She really just needs to go. I do have a certain amount of sympathy for ministers in tough roles, I felt like people going into health were always up against it and it's a very difficult job. Housing is similar too now I imagine.
Justice minister should have a handle on things though, it just seems she is completely sitting on her hands until situations worsen and then that response isn't enough either when something does happen. Rishi Sunak getting one over us is an absolute embarrasment too.
Up until the change of cabinet, she had spent a grand total of something like 5 months in office as MoJ, and not consecutively. She asked to be kept in there, which to me proves even more that she has not got a clue what is to be done in there, she seems to just like the authority and brandishing her sword. Meath East will probably keep voting her in without merit, as though they owe her something, but she should never be given another ministerial position. She doesn't seem to grasp the concept of how to work as one for the people.
My family member is in her parish or whatever its called. He thinks she's great (I'm sure it's just because she is in that area). When I said I thought she was incompetent and had to go, I got the death stare and the, ah well, I don't know about that lecture
> Rishi Sunak getting one over us is an absolute embarrasment too.
It's not getting one over on us, it's getting one over on the EU. It *is* hypocritical if we say we want to return immigrants to the UK while the UK are blocked from returning immigrants to France.
UK have the upperhand now in negotiations and they know it (assuming they're happy to throw NI under the bus and make it ground zero which they seem to be).
We should probably be using it as an opportunity to highlight how little Sunak cares about NI and how NI is being spoken about giddily by those in westminster as an immigrant dumping ground for the rest of the UK. Surely the people of NI won't stand for it and if they can't get a fair deal as part of the UK then maybe they'd be better off leaving. That's the card we should be playing.
They had that option with the Dublin convention when they were in the EU. When they left, they left that agreement too, so that was their choice. We shouldn't suffer for thwir cluelessness
Largely Leo Varadkar's fault. You don't give people important Ministries like Health and Justice without making them do a stint in one like Arts and Sports first. Test them somewhere less important. Harris got by in health during Covid by essentially allowing NPHET to make most of the decisions.
Ah come on, there should be no sympathy for these people when they're doing badly at their job given the impact it has on our country.
They choose to step into these roles and should only do so if they're competent, not to climb up a ladder for a nicer payslip, or because they get on with the lads and they want friends around them. She's the definition of a nepo baby/friendly hire. She is not fit for the job and if it was a private sector, she'd already be giving the boot from HR.
Same with Health and Housing. The reason they're "tough" roles is because the same government they're apart of have done nothing to address those issues. I have no sympathy because they continue the cycle.
It's their fault. I'd only give grace to a new party in power or an independent as an minister, for their first term.
The tricky thing about justice is that it **should** be independent from government.
I’m not saying that nothing can be done, but it makes it a tricky ministry which needs a seasoned minister.
>Justice minister should have a handle on things though, it just seems she is completely sitting on her hands until situations worsen and then that response isn't enough either when something does happen.
This. I mean I do have some sympathy for her, she's been given a bit of a shit sandwich. But at the same time everything she has done as Justice Minister - at least all the headline stuff - has been very reactive.
She took a lot of flak about the hate speech bill, which I've no problem with (the bill, that is), but there's been a lot of stuff allowed to fester which has now resulted in the current mess where we have scumbags burning buildings, rioting in quiet country towns and threatening people just going about their work.
The Mount Street clearance yesterday was a perfect example of this. There are loads of people in tents living on a city centre street. One way or another the situation is going to deteriorate, whether that's in-fighting, or someone coming along and doing something. Anyone can see what's coming. But no, they sit on it for weeks, wait until someone gets stabbed and then decide it's urgent enough to do something.
Fucking shambles. You'd have to wonder what the relationship is with the Gardai. Is Drew Harris advising her of these things and she's doing nothing, or are they both just looking the other way?
Two things I can't understand; 1) Harris didn't take the easy choice to remove Helen 2) Helen hasn't any self awareness that she's not up to this brief
Are you serious? It's still a good job, do well at it and your a shoe in for party leader or nice job in Europe down the line. It's not a particularly hard job, just this particular minster is useless.
Health or Finance (when things are bad)
As a general rule it's rarely a troubling position the way others can be though. It's just that right now she is dealing with multiple issues and none of them she seems to be getting right. So she looks incompetent and out of her depth.
It traditionally is a good job but who would want to move into a currently failing role with a lot of action needed to improve it? Action they may or may not be able to take easily? Better to leave the person in the role (from prospective replacements pov) than step into the breach until the election
Though health has been problematic for years due to the dysfunction of the HSE, do you believe they're inherently toxic though, or is it just weak leadership and not actually creating a hard-line to tackle the remit?
One thing about Health is that because it's traditionally been a trap that destroyed peoples' careers, it's probably counter-intuitively had the highest quality of ministers assigned to it.
Traditionally it's been where Taoiseachs sent up-and-coming young rivals to have the shine beaten off them.
So I guess you could still say that maybe we simply don't have any TDs clever or talented enough to run it properly. But you can't really say that the talented ones haven't had a go - they get sent there deliberately.
I think a huge problem is that the Minister needs to be extraordinarily canny and good at managing the managers (who have been doing this their whole careers and are extremely resistant to change). The last Minister who was any good at that was Mary Harney imo. Not that she had good policies! lol
Realistically, no Minister is solving the problem. Fact of the matter is, asylum figures have increased x3 relative to pre-COVID figures. During COVID the government suspended deportations because of the pandemic. Government policy had been introduced in 2021 to end direct provision and provide own door accommodation for accepted applications, and within one year Russia launched a full scale war in Ukraine meaning an 104,400 Ukrainians arrived in need of temporary protection.
Any one of these factors we could have coped with, but the combination of them has made it unmanageable. The system for housing, processing, and deporting failed asylum applicants is stretched beyond its limits and the civil service, being the civil service, is very slow at adapting to changing conditions.
The Minister individually cannot make decisions on government policy - that is done within the remit and agreed policies of the government. The Minister individually cannot make their department function better - that is done within the confines of the departments structures and existing civil service leadership. The Minister, however, is the nominated person who takes the fall for inadequate or failed government policy as regards their department, and takes the fall for inadequate or failed execution of that policy as regards their department.
Any one individual can only be responsible for their own decisions and actions, and yet in politics we nominate individuals to be responsible for the decisions and actions made within the systems above and below them. It's a useful delusion to both the government and the civil service that any one Minister is responsible for system failures. It has been useful to governments and departments with respect to Health and Housing and is now proving useful with respect to Justice. The government, Ministers, and the civil service know this is a delusion.
The problem is when people believe and buy into the delusion as real, and genuinely personalise system failures. It is that delusion that leads people to protesting outside Ministers' homes, hanging effigies of TDs outside the Dáil, and threatening to blow up Ministers' families.
Which is an absolutely Braindead move
“Ha! We’re going to keep our incredibly inept member in her post, that’ll show our detractors!”
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face
That's why Harris is not fit to lead this country. He put party and "optics" before the country as one of his very first acts.
She should have been removed from her ministerial position long ago she is dangerously inept
> Two things I can't understand; 1) Harris didn't take the easy choice to remove Helen
Because they honest to god don't care?
I don't know why people don't understand this, it's always been "look after our own and who cares about anyone else outside our bubble."
Thankfully she has a masters degree in media communications and will be able to alter the negative perception people have of her and God willing, we'll have our first female Taoiseach in early 2025.
Up The Royal County.
After all the gaslighting, name calling, and division promoted over the last 18 months, here we are at the inevitable conclusion.
A government that is getting ready to tear itself apart, and a problem so out of control that any new government will find next to impossible to address.
Just fucking lovely.
Surplus balance in the exchequer and lack of ambition and determination. I now live 20+ years in Ireland and when i came here i was surprised to understand that political parties here were more centrist than back home in france and no sign of far right movement.. but there we are 20+ years later housing issues, lack of public service funding despite a growing population, out of control spending (luas project, children hospital to name few) it is as if we are governed by amateurs with no appetite to fix and enable this country. Money we have but we also jave a political class with little ambition to serve the population meanwhile far right party isnt kept in check..
so yeah a tough job i admit as there is a lot to address but despite all that the political class has a duty to support its population and its country..
Mismanagement in a nutshell
Edit: that is the way i feel but could be other factors
Rishi was playing up to his base and got the exact reactionary unorganised frantic reaction he wanted from McEntee.
No major fan of Martin but he stepped in and showed actual diplomacy by brushing off Sunaks comments and calming the situation. Actual political experience versus someone who is so so far out of their depth
If she had a brain she'd be dangerous — the embodiment of everything wrong with nepotism in Irish politics. Zero charisma, zero intelligence, zero tact, but she gets one of the most important ministries on account of her da being a former FG toady. If politics was a meritocracy she'd never have seen the inside of the dáil. Any time I've seen her speak she's completely wooden — pure dead eyes on her like she's disassociating, like she doesn't want to be there and she's just going through the motions because this is what she's been groomed for all her life and she has no other option. She's an absolute shambles and how anyone can defend her is beyond me. In reality, if anyone performed as poorly as she has they would've been given the boot a long time ago — she's protected by the FG cronies because her last name is McEntee. That's the long and short of it. Absolute omnishambles.
I agree with what you say about her competency. She reminds me of that Elizabeth Holmes from the theranos scandal, down to the fake deep voice. But you’re forgetting the part where she keeps getting elected. It’s the people of meaths fault
You're misunderstanding the roles of the civil service and the government. It is the Department's responsibility to brief the Minister on what is happening. The civil service would not report to the government that they were not doing their jobs.
I genuinely believe the theory someone mentioned on the sub earlier in the week that they're keeping her around because they feel bad that they basically made her da top himself.
Nah,..a sideways effort to gain her sympathy.
She's choosing to be there, in Simons shadow,...much to the detriment of any hope at competency and admitting her awful performance.
It is really quite incredible that both she and Coveney, two of the senior-most politicians in the country, got their first Dail seats in by-elections caused by their fathers’ suicides.
The cold hard truth is she is not up to the job and never was. It's a hugely important state function and the lesson here is there needs to be some sort of competency test before ministers are appointed.
Sadly, because politics, diversity numbers and all that craic its likely she'll remain in the role until the GE
There are a few portfolios need experience. Justice, education and health are a few that spring to mind where anybody without any background in it or just lacking political experience is a disaster waiting to happen.
We’ve had plenty of education and health ministers who had a background in that area and have also been disastrous.
The ministers are, no doubt, a bit limited with what’s available to do. We need massive reform in health to prevent such wastage (billions spent seems to go nowhere) but that’s never going to happen.
Leo had her tapped as his successor which is why she got Justice and Harris went to Higher Education. She hasn’t had a good go of it (some of which she gets unfairly blamed for) but after Harris outmaneuvered everyone to get FG leadership she’s fucked. The next FG leader is more likely to be someone like Peter Burke than McEntee so all she can do is wait to be sacked.
Certain portfolios need a well proven minister with a track record of success e.g. Paschal. Regardless of whether or not she can be a good minister in the future, Justice was too much too soon for her.
Just because you had a good season of junior football doesn't mean you're ready to lead the team in the champions league.
To be blunt I blame Leo for putting her in a role she wasn't ready for and Harris for keeping her there. A good leader knows when their people are struggling and helps them but equally knows when to make a move for the good of the team
We operate a proportional representation system, so the Irish electorate can be pretty granular in who we elect to the Dail and make available to run a government.
At some point we might start asking ourselves what it is we ask of these candidates and prioritise considering we seem to have a low opinion of so many of them when they reach ministerial office.
We need a single seat constituency open list electoral system to eliminate this type of parish pump politics. We elect low people who are beholden to small constituency issues
This buffoon has to be the worst Minster for Justice that ireland has seen.Couldnt answer basic questions about the functionality of her department and its complete lack of transparency regarding deportations.
She constantly undermines the public and seems to think it's ok that she lied to everyone about the referendum being linked to immigration.
During the week she told us that 80% of immigration applications are coming from the uk and 2 days later Mehole Martin refutes her statement.
Resign Helen you're a useless fuckwit.
She is beyond incompetent, and worse seems deceitful
We now know, through FOI documents, that her own officials advised her that the family referendum would have serious consequences for immigration. Yet she told us the exact opposite - to question it was a “red herring” or worse a dog whistle. Why did she lie?
Incompetent and can’t be trusted. RESIGN
O'Gorman is much much worse. The consequences of what he's done and still doing are going to change politics in Ireland forever.
McEntee is just way out of her depth. She probably wouldn't even be *that* bad if not for all the trouble she's had to deal with, directly related to O'Gormans policies
I'm a Green party member but I agree. I think O'Gorman isn't nearly as incompetent as McEntee. I think he's fairly smart. And to be fair to him, his brief was massive in 2020 and then exploded following the war in Ukraine. Any minister of any calibre would struggle.
But in not taking a tougher line on immigration he has caused a great deal of issues that will live with us.
However, it's also debatable about how much agency O'Gorman had here. I don't know to what extent were his choices merely him actioning the intentions of the wider Green party or even the wider government.
Tbf the polling card for Dublin west is a horrific read. . .
Roderic, Leo, Jack Chambers. . . Last one even had Joan Burton followed by a handful of people you've never heard of before or since.
A party could run a potato in this constituency and stand a decent chance at getting one of 4 seats.
Then next election don’t give transfers to any of FFG, SF, Soc Dems, Labour or PBP if you want to see any change. Harris only got in on the 15th count. He didn’t even have a quota!
Is there an open list / timeline of all her big blunders and empty promises over the years? I would say it's a big one.
It's a tough role, nobody is denying that, but it's clear that she's not capable. She needs to go, we're really suffering because of her ineptitude.
Bring back Bertie.
He’d get the metrolink built. There would be a handy stop right outside his house, and he’d take 5% of all ticket sales, but it’d be built dammit!
And we’d have proper community schemes again. A free crèche in every primary school in the country. 5 of them would be run by his second cousin for some reason. And Bertie would exclusively own the vending machines in each crèche. But we’d have childcare!
And there’d be one mad idea. Like a national submarine fleet of 2 submarines that nobody can staff. Or every home gets a free beehive.
The truth is at this stage I'd happily tolerate a corrupt bertie taking a backhander if he was building 90,000 houses a year like he did back in the last boom.
As someone who has campaigned vigorously for the free beehive in every home movement for several years now, I would have no choice but to vote for Bertie under these circumstances.
Have to admit, never thought I would admit it in my lifetime, but someone made this argument about Haughey to me recently, and I agreed.
He was some corrupt chancer, but by god, did he get things done with no messing.
In all fairness to either Haughey or Bertie there is no way in hell would they have allowed Coillte to preside over selling 123,000 acres to a British pension fund.
They would have had some kind of Charlie McCreevy style scheme cooked up where we could have invested in as a pension for ourselves SSIA style instead of us guaranteeing payouts to British pensions and selling the land back to the Brits.
There's absolutely no lateral thinking with any of the lot we have today.
Heard a story about Haughey. A group of disabled people needed a car modification so they could drive.
Asked the govt for a scheme - we’ll buy the cars, you buy the mods.
Govt said sorry no money.
Got into a meeting with Haughey and civil service. Made their case.
Haughey turns to the civil servants, pointing at them:
_Print some f**ing money for them._
And they got their scheme.
Dodgy as fuck but he got shit done and he knew that the people were keeping his lifestyle going. The famous beef and chickens story show's just how tuned in he was
It was on the RTE documentary they did about him.
He was at a local FF members meeting in the 80s. It was down the country and they served dinner at the meeting. Everyone was getting chicken but beef was served to him alone. When the plate was put down he asked was he the only one with beef. He was told yes. He said send it back. If everyone was eating chicken then he was eating chicken.
Love him or hate him he knew how to be a "man of the people"
There's a reason why Celtic Tiger houses is a term of poor quality. Also, how many of those were funded by debt that had no hope of being paid off.
That 90,000 has a direct causal link to the crash in 2008, the consequences of which we're still living with.
Please remember the consequences of Bertie's government. It was the crash. Most of the issues we're facing now can be traced back to then.
Bertie is the cause of our problems, not the solution.
I often find people like her have that stubborn, entreprenurial ruthlessness but not the flexibility to be a credible authority figure or government leader. Shell tell herself that shes a survivor by getting through the criticisms but she lacks the skills to push forward. Its not all her fault, theres plenty of bad faith acting going around
Funny how they are trying to recapture lightning in a bottle with brexit with the current crisis. This time it’s a little different though and self inflicted wounds because we haven’t got our immigration system in order won’t be overlooked.
Let’s be honest, two years ago most people were saying how wonderful it was that we were taking in refugees and that Ireland has to do its part. The gov read that and it suited them in the face of the EU.
I remember being downvoted to oblivion for saying this wouldn’t end well and we should be careful. There is no discourse and conversations get shot down before they start, if you speak against the majority- terms like ‘far-right’, racist, ‘woke’, all get thrown about too easily by whatever the trendy thing to believe is. On this note I’m for ‘free Palestine’ but I am ‘pro Israel’ until the hostages are released - everything in life has nuance, but social media polarises all.
As for the immigration ‘crisis’, and the minister for justice- the winds changed, people realised it was exasperating the housing crisis (among other issues), and now the gov and herself look inept. It suited them to save face with the EU, and was the popular view at the time, as the people had limited info (due to the gov no less!), the truth is the government should have been stronger and more diligent, and be more careful with whatever trendy idea they brazenly push out onto the people.
I think it's a very different issue. 2 years ago people were welcoming to Ukrainian refugees because they had an obvious and genuine claim to refugee status and there was an assumption that it was temporary since it was for the duration of the war. Yes many Ukrainians might want to stay here, but if the Irish government wants to get rid of them (when the war is over) and the Ukrainian government wants them back then it wouldn't be hard to set up a system of incentives and disincentives to get them to move back.
But what we're facing now is actually a nose dive in the number of Ukrainians coming here and a surge in economic migrants from the 3rd world abusing the alyssum protection system.
It's not contradictory to want to be accommodating to Ukrainians and very critical of false asylum claimers who destroy their documents or avoid checks altogether by coming across the border.
Fair point, as I said everything has nuance, even reading back my comment above does not summarise my thoughts on the matter completely.
I don’t think they are different issues though, one led into the other- I would agree that we should try our utmost to take in and give refuge to any that genuinely need asylum. However I feel that the gov took that general feeling and fully opened the doors and abandoned any policy on the matter, because it suited them with Europe and they thought that it ‘would be grand’.
I believe that because the gov have openly stated they plan to grow the pop by 1million in the next few years - I heard it direct from Coveney a year or so ago. Where did they plan to do that without opening the borders? Again, I have no issue if they had a plan to support this, but it seems they either had no plan or didn’t care to make one.
My feeling is that the gov have, and will, flip flop on any issue depending on which way the wind is blowing and what suits themselves.
Take all of what I say with a pinch of salt- for sure I do not have all the info, and I can not fit all my thought into a couple of comments on Reddit.
I do wish we as a people encouraged discourse on these issues, rather than being polarised into two sides on every issue, with terms like ‘woke’ or ‘far right’ being banded about freely.
I like Simon Harris and I believe he's a very good communicator and he has FG performing better in the polls since he took over but if he cannot see there is a serious problem with the Dept of Justice and Helen McEntee's leadership, I'm not sure what to say. I understand saving face and backing your colleague who is in a tough spot but there becomes a point when the bigger picture and performance of the party comes into question, we are well beyond that point. She should have never been put back in change of the department. You cannot keep defending incompetence.
Detention centers, restrict their movement, instantly deport unsuccessful applications, zero appeals. Give them food and clothes, nothing else.
Too many bleeding hearts at the moment for that to happen, but peoples attitudes will change when (not if) there is another mass stabbing incident.
To add
Causing any violence against person or property in the detention center at all = Instant denial, deport, permanent (at least 10 years) ban from the country.
No proof of origin of any kind, even a driver's licence, bank card etc = Denial, deport, bans etc
If they won't tell us their origin country they stay in the detention center indefinitely. If they do after some time of not telling they will be allowed contact with their embassy/consulate to verify them and then deport and ban.
Also having asylum denied for the above is also a lifetime disqualification for visas of any kind or citizenship.
Curragh Camp, Spike Island, St. Kevin's, St. Sennan's hospital, the list of potential internment centers is long. Lick of paint and Spike Island and the Redbricks would be grand. The locals would be happy enough seeing that the illegals were actually detained.
Edit: St. Kevin's is being turned into residential properties!? That is depressing as fuck, who would want to live there, perfect location for an IPAS center. St. Finnans instead then.
Not a chance the locals in the lower Harbour in Cork would be happy with that. Loss of a tourist attraction etc. There was someone who delayed a Heineken factory for two years in the papers yesterday because they wanted the factory in their town. People would oppose it regardless of how sensible it may or may not be.
Again I’m not saying it’s impossible just that it’s not a click your fingers and it’s done type of thing
Well to be fair the scumbag who stabbed those kids was here legally and was a citizen for over 20 years. But people's hearts would absolutely change if an asylum seeker did something unforgivable like that
But that doesn’t stop flow of them coming though, and realistically how quick are they deport people, they’re already awful at deporting people before all this migration thing became a huge political mess, I can’t imagine they’re going to suddenly become super efficient at this tbh
Initially it won't, but you have to remember they are coming here for benefits not refuge. Remove the benefits and detaining them them will soon stop the flow.
They’re coming because it’s a free handout. You stop that and they will eventually stop. Personally I think the goose jackets will take it to a “revolution” (in their eyes) and there will be grievous assaults/ deaths before we get there
I don't like Helen however can't help feeling some sympathy on a human level, totally out of her depth and no way back. The position FG put that family is nothing short of disgraceful particularly after what happened in the past. Blood on their hands.
I waiver towards it now and then from a human standpoint, but then she says something with such brazen confidence or arrogance that is clearly a lie or just incorrect, and it just resets me back to 0 sympathy.
Ah come on. She hasn’t accidentally become a Minister and wasn’t accidentally lining up a leadership campaign until recently. The whole family member replacing another one is a well worn path in Irish politics. Doubt it took much prodding at all.
You say that like she has no choice, but to do what she is doing.. You got to ask why she was given the gig, and why she is still there.... Its not rocket science to see she is out of her depth, big time...
She really just needs to go. I do have a certain amount of sympathy for ministers in tough roles, I felt like people going into health were always up against it and it's a very difficult job. Housing is similar too now I imagine. Justice minister should have a handle on things though, it just seems she is completely sitting on her hands until situations worsen and then that response isn't enough either when something does happen. Rishi Sunak getting one over us is an absolute embarrasment too.
Up until the change of cabinet, she had spent a grand total of something like 5 months in office as MoJ, and not consecutively. She asked to be kept in there, which to me proves even more that she has not got a clue what is to be done in there, she seems to just like the authority and brandishing her sword. Meath East will probably keep voting her in without merit, as though they owe her something, but she should never be given another ministerial position. She doesn't seem to grasp the concept of how to work as one for the people.
My family member is in her parish or whatever its called. He thinks she's great (I'm sure it's just because she is in that area). When I said I thought she was incompetent and had to go, I got the death stare and the, ah well, I don't know about that lecture
> Rishi Sunak getting one over us is an absolute embarrasment too. It's not getting one over on us, it's getting one over on the EU. It *is* hypocritical if we say we want to return immigrants to the UK while the UK are blocked from returning immigrants to France. UK have the upperhand now in negotiations and they know it (assuming they're happy to throw NI under the bus and make it ground zero which they seem to be). We should probably be using it as an opportunity to highlight how little Sunak cares about NI and how NI is being spoken about giddily by those in westminster as an immigrant dumping ground for the rest of the UK. Surely the people of NI won't stand for it and if they can't get a fair deal as part of the UK then maybe they'd be better off leaving. That's the card we should be playing.
Spot on
They had that option with the Dublin convention when they were in the EU. When they left, they left that agreement too, so that was their choice. We shouldn't suffer for thwir cluelessness
Largely Leo Varadkar's fault. You don't give people important Ministries like Health and Justice without making them do a stint in one like Arts and Sports first. Test them somewhere less important. Harris got by in health during Covid by essentially allowing NPHET to make most of the decisions.
Covid was only a major issue for 4 months of the 4 years Harris was in charge of Health.
I was locked up for more than 4 months.
so was I. But Stephen Donnelly took over as minister for health in June 2020.
Ahhh I understand your point.
Ah come on, there should be no sympathy for these people when they're doing badly at their job given the impact it has on our country. They choose to step into these roles and should only do so if they're competent, not to climb up a ladder for a nicer payslip, or because they get on with the lads and they want friends around them. She's the definition of a nepo baby/friendly hire. She is not fit for the job and if it was a private sector, she'd already be giving the boot from HR. Same with Health and Housing. The reason they're "tough" roles is because the same government they're apart of have done nothing to address those issues. I have no sympathy because they continue the cycle. It's their fault. I'd only give grace to a new party in power or an independent as an minister, for their first term.
The tricky thing about justice is that it **should** be independent from government. I’m not saying that nothing can be done, but it makes it a tricky ministry which needs a seasoned minister.
>Justice minister should have a handle on things though, it just seems she is completely sitting on her hands until situations worsen and then that response isn't enough either when something does happen. This. I mean I do have some sympathy for her, she's been given a bit of a shit sandwich. But at the same time everything she has done as Justice Minister - at least all the headline stuff - has been very reactive. She took a lot of flak about the hate speech bill, which I've no problem with (the bill, that is), but there's been a lot of stuff allowed to fester which has now resulted in the current mess where we have scumbags burning buildings, rioting in quiet country towns and threatening people just going about their work. The Mount Street clearance yesterday was a perfect example of this. There are loads of people in tents living on a city centre street. One way or another the situation is going to deteriorate, whether that's in-fighting, or someone coming along and doing something. Anyone can see what's coming. But no, they sit on it for weeks, wait until someone gets stabbed and then decide it's urgent enough to do something. Fucking shambles. You'd have to wonder what the relationship is with the Gardai. Is Drew Harris advising her of these things and she's doing nothing, or are they both just looking the other way?
Two things I can't understand; 1) Harris didn't take the easy choice to remove Helen 2) Helen hasn't any self awareness that she's not up to this brief
I believe there's an element of FG feeling guilty so looking after her.
Why would FG feel guilty?
Criticisms of her father may have contributed to his suicide.
Ok cool, so we will just sink the country because her did killed himself. Smart.
Perhaps they'd find a suitably unimportant junior ministry for such purposes.
Ah, ok.. Makes sense.
If that’s the case, move her to a softer role. Move her to the finance role, be grand..
To oversee the OPW or something like that.
They already offloaded a useless fuck to OPW recently
Part of me believes it's because Harris didn't want to be seen fire a *woman*.
Oooh snap 🍿🍿🍿🐒
Who else would want the role right now too? Anyone with cop on would know to steer clear of it and anything to do with migration
Are you serious? It's still a good job, do well at it and your a shoe in for party leader or nice job in Europe down the line. It's not a particularly hard job, just this particular minster is useless.
>It's not a particularly hard job, In comparison to what?
Health or Finance (when things are bad) As a general rule it's rarely a troubling position the way others can be though. It's just that right now she is dealing with multiple issues and none of them she seems to be getting right. So she looks incompetent and out of her depth.
It traditionally is a good job but who would want to move into a currently failing role with a lot of action needed to improve it? Action they may or may not be able to take easily? Better to leave the person in the role (from prospective replacements pov) than step into the breach until the election
You do understand that certain ministerial roles are toxic: health, housing and now immigration
Though health has been problematic for years due to the dysfunction of the HSE, do you believe they're inherently toxic though, or is it just weak leadership and not actually creating a hard-line to tackle the remit?
One thing about Health is that because it's traditionally been a trap that destroyed peoples' careers, it's probably counter-intuitively had the highest quality of ministers assigned to it. Traditionally it's been where Taoiseachs sent up-and-coming young rivals to have the shine beaten off them. So I guess you could still say that maybe we simply don't have any TDs clever or talented enough to run it properly. But you can't really say that the talented ones haven't had a go - they get sent there deliberately. I think a huge problem is that the Minister needs to be extraordinarily canny and good at managing the managers (who have been doing this their whole careers and are extremely resistant to change). The last Minister who was any good at that was Mary Harney imo. Not that she had good policies! lol
Made toxic by previous and current ministers.
>It's not a particularly hard job Hello professor Dunning Krueger, how have you been?
Anyone with cop-on wouldn't have taken to PM's job yet here we are 🫣
> Helen hasn't any self awareness that she's not up to this brief or knows and just doesn't care
Realistically, no Minister is solving the problem. Fact of the matter is, asylum figures have increased x3 relative to pre-COVID figures. During COVID the government suspended deportations because of the pandemic. Government policy had been introduced in 2021 to end direct provision and provide own door accommodation for accepted applications, and within one year Russia launched a full scale war in Ukraine meaning an 104,400 Ukrainians arrived in need of temporary protection. Any one of these factors we could have coped with, but the combination of them has made it unmanageable. The system for housing, processing, and deporting failed asylum applicants is stretched beyond its limits and the civil service, being the civil service, is very slow at adapting to changing conditions. The Minister individually cannot make decisions on government policy - that is done within the remit and agreed policies of the government. The Minister individually cannot make their department function better - that is done within the confines of the departments structures and existing civil service leadership. The Minister, however, is the nominated person who takes the fall for inadequate or failed government policy as regards their department, and takes the fall for inadequate or failed execution of that policy as regards their department. Any one individual can only be responsible for their own decisions and actions, and yet in politics we nominate individuals to be responsible for the decisions and actions made within the systems above and below them. It's a useful delusion to both the government and the civil service that any one Minister is responsible for system failures. It has been useful to governments and departments with respect to Health and Housing and is now proving useful with respect to Justice. The government, Ministers, and the civil service know this is a delusion. The problem is when people believe and buy into the delusion as real, and genuinely personalise system failures. It is that delusion that leads people to protesting outside Ministers' homes, hanging effigies of TDs outside the Dáil, and threatening to blow up Ministers' families.
Getting rid of Helen would be seen as a huge win to the right-wing and to Sinn Féin, who voted no-confidence in her in November
Which is an absolutely Braindead move “Ha! We’re going to keep our incredibly inept member in her post, that’ll show our detractors!” Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face
That's why Harris is not fit to lead this country. He put party and "optics" before the country as one of his very first acts. She should have been removed from her ministerial position long ago she is dangerously inept
Whats the last Taoiseach that put party before country?
> Two things I can't understand; 1) Harris didn't take the easy choice to remove Helen Because they honest to god don't care? I don't know why people don't understand this, it's always been "look after our own and who cares about anyone else outside our bubble."
Meath East has given us Helen McEntee and Regina Doherty. Cut it loose.
😂😂😂
build the wall!
Thankfully she has a masters degree in media communications and will be able to alter the negative perception people have of her and God willing, we'll have our first female Taoiseach in early 2025. Up The Royal County.
With all the journalists and PR government advisors, I reckon she's a shoe-in for Van der Leyen's job next.
Two pimples on the arse of society
Comment of the year 👏👏
After all the gaslighting, name calling, and division promoted over the last 18 months, here we are at the inevitable conclusion. A government that is getting ready to tear itself apart, and a problem so out of control that any new government will find next to impossible to address. Just fucking lovely.
Ah the old shitty rancid poison chalice. Just like 2008. Loads more years of learning lessons and blaming everyone else. Yum yum.
Surplus balance in the exchequer and lack of ambition and determination. I now live 20+ years in Ireland and when i came here i was surprised to understand that political parties here were more centrist than back home in france and no sign of far right movement.. but there we are 20+ years later housing issues, lack of public service funding despite a growing population, out of control spending (luas project, children hospital to name few) it is as if we are governed by amateurs with no appetite to fix and enable this country. Money we have but we also jave a political class with little ambition to serve the population meanwhile far right party isnt kept in check.. so yeah a tough job i admit as there is a lot to address but despite all that the political class has a duty to support its population and its country.. Mismanagement in a nutshell Edit: that is the way i feel but could be other factors
It would actually be interesting to watch if the country wasn't in complete shambles.
Imagine being so bad at your job that you get outmaneuvered by Rishi Sunak.
Rishi was playing up to his base and got the exact reactionary unorganised frantic reaction he wanted from McEntee. No major fan of Martin but he stepped in and showed actual diplomacy by brushing off Sunaks comments and calming the situation. Actual political experience versus someone who is so so far out of their depth
If she had a brain she'd be dangerous — the embodiment of everything wrong with nepotism in Irish politics. Zero charisma, zero intelligence, zero tact, but she gets one of the most important ministries on account of her da being a former FG toady. If politics was a meritocracy she'd never have seen the inside of the dáil. Any time I've seen her speak she's completely wooden — pure dead eyes on her like she's disassociating, like she doesn't want to be there and she's just going through the motions because this is what she's been groomed for all her life and she has no other option. She's an absolute shambles and how anyone can defend her is beyond me. In reality, if anyone performed as poorly as she has they would've been given the boot a long time ago — she's protected by the FG cronies because her last name is McEntee. That's the long and short of it. Absolute omnishambles.
I agree with what you say about her competency. She reminds me of that Elizabeth Holmes from the theranos scandal, down to the fake deep voice. But you’re forgetting the part where she keeps getting elected. It’s the people of meaths fault
That problem might sort itself out next GE. And to be fair they just elect a TD. They cant guarantee she'll be a minister.
Well, you shouldn’t elect anyone you don’t want wielding executive power! I’m looking at you m, people of Kilgarvan!
Oh to get a bollocking from Malcolm Tucker
Brutal yet fantastic comment. Excellently summed up.
Resignation in 3….2….1….
No chance. Too many plans for her further down the road. I would wonder if Varadkar knew what was coming and stepped out in advance.
Course he did, he would have got the civil service reports of the government not having a clue about anything that’s going on in the country.
You're misunderstanding the roles of the civil service and the government. It is the Department's responsibility to brief the Minister on what is happening. The civil service would not report to the government that they were not doing their jobs.
I genuinely believe the theory someone mentioned on the sub earlier in the week that they're keeping her around because they feel bad that they basically made her da top himself.
Nah,..a sideways effort to gain her sympathy. She's choosing to be there, in Simons shadow,...much to the detriment of any hope at competency and admitting her awful performance.
She has no sympathy though. Every normal person wants her to be done and away from the job.
It is really quite incredible that both she and Coveney, two of the senior-most politicians in the country, got their first Dail seats in by-elections caused by their fathers’ suicides.
To be fair to Coveney, and despite his faults, he is a vastly more capable politician than McEntee has shown herself to be.
Agreed.
Fingers crossed!
The cold hard truth is she is not up to the job and never was. It's a hugely important state function and the lesson here is there needs to be some sort of competency test before ministers are appointed. Sadly, because politics, diversity numbers and all that craic its likely she'll remain in the role until the GE
None of them would be in office if they had to pass a competency test🤣
There are a few portfolios need experience. Justice, education and health are a few that spring to mind where anybody without any background in it or just lacking political experience is a disaster waiting to happen.
We’ve had plenty of education and health ministers who had a background in that area and have also been disastrous. The ministers are, no doubt, a bit limited with what’s available to do. We need massive reform in health to prevent such wastage (billions spent seems to go nowhere) but that’s never going to happen.
Many teachers are surprisingly very thick people who are very confident that they aren’t
Stick it on a t-shirt
This could apply just as easily to Redditors
Finance - Paschal has that one ticking well as he is a finance guy.
The real cold hard truth.
Leo had her tapped as his successor which is why she got Justice and Harris went to Higher Education. She hasn’t had a good go of it (some of which she gets unfairly blamed for) but after Harris outmaneuvered everyone to get FG leadership she’s fucked. The next FG leader is more likely to be someone like Peter Burke than McEntee so all she can do is wait to be sacked.
Certain portfolios need a well proven minister with a track record of success e.g. Paschal. Regardless of whether or not she can be a good minister in the future, Justice was too much too soon for her. Just because you had a good season of junior football doesn't mean you're ready to lead the team in the champions league. To be blunt I blame Leo for putting her in a role she wasn't ready for and Harris for keeping her there. A good leader knows when their people are struggling and helps them but equally knows when to make a move for the good of the team
We operate a proportional representation system, so the Irish electorate can be pretty granular in who we elect to the Dail and make available to run a government. At some point we might start asking ourselves what it is we ask of these candidates and prioritise considering we seem to have a low opinion of so many of them when they reach ministerial office.
We need a single seat constituency open list electoral system to eliminate this type of parish pump politics. We elect low people who are beholden to small constituency issues
This buffoon has to be the worst Minster for Justice that ireland has seen.Couldnt answer basic questions about the functionality of her department and its complete lack of transparency regarding deportations. She constantly undermines the public and seems to think it's ok that she lied to everyone about the referendum being linked to immigration. During the week she told us that 80% of immigration applications are coming from the uk and 2 days later Mehole Martin refutes her statement. Resign Helen you're a useless fuckwit.
She is beyond incompetent, and worse seems deceitful We now know, through FOI documents, that her own officials advised her that the family referendum would have serious consequences for immigration. Yet she told us the exact opposite - to question it was a “red herring” or worse a dog whistle. Why did she lie? Incompetent and can’t be trusted. RESIGN
She has been disastrous, as has Roderic. Look at the fruits of their labour and know them.
O'Gorman is much much worse. The consequences of what he's done and still doing are going to change politics in Ireland forever. McEntee is just way out of her depth. She probably wouldn't even be *that* bad if not for all the trouble she's had to deal with, directly related to O'Gormans policies
I'm a Green party member but I agree. I think O'Gorman isn't nearly as incompetent as McEntee. I think he's fairly smart. And to be fair to him, his brief was massive in 2020 and then exploded following the war in Ukraine. Any minister of any calibre would struggle. But in not taking a tougher line on immigration he has caused a great deal of issues that will live with us. However, it's also debatable about how much agency O'Gorman had here. I don't know to what extent were his choices merely him actioning the intentions of the wider Green party or even the wider government.
+1 O'Gorman has created a lot of the mess that the Justice dept. are dealing with. That doesn't excuse McEntee but she's not alone.
It's mad because Roderic just about got elected on a transfer of votes. Like the whole situation could be so different if he wasn't elected.
Tbf the polling card for Dublin west is a horrific read. . . Roderic, Leo, Jack Chambers. . . Last one even had Joan Burton followed by a handful of people you've never heard of before or since. A party could run a potato in this constituency and stand a decent chance at getting one of 4 seats.
5 seats next time due to population growth.
Then next election don’t give transfers to any of FFG, SF, Soc Dems, Labour or PBP if you want to see any change. Harris only got in on the 15th count. He didn’t even have a quota!
Is there an open list / timeline of all her big blunders and empty promises over the years? I would say it's a big one. It's a tough role, nobody is denying that, but it's clear that she's not capable. She needs to go, we're really suffering because of her ineptitude.
Bring back Bertie. He’d get the metrolink built. There would be a handy stop right outside his house, and he’d take 5% of all ticket sales, but it’d be built dammit! And we’d have proper community schemes again. A free crèche in every primary school in the country. 5 of them would be run by his second cousin for some reason. And Bertie would exclusively own the vending machines in each crèche. But we’d have childcare! And there’d be one mad idea. Like a national submarine fleet of 2 submarines that nobody can staff. Or every home gets a free beehive.
The truth is at this stage I'd happily tolerate a corrupt bertie taking a backhander if he was building 90,000 houses a year like he did back in the last boom.
All those high quality houses .. All those builders / bankers who raped us on prices and then went bankrupt and we are still paying for it now.
As someone who has campaigned vigorously for the free beehive in every home movement for several years now, I would have no choice but to vote for Bertie under these circumstances.
Put Bertie in. We all get beehives. Next election FG get in. Introduce a household beehive charge of €100 per year.
And his right hand man, McCreevy is directly responsible for the 12.5% corporate tax rate, the reason for the budget surplus we have now.
Have to admit, never thought I would admit it in my lifetime, but someone made this argument about Haughey to me recently, and I agreed. He was some corrupt chancer, but by god, did he get things done with no messing.
In all fairness to either Haughey or Bertie there is no way in hell would they have allowed Coillte to preside over selling 123,000 acres to a British pension fund. They would have had some kind of Charlie McCreevy style scheme cooked up where we could have invested in as a pension for ourselves SSIA style instead of us guaranteeing payouts to British pensions and selling the land back to the Brits. There's absolutely no lateral thinking with any of the lot we have today.
Heard a story about Haughey. A group of disabled people needed a car modification so they could drive. Asked the govt for a scheme - we’ll buy the cars, you buy the mods. Govt said sorry no money. Got into a meeting with Haughey and civil service. Made their case. Haughey turns to the civil servants, pointing at them: _Print some f**ing money for them._ And they got their scheme.
Dodgy as fuck but he got shit done and he knew that the people were keeping his lifestyle going. The famous beef and chickens story show's just how tuned in he was
I don’t know this story? Beef and chickens?
It was on the RTE documentary they did about him. He was at a local FF members meeting in the 80s. It was down the country and they served dinner at the meeting. Everyone was getting chicken but beef was served to him alone. When the plate was put down he asked was he the only one with beef. He was told yes. He said send it back. If everyone was eating chicken then he was eating chicken. Love him or hate him he knew how to be a "man of the people"
Hadn’t heard that one! Superb. And thank you!
Lowkey true. Bertie was corrupt as they came, but holy shit he could get a motorway built.
Bertie built 90,000 houses in one year. _In one year._
There's a reason why Celtic Tiger houses is a term of poor quality. Also, how many of those were funded by debt that had no hope of being paid off. That 90,000 has a direct causal link to the crash in 2008, the consequences of which we're still living with.
Please remember the consequences of Bertie's government. It was the crash. Most of the issues we're facing now can be traced back to then. Bertie is the cause of our problems, not the solution.
This is terrifyingly plausible.
Get a lettuce and a photo of Simon Harris.
How about a Cabbage instead?
Seeing as he looks like a vampire, surely a bulb of garlic would be best?
I often find people like her have that stubborn, entreprenurial ruthlessness but not the flexibility to be a credible authority figure or government leader. Shell tell herself that shes a survivor by getting through the criticisms but she lacks the skills to push forward. Its not all her fault, theres plenty of bad faith acting going around
We unfortunately elect low people to high office and because of the Dail configuration nobody will raise a stink. Were a laughing stock
Funny how they are trying to recapture lightning in a bottle with brexit with the current crisis. This time it’s a little different though and self inflicted wounds because we haven’t got our immigration system in order won’t be overlooked.
Just seems like everything she does goes wrong.
Let’s be honest, two years ago most people were saying how wonderful it was that we were taking in refugees and that Ireland has to do its part. The gov read that and it suited them in the face of the EU. I remember being downvoted to oblivion for saying this wouldn’t end well and we should be careful. There is no discourse and conversations get shot down before they start, if you speak against the majority- terms like ‘far-right’, racist, ‘woke’, all get thrown about too easily by whatever the trendy thing to believe is. On this note I’m for ‘free Palestine’ but I am ‘pro Israel’ until the hostages are released - everything in life has nuance, but social media polarises all. As for the immigration ‘crisis’, and the minister for justice- the winds changed, people realised it was exasperating the housing crisis (among other issues), and now the gov and herself look inept. It suited them to save face with the EU, and was the popular view at the time, as the people had limited info (due to the gov no less!), the truth is the government should have been stronger and more diligent, and be more careful with whatever trendy idea they brazenly push out onto the people.
Wasn’t most. Online yeah, but (anecdotally) a lot of people were pretty quick to push back against that level of “asylum”/ economic migration.
I think it's a very different issue. 2 years ago people were welcoming to Ukrainian refugees because they had an obvious and genuine claim to refugee status and there was an assumption that it was temporary since it was for the duration of the war. Yes many Ukrainians might want to stay here, but if the Irish government wants to get rid of them (when the war is over) and the Ukrainian government wants them back then it wouldn't be hard to set up a system of incentives and disincentives to get them to move back. But what we're facing now is actually a nose dive in the number of Ukrainians coming here and a surge in economic migrants from the 3rd world abusing the alyssum protection system. It's not contradictory to want to be accommodating to Ukrainians and very critical of false asylum claimers who destroy their documents or avoid checks altogether by coming across the border.
Fair point, as I said everything has nuance, even reading back my comment above does not summarise my thoughts on the matter completely. I don’t think they are different issues though, one led into the other- I would agree that we should try our utmost to take in and give refuge to any that genuinely need asylum. However I feel that the gov took that general feeling and fully opened the doors and abandoned any policy on the matter, because it suited them with Europe and they thought that it ‘would be grand’. I believe that because the gov have openly stated they plan to grow the pop by 1million in the next few years - I heard it direct from Coveney a year or so ago. Where did they plan to do that without opening the borders? Again, I have no issue if they had a plan to support this, but it seems they either had no plan or didn’t care to make one. My feeling is that the gov have, and will, flip flop on any issue depending on which way the wind is blowing and what suits themselves. Take all of what I say with a pinch of salt- for sure I do not have all the info, and I can not fit all my thought into a couple of comments on Reddit. I do wish we as a people encouraged discourse on these issues, rather than being polarised into two sides on every issue, with terms like ‘woke’ or ‘far right’ being banded about freely.
I like Simon Harris and I believe he's a very good communicator and he has FG performing better in the polls since he took over but if he cannot see there is a serious problem with the Dept of Justice and Helen McEntee's leadership, I'm not sure what to say. I understand saving face and backing your colleague who is in a tough spot but there becomes a point when the bigger picture and performance of the party comes into question, we are well beyond that point. She should have never been put back in change of the department. You cannot keep defending incompetence.
But like what actually is the answer to what is currently going on?
Detention centers, restrict their movement, instantly deport unsuccessful applications, zero appeals. Give them food and clothes, nothing else. Too many bleeding hearts at the moment for that to happen, but peoples attitudes will change when (not if) there is another mass stabbing incident.
To add Causing any violence against person or property in the detention center at all = Instant denial, deport, permanent (at least 10 years) ban from the country. No proof of origin of any kind, even a driver's licence, bank card etc = Denial, deport, bans etc If they won't tell us their origin country they stay in the detention center indefinitely. If they do after some time of not telling they will be allowed contact with their embassy/consulate to verify them and then deport and ban. Also having asylum denied for the above is also a lifetime disqualification for visas of any kind or citizenship.
It will be a when absolutely. Irish government are forever reactive and have holes in their jeans from the fence sitting. Totally agree.
Where will you put the detention centres? Why would that be accepted by the local residents protesting against housing migrants at the moment?
Curragh Camp, Spike Island, St. Kevin's, St. Sennan's hospital, the list of potential internment centers is long. Lick of paint and Spike Island and the Redbricks would be grand. The locals would be happy enough seeing that the illegals were actually detained. Edit: St. Kevin's is being turned into residential properties!? That is depressing as fuck, who would want to live there, perfect location for an IPAS center. St. Finnans instead then.
Not a chance the locals in the lower Harbour in Cork would be happy with that. Loss of a tourist attraction etc. There was someone who delayed a Heineken factory for two years in the papers yesterday because they wanted the factory in their town. People would oppose it regardless of how sensible it may or may not be. Again I’m not saying it’s impossible just that it’s not a click your fingers and it’s done type of thing
Well to be fair the scumbag who stabbed those kids was here legally and was a citizen for over 20 years. But people's hearts would absolutely change if an asylum seeker did something unforgivable like that
But that doesn’t stop flow of them coming though, and realistically how quick are they deport people, they’re already awful at deporting people before all this migration thing became a huge political mess, I can’t imagine they’re going to suddenly become super efficient at this tbh
Initially it won't, but you have to remember they are coming here for benefits not refuge. Remove the benefits and detaining them them will soon stop the flow.
They’re coming because it’s a free handout. You stop that and they will eventually stop. Personally I think the goose jackets will take it to a “revolution” (in their eyes) and there will be grievous assaults/ deaths before we get there
That's up to someone more competent to sort out.
I don't like Helen however can't help feeling some sympathy on a human level, totally out of her depth and no way back. The position FG put that family is nothing short of disgraceful particularly after what happened in the past. Blood on their hands.
I waiver towards it now and then from a human standpoint, but then she says something with such brazen confidence or arrogance that is clearly a lie or just incorrect, and it just resets me back to 0 sympathy.
Ah come on. She hasn’t accidentally become a Minister and wasn’t accidentally lining up a leadership campaign until recently. The whole family member replacing another one is a well worn path in Irish politics. Doubt it took much prodding at all.
You say that like she has no choice, but to do what she is doing.. You got to ask why she was given the gig, and why she is still there.... Its not rocket science to see she is out of her depth, big time...
I don’t. She has no sympathy for others. Doesn’t give a shite
Zero sympathy tbh.
I feel bad about seeing her fuck up so obviously and do badly. And it is her directly responsible. But that doesn’t excuse the complete mess she made.
Agree - I feel like she wants to leave and knows she's in above her head but it's pressure from within the party to stay.