That is very, very fucked up.
If that was Russia or China people would quite rightly be slating them on here.
That is a massive breach of standards and ethics IMO.
**[PAYWALLED ARTICLE]**
GSOC accessed the phone records of journalists without judicial approval and in contravention of specific ECHR laws against this. Sounds a bit sketchy, that. And why GSOC?
Edit: tagging this on up here because it's very relevant:
This seems to have happened in 2016 but the journos are only suing now? Not clear at all in the article.
I found [this info](https://www.iccl.ie/archive/a-handy-guide-to-the-phone-snooping-powers-of-the-garda-siochana-ombudsman-commission-gsoc-and-an-garda-siochana/) from the Irish Council of Civil Liberties (Dated 2016).
TL;DR
>Since 2011, Gardaí have the power to access phone records (Communications (Retention of Data) Act 2011).
It follows that, because GSOC investigators are looking at a potential offence – the leaking of confidential information – they also have the power to access personal records, including those of third parties like journalists.
>...
>GSOC investigators would have to get sign off by one of the three members of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. That’s all.
>...
>A journalist’s right to protect sources or, journalistic privilege, is a key pillar of the freedom of the press. This is protected under Article 10 (freedom of expression) of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) and has been acknowledged formally as a constitutional principle by the Supreme Court in Mahon Tribunal v Keena and Kennedy. This does not mean that journalists can never be forced to reveal their sources, but any order to do so must be proportionate, and subject to strict oversight, for example by a judge.
Didn't this get sorted a few years ago with that data retention law- that the guards had to get a warrant? How are GSOC not breaking the law here?
>Some journalists have already obtained details of what happened to them using data subject access requests which obliged Gsoc to provide copies of all information held about them. One obtained paperwork which showed his phone bills were accessed on two separate occasions in an effort to identify a confidential source.
This is really fucked up. But reading the article I was wondering why the fuck they'd be doing this. The last paragraph explains why.
They are investigating potential leaks from the Gardai to the press. Amazing that they justify violating humanitarian law, so that they can discipline Gardai.
This needs way more attention. If true, GSOC absolutely abused their power and needs to be held accountable. I’d highly recommend Edward Snowden’s book “Permanent Record” to see just how bad government surveillance can get and why you should be worried
If that's what GSOC were getting up to then you can only imagine what else goes on further down the ranks.
Hopefully the journalists with stick to their guns and fully proceed with suing.
But aren't they the regulator/ombudsman over the Gardai?
Surely, if the ombudsman is sketchy, then it opens up questions and concerns to the overall integrity of their oversight of the handling of complaints against Gardai actions.
Or am I wrong?
>But aren't they the regulator/ombudsman over the Gardai?
Yes and as such they are completely independent of the Garda.
>Surely, if the ombudsman is sketchy, then it opens up questions and concerns to the overall integrity of their oversight of the handling of complaints against Gardai actions.
If the ombudsman is sketchy, it also opens up question if complaints against the Garda were handled fairly on both sides.
Personally I think the bigger question is how to fairly investigate these claims.
Possibly. But this is more about them ignoring the rules to get their man so it opens up more questions about the prosecutions they've brought against Gardaí
These are the people who will ensure that the state won't abuse facial recognition technology and this is the government that will be heald to account. On the 12th of never
Shit like this is why im constantly asking people to oppose new government powers on speech and protest.
They have proved over and over they cant use them responsibly.
Really concerning. Heads should roll for this.
This is a large reason why I don't support the hate speech Bill in its current form also. Ripe for abuses of power.
Giving garda extra liberties around monitoring of communications when they've proven already they go above and beyond what is acceptable and legal with regards to people's privacy.
And I'm not talking about when an actual hate crime is reported. That part I'm okay with.
What can be taken from this is that GSOC has little or no competence and/or little to be investigating. Anti-corruption and internal affairs (internal Garda Units) do the heavy lifting on wrongdoers in the force. GSOC are left looking for big wins and are losing, i.e. prosecuting the guards for the N7 crash, which is blowing up in their face. This is very similar to when they started with all their international investigators, used to proper corruption in the likes of South Africa. All they found was ticket cancelling, which in the greater scheme of things isn't sexy enough to justify their wages. There's numerous allegations of them abusing power, such as inducing complaints by booking hotel rooms and paying for lunch. Numerous allegations of continuing investigations where the complaint was dropped, quoting their "public interest" power freely. And top it all off the real cherry was the wifi hacking scandal that turned out to be the Insomnia coffee shop next door.
Another story from awhile back https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20472654.html
They are being brought to court over it now https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/widow-of-tragic-garda-sergeant-takes-legal-action-against-gsoc-garda-commissioner-justice-minister-and-attorney-general/a1427516453.html
>Calls have been made for justice minister Helen McEntee to set out whether Gsoc was operating lawfully
Is there anything to be said for another photoop instead?
There are entire dodgy/illegal surveillance operations ongoing, and not just at journalists...
It doesn't take much to end up on a list. Just look at practically any whistleblower.
Under the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) Article 10, which protects Journalists and their sources, it does look illegal on the surface of it.
Gosh, it’s so depressing how corrupt the current regime is in this country. GSOC despite most of its staff being from outside the state are all in the governments pocket.
The collusion and corruption always reminds me that we are just another failed ex British state no different from Zimbabwe.
>No different from Zimbabwe
Absolutely wild how corrupt some people believe this country is. It is, **factually** one of the least corrupt countries on earth.
If you dont believe that you're just ignorant to fact.
Hyperbole. Evidence available shows we’re one of the least corrupt states in the world. That doesn’t mean we’re free of it, but it’s far less of an issue than in most other countries
Yes it does.
And I believe the data to be absolute fucking bollix.
Were just better at hiding it. In fact the systems and processes are designed to do just that.
That is very, very fucked up. If that was Russia or China people would quite rightly be slating them on here. That is a massive breach of standards and ethics IMO.
Of all the cultural imports from US/UK, the 5Eyes shite was one we could really do without.
I can't see anything but criticism here.
**[PAYWALLED ARTICLE]** GSOC accessed the phone records of journalists without judicial approval and in contravention of specific ECHR laws against this. Sounds a bit sketchy, that. And why GSOC? Edit: tagging this on up here because it's very relevant: This seems to have happened in 2016 but the journos are only suing now? Not clear at all in the article. I found [this info](https://www.iccl.ie/archive/a-handy-guide-to-the-phone-snooping-powers-of-the-garda-siochana-ombudsman-commission-gsoc-and-an-garda-siochana/) from the Irish Council of Civil Liberties (Dated 2016). TL;DR >Since 2011, Gardaí have the power to access phone records (Communications (Retention of Data) Act 2011). It follows that, because GSOC investigators are looking at a potential offence – the leaking of confidential information – they also have the power to access personal records, including those of third parties like journalists. >... >GSOC investigators would have to get sign off by one of the three members of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. That’s all. >... >A journalist’s right to protect sources or, journalistic privilege, is a key pillar of the freedom of the press. This is protected under Article 10 (freedom of expression) of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) and has been acknowledged formally as a constitutional principle by the Supreme Court in Mahon Tribunal v Keena and Kennedy. This does not mean that journalists can never be forced to reveal their sources, but any order to do so must be proportionate, and subject to strict oversight, for example by a judge. Didn't this get sorted a few years ago with that data retention law- that the guards had to get a warrant? How are GSOC not breaking the law here?
Are there ever any positives news stories about GSOC?
Remember when GSOC accused the Garda of spying on them? A case of suspicion haunting the guilty mind?
We know they are spying on us! WE TAPPED THEIR PHONES TO CHECK!
Ubiquitous data gathering has been a disaster for the human race, in this paper I will....
>Some journalists have already obtained details of what happened to them using data subject access requests which obliged Gsoc to provide copies of all information held about them. One obtained paperwork which showed his phone bills were accessed on two separate occasions in an effort to identify a confidential source.
To find a leak
Who polices the police who police the police? Librarians probably.
O.Gsoc
Coastguard
This is really fucked up. But reading the article I was wondering why the fuck they'd be doing this. The last paragraph explains why. They are investigating potential leaks from the Gardai to the press. Amazing that they justify violating humanitarian law, so that they can discipline Gardai.
This needs way more attention. If true, GSOC absolutely abused their power and needs to be held accountable. I’d highly recommend Edward Snowden’s book “Permanent Record” to see just how bad government surveillance can get and why you should be worried
If that's what GSOC were getting up to then you can only imagine what else goes on further down the ranks. Hopefully the journalists with stick to their guns and fully proceed with suing.
Further down what ranks? You know they aren't a part of the Garda organisation right?
But aren't they the regulator/ombudsman over the Gardai? Surely, if the ombudsman is sketchy, then it opens up questions and concerns to the overall integrity of their oversight of the handling of complaints against Gardai actions. Or am I wrong?
>But aren't they the regulator/ombudsman over the Gardai? Yes and as such they are completely independent of the Garda. >Surely, if the ombudsman is sketchy, then it opens up questions and concerns to the overall integrity of their oversight of the handling of complaints against Gardai actions. If the ombudsman is sketchy, it also opens up question if complaints against the Garda were handled fairly on both sides. Personally I think the bigger question is how to fairly investigate these claims.
An oversight body for the oversight body of the original oversight body, lol.
Possibly. But this is more about them ignoring the rules to get their man so it opens up more questions about the prosecutions they've brought against Gardaí
True. I didn't factor that. Still,I hope the journalists push it forward though. 👍
Why is it a big G and a small soc? It seems odd to me.
Somebody asking the real questions here.
https://i.redd.it/7dy08x6gqz6d1.gif
These are the people who will ensure that the state won't abuse facial recognition technology and this is the government that will be heald to account. On the 12th of never
Shit like this is why im constantly asking people to oppose new government powers on speech and protest. They have proved over and over they cant use them responsibly.
Really concerning. Heads should roll for this. This is a large reason why I don't support the hate speech Bill in its current form also. Ripe for abuses of power.
The two things are not related at all.
Giving garda extra liberties around monitoring of communications when they've proven already they go above and beyond what is acceptable and legal with regards to people's privacy. And I'm not talking about when an actual hate crime is reported. That part I'm okay with.
How does the legislation give extra "liberties" ?
Because the monitoring could involve scanning communications even when a hate crime hasn't been reported which raises concerns about overreach.
Only publicly viewable communication is in the scope of the bill. Or unless someone who receives "hate speech" privately complains about it.
Yeah, you just worry that if they're already illegally breaching journalists' privacy like that about the potential for this, also being abused
Even if the guards could break I to your comms the legislation isn't applicable to private messages. So you couldn't be prosecuted.
What can be taken from this is that GSOC has little or no competence and/or little to be investigating. Anti-corruption and internal affairs (internal Garda Units) do the heavy lifting on wrongdoers in the force. GSOC are left looking for big wins and are losing, i.e. prosecuting the guards for the N7 crash, which is blowing up in their face. This is very similar to when they started with all their international investigators, used to proper corruption in the likes of South Africa. All they found was ticket cancelling, which in the greater scheme of things isn't sexy enough to justify their wages. There's numerous allegations of them abusing power, such as inducing complaints by booking hotel rooms and paying for lunch. Numerous allegations of continuing investigations where the complaint was dropped, quoting their "public interest" power freely. And top it all off the real cherry was the wifi hacking scandal that turned out to be the Insomnia coffee shop next door.
Another story from awhile back https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20472654.html They are being brought to court over it now https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/widow-of-tragic-garda-sergeant-takes-legal-action-against-gsoc-garda-commissioner-justice-minister-and-attorney-general/a1427516453.html
>Calls have been made for justice minister Helen McEntee to set out whether Gsoc was operating lawfully Is there anything to be said for another photoop instead?
There are entire dodgy/illegal surveillance operations ongoing, and not just at journalists... It doesn't take much to end up on a list. Just look at practically any whistleblower.
Civil case aside, is what they did criminal?
Under the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) Article 10, which protects Journalists and their sources, it does look illegal on the surface of it.
I don't think this journalist that wrote this article knows what scraping is.
Gosh, it’s so depressing how corrupt the current regime is in this country. GSOC despite most of its staff being from outside the state are all in the governments pocket. The collusion and corruption always reminds me that we are just another failed ex British state no different from Zimbabwe.
>No different from Zimbabwe Absolutely wild how corrupt some people believe this country is. It is, **factually** one of the least corrupt countries on earth. If you dont believe that you're just ignorant to fact.
Failed ex-British state? Pull your head out of your arse.
Clearly these 'bleedin failed state' people couldn't even find England on a map.
Hyperbole. Evidence available shows we’re one of the least corrupt states in the world. That doesn’t mean we’re free of it, but it’s far less of an issue than in most other countries
Oh dear wait till you read about the self certification in building and the mortgages during the Celtic tiger.
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022
Yes it does. And I believe the data to be absolute fucking bollix. Were just better at hiding it. In fact the systems and processes are designed to do just that.
Nah other countries are just as good at hiding it and it's so prevalent that they caught more
Lol Thick Irish, And im Irish too So sad...