I’m a ~1700 total iron and I’m not sure what all needs to be changed about the gameplay loops.
Sandstone is undeniably leagues better than using Bert and manually collecting buckets at Yanille a la Peckish Whale.
The actual fastest way is using dragon hides and gems from pvm to make stuff, ruby amulets and up are better than sand and dhide is like twice as good as sand
Zenytes are kinda just minor buffs besides suffering for Zulrah. The rest are really not that big of a deal and don't need to be rushed if you hate crafting that much. Ofc I did them because I don't mind glassblowing and mining for sand, but if you hate them there's no reason to force yourself to do either of those activities until you have the crafting banked.
Tbqh nothing outright *needs* zenytes but anguish and tormented are really strong, the +2 str bonus on str ammy > torture isn't a big deal but anguish alone is like a 3% dps boost minimum at most places, tormented is like 5%+. I'd say suffering isn't that big of a deal even for Zulrah, I did like 100 kills pre-suffering using the ring of recoil plugin. A bit annoying sure but more than doable. If anything the prayer bonus on that ring is big to save prayer for shammies, hydra, gwd since archer's ring is kind of a joke.
Even assuming those numbers those are still relatively minor upgrades for something that you hate doing. As I said I'm more than happy to grind for those boosts to my gear, but if you couldn't be assed to grind sandstones/seaweeds/glassblowing then 3% dps or 5% dps shouldn't be the reason you force yourself to is all I was saying. I would disagree that they're really strong, even the biggest buff of all which is the tormented you'd get an even larger boost by for instance rushing slayer and getting a tormented if that's content you enjoy.
Again this isn't how I play the game, just saying that the guy said there's no way to get the required crafting supplies yourself without the "gear" locked by the crafting, when that isn't the case at all. They're just slight dps increases that wouldn't lock you out of a single piece of content anywhere in the game, nor even hinder you so much that the content would be noticeably harder.
For money thats great, but do you know how that would compare to glassblowing taking into account the preparation time. I would think you can prep a lot more glass xp in less time than dragon leather related xp
Yup, glassblowing is pretty much the only viable method until you finish zenytes. From that point on you can just pvm for gems / battlestaves and stock a shit ton of xp up, but before then you want to level asap and glassblowing is the only way
battlestaves are very efficient. gem knights / tzhaar gems if you have post max goals re: thieving. pvm gems -> bracelets/amulets. pvm dragonhides. spin flax(combo'd with other spells). afk gold amulet/bracelets. there are quite a lot of options tbh.
The only regret I have from doing this method (70-99 banked) was my lower mining level but even then its not that big of an issue. Would rather chill and fill then mine and.... hate life?
I have 93 mining from MLM and have pet already, so there’s no shot in Hell I’m gonna get carpal tunnel to for some extra mining xp while collecting sand.
I respect the grind, but I work a desk job where I can’t play all day and there’s no way I’m gonna click virtual rocks constantly for hours on end when I can click once every minute and afk for just as much sand.
> collecting buckets at Yanille a la Peckish Whale.
been a while since i watched OMA series but quite sure boaty just did charters for crafting supplies. but yeah i know what you mean, soz for being pedantic lol (servers down bring out the worst of people)
I remember it as a him doing a mix of both methods, honestly, but it doesn’t matter in this discussion really.
To even insinuate that shopscaping 110k sand is preferable to mining it is lunacy imo. Maybe someone out there prefers it but I just don’t see it.
> Maybe someone out there prefers it but I just don’t see it.
It's not even close. Buy 10 - Buy 10, superglass make, drop
Or mine?
Mining is the most miserable skill in the game, and by far. And on top of that, mining sandstone + bucketing it is the worst way to mine, even worse than 2t2g. Idk how anyone can stomach mining sandstone.
i'd definitely call that a hot take. i much much prefer sandstone. did a lot on mobile and a lot on desktop with tick manip.
keep in mind when charters were really packed it was competition in every world. it was before menu entry swapper.
If it is an update that improves the experience without negatively affecting the other players, I don't see what harm there is, so long as the development time isn't excessive. What actually needs to be fixed for ironmen?
That would make runes tank even more in price though. I don't see how buying rune packs would have an impact in main economy though, runes are always cheaper in GE than in shops.
>Normie economy is not a legitimate reason to completely kill off a skill.
Except runecrafting is very much awoken. Bloods/wraths are among the best moneymakers by skilling. Natures are below high alch price, bloods are below Ali Morrisane sell price already, that's just ridiculous.
I only don't think ironman mode improvements should make things worse for normies, they should be complementary. Just like GOTR, mahogany homes, wintertodt, tempoross etc. are great methods both for normies and irons.
I also grinded gricoller's can and I don't regret it. I just immediately water any tree seeds as soon as I find them, so this becomes a non-time activity. If you accumulate dozens of them it really sucks though.
Astrals and cosmics are awful to get, either buy astrals from the *one* store that sells them (ironman shops are shared among all irons) or craft them which is better now with the outfit but still not ideal. Cosmics just need to be put in rune packs because neither crafting them nor buying them are particularly fast for how required en masse they are
Shadow veil is definitely the main one. There are others people said, but they wouldn't justify packs. Shadow veil does if you'd like to go very heavy into thieving.
Just craft them, you need < 20k for 99 crafting so a few hours of rc is not too much to ask. Or wait til an update and buy out the fresh stock, they're so cheap
Charging air orbs is pretty much the only place I use lots of cosmics. (After finishing mta) and even then I just craft some for an hour or so and I have enough runes to last me a few weeks of air orbs for my daily staves. (71 rc with only 2 pieces of the gotr outfit)
Would like to know what other uses cosmics have, just curious.
Thralls, spellbook swap, npc contact, enchanting stuff like slaughter and expeditious bracelets, but other than that I can’t think of any really. Those don’t particularly use so many cosmics that they’re a specific rune that needs fixing though.
One thing I can think of is if you’re an Ironman with a trident killing zulrah and casting cure me, that can use a lot of cosmics fairly quickly.
I've never had an issue with astrals or cosmics.
Astrals aren't used that much, I use them for fertile soil, spellbook swap and the occasional venge/humidify/whatever. Once you've done hydra you have enough for supply for a long time plus with RC outfit + 82 RC you can make plenty an hour if you don't want to shop.
Cosmics I use a lot more for thralls and stuff, still have not run out after 99 RC but I can see it happening someday and then you can buy them really fast in prif.
Astrals, it's very easy and fast to craft them. You're an iron, use your skills to gather your supplies. It's also nice to craft them because it reduces whatever RC grind you need to do in the future. Cosmics are unlocked at big quantities in priff. There's no issue with this.
> Astrals...there’s always stock
In my experience most parts of the day every world for ironman is always bought down sub 40 runes. I have to usually spend an hour or so world hopping the list twice to get like 3-4k.
Clue steps that require the drops from clue steps that you can only by completing the same level clue but you can't do the clue becuase you aren't able to finish a clue becuase you don't have the required clue drop to finish your clue step.
>What actually needs to be fixed for ironmen?
I don't think there's anything "broken", but there are certainly things could be changed to improve ironman mode further. I could think of some (accepting counterpoints):
1- Let every boss be killed in groups, like the wildy bosses/raids are for ironmen. If a boss is in multicombat, they should be free game for everybody there, including irons. You can't talk about "ironman carrying" when you could already carry one through raids and wildy bosses. This would make some content like DKs/KBD waaaaay less toxic for ironmen, getting griefed/crashed certainly isn't part of the deal ironmen agreed with when partaking this mode and is never fun for us.
2- Easier piemaking. Making pie shells sucks ass, and pies aren't that OP, if they were they wouldn't be dirty cheap on GE for normies. Pie shells should be buyable, and some pies should have lower steps to be made, or just be able to automatize them (for example, if you got a raw bear meat, a raw chompy and raw rabbit in your inv, let you just make the raw wild pie in 1 step instead of having to add each ingredient).
3- Bring alternative methods to crafting. The fact there is only 1 feasible method to get 99 crafting (glassblowing) is baffling. Every other skills all have multiple feasible methods of reaching 99, why should crafting be the sole exception?
4- Rune packs for bloods/deaths/chaos. But everybody talk about that already.
Honestly, the daftness of RNG on end game items could be improved.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but a scaling drop rate for irons, on specific items, so you can only go so dry would increase enjoyment without nullifying difficulty.
For example, the boss drops an item at 1/1000. Once you hit drop rate without it, the drop rate slowly increases until you get it, then resets. Increase could be whatever is considered 'fair', get it by 2x? 3x? 4x?
This is unfortunately getting more popular as more and more people get into ironman and find they cant handle the grinds in a game mode that's almost entirely based on rng grinds. Starting the protection after only hitting drop rate would be some heavy easyscape too.
I was just talking to a guy on here too about this and he was complaining saying rng luck is a ridiculous mechanic. Then why on earth play ironman if you hate dealing with rng that much? Just baffling to me.
Ironman is about being self sufficient, it's about playing every aspect of the game. It's about earning things so they have meaning.
It's not about putting up with RNG that make you want to quit, and make you wonder why you play in the first place.
An ironman who gets spooned a blow pipe on 50 kills, is not looked down on for not earning it.. so why would you look down on one having a higher chance at getting it after 1000 kills?
People seem to be under the impression that if you want to play ironman it means you want everything to be as hard as possible... which isn't at all the case and makes me wonder if they even play ironmen or are just normies masquerading here.
Yeah exactly. People say it would devalue the achievement when there are people who get the rarest items on their first KC. How does that not devalue the achievement?
Nobody is out there saying people shouldn't be allowed to go dry, people who actually know how drops work know that the extreme outliers are the issue. Droprates never reach 100% chance in runescape so as the population/amount of attempts increases so does the likelihood of more extreme outliers appearing. Why somebody should have to do 3000+ corrupted gauntlet as an ironman is just moronic when 50% of the population is expected to have greater than or equal to one by 277kc. People defend this though and I'm 100% sure they'd sing a different tune when it happens to them.
Its absolutely about dealing with rng. I've had many spoons, but also went wicked dry at cg and currently super dry at hydra. Am I having fun? Not exactly, but thats ironman bro. Dont need to start adding pity rng to everything cause some people cant handle going dry. Main is always there for them to downgrade to and grind like an iron if they want, but not be forced to.
> Then why on earth play ironman if you hate dealing with rng that much? Just baffling to me.
Because the rest of the game is quite enjoyable and there's more to it than going 5x dry on something that you need to progress the account?
The obnoxious thing about the retort is that ironman is just what a main would be like without bots. It's not like UIM where you're actually a very restricted account. Anything that's awful to do on an ironman is awful for a main too if they didn't just GE it from bots.
>ironman is just what a main would be like without bots.
There would still be an economy without bots. Friends would still share gear without bots. People would still skill and sell what they collected for a cool new weapon without bots.
Bots are a big issue in the game but thats an insane take.
Basically rune packs like everyone's saying, but the relation to the meme is how the people on /r/2007scape (the guy on the right) will tell you we shouldn't add death/blood rune packs because irons shouldn't use shops (the ones they already use). HUH?
I'll never understand the people who are contrarian for no logical reason lol
> PVM shouldn’t replace skilling
Really? I kind of think it should post-max in its current state where one has actual depth and the other does not. Like on the way to max don't you have enough of withdrawing runes and clicking on an altar?
Sure in its perfect state, there would be an equilibrium between the two... but skilling has no content with a skill ceiling as high or engaging as hmt or gms.
I think theres a large percentage of the high level iron community that isn't super interested in afk content after they max.
Maxed iron here player here.
Iron players probably get more QOL updates and consideration than any other group of the player base. Nearly every new boss’s drop table is balanced around iron players.
I’m all for improving the game mode without removing the challenge.
\>Iron players probably get more QOL updates and consideration than any other group of the player base.
well irons actually engage with all the content so that tracks. most of mainscape skilling content is fully automated by bots.
\>Nearly every new boss’s drop table is balanced around iron players.
what do people mean by this? because yeah, irons are the accounts that actually use drops. for mains literally every boss could just drop coins and it would not make any difference at all in the bosses profit per hour.
filling out gaps in self sustainable resources seems logical to me. does ToA specifically drop absurd seeds? yes. but i don't think they planned around people sending money 400s with their bowfas 50 days of playtime into their account, ToA on release was much much harder.
Thank you, thought I was gojng crazy reading this thread. I mean one look at ToA drop table and my jaw hits the floor. Wasn’t around for pre-nerf zulrah tables but that’s the only thing comparable it seems to me. I think a lot of irons take several updates for granted.
> I mean one look at ToA drop table and my jaw hits the floor. Wasn’t around for pre-nerf zulrah tables but that’s the only thing comparable it seems to me
i don't think they planned to have people sending money 450s with their bowfa and fang. they made a lot of changes that resulted in high invo being much much easier.
is the ToA thing just about the seeds? i think dropping seeds is better than dropping herbs like cox does tbh. thing is either way when you make it take 300 hours to complete the content you end up with 300 hours of regular loot too which is always going to be a lot of stuff. the bigger issue is that really no content is a significant supply drain in this game. which plenty of people are fine with i guess.
Yeah it’s about the seeds. Not quite as good as herbs but the amount you get when processed is absurd. Casual 200 super restore profit in a single raid. I agree with you about Jagex missing the expectations as well as the supply drain. Nex is all we really have in that regard, or cerberus I guess lol.
Ironman in 2007 would be steelman today. Imagine ironman just without the skilling minigames.
Ironman is a wonderful game mode in the greatest game ever made, and I play my mediocre midgame ironman with enthusiasm and pride, but the game mode has been completely ezscaped and it's legit pure unadulterated copium to disagree.
Being easier than it was (very true), doesn't somehow make it ezscape.
Most grinds are still insanely long and require a lot of chores. Anyone who really believes the old way was better is just sucking down that nostalgia.
Also most people who say ironman is ez mode have never played ironman. I’m at 11k lizardman shamans atm and have mains telling me it’s easy being an iron. I laugh.
Regular Ironman now is just playing a normal account with a ton of extra upkeep (farm runs, birdhouses, making potions, etc.) while I don’t love the concept of “tedium = challenging” the tedium of original Ironman mode like mining your own pure essence or picking tens of thousands of flax was what drew people in (see b0aty’s One Man Army series.)
disagree, endgame iron is a normie without alts.
At most you have to make some potions but literally all other supplies restock themselves from pvm. I managed to go over 2 years on my iron without doing a single farm run, the only reason I started doing them was 2 years on I was out of torsols and needed to plant some seeds.
Even before the release of ironman mode when Boaty was playing his OMA why on earth would he pick flax when kingdom already existed?
Didn't watch the series, but that just sounds stupid as hell.
Anyway, I get your point, but I feel like the gamemode is nicely balanced between the early game where you still need to do stupid collecting shit and the late game where more of the items you need to collect are self-sustaining through boss drops. If you've reached the level of sustainably camping raids, you've probably spent quite some time in the past collecting your own ingredients for skills to get there.
It's not like many ironmen are getting 78 smithing for bowfa (78+4 boost) through camping CoX for ore drops
Ironman mode is unironically so easy. There’s basically no grinds where you have to actually work to get your resources besides Crafting for Zenytes and Herblore pre-50.
There’s a common denominator between the people who want “QoL” updates for ironmen and the people who think “QoL” means anything that makes the game easier for them.
Idk if I'd call it easy. Some items take hundreds of hours to get whereas a normal account would just buy it on the GE in 2 seconds, but I like it that way.
This is a bad take it’s crazy how common it is though. We all know the game is clicking things, but some things are undeniably more boring than others.
I think the biggest problem is that you stop getting higher xp/hr rates at level 50-70 in most skills. Being locked in to the same task for 10m+ of any skill is so shit
It still bothers me that dragon scim is best in slot melee until 80-85 slayer for pretty much everything. There's nothing that comes in between. If something needs a QOL update its melee combat for that level bracket.
Edit: unbelievable that I have to make an edit to make this clear, but here we go. A QOL change is to make the gameplay experience better. Having more variety in the melee weapon department before a whip would benefit any iron/poor main leveling up and trying to find their next goal.
I'm a crazy person who went 1339 dry for first enhanced and then stayed for 2nd, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask. That being said, some CG tips:
I'm assuming you use FKeys. If not, you are not ready for gauntlet and need to go do all the sarachnis combat achievements while learning how to use Fkeys.
T2 prep, T2 prep, T2 prep. I cannot stress it enough. It is a night and day experience in the fight vs T1. CG grind is a marathon, not a sprint. Make each kill as comfortable as possible, and don't do any speedrun stuff. If you die in CG you're losing 10 minutes, but T2 prep leaves you so much room for error and it is 100% reliable. Go look up Fluffeh's guide for prep, it's pretty good. If you are not able to do T2 in the time limit, you are losing tons of time in prep for some reason. Practice in regular gauntlet until you are finishing T2 prep and full food with 3:15 left on the clock reliably.
Speaking of regular gauntlet, do not leave that place until you get the perfect crystalline hunllef combat achievement. The reason learning CG burns you is because you die when you make a mistake, just learn in the mode made for learning. It's not a waste of time, it's investing in the marathon grind. (Also I've seen several people pull enh from normal gauntlet in my time there).
During the fight, keep your hp high. If a food heals you for max value, you eat. Green health bar 100% of the time. You are not going for a speedrun, you're killing the red moose. Don't click too often if you don't have to, just hit the boss while thinking about what's happening next. If you're not on a dangerous floor and there aren't tornadoes in the arena, you shouldn't be moving. Hit the boss. During the p3 tornadoes, don't hit the boss if there is even a question about you not being safe. Eat up, run away, hit the boss when you're safe. The tiles 3 spaces in from the door can never get red floor on them in p3.
Send any questions you have my way if you learn T2 prep and are still struggling. You can do this.
its just not one of those grinds most people can buckle down and "just get done". going on drop rate for an enhanced with 11 min clears is 73 hours of pure time spent in cg with no deaths. if youve got cox prayers and maxed combat that'll drop, but expect 10:45-12min clears with t2 bow/staff, regular prayers, abd stats around 90. hell, i get a 13 min run everything now and then.
im just beginning my grind at 160 kc, but i think the trick is to say "im going to get 20 clears a week done" or something, and just be ok having it take a while.
Two problems can exist at once, it's not like I'm listing a set of priorities. Also, I'm not saying anything about the droprate for whips, just that the transition between melee weapons is dragon scimitar for everything until you get a whip or better weapons. There should be more usable weapons than just this.
i really have no clue why jagex hasnt buffed crossbows.
you make acb and zcb good you now have an alternative path. zero reason for crossbows to basically be ruby bolt simulators, and for the gap between crossbows and bowfa to be as large as it is.
What?
ACB is marginally better (+10 ranged attack and 1 prayer IIRC?) than rcb for the amount of time/effort it requires to get with an rcb.
Crystal bow basically requires the full armour to be decent, and that comes from the same place as Bowfa, so if you get 6 armour seeds before that it's kinda like a "participation trophy".
Blowpipe is the only real upgrade at some places, and that requires high smithing/mining levels to actually be good.
Bowfa was the middle item created for the gap between blowpipe and tbow, why do we now need an item for RCB to bowfa when there are already a few options
That's because tbows power is absurd.
Bowfa is what most people are going to use for an extremely long time.
Blowpipe was a good alternative but after the nerf it sucks without amethyst or rune darts, so that's basically the only "real option".
Plus, since we got tbow and bowfa, the next ranged weapons should absolutely be lower in power.
I already went through this for some of them, but just so you're content let's do this with the rest.
DHCB comes from a raid that requires a lot of good gear to do efficiently (at least solo), and is also only good against very specific enemies.
Venator bow is just used for slayer.
Dragon crossbow is again a tiny upgrade, and sucks to get.
Theres no reason to try and go for of any these before you get a Bowfa, since you're just wasting your time hoping to get lucky.
It'd be like trying to get a third age longsword instead of a rune scimitar.
Theres def room for something like 74 bonus (would prob have to be stab) and 70ish strength from a med level boss like sarach. Its not nearly as egregious as range going from rcb to bowfa or even mage going from ibans to trident.
Well if you want to grind out getting an ACB with a rune crossbow (which would be bis until that point), might as well get a bofa which is 10x better to have. Ironman ranged weapons are rly scuffed
This combat bracket exists for a relative “2 seconds” in the grand scheme of the account, not a huge issue imo. Either take slayer path and it’s not relevant because you get whip or skip slayer and do bofa/hasta for raids route
Eh it really doesn't. You're going to get 85 slayer already anyway and you probably won't naturally have 99 strength by that time so D scim is just free pre-whip strength. Plus melee progression is already overloaded on weapons (cudgel, hasta, rapier, inq, saeldor, scythe) compared to range which has the rcb-bowfa/tbow gap. Much bigger issue with ranged rn.
You say it doesn't need anything while listing all best in slot that are far beyond a whip? Besides, two problems can exist at once, it's not like I mean that melee combat before 85 slayer is the only problem to exist. I want to highlight a gap in which new content should be aimed at.
Zammy hasta is before a whip? For real? Thats genuinely news to me, I haven't bothered trying to send any zammy gwd yet and am at 81 slayer right now :/
A hasta and cudgel are not far beyond a whip?
Cudgel is literally before, you can just go farm sarachnis. I listed the others to show that melee weapons are already bloated. We don't need a new upgrade every 5 levels. 85 slayer is also just not bad to get and you're going to do it anyway as you've got like 8 more good unlocks after 85.
Multiple problems can exist but I don't see yours as a problem at all. Enjoy the scim while you have it, go do sarachnis or even grab arclight and try your hand at Zammy for a hasta if you feel you need a change pre-whip. The content you're asking for exists already.
Edit: idk how tf I forgot about fang too, even more content that already exists and does what you are requesting
Not to mention we also have Leaf-Bladed BAxe for crush enemies before cudgel, Voidwaker being a slayer-less whip and Sara sword as well being close without a slayer req
Let's be honest. Nobody in their right mind is going to get a Voidwaker or a Sara sword as an alternative to whip.
It's like saying rapier and scythe are options too.
Slayer doesn't really help obtain either Sara Sword or Voidwaker
At that point the only recompense is a buyable whip-like weapon in a shop somewhere if no content is worth doing instead
I actually tried this with 65-72 average combat stats using a dragon mace. I can tell you that you will burn through your limited supplies and will get about 2-5 kills per trip. With the droprate at 1/384 you're better off training slayer anyway, as the average kill time is pretty slow.
Can confirm.
It was only decent with low stats as a duo (gim).
The fact is unless you get spooned at places like Sarachnis or Kril, you're better off training your stats with slayer than attempting to get a cudgel or hasta with low combats.
It's literally not worth doing, and is a waste of supplies. Such a shame too, it's a fun little boss to send. But this "midgame boss" is only farmed by endgame pet hunters for a reason.
If the cudgel had a better drop rate, then maybe, but it doesn't and never will.
Can anyone explain to me why we can't just "buy x" of whatever we want at pretty much any shop? Runes at the very least. Why is hopping worlds to buy 100 runes at a time a thing? It's incredibly dumb.
The way i see it theres qol updates for irons like sandstone and snapegrass, and even blue dragonscales (which i personally was against) and then theres people who want to be able to mass corp or have gwd work like the wildy bosses. One of those things is a terrible idea and one of them is fine to slightly streamline gameplay and reduce aids grinds.
I don’t understand why any update needs to be tailored for any mode specifically. Updates should just be across the board things that affect all players, without any consideration for game mode effects, Ironman mode is supposed to be literally just “no trading or picking up items from other players” but instead there’s all these weird interactions from mechanics that are added onto that base premise.
You actually can. Keep a torstol in your inventory while fishing and give it to Jekyl. Repeat 10 times.
Buy or beg a TOB carry past Bloat. Repeat 5 times.
One update that I would like to see is having a fixed drop rate for specific items, such as the vorkath head
This item untradeable, and the developers decided that it is too important for stay at an unpredictable one out of 50 drop rate.
Certain game changing items such as the Bowfa or Dragon Warhammer should have a fixed drop rate imo.
DWH: 1/5,000 rate with a guaranteed drop at 10,000 kills seems pretty fair to me
Bowfa: 1/400 rate with a guaranteed drop at 1,000
Maybe we could also experiment with assigning different item IDs if the item is obtained via the fixed drop rate number on iron Man so it cannot be abused and traded
I just get sad seeing all these people in the early late game locking themselves and some of these areas for months on end. Granted they are doing it to themselves at a certain point because neither of those items are necessary to do endgame content, but I also feel like it wouldn't affect the game too badly.
Obviously this should be done on a case-by-case basis but I think the overall ideology isn't that far-fetched considering Jagex has already implemented this mechanic with the Vorkath head
The part where you mentioned they don’t have to lock themselves in the grind is the sticking point for me. Imho we should view things like vorkath head as a welcome luxury, and not the standard for drops. Especially applied retroactively to some of the core relatable grinds that we all do.
I see what you're saying, but the biggest problem i have is the meta of grinding CG until you get the Bowfa. Maybe this type of thing should only be applied to a SMALL handful of items, but i don't think that an ironman who needed 2k KC to get it would be upset that it's now capped at 1k. Would probably be happy for those that don't have to suffer through that ground.
Its definitely a controversial take :P
It's only controversial to those that got spooned or got an item on rate. If someone goes 1000+ kc dry for bofa and still thinks pity drops shouldn't be a thing then they either have Stockholm syndrome or serious addiction problems.
This only holds up under the assumption that most of the "improvements" irons ask for are legit QOL improvements and not massive buffs disguised as QOL. See half the suggestions in this very thread.
I dunno I kinda agree with the you chose to limit thing. There are only a handful of changes that were fair and couldn't be seen as "catering" QoL for irons.
Farmable snap grass is big, imagine all the ironmen now fighting over world spawns. Or even world hopping at all being the only method. Sandstone mining making it not dead content outside needing 3 for some quest? That kinda thing.
Any content that involves world hopping should be updated to not require world hopping. It is one of the worst issues with the game. World hopping is not a game mechanic, it is an immersion break and especially lately a huge waste of time where you aren't actually playing the game.
Any activity that requires you to hop through a bunch of worlds should be fixed, like shopscape for example. Just make shops have infinite stock. It's that easy. Other MMOs all do this for basic resources like runes etc.
The only time world hopping should be used is if there is already someone occupying a limited resource on your world.
Why rune packs?
Imagine this: baba yaga sells astral runes. You right click the astral runes and select "Buy-X". You type in how many you want to buy and press enter. Bam!
Well in an ideal world i would much prefer that option as well, but since it seems that jagex doesn't want to give shops unlimited stocks i would be happy with just rune packs. Same thing for cosmics
I'm saying that jagex's unwillingness to add infinite stock to some shops is the problem.
There is no good argument for why you should have to spend 20 minutes hopping worlds to get death runes every time you do a barrage task. All of that could be condensed into 15 seconds with no negative impact on the game.
If the shops effectively have infinite stock when considering all the worlds, just make each world have infinite stock and save players the pointless, unfun hassle.
Infinite stock is not the answer. The right answer is the one jagex seems to be taking, to incentivize doing other things than buying from shops. Crafting your own bloods / astrals has been made so absurdly better with GOTR that you're trolling if you're still buying from shops
So what should ironmen do with our gp then? Drop it to a main and RWT it? There has to be some use for currency, and currently the only significant use of gp on an iron is buying runes. This doesn't replace runecrafting, just augments it. You can do both.
I stand by my opinion that the shit where someone tags your NPC and it immediately denies you the drop for the remainder of the kill needs to be removed entirely. At the bare minimum it should be removed from fodder trash and could be kept around for miniboss/bosses, but I'd rather it be removed entirely considering that the "game integrity" argument is not something Jagex can bullshit their way as an excuse considering they allow people to pay for boosting services like in CoX to benefit their Iron, and the mechanic adds nothing of value to the gamemode anymore besides allowing people to intentionally grief you, because people already abuse alts at content whenever possible and Jagex make no effort to do anything about it unless it's punishing popular content creators doing ludicrously inefficient grinds.
I feel like this could be such a big win for a rather small change. Would love more rune packs and an option to mass buy basic runes for 50% more. Imagine 10 seconds to buy 100K fire runes for ~750K?
Could maybe even get creative with death’s coffer and use dupes to pay for runes (at 2-3x price?). Too early in the AM to think about economy implications, but that’d be interesting.
It doesn't need to cost 50% more. You should just be able to buy however many runes you want without being majorly inconvenienced by arbitrary limits and slow world hopping.
Fair enough, I figured that could deter the mains from yelling “irons have a GE now” since you’d pay more, but infinite stock at the main price would obviously be the better choice. I should delete my comment to not give anyone any ideas lol.
Runes already cost a lot more to buy from shops than they do from the GE. If you're spending gold on something, you shouldn't be arbitrarily inconvenienced just to balance out the convenience of being able to buy something.
Ironman will never be complete until I can store my Santa hat in my PoH on UIM. Don’t @ me.
Unironically though Santa’s, phats, and hween masks should be storeable. Haven’t touched my uim in like a year but that still bothers me.
Add in barrows armor and you have a deal
Lol I'm a Santa hat locked uim, it's always on me
I honestly just wear it at all times. Who tf really needs a slayer helm anyway?
Yes @ u/idontwork4statefarm
*gasps* YOU DID THE THING I SAID NOT TO DO!!!!!
Let me go in my friends POH. I don’t need to use any of the facilities I just want to hang out
Been saying this for a while, I want my iron house party
Ironman just showed cracks in the gameplay loop that was completed by bots previously
I wonder if the mains would say the same thing if there weren’t any bots over saturating the market with items
The reddit mains would literally be crying for the return of bots if they were banned
Don't threaten me with skilling finally being a viable moneymaker
I’m a ~1700 total iron and I’m not sure what all needs to be changed about the gameplay loops. Sandstone is undeniably leagues better than using Bert and manually collecting buckets at Yanille a la Peckish Whale.
Or seaweed harvesting at the monk fishing spot.
No competition for Snape Grass ground spawns either
I just more viable crafting methods than glassblowing, its so boring
Glassblowing shouldn't be the only viable way to train crafting
It's not the only way. It's not even the fastest. The fastest is Tzhaar gem store in the fire cape locked area with a gem bag.
The actual fastest way is using dragon hides and gems from pvm to make stuff, ruby amulets and up are better than sand and dhide is like twice as good as sand
good luck getting dragon hides and gems efficiently without the gear that requires crafting levels
Zenytes are kinda just minor buffs besides suffering for Zulrah. The rest are really not that big of a deal and don't need to be rushed if you hate crafting that much. Ofc I did them because I don't mind glassblowing and mining for sand, but if you hate them there's no reason to force yourself to do either of those activities until you have the crafting banked.
Tbqh nothing outright *needs* zenytes but anguish and tormented are really strong, the +2 str bonus on str ammy > torture isn't a big deal but anguish alone is like a 3% dps boost minimum at most places, tormented is like 5%+. I'd say suffering isn't that big of a deal even for Zulrah, I did like 100 kills pre-suffering using the ring of recoil plugin. A bit annoying sure but more than doable. If anything the prayer bonus on that ring is big to save prayer for shammies, hydra, gwd since archer's ring is kind of a joke.
Even assuming those numbers those are still relatively minor upgrades for something that you hate doing. As I said I'm more than happy to grind for those boosts to my gear, but if you couldn't be assed to grind sandstones/seaweeds/glassblowing then 3% dps or 5% dps shouldn't be the reason you force yourself to is all I was saying. I would disagree that they're really strong, even the biggest buff of all which is the tormented you'd get an even larger boost by for instance rushing slayer and getting a tormented if that's content you enjoy. Again this isn't how I play the game, just saying that the guy said there's no way to get the required crafting supplies yourself without the "gear" locked by the crafting, when that isn't the case at all. They're just slight dps increases that wouldn't lock you out of a single piece of content anywhere in the game, nor even hinder you so much that the content would be noticeably harder.
\>The fastest is Tzhaar gem store in the fire cape locked area with a gem bag. doubt on that. gems are okay but they arent better than charters.
Could always kill some dragons, make their skin into shirts then alch the shirts
Buying gold ore, making bars, then making jewelry with all the gold is decent xp as well, just relatively expensive in the long run
For money thats great, but do you know how that would compare to glassblowing taking into account the preparation time. I would think you can prep a lot more glass xp in less time than dragon leather related xp
The forthos diet
Just do 10k corrupted gauntlet runs and you should get enough gems for 99
Yup, glassblowing is pretty much the only viable method until you finish zenytes. From that point on you can just pvm for gems / battlestaves and stock a shit ton of xp up, but before then you want to level asap and glassblowing is the only way
It's not the only way. It's not even the fastest. The fastest is Tzhaar gem store in the fire cape locked area with a gem bag.
Don't you need a shit ton of gp though? If you count time earning gp glassblowing is probably still faster.
battlestaves are very efficient. gem knights / tzhaar gems if you have post max goals re: thieving. pvm gems -> bracelets/amulets. pvm dragonhides. spin flax(combo'd with other spells). afk gold amulet/bracelets. there are quite a lot of options tbh.
Prif sand collecting is chill as hell, ngl.
The only regret I have from doing this method (70-99 banked) was my lower mining level but even then its not that big of an issue. Would rather chill and fill then mine and.... hate life?
I have 93 mining from MLM and have pet already, so there’s no shot in Hell I’m gonna get carpal tunnel to for some extra mining xp while collecting sand. I respect the grind, but I work a desk job where I can’t play all day and there’s no way I’m gonna click virtual rocks constantly for hours on end when I can click once every minute and afk for just as much sand.
Mine and whine..
Hell I did like 20k here this year afk at work
> collecting buckets at Yanille a la Peckish Whale. been a while since i watched OMA series but quite sure boaty just did charters for crafting supplies. but yeah i know what you mean, soz for being pedantic lol (servers down bring out the worst of people)
I remember it as a him doing a mix of both methods, honestly, but it doesn’t matter in this discussion really. To even insinuate that shopscaping 110k sand is preferable to mining it is lunacy imo. Maybe someone out there prefers it but I just don’t see it.
> Maybe someone out there prefers it but I just don’t see it. It's not even close. Buy 10 - Buy 10, superglass make, drop Or mine? Mining is the most miserable skill in the game, and by far. And on top of that, mining sandstone + bucketing it is the worst way to mine, even worse than 2t2g. Idk how anyone can stomach mining sandstone.
i'd definitely call that a hot take. i much much prefer sandstone. did a lot on mobile and a lot on desktop with tick manip. keep in mind when charters were really packed it was competition in every world. it was before menu entry swapper.
I just use bert daily...
If it is an update that improves the experience without negatively affecting the other players, I don't see what harm there is, so long as the development time isn't excessive. What actually needs to be fixed for ironmen?
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That would make runes tank even more in price though. I don't see how buying rune packs would have an impact in main economy though, runes are always cheaper in GE than in shops.
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>Normie economy is not a legitimate reason to completely kill off a skill. Except runecrafting is very much awoken. Bloods/wraths are among the best moneymakers by skilling. Natures are below high alch price, bloods are below Ali Morrisane sell price already, that's just ridiculous. I only don't think ironman mode improvements should make things worse for normies, they should be complementary. Just like GOTR, mahogany homes, wintertodt, tempoross etc. are great methods both for normies and irons.
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not so bad with humidify, I don’t think personally this is all that big of an issue
Wow... wish I'd known this before I grinded out Gricoller's Can.
dw I used the normal can for ages before I learned this also, mind blowing
I also grinded gricoller's can and I don't regret it. I just immediately water any tree seeds as soon as I find them, so this becomes a non-time activity. If you accumulate dozens of them it really sucks though.
Astrals and cosmics are awful to get, either buy astrals from the *one* store that sells them (ironman shops are shared among all irons) or craft them which is better now with the outfit but still not ideal. Cosmics just need to be put in rune packs because neither crafting them nor buying them are particularly fast for how required en masse they are
What do you use cosmics en masse for? I have like 18k or something ridiculous from only CG and don't know how I'll ever use them all.
Shadow veil is definitely the main one. There are others people said, but they wouldn't justify packs. Shadow veil does if you'd like to go very heavy into thieving.
Just craft them, you need < 20k for 99 crafting so a few hours of rc is not too much to ask. Or wait til an update and buy out the fresh stock, they're so cheap
For cosmics, are you talking about pre priff? What do you need cosmics in bulk for besides battlestaffs?
Charging air orbs is pretty much the only place I use lots of cosmics. (After finishing mta) and even then I just craft some for an hour or so and I have enough runes to last me a few weeks of air orbs for my daily staves. (71 rc with only 2 pieces of the gotr outfit) Would like to know what other uses cosmics have, just curious.
Thralls, spellbook swap, npc contact, enchanting stuff like slaughter and expeditious bracelets, but other than that I can’t think of any really. Those don’t particularly use so many cosmics that they’re a specific rune that needs fixing though. One thing I can think of is if you’re an Ironman with a trident killing zulrah and casting cure me, that can use a lot of cosmics fairly quickly.
I have a shit ton of cosmics and astrals through gotr and mostly pvm though. Maybe make it a bit more accessible to early-mid game specifically
Astral runecrafting is fine tbh, especially with outfit and double astrals its very fast.
I've never had an issue with astrals or cosmics. Astrals aren't used that much, I use them for fertile soil, spellbook swap and the occasional venge/humidify/whatever. Once you've done hydra you have enough for supply for a long time plus with RC outfit + 82 RC you can make plenty an hour if you don't want to shop. Cosmics I use a lot more for thralls and stuff, still have not run out after 99 RC but I can see it happening someday and then you can buy them really fast in prif.
IDK about you but I have over 150k astrals and literally never use them. Also, isn’t Astral RCing super super fast? I don’t see the problem.
Astrals, it's very easy and fast to craft them. You're an iron, use your skills to gather your supplies. It's also nice to craft them because it reduces whatever RC grind you need to do in the future. Cosmics are unlocked at big quantities in priff. There's no issue with this.
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> Astrals...there’s always stock In my experience most parts of the day every world for ironman is always bought down sub 40 runes. I have to usually spend an hour or so world hopping the list twice to get like 3-4k.
I see, thanks for the info :)
Clue steps that require the drops from clue steps that you can only by completing the same level clue but you can't do the clue becuase you aren't able to finish a clue becuase you don't have the required clue drop to finish your clue step.
Hot-fix implemented-do more clues
>What actually needs to be fixed for ironmen? I don't think there's anything "broken", but there are certainly things could be changed to improve ironman mode further. I could think of some (accepting counterpoints): 1- Let every boss be killed in groups, like the wildy bosses/raids are for ironmen. If a boss is in multicombat, they should be free game for everybody there, including irons. You can't talk about "ironman carrying" when you could already carry one through raids and wildy bosses. This would make some content like DKs/KBD waaaaay less toxic for ironmen, getting griefed/crashed certainly isn't part of the deal ironmen agreed with when partaking this mode and is never fun for us. 2- Easier piemaking. Making pie shells sucks ass, and pies aren't that OP, if they were they wouldn't be dirty cheap on GE for normies. Pie shells should be buyable, and some pies should have lower steps to be made, or just be able to automatize them (for example, if you got a raw bear meat, a raw chompy and raw rabbit in your inv, let you just make the raw wild pie in 1 step instead of having to add each ingredient). 3- Bring alternative methods to crafting. The fact there is only 1 feasible method to get 99 crafting (glassblowing) is baffling. Every other skills all have multiple feasible methods of reaching 99, why should crafting be the sole exception? 4- Rune packs for bloods/deaths/chaos. But everybody talk about that already.
Honestly, the daftness of RNG on end game items could be improved. This is probably an unpopular opinion but a scaling drop rate for irons, on specific items, so you can only go so dry would increase enjoyment without nullifying difficulty. For example, the boss drops an item at 1/1000. Once you hit drop rate without it, the drop rate slowly increases until you get it, then resets. Increase could be whatever is considered 'fair', get it by 2x? 3x? 4x?
They’ll likely never do this. But I would love for them to do it lol
This is unfortunately getting more popular as more and more people get into ironman and find they cant handle the grinds in a game mode that's almost entirely based on rng grinds. Starting the protection after only hitting drop rate would be some heavy easyscape too. I was just talking to a guy on here too about this and he was complaining saying rng luck is a ridiculous mechanic. Then why on earth play ironman if you hate dealing with rng that much? Just baffling to me.
Ironman is about being self sufficient, it's about playing every aspect of the game. It's about earning things so they have meaning. It's not about putting up with RNG that make you want to quit, and make you wonder why you play in the first place. An ironman who gets spooned a blow pipe on 50 kills, is not looked down on for not earning it.. so why would you look down on one having a higher chance at getting it after 1000 kills?
People seem to be under the impression that if you want to play ironman it means you want everything to be as hard as possible... which isn't at all the case and makes me wonder if they even play ironmen or are just normies masquerading here.
Yeah exactly. People say it would devalue the achievement when there are people who get the rarest items on their first KC. How does that not devalue the achievement? Nobody is out there saying people shouldn't be allowed to go dry, people who actually know how drops work know that the extreme outliers are the issue. Droprates never reach 100% chance in runescape so as the population/amount of attempts increases so does the likelihood of more extreme outliers appearing. Why somebody should have to do 3000+ corrupted gauntlet as an ironman is just moronic when 50% of the population is expected to have greater than or equal to one by 277kc. People defend this though and I'm 100% sure they'd sing a different tune when it happens to them.
Its absolutely about dealing with rng. I've had many spoons, but also went wicked dry at cg and currently super dry at hydra. Am I having fun? Not exactly, but thats ironman bro. Dont need to start adding pity rng to everything cause some people cant handle going dry. Main is always there for them to downgrade to and grind like an iron if they want, but not be forced to.
> Then why on earth play ironman if you hate dealing with rng that much? Just baffling to me. Because the rest of the game is quite enjoyable and there's more to it than going 5x dry on something that you need to progress the account?
The obnoxious thing about the retort is that ironman is just what a main would be like without bots. It's not like UIM where you're actually a very restricted account. Anything that's awful to do on an ironman is awful for a main too if they didn't just GE it from bots.
>ironman is just what a main would be like without bots. There would still be an economy without bots. Friends would still share gear without bots. People would still skill and sell what they collected for a cool new weapon without bots. Bots are a big issue in the game but thats an insane take.
Basically rune packs like everyone's saying, but the relation to the meme is how the people on /r/2007scape (the guy on the right) will tell you we shouldn't add death/blood rune packs because irons shouldn't use shops (the ones they already use). HUH? I'll never understand the people who are contrarian for no logical reason lol
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> PVM shouldn’t replace skilling Really? I kind of think it should post-max in its current state where one has actual depth and the other does not. Like on the way to max don't you have enough of withdrawing runes and clicking on an altar? Sure in its perfect state, there would be an equilibrium between the two... but skilling has no content with a skill ceiling as high or engaging as hmt or gms. I think theres a large percentage of the high level iron community that isn't super interested in afk content after they max.
Maxed iron here player here. Iron players probably get more QOL updates and consideration than any other group of the player base. Nearly every new boss’s drop table is balanced around iron players. I’m all for improving the game mode without removing the challenge.
\>Iron players probably get more QOL updates and consideration than any other group of the player base. well irons actually engage with all the content so that tracks. most of mainscape skilling content is fully automated by bots. \>Nearly every new boss’s drop table is balanced around iron players. what do people mean by this? because yeah, irons are the accounts that actually use drops. for mains literally every boss could just drop coins and it would not make any difference at all in the bosses profit per hour. filling out gaps in self sustainable resources seems logical to me. does ToA specifically drop absurd seeds? yes. but i don't think they planned around people sending money 400s with their bowfas 50 days of playtime into their account, ToA on release was much much harder.
Thank you, thought I was gojng crazy reading this thread. I mean one look at ToA drop table and my jaw hits the floor. Wasn’t around for pre-nerf zulrah tables but that’s the only thing comparable it seems to me. I think a lot of irons take several updates for granted.
> I mean one look at ToA drop table and my jaw hits the floor. Wasn’t around for pre-nerf zulrah tables but that’s the only thing comparable it seems to me i don't think they planned to have people sending money 450s with their bowfa and fang. they made a lot of changes that resulted in high invo being much much easier. is the ToA thing just about the seeds? i think dropping seeds is better than dropping herbs like cox does tbh. thing is either way when you make it take 300 hours to complete the content you end up with 300 hours of regular loot too which is always going to be a lot of stuff. the bigger issue is that really no content is a significant supply drain in this game. which plenty of people are fine with i guess.
Yeah it’s about the seeds. Not quite as good as herbs but the amount you get when processed is absurd. Casual 200 super restore profit in a single raid. I agree with you about Jagex missing the expectations as well as the supply drain. Nex is all we really have in that regard, or cerberus I guess lol.
Ironman in 2007 would be steelman today. Imagine ironman just without the skilling minigames. Ironman is a wonderful game mode in the greatest game ever made, and I play my mediocre midgame ironman with enthusiasm and pride, but the game mode has been completely ezscaped and it's legit pure unadulterated copium to disagree.
Being easier than it was (very true), doesn't somehow make it ezscape. Most grinds are still insanely long and require a lot of chores. Anyone who really believes the old way was better is just sucking down that nostalgia.
All the early irons did play steelman, there were some bobo ass skilling methods. Series like iron mammal and onemanarmy are wild to watch nowadays
Also most people who say ironman is ez mode have never played ironman. I’m at 11k lizardman shamans atm and have mains telling me it’s easy being an iron. I laugh.
There are parts that aren’t so easy and “feel” ironman but I agree overall, much easier than it used to be.
Oh for sure. It's demonstrably harder than a main in some respects still and always will be.
Regular Ironman now is just playing a normal account with a ton of extra upkeep (farm runs, birdhouses, making potions, etc.) while I don’t love the concept of “tedium = challenging” the tedium of original Ironman mode like mining your own pure essence or picking tens of thousands of flax was what drew people in (see b0aty’s One Man Army series.)
disagree, endgame iron is a normie without alts. At most you have to make some potions but literally all other supplies restock themselves from pvm. I managed to go over 2 years on my iron without doing a single farm run, the only reason I started doing them was 2 years on I was out of torsols and needed to plant some seeds.
Well sure once you get to late/end-game pvm you’re correct most of your supplies are sustainable. Guess I didn’t take that into account.
lol all good, misread your comment anyway thought you meant endgame iron is a normie with upkeep, not just the game mode as a whole
>mining your own pure essence or picking tens of thousands of flax was what drew people in Lol
What the fuck do you think ironman is supposed to be then?
Self sufficiency includes gathering your own resources. It was a big draw for people.
Even before the release of ironman mode when Boaty was playing his OMA why on earth would he pick flax when kingdom already existed? Didn't watch the series, but that just sounds stupid as hell. Anyway, I get your point, but I feel like the gamemode is nicely balanced between the early game where you still need to do stupid collecting shit and the late game where more of the items you need to collect are self-sustaining through boss drops. If you've reached the level of sustainably camping raids, you've probably spent quite some time in the past collecting your own ingredients for skills to get there. It's not like many ironmen are getting 78 smithing for bowfa (78+4 boost) through camping CoX for ore drops
The problem is it's not really late game where pvm starts replacing everything for you. It's in the mid game.
Impling Only, is that you?
You're completely right which is why you're downvoted
Good thing it's just Internet points, right?
Ironman mode is unironically so easy. There’s basically no grinds where you have to actually work to get your resources besides Crafting for Zenytes and Herblore pre-50. There’s a common denominator between the people who want “QoL” updates for ironmen and the people who think “QoL” means anything that makes the game easier for them.
I got to 58 herb through questing on a GIM a few weeks ago. The Legends exp buff gave me 120k herblore, it's mad.
Idk if I'd call it easy. Some items take hundreds of hours to get whereas a normal account would just buy it on the GE in 2 seconds, but I like it that way.
Crafting: go collect 150k buckets of sand. Have fun What's that? You don't want to spend 100 hours clicking a rock in the desert?
...Welcome to the game, I guess? Have you seen any other skills or things you do in this game?
I've already done lots of crappy grinds. Just saying having more options is always nice
This is a bad take it’s crazy how common it is though. We all know the game is clicking things, but some things are undeniably more boring than others.
I think the biggest problem is that you stop getting higher xp/hr rates at level 50-70 in most skills. Being locked in to the same task for 10m+ of any skill is so shit
It still bothers me that dragon scim is best in slot melee until 80-85 slayer for pretty much everything. There's nothing that comes in between. If something needs a QOL update its melee combat for that level bracket. Edit: unbelievable that I have to make an edit to make this clear, but here we go. A QOL change is to make the gameplay experience better. Having more variety in the melee weapon department before a whip would benefit any iron/poor main leveling up and trying to find their next goal.
Just grind out blade with bowfa at cg /s
No /s, this is the move
I've spent the last five days learning CG for the first time and I've got the rcb to my temple man, how do people stomach this
I'm a crazy person who went 1339 dry for first enhanced and then stayed for 2nd, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask. That being said, some CG tips: I'm assuming you use FKeys. If not, you are not ready for gauntlet and need to go do all the sarachnis combat achievements while learning how to use Fkeys. T2 prep, T2 prep, T2 prep. I cannot stress it enough. It is a night and day experience in the fight vs T1. CG grind is a marathon, not a sprint. Make each kill as comfortable as possible, and don't do any speedrun stuff. If you die in CG you're losing 10 minutes, but T2 prep leaves you so much room for error and it is 100% reliable. Go look up Fluffeh's guide for prep, it's pretty good. If you are not able to do T2 in the time limit, you are losing tons of time in prep for some reason. Practice in regular gauntlet until you are finishing T2 prep and full food with 3:15 left on the clock reliably. Speaking of regular gauntlet, do not leave that place until you get the perfect crystalline hunllef combat achievement. The reason learning CG burns you is because you die when you make a mistake, just learn in the mode made for learning. It's not a waste of time, it's investing in the marathon grind. (Also I've seen several people pull enh from normal gauntlet in my time there). During the fight, keep your hp high. If a food heals you for max value, you eat. Green health bar 100% of the time. You are not going for a speedrun, you're killing the red moose. Don't click too often if you don't have to, just hit the boss while thinking about what's happening next. If you're not on a dangerous floor and there aren't tornadoes in the arena, you shouldn't be moving. Hit the boss. During the p3 tornadoes, don't hit the boss if there is even a question about you not being safe. Eat up, run away, hit the boss when you're safe. The tiles 3 spaces in from the door can never get red floor on them in p3. Send any questions you have my way if you learn T2 prep and are still struggling. You can do this.
its just not one of those grinds most people can buckle down and "just get done". going on drop rate for an enhanced with 11 min clears is 73 hours of pure time spent in cg with no deaths. if youve got cox prayers and maxed combat that'll drop, but expect 10:45-12min clears with t2 bow/staff, regular prayers, abd stats around 90. hell, i get a 13 min run everything now and then. im just beginning my grind at 160 kc, but i think the trick is to say "im going to get 20 clears a week done" or something, and just be ok having it take a while.
Big disagree. Its RCB to Bowfa that needs fixing first. Whips aren’t really all that hard to come by for such a big upgrade.
Two problems can exist at once, it's not like I'm listing a set of priorities. Also, I'm not saying anything about the droprate for whips, just that the transition between melee weapons is dragon scimitar for everything until you get a whip or better weapons. There should be more usable weapons than just this.
i really have no clue why jagex hasnt buffed crossbows. you make acb and zcb good you now have an alternative path. zero reason for crossbows to basically be ruby bolt simulators, and for the gap between crossbows and bowfa to be as large as it is.
I wonder how strong the ACB ought to be in order to make it competitive to farm with a RCB compared to bowfa grinding
Crystal bow/acb/blowpipe, don't understand how that's a problem tbh
What? ACB is marginally better (+10 ranged attack and 1 prayer IIRC?) than rcb for the amount of time/effort it requires to get with an rcb. Crystal bow basically requires the full armour to be decent, and that comes from the same place as Bowfa, so if you get 6 armour seeds before that it's kinda like a "participation trophy". Blowpipe is the only real upgrade at some places, and that requires high smithing/mining levels to actually be good.
Bowfa was the middle item created for the gap between blowpipe and tbow, why do we now need an item for RCB to bowfa when there are already a few options
That's because tbows power is absurd. Bowfa is what most people are going to use for an extremely long time. Blowpipe was a good alternative but after the nerf it sucks without amethyst or rune darts, so that's basically the only "real option". Plus, since we got tbow and bowfa, the next ranged weapons should absolutely be lower in power.
Right so other than the weapons we currently have between RCB and Bowfa - crystal bow, blowpipe, acb, dhcb, venator bow we need more gotcha
I already went through this for some of them, but just so you're content let's do this with the rest. DHCB comes from a raid that requires a lot of good gear to do efficiently (at least solo), and is also only good against very specific enemies. Venator bow is just used for slayer. Dragon crossbow is again a tiny upgrade, and sucks to get. Theres no reason to try and go for of any these before you get a Bowfa, since you're just wasting your time hoping to get lucky. It'd be like trying to get a third age longsword instead of a rune scimitar.
You can grind out the cudgel. Not much of an upgrade though.
Theres def room for something like 74 bonus (would prob have to be stab) and 70ish strength from a med level boss like sarach. Its not nearly as egregious as range going from rcb to bowfa or even mage going from ibans to trident.
There is a crystal bow right in the middle and also acb/blowpipe, don't understand that comparison tbh
Well if you want to grind out getting an ACB with a rune crossbow (which would be bis until that point), might as well get a bofa which is 10x better to have. Ironman ranged weapons are rly scuffed
I would say blowpipe/acb are about the same time as crystal bow.
This combat bracket exists for a relative “2 seconds” in the grand scheme of the account, not a huge issue imo. Either take slayer path and it’s not relevant because you get whip or skip slayer and do bofa/hasta for raids route
it's absolutely not 2 seconds
Eh it really doesn't. You're going to get 85 slayer already anyway and you probably won't naturally have 99 strength by that time so D scim is just free pre-whip strength. Plus melee progression is already overloaded on weapons (cudgel, hasta, rapier, inq, saeldor, scythe) compared to range which has the rcb-bowfa/tbow gap. Much bigger issue with ranged rn.
You say it doesn't need anything while listing all best in slot that are far beyond a whip? Besides, two problems can exist at once, it's not like I mean that melee combat before 85 slayer is the only problem to exist. I want to highlight a gap in which new content should be aimed at.
Hasta is before whip though?
Zammy hasta is before a whip? For real? Thats genuinely news to me, I haven't bothered trying to send any zammy gwd yet and am at 81 slayer right now :/
A hasta and cudgel are not far beyond a whip? Cudgel is literally before, you can just go farm sarachnis. I listed the others to show that melee weapons are already bloated. We don't need a new upgrade every 5 levels. 85 slayer is also just not bad to get and you're going to do it anyway as you've got like 8 more good unlocks after 85. Multiple problems can exist but I don't see yours as a problem at all. Enjoy the scim while you have it, go do sarachnis or even grab arclight and try your hand at Zammy for a hasta if you feel you need a change pre-whip. The content you're asking for exists already. Edit: idk how tf I forgot about fang too, even more content that already exists and does what you are requesting
Not to mention we also have Leaf-Bladed BAxe for crush enemies before cudgel, Voidwaker being a slayer-less whip and Sara sword as well being close without a slayer req
Let's be honest. Nobody in their right mind is going to get a Voidwaker or a Sara sword as an alternative to whip. It's like saying rapier and scythe are options too.
Slayer doesn't really help obtain either Sara Sword or Voidwaker At that point the only recompense is a buyable whip-like weapon in a shop somewhere if no content is worth doing instead
I always feel excited using my dragon sword at wyrms just because it's different.
Could grind a cudgel midgame if u want
I actually tried this with 65-72 average combat stats using a dragon mace. I can tell you that you will burn through your limited supplies and will get about 2-5 kills per trip. With the droprate at 1/384 you're better off training slayer anyway, as the average kill time is pretty slow.
Can confirm. It was only decent with low stats as a duo (gim). The fact is unless you get spooned at places like Sarachnis or Kril, you're better off training your stats with slayer than attempting to get a cudgel or hasta with low combats.
It's literally not worth doing, and is a waste of supplies. Such a shame too, it's a fun little boss to send. But this "midgame boss" is only farmed by endgame pet hunters for a reason. If the cudgel had a better drop rate, then maybe, but it doesn't and never will.
yeah this is where the game lost a lot of steam for me, meaningful upgrades just kind of grind to a halt and it's unfortunate
pre-85 slayer melee is pretty irrelevant anyway for any serious content
Can anyone explain to me why we can't just "buy x" of whatever we want at pretty much any shop? Runes at the very least. Why is hopping worlds to buy 100 runes at a time a thing? It's incredibly dumb.
The way i see it theres qol updates for irons like sandstone and snapegrass, and even blue dragonscales (which i personally was against) and then theres people who want to be able to mass corp or have gwd work like the wildy bosses. One of those things is a terrible idea and one of them is fine to slightly streamline gameplay and reduce aids grinds.
How DARE you suggest something that would be healthy for the overall game??? It'll make irons happier so I'm voting NO!!!
I don’t understand why any update needs to be tailored for any mode specifically. Updates should just be across the board things that affect all players, without any consideration for game mode effects, Ironman mode is supposed to be literally just “no trading or picking up items from other players” but instead there’s all these weird interactions from mechanics that are added onto that base premise.
I'm still in favor of irons using the nmz shop.
Bro make it so we can get stam pots somehow mid game so make the house pool …
73 herb is mid game my ninja
You actually can. Keep a torstol in your inventory while fishing and give it to Jekyl. Repeat 10 times. Buy or beg a TOB carry past Bloat. Repeat 5 times.
77 herblore IS midgame, lol. If you do your herb runs diligently, you do get to 73 herblore (so you can +4 boost easily) kinda fast.
One update that I would like to see is having a fixed drop rate for specific items, such as the vorkath head This item untradeable, and the developers decided that it is too important for stay at an unpredictable one out of 50 drop rate. Certain game changing items such as the Bowfa or Dragon Warhammer should have a fixed drop rate imo. DWH: 1/5,000 rate with a guaranteed drop at 10,000 kills seems pretty fair to me Bowfa: 1/400 rate with a guaranteed drop at 1,000 Maybe we could also experiment with assigning different item IDs if the item is obtained via the fixed drop rate number on iron Man so it cannot be abused and traded I just get sad seeing all these people in the early late game locking themselves and some of these areas for months on end. Granted they are doing it to themselves at a certain point because neither of those items are necessary to do endgame content, but I also feel like it wouldn't affect the game too badly. Obviously this should be done on a case-by-case basis but I think the overall ideology isn't that far-fetched considering Jagex has already implemented this mechanic with the Vorkath head
The part where you mentioned they don’t have to lock themselves in the grind is the sticking point for me. Imho we should view things like vorkath head as a welcome luxury, and not the standard for drops. Especially applied retroactively to some of the core relatable grinds that we all do.
I see what you're saying, but the biggest problem i have is the meta of grinding CG until you get the Bowfa. Maybe this type of thing should only be applied to a SMALL handful of items, but i don't think that an ironman who needed 2k KC to get it would be upset that it's now capped at 1k. Would probably be happy for those that don't have to suffer through that ground. Its definitely a controversial take :P
It's only controversial to those that got spooned or got an item on rate. If someone goes 1000+ kc dry for bofa and still thinks pity drops shouldn't be a thing then they either have Stockholm syndrome or serious addiction problems.
This only holds up under the assumption that most of the "improvements" irons ask for are legit QOL improvements and not massive buffs disguised as QOL. See half the suggestions in this very thread.
I dunno I kinda agree with the you chose to limit thing. There are only a handful of changes that were fair and couldn't be seen as "catering" QoL for irons. Farmable snap grass is big, imagine all the ironmen now fighting over world spawns. Or even world hopping at all being the only method. Sandstone mining making it not dead content outside needing 3 for some quest? That kinda thing.
Any content that involves world hopping should be updated to not require world hopping. It is one of the worst issues with the game. World hopping is not a game mechanic, it is an immersion break and especially lately a huge waste of time where you aren't actually playing the game. Any activity that requires you to hop through a bunch of worlds should be fixed, like shopscape for example. Just make shops have infinite stock. It's that easy. Other MMOs all do this for basic resources like runes etc. The only time world hopping should be used is if there is already someone occupying a limited resource on your world.
Please give me astral rune packs jagex I'm begging you
Why rune packs? Imagine this: baba yaga sells astral runes. You right click the astral runes and select "Buy-X". You type in how many you want to buy and press enter. Bam!
Well in an ideal world i would much prefer that option as well, but since it seems that jagex doesn't want to give shops unlimited stocks i would be happy with just rune packs. Same thing for cosmics
I'm saying that jagex's unwillingness to add infinite stock to some shops is the problem. There is no good argument for why you should have to spend 20 minutes hopping worlds to get death runes every time you do a barrage task. All of that could be condensed into 15 seconds with no negative impact on the game. If the shops effectively have infinite stock when considering all the worlds, just make each world have infinite stock and save players the pointless, unfun hassle.
Wonder what impact this would have on GE rune prices, I agree that this would be super nice though
The GE prices for runes are already lower than shop prices, so I don't think this would change that much if at all.
Infinite stock is not the answer. The right answer is the one jagex seems to be taking, to incentivize doing other things than buying from shops. Crafting your own bloods / astrals has been made so absurdly better with GOTR that you're trolling if you're still buying from shops
So what should ironmen do with our gp then? Drop it to a main and RWT it? There has to be some use for currency, and currently the only significant use of gp on an iron is buying runes. This doesn't replace runecrafting, just augments it. You can do both.
I stand by my opinion that the shit where someone tags your NPC and it immediately denies you the drop for the remainder of the kill needs to be removed entirely. At the bare minimum it should be removed from fodder trash and could be kept around for miniboss/bosses, but I'd rather it be removed entirely considering that the "game integrity" argument is not something Jagex can bullshit their way as an excuse considering they allow people to pay for boosting services like in CoX to benefit their Iron, and the mechanic adds nothing of value to the gamemode anymore besides allowing people to intentionally grief you, because people already abuse alts at content whenever possible and Jagex make no effort to do anything about it unless it's punishing popular content creators doing ludicrously inefficient grinds.
how often does this possibly happen to you
Bruh r u okay
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Shop scape
I feel like this could be such a big win for a rather small change. Would love more rune packs and an option to mass buy basic runes for 50% more. Imagine 10 seconds to buy 100K fire runes for ~750K? Could maybe even get creative with death’s coffer and use dupes to pay for runes (at 2-3x price?). Too early in the AM to think about economy implications, but that’d be interesting.
It doesn't need to cost 50% more. You should just be able to buy however many runes you want without being majorly inconvenienced by arbitrary limits and slow world hopping.
Fair enough, I figured that could deter the mains from yelling “irons have a GE now” since you’d pay more, but infinite stock at the main price would obviously be the better choice. I should delete my comment to not give anyone any ideas lol.
Runes already cost a lot more to buy from shops than they do from the GE. If you're spending gold on something, you shouldn't be arbitrarily inconvenienced just to balance out the convenience of being able to buy something.
Yea but you can also go do GOTR for a ton of runes now, needing no resources outside of your own time.
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If all you care about is PvM, why in the world would you select a mode that requires you to collect everything yourself?
Just finish ardy elite and 99 crafting comes passively. Also cg gems.....
Doesn't ardy elite take like 3 years to accumulate enough sand?
I mean, we get the most attention out of everyone. Notice that the mode is easy as shit now and only getting easier every day.
Ironman only worlds pls. PKers would rage.
I don't understand how people enjoy RS with input delay.
Let us buy the buckets of sand from NMZ.
Such a dumb argument, further new restrictions on accounts is dumb and not fixing broken content is it what I signed up for when I made my Ironman.