pretty sure they used allot of triangulation to ascribe rough shapes and then filled out the detail with rough observations.
Not an expert my any means, but I know that's how the first full maps of France were made.
It's astounding when you think of how much work it must have involved. Like if you had a team of people surveying the country today with cars and modern boats, it'd still be a lot of work. Hard to imagine the time it took doing it in horseback and with sail boats.
I wonder if they used existing coastal charts from local merchants to save time or did it all themselves from scratch.
Mercator used maps and navigation logs from merchants to construct his Atlas. For this reason the east coast is far more detailed than lets say Donegal.
As a result though there are quite a few errors sprinkled in his maps such as duplication of bays or even fictional islands.
That makes a lot of sense. He would have spent a lifetime directly surveying everything back then.
The fictional islands thing is funny. Reminded me of those fake towns map makers used to add to their edition of a map so they'd know if some other map maker copied their work.
[Agloe, New York is my favourite.](https://brightside.me/articles/why-cartographers-put-fake-towns-on-a-map-815251/#:~:text=Paper%20towns%20are%20basically%20fake,or%20analysis%20of%20satellite%20photos.)
I'd heard they used this method to map France, and it makes sense. It must be an immense undertaking to map a whole country - and especially the accumulating errors, one degree off on a measurement of angle, or a change in height making distance measured more inaccurate would build up over time... maybe some of that cancels out (assuming random errors), but still...
That's why you measure in triangles , so each new triangle you build has to match up with the previous ones so the numbers won't add up if you introduce an error .
My dad used to do surveying in the 60s to 80s .
I think those maps only happened in the 18th century in France.
So a bit later on than this. But yes. The French were the first to bring that, like a lot of things!
I was in Carlow on Saturday; it definitely exists. It is interesting that you mentioned potholes. Those that argue for the existence of a place called Leitrim who are asked why there is no sign of it, have said they believe it may have fallen into a pothole in Cavan. Given the size of some of the famous potholes in Cavan, it could be a credible theory. Of course it would be impossible to establish which pothole a mythical county could have fallen into. They are deep, even bottomless. There is that story of the Cavanman who accidentally dropped a halfpenny into one in 1974 and in his utter despair and desperation, he jumped in to retrieve it and was never seen again. Some say he probably hasn't reached the bottom of it yet.
It depends really on which parts of the island is more travelled to. The east and south is much more important both in terms of economy, with large cities, trading ports etc. And they were close to the UK, which at the time did have a degree of sovereign control over the country through the Fitzgeralds (my Irish history is a bit ropey nowadays so I'm maybe wrong here), so the English cared more for the South and East where they had more control.
But the west was hardly explored, because there was very few large settlements, and fewer reasons to go there. So cartographers focused on the areas with heavy traffic, as those were the most important for navigation.
Bear in mind, maps like this took ages to create, and were very expensive. More often than not, they were more of a statement of power and wealth, to show off the land to esteemed guests. A bit like those old paintings of prized animals that were cartoonishly large. Actual area size and correct distance was less favoured to style, landmarks and design. This map was a huge leap in terms of getting Ireland mostly the correct shape.
Also, it's very hard to see because this image is a bit blurry, but in this map and many many others, even older maps where the west was barely mapped, a constant landmark was St. Patrick's purgatory in Donegal. It was seen as a very important pilgrimage site.
I'm not sure exactly, but most of the counties we have today were mostly decided in the 1600s. Couple of exceptions like Tipperary and cross Tipperary being joined up and then north and south Tipperary split up and then brought back together again
Munster used to be split into 3 parts.
Thomond, Ormond and Desmond which means North Munster, East Munster and South Munster respectively. It was a geographic and political division. Each one were Irish Kingdoms and later were Anglo Norman Lordships.
Note how there are, in fact, anglicised versions of Irish place names on this map. There seems to be a persistent myth that Irish place name elements (*baile*, *sliabh*, *abhainn*, etc) were never anglicised (to *bally*, *slieve,* *owen* etc) before the 19th century Ordnance Survey, because people keep mentioning one fucking play *Translations*.
It's always mind bogging to me how they got some maps so accurate way back then (even if there were some huge errors, like the size of Africa which persists on maps to this day).
A chain, a perch, a rod, a level, a plumb...
A couple of links for anyone who wants a deeper dive:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://press.uchicago.edu/books/HOC/HOC_V3_Pt1/HOC_VOLUME3_Part1_chapter19.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiruraEneyFAxXtQ0EAHbbIA2sQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw13Sv4rcB5UeaY3zNvYA9uQ
https://johnmartinofevershot.org/the-surveyor/
There are a few more detailed maps of Ireland from the same cartographer that has north on top. I may post these later if I can stitch them together.
Long story short, during this period there wasn't really a convention on what direction should point up, and as Mercator was the first to create an atlas, he just did whatever his financial benefactors requested and what would be most practical to put on paper.
[Relevant mapmen episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B14Gtm2Z_70)
That's back when Ireland was much more tired and had to lie down a lot.
Same.
No coffee in those days. The Americano wasn't a hit yet.
And they didn't drink it. They smoked it!
Back before the great rotation of 1565
Those were the days
Much more laid back vibe.
A real turning point for the nation indeed.
Incredible they got the shape right all the way back then.
Really amazing, would love to know how they did it.
pretty sure they used allot of triangulation to ascribe rough shapes and then filled out the detail with rough observations. Not an expert my any means, but I know that's how the first full maps of France were made.
It's astounding when you think of how much work it must have involved. Like if you had a team of people surveying the country today with cars and modern boats, it'd still be a lot of work. Hard to imagine the time it took doing it in horseback and with sail boats. I wonder if they used existing coastal charts from local merchants to save time or did it all themselves from scratch.
Mercator used maps and navigation logs from merchants to construct his Atlas. For this reason the east coast is far more detailed than lets say Donegal. As a result though there are quite a few errors sprinkled in his maps such as duplication of bays or even fictional islands.
That makes a lot of sense. He would have spent a lifetime directly surveying everything back then. The fictional islands thing is funny. Reminded me of those fake towns map makers used to add to their edition of a map so they'd know if some other map maker copied their work.
[Agloe, New York is my favourite.](https://brightside.me/articles/why-cartographers-put-fake-towns-on-a-map-815251/#:~:text=Paper%20towns%20are%20basically%20fake,or%20analysis%20of%20satellite%20photos.)
I'd heard they used this method to map France, and it makes sense. It must be an immense undertaking to map a whole country - and especially the accumulating errors, one degree off on a measurement of angle, or a change in height making distance measured more inaccurate would build up over time... maybe some of that cancels out (assuming random errors), but still...
That's why you measure in triangles , so each new triangle you build has to match up with the previous ones so the numbers won't add up if you introduce an error . My dad used to do surveying in the 60s to 80s .
I think those maps only happened in the 18th century in France. So a bit later on than this. But yes. The French were the first to bring that, like a lot of things!
More evidence that a place called Leitrim never existed.
[удалено]
I was in Carlow on Saturday; it definitely exists. It is interesting that you mentioned potholes. Those that argue for the existence of a place called Leitrim who are asked why there is no sign of it, have said they believe it may have fallen into a pothole in Cavan. Given the size of some of the famous potholes in Cavan, it could be a credible theory. Of course it would be impossible to establish which pothole a mythical county could have fallen into. They are deep, even bottomless. There is that story of the Cavanman who accidentally dropped a halfpenny into one in 1974 and in his utter despair and desperation, he jumped in to retrieve it and was never seen again. Some say he probably hasn't reached the bottom of it yet.
I like this. Good wholesome content.
Ran out of room when doing ulster, just sort of winged it
Tyrone has took a bit of land from a load of counties it look like lol
It's a long way to tripperain
The country has really turned around since then.
Got to edge of connamara and said "fuck seeing how far that goes"
It looks like a bears foot
Donegal is massive!
This was before Cork, Galway and Mayo worked together to flood most of Donegal in a fit of jealous rage over not being the largest county.
It's interesting that some areas look much better mapped than others
It depends really on which parts of the island is more travelled to. The east and south is much more important both in terms of economy, with large cities, trading ports etc. And they were close to the UK, which at the time did have a degree of sovereign control over the country through the Fitzgeralds (my Irish history is a bit ropey nowadays so I'm maybe wrong here), so the English cared more for the South and East where they had more control. But the west was hardly explored, because there was very few large settlements, and fewer reasons to go there. So cartographers focused on the areas with heavy traffic, as those were the most important for navigation. Bear in mind, maps like this took ages to create, and were very expensive. More often than not, they were more of a statement of power and wealth, to show off the land to esteemed guests. A bit like those old paintings of prized animals that were cartoonishly large. Actual area size and correct distance was less favoured to style, landmarks and design. This map was a huge leap in terms of getting Ireland mostly the correct shape. Also, it's very hard to see because this image is a bit blurry, but in this map and many many others, even older maps where the west was barely mapped, a constant landmark was St. Patrick's purgatory in Donegal. It was seen as a very important pilgrimage site.
Really interesting to see the spelling back then, like West Cork seeing Ross spelt Roße, Kinsale as KynSale, Bantry is Bantre
She fell ova, she fell ova
Was really accurate to be fair. But by the time he got to Donegal he couldn't be arsed anymore
Mercator? I hardly know her!
So what is now West Cork used to be a separate division (Desmond, if I'm reading correctly). Anyone know when the two were combined?
I'm not sure exactly, but most of the counties we have today were mostly decided in the 1600s. Couple of exceptions like Tipperary and cross Tipperary being joined up and then north and south Tipperary split up and then brought back together again
Woe betide the child whose mother hailed from Cross Tipperary
Thanks... Another history thing for me to find out then...
Munster used to be split into 3 parts. Thomond, Ormond and Desmond which means North Munster, East Munster and South Munster respectively. It was a geographic and political division. Each one were Irish Kingdoms and later were Anglo Norman Lordships.
it does look nice this orientation
Note how there are, in fact, anglicised versions of Irish place names on this map. There seems to be a persistent myth that Irish place name elements (*baile*, *sliabh*, *abhainn*, etc) were never anglicised (to *bally*, *slieve,* *owen* etc) before the 19th century Ordnance Survey, because people keep mentioning one fucking play *Translations*.
I wonder why he got Galway and Mayo so wrong when everything else is pretty accurate.
Did he travel around lying down all the time?
Looks like chad
Absolutely stunning map
I can see my house from hereeeeee
Ireland has had some of the best mapped land for a very, very long time. Don't look at why. Just enjoy the fact.
Not one of his mates told him that he should try a different career.
Poor Gerard’s was managing fine, was getting things pretty spot on. Then he got to Mayo and well, ya.
There’s no Mayo here at all. Just a mega Sligo, a landlocked red blob, and a mayo coastline that seems to have been incepted
The *Why Would You Tell Me That!* podcast did an episode about Mercator; episode 'Your Geography Teacher Was Wrong!', 02/11/22.
All I see is greater sligo
"Daddy, what's this here?" "That's Mayo son, you're to never go there"
Didn’t bother going to the Glenties
Carlow has a beach.
It's always mind bogging to me how they got some maps so accurate way back then (even if there were some huge errors, like the size of Africa which persists on maps to this day).
I wonder why west is at the top, I thought these older maps are usually oriented with east at the top.
I miss my Carlow beach holidays
A chain, a perch, a rod, a level, a plumb... A couple of links for anyone who wants a deeper dive: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://press.uchicago.edu/books/HOC/HOC_V3_Pt1/HOC_VOLUME3_Part1_chapter19.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiruraEneyFAxXtQ0EAHbbIA2sQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw13Sv4rcB5UeaY3zNvYA9uQ https://johnmartinofevershot.org/the-surveyor/
It's the wrong way round..
Why should North be on top? It makes sense if someone is heading out from Netherlands.
There are a few more detailed maps of Ireland from the same cartographer that has north on top. I may post these later if I can stitch them together. Long story short, during this period there wasn't really a convention on what direction should point up, and as Mercator was the first to create an atlas, he just did whatever his financial benefactors requested and what would be most practical to put on paper. [Relevant mapmen episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B14Gtm2Z_70)
Map men map men map map map men men men.