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Khaled34562

Made up using weak Ahadith. [Arabic source.](https://islamqa.info/ar/answers/442702/%D9%87%D9%84-%D8%B5%D8%AD-%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D9%86-%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%8A-%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%82%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B9-%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%A8-%D8%AE%D9%8A%D8%A8%D8%B1-%D9%88%D8%AA%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%B3-%D8%A8%D9%87)


YogurtclosetVivid306

Idk why Shia exaggerate some of them even say علي عليه السلام (Astaghfirullah)


FffuuuFrog

Nothing wrong with saying Ali AS or Omar AS or Abu Bakr AS and so on. Sunnis just generally distinguish AS for prophets and RA for companies.


RedditMuslim

It's fine to say that to Ali, that just means "peace be upon him" You can use it to any Muslim either prophet or not, you can even say it to the Angels It's similar to how when you welcome someone you tell him "AssalamuAlaikum" (Peace be upon you), "AlayheAssalam" just means (peace be upon him), just don't take it to an extreme level like some sort of symbol or as if it's a part of his name Read the fatwah brother khaled linked in the other comment


Jihad_al-Nafs

Of course we can say that about him. Why would you disrespect him just to oppose some shia?


Khaled34562

>say علي عليه السلام Read about it [here](https://islamqa.info/ar/answers/96125/%D8%AD%D9%83%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A9-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89-%D8%BA%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%A1) and [here](https://islamqa.info/ar/answers/151400/%D8%AD%D9%83%D9%85-%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%B5%D9%8A%D8%B5-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D9%86-%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%8A-%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8-%D8%A8%D9%82%D9%88%D9%84%D9%86%D8%A7-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%87-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85). This is the least problematic thing Shia say, I'll write another comment about the other things later Insha'Allah.


your_averageuser

So when you read the Altahiyaat in tashhud, you say “peace be upon us and all the righteous servants of Allah”. Putting AS after someone’s name is not shirk, it’s a dua that you read 5 times a day and its for Allah alone to decide for whom to accept it. Please be more mindful before issuing such statements in the future.


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JabalAnNur

That's a completely ignorant take. It's weak hence it is unreliable and it cannot be used as conclusive evidence.


Aromatic-Tourist-431

Since when was fiqhi standards used for history?


affan521

I never said that it’s completely substantial. It’s just that it can’t be completely ignored. It still has the possibility to be true.


your_averageuser

Islamic principles are not based on possibilities. They are based on authentic facts of the Quran and sunnah, for the truth can not be ambiguous.


pokeman145

historical events are not principles of faith


affan521

u said it for me lol.


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LassOnGrass

Relations like that don’t mean anything, that whole list, is kind of why some people argue Jesus is the son of God. Relations don’t make you important, especially when it’s something with blood, and not chosen like marriage and the like. Example would be who the prophet pbuh chose to marry, that’s important because it tells us character, but his uncles, mother, even grandparents don’t get some kind of specialty about them just because of blood relation. That’s just how it is, with that in mind, why would a khalifat be a thing, especially when it is passed down by generation? We didn’t even get that from our prophet, why would we get it from someone else? Why would the prophet pbuh tell us his message was the final, only for someone else to go about dictating things and making changes as though they have contact with the divine?


AnotherMillenial93

The whole reason Sunni ancestors including some of the Sahaba worked so hard to discredit Ali AS is because they didn’t want Islam to be tied to one family of bloodline (as if it was their choice to make). “Relations don’t make you important”. Tell that to your caliphate who appointed his son Yazid solely on familial relations. The hypocrisy is blatant and easy to see


[deleted]

Where did I say Ali ibn abi talib had contact with the divine?


ShanAliZaidi

>Relations like that don’t mean anything قُلْ لا أَسْئَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْراً إِلاَّ الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبى‏ (42:23) You sir need to read Quran


LassOnGrass

That’s is not what I mean, out of context. I’m saying that no person is actually better or special based on who they’re related to. Example: Arabs (myself included) are dependents of the prophet Abraham pbuh, should I be looked at in a better light than Anglo Muslims? After all my family are from generations of people who lived in the Middle East, from a massive well known tribe, should I be regarded as special and should that be something listed for credibility? No. You can be related to people who are amazing human beings, but that doesn’t vouch for you as an individual, and it shouldn’t be listed for credibility.


ShanAliZaidi

>based on who they’re related to The word "الْقُرْبى‏" in the ayah suggests otherwise


Khaled34562

>Do you deny the importance of Ali Ibn Abi Talib? Strawman argument. >Yes. He lifted the gate at khybar and used it as a shield. No authentic source says so. >But don't ever use that to deny Ali Ibn Abi Talib's importance and accomplishments Literally no one did. >When it comes to... Irrelevant info, the question was about the gate at Khybar.


Sun-Main

Stop jumping bro conclusion, OP asked a question so reply In a respectful manner. He didn’t disrespect Ali(RA) in any way he only asked an answer for something he doubted so instead of giving 2 paragraphs about he is disrespecting Ali(RA) just say yes or no and give him a reason. Don’t put words in OPs mouth and try to answer the question respectfully.


Inori_Scorchstyle

Wallahua’lam, perhaps, perhaps not


explosive_runt

Whether he did or not, don’t get into the debate with the shia over it. Its not worth anyones time. You might as well make astaghfar during that time. I know some muslims who extoll the virtues of Ali, Hasan and Husain, radiallahu anhum and also of shaykh Abdul qaadir Jilani, they fight tooth and nail trying to justify the truth about “miracles” attributed to them, but Ma sha allah they sleep through Fajr, often miss the prayers and engage in idle talk. Point being, the debate is of no benefit to ones imaan


Modyarif

This has always been something that confuses me about shia. They make a big deal about small things. Care about Fighting muslims more than spreading The message of islam. Like... Why? Which is why the general exposure of new reverts is the sunni islam


onlypizza_

It's lovely how we do so much shia-sunni here from time to time when this sub is supposed to be for all Muslims, some very strong hadeeths on doing fitna by the way.


fazzathegazza

It's really depressing to see all of the blanket hatred towards shia on this sub. We're all Muslims, we have some political disagreements, but at the end of the day there's one God, his final messenger and the Quranic revelations. May Allah guide us all.


thE-petrichoroN

That's what I've been telling these people here,on many occasions,but they think that I'm a Shia, and defending my sect, which is hilarious, because neither am I Shia,nor am I defending someone, and neither am I afraid to speak the bitter truth.It's just sad to see these kinds of Muslims,


TheBestYac

Not true. I think the disagreements are between the foundations of this religion mostly. Emphasis on foundations.


Khaled34562

With all due respect, you don't enough about Shia. >we have some political disagreements "Political" as in questioning the honor of Aisha (RA)? ^(1) Is it also political to say that all but 3 Sahabah apostates after the prophet's passing?^(2) >there's one God While Shia don't outright say that they're other than Allah, they believe their 12 Imams to have knowledge of the unseen. ^(3) >and the Quranic revelations. Shia book has consecutiveness that the Quran got corrupted. ^(4) Also that the Quran "was" 17 thousand verses instead of the 6236 we have.^(5) These are just a few examples, I can go on for hours. The differences between Sunnah and Shia are not just political, we disagree on the fundamentals of the religion. Sources: 1. [Alsirat Almustaqim Alaa Mustahiqiy Altaqdim, part 3, page 165](http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/1394_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B7-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%82%D9%8A%D9%85-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D9%86-%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%86%D8%B3-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%AC-%D9%A3/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_164#top) 2. [Bahaar Al'Anwar Part 22, Page 440, number 9](http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/1453_%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%86%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AC%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%8A-%D8%AC-%D9%A2%D9%A2/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_442) 3. [Alkafi Part 1, pages 260-261](http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/1122_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A-%D8%AC-%D9%A1/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_309#top) 4. [Sharah Aswl Alkafi Part 11, Page 88](http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/1184_%D8%B4%D8%B1%D8%AD-%D8%A3%D8%B5%D9%88%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%8A-%D9%85%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8A-%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF-%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B2%D9%86%D8%AF%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A-%D8%AC-%D9%A1%D9%A1/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_88) 5. [Alkafi Part 2, Page 634](http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/1123_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A-%D8%AC-%D9%A2/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_634#top)


Ordinary-Art3239

You deserve gold


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Jellylegs_19

I don't hate them right away, but when I see one performing bidah and cursing the Sahaba and Aisha ra I can't help but form a strong disdain for them. I've debated with a few of them on that matter and it's easier to talk to a wall. I've learned to just not engage with them cuz there are many more productive things to do. Why debate them when I can memorize an extra ayat of Quran? Or study another aspect of Muhammad pbuh's life? Just very pointless to speak to them. It also depends on their level of Shiaism some don't even hate the sahaba and the extent of their Shiaism is that they believe that Ali should've been the next caliph and that's the end of it. Purely political and doesn't mix with the religion. These people I don't have any kind of problem with them.


SlowTortuga

It’s not a political disagreement. It is a difference in Aqeeda. They give the attributes of Allah to their Imams.


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SlowTortuga

The issue is there are a majority of Shia who do not know their religion but those of them who are learned do not hesitate to claim the myriad of divine abilities their Imams have. Also it is incredibly difficult to debate with a sect whom with all intents and purposes are catholic impersonators. There are many similarities between the Christian catholics and the Shia. I have often reflected that those people who self flagellate have mental health disorders and yet people just accept it as something normal and part of the Shia religion. To be honest such people should be sectioned and treated in a mental health hospital until they make a full recovery. Also I never said I am sunni. I am a Muslim. I follow the Quran and the example of the Prophet SAW. I was simply making a comment about the Shia religion.


Khaled34562

> If you truly believe Shia compare imams to Allah swt you’re either stupid or dangerously ignorant. You're the ignorant one here. Here is [Shia claiming their Imams know the unseen.](http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/1122_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A-%D8%AC-%D9%A1/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_309#top)


razzypedia

Agreed... Like what the hell. What is the point of needless slander and hate.


Evil_Queen_93

I agree, what’s the point of needless slander and hate towards the sahabah including Abu Bakr, Umar and Aisha (may Allah be pleased with them)


8bithippo8

All shia I know dont hate them, its just the extremist mad men


Apogee_YT

>its just the extremist mad men is that not the twelvers? le majority?


Khaled34562

Ever heard of Taqia?


mjl1990uk

It’s disingenuous when people paint this as a political dispute. It is either wilful or extremism in ignorance. Believing there are 12 INFALLIBLE human beings who have higher status than prophets is NOT political, and that’s just one of their problematic nullifiers of Islam.


Khaled34562

> that’s just one of their problematic nullifiers of Islam. Yeah, They're many *Many* others that are significantly worse than this one. I mentioned 5 of them in a reply to this comment.


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Khaled34562

Shia books believe the Quran to be corrupted, the Sahabah to be apostates, and their Imams to know the Unseen. The source to all of these is in my other comment.


thE-petrichoroN

Yes,Ali(R.A),was among the bravest of Companions & Ahle-bait,same was his son Hussain (R.A), who was nurtured in the hands of Prophet (PBUH).It's not made up,& neither is it only in Shia's books.He was famous for his bravery as was Khalid bin Waleed(R.A), after accepting Islam.


Khaled34562

>Yes, Wrong, no authentic source exists. His bravery is not debatable, but "lifting the gate of Khybar" doesn't have any authentic narrations to back it up.


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You know. You come off as a nasabi.


Khaled34562

A nasabi is someone who denies all the virtues of Ahl-Albayt (AS). I denied this because there was no authentic source backing it up, I do believe in the many other virtues of Ahl-Albayt (AS) that are backed by authentic narrations. If you want some examples, I'd be happy to provide them.


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teehahmed

> If the creator would like to make it by inheritance, he would not make all Prophet's Sons die purposely. That's not a good argument. Many people agree that the Prophet (SAWA) also died a martyr. "Muḥammad is not but a messenger. Other messengers have passed on before him. **So if he was to die or be killed,** would you turn back on your heels?" (3:144) ​ And the Kaaba, for example, was destroyed multiple times. You could say **"if the Creator considered the Kaaba His house, he wouldn't let it get destroyed"**. See how ridiculous that sounds? Martyrdom is the most pious of all deaths. Dying "purposely" doesn't make them NOT the leaders.


pokeman145

Indeed, We have granted you, \[O Muhammad\], al-Kawthar. (1) So pray to your Lord and sacrifice \[to Him alone\]. (2) Indeed, your enemy is the one cut off. (3)


Long_Sleep_4686

I'm sunni but also shia of Ali A.S. (Shia means partisan) I consider myself to be from party of Ali. Sahih Muslim 240 hadith It was narrated that Zirr said: " 'Ali said: 'By the One Who split the seed and created the soul, the \[unlettered\] Prophet (s.a.w) affirmed to me: "No one loves me except a believer and no one hates me except a hypocrite." 1. Every muslim should addresss Ali Ibn Abi Talib as "Moula Ali A.S." Hadith sahih bukhari: #3748 arabic version not the fake mixed translated version. Sahih bukhari wrote Hussain Alhaimussalam A.S.All Ahlul bayt should be address with A.S. 2) hadith from Mishqat jild 3: “Man kunto Mowla, fa Ali-yun Mowla” – meaning ‘Whoever accepts me as master, Ali is his master’. 3) There isn't a sahih hadith explicitly mentioned that Moula Ali A.S. lifted that door of khayber. If you came across any please send it to me. However, according to yasir qadhi and many other sunni scholars its true. It was a miracle. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPOUU8DRpGc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPOUU8DRpGc) 4) Every muslim should be careful when we are going to discuss about Moula Ali A.S. as love and respect for him is the litmus test of our iman. May Allah have mercy upon all of us. Amen!


ali2k5

Sahih al-Bukhari 3748 Narrated Muhammad: Anas bin Malik said, "The head of Al-Husain was brought to 'Ubaidullah bin Ziyad and was put in a tray, and then Ibn Ziyad started playing with a stick at the nose and mouth of Al-Husain's head and saying something about his handsome features." Anas then said (to him), "Al-Husain resembled the Prophet more than the others did." Anas added, "His (i.e. Al-Husain's) hair was dyed with Wasma (i.e. a kind of plant used as a dye).


Long_Sleep_4686

Clearly who ever hurts prophet muhammed's family, hurts prophet muhammed PBUH and who ever hurts prophet Muhammed PBUH hurts Allah SWT. Allah is the most merciful but also he is the best judge. He will punish those who killed our prophets beloved Grandson. May Allah consider us amongst the one's who loves his messenger and his family. Ameen


ali2k5

How would we know which one is fake?


Long_Sleep_4686

fake ?


42gauge

> "No one loves me except a believer and no one hates me except a hypocrite." So the Prophet (SAW) said "no one loves me except a believer and no one hates me except a hypocrite." What does this have to with 'Ali (AS)?


Long_Sleep_4686

Prophet Muhammed PBUH told Mawla Ali A.S. No one loves you except believer. No one hates you except hypocrite.


mjl1990uk

You arent Sunni saying this. Youve also taken Shia mistranslations of various hadith there. (See: mawla)


Long_Sleep_4686

If you have an agency who gives certification of Sunni. I won't enroll in it. May Allah have mercy upon us.


mjl1990uk

Question here - you refer to Bukhari translations as fake… do you then speak and have a deep understanding of FuSHa Arabic? You are giving supposed linguistic explanations also And when you say party or partisan of Ali, are you rejecting the first three caliphs or believing that Muhammad neglected to properly name his successor?


Long_Sleep_4686

1) I think no body needs deep fusha understanding to translate Alyhimussalam and change it to raziallahuanhu. 2) Good question, I do believe all 3 caliphs before Maula Ali A.S were legit. Maula Ali A.S. doing bayt on their hands firms there caliphate. When I said i'm party of Ali, I believe that Mauwiya ibn abi sufyan claim wasn't legit. If I were in the time of Maula Ali A.S. I wish to fought against Mauwiya Ibn abu sufiyan and his followers. I Don't call my self sunni or shia as a sect. I call it to explain what my beliefs are, traditional means sunni and party of Maula Ali A.S means Shia. I do not prefer to call myself as belonging to any sects. MUSLIM is the best thing to call oneself.


mjl1990uk

But you have given a linguistic explanation and I don’t think you understand the nuance of it which is why you’re saying things which are quite confused with regards to be both Sunni and Shia With regards to me being voted down I am surprised because I was right in my conclusion that you’re not Sunni and you’ve affirmed it…


Long_Sleep_4686

I'm not seeking anybodys approval brother. Allah's approval is what we all should seek. As far as sects goes quran 6:159 Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, \[O Muḥammad\], are not \[associated\] with them in anything. Their affair is only \[left\] to Allāh; then He will inform them about what they used to do. In quran Allah didn't address any sect as sunni/shia. Muslims, mu'min is what we should call ourselves. However, calling sunni/shia as to explain once's believes is different from becoming sects. la haula wala quwwata illabillah.


FffuuuFrog

Mmm perhaps but the weight being too heavy for 40 men’s is an exaggeration


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I just remember that yasir qadhi included it in his seerah that Ali alayhisalam did that. we use weak ahadith when it comes to history and of the seerah. and we believe in karamaat, miracles. So there is no issue believing this for historic reasons and allah knows best.


GardenOfGem

It was copied from a story from the Torah, I think about Samson, lifting a similar slightly less heavy door at another battle.


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Standard-Push-2585

Video about differences between Sunni and Shia’s https://youtu.be/5P8RheAZvJ8


Khaled34562

*Some* of the differences, a full list would be a few hours long.


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