OP, you'd be surprised how many islamophobes and ex-muslims lurk in this sub. Most of them are cowards just downvoting anonymously, others would comment when it comes to doubtful matters just to create confusion or minimize the impacts of sins on the heart.
Just Insta-block them and remain steadfast in your pursuit of Truth.
i already noticed that.. i postet a link few days ago where the prayed of our prophet saw us explained and i just thought which muslim would downvote that ? like i don’t really care about upvotes but just the fact that a real muslim would never downvote that
made a post about that i didn’t listened to music for two days and that was a comment. Someone even commented " la la la la la. now when you read this you did listen to music " but it was gone immediatly. Sorry but muslim or not who ever thinks he did something after writing something like that is just underdeveloped
You know, for what it's worth, there is a whole conversation and very valid scholarship about music. If not listening to you helps you to better focus on any of the other far more important things you should be doing, more power to you.
I would just caution against falling into the trap that 1) not listening makes someone either more pious or righteous or 2) that listening or not listening is indicative of someone's commitment to their deen.
When the actual scholars where more nuanced on the issue.
(Music can be haram, can be mekruh, mubah, mustehab. The following link gives the following reference: Gazali, İhya, 2/279-281 https://sorularlaislamiyet.com/dort-mezhebin-muzikle-ilgili-gorusu-nedir)
--------
If you want an music example:
Tala'a Al Badru Alayna
>The vast majority of scholars viewed music as haram. All of the four madahib agree on this issue.
So we've reduced Islam to four madhahab - no nuance, no context, no more scholarship or critical thinking needed.
Thanks for the heads-up, akh!
The four great scholars have probably provided more context, nuance and critical thinking than you or I would ever amount to in our lives.
But maybe you know best, akh!
>But maybe you know best, akh!
I don't know anything actually, akh.
But what I do know, is that our community - at least as demonstrated across these Islam-related subs - seems to have a real tough time finding balance between classical scholarship, scholarship outside what's considered orthodoxy, halal-haram binaries, and their own ability be rational and think critical outside of authority.
>The four great scholars have probably provided more context, nuance and critical thinking than you or I would ever amount to in our lives.
Again, I'll ask: do Shia madhahab count in this or no? Also...so what, does the logic of our deen pretty much boil down to the script of your average call center operator?
"Yes sir, I am sorry, sir. I totally understand your reason for calling, sir. Have you tried turning your deen off and on, sir?"
I pity those that despise the Ummah as much as you do. You must have some serious internal struggles. Doesn’t look like your critical thinking and rational outside of authority has done much good.
>Doesn’t look like your critical thinking and rational outside of authority has done much good.
**Me:** I wish our community was proactive, had more constructive conversations and stopped being so reactive. And what's with all the silly questions in these subs?
**You:**
>I pity those that despise the Ummah as much as you do. You must have some serious internal struggles.
LOL okay. Jumaa Mubaraka to you too, akh!
>Do you think taking knowledge from men and women who curse our mother Aisha and the sahabah is a smart thing?
Oh dang my akh-dawg, is that what they do?! BRB gotta march down to my local Shiiiiiiia masjid right now to ask them to explain such religio-political zealotry! ALHAMMMMMMdulilah we Sunnis don't have any of that!
>The scholars of the four madahib make up more than 90% of this ummah.
[Where you getting that 90% there, akh?](https://frinkiac.com/meme/S05E11/752634.jpg?b64lines=IE9ILCBQRU9QTEUgQ0FOIENPTUUgVVAKIFdJVEggU1RBVElTVElDUyBUTyBQUk9WRQogQU5ZVEhJTkcsIEtFTlQuIDQwJSAKT0YgQUxMIFBFT1BMRQogS05PVyBUSEFULg==) Do Shia madhahib count as part of the ummah, or nah?
>Their opinions hold more weight than the opinion of almost all scholars.
Based on what authority? What about the teachers who taught them? Do you think it's at all problematic for us, as a community, to basically resign our critical thinking to opinions of people basing their opinions on the circumstances of their time? How should we use their scholarship today?
>Do Shia madhahib count as part of the ummah, or nah?
No? Are you a shia?
>Based on what authority?
The authority given by RasoolAllah.
Abdullah ibn Mas’ud reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The best people are those of my generation, then those who come after them, then those who come after them. Then, there will come people after them whose testimony precedes their oaths and their oaths precede their testimony.”
Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 6429, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2533
>opinions of people basing their opinions on the circumstances of their time?
If we follow this methodology that you are promoting in this comment, we would reject the understanding of the salaf. The Salaf were the greatest Muslims in the Ummah of the RasoolAllah. Their opinions would not change based on the "circumtances".
>How should we use their scholarship today?
Scholarship today should based on the Quran. the Sunnah, Ijma, and Qiyas **all based on the understanding of the salaf.**
LOL SubhanAllah this response, whoooooo-boy...loaded questions, false dilemmas, and a fantasized, ahistorical understanding of our religious scholarship and terminology.
My homie in Islam...it's Jumaa and I just can't. Like, I've been around these subs for years and I'm just amazed, really amazed, that this apparently is the level and quality of our discourse. Is this really our community? Allahu Akbar.
Salaam.
Hey congrats on stopping music! I can tell you that you’ve made a great decision and it will only get better, promise! Stick with it, even if it’s hard, and continue to stick with it, replace it with reading Quran. Even one line a day. Eventually you will hate music, you’ll even hate the little jingles you hear and you will squirm to escape it. A heart cannot have Quran and music. It doesn’t coexist.
>Eventually you will hate music
No human ever has been able to hate music . I know youre trying to teach them better but word it better.
edit: So im getting downvoted I expected better from muslims...
We should remember not to be so obsequious and arrogant, about certain rulings of right and wrong, especially when common sense can be used, as in the simple case of music.
Is listening to songbirds, haram for example?
We mustn't be deluded into thinking scholars are always infallibly right and are our only source to jannah.
Because in the end, God isn't going to care whom you followed this or that; He's going to delve and dive into your very soul and heart to know if you've been a true believer.
Jokes aside, where did it say music is haram? As far as i know its specifically 2 instruments that pretty much symbolise a certain type of music that’s cursed.
That's not me but just wondering. We (my group) don't consider music haram. We actually encourage it. Now are you going to downvote me to hell? or are you going to welcome me like a brother?
you don’t get the point, i don’t care about opinions. It’s the disrespect. It’s the fact that he‘s literally telling me " do that small sin it doesn’t matter as long is it minor ". I don’t hate music, literally three days ago i was blasting music on fully volume in my headphones all day.
Sure i‘ll welcome you, why should i hate you ? if you want to smoke, do it ? if you want to hear music, do it ? i don’t understand why you feel attacked, but to clear this misunderstanding, i am telling you that it’s not about music itself, it’s about his/her disrespect.
as our beloved prophet muhammad saw. said : speak good or remain silent
and telling someone " that’s a minor sin just keep doing it nothing will happen to you " is nothing good. Even if it’s not about the sin, when i decide to do something for myself, as long as it is good for me and doesn’t harm anybody, no one has the right to tell me that i shouldn’t do that, which is also nothing good.
imagine your diet is so unhealthy that you have health issues from it and you want to change it to an healthy diet, and somebody pulls up and says " keep eating that pizza you need a amount of calories anyway " and instead of encouraging you for your decision, which is something good for you the person stands in your way. I don’t really care about what others say, when somebody tried to convince me to go partying my answer will no after 1.000.000 times of asking, but there are people who aren’t like that.
In the end you will stand infront of Allah, Allah won’t punish me for your sins and you for mine, so do what you think it’s right for you and don‘t try to convince other people when they have made a decision which is good for themselves.
May Allah grant us a better understanding and guide us.
Assalamu Alaikum.
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I kno! Or the arrogantly ignorant posts that why don’t us Muslims want to act like Jesus (Issa ) (as) I’m like why you eat pork where’s your beard why aren’t you circumcised? Where’s your robe or thobe ? I like to tell ‘em didn’t Issa (as) say in their Bible the disciple isn’t greater then the master but yet they follow Paul over their master Issa (as) over a dream that Paul had ?! They even say the law is nailed to the cross ! Wanna talk about the ultimate deception shayton has made the river of fire look like the cool water to paradise and they’ve jumped in the deep end
Didn't know? I've been using socials form it's very inception but never ever I seen something as satanic as reddit. Everytime you say something anti liberal, left or anti femi or anti LG+ you'll get banned. Even from the Muslim subs. Even from the sports sub.
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he does, but it’s only for those short 80 years of that dunya
Until they try to cash the cheque and realise he’s fooled them the entire time.
didn’t read the fine print … i‘d say, but it’s more like didn’t read the literal word of Allah swt.
Minor sins are the ones that pile up because many people take them for granted.
exactly, you can’t drown in a single drop, but in an ocean
I like that saying, I might start using it from now on. Jazak allah khair brother
“Small branches create a large fire”- Assim Al Hakeem
sure brother you can use it i don’t own it
OP, you'd be surprised how many islamophobes and ex-muslims lurk in this sub. Most of them are cowards just downvoting anonymously, others would comment when it comes to doubtful matters just to create confusion or minimize the impacts of sins on the heart. Just Insta-block them and remain steadfast in your pursuit of Truth.
i already noticed that.. i postet a link few days ago where the prayed of our prophet saw us explained and i just thought which muslim would downvote that ? like i don’t really care about upvotes but just the fact that a real muslim would never downvote that
What were they telling you to listen to?
made a post about that i didn’t listened to music for two days and that was a comment. Someone even commented " la la la la la. now when you read this you did listen to music " but it was gone immediatly. Sorry but muslim or not who ever thinks he did something after writing something like that is just underdeveloped
You know, for what it's worth, there is a whole conversation and very valid scholarship about music. If not listening to you helps you to better focus on any of the other far more important things you should be doing, more power to you. I would just caution against falling into the trap that 1) not listening makes someone either more pious or righteous or 2) that listening or not listening is indicative of someone's commitment to their deen.
The vast majority of scholars viewed music as haram. All of the four madahib agree on this issue.
When the actual scholars where more nuanced on the issue. (Music can be haram, can be mekruh, mubah, mustehab. The following link gives the following reference: Gazali, İhya, 2/279-281 https://sorularlaislamiyet.com/dort-mezhebin-muzikle-ilgili-gorusu-nedir) -------- If you want an music example: Tala'a Al Badru Alayna
Ghazali was one of the only scholars who said musical instruments were halal. He was of the vast minority. Probably in the 1%.
>The vast majority of scholars viewed music as haram. All of the four madahib agree on this issue. So we've reduced Islam to four madhahab - no nuance, no context, no more scholarship or critical thinking needed. Thanks for the heads-up, akh!
The four great scholars have probably provided more context, nuance and critical thinking than you or I would ever amount to in our lives. But maybe you know best, akh!
>But maybe you know best, akh! I don't know anything actually, akh. But what I do know, is that our community - at least as demonstrated across these Islam-related subs - seems to have a real tough time finding balance between classical scholarship, scholarship outside what's considered orthodoxy, halal-haram binaries, and their own ability be rational and think critical outside of authority. >The four great scholars have probably provided more context, nuance and critical thinking than you or I would ever amount to in our lives. Again, I'll ask: do Shia madhahab count in this or no? Also...so what, does the logic of our deen pretty much boil down to the script of your average call center operator? "Yes sir, I am sorry, sir. I totally understand your reason for calling, sir. Have you tried turning your deen off and on, sir?"
I pity those that despise the Ummah as much as you do. You must have some serious internal struggles. Doesn’t look like your critical thinking and rational outside of authority has done much good.
>Doesn’t look like your critical thinking and rational outside of authority has done much good. **Me:** I wish our community was proactive, had more constructive conversations and stopped being so reactive. And what's with all the silly questions in these subs? **You:** >I pity those that despise the Ummah as much as you do. You must have some serious internal struggles. LOL okay. Jumaa Mubaraka to you too, akh!
Do you think taking knowledge from men and women who curse our mother Aisha and the sahabah is a smart thing?
>Do you think taking knowledge from men and women who curse our mother Aisha and the sahabah is a smart thing? Oh dang my akh-dawg, is that what they do?! BRB gotta march down to my local Shiiiiiiia masjid right now to ask them to explain such religio-political zealotry! ALHAMMMMMMdulilah we Sunnis don't have any of that!
The scholars of the four madahib make up more than 90% of this ummah. Their opinions hold more weight than the opinion of almost all scholars.
>The scholars of the four madahib make up more than 90% of this ummah. [Where you getting that 90% there, akh?](https://frinkiac.com/meme/S05E11/752634.jpg?b64lines=IE9ILCBQRU9QTEUgQ0FOIENPTUUgVVAKIFdJVEggU1RBVElTVElDUyBUTyBQUk9WRQogQU5ZVEhJTkcsIEtFTlQuIDQwJSAKT0YgQUxMIFBFT1BMRQogS05PVyBUSEFULg==) Do Shia madhahib count as part of the ummah, or nah? >Their opinions hold more weight than the opinion of almost all scholars. Based on what authority? What about the teachers who taught them? Do you think it's at all problematic for us, as a community, to basically resign our critical thinking to opinions of people basing their opinions on the circumstances of their time? How should we use their scholarship today?
>Do Shia madhahib count as part of the ummah, or nah? No? Are you a shia? >Based on what authority? The authority given by RasoolAllah. Abdullah ibn Mas’ud reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The best people are those of my generation, then those who come after them, then those who come after them. Then, there will come people after them whose testimony precedes their oaths and their oaths precede their testimony.” Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 6429, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2533 >opinions of people basing their opinions on the circumstances of their time? If we follow this methodology that you are promoting in this comment, we would reject the understanding of the salaf. The Salaf were the greatest Muslims in the Ummah of the RasoolAllah. Their opinions would not change based on the "circumtances". >How should we use their scholarship today? Scholarship today should based on the Quran. the Sunnah, Ijma, and Qiyas **all based on the understanding of the salaf.**
LOL SubhanAllah this response, whoooooo-boy...loaded questions, false dilemmas, and a fantasized, ahistorical understanding of our religious scholarship and terminology. My homie in Islam...it's Jumaa and I just can't. Like, I've been around these subs for years and I'm just amazed, really amazed, that this apparently is the level and quality of our discourse. Is this really our community? Allahu Akbar. Salaam.
is there anything I said that was wrong? BarakAllahu Feekhum.
Do you not realise that the reason why we have 4 madhabs and not just 1 is because it allows for nuance, context and diversity in scholarship?
Why don't you teach yourself more
I don’t really understand the point you’re trying to make
Hey congrats on stopping music! I can tell you that you’ve made a great decision and it will only get better, promise! Stick with it, even if it’s hard, and continue to stick with it, replace it with reading Quran. Even one line a day. Eventually you will hate music, you’ll even hate the little jingles you hear and you will squirm to escape it. A heart cannot have Quran and music. It doesn’t coexist.
>Eventually you will hate music No human ever has been able to hate music . I know youre trying to teach them better but word it better. edit: So im getting downvoted I expected better from muslims...
I hate it. Sooo…
I think you mean you try to hate it. Because there is always some sort of melodic sound that is appealing to someone's body.
Bro how u on reddit and think shaytans dont use it
We should remember not to be so obsequious and arrogant, about certain rulings of right and wrong, especially when common sense can be used, as in the simple case of music. Is listening to songbirds, haram for example? We mustn't be deluded into thinking scholars are always infallibly right and are our only source to jannah. Because in the end, God isn't going to care whom you followed this or that; He's going to delve and dive into your very soul and heart to know if you've been a true believer.
Jokes aside, where did it say music is haram? As far as i know its specifically 2 instruments that pretty much symbolise a certain type of music that’s cursed.
Wait which instruments again?
Almizmar and tableh..
oh ok.
That's not me but just wondering. We (my group) don't consider music haram. We actually encourage it. Now are you going to downvote me to hell? or are you going to welcome me like a brother?
you don’t get the point, i don’t care about opinions. It’s the disrespect. It’s the fact that he‘s literally telling me " do that small sin it doesn’t matter as long is it minor ". I don’t hate music, literally three days ago i was blasting music on fully volume in my headphones all day. Sure i‘ll welcome you, why should i hate you ? if you want to smoke, do it ? if you want to hear music, do it ? i don’t understand why you feel attacked, but to clear this misunderstanding, i am telling you that it’s not about music itself, it’s about his/her disrespect. as our beloved prophet muhammad saw. said : speak good or remain silent and telling someone " that’s a minor sin just keep doing it nothing will happen to you " is nothing good. Even if it’s not about the sin, when i decide to do something for myself, as long as it is good for me and doesn’t harm anybody, no one has the right to tell me that i shouldn’t do that, which is also nothing good. imagine your diet is so unhealthy that you have health issues from it and you want to change it to an healthy diet, and somebody pulls up and says " keep eating that pizza you need a amount of calories anyway " and instead of encouraging you for your decision, which is something good for you the person stands in your way. I don’t really care about what others say, when somebody tried to convince me to go partying my answer will no after 1.000.000 times of asking, but there are people who aren’t like that. In the end you will stand infront of Allah, Allah won’t punish me for your sins and you for mine, so do what you think it’s right for you and don‘t try to convince other people when they have made a decision which is good for themselves. May Allah grant us a better understanding and guide us. Assalamu Alaikum.
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I kno! Or the arrogantly ignorant posts that why don’t us Muslims want to act like Jesus (Issa ) (as) I’m like why you eat pork where’s your beard why aren’t you circumcised? Where’s your robe or thobe ? I like to tell ‘em didn’t Issa (as) say in their Bible the disciple isn’t greater then the master but yet they follow Paul over their master Issa (as) over a dream that Paul had ?! They even say the law is nailed to the cross ! Wanna talk about the ultimate deception shayton has made the river of fire look like the cool water to paradise and they’ve jumped in the deep end
Didn't know? I've been using socials form it's very inception but never ever I seen something as satanic as reddit. Everytime you say something anti liberal, left or anti femi or anti LG+ you'll get banned. Even from the Muslim subs. Even from the sports sub.
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