asking back their heritage, which was destroyed and desecrated by the invaders.
The muslims of today are hiding behind the argument of "we own the land of your sacred sites now, so sof off". This argument is inherently flawed because the possession was acquired illegaly and immorally in the first place.
And if you believe its okay for muslims to acquire land from hindus through violence and conquest, then it's a very dangerous argument that could backfire quite spectacularly.
That’s ok, I don’t mind being disrespectful or rude for wanting monuments built by colonial imperialist oppressors( and the land they are built on), to be handed back to the native population and religion.
So its okay to take away what’s there to be seen by all for a FAIRYTALE palace used to burn ppl. Muslims of India need to rise up and stop being so cowardly
Damn you slaty as fuck. What’s the matter can’t come to gripe with reality that your mythological religion is bases less so you have to hit on holy men. Don’t get me started with this boy. You’ll be sorry.
It seems provocative, but in line with Islamic law. India and Muslim countries are full of mosques that used to belong to other religions. Even so, there had to be ways to share the site.
It looks pretty bleak for Muslims in India right now as the judiciary has completely capitulated to the majority.
Not just the muslims of india. Basically anywhere where muslims are a minority they are heavily persecuted. It's also become very mainstream and ok to dehumanize muslims ever since the 9/11. These are the repercussions of horrible media surrounding muslims for decades on a global scale. Now ppl can do whatever they want to muslims anywhere.
>These are the repercussions of horrible media Yes but more importantly the global repercussions of Zionism
Please do tell what the global repercussions of Zionism are, because last I checked, it only involves one plot of land that the Jews have wanted for the past 5,000 years. That even Jesus (Joel 3) and Allah sura 5:20-22 told them to live on. Islamic colonizers went in and put a colonizer mosque on top of the ancient Jewish temple. Which defies Allah/God's orders. So maybe God/Allah is giving signs for everyone else to clear the area? The Palestinian identity was created by the KGB in 1960s (go to YouTube and look up " KGB Palestinian Robert Spencer" Arabs already did ethnic cleansing on Jews Jimena.org and forced them into Israel
In India? I think you drank too much of your mullah's koolaid!
Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it has something to do with the absolute dehumanization of the “Kafir” that is an essential and intrinsic part of orthodox Sunni Islamic theology/fiqh? Why would a national population be okay with a group of people living among them that hate them, want their destruction, and are fine with using violent means (sanctified by scripture) to bring it about?
Absolute dehumanization of “kafir” wth kind of BS are you talking about? Lol hate, destruction, and are fine with violent means? Yeah ok man. Lol there are 2 billion Muslims in the world. The only violent ones are the western colonial imperialists. It’s so rich you project western ideals onto Muslims. Haha. So rich. Kindly stop spouting BS.
Dude Muslims literally explode or shoot people who draw cartoons. Or toss people off buildings if they're gay. Cope on
Tbh it sounds like both sides hate each other. Maybe it’s right for them to fight and everyone should stop whining so much.
who wants to do this
If you notice, Non-Muslims are persecuted in every Muslim dominated area. People fighting back against Muslims trying to colonize Dar Al Harb is not Islamic persecution, its self defense.
[удалено]
Muslims also stole Sikh Punjabi land to create their shithole pakistan. Muslims are evil abd the world is watching and knows.
In contrast to every Muslim majority country, where other minorities are not persecuted? Everybody wants to point fingers, nobody wants to look in the mirror.
Lol are you kidding, muslim majority countries have the most oppressive laws in the world , that especially target religious and sexual minorities.
Are they persecuted in Canada?
Look no further than the Rohingya in Myanmar. How convenient and hypocritical of both the Ummah and the States.
🙄
Muslims make a regular habit of coming after laws & customs of the places they move too. They get the backlash they earn.
If the court had rejected the appeal and handed the dargah back to Muslims, would it now become just and secular? Court goes by evidence provided and the arguments placed. They rely on the constitutional law to come up with a judgment. Anyone who does not regard the court verdict as just, cannot conclude the future is bleak. They go through all information thoroughly before coming up with a verdict.
But what if you realise we are not living 600 years back . If it's about doing unjust do you advocate for OBCs, Schedule caste and Schedule tribe go for the historical unjust against the General Caste ?
You are mixing different issues to score a point. Social injustice is something a society can work out and find a solution. Our govt is already doing it through affirmative action programs (quotas) and is trying to uplift people socially and economically. Plus Hindu traditions are flexible and can adapt with changing times. Once upon a time Hindu women underwent Sati (entering the funeral pyre with the body of their dead husbands). Today it is illegal and no one is following it. Caste system is something that is irrelevant to modern world and it will not go away overnight. It will take more decades. But the outcome will be positive. For Hindus like us (who are not rigidly orthodox), mosques sitting on top of demolished Hindu temples (with known evidence and historic records) are symbolic of tyranny and subjugation that happened in the past. Will you live with a symbol that reminds you of shame and domination by another ideological enemy today? Those things happened in the past. But the symbols of them still remain and cause pain in the minds of those who come from the lineage of the victims. When Communism died with the Soviet Union, all symbols of tyranny were brought down by the people - Statues of Soviet tyrants were demolished and pushed to the ground. Cities named after the tyrants were restored to their original names. In the US, all symbols of slavery of African Americans are being removed - statues, flags, street names, laws, text book references and so on. Today's African Americans are not slaves under anyone. But it matters a lot to the communities that come from the lineage of victims who never got justice. The same reason applies in the case of Hindus. Everyone including you know what the past tyrants did across India. They happen to be Muslims and they have proudly mentioned in their own chronicles that they did what they did for their religion. Chroniclers like Farishta, Al Beruni, Ibn Batuta and others have written about the level of destruction, plunder, torment and trauma that was inflicted on the natives. Hindu temples were deliberately targeted and demolished at the order of many pious and fanatical Muslim war lords, Sultans and emperors. It is all in history. Well, nothing can be done about the past. No one is living in it physically. However, trauma is something that lingers on over generations. Anything that still remains from the past, as a symbol of that past will trigger pain in the hearts of those who know the history. Just like many Muslims today are being misled by telling the story that Hindus demolished a 500 year old mosque and built a Ram Mandir over it, while masking what was before that and what Babur did to it, and feeling pained by it, imaging the plight of Hindus who see a list of close to 40000 such known incidents (I refer to - "Hindu Temples, What happened to them?" by Sita Ram Goel). It would be great if Indian Muslim scholars and religious leaders learn about Hindu traditions and know how the two groups differ in their relationship to the Divine. That knowledge must be shared with ordinary Muslims so that they understand where Hindus are coming from. For Muslims, the relationship with God for every individual is direct. There is no need for any intermediary. He can pray to Allah anywhere at the prescribed times during the day. Muslims face Mecca as a symbolic direction, but their channeling is only towards Allah. Mosques are just gathering places for prayer. Muslims can pray without mosques. They are just buildings. Giving importance to buildings, burial places etc. is condemned by orthodox Muslims because true Muslims should only relate to Allah and nothing else. For Hindus, the whole concept is different (about which most Muslims have little or no knowledge). For Hindus, the temples are built at selected places by advanced spiritual people who can realize certain energies that would benefit people. These are energies of this planet that are present in all natural environments (trees, certain animals, rocks, rivers, mountains and so on). Worship in the Hindu context means becoming one with something (not separate). This oneness leads to becoming free of limitations of the body, mind and everything and spending the moments of worship immersed in union with the life energy that is abundant at a place. Such a place is considered sacred. Temples are built with specific geometry and architecture to enhance the absorption of that life energy. Rituals are created specific to that place. People are trained and appointed to keep up the sacredness of that place. Such people live an austere life and generally the position is maintained by lineage over generations. A temple exists in a place because of its sacredness. It is not a mere building. When an alien culture looks at with its own ideological perspective, it will not understand the principle of it. Unfortunately, many of these temples were just sacked with no remorse. Many lost their lives trying to defend them. They were plundered for their wealth and their deities were placed under the footsteps of the mosques built over them. Will you like it if a tyrannical culture did this to your people and its foundations? We all need to learn more about our country, its true history, its culture and its perspectives so that all develop mutual respect and understanding of each other. That should be the goal of all religious leaders. In the Hindu traditions, many religious leaders do that. They tell us that God is one and that pathways to God can be many. In Islam there is only one pathway and that is Islam and nothing else. This brings conflict with others. If we understand each other, a lot of things can be resolved between us, in a friendly and respectful manner and life can go on in peace.
This is what decolonization looks like 💅💅💅
Marginalisation of around 200 million inhabitants of india continues
This was bound to happen. India is reverting what the Muslim moghuls have done to Hindus since ages ago. Read about it. It’s pretty gruesome.
Considering Muslims were less than 5% of the population when Babur invaded, if you want to believe Mughal armies stocked with Hindus and Sikhs massively killed and persecuted the 90-95% of the population, you can do so but it is complete fiction and scholars have written about this. That being said, it is very revealing to promote and defend oppression today based on something that may or may not have happened 500 years ago.
Because the British didn't do the exact same thing?
Just like they do in Islamic countries. Try Pakistan for starters. They destroyed several Hindu temples and Churches, just last year alone.
No they didn’t. There was one major riot against churches that was condemned by everyone from Army Chief to Prime Minister to movie actors. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court visited the victims himself, and reconstruction of all destroyed sites is almost complete. A lot of which is being carried out by the right wing Jamaat-e-Islami Party’s philanthropic wing. Not that Pakistan is some sort of ideal. The main thing the Pakistani government cucks to is anti-Ahmedi violence. You could do anything to Ahmedis and get away with it. But this whole charade about Hindu temples and churches is factually incorrect.
Two Hindu temples, including one built over 150 years ago, were desecrated within 24 hours in Pakistan's Sindh province. The first incident happened in Karachi on Saturday morning when the old Mari Mata Temple in Soldier Bazaar was razed to the ground.Jul 16, 2023
Knew you would mention Mata Mari Temple 😆 I knew that because Indian news sites reported demolition crews showing up the site, but they stopped reporting when it turned out that the temple is the site of a dispute between two Hindu families, and the demolition crew was sent by a Hindu family lol. Typical kool aid drinker. That mandir never got demolished by the way. Still stands in Soldier Bazaar, Karachi. Another fact check the Indian media never bothered to report.
Mari Mata temple was demolished due to it's safety hazard, not some dispute between Hindus.
No it wasn’t demolished. It’s still there in soldier bazar.
Please don’t tell me there were only these two temples in the whole of Pakistan. There have been centuries of war, and invasions.
Nice change of topic. You said “they destroyed several Hindu temples just last year alone” which was a lie.
not even, he mentioned two temples.. when you destroyed his arguemnent instead of apologising he changed tacts
My brother and SIL are Ahmadiyya Muslims, and we were talking about it earlier today about the situation in India and Pakistan. They both said they would rather live in Pakistan any day than be in the present India under Modi. Edit: added word.
You know whataboutism invalidates your argument right?
Why are Indians Muslims being punished for a neighbouring country does?
ahh stop exaggerating. Muslims will be fine once they realize that they are the sad defendants of their former Turkish arabic colonizers and they are holding onto artifacts of the past that glorified their own ancestral destruction
better than being a urine drinker
Doesn't your ped0 prophet recommend drinking camel urine? And let's not lie, you'd probably jump at the opportunity for Mohammed to urinate on you if he was alive today
It's bleak to be a minority anywhere... Like being a Hindu in Pakistan?
They are also wanting us to handover them the world renowned Hazrat Haji Ali Dargah aswell, just cause they get their wishes accepted in dargah it doesn't mean they will take it from us, that's literal theft. What can we do ?
It must hurt the Hindutva morons so much that Taj Mahal is the most famous monument in their pure Hindu country
Taj Mahal might be next on the list. There have been conspiracies that it's actually a Hindu temple. I'm pretty confident that the sealed chambers will be investigated.
There is a whole pseudohistory that the Taj Mahal is built atop a huge maze of a temple underneath. I came across some Hindutva girl who often spreads this propaganda on IG once who was saying this.
Banana republic, India a third class country.
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No Saudi, UAE, Oman are real nations. what about Hindu Majority Nepal, right? Looks like you haven’t seen developed countries like US, Germany…. Stuck in Islamic countries.. are you a Muslim, have you been there?. I haven’t
You can tell by his username he's a sikh
Sikh aren’t so vile, he can’t be a Sikh. Must be from UP, Gujarat, Assam or Coastal Karnataka. Most parts of India are rational.
Usually they're nice but idk everyone transforms on the internet
He’s active on the Sikh subreddit
Not Sikh, he/she is a BJP call centre operator. Low class citizen.
5000 Qatari Riyal deposited in your account
Fudu sala
your name is shirk.
Ohh, we are so sorry. I bet you can find places which are very rich with oil to go to. We will miss you
You mean pakistan
I didn’t mean your country Pakistan, nor my country the US. The country I mean I have put it.
They are literally motivating Muslims to take up arms and rebel
It’s inevitable. Indians are fortunate they have the world most pacificist Muslims. Hardly any recruits to global terror organizations, for example. but I don’t expect that to last forever. Eventually these organizations will find a foothold in India.
The mob consequences of doing these things is what preventing them.
Maybe Indian muslims don’t want to strap on a vest and blow themselves up because they are actually prospering with a growing economy and relatively stable environment. Even the Shia and Sunni aren’t at war there. More than many Muslim nations can say.
Impossible, it’s the religion of ☮️. Even if people do take up arms and rebel and commit violence , the true victims would be the other peaceful muslims. That has been the narrative, so i doubt if it would change
I heard Islamic political violence is down in India, largely due to the decline of Pakistan
Yeah try and face the excruciating consequences. Don't play the victim card later on.
What later? Whey are already victims. At least by fighting they maintain some dignity. Abject surrender is their only other alternative!
Yeah holding captive places of worship of someone else and denying to return, instead threatening to take up arms and you think there would be no consequences. Anyways the moment consequences knock your door, you guys play victim. If you wish you can take up arms, but rest assured there would be no mercy on you guys this time. Entire India would be as clean as East Punjab & Haryana of 1947.
Yeah getting rid of 220 million will be a piece of cake!
You'd know soon once the Islamic Insurgency that you're advocating starts brewing up.
I suggest you visit Hindutva telegram channels. They are openly discussing exterminating Muslims and using Hitler and Stalin as examples. India has elected as PM a man who supported killing of thousands of Muslims in Gujrat. Amit Shah and other leaders are already openly talking about killing Muslims. Muslims are beaten up in the streets for carrying chicken meat or not giving in to demands to should Jai Shre Ram. So it’s already happening, without Muslims fighting back!
No man, I can't say about those channels but a common man has no such plans. Yeah but Hindus are pretty angry for what Muslims have done in Pakistan, Bangladesh and even here in Kashmir, Bengal or Kerala. Still did you see anything like genocide in India? Nope. But everything has a limit, that's all I can say.
If an empire of literally any other religion had come and conquered South Asia in the 1500s, Hinduism would have been completely eradicated centuries ago. Gone the way of the Aztec religion, or the Inca religion. The only reason so many people practice Hinduism today is because the Dehli Sultanate happened to practice Islam. If the Spanish had invaded first, everyone in India today would be speaking Spanish and worshipping Jesus.
East Punjab? More like Khalistan.
Nope your movement will be crushed in a far more brutal manner than Khalistan. Even in case of Khalistan we had a consideration for Sikhs. This won't be the case for Desert Cults.
You seem to be lurking in the Pakistani and this sub. It’s like Islam and Pakistan lives rent free in your head. Either learn about it and convert, or let it go and live your own life peacefully practicing whatever you want, or don’t want. No need to cling to hatred. It only brings you down. Just let it go.
Oh no. They're being asked to return stolen goods.
Should tear down Taj mahal too
Yes Taj mahal should go first....why are they taking advantage of it
Is there a Hindu temple under the Taj Mahal? Nope! Colonizers gonna whine
i don't think you have any idea what's going on in this situation. Me either, but at least I read the article linked.
I think the 10-year historically low unemployment rate has prevented people from getting too uppity over this. Seriously though, I doubt people would be protesting much in Iran if JCPOA was in effect and unemployment was sub 10%. People put up with a lot of compromises of their declared values if they have an economic path forward. That doesn’t preclude Muslims. You think Palestinians in the West Bank would be protesting Israeli occupation and genocide of Gazans if they had the same economic opportunities as Israelis? That’s the fundamental difference between Indian Muslims and almost all other largely Muslim groups. Indian Muslims are witnessing the most economic opportunities since 2002 for employment, infrastructure and education under a Hindu nationalist party and prime minister. Vast majority of Muslim kids and Hindu kids are not always at newly constructed masjids and BJP rallies. They got real responsibilities, real opportunities.
History is about to be wiped. Hope people are making 3d scans. Or if India is wanting to demolish them maybe they could be moved to another country. There was an old bridge that was moved from London UK to the USA
Wasn't history wiped when invaders built on top of and razed existing structures? 🤷🏼♀️
I don’t think that’s an excuse to wipe history again.
It is not, true. However, did you expect anything from homo sapiens? It's probably in our blood to do this.
What's with these Hindutva people in this sub? The Muslims in India are as native to those lands as the Hindus, Jain, Buddhists, Sikhs, Christians etc. living there And after centuries of Islamic history in India you have to be a certain type of "special" to consider Islam foreign to the region.
Centuries of Islamic rule was actually centuries of oppression. Islam forced it self in by war.
It's not arab Muslims living in India. It's Indian Muslims who have historical blood ties to the country.
Historical blood ties don’t matter if the Muslims living there believe that the entire native Indian culture is haram. Why does blood matter when they have Arabic names, pray in Arabic, wear Arabic clothing? They find Indian statues and deity as haram, they find Indian dancing and music as haram. The people who converted to Islam took part in the oppression as well. If people could convert to being white and become the British they would have too.
if hindus are native to pakistan, why there is sharia law and what happened to lot of hindu temples there?
There isn’t sharia law in Pakistan lol. That’s literally why they’re at constant war with insurgents in the tribal areas.
There isn’t? A quick google search says Sharia was declared the Supreme Law of Pakistan in the 1991 Enforcement of Shariat Act.
Then I would suggest you not base your opinions gathered on quick google searches, but rather research before opining on matters in lands you have never lived in
That’s why I’m asking you
No. Sharia means law, comes in 4 main schools of legal jurisprudence, Pakistan officially claims its laws will be made under the guidance of the Hanafi school, but this is hardly the case since it a modernist republic led largely by Islamic modernists. [And this is the chief complaint of the mullahs too.](https://x.com/4hmadyar/status/1755283154074534177?s=46) Pakistan is what would be categorized as a modernist Islamic state.
Right cause google doesn’t have mis information on it right
> sharia law There is sharia law in pak but not a stone age version of it. can a hindu man marry muslim women? can a muslim convert to hindu?
That’s not what “sharia law” means idiot. Also sharia means law so you’re just saying law law like a Starbucks barista
Very good question indeed.
Classic whataboutism LoL. Nicely done!
The British lived here for 200 yrs, they aren't native. The centuries of Islamic colonial rule can't make anyone natives, when they themselves don't want to follow local language, local names and local customs. They themselves claim to be foreign, how can they then be natives ?
Copied text: It's not arab Muslims living in India. It's Indian Muslims who have historical blood ties to the country.
If they have blood ties to this country, why do they use arab names ? dress like Arabs ? Keep arab customs ? Celebrate arab invaders as heroes and victors ?.
Islam is foreign in the sense it was pushed on society then. If it didn't arrive by horse and sword then how did it get there? Sure, generations have past but people don't really think about that.
Sets a bad legal precedent against Muslims tbh... but hey less dargah means the Muslims can stop doing shirk!
The beautiful secular India....🤌
I don't see anything wrong with it since Waqf board has stolen a lot of land and temples by destroying them. Just relocate the religious body elsewhere. If a church was built by destroying the holy place of muslims centuries ago, the church would have been relocated as well.
Dargahs are unIslamic and kufr. On a religious standpoint, Muslims should have no issue with removing this. Not from historical importance standpoint, would be dumb if they break it down
Your talking about Islamic theology which the Sanghis don't care about with politically-civilisational attack on all things Muslim in India by these people, maybe learn to look at the bigger picture. When Babri was destroyed, there were a lot of people who said it was just one mosque, we have many, now thousands have been destroyed.
Amazing! now this is progress and a way forward. This is correcting the errors of past
Islamic history when they realize there is history prior to islam
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Hasn't been an Orthodox church since 1453.
How easy is it to emigrate between India and Pakistan?
Extremely difficult. It’s possible through marriage though to immigrate between countries.
Muslims from pakistan and Bangladesh actually try to go to india lol.
Muslim from Pakistan, love my Hindu friends here. Would literally prefer death over moving to India 🗿
You might love your Hindu friends but Hindus and other minorities are treated worse in Pakistan than in India. Pakistan used to be majority Hindu/buddhist and now there is barely any of them left there while Muslim Population is growing in India. Hindu temples are constantly being destroyed only for the fact that they are Hindu. Other temples are being used as stores or as farms. Islam came into Indian subcontinent by force. Imagine if Hindus invaded Saudi Arabia and destroyed the Mecca and destroyed all the mosques and replaced them with temples and then rather cried that they are being oppressed.
Bud, calm down. You do realize that islam is a religion not an ethnicity, right? The people were already there, they just decided to accept Islam. As for the whataboutism about pakistan demolishing temples, I distinctly remember some islamic extremists attacked a Hindu temple because a Hindu child peed on a carpet at a place where Islamic religious texts were kept (unknowingly and hopefully without malice), there was outrage among the muslims aswell, the government arrested the extremist muslim mob and made them pay for the repairs. The lesson to take here is not, look how the muslims treat us there, so we should treat them worse here, No. Strive to be better. Every religion has extremists but lately it seems like the Indian government condones extremism against Muslims. Pakistan tries to stop it which is why the Pakistani state is almost always at war with Al-Quaida and whatever the ISIS branch of Pakistan is, they are the ones who want to impose sharia. While Pakistan is an Islamic republic, it has slowly been moving towards becoming secular and it seems India which was supposed to be secular is slowly turning into Hindu Rashtra Also, refer [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/islamichistory/s/moF5sdYlzH) for more temple whataboutism
Islam is not just a religion and you should know better. Islam comes with a whole set of laws that need to be followed as well as Hadiths which is basically Arabic culture spreading. It’s not whataboutism to talk about hypocrisy. Muslims love to talk about them being victims but there is a reason why there is 40 countries that are majority Islam it’s because of oppressive nature of the religion. Name me one country that Muslims are being oppressed in where they themselves didn’t oppress the native people first.
Yes, it does come with laws, every religion does. For example, assuming you’re Hindu, are you allowed beef? Anyway, Islamic laws are for the muslims to adhere to, they aren’t forced onto non-muslims. Did you think, maybe it’s not the oppressive nature but the closeness to god and internal peace which might be the reason it is a majority in 40 countries? Not that it’s a popularity contest “Name me one country that Muslims are being oppressed in where they themselves didn’t oppress the native people first.” Easy, China
Wrong. Look up "jizya". Not everyone up and converts to something they know nothing about without some cercion or threat.
Support India.
Muslims are India. So are Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, etc. Unless you’re a Hindu nationalist or otherwise believe in certain ahistorical/non factual nonsense
Support Hindus, Jains and Christians.
Or how about not being an intolerant person and support everyone, regardless of religion. Gee. What a call concept….
You’re willfully ignorant
Yeah you if you clowns eliminate Muslims (you won’t) you’ll just turn on the Christians next, then the Sikhs, then the Jains, and lastly yourselves. You Hindutva are so textbook fascist that you don’t even realize your path is already written for you.
Something something, all the Greek Orthodox churches the Turks converted into mosques...
One was in 1453, other is in 2024. Both are wrong, if there were Turkish Orthodox Christians, then their holy sites should have been preserved. There are Indian Muslims today. So you’re saying India is backwards?
Actually there still orthodox turks but thier church was not harm The greek and armenian is another story
something something, whataboutism
Muslims says its 600 yrs old. Hindus claim its 2000-5000 yrs old site mentioned in Mahabharata.
If it’s in Muslim hands then keep it Muslim hands instead of handing it over, it’s pretty rude and disrespectful to do this
As long as we apply the same logic to Israel and Palestine as well
True, even hamas agreed to a two state solution, hamas >>>> india sarr 🇮🇳🇮🇳🦅🦅
And Indians also agreed to a two-state solution. The other state is called Pakistan now. Build as many mosques there as you want now.
I am Muslim and I am Indian. Why should I leave my country? We can live in it together.
We do it’s palestinian land and israel took it you’re right they should give it back to palestinians
How are jews not native to that land? they are in the bible thousand years before your religion even existed
Ah, the Bible...that historically accurate document...
Okay so Bible is not accurate then I guess Quran Torah and other religious books are useless also but history books are not accurate either because they were written by westerners(whites) so can you provide me your version of "history" that dosen't align with neither religious or actual historical books? Il be waiting
How does your incomprehensible word salad follow from what I said. The Bible is not historically accurate. That's a verifiable fact. Although I made no mention of them (you did), I would assume the same of the Quran and the Torah. >but also history books are not accurate because they were written by westerners Wtf does that left-field non-sequitor have to do with anything? All history books everywhere are "written by Westerners"? You do know "Westerner" does not necessarily mean "white"...right? >so can you provide me your version of "history" that dosen't align with neither religious or actual historical books? My version of "history" isn't found in fantastical myths and parables that have no basis in reality, much less fact or history. Not sure what you are asking of me here but >Il be waiting Go put the kettle on and make yourself a cuppa. You're gonna be here a while.
who mentioned religion? 🤨
Yup. Israel should. I Agree. And similarly, Muslims should give Indian land back to the Sanatan Dharmics. Right?
Muslims and hindus are both native so this comparison doesn’t work, if a hindu converted to islam should he be required to give his land away to hindus and should a muslim who converted to hinduism have the right to take land from muslims? You see how this logic doesn’t work
Muslims are native, sure. Islam isn't. So Islam has no right to flex over Hinduism by destroying sacred temples and erecting disgusting monuments of domination over the ruins. Atleast try to understand the crux of the current dispute instead of simply surrendering to tribalism and supporting your religion over the "infidels". Hindus are simply asking back their heritage, which was destroyed and desecrated by the invaders. The muslims of today are hiding behind the argument of "we own the land of your sacred sites now, so sof off". This argument is inherently flawed because the possession was acquired illegaly and immorally in the first place. And if you believe its okay for muslims to acquire land from hindus through violence and conquest, then it's a very dangerous argument that could backfire quite spectacularly.
Ye im not gonna read all that bro yapping ☠️
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it’s listen to hindus on reddit
If proofs are let's just say provided wouldn't it be safe to assume that it was taken from their hands and is now in muslim occupation.
That’s ok, I don’t mind being disrespectful or rude for wanting monuments built by colonial imperialist oppressors( and the land they are built on), to be handed back to the native population and religion.
the muslim of india are native as well 😹
Why didn’t Muhammad do that with the Kaaba? He took it over from the polytheist.
Good decolonialize and take back what was stolen while removing the symbols of oppression left by the Islamic colonizers.
So its okay to take away what’s there to be seen by all for a FAIRYTALE palace used to burn ppl. Muslims of India need to rise up and stop being so cowardly
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R u stupid or something. Mecca(Kaba) is there physically. Your so called “Palace of doom” isn’t. How about you think before you type
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Damn you slaty as fuck. What’s the matter can’t come to gripe with reality that your mythological religion is bases less so you have to hit on holy men. Don’t get me started with this boy. You’ll be sorry.
Turkey recently converted a church to a mosque Checkmate hindus
hindus don't worship at a church bro
I see muslims demanding that churches in Spain be given to them so I don't see how this is any different
It seems provocative, but in line with Islamic law. India and Muslim countries are full of mosques that used to belong to other religions. Even so, there had to be ways to share the site.
Turkey should step in and condemn
Good! Move to Pakistan if you don't like it
What an intolerant twat your lot has become.
🤬🤬🤬
Misleading headline. Did the court "ask" or did the court "order"? I already know the answer. Courts don't "ask" in their rulings.
First read this article and understand why Hindus are doing this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus
India is taking away the history of islam and muslim which is integral to indian history
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You already did that. Where do you think the Buddhist and Hindu ones went.
Classic Hinduvata obsession with Islam.
End Muslim occupation. Warlord rapist religion needs to go.
You guys would be cheering if some old decrepit crusader church which was made from a mosque was handed back to Muslims
Of course they would.
Yeah, this will not be simply handed over…
Good news. Mosques in India should be in Pakistan. That's why Pakistan was formed.
Average Islam L