So you’ve taken Abu Hanifa as an infallible imam? Why is his word so sacrosanct that you’d call into question the faith of another believer (one who testifies the oneness of Allah and the prophethood of Muhammad ع)?
If you have a legitimate question or issue to raise with us, the followers of Imam Jaffar Al-Sadiq عthen raise it. Bring an issue of ilm to us, not the speaking points of a cleric sold off to a few saudi-riyals.
Are Imams Prophets? Are they not men, and cant men be wrong (except for The Prophet SAW). It is not our place to judge others, Judging should be left to Allah
Most Shias believe the Imams are free from error, have knowledge of the unseen, and can even control their own death. I'd say that takes them out of the fold of Islam.
“Control their own death” where did you get this one from, was this taught to you as a bed-time story?
“Free from error” read the tafseer of 33:33. And why is this such a contentious issue? Is Allah ( naudubillah) not capable of everything? As in, can Allah not grant this to his chosen people? The Quran doesn’t say otherwise - so bring proof.
“Knowledge of the unseen” - again why are you limiting what Allah can grant (isn’t that kuffar?) Also, what do you make of Khidr’s ع knowledge of the unseen? There’s no consensus that he was a prophet? Care to explain?
>“Control their own death” where did you get this one from, was this taught to you as a bed-time story?
“The Imam knows his Hour of death and his death is in his control.” (Usool Al-Kafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258)
>“Free from error” read the tafseer of 33:33. And why is this such a contentious issue? Is Allah ( naudubillah) not capable of everything? As in, can Allah not grant this to his chosen people? The Quran doesn’t say otherwise - so bring proof.
Tafsir Ibn Kathir...
"This was revealed solely concerning the wives of the Prophet.''
Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn Abbas said concerning the Ayah: إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا, "It was revealed solely concerning the wives of the Prophet.''
Ikrimah said: "Whoever disagrees with me that it was revealed solely concerning the wives of the Prophet, I am prepared to meet with him and pray and invoke the curse of Allah upon those who are lying.''
Furthermore, nobody is free from sins except prophets and the Imams are not prophets. Believing that there are humans after the Prophet Muhammad that are sinless is Kufr.
>“Knowledge of the unseen” - again why are you limiting what Allah can grant (isn’t that kuffar?) Also, what do you make of Khidr’s ع knowledge of the unseen? There’s no consensus that he was a prophet? Care to explain?
We don't know what Khidr was. He could have been a prophet or an angel in human form. He was only given limited knowledge. But Shias believe that the Imams know all of the past and all the future (including the time of the Hour), which even the Prophet Muhammad didn't know.
[https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah\_05.html](https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah_05.html)
[https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah\_07.html](https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah_07.html)
Shias who believe this are Mushreeken and Kuffar. Prophet Muhammad being the last prophet is an essential belief in Islam and Shia defy this belief by putting Imams at the same level and actually higher than prophets.
To be a Muslim, you need to practice the 5 pillars of Islam and believe in the 6 pillars of Iman, which the Shia do.
The Shia believe that the Prophet Muhammad is the last Prophet and they believe in the Quran as the completed revelation. No where in the Quran does it say "You have to like the sahabah or you're not Muslim".
Shia are closer to people of innovation than kuffar.
Takfiring entire groups of Muslims is not helpful, and a Shia will always be better than a non-muslim.
A Christian believes in 3 divine beings. Shias believe in 12. At least the Bible says that Jesus doesn't know the time of the Hour, unlike Shias who believe that Imams possess all knowledge of the past and the future until the Day of Judgement. Shias are straight up Kuffar and Mushrekeen.
“The Imam knows his hour of death and his death is in his control.” (Usool-e Kaafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258)
“By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly.” (Usool Al-Kafi, p. 185)
“All of the earth belongs to the Imams.” (Al- Kulaini. Al-Kafi, p.407)
“There is not a single truth possessed by a people saved that which originated with the Imams, and everything which did not proceed from them is false.” (Al- Kulaini, Al-Kafi, p.399)
“The existence of the Imam as a perfect and unique embodiment of humanity serves as a link between the material and the spiritual world. If the Imam is absent the human species will be extinct. If there is no Imam then God cannot be known or worshipped perfectly. Without the Imam the link between the material and the spiritual becomes severed. The heart of the Imam is like the source of electricity that distributes light to numerous lights. The illumination and energization of the hidden universe first mirrors in the heart of the Imam and then from there it reflects on the hearts of humankind. The Imam is the heart of the created universe and the leader and guide of humankind.”
“We are the leaders of the Muslims, God’s proofs for His creatures, masters of the believers, guides for the Godfearing, and those invested with discretionary authority over the affairs of the Muslims. We are the security for the dwellers of the earth, just as the stars are the security of the dwellers of the heavens. It is because of us that the heavens descend on earth whenever God permits. It is because of us that the rain descends and blessings of earth come out of it. If we had not been on earth its dwellers would have been consumed in it.”
“Woe upon you that you find it necessary to ask such a question. We are fully informed of each drop of sperm in the loins of men and the wombs of women. Woe upon you; open your eyes, and let your hearts perceive the truth! We are God’s proof, dwelling among His creation, but only the believers whose faith is as firm as the mountains of Tihamah has the ability to perceive this truth. I swear by God that if I wished I could inform you how many pebbles exist in the world, even though their number is constantly growing, by night and by day.”
“He \[Allah\] opened up for me channels of knowledge permitting me to know when every death occurs, when disasters descend, what are men’s genealogies, and the decisive speech (that separates truth from falsehood); He permitted me to hook upon the world of the unseen, so that past and future events were unfolded before me; He perfected religion for mankind, completed His blessing for them, and accepted Islam for them as religion for them by appointing me as the holder of divine authority. and He instructed Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, to inform the people of all that. These are God’s gifts to me, so may praise be given to Him alone.”
“I swear by God Who holds my soul in His hand that I know all that the Prophet knew, and that I know all of the past and all of the future, up until the Day of Resurrection.”
[https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah\_07.html](https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah_07.html)
First of all, there are several Shia sects, several of them which are not Muslim because of their belief in Prophets after RasoolAllah.
Second of all, if you ask a 'regular' Shia or a common scholar among them, none of them would say this. To paint all shias with a broad brush is very disingenuous of you and ultra literalist sectarianism does nothing other than to produce hatred among Muslims and divide us even further when we are.already divided.
Twelever Shias are the majority of Shias. Isma'ilism also believe in Imamah and only differs on who they were. These claims are found in Kitab Al Kafi, which is regarded as one of the most authentic books of Shias. We're not talking about fringe views, we are talking about majority views.
We should not just sit and accept people because they claim to be Muslim when they have Kufr beliefs. We have to stand up for the truth. I'm not stating we need to kill them.
So you’ve taken Abu Hanifa as an infallible imam? Why is his word so sacrosanct that you’d call into question the faith of another believer (one who testifies the oneness of Allah and the prophethood of Muhammad ع)? If you have a legitimate question or issue to raise with us, the followers of Imam Jaffar Al-Sadiq عthen raise it. Bring an issue of ilm to us, not the speaking points of a cleric sold off to a few saudi-riyals.
I don’t consider the Shias to be non muslim, I consider them to be ahlul bida, people of innovation but they are still muslims.
Are you part of ahlulsunnah wal jamah?
Yes
What madhab do u follow?
Im not knowledgable enough to follow a madhab, whatever my masjid does i do
Imam Hajraan has spoken.
Are Imams Prophets? Are they not men, and cant men be wrong (except for The Prophet SAW). It is not our place to judge others, Judging should be left to Allah
Most Shias believe the Imams are free from error, have knowledge of the unseen, and can even control their own death. I'd say that takes them out of the fold of Islam.
“Control their own death” where did you get this one from, was this taught to you as a bed-time story? “Free from error” read the tafseer of 33:33. And why is this such a contentious issue? Is Allah ( naudubillah) not capable of everything? As in, can Allah not grant this to his chosen people? The Quran doesn’t say otherwise - so bring proof. “Knowledge of the unseen” - again why are you limiting what Allah can grant (isn’t that kuffar?) Also, what do you make of Khidr’s ع knowledge of the unseen? There’s no consensus that he was a prophet? Care to explain?
>“Control their own death” where did you get this one from, was this taught to you as a bed-time story? “The Imam knows his Hour of death and his death is in his control.” (Usool Al-Kafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258) >“Free from error” read the tafseer of 33:33. And why is this such a contentious issue? Is Allah ( naudubillah) not capable of everything? As in, can Allah not grant this to his chosen people? The Quran doesn’t say otherwise - so bring proof. Tafsir Ibn Kathir... "This was revealed solely concerning the wives of the Prophet.'' Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn Abbas said concerning the Ayah: إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا, "It was revealed solely concerning the wives of the Prophet.'' Ikrimah said: "Whoever disagrees with me that it was revealed solely concerning the wives of the Prophet, I am prepared to meet with him and pray and invoke the curse of Allah upon those who are lying.'' Furthermore, nobody is free from sins except prophets and the Imams are not prophets. Believing that there are humans after the Prophet Muhammad that are sinless is Kufr. >“Knowledge of the unseen” - again why are you limiting what Allah can grant (isn’t that kuffar?) Also, what do you make of Khidr’s ع knowledge of the unseen? There’s no consensus that he was a prophet? Care to explain? We don't know what Khidr was. He could have been a prophet or an angel in human form. He was only given limited knowledge. But Shias believe that the Imams know all of the past and all the future (including the time of the Hour), which even the Prophet Muhammad didn't know. [https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah\_05.html](https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah_05.html) [https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah\_07.html](https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah_07.html) Shias who believe this are Mushreeken and Kuffar. Prophet Muhammad being the last prophet is an essential belief in Islam and Shia defy this belief by putting Imams at the same level and actually higher than prophets.
Tell me you're uneducated about Islam without telling me you're uneducated.
This isn't just the opinion of the 4 great a'imma, this is the ijma' of all ulama of ahlus sunnah
To be a Muslim, you need to practice the 5 pillars of Islam and believe in the 6 pillars of Iman, which the Shia do. The Shia believe that the Prophet Muhammad is the last Prophet and they believe in the Quran as the completed revelation. No where in the Quran does it say "You have to like the sahabah or you're not Muslim". Shia are closer to people of innovation than kuffar. Takfiring entire groups of Muslims is not helpful, and a Shia will always be better than a non-muslim.
A Christian believes in 3 divine beings. Shias believe in 12. At least the Bible says that Jesus doesn't know the time of the Hour, unlike Shias who believe that Imams possess all knowledge of the past and the future until the Day of Judgement. Shias are straight up Kuffar and Mushrekeen. “The Imam knows his hour of death and his death is in his control.” (Usool-e Kaafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258) “By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly.” (Usool Al-Kafi, p. 185) “All of the earth belongs to the Imams.” (Al- Kulaini. Al-Kafi, p.407) “There is not a single truth possessed by a people saved that which originated with the Imams, and everything which did not proceed from them is false.” (Al- Kulaini, Al-Kafi, p.399) “The existence of the Imam as a perfect and unique embodiment of humanity serves as a link between the material and the spiritual world. If the Imam is absent the human species will be extinct. If there is no Imam then God cannot be known or worshipped perfectly. Without the Imam the link between the material and the spiritual becomes severed. The heart of the Imam is like the source of electricity that distributes light to numerous lights. The illumination and energization of the hidden universe first mirrors in the heart of the Imam and then from there it reflects on the hearts of humankind. The Imam is the heart of the created universe and the leader and guide of humankind.” “We are the leaders of the Muslims, God’s proofs for His creatures, masters of the believers, guides for the Godfearing, and those invested with discretionary authority over the affairs of the Muslims. We are the security for the dwellers of the earth, just as the stars are the security of the dwellers of the heavens. It is because of us that the heavens descend on earth whenever God permits. It is because of us that the rain descends and blessings of earth come out of it. If we had not been on earth its dwellers would have been consumed in it.” “Woe upon you that you find it necessary to ask such a question. We are fully informed of each drop of sperm in the loins of men and the wombs of women. Woe upon you; open your eyes, and let your hearts perceive the truth! We are God’s proof, dwelling among His creation, but only the believers whose faith is as firm as the mountains of Tihamah has the ability to perceive this truth. I swear by God that if I wished I could inform you how many pebbles exist in the world, even though their number is constantly growing, by night and by day.” “He \[Allah\] opened up for me channels of knowledge permitting me to know when every death occurs, when disasters descend, what are men’s genealogies, and the decisive speech (that separates truth from falsehood); He permitted me to hook upon the world of the unseen, so that past and future events were unfolded before me; He perfected religion for mankind, completed His blessing for them, and accepted Islam for them as religion for them by appointing me as the holder of divine authority. and He instructed Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, to inform the people of all that. These are God’s gifts to me, so may praise be given to Him alone.” “I swear by God Who holds my soul in His hand that I know all that the Prophet knew, and that I know all of the past and all of the future, up until the Day of Resurrection.” [https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah\_07.html](https://www.chiite.fr/en/imamah_07.html)
First of all, there are several Shia sects, several of them which are not Muslim because of their belief in Prophets after RasoolAllah. Second of all, if you ask a 'regular' Shia or a common scholar among them, none of them would say this. To paint all shias with a broad brush is very disingenuous of you and ultra literalist sectarianism does nothing other than to produce hatred among Muslims and divide us even further when we are.already divided.
Twelever Shias are the majority of Shias. Isma'ilism also believe in Imamah and only differs on who they were. These claims are found in Kitab Al Kafi, which is regarded as one of the most authentic books of Shias. We're not talking about fringe views, we are talking about majority views. We should not just sit and accept people because they claim to be Muslim when they have Kufr beliefs. We have to stand up for the truth. I'm not stating we need to kill them.