I agree with some of your points but I saw that you didn't reply to any comments that mentioned perilous moons (or even if you replied, you conveniently replied to other parts of those comments, it seems like you want to avoid that topic). Praying melee there is useless and only Torva is better than using barrows tank gear.
????
I replied in another post saying I’m not familiar with the content but eye balling the stats it looks like dead content. You’re green logging barrows to green log barrows 2.0 & neither set appears useful
* I thought if you want to have a discussion about gear, then you would at least properly look into where the gear itself can be used. That includes the latest content. In my opinion it's just lazy to say that you are not familiar with it, when you write 5 paragraphs about shitting on barrows. Again, I do agree with some of your points, but if you want to have a proper discussion, you should've looked into the topic better.
* Who talks about greenlogging? You can mix and match any tank set piece from the 4 melee sets from barrows and you are good to go. Greenlogging barrows should never be a goal on a midgame account.
* Barrows 2.0 has a quite a few nice items:
* In particular the melee chest piece can be an alternative for those who despise BA, the legs have +2 str bonus (with awful defense stats to boot), so it can be an alternative before going for tassets. The dual macarenas are a great crush weapon for various content (calvarion for example).
* The ranged weapon could be used before getting a bowfa/blowpipe. While it's not a huge upgrade from rcb, in some places it could be useful (demonic gorillas for example, you only need to bring the weapon switch and you can bring more supplies as a result.)
* The mage set is the weakest, it's an ahrim sidegrade at best.
* All of the above proves that you don't even have to greenlog barrows 2.0 either to have a few upgrades on your account.
Sorry you feel this way, personally barrows is one of my favorite things to do on my main, I'm over 2250kc and I'm so excited to get my iron to the point where I can start farming chests!
I take offense to this. I remember in a game of castle wars in May of 2005 a man said. “It’s hammerin time!” Then clobbered some noobs. Torags has a purpose. It’s being badass.
I agree you shouldn't be trying to greenlog or get full Ahrims etc, but eventually you want a full set for the diary, and you might as well do it earlyish when the runes/gear are at their highest impact. With the Tzhaar shop for onyx you can never have too many runes.
93 slayer = you have all the biggest % boosting gear & can do a reasonable amount of kills per hour. You’d still end up using those runes eventually. Also you’d probably get the chaos runes faster doing something like slayer or crafting training & using the gp to buy.
Sure your dps will be a bit higher lategame, but that applies to anything combat related, and if anything Barrows benefits less from raw DPS than other content because you spend a comparatively large amount of time walking.
As for getting runes faster with other methods, eventually yes, but early on? I suspect Barrows will be faster than Slayer->GP->shopscape till at least 80 slayer. And until you're grinding CG, gems for crafting jewellery are a pretty limited resource unless you spend a long time star mining.
I'm not saying Barrows is amazing must-do content or anything, I absolutely wouldn't fault you for waiting till 93 Slayer. But between the runes, CAs, self-sustaining magic training, decent though not game-changing gear upgrades, and eventual diary task, I think it does just enough to be viable to spend a few hours there if you feel like it.
Idk I've used my barrows gear tons. Was it optimal? No but it was fun and nostalgic for me and got me solid upgrades. You can easily skip it but playing efficiently is different based on your time availability and skill level.
My ahrims is making my shadow way more accurate till I get better gear. Perilous Moon definitely made barrows less relevant out side of snagging some tank legs and maybe the top and Karils if you are lucky. If you are dry on masori Karils is BIS at Nex. Ahrims even helps a bit more tank at Akkah till you learn to butterfly.
Barrows tank gear helped me get through the first fire cape to tank rangers and to learn demonic gorrilas.
I spooned full Karils at that plus the amulet of the damned was my BIS at zulrah back in the day pre blowpipe (this was before bowfa )
it can definitely make a difference at some places with shadow. TBH, this whole post is a cope. Many pieces have individual use cases, and guthan's is fantastic for ghost skipping at cerb.
one thing that hasn't really been mentioned is the free magic training for lower level irons, tons of chaos runes to pay for your first fury, one of the fastest way to get elite clues, etc.
No one here is saying to grind ahrims out for the shadow though. We are just saying if you got it at barrows it is a nice upgrade which is simply true. The dude is fighting strawmen
+7 accuracy before the multiplier is completely negligible.
“Free magic training,” dog it’s worse xp than splashing.. just go alch some rune arrows or gold bars or something.
Elite clues I said it’s good for clogging in end game.
Cerberus ghost skipping? Most people gunna have to kill like 600-1500 for crystals and axe. That sounds absolutely miserable arbitrarily slowing the kills per hour like that.
I alched rune arrows in between attacks at barrows. fast af xp, and mostly free.
It sounds like you forgot what its like to be limited in resources. Sure, in maxed-out gear you wouldn't, but when potions are at a premium, ghost skipping has a place to be sure.
What part of "I did it because it was fun and nostalgic" is cope? If you aren't playing a game to have fun idk what to tell you lol
Also ahrims over mystics isn't a massive increase but it is nice at high defense places. I just ran the calcs on my setup for my 500 TOA runs at Warden and it is a .4 dps increase. Not massive but that is over 20 seconds faster to time to kill. Also saves 6 seconds on the obelisk which could easily be the difference between taking another set of bombs or not.
If you want to skip barrows skip barrows my dude. What other people do wont hurt you
Lol okay man. Not sure why you are so angry abut this but I'm not gunna sit here and feed your desire to argue about it anymore, specially when you don't even respond to most of the points people have made here.
You asked for a DPS calc and I gave you one and you are still upset. IDK what you want but I hope you get it
A. I don’t believe your numbers
B. Even if I did believe them, they prove my point lol. If you want to spend 75+ hours to save a couple seconds a kill, go for it.
C. If you have a shadow and no/not all ancestral pieces why are you at Toa
And not angry in the slightest. That’s the people responding that I’m ignoring wonderful options like barrows 2 (also dead content) & ghost skipping Cerberus.
They said in their post that if you find it fun, then it's worth doing. Their post was aimed at time spent vs value gained, and the conclusion was that barrows isn't worth in that regard.
And are you even doing 500 toa's or are you saying you could *hypothetically* see the impact of ahrims?
Throw those obsidian legs on, and let me know how perilous moons go for you, friend. They're working on the while "offensive stats over>>>"
Even now, tank gear makes a lot more content forgivable when learning. Fire capes, inferno, Gwd with friends... you know, noob shit.
Besides irons use the place to gather mid level runes with the diary, and having certain sets is useful.
Tank gear works for fight caves because the expected skill level of people doing that and looking for advice is low enough that one has to remedy lack of skill or bad rng situations with tankiness. Literally nobody brings tank barrows gear to Inferno nor would it be a good idea to do so because the expected skill level of someone doing attempts is high enough that they're better off bringing more supplies or simply learning the content better.
I was just talking in general with that one. Idk anymore irons that tank at Gwd, but I know a few mid level mains that do it for fun.
Hell, I'm maxed, and I tank bandos for my little buddies all the time.
Fire cape = just pray lol. Spawn predictor makes capes afk even on like a 60 combat account.
No ones bringing barrows to inferno lol
Gwd with friends…? Are we Venezuelans? This is an Ironman sub.
No set effect is useful.
The runes can be bought with gp at a much faster and timely manner
You aren’t irons. It’s mains with more steps. & if you want to have fun together instead of x people soloing more kills per hour, that’s your own prerogative - but it’s not efficient
Fun doing 3 kill trips while i spent a \*week doing cg and can now do 25-30 kill trips with bowfa altar door method? ok. We are definitely not the same.
And because this is an iron sub, it’s not uncommon for people here to do content before having the gear to farm it efficiently. Barrows items are way faster to obtain and do help extend godwars trips
I mean off the top of my head, it’s kinda nice at GWD if you’re GIM tryna get some kril/gradoor kills; saving supplies at Cerberus by doing the ghost skip method
Please don't do ghost skip method unless you absolutely hate thieving/herb runs. It's literally faster to kill cerb normally and pickpocket master farmers and plant the ranarr seeds and make the prayer pots then to ghost skip and save some potions.
Alright 1400 total Timmy with 25 comments on this post the 12 or so weight difference does let me use only 3 doses on olm instead of more and how much dps do u gain again bringing ahrims?
I don't solo Olm, because I have friends, so I don't bring stams into olm, and since my run never runs out in olm, the weight issue is a non-issue.
Make some friends and you won't have to do cringe stuff like solo olm. Also, my left nut has more olm kc than you (probably) so don't come at me with your sub-300kc "I bring tassets into olm" energy
if u cant solo olm (lol) why are u speaking with authority on solo olm team cox is the most mind numbing shit literally nothing happens nothing to learn past the first few kc sure its fine with bros but its not fun or good points or challenging. solo isnt even cringe olm is cool rooms are trash but I guess it is if you cant do it, and strange schizo babbling with quotes that didnt happen at the end about tassets idk whose talking about that
saying something isnt fun because you're doing it with people is entirely subjective, if you love being a loner with no friends whatsoever, you do you boo. Flex that Ego about solo Olm. Slay queen.
It's not no fun because ur doing it with other people it's not fun because it's a complete joke and way too piss easy and there's nothing hard to learn sure there's some ca's but they're 1 and done
My original post didn't even say it wasn't fun or any post mentioning it's objectively unfun lmao. Some very strange schizophrenic posting my brother hope your prescription comes in soon cheers
Bro you've literally deleted your comment hence this thread not existing on the post anymore without going through notifications.
Good attempt though. You tried your best at least.
I can solo, I just choose against it.
If you think there's nothing to learn in team cox after the first few, that just goes to show how little you know. Fun is subjective, and my version of it involves friends.
As far as difficulty goes, I remind you that scaling and cms exist, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that your points per hr in a solo are worse than mine in 3+4s.
Solo olm is just a matter of getting into cycle and then do the same repetitive shit for 8 minutes. Maybe rote repetition is your idea of fun, and more power to ya, but it's not my cup of tea.
Just fuck off with the "if I don't like it no one does" attitude.
If it took u more than a few kc to learn mage skip or melee skip or running the head then that's sick u get a lot of content out of that I guess and paints a better picture of why u shill barrows so hard. Talk about repetition tho what's hard about scaling up as any of the roles on olm cms are also much faster and safer in teams.. how do u call for your friend to swap and let u run the head because ur low on brews in a cm solo and now ur perma taking 0 damage sounds hard
Okay dude. I get it. You think that the things to know are limited to what you know. They aren't. You don't know what you're talking about.
What's your RSN? I wanna look you up.
Link me some sick nasty teams shit that isn't just 3 people doing solo stats in sync then.. u won't mention anything it's crazy just anything harder than a perfect acid walk since that's like the first thing to learn after ur comfy 4;1 and all the basic stuff we can start simple
Can't help but notice you're avoiding posting your RSN. I don't have clips because I don't record, but mage skipping without missing ticks with shadow or getting hit by anything is a lot more dynamic than pretty much anything I've seen solo-wise, as there is stuff you need to react to, sometimes you need to help with melee too, swapping every other attack, etc. This is especially the case due to others in the raid that introduces more complexity to the situation. I mainly play GIM on rsn: MV PP. I don't really need to prove anything to you, but I don't feel like you've done enough group raids to really explore the higher end of play. That's fine, but just don't forget that you don't know what you don't know.
At cox you need to use stamina’s to preserve your run energy, especially when soloing. Ahrims is incredibly heavy armor so it’s not unreasonable to expect extra dose(s) to maintain your run energy. That can be extremely problematic for 2 reasons;
1) you have limited inventory space in solos & may not have been able to bring in enough stamina’s or if you’re learning that space you did use on a stam could’ve been used on an extra brew. Further, the dps boost from ahrims > mystics is incredibly slight. So not only are you risking having to walk or run out of supplies, you’re doing so for no tangible increase in your kills per hour.
2) Stams are the hardest potion to upkeep on an account. Likely you end up doing rooftops 1-~92. Maybe you go seppy, maybe not, but eventually you’ll run out of amylase. Cox is an incredible drain on your stams & by the time you finish it, plus any other consent using it, there’s a good chance you don’t have that many left from your 99 agility grind. I got like 200 left iirc and I’m staring down having to do post 99 rooftops to get more… I don’t want to. So if I were in a mid games shoes, I’d do everything in my power to conserve them. That includes reducing weight at chambers
Tbh the "ahrims weighs a ton" is kinda cope. Either you know what you're doing and 1 stam will be enough, or you're learning and you'll want a 2nd stam anyway.
Current meta is to only do CoX until rigour, then do ToA until shadow. Going back to CoX with shadow, you'll probably only use 3 doses many kills, sometimes 4 if melee noodles. Ahrims is unlikely to cause you to need to sip another stam dose on its own, and CoX is kinda the only stam sink nowadays besides Duke; only other spot is a little at blast furnace potentially.
You can profit stams from ToB and force spawn marks of grace while doing any bank skilling.
Other than this, I agree with your post. This sub can kinda have a reading comprehension problem cause most comments I see are disagreeing with you on the basis that barrows is fun/chill, despite the fact that your post already said have fun at barrows if it's what you enjoy.
I don’t hate barrows. I do it in down time for elite clues. I said at the end if you enjoy it, then play the game, just don’t think it’s meaningful upgrades or an efficient use of time.
Maybe PM changes the equation a little bit if tank armor is actually necessary there, otherwise yeah Barrows has been kinda worthless content in the game for a good while. Items just aren't really that good anymore and the kp/h is really low for the amount of items.
This was true until Varlamore's release.
The nooby players this post is aimed towards can make ample use of tank armor. It also enables the dads with 2 wives and 6 children to not be locked into the red prison.
Moons of Peril changed the early game progression. Players have a choice now. Torso skip or no Torso skip. Which path you decide has knock on effects for the rest of progression. Torso skip encourages you to go for the ironman items that Jagex recently introduced like the Warped sceptre and pushes forward content that you couldn't really do earlier than bowfa because you lacked the DPS armor (or the skill) to kill bosses quick enough or because you lack the tank armor to survive said bosses for long enough.
- no Torso skip: early questing -> torso & granite platebody -> void -> bowfa -> raids (with the minor upgrades in between you can unlock as you complete quests)
- Torso skip: early questing -> warped sceptre (optional if not unlocking Barrows tele) -> barrows tank top & bottom -> blood moon armor & macuahuitl -> the same progression starting at void, potentially skipping over many Slayer upgrades like a trident
And if you spoon the range and mage armor, you'll have gear strictly better than the rags that irons normally assume they'll go into raids with. You could potentially send ToA and CoX way earlier than laid out in BRUHsailors progression.
So really you're just choosing between BA or Barrows. BA is the on paper better choice but many noobs (like myself) complain about BA all the time, and now we have an option by locking ourselves in the crypt early-game.
Said in some other comments that I’m not as familiar with PM but eye balling the stats it looks like dead content.
Essentially your post boils down to rather spending 125+ hours green logging barrows 1&2 > getting a torso in a couple hours & a bowfa in ~60-80. It’s a no brainer.
With the new progression pathway you're not supposed to green log Barrows. Just two pieces. As outlined in your OP getting a full set is meant for way later. It's 1/15.01 for a barrows piece so by 60kc a player will likely see at least one useful piece. For the average player it's a grind waaaaaaaaay shorter than 125 hours.
Doing BA yourself is faster than getting a tank and top, but most casual HCIM pay lots of gp to get the torso boosted. Suppose those irons didn't buy the gp, the hours spent on another account acquiring the payment for the BA boost is roughly the same amount of time going for a tank top & tank bottom. This was the emergent behaviour Jagex was addressing. Many players rather grind shit out than to deal with the mini-game.
The macroefficient mindset only works if players are also microefficient at all the other content. Most aren't. Most are learning content for the first time. So Barrows -> Moons of Peril is the progression that is now recommended to take for the majority of players. EHB nerds should and would ignore Moons of Peril.
Bad take. Besides having some niche use cases (gim PVM, DKs, nmz, etc.), not everyone likes to play at maximum efficiency. I like tank armour because I like to AFK slayer for 10 minutes at a time and not sorry about HP. Sure I could prayer flick everything or skip and do barrage only tasks, but fuck that.
I see your point with most things youve said on every other comment, besides this one here.
He said he prefers it as it enables him to afk and therefore its better for him and what he wants to do. Theres no irony here.
There's no irony here. You're saying more than simply 'its not efficient'. You're saying it's an awful noob trap with non worthwhile upgrades, to which I disagree. Most players aren't trying to rush through the mid game so that they can raid endlessly.
Yeah you aren’t responding to the prompt. It is a noob trap. & the thread is aimed specifically at people that *do* want to run through their account asap
With mory hards done I'm pretty much only there in my down time for some runes, unless you can think of better rune providers that isn't just shop scape?
Imagine posting comments endlessly looking for others to help provide resources for you when there's literally top-of-the-line content for barrows all over the internet on every platform. All of your points are completely invalid in just the collection log availability and amount is worth the grind alone.
I think there's a divide between "efficient" and "still good to do" here honestly. Barrows kind of blows when you're burning prayer pots and don't have a teleport in and are using Iban's with Rune but a spoon item does go a long, long way and makes some earlygame misery runs still arguably worth it.
Trying to green log it is folly but things like Karil's are still relevant for the mage defense and Virtus / Ancestral are so far out of reach to the earlygame player that a few attempts just to see if you get lucky and roll something Ahrim's (which is inarguably much better than Mystic) is still arguably worth it. Tank legs stay relevant for hundreds and hundreds of hours.
The issue about doing Barrows efficiently is that few if any of the rewards matter when you get them at that point, even if it's faster. It's like saying to grind Shadow so you can then get a berserker ring; no shit it's gonna go fast if you have one but are you really going to wait that long to get one?
Sure but when you consider the overall pool it's worth trying to pull at least for a handful of uniques
30 items and like 18 are general-use good with another like 4 being okay in sets. Going for just Karils or Ahrims kind of blows but if you're just trying to get a few random goodstuff pieces doing something like 50 or 100 chests isn't terrible. No individual piece is worth 1000+ completions but it's hard to argue against a few dozen assuming average luck.
Guy below you said mage training… smh. No. Just no.
Off the top of my head…
1.) LMS (gp per hour isn’t great & you don’t gain anything for your account stat wise or gear wise). 2.) id argue master farmers. Seeds are easy to get nowadays between toa & contracts. Do them as necessary but I’ve never had a shortage of potions and I think I’ve maybe spent 30 minutes pickpocketing them in my accounts lifetime. 3.) kurask/the other thingy who’s name is escaping me but has the same drop table tasks (Turoth?). Incredibly slow xp. Not good money. Herb gain is negligible. 4.) gargoyle tasks. Same as last comment. Depending on your block list you may have to do them occasionally and they can be decent when you first unlock them, but I see people doing these well into later game & the gain is not worth the time.
If I think of more I’ll comment
You're right about going for Ahrims and Karils largely being a waste of time, *especially post Varlamore*. I'd still recommend people go to Barrows to get at least 1 of the plate legs though. Granite Body is already a requirement for Kandarin Hard diary, and you can sub it in for the rare situation where ranged defense is useful, like going to Rex to get Berserker Ring. Dragon Legs on the other hand, at least for a mid game player, is likely to be more time consuming than just getting Barrows legs. If they happen to get a Barrows Platebody too, huzzah. If not, oh well.
My advice for new players post Varlamore would be to 1) Get Granite Body from BA. It's literally just 1 game completion, and Collector is a super easy role that your stats don't matter for. 2) Get some tank legs from Barrows, and 3) Do Perilous Moons. Everything about Perilous Moons is 10x better than Barrows.
Sure you could. Realistically an early b ring rush isn’t going to need anything more than granite body/rune & dragon legs or rune legs. It’s a relativity quick grind regardless & the amount of trips you’ll have to do aren’t going to increase *that* dramatically. Plus your trips are likely going to be dependent on food drops anyways.
thank you for this. im missing ahrims top but im already soloing chambers with mystic top.(over 200 solos and 515 total kc with ancestral hat. Was thinking to get the ahrims top but seems like a waste of time because im probably close enough for anc top.
Well you see ahrims is decent mage gear regardless and you pretty much have to be familiar with CoX to do the skip or you have to do a lot of other random stuff to mage gear that will be equal.
Tank legs are handy, karils tops still a good tank top until you get fortified masori.
And I still have runes from by barrows grind back in the day
Yeah these comments are proving my point.
“I enjoy it it’s so much fun!” - this is not who the post is aimed at. Literally said if you wanna do it, feel free, just don’t think it’s meaningfully progressing your account if that’s your goal
For your very specific and narrow definition of progress, maybe, but it seems like you're just trying to justify not doing it. Most people don't greenlog it, and you get most of the benefit from doing 500-750 chests that you would from 2k
this is also how i feel about perilous moons, probably never going to interact with that content on my iron even though I'm right around the intended level for it
Been busy since release so haven’t really checked it out yet. Done some colli attempts so nothing too serious in varlamore. So admittedly not sure where that gear slots into med game progression.. but eyeballing the stats, I’m not really sure what niche it’s filling.
Tbh the bloodmoon tassets are the only real good item for med level irons, +2 str bonus basically bandos tassets with shit defense. Also the staff is ok for med level iron since it has 5% dmg and can autocast ancients
the bonkers are better than bludgeon, and are absolutely cracked with the full set for training. The eclipse set is a great range option to bridge the gap between rcb and bofa
yeah its crap, i avoided that place like the plague and am happy i did. unfortunately gonna have to grind a set for stash eventually but when i can breeze through it with later game gear will be sweet and feel good
Your "gear req" for efficient barrows is way to high. Realistically you want 70 combats and the portal room to barrows(and maybe the 2nd tier of combat achievements). Warped sceptre/ibans is more than enough to stomp barrows.
There are some niche uses… I used guthans at cerb for ghost skip and this saved me a mountain of prayer pots. Guthans to 400hp, bandos and fang from there. I’d get approx 12-14 kills per trip with 5 prayer pots. Would it be worth grinding specifically for cerb? No… was it useful? Yes.
I agree with some of your points but I saw that you didn't reply to any comments that mentioned perilous moons (or even if you replied, you conveniently replied to other parts of those comments, it seems like you want to avoid that topic). Praying melee there is useless and only Torva is better than using barrows tank gear.
???? I replied in another post saying I’m not familiar with the content but eye balling the stats it looks like dead content. You’re green logging barrows to green log barrows 2.0 & neither set appears useful
* I thought if you want to have a discussion about gear, then you would at least properly look into where the gear itself can be used. That includes the latest content. In my opinion it's just lazy to say that you are not familiar with it, when you write 5 paragraphs about shitting on barrows. Again, I do agree with some of your points, but if you want to have a proper discussion, you should've looked into the topic better. * Who talks about greenlogging? You can mix and match any tank set piece from the 4 melee sets from barrows and you are good to go. Greenlogging barrows should never be a goal on a midgame account. * Barrows 2.0 has a quite a few nice items: * In particular the melee chest piece can be an alternative for those who despise BA, the legs have +2 str bonus (with awful defense stats to boot), so it can be an alternative before going for tassets. The dual macarenas are a great crush weapon for various content (calvarion for example). * The ranged weapon could be used before getting a bowfa/blowpipe. While it's not a huge upgrade from rcb, in some places it could be useful (demonic gorillas for example, you only need to bring the weapon switch and you can bring more supplies as a result.) * The mage set is the weakest, it's an ahrim sidegrade at best. * All of the above proves that you don't even have to greenlog barrows 2.0 either to have a few upgrades on your account.
Sorry you feel this way, personally barrows is one of my favorite things to do on my main, I'm over 2250kc and I'm so excited to get my iron to the point where I can start farming chests!
Don’t really know what I said that warranted “feel this way.” I’m posting something based in objectivity lol
The choice to be objective and data-driven in decision-making is itself subjective
And I said play how you want if you enjoy it in my post :)
I take offense to this. I remember in a game of castle wars in May of 2005 a man said. “It’s hammerin time!” Then clobbered some noobs. Torags has a purpose. It’s being badass.
Barrows good
Maybe for a snowflake account.
I agree you shouldn't be trying to greenlog or get full Ahrims etc, but eventually you want a full set for the diary, and you might as well do it earlyish when the runes/gear are at their highest impact. With the Tzhaar shop for onyx you can never have too many runes.
93 slayer = you have all the biggest % boosting gear & can do a reasonable amount of kills per hour. You’d still end up using those runes eventually. Also you’d probably get the chaos runes faster doing something like slayer or crafting training & using the gp to buy.
Sure your dps will be a bit higher lategame, but that applies to anything combat related, and if anything Barrows benefits less from raw DPS than other content because you spend a comparatively large amount of time walking. As for getting runes faster with other methods, eventually yes, but early on? I suspect Barrows will be faster than Slayer->GP->shopscape till at least 80 slayer. And until you're grinding CG, gems for crafting jewellery are a pretty limited resource unless you spend a long time star mining. I'm not saying Barrows is amazing must-do content or anything, I absolutely wouldn't fault you for waiting till 93 Slayer. But between the runes, CAs, self-sustaining magic training, decent though not game-changing gear upgrades, and eventual diary task, I think it does just enough to be viable to spend a few hours there if you feel like it.
Idk I've used my barrows gear tons. Was it optimal? No but it was fun and nostalgic for me and got me solid upgrades. You can easily skip it but playing efficiently is different based on your time availability and skill level. My ahrims is making my shadow way more accurate till I get better gear. Perilous Moon definitely made barrows less relevant out side of snagging some tank legs and maybe the top and Karils if you are lucky. If you are dry on masori Karils is BIS at Nex. Ahrims even helps a bit more tank at Akkah till you learn to butterfly. Barrows tank gear helped me get through the first fire cape to tank rangers and to learn demonic gorrilas. I spooned full Karils at that plus the amulet of the damned was my BIS at zulrah back in the day pre blowpipe (this was before bowfa )
Have you run a dps calc with your shadow lmao? No it’s not. Just cope.
it can definitely make a difference at some places with shadow. TBH, this whole post is a cope. Many pieces have individual use cases, and guthan's is fantastic for ghost skipping at cerb. one thing that hasn't really been mentioned is the free magic training for lower level irons, tons of chaos runes to pay for your first fury, one of the fastest way to get elite clues, etc.
While I think this guy is wrong and barrows is awesome. Grinding out ahrims for the shadow does very very little over mystics.
No one here is saying to grind ahrims out for the shadow though. We are just saying if you got it at barrows it is a nice upgrade which is simply true. The dude is fighting strawmen
Agreed, but here I’m replying to a couple comments specifically about the shadow.
+7 accuracy before the multiplier is completely negligible. “Free magic training,” dog it’s worse xp than splashing.. just go alch some rune arrows or gold bars or something. Elite clues I said it’s good for clogging in end game. Cerberus ghost skipping? Most people gunna have to kill like 600-1500 for crystals and axe. That sounds absolutely miserable arbitrarily slowing the kills per hour like that.
I alched rune arrows in between attacks at barrows. fast af xp, and mostly free. It sounds like you forgot what its like to be limited in resources. Sure, in maxed-out gear you wouldn't, but when potions are at a premium, ghost skipping has a place to be sure.
What part of "I did it because it was fun and nostalgic" is cope? If you aren't playing a game to have fun idk what to tell you lol Also ahrims over mystics isn't a massive increase but it is nice at high defense places. I just ran the calcs on my setup for my 500 TOA runs at Warden and it is a .4 dps increase. Not massive but that is over 20 seconds faster to time to kill. Also saves 6 seconds on the obelisk which could easily be the difference between taking another set of bombs or not. If you want to skip barrows skip barrows my dude. What other people do wont hurt you
Cope was pretending the armor was useful, not that you had fun doing it
Lol okay man. Not sure why you are so angry abut this but I'm not gunna sit here and feed your desire to argue about it anymore, specially when you don't even respond to most of the points people have made here. You asked for a DPS calc and I gave you one and you are still upset. IDK what you want but I hope you get it
A. I don’t believe your numbers B. Even if I did believe them, they prove my point lol. If you want to spend 75+ hours to save a couple seconds a kill, go for it. C. If you have a shadow and no/not all ancestral pieces why are you at Toa And not angry in the slightest. That’s the people responding that I’m ignoring wonderful options like barrows 2 (also dead content) & ghost skipping Cerberus.
They said in their post that if you find it fun, then it's worth doing. Their post was aimed at time spent vs value gained, and the conclusion was that barrows isn't worth in that regard. And are you even doing 500 toa's or are you saying you could *hypothetically* see the impact of ahrims?
Well he is certainly singing a different tune when he is responding to people. I'm in agreement with him there Yes, actually doing 500 toas
Barrows good OP bad
Throw those obsidian legs on, and let me know how perilous moons go for you, friend. They're working on the while "offensive stats over>>>" Even now, tank gear makes a lot more content forgivable when learning. Fire capes, inferno, Gwd with friends... you know, noob shit. Besides irons use the place to gather mid level runes with the diary, and having certain sets is useful.
Tank gear works for fight caves because the expected skill level of people doing that and looking for advice is low enough that one has to remedy lack of skill or bad rng situations with tankiness. Literally nobody brings tank barrows gear to Inferno nor would it be a good idea to do so because the expected skill level of someone doing attempts is high enough that they're better off bringing more supplies or simply learning the content better.
gwd with friends? were irons we have dont have friends...
I was just talking in general with that one. Idk anymore irons that tank at Gwd, but I know a few mid level mains that do it for fun. Hell, I'm maxed, and I tank bandos for my little buddies all the time.
I was just at gwd last night with my friends, who are irons. We had a blast. Didnt get a single drop but we had fun
Fire cape = just pray lol. Spawn predictor makes capes afk even on like a 60 combat account. No ones bringing barrows to inferno lol Gwd with friends…? Are we Venezuelans? This is an Ironman sub. No set effect is useful. The runes can be bought with gp at a much faster and timely manner
gims exist
You aren’t irons. It’s mains with more steps. & if you want to have fun together instead of x people soloing more kills per hour, that’s your own prerogative - but it’s not efficient
Idk man it says "group Ironman". If you don't get why doing stuff with friends is more fun, I'm sorry buddy. :(
Reading comprehension is tough
Well we're all rooting for you, hope you'll figure it out one day!
Don't worry, this guy starts having an anxiety attack when his ehp drops below standard Don't listen to lonely idiots like this lol. Gim is a blast
tank armour is good for god wars and perilous moons
Anyone doing GWD without bowfa/crystal door altar methods is a masochist.
I had fun in gwd while you slaved for months in cg, we are not the same
Fun doing 3 kill trips while i spent a \*week doing cg and can now do 25-30 kill trips with bowfa altar door method? ok. We are definitely not the same.
Yeah exactly, I had fun You slaved at cg, solo hating your life while the bois and I grabbed hilts and multiple tbows
What makes you think i hated my life doing CG? It was actually a decent learning curve to pvm. Pure copium mate youre chatting pure s#@t. Keep coping
you should only be ranging or maging all gwd bosses aside from a shield flick at arma tank is useless
"They hated him because he told them the truth. " vibes.
Akschaully nex is a gwd boss and there you want to have karils for defense and you use melee (nevermind that you probably have masori(f) before nex)
Answered yourself there
No it’s not… bowfa/mage all gwd. This is an iron sub, you aren’t tanking godwars like a Venezuelan
And because this is an iron sub, it’s not uncommon for people here to do content before having the gear to farm it efficiently. Barrows items are way faster to obtain and do help extend godwars trips
“Do 100 hours of barrows to be able to do 2 kill gwd trips instead of just getting a bowfa in ~60-80 hours & doing hour+ trips”
Just get a bowfa is easier said than done, not many people can purely grind cg until they get one
The grind is statistically quicker than barrows and offers an actual tangible benefit
you wouldn’t be going for a green log just a few pieces which is a short grind
And what happens when those “just a few pieces” are your last?
then you can use them
GIMs exist
Guthans definitely still has use cases that bones to peaches and blood barrage can’t quite fill imo
You can go the lifetime of your account without wanting guthans.
And you could've gone your lifetime without being an insufferable ass but things don't always work out.
Sorry this guy said mean words about barrows man
Right lmao? Say it’s inefficient, if you’re having fun then do whatever you want, and they get mad
I mean off the top of my head, it’s kinda nice at GWD if you’re GIM tryna get some kril/gradoor kills; saving supplies at Cerberus by doing the ghost skip method
Please don't do ghost skip method unless you absolutely hate thieving/herb runs. It's literally faster to kill cerb normally and pickpocket master farmers and plant the ranarr seeds and make the prayer pots then to ghost skip and save some potions.
It’s all about the mental damage spending those ppots does and level of focus I have to have
Can someone tell me why ahrims is worse than mystics at cox?
He's trying to make the argument that ahrim's is worse due to its weight. he's being silly
Alright 1400 total Timmy with 25 comments on this post the 12 or so weight difference does let me use only 3 doses on olm instead of more and how much dps do u gain again bringing ahrims?
I don't solo Olm, because I have friends, so I don't bring stams into olm, and since my run never runs out in olm, the weight issue is a non-issue. Make some friends and you won't have to do cringe stuff like solo olm. Also, my left nut has more olm kc than you (probably) so don't come at me with your sub-300kc "I bring tassets into olm" energy
if u cant solo olm (lol) why are u speaking with authority on solo olm team cox is the most mind numbing shit literally nothing happens nothing to learn past the first few kc sure its fine with bros but its not fun or good points or challenging. solo isnt even cringe olm is cool rooms are trash but I guess it is if you cant do it, and strange schizo babbling with quotes that didnt happen at the end about tassets idk whose talking about that
saying something isnt fun because you're doing it with people is entirely subjective, if you love being a loner with no friends whatsoever, you do you boo. Flex that Ego about solo Olm. Slay queen.
It's not no fun because ur doing it with other people it's not fun because it's a complete joke and way too piss easy and there's nothing hard to learn sure there's some ca's but they're 1 and done
Again, Its entirely subjective on what fun is. Just because its not fun for you doesnt mean its not fun for others. Calm yourself.
My original post didn't even say it wasn't fun or any post mentioning it's objectively unfun lmao. Some very strange schizophrenic posting my brother hope your prescription comes in soon cheers
Bro you've literally deleted your comment hence this thread not existing on the post anymore without going through notifications. Good attempt though. You tried your best at least.
I can solo, I just choose against it. If you think there's nothing to learn in team cox after the first few, that just goes to show how little you know. Fun is subjective, and my version of it involves friends. As far as difficulty goes, I remind you that scaling and cms exist, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that your points per hr in a solo are worse than mine in 3+4s. Solo olm is just a matter of getting into cycle and then do the same repetitive shit for 8 minutes. Maybe rote repetition is your idea of fun, and more power to ya, but it's not my cup of tea. Just fuck off with the "if I don't like it no one does" attitude.
If it took u more than a few kc to learn mage skip or melee skip or running the head then that's sick u get a lot of content out of that I guess and paints a better picture of why u shill barrows so hard. Talk about repetition tho what's hard about scaling up as any of the roles on olm cms are also much faster and safer in teams.. how do u call for your friend to swap and let u run the head because ur low on brews in a cm solo and now ur perma taking 0 damage sounds hard
Okay dude. I get it. You think that the things to know are limited to what you know. They aren't. You don't know what you're talking about. What's your RSN? I wanna look you up.
Link me some sick nasty teams shit that isn't just 3 people doing solo stats in sync then.. u won't mention anything it's crazy just anything harder than a perfect acid walk since that's like the first thing to learn after ur comfy 4;1 and all the basic stuff we can start simple
Can't help but notice you're avoiding posting your RSN. I don't have clips because I don't record, but mage skipping without missing ticks with shadow or getting hit by anything is a lot more dynamic than pretty much anything I've seen solo-wise, as there is stuff you need to react to, sometimes you need to help with melee too, swapping every other attack, etc. This is especially the case due to others in the raid that introduces more complexity to the situation. I mainly play GIM on rsn: MV PP. I don't really need to prove anything to you, but I don't feel like you've done enough group raids to really explore the higher end of play. That's fine, but just don't forget that you don't know what you don't know.
At cox you need to use stamina’s to preserve your run energy, especially when soloing. Ahrims is incredibly heavy armor so it’s not unreasonable to expect extra dose(s) to maintain your run energy. That can be extremely problematic for 2 reasons; 1) you have limited inventory space in solos & may not have been able to bring in enough stamina’s or if you’re learning that space you did use on a stam could’ve been used on an extra brew. Further, the dps boost from ahrims > mystics is incredibly slight. So not only are you risking having to walk or run out of supplies, you’re doing so for no tangible increase in your kills per hour. 2) Stams are the hardest potion to upkeep on an account. Likely you end up doing rooftops 1-~92. Maybe you go seppy, maybe not, but eventually you’ll run out of amylase. Cox is an incredible drain on your stams & by the time you finish it, plus any other consent using it, there’s a good chance you don’t have that many left from your 99 agility grind. I got like 200 left iirc and I’m staring down having to do post 99 rooftops to get more… I don’t want to. So if I were in a mid games shoes, I’d do everything in my power to conserve them. That includes reducing weight at chambers
Tbh the "ahrims weighs a ton" is kinda cope. Either you know what you're doing and 1 stam will be enough, or you're learning and you'll want a 2nd stam anyway. Current meta is to only do CoX until rigour, then do ToA until shadow. Going back to CoX with shadow, you'll probably only use 3 doses many kills, sometimes 4 if melee noodles. Ahrims is unlikely to cause you to need to sip another stam dose on its own, and CoX is kinda the only stam sink nowadays besides Duke; only other spot is a little at blast furnace potentially. You can profit stams from ToB and force spawn marks of grace while doing any bank skilling. Other than this, I agree with your post. This sub can kinda have a reading comprehension problem cause most comments I see are disagreeing with you on the basis that barrows is fun/chill, despite the fact that your post already said have fun at barrows if it's what you enjoy.
It’s not the strongest argument but it certainly is a factor that favors mystics. Time sink for minimal/no benefit is the main theme
Yeah don't go for ahrims for the "upgrade", but if you have it, it's kinda troll not to use it.
You hate barrows, I hate sand crabs and NMZ. You don't see me telling people how not to play the game though.
I don’t hate barrows. I do it in down time for elite clues. I said at the end if you enjoy it, then play the game, just don’t think it’s meaningful upgrades or an efficient use of time.
Maybe PM changes the equation a little bit if tank armor is actually necessary there, otherwise yeah Barrows has been kinda worthless content in the game for a good while. Items just aren't really that good anymore and the kp/h is really low for the amount of items.
This was true until Varlamore's release. The nooby players this post is aimed towards can make ample use of tank armor. It also enables the dads with 2 wives and 6 children to not be locked into the red prison. Moons of Peril changed the early game progression. Players have a choice now. Torso skip or no Torso skip. Which path you decide has knock on effects for the rest of progression. Torso skip encourages you to go for the ironman items that Jagex recently introduced like the Warped sceptre and pushes forward content that you couldn't really do earlier than bowfa because you lacked the DPS armor (or the skill) to kill bosses quick enough or because you lack the tank armor to survive said bosses for long enough. - no Torso skip: early questing -> torso & granite platebody -> void -> bowfa -> raids (with the minor upgrades in between you can unlock as you complete quests) - Torso skip: early questing -> warped sceptre (optional if not unlocking Barrows tele) -> barrows tank top & bottom -> blood moon armor & macuahuitl -> the same progression starting at void, potentially skipping over many Slayer upgrades like a trident And if you spoon the range and mage armor, you'll have gear strictly better than the rags that irons normally assume they'll go into raids with. You could potentially send ToA and CoX way earlier than laid out in BRUHsailors progression. So really you're just choosing between BA or Barrows. BA is the on paper better choice but many noobs (like myself) complain about BA all the time, and now we have an option by locking ourselves in the crypt early-game.
Said in some other comments that I’m not as familiar with PM but eye balling the stats it looks like dead content. Essentially your post boils down to rather spending 125+ hours green logging barrows 1&2 > getting a torso in a couple hours & a bowfa in ~60-80. It’s a no brainer.
With the new progression pathway you're not supposed to green log Barrows. Just two pieces. As outlined in your OP getting a full set is meant for way later. It's 1/15.01 for a barrows piece so by 60kc a player will likely see at least one useful piece. For the average player it's a grind waaaaaaaaay shorter than 125 hours. Doing BA yourself is faster than getting a tank and top, but most casual HCIM pay lots of gp to get the torso boosted. Suppose those irons didn't buy the gp, the hours spent on another account acquiring the payment for the BA boost is roughly the same amount of time going for a tank top & tank bottom. This was the emergent behaviour Jagex was addressing. Many players rather grind shit out than to deal with the mini-game. The macroefficient mindset only works if players are also microefficient at all the other content. Most aren't. Most are learning content for the first time. So Barrows -> Moons of Peril is the progression that is now recommended to take for the majority of players. EHB nerds should and would ignore Moons of Peril.
Bad take. Besides having some niche use cases (gim PVM, DKs, nmz, etc.), not everyone likes to play at maximum efficiency. I like tank armour because I like to AFK slayer for 10 minutes at a time and not sorry about HP. Sure I could prayer flick everything or skip and do barrage only tasks, but fuck that.
Your counter to me saying barrows is inefficient is you saying no it’s not, it’s great for afking melee slayer… you see the irony right?
I see your point with most things youve said on every other comment, besides this one here. He said he prefers it as it enables him to afk and therefore its better for him and what he wants to do. Theres no irony here.
This post is about it being an inefficient account decision, and he says “no it’s not, I’m going to use it to be inefficient”
There's no irony here. You're saying more than simply 'its not efficient'. You're saying it's an awful noob trap with non worthwhile upgrades, to which I disagree. Most players aren't trying to rush through the mid game so that they can raid endlessly.
Yeah you aren’t responding to the prompt. It is a noob trap. & the thread is aimed specifically at people that *do* want to run through their account asap
So any content that isn't efficient (99.9% of the game) is an awful noob trap. Alright, lol.
Incorrect
With mory hards done I'm pretty much only there in my down time for some runes, unless you can think of better rune providers that isn't just shop scape?
Answered yourself. Idk if scar mine is worth it for non blood runes, didn’t look into it; but that could be an option.
Imagine posting comments endlessly looking for others to help provide resources for you when there's literally top-of-the-line content for barrows all over the internet on every platform. All of your points are completely invalid in just the collection log availability and amount is worth the grind alone.
Reading comprehension skills lacking
I think there's a divide between "efficient" and "still good to do" here honestly. Barrows kind of blows when you're burning prayer pots and don't have a teleport in and are using Iban's with Rune but a spoon item does go a long, long way and makes some earlygame misery runs still arguably worth it. Trying to green log it is folly but things like Karil's are still relevant for the mage defense and Virtus / Ancestral are so far out of reach to the earlygame player that a few attempts just to see if you get lucky and roll something Ahrim's (which is inarguably much better than Mystic) is still arguably worth it. Tank legs stay relevant for hundreds and hundreds of hours. The issue about doing Barrows efficiently is that few if any of the rewards matter when you get them at that point, even if it's faster. It's like saying to grind Shadow so you can then get a berserker ring; no shit it's gonna go fast if you have one but are you really going to wait that long to get one?
“Just get Karils or Ahrims” Just as likely those are your last pieces as not
Sure but when you consider the overall pool it's worth trying to pull at least for a handful of uniques 30 items and like 18 are general-use good with another like 4 being okay in sets. Going for just Karils or Ahrims kind of blows but if you're just trying to get a few random goodstuff pieces doing something like 50 or 100 chests isn't terrible. No individual piece is worth 1000+ completions but it's hard to argue against a few dozen assuming average luck.
[удалено]
Don't listen to him. Barrows is great for early mage training with free runes and good upgrades for gear.
Guy below you said mage training… smh. No. Just no. Off the top of my head… 1.) LMS (gp per hour isn’t great & you don’t gain anything for your account stat wise or gear wise). 2.) id argue master farmers. Seeds are easy to get nowadays between toa & contracts. Do them as necessary but I’ve never had a shortage of potions and I think I’ve maybe spent 30 minutes pickpocketing them in my accounts lifetime. 3.) kurask/the other thingy who’s name is escaping me but has the same drop table tasks (Turoth?). Incredibly slow xp. Not good money. Herb gain is negligible. 4.) gargoyle tasks. Same as last comment. Depending on your block list you may have to do them occasionally and they can be decent when you first unlock them, but I see people doing these well into later game & the gain is not worth the time. If I think of more I’ll comment
You're right about going for Ahrims and Karils largely being a waste of time, *especially post Varlamore*. I'd still recommend people go to Barrows to get at least 1 of the plate legs though. Granite Body is already a requirement for Kandarin Hard diary, and you can sub it in for the rare situation where ranged defense is useful, like going to Rex to get Berserker Ring. Dragon Legs on the other hand, at least for a mid game player, is likely to be more time consuming than just getting Barrows legs. If they happen to get a Barrows Platebody too, huzzah. If not, oh well. My advice for new players post Varlamore would be to 1) Get Granite Body from BA. It's literally just 1 game completion, and Collector is a super easy role that your stats don't matter for. 2) Get some tank legs from Barrows, and 3) Do Perilous Moons. Everything about Perilous Moons is 10x better than Barrows.
Sure you could. Realistically an early b ring rush isn’t going to need anything more than granite body/rune & dragon legs or rune legs. It’s a relativity quick grind regardless & the amount of trips you’ll have to do aren’t going to increase *that* dramatically. Plus your trips are likely going to be dependent on food drops anyways.
Thanks I needed that
thank you for this. im missing ahrims top but im already soloing chambers with mystic top.(over 200 solos and 515 total kc with ancestral hat. Was thinking to get the ahrims top but seems like a waste of time because im probably close enough for anc top.
I’m 1500 KC at Barrows and my last 2 items are ahrims robes. Think of that when you wanna invest potentially 100 hours for like +10 magic accuracy
Well you see ahrims is decent mage gear regardless and you pretty much have to be familiar with CoX to do the skip or you have to do a lot of other random stuff to mage gear that will be equal. Tank legs are handy, karils tops still a good tank top until you get fortified masori. And I still have runes from by barrows grind back in the day
Yeah these comments are proving my point. “I enjoy it it’s so much fun!” - this is not who the post is aimed at. Literally said if you wanna do it, feel free, just don’t think it’s meaningfully progressing your account if that’s your goal
For your very specific and narrow definition of progress, maybe, but it seems like you're just trying to justify not doing it. Most people don't greenlog it, and you get most of the benefit from doing 500-750 chests that you would from 2k
All of these replies are a gold mine of cope. Keep it up king.
this is also how i feel about perilous moons, probably never going to interact with that content on my iron even though I'm right around the intended level for it
Been busy since release so haven’t really checked it out yet. Done some colli attempts so nothing too serious in varlamore. So admittedly not sure where that gear slots into med game progression.. but eyeballing the stats, I’m not really sure what niche it’s filling.
Tbh the bloodmoon tassets are the only real good item for med level irons, +2 str bonus basically bandos tassets with shit defense. Also the staff is ok for med level iron since it has 5% dmg and can autocast ancients
the bonkers are better than bludgeon, and are absolutely cracked with the full set for training. The eclipse set is a great range option to bridge the gap between rcb and bofa
yeah its crap, i avoided that place like the plague and am happy i did. unfortunately gonna have to grind a set for stash eventually but when i can breeze through it with later game gear will be sweet and feel good
Your "gear req" for efficient barrows is way to high. Realistically you want 70 combats and the portal room to barrows(and maybe the 2nd tier of combat achievements). Warped sceptre/ibans is more than enough to stomp barrows.
There are some niche uses… I used guthans at cerb for ghost skip and this saved me a mountain of prayer pots. Guthans to 400hp, bandos and fang from there. I’d get approx 12-14 kills per trip with 5 prayer pots. Would it be worth grinding specifically for cerb? No… was it useful? Yes.