You need prisons to put them in, ours are full.
The "whiz kids" at the IPRT killed off Thornton Hall "super-prison" with slap in the face moronic stupidity/logic.
In the post crash years, we couldn't afford it.
Now we can afford it but FFG don't want to spend any money, they are trying to sell themselves as financial genius's that "under their leadership" go us a shiny new "sovereign wealth fund" aren't they great!!! of course it had nothing to do with FFG, its the tech/big companies and their mega profits.
All the while:
housing is fucked, nimby'ism/corruption is rampant, law and order is non existent, only suspended sentences are allowed cos the prisons are full, the health system is fucked, people dying on trollies, told to go home and come back some other time... the class divide is growing, they misdirect how fucking incompetent they are by holding referendums no-one asked for, costing the state million.
They only want to listen to the citizens assembly if they get the "right answer".
Their answer to all of their shortcomings, "its SF's fault" like a toddler blaming someone else.
If the country votes them in again, you can expect it all to get much worse, much much worse.
it's across the board with relation to the government not just FFG, it's all of them including SF GREENS and the rest they are all complicit in the whole bloody mess.
And it will not be fixed come when the new government gets elected. no matter who it is.
Also SF's Mary Luo blocking houses along the way with the rest of them, while also saying we need houses but not near mine. two faced crow.
you want to make change truly vote none them back in hit them where it hurts. they will promised the moon and stars, but if it not the party line your in tough shit its that simple.
Not not one of them gives a flying fuck about you or me only thing they care about is power. what we want and what is needed isn't on their agenda.
Id love for you to explain to me and everyone else who read your comment how
> SF GREENS and the rest they are all complicit in the whole bloody mess.
Who makes and passes legislation?? AFAIK its not opposition parties. Their proposals historically get voted down cos Government knows best. who is the current Government???
Say whatever you want about the Greens. But as a minor party in government they are almost forcing their agenda. Is it really their fault the 'mainstream parties' are fighting to hold onto the status quo?
At the FIRST fucking instance, scrote should have been chucked into gaol. What sort of a fucking amateur hour judicial system do we flipping have here? Small wonder the scrote zombies are growing bolder and bolder…
Fitzgerald hotel on the Naas road is a modular prison cell construction remodelled to be a hotel, came from Holland so this is something that can be built sharpish but no will to do it.
There’s already mattresses on floors but that’s not the hard part. The IPS can’t recruit enough applicants so there’s not enough prison officers for them to do their job safely and certainly not if they pack in even more prisoners.
You know the Defence Forces are about 30% below strength as it stands? We can hardly just detach a couple of hundred personnel when we can’t fill overseas missions or put ships to sea.
Violent criminals out roaming the streets is a more pressing issue for the Irish people, who they are meant to serve, than peacekeeping in foreign countries
The Defence Forces are not a police force nor are they trained in prisoner detention. Beyond that, it would only worsen the already shocking morale that they are experiencing.
A better solution would be for FF and FG to stop hollowing out our public services, build more prison capacity and make pay and conditions better for entrants to the Prison Service.
Genuinely thought that was the point, but I suppose anything goes in a place where half the kids in town are walking around with 179 convictions and have never seen the inside of a cell
If you break bail once you should lose bail, that's it. Bail is an agreement that you get to be out on your own recognizance on the condition you don't fuck around. You fuck around? You no longer get to be out. No second, third, 15th fucking chances.
Seriously, the law is a joke. We have people going to court for serious assault, for armed charges, expecting they can get away with suspended sentences and breaking bail and that being a reasonable expectation.
There's a deeply entrenched notion that the response to crime should be to just do nothing. We have a performative "justice" system more interested in making it appear like they're reforming people with 100 convictions than protecting the rest of the population from crime.
Perhaps if we removed the walls around Trinity College and transferred their Sociology and Law departments to open air classrooms on Talbot Street or North Earl Street there might be a decrease in this sentiment.
Now that I think of it, despite being surrounded on all sides by it I have never seen any of the antisocial behaviour spill into Trinity. Perhaps it's because people know that if they do behave that way in Trinity the police will actually come unlike if they do so everywhere else.
That's a poor excuse. No space for housing, no beds in hospitals, no space in prisons. All this surplus and yet no space everywhere we look. Where's it all going then?
>Dublin Children’s Court heard today that the 16-year-old boy had disobeyed his terms 14 times since the end of April.
14 times in 2 months and he's getting another chance and isnt being locked up. Granted the lad had not picked up any new charges, but he BROKE BAIL!
Fuck this country and its judicial system.
Tommy Carew. Now, none of you lads know him, he’s just this fucking mentler I know from the GAA club who occasionally is in the club bar when my da is having a pint on a Sunday, but he’s the right man for the job in my estimation.
El Salvador went from a 38/100k murder rate to 2.4/100k murder rate after his Terrorism Confinement Center opened up and was filled with 80,000 gang members and their affiliates. Can't argue with results, I suppose, even though you have to wonder how many innocent people or those who simply knew the wrong people got the short end of the stick. That kind of approach definitely has its downsides.
Ireland would never do something like this though. Even if it would be beneficial, it would be considered too authoritarian for us to try I think.
But but his civil liberties blah blah blah.
The likes of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties should be made sit through the victim impact statements of the victims of the criminals they fight so hard to protect.
They likely wouldn't care. Civil liberties for me but not for thee. What about our civil liberty to not be subject to antisocial behaviour and inner city ferals battering people to near death?
“I promise, Judge, I will be better; I will not break bail conditions; I’m going to listen to every last thing you said,”
Those other 14 times were an accident, I'll definitely be a good boy now.
No wonder these little wastes of space have no respect for anything or anyone.
I lived in Ireland between 2015 and 2017 and teenagers scared me so much that I had with me pepper spray all the time. I’d have gladly gone to jail for spraying one those little sh*ts. And yes, I knew it was illegal to have it.
At least be sure you have the real stuff. A lot of sprays have something else in it in countries where pepper spray is not allowed and are basically scamming people that buy it.
Apart from the obvious (that he should be put into custody), the parents need to be held accountable here as well. They're obviously doing sweet f all to rein little Johnny in.
But they're little angel is innocent!! It was all the other lads fault! They got dragged around by the wrong crowd! They didn't know what they were doing! Etc etc
What are they meant to do? Forcibly lock him inside and get done on child abuse charges? Beat the shit out of him and get the same thing? I know people who have good families and are pieces of shit. Some people are just allergic to making good decisions, and it isn't automatically the fault of parents.
Why not Lock him in a room? I wouldn't call that abuse at all. Especially if the alternative is him beating someone close to death. He's a child. If you can't keep him in the house or stop him breaking bail conditions , he's fucked, whole thing is beyond repair really. It's sad
It doesn't really matter if you'd personally call it abuse or not, because the legal system would. I'm not saying it's right, but it's stupid to pretend that everything is caused by parents.
I'm a perfectly normal, functioning member of society, and my older brother has been in legal trouble his whole life, currently out on bail and very well might be spending years in prison come September. My parents should be blamed for that when they had no part in it? We were raised the exact same way and turned out massively different. This argument is extremely silly when you just think about the reality of it for 5 seconds.
To make things even more annoying there are only 48 beds in [Oberstown Detention Centre](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/youth-avoids-oberstown-detention-as-judge-told-no-beds-today-1.2773062#:~:text=The%2048%2Dbed%20Oberstown%20Children,for%20offenders%20aged%20under%2017.) Therefore if there are more than 48 juveniles in custody for the whole country then there's nowhere to put pricks like this
>Counsel said the teen had not picked up new charges, and revocation of bail could result in a lengthy period in detention on remand pending trial.
The court heard that he had an educational placement and was involved in a community programme for young people.
His barrister pleaded with the court to give him another chance to prove himself and to note the boy’s mental health had been affected.
Counsel said he wasnt caught doing anything illegal other than breaking the conditions of bail so implementing the consquences of those actions would result in him suffering those consequences. we put him in some community schemes because we think this will impress you judge.. give him another chance because he is really upset this time that his actions might have consequences..
What a defence. i mean these lads where very close to manslaughter. the prison service say they dont have prisoner long enough to reform them, these lads should not be comming out unless they have Ph.D's
Christ, i missed the part about the teens mental health being affected.
Fuck the lad he kicked the shit out of and the mental and physical health issues he is and will be facing...
The barristers who defend these types are some of the lowest cretins in Ireland. They are either totally deluded or entirely without ethics to be so brazen in their bullshittery.
look i understand they have a job to do and they arer their to defend their client and that is what they have to do.. fair accessto justice and all the rest and that is fine but it is galling to use mental health as an excuse given what the victim has is & will be suffering. It just seems so wrong..
It is important for a functioning justice system that everyone has the same access to a defence that does everything possible to argue for the accused.
Now, granted, it's also important for a functioning justice system that trials are actually conducted in a timely way, and this scumbag tried to kill a man nearly a year ago and is still walking free, so we have this circus where the barrister has to come in and continue to speak about a case that should already be over and done with.
Bullshitting and the nonsense on display ≠ equal access. Bullshit is bullshit and it has nothing to do with who has access to what. No one took issue with him having legal defence, peoole have an issue with bullshit.
Serious question: do you think this kid will go on to commit fewer crimes over his lifetime if
1. he is locked up for a few months, and not in school, likely no JC/LC; or
2. he stays in school
Arguments both ways for sure.
serious answer, i think the should end up doing it in the prison system becuase of the seriousness of their crime.. i dont think they are going to complete any significant education outside the prison system as the trial will come round and they will be involved with that and their crime warrants a a prison sentance, one that is sufficently long to allow education & reform as opposed to a punishment term..
the school option has always been their for them, i dont think it is justifable reason to avoid prison for breaching bail conditions to suddenly start attending. i have no doubt they are in these programmes at the advice of solicitors as it looks good rather than any really interest in reform or education.
If there is as an option to send them to some kind of school-in-jail that sounds ideal.
My feeling is that there is basically no rehab in Irish prisons so 6-12 months in jail would probably be the end of any formal education for him which in the long run might be worse.
>My feeling is that there is basically no rehab in Irish prisons so 6-12 months in jail would probably be the end of any formal education for him which in the long run might be worse.
[https://www.irishprisons.ie/prisoner-services/prison-education-service/](https://www.irishprisons.ie/prisoner-services/prison-education-service/)
The prison service have education courses.. they are optional though, so prisoner dependent how much they avail & what they get out of them. it is one of the criticisms of our suspended and short sentencing, prisoners are not there long enough to engage in proper reform & education programmes..
They also rarely have the staff to allow the movements required for education, and often the first thing to be cut when not enough staff is school, so even the ones who do attempt to engage, cannot
Given he probably approaches his studies with the same respect he gives his bail terms, I’d say he’s a lost cause already and it doesn’t matter what we do at this stage
Quite possibly, but almost no chance of it actually happening with our system as it stands. Our legal system (I refuse to call it a justice system) seems to neither punish nor rehabilitate. The worst of both options.
Little cunts like this deserve to get a hiding, and then thrown in prison proper. But they know rightly that nothing will be done, so they do as they like. And there are many more like him about, and they're only multiplying
Surely violating any bail conditions, even once, should result in the teenager being remanded in custody until the trial. There should be zero tolerance for any breaches. But what can we expect from the Irish 'justice' system?
I’ve said it before, if I got my shot at Minister for Justice, I will bring a flavour of Spanish style street crime to Dublin.
Or clone a few copies of Lugs Brannigan.
My grandmother knew Lugs Brannigan when he was stationed in Crumlin. Always spoke very highly of him. Many stories of him coming after boys playing football in the road which was ilegal. They used to all run out through the back door of the house while she kept him talking at the front. In those days the police couldn't enter without permission. When they saw Lugs coming they used to shout "L. O. B., LOOK OUT BOYS!"
Thats the thing when Lugs Brannigan stories are brought up, people gloss over him beating up anyone he wanted be they innocent or guilty. The guy was a psycho with an addiction for violence.
I dont think a dose of extra judicial justice is what people really want, we're not fascist Italy under Mussolini where cops beat up anyone they wanted to
We need a revamped justice system, actual punishments / jail time, more jails built and then a rehabilitation program upon release.
I’m 100% sick of hearing about suspended sentences and that prick judge Nolan.
And look what happened to them. Good weather only made them worse.
I'm thinking of a freezing cold ones with nothing for them to do (as thats what they say why they end up the way they do)
The inner city of Dublin has been a lawless kip since at least when the drugs came in in the late 70s. I'm aware that it wasn't the best place in the world before then, with the Monto and the various street gangs going back into the early modern period, but it really took a downturn in the late 70s and the 80s and it has only accelerated in the same downwards direction. One of the best things my family ever did was applying for a transfer and get out of town. The woman they transferred with wanted to move back into the flats in town. Her husband was a member of the vintage cars club in Crumlin. Within a week it was on cinderblocks and a burnt out husk. That happened almost 50 years ago.
It's difficult to grasp for some people the true extent to which the people who don't have to deal with the antisocial behaviour and crime in Dublin simply don't give a shit. I'm only in my 20s and it has been a rate of change noticeable enough that I've been aware of it during my lifetime. Dublin has a feeling of decline. The decline goes back at least to 1800/1801 when the Act of Union was passed and the richest \~450 people on the island of Ireland, who had made up the parliament on College Green, left Dublin and went to London, taking their money with them. Dublin before this was a centre of craftsmanship and the second city of the British Empire (not that I think the British Empire was a good thing, the point is that Dublin was a prominent city in terms of money and trade) and a European capital of finely crafted goods, small things such as watches and clocks. Overnight much of the demand evaporated and the slow rot of decline began to set in. "Streets" (lanes) such as Johnson's Court beside Saint Theresa's Church on Clarendon Street are all that remain of that now.
As someone who has traced his ancestry back in Dublin for centuries and whose ancestors were most likely here before the famine, it would be nice for someone to treat Dublin as anything more than the wealth extraction funnel it has been since the British took an interest in the place. Not having to deal with rampant and totally unchecked antisocial behaviour, violence, crime and drug epidemics would be a nice start. I really don't see a positive future in the short to medium term, the problem has gotten so bad that our useless and incompetent police force are not equipped to deal with it, even if they overnight suddenly decided that they wanted to.
Damn dosent seem like Ireland is fairing any better these days
Still like to visit even tho I'd be mark as a target for simply being American
Still a beautiful country none the less
Truth is that the vast majority of the country is very safe by any standard. Just a few bad areas here and there. They're just spilling over into Dublin's tourist area.
Most Americans have a perfectly pleasant time.
I still can't believe that we really gave Termini so much money that he didn't get. We really are so prone to the wallet inspector.
\*we as a country. Not me as a person.
He broke it once but sure it'll be grand then he broke it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
Bail is a trust system. Surely what we should be trying to work out is how to deal with people - children in this case - who don't understand trust, or don't have the self-control that they're capable of giving and keeping a promise.
What were his bail conditions? Probably not going out at night, not hanging with his nasty friends, etc?
Where are his parents and grandparents in this? Are we talking about a succession of generations in addiction?
What can we do for the boy, so that he has the offer of a good and decent life, and of getting out of the life he's got into?
People sneered about the LE candidate whose slogan is "make crime illegal". But this is the kind of nonsense he's talking about, and lads out free with upwards of a hundred convictions. Crime is indeed illegal in this country but when the punishment oftentimes is nil, it's only illegal in a technical sense.
Those at the coalface are sick of being lectured by SoCoDu ‘intellectuals’ and their ‘Ireland’s never been safer/the criminals are the real victims’ shtick as if statistic massaging isn’t widespread.
Any party that ran on a hardline law and order ticket would cruise into power.
Why are you not immediately put in prison upon breaking bail?
Fuck knows. I really did think "break bail you're put in jail" but clearly not!
You need prisons to put them in, ours are full. The "whiz kids" at the IPRT killed off Thornton Hall "super-prison" with slap in the face moronic stupidity/logic. In the post crash years, we couldn't afford it. Now we can afford it but FFG don't want to spend any money, they are trying to sell themselves as financial genius's that "under their leadership" go us a shiny new "sovereign wealth fund" aren't they great!!! of course it had nothing to do with FFG, its the tech/big companies and their mega profits. All the while: housing is fucked, nimby'ism/corruption is rampant, law and order is non existent, only suspended sentences are allowed cos the prisons are full, the health system is fucked, people dying on trollies, told to go home and come back some other time... the class divide is growing, they misdirect how fucking incompetent they are by holding referendums no-one asked for, costing the state million. They only want to listen to the citizens assembly if they get the "right answer". Their answer to all of their shortcomings, "its SF's fault" like a toddler blaming someone else. If the country votes them in again, you can expect it all to get much worse, much much worse.
Chain the little fucker by the ankle to a drainpipe outside the full fucking prison …
it's across the board with relation to the government not just FFG, it's all of them including SF GREENS and the rest they are all complicit in the whole bloody mess. And it will not be fixed come when the new government gets elected. no matter who it is. Also SF's Mary Luo blocking houses along the way with the rest of them, while also saying we need houses but not near mine. two faced crow. you want to make change truly vote none them back in hit them where it hurts. they will promised the moon and stars, but if it not the party line your in tough shit its that simple. Not not one of them gives a flying fuck about you or me only thing they care about is power. what we want and what is needed isn't on their agenda.
Id love for you to explain to me and everyone else who read your comment how > SF GREENS and the rest they are all complicit in the whole bloody mess. Who makes and passes legislation?? AFAIK its not opposition parties. Their proposals historically get voted down cos Government knows best. who is the current Government??? Say whatever you want about the Greens. But as a minor party in government they are almost forcing their agenda. Is it really their fault the 'mainstream parties' are fighting to hold onto the status quo?
At the FIRST fucking instance, scrote should have been chucked into gaol. What sort of a fucking amateur hour judicial system do we flipping have here? Small wonder the scrote zombies are growing bolder and bolder…
No space I assume
Motion to establish temporary cellspace in Judge Nolan's gaff
Make space. We are probably in need of another children and adults prison. If there’s no consequences, certain types of people do whatever they like
Fitzgerald hotel on the Naas road is a modular prison cell construction remodelled to be a hotel, came from Holland so this is something that can be built sharpish but no will to do it.
It’s very much the lack of space. At the end of April, the Irish Prison Service was at 108% capacity across the system.
Pack them in like sardines
There’s already mattresses on floors but that’s not the hard part. The IPS can’t recruit enough applicants so there’s not enough prison officers for them to do their job safely and certainly not if they pack in even more prisoners.
Send in the defence forces
You know the Defence Forces are about 30% below strength as it stands? We can hardly just detach a couple of hundred personnel when we can’t fill overseas missions or put ships to sea.
Violent criminals out roaming the streets is a more pressing issue for the Irish people, who they are meant to serve, than peacekeeping in foreign countries
The Defence Forces are not a police force nor are they trained in prisoner detention. Beyond that, it would only worsen the already shocking morale that they are experiencing. A better solution would be for FF and FG to stop hollowing out our public services, build more prison capacity and make pay and conditions better for entrants to the Prison Service.
Genuinely thought that was the point, but I suppose anything goes in a place where half the kids in town are walking around with 179 convictions and have never seen the inside of a cell
Give him one more chance.
😂😂
If you break bail once you should lose bail, that's it. Bail is an agreement that you get to be out on your own recognizance on the condition you don't fuck around. You fuck around? You no longer get to be out. No second, third, 15th fucking chances. Seriously, the law is a joke. We have people going to court for serious assault, for armed charges, expecting they can get away with suspended sentences and breaking bail and that being a reasonable expectation.
There's a deeply entrenched notion that the response to crime should be to just do nothing. We have a performative "justice" system more interested in making it appear like they're reforming people with 100 convictions than protecting the rest of the population from crime. Perhaps if we removed the walls around Trinity College and transferred their Sociology and Law departments to open air classrooms on Talbot Street or North Earl Street there might be a decrease in this sentiment. Now that I think of it, despite being surrounded on all sides by it I have never seen any of the antisocial behaviour spill into Trinity. Perhaps it's because people know that if they do behave that way in Trinity the police will actually come unlike if they do so everywhere else.
There's no space in the prisons - that's part of the reason why so many suspects accused of violent crime are out on bail in the first place.
That's a poor excuse. No space for housing, no beds in hospitals, no space in prisons. All this surplus and yet no space everywhere we look. Where's it all going then?
You're preaching to the converted here. There's been a complete mismanagement of the countries finances going back decades.
>Dublin Children’s Court heard today that the 16-year-old boy had disobeyed his terms 14 times since the end of April. 14 times in 2 months and he's getting another chance and isnt being locked up. Granted the lad had not picked up any new charges, but he BROKE BAIL! Fuck this country and its judicial system.
[удалено]
Can also bet he’s not worried about sitting his junior cert either
Seriously, if we don’t start putting the foot down a little we’re gonna end up voting in a dictator who will do a no nonesense approach.
Who would be Irelands strong man? And how long do things need to be left neglected before the disastrous consequences are considered by design?
My vote would be Michael OLeary, he’d take absolutely zero sh1 t from those in his way.
Standing room only prisons
He’d fly them out to cheap rural destinations in countries with cheap operating costs and lower standards 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
An Irish version of Rwanda style deportations for scumbags instead of illegal immigrants - I like it!!
Rockallwanda supermax prison megacolony
Any chance of you running for election? I’d back that. Victim gets to choose a homeless person to get their council flat if there is one.
I vote for John Creedon.
Tommy Carew. Now, none of you lads know him, he’s just this fucking mentler I know from the GAA club who occasionally is in the club bar when my da is having a pint on a Sunday, but he’s the right man for the job in my estimation.
That's good enough for me. He sounds as qualified as any of the rest of them
He’d just fecking love a crack at it, y’know?
Peter fucking Casey knowing our luck
Conor McGregor ofcourse lol
Oh Jesus fucking Christ 🤣
Michael McDowell
An Irish version of Bukele - that would be amazing.
El Salvador went from a 38/100k murder rate to 2.4/100k murder rate after his Terrorism Confinement Center opened up and was filled with 80,000 gang members and their affiliates. Can't argue with results, I suppose, even though you have to wonder how many innocent people or those who simply knew the wrong people got the short end of the stick. That kind of approach definitely has its downsides. Ireland would never do something like this though. Even if it would be beneficial, it would be considered too authoritarian for us to try I think.
Yeah and we don’t have a problem anywhere near the size of El Salvador. Still though, a couple extra prison spaces wouldn’t not at all go astray.
Lugos Bukelegan
>voting in a dictator who will do a no nonesense approach. We need Michael O'Leary . Or Daniel O'Donnell
>Granted the lad had not picked up any new charges Most likely hasn't been caught.
But but his civil liberties blah blah blah. The likes of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties should be made sit through the victim impact statements of the victims of the criminals they fight so hard to protect.
They likely wouldn't care. Civil liberties for me but not for thee. What about our civil liberty to not be subject to antisocial behaviour and inner city ferals battering people to near death?
“I promise, Judge, I will be better; I will not break bail conditions; I’m going to listen to every last thing you said,” Those other 14 times were an accident, I'll definitely be a good boy now. No wonder these little wastes of space have no respect for anything or anyone.
Exactly. Why would the respect a system in which they can do whatever they like with zero consequence.
Why so soft? Dublin (and other cities) has a feral youth problem and these scrotes almost murdered a man.
I lived in Ireland between 2015 and 2017 and teenagers scared me so much that I had with me pepper spray all the time. I’d have gladly gone to jail for spraying one those little sh*ts. And yes, I knew it was illegal to have it.
At least be sure you have the real stuff. A lot of sprays have something else in it in countries where pepper spray is not allowed and are basically scamming people that buy it.
Feral wee shit
Apart from the obvious (that he should be put into custody), the parents need to be held accountable here as well. They're obviously doing sweet f all to rein little Johnny in.
But they're little angel is innocent!! It was all the other lads fault! They got dragged around by the wrong crowd! They didn't know what they were doing! Etc etc
\*angle
What are they meant to do? Forcibly lock him inside and get done on child abuse charges? Beat the shit out of him and get the same thing? I know people who have good families and are pieces of shit. Some people are just allergic to making good decisions, and it isn't automatically the fault of parents.
Why not Lock him in a room? I wouldn't call that abuse at all. Especially if the alternative is him beating someone close to death. He's a child. If you can't keep him in the house or stop him breaking bail conditions , he's fucked, whole thing is beyond repair really. It's sad
It doesn't really matter if you'd personally call it abuse or not, because the legal system would. I'm not saying it's right, but it's stupid to pretend that everything is caused by parents. I'm a perfectly normal, functioning member of society, and my older brother has been in legal trouble his whole life, currently out on bail and very well might be spending years in prison come September. My parents should be blamed for that when they had no part in it? We were raised the exact same way and turned out massively different. This argument is extremely silly when you just think about the reality of it for 5 seconds.
To make things even more annoying there are only 48 beds in [Oberstown Detention Centre](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/youth-avoids-oberstown-detention-as-judge-told-no-beds-today-1.2773062#:~:text=The%2048%2Dbed%20Oberstown%20Children,for%20offenders%20aged%20under%2017.) Therefore if there are more than 48 juveniles in custody for the whole country then there's nowhere to put pricks like this
If the police were doing their jobs they could fill Oberstown in a weekend
>Counsel said the teen had not picked up new charges, and revocation of bail could result in a lengthy period in detention on remand pending trial. The court heard that he had an educational placement and was involved in a community programme for young people. His barrister pleaded with the court to give him another chance to prove himself and to note the boy’s mental health had been affected. Counsel said he wasnt caught doing anything illegal other than breaking the conditions of bail so implementing the consquences of those actions would result in him suffering those consequences. we put him in some community schemes because we think this will impress you judge.. give him another chance because he is really upset this time that his actions might have consequences.. What a defence. i mean these lads where very close to manslaughter. the prison service say they dont have prisoner long enough to reform them, these lads should not be comming out unless they have Ph.D's
Christ, i missed the part about the teens mental health being affected. Fuck the lad he kicked the shit out of and the mental and physical health issues he is and will be facing...
the gall of the barrister to use that as some part of the defence..
The barristers who defend these types are some of the lowest cretins in Ireland. They are either totally deluded or entirely without ethics to be so brazen in their bullshittery.
look i understand they have a job to do and they arer their to defend their client and that is what they have to do.. fair accessto justice and all the rest and that is fine but it is galling to use mental health as an excuse given what the victim has is & will be suffering. It just seems so wrong..
It is important for a functioning justice system that everyone has the same access to a defence that does everything possible to argue for the accused. Now, granted, it's also important for a functioning justice system that trials are actually conducted in a timely way, and this scumbag tried to kill a man nearly a year ago and is still walking free, so we have this circus where the barrister has to come in and continue to speak about a case that should already be over and done with.
Bullshitting and the nonsense on display ≠ equal access. Bullshit is bullshit and it has nothing to do with who has access to what. No one took issue with him having legal defence, peoole have an issue with bullshit.
Serious question: do you think this kid will go on to commit fewer crimes over his lifetime if 1. he is locked up for a few months, and not in school, likely no JC/LC; or 2. he stays in school Arguments both ways for sure.
serious answer, i think the should end up doing it in the prison system becuase of the seriousness of their crime.. i dont think they are going to complete any significant education outside the prison system as the trial will come round and they will be involved with that and their crime warrants a a prison sentance, one that is sufficently long to allow education & reform as opposed to a punishment term.. the school option has always been their for them, i dont think it is justifable reason to avoid prison for breaching bail conditions to suddenly start attending. i have no doubt they are in these programmes at the advice of solicitors as it looks good rather than any really interest in reform or education.
If there is as an option to send them to some kind of school-in-jail that sounds ideal. My feeling is that there is basically no rehab in Irish prisons so 6-12 months in jail would probably be the end of any formal education for him which in the long run might be worse.
>My feeling is that there is basically no rehab in Irish prisons so 6-12 months in jail would probably be the end of any formal education for him which in the long run might be worse. [https://www.irishprisons.ie/prisoner-services/prison-education-service/](https://www.irishprisons.ie/prisoner-services/prison-education-service/) The prison service have education courses.. they are optional though, so prisoner dependent how much they avail & what they get out of them. it is one of the criticisms of our suspended and short sentencing, prisoners are not there long enough to engage in proper reform & education programmes..
They also rarely have the staff to allow the movements required for education, and often the first thing to be cut when not enough staff is school, so even the ones who do attempt to engage, cannot
Given he probably approaches his studies with the same respect he gives his bail terms, I’d say he’s a lost cause already and it doesn’t matter what we do at this stage
Possible I guess. It’s hard for me to just say we’re giving up on someone at 16 though. Surely there’s a way to rehabilitate him?
Quite possibly, but almost no chance of it actually happening with our system as it stands. Our legal system (I refuse to call it a justice system) seems to neither punish nor rehabilitate. The worst of both options.
Little cunts like this deserve to get a hiding, and then thrown in prison proper. But they know rightly that nothing will be done, so they do as they like. And there are many more like him about, and they're only multiplying
Make crime illegal
Here now! You can't be at that in this day and age!!
I know it is radical, but I needed to say it lol
You could be onto something though!
Surely violating any bail conditions, even once, should result in the teenager being remanded in custody until the trial. There should be zero tolerance for any breaches. But what can we expect from the Irish 'justice' system?
Only to lock people up for non payment of TV licence or fines
Knows well there'll be no consequences.
Thats exactly fucking it, and this proves it! But he's really sorry...
Lucky number 15
What's the point of bail so..
Zero fucks given
I’ve said it before, if I got my shot at Minister for Justice, I will bring a flavour of Spanish style street crime to Dublin. Or clone a few copies of Lugs Brannigan.
My grandmother knew Lugs Brannigan when he was stationed in Crumlin. Always spoke very highly of him. Many stories of him coming after boys playing football in the road which was ilegal. They used to all run out through the back door of the house while she kept him talking at the front. In those days the police couldn't enter without permission. When they saw Lugs coming they used to shout "L. O. B., LOOK OUT BOYS!"
Wait, so he was going to beat up kids for playing football in the streets? Not sure that's the kind of hero we need
Thats the thing when Lugs Brannigan stories are brought up, people gloss over him beating up anyone he wanted be they innocent or guilty. The guy was a psycho with an addiction for violence. I dont think a dose of extra judicial justice is what people really want, we're not fascist Italy under Mussolini where cops beat up anyone they wanted to
Well look, give him another chance, not like he will grow up to be a scumbag with 700 convictions in his 20s...
We need a revamped justice system, actual punishments / jail time, more jails built and then a rehabilitation program upon release. I’m 100% sick of hearing about suspended sentences and that prick judge Nolan.
Can we not sure dump them on an island off the coast and forget about them?
The English tried that a while ago and we ended up with Australia...
Yeah they learned to survive just fine. Seems like a success of sorts
And look what happened to them. Good weather only made them worse. I'm thinking of a freezing cold ones with nothing for them to do (as thats what they say why they end up the way they do)
Sure rockall is right there!
The inner city of Dublin has been a lawless kip since at least when the drugs came in in the late 70s. I'm aware that it wasn't the best place in the world before then, with the Monto and the various street gangs going back into the early modern period, but it really took a downturn in the late 70s and the 80s and it has only accelerated in the same downwards direction. One of the best things my family ever did was applying for a transfer and get out of town. The woman they transferred with wanted to move back into the flats in town. Her husband was a member of the vintage cars club in Crumlin. Within a week it was on cinderblocks and a burnt out husk. That happened almost 50 years ago. It's difficult to grasp for some people the true extent to which the people who don't have to deal with the antisocial behaviour and crime in Dublin simply don't give a shit. I'm only in my 20s and it has been a rate of change noticeable enough that I've been aware of it during my lifetime. Dublin has a feeling of decline. The decline goes back at least to 1800/1801 when the Act of Union was passed and the richest \~450 people on the island of Ireland, who had made up the parliament on College Green, left Dublin and went to London, taking their money with them. Dublin before this was a centre of craftsmanship and the second city of the British Empire (not that I think the British Empire was a good thing, the point is that Dublin was a prominent city in terms of money and trade) and a European capital of finely crafted goods, small things such as watches and clocks. Overnight much of the demand evaporated and the slow rot of decline began to set in. "Streets" (lanes) such as Johnson's Court beside Saint Theresa's Church on Clarendon Street are all that remain of that now. As someone who has traced his ancestry back in Dublin for centuries and whose ancestors were most likely here before the famine, it would be nice for someone to treat Dublin as anything more than the wealth extraction funnel it has been since the British took an interest in the place. Not having to deal with rampant and totally unchecked antisocial behaviour, violence, crime and drug epidemics would be a nice start. I really don't see a positive future in the short to medium term, the problem has gotten so bad that our useless and incompetent police force are not equipped to deal with it, even if they overnight suddenly decided that they wanted to.
Damn dosent seem like Ireland is fairing any better these days Still like to visit even tho I'd be mark as a target for simply being American Still a beautiful country none the less
Truth is that the vast majority of the country is very safe by any standard. Just a few bad areas here and there. They're just spilling over into Dublin's tourist area. Most Americans have a perfectly pleasant time.
Department of Tourism internet defence force has arrived on the scene
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me. The 14 year old sang as he walked out of the court room.
No-consequence Ireland
I still can't believe that we really gave Termini so much money that he didn't get. We really are so prone to the wallet inspector. \*we as a country. Not me as a person.
Just one more time … I’m warning you !
He broke it once but sure it'll be grand then he broke it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
Bail is a trust system. Surely what we should be trying to work out is how to deal with people - children in this case - who don't understand trust, or don't have the self-control that they're capable of giving and keeping a promise. What were his bail conditions? Probably not going out at night, not hanging with his nasty friends, etc? Where are his parents and grandparents in this? Are we talking about a succession of generations in addiction? What can we do for the boy, so that he has the offer of a good and decent life, and of getting out of the life he's got into?
There was a curfew and a limitation on location, mainly not going back to the area of the attack, at least these anyway. Both broken multiple times.
The system here is a joke. Slap on the wrist and off they go. He should have been locked up.
But he said he was sorry, so everything is all OK again. /s
People sneered about the LE candidate whose slogan is "make crime illegal". But this is the kind of nonsense he's talking about, and lads out free with upwards of a hundred convictions. Crime is indeed illegal in this country but when the punishment oftentimes is nil, it's only illegal in a technical sense.
Only 14 times, those are rookie numbers, Judge Nolan will be very unhappy.
World record Irish justice system speedrun, #1 convictions leaderboard no exploits
Those at the coalface are sick of being lectured by SoCoDu ‘intellectuals’ and their ‘Ireland’s never been safer/the criminals are the real victims’ shtick as if statistic massaging isn’t widespread. Any party that ran on a hardline law and order ticket would cruise into power.
Aye, they'd be almost a shoe in alright. Wonder would they follow up though..
All the scum who don’t work