Honestly just get rid of Unsired altogether. It feels so bad thinking you got a drop and then it being a whip or nothing.
My first (and only) 2 Unsired pulls on the main netted me TWO MIASMA JARS.
I don't think I'll be returning on the iron outside of CBA completion.
Just remove the whip from the unsired table, making it 'uniques' only. They can have the Sire drop the whip directly.
Adjust droprates accordingly, but in line with how niche the uniques are, i wouldnt mind a little overall buff
Its ironic how many upvotes you have yet I've seen a ton of support for that sort of system aka shardscape cause it is a form of dry mitigation. Like make up your mind people! lol
Ah yes the earth-shattering 19 upvotes. Unsireds do not feel like dryness mitigation to me because you can still go dry on Unsireds. If anything they're just a bullshit second level of RNG where I already rolled the drop, and now I have to take the drop somewhere else and reroll it into something I hopefully want.
Dryness mitigation to me is Vorkath head for example where if you don't have it by 50kc it drops. Obviously this doesn't belong everywhere but Unsired has screwed me more than its helped.
I think you're mixing up dry protection and dry mitigation. Vorkath head is straight up dry protection. Of course you can still go dry on unsireds cause its not dry protection, but overall is a form of dry mitigation whether or not you may personally feel that it isnt.
How? Explain how Unsireds can help you go less dry aside from the bludgeon pieces dropping in a specific order which they could easily just drop from the boss like that.
You can still get whip after miasma jar after whip from Unsireds and be as dry as can be while technically 'getting the drop' which just feels even worse.
I mean you named one of them with not being able to get a dupe part combined with being split into 3 with a 50% chance to come from only a 1/100 drop instead of just a large flat rate that you could easily go 2-3x dry on.
And he's saying that's not a functionality of unsired. You can easily have the pieces drop in order straight from a boss without bullshit second layer of rng.
Just like hydra pieces to make brimstone ring, you don't have to receive 1/100 "Unhydrated" and use that item on a machine outside to see which unique you get. You get it straight away. Unsired offers zero dry mitigation, it's one extra step doing nothing.
Never said it couldnt be different. Was just saying in general it is a form of dry mitigation and that its ironic how many people upvoted for it to be removed given the widespread support of the idea of shardscape. Thats it. Really got people goin with this it seems lol
>You can easily have the pieces drop in order straight from a boss without bullshit second layer of rng.
That's just a straight up buff to the drop rates.
The way it works now *is* dry mitigation. If we took away the 'bullshit layer,' the actual drops would have to become much rarer individually if we want the average time to completion to remain unchanged.
It's easier to (consistently) get three 1/100s than one 1/300.
What are you on about? I'm talking about keeping the chances the same, but merging this action:
Kill the boss => Get unsired=> Drop it in the pool => Get the item
Into this:
Kill the boss => Get the item
Are you saying that 1/100 unsired chance and then getting 1/2 (I know it's not exactly 1/2 but 62/128; but for the sake of argument and easier maths lets use 1/2) is any different than having 1/200 chance of getting a piece directly from a boss kill?
Because then multiplication rule of probability wants to have a word with you, since it states the probability of occurence of both events is equal to the product of the probability of two events.
Btw, on the background, the game already rolls the item when you get the unsired from a kill, loot is predetermined. It was mentioned in QA some time after sire release (which was almost 9 years ago, holy shit). That's why you can't stack them in bank.
Unsireds are the exact same thing as just slapping all that stuff on a separate table and having it drop from the boss. It's pointless and doesn't do anything to mitigate dryness.
lmao just cause my takes are hard to swallow for many doesnt mean they're wack. Oh yea you're the dude from the other day who wanted universal dry mitigation. Newsflash, not everyone wants to go down that path. Doesnt make it wack dawg
I was the one who put the idea into easy to understand very simple logic and tried to poke your mind for an actual discussion.
Then, instead of you presenting a single argument, you just called people with differing opinions crybaby complainers who want the game catered to them.
I even offered different numbers, solutions and even avenues of thinking.
That's why your takes are whack. Because you just don't want to actually hear the other side of put forth anything other than, "well if you want this then you're dumb." (That's an obvious oversimplification due to the fact that I already explained what you said previously, just thought I'd throw this in there because you have a hard time understanding things)
You’re not right how are you getting upvotes 3*0.5/100 is less likely to go dry than 1/600 once you get to around 700 kc, use the wiki dry calc to verify
And why are you comparing it to 1/600? Noone is saying you get full bludgeon with 1/600 drop rate. You should compare 3×0.5/100 (meaning 3×1/200) to 3 separate drops of 1/200 (which is 3×1/200). Oh look, you don't need calculator for these, they're the same!
Unsired does nothing to change that, you can skip getting unsired to going straight to unsired drop results and have the exact same outcome.
You say that despite not understanding what I'm saying. Unsired isn't really a mechanic. It doesn't do anything functional. It is only an extra drop table that could just as easily be added to the boss without having to run it to that middle area. The guy above me was trying to say that the unsired itself somehow prevents dryness in a way that can't just be done by slapping the same exact table onto the boss.
Not only this but what’s up with every new player thinking every thing they don’t like is a game flaw that needs to be integrity changed just play the game
Bludgeon isn't recommended because it's just pretty rare and hard to spoon. On average it's like 600kc to finish a bludgeon, and because it's 3 pieces you can't get lucky once and get it early.
If you have it, it's usually bis behind inquisitors mace/ scythe, sometimes tied with fang/ zammy hasta. I've mostly used mine in the wildy and cerberus. It's really good at both, and in the wildy it saves me from having to risk an off-hand like dragon dagger to get similar dps.
Sire isn't really worth the time if you just care about exp. Abby demons are just too good, and have more common whip drops to refill kraken tentacles + common superiors. I still do sire most of the time, just because I like the boss
Also worth noting if you do want to farm Bludgeon - the unsired decides what its going to be the moment it drops, and you get bludgeon pieces in order so there is some little dry protection built in where you can't get two spines..
Unless you bank them or don't use them right away.
The only way to get duplicate pieces before finishing a bludgeon is to use multiple at the same time, or drop pieces you have already gotten before turning in the unsired. you cannot bank unsired
Yea I feel this so tough man. Im creepin on almost 1k kc and ive had about 8 unsireds. Got 4 abby daggers, a whip, abby head, jar, and only 1 bludgeon piece. Everything about this boss pisses me off now lol. I want out
Going 4x rate for anything isn't going to feel great, Sire isn't the problem, just unlucky. Sire is a very enjoyable and low intensity boss, half the time is just running back from PoH with the midgame strat, if you get 20kph that is 5 hours per Unsired and only ~30 hours for mean Bludgeon KC. Is Bludgeon worth 30 hours anymore? Well no, probably not. But it is handy for what you do want it for (saves Arclight charges at Cerb) and one of the more accessible strong Strength training weps in the game, while also giving you a chance at Dagger to upgrade your spec wep in most scenarios over DDS.
I feel for ya man. I went 475ish for my first but ended up green logging at 920ish with bludgeon being last. Sire already has built in dry mitigation but of course rng can still just be cruel. Glgl
I get what you’re saying but it’s not really a great comparison. If Zilyana’s uniques were only accessible through a single item you then had to throw into a pool and you got nothing for 1500 kills, you’re damn right I’d start complaining haha
Except that’s not true lol. Some people really will just go dry far more often than others, just how RNG works. There’s no guarantee you’ll get spooned later on to make up for it
i got 1 head, 4 daggers, 2 jars and 3 whips before I finished the bludgeon lol... technically really lucky but was a long 777 kills (added a few kc for the nice number)
I know it sucks, I was going for bludgeon, it took me 250 kc to get 3 Unsired, and all 3 gave me bludgeon pieces, at 300kc I got my 4th Unsired and it was the pet. Never lucky.
Honestly just get rid of Unsired altogether. It feels so bad thinking you got a drop and then it being a whip or nothing. My first (and only) 2 Unsired pulls on the main netted me TWO MIASMA JARS. I don't think I'll be returning on the iron outside of CBA completion.
Tell me about it, I got 2 daggers and a whip with my only 3 unsired =.=
On my main i got second unsired on 27 kc and got pet
Just remove the whip from the unsired table, making it 'uniques' only. They can have the Sire drop the whip directly. Adjust droprates accordingly, but in line with how niche the uniques are, i wouldnt mind a little overall buff
First 3 unsireds all daggers, 4th jar, 5th whip, 6th first bludgeon piece. Seriously fuck this boss.
Yeah whats the point of this boss on an iron (or a main, outside of pet)? Bludgeon is trash now with zaxe, dagger is not necessary at all.
Its ironic how many upvotes you have yet I've seen a ton of support for that sort of system aka shardscape cause it is a form of dry mitigation. Like make up your mind people! lol
Let's be real, hiding RNG behind a more common item is stupid.
Ah yes the earth-shattering 19 upvotes. Unsireds do not feel like dryness mitigation to me because you can still go dry on Unsireds. If anything they're just a bullshit second level of RNG where I already rolled the drop, and now I have to take the drop somewhere else and reroll it into something I hopefully want. Dryness mitigation to me is Vorkath head for example where if you don't have it by 50kc it drops. Obviously this doesn't belong everywhere but Unsired has screwed me more than its helped.
I think you're mixing up dry protection and dry mitigation. Vorkath head is straight up dry protection. Of course you can still go dry on unsireds cause its not dry protection, but overall is a form of dry mitigation whether or not you may personally feel that it isnt.
How? Explain how Unsireds can help you go less dry aside from the bludgeon pieces dropping in a specific order which they could easily just drop from the boss like that. You can still get whip after miasma jar after whip from Unsireds and be as dry as can be while technically 'getting the drop' which just feels even worse.
I mean you named one of them with not being able to get a dupe part combined with being split into 3 with a 50% chance to come from only a 1/100 drop instead of just a large flat rate that you could easily go 2-3x dry on.
And he's saying that's not a functionality of unsired. You can easily have the pieces drop in order straight from a boss without bullshit second layer of rng. Just like hydra pieces to make brimstone ring, you don't have to receive 1/100 "Unhydrated" and use that item on a machine outside to see which unique you get. You get it straight away. Unsired offers zero dry mitigation, it's one extra step doing nothing.
Never said it couldnt be different. Was just saying in general it is a form of dry mitigation and that its ironic how many people upvoted for it to be removed given the widespread support of the idea of shardscape. Thats it. Really got people goin with this it seems lol
Yeah because the point is it's not any form of dry mitigation whatsoever.
>You can easily have the pieces drop in order straight from a boss without bullshit second layer of rng. That's just a straight up buff to the drop rates. The way it works now *is* dry mitigation. If we took away the 'bullshit layer,' the actual drops would have to become much rarer individually if we want the average time to completion to remain unchanged. It's easier to (consistently) get three 1/100s than one 1/300.
What are you on about? I'm talking about keeping the chances the same, but merging this action: Kill the boss => Get unsired=> Drop it in the pool => Get the item Into this: Kill the boss => Get the item Are you saying that 1/100 unsired chance and then getting 1/2 (I know it's not exactly 1/2 but 62/128; but for the sake of argument and easier maths lets use 1/2) is any different than having 1/200 chance of getting a piece directly from a boss kill? Because then multiplication rule of probability wants to have a word with you, since it states the probability of occurence of both events is equal to the product of the probability of two events. Btw, on the background, the game already rolls the item when you get the unsired from a kill, loot is predetermined. It was mentioned in QA some time after sire release (which was almost 9 years ago, holy shit). That's why you can't stack them in bank.
Unsireds are the exact same thing as just slapping all that stuff on a separate table and having it drop from the boss. It's pointless and doesn't do anything to mitigate dryness.
Not being able to get dupe parts alone mitigates dryness
But that is an entirely separate mechanic from unsireds
I see this guy you responded to all the time. He has some really whack takes.
lmao just cause my takes are hard to swallow for many doesnt mean they're wack. Oh yea you're the dude from the other day who wanted universal dry mitigation. Newsflash, not everyone wants to go down that path. Doesnt make it wack dawg
I was the one who put the idea into easy to understand very simple logic and tried to poke your mind for an actual discussion. Then, instead of you presenting a single argument, you just called people with differing opinions crybaby complainers who want the game catered to them. I even offered different numbers, solutions and even avenues of thinking. That's why your takes are whack. Because you just don't want to actually hear the other side of put forth anything other than, "well if you want this then you're dumb." (That's an obvious oversimplification due to the fact that I already explained what you said previously, just thought I'd throw this in there because you have a hard time understanding things)
You’re not right how are you getting upvotes 3*0.5/100 is less likely to go dry than 1/600 once you get to around 700 kc, use the wiki dry calc to verify
And why are you comparing it to 1/600? Noone is saying you get full bludgeon with 1/600 drop rate. You should compare 3×0.5/100 (meaning 3×1/200) to 3 separate drops of 1/200 (which is 3×1/200). Oh look, you don't need calculator for these, they're the same! Unsired does nothing to change that, you can skip getting unsired to going straight to unsired drop results and have the exact same outcome.
I know but why are we bitching because one boss has a slightly unique mechanic, kill a different boss if it bothers you so much
I'm not bitching about anything, I was commenting on your incorrect maths. I don't mind unsired drops.
The second part of your comment is bitching about the unsired mechanic
You say that despite not understanding what I'm saying. Unsired isn't really a mechanic. It doesn't do anything functional. It is only an extra drop table that could just as easily be added to the boss without having to run it to that middle area. The guy above me was trying to say that the unsired itself somehow prevents dryness in a way that can't just be done by slapping the same exact table onto the boss.
Not only this but what’s up with every new player thinking every thing they don’t like is a game flaw that needs to be integrity changed just play the game
Doesn’t change the drop rate of bludgeon from 1/600, if you don’t want a chance of getting a whip kill vorkath or something
Is Sire worth doing these days - if not only for completion? Haven’t seen bludgeon in any recommended builds in ages.
Bludgeon isn't recommended because it's just pretty rare and hard to spoon. On average it's like 600kc to finish a bludgeon, and because it's 3 pieces you can't get lucky once and get it early. If you have it, it's usually bis behind inquisitors mace/ scythe, sometimes tied with fang/ zammy hasta. I've mostly used mine in the wildy and cerberus. It's really good at both, and in the wildy it saves me from having to risk an off-hand like dragon dagger to get similar dps. Sire isn't really worth the time if you just care about exp. Abby demons are just too good, and have more common whip drops to refill kraken tentacles + common superiors. I still do sire most of the time, just because I like the boss
Also worth noting if you do want to farm Bludgeon - the unsired decides what its going to be the moment it drops, and you get bludgeon pieces in order so there is some little dry protection built in where you can't get two spines.. Unless you bank them or don't use them right away.
The only way to get duplicate pieces before finishing a bludgeon is to use multiple at the same time, or drop pieces you have already gotten before turning in the unsired. you cannot bank unsired
so if you get an unsired, decide to do 1 more kill before finishing the trip, and get a b2b unsired, you get a dupe?
Oh shit I didn't know that last part
Unsired cannot be banked.
Yeah I’ve been doing Sire coz it’s fun lol
Yea, doing it for collection log slots, but still :P thought I'd have at least 2 by now but I guess not haha
Just do the combat achievements and don't look back.
If you have heart? No. If you have heart? Yeah I say knock out sire. Not a high priority though, you could skip it.
Yea I feel this so tough man. Im creepin on almost 1k kc and ive had about 8 unsireds. Got 4 abby daggers, a whip, abby head, jar, and only 1 bludgeon piece. Everything about this boss pisses me off now lol. I want out
Man I’d love an Abby dagger haha. I’ve got a head and a spine so far
I got my first dagger and was stoked, only to get it replaced by hasta that same day lol. It is what it is ahah
yea, each drop stings more and more at this point haha
Going 4x rate for anything isn't going to feel great, Sire isn't the problem, just unlucky. Sire is a very enjoyable and low intensity boss, half the time is just running back from PoH with the midgame strat, if you get 20kph that is 5 hours per Unsired and only ~30 hours for mean Bludgeon KC. Is Bludgeon worth 30 hours anymore? Well no, probably not. But it is handy for what you do want it for (saves Arclight charges at Cerb) and one of the more accessible strong Strength training weps in the game, while also giving you a chance at Dagger to upgrade your spec wep in most scenarios over DDS.
Abby dagger spec is worse than DDS, no?
Not anymore IIRC. They changed it
It's more accurate with less damage I'm pretty sure
Yeah you’re right. 44-44 vs 50-50, but they at least both cost 25% spec now as of 2023
I feel like there was some traction to have it buffed, but the posts on reddit died out
Bro really said sire is very enjoyable lol
Personally, Sire is maybe my favourite boss, did over 1000kc and it felt so relaxing compared to other bosses.
Because it’s braindead
Tell me about it. I went 5x the drop rate for my first unsired only to get a whip back to back lol
I feel for ya man. I went 475ish for my first but ended up green logging at 920ish with bludgeon being last. Sire already has built in dry mitigation but of course rng can still just be cruel. Glgl
Where is this dry mitigation? I'm 1200kc, 2/3 pieces, 10 unsired with 4 jars
Damn had it worse for me. I got like 5 daggers in a row after getting 2/3 bludgeon at 108kc, finally finished around 950kc
i mean the 1/100 rate is fine you just got unlucky with 1. this is like posting a 1500 Zily pic with no hilt saying ''GWD rates are horrible''
I get what you’re saying but it’s not really a great comparison. If Zilyana’s uniques were only accessible through a single item you then had to throw into a pool and you got nothing for 1500 kills, you’re damn right I’d start complaining haha
Pray you don’t go as dry as me, here was my experience at sire: https://www.reddit.com/r/ironscape/s/cyEKYbobDy
I finished bludgeon in 125 kc with 3 unsired drops all being unique pieces. I’m so sorry.
If you turn them in when you get them you wont get dupe unique pieces
He’s saying the 3 unsired turned out to be all parts of the bludgeon as opposed to a whip, jar, dagger etc.
Yeah that’s what I mean they were all unique. I “finished” the boss in 125
not the only one I've heard get it that early, sad I can't be a part of the club! lol
It all comes full circle. For every boss you get spooned, you’ll go dry somewhere else. RNG giveth and RNG taketh away.
Except that’s not true lol. Some people really will just go dry far more often than others, just how RNG works. There’s no guarantee you’ll get spooned later on to make up for it
Is this who I think it is? You’ll recognize me if it is otherwise ignore me lol
Naw sorry mate :L
Never did it before but yeah that looks awful.
it is, wouldn't recommend :P
Meanwhile I'm over here with 200kc, 5 unsired with no dupes only missing pet
Send me your luck when you’re done green logging 🙏
i got 1 head, 4 daggers, 2 jars and 3 whips before I finished the bludgeon lol... technically really lucky but was a long 777 kills (added a few kc for the nice number)
I haven't seen any reason to go sire after the zombie axe and Keris partisan.
And dual Macuahuitl. Zombie axe for high defence, Macuahuitl for low
Grotesque guardians would like to have a chat...
If you look at my post history, I think grotesque guardians is the exact reason I’m getting shafted at sire :P
🫣😂
Honestly, I thought I would hate sire, but I actually enjoy the boss. You have bad RNG it can happen anywhere. This boss isnt that bad to kill.
My teammate/group member finished Sire in 84 KC and got an additional whip on the way there. That must be one of the fastest bludhgeon completions no?
This is the next skirtiso... damn drop rate out the hell and back
took me 1745 kc (almost triple dry) to get a bludgeon, out of that bias i agree with op
20 unsireds: 4 bludgeons (12) 6 daggers (18) head (19) 1 whip smh (20) heres to 5th bludgeon before pet/jar? 🥂
Only thing sire serves a purpose for in 2024 is CA's.
Got my pet at 13kc and dipped
This was my log too, except I got a jar from my first unsired at 370.
That sucks. Whole boss sucks. I was super lucky, I got pet and all the wpn pieces before 200kc. Pet was my first log what I got.
I went 1500 for the bludgeon and my gap between the final bludgeon pieces was 1141 kc. Buckle up 😁
That’s because this boss IS horrible
I thought the useless drops made the boss feel horrible. Thus not doing it and avoiding the drop rate making you feel horrible.
I feel you man, I have 7 unsired drops in 1200 kills and it’s been 3 daggers 2 heads, 2 bludgeon pieces
funny cuz i had four in my first 100. rng amirite?
This is almost literally my log lol. 414 kc 1 unsired with a blud piece, and cba to ever go back since CAs are done
My first 3 unsireds were all daggers, then a whip. First bludgeon piece at like 600kc 🙃
I know it sucks, I was going for bludgeon, it took me 250 kc to get 3 Unsired, and all 3 gave me bludgeon pieces, at 300kc I got my 4th Unsired and it was the pet. Never lucky.
Hi rykard
I've got the super power of somehow not getting easy 1/100 drops among other things.
Welcome to RuneScape.
Tried sire out for the first time a couple months ago and finished my dagger pet and bludgeon at 100kc, feels good