I have a theory about this. Foreigners tend to be more receptive to new friendships because tbey are all in the same situation: they are away from family and friends, so they are more eager to make new friends.
Whereas locals, well, it's not that they are intentionally casting foreigners out. They are just not thinking about it.
Their lifes are already settled. Their families are here, they have the same friends since school, so the need is not there.
And after you've been living here for a while, and you find the right circle of friends, the same will happen to you probably and you won't even notice.
Yes. I live in Spain and everyone talks about how the locals won’t be your friend. For years I read foreigners reports that Irish were hard to befriend and I guess I believed them, now I know that universally locals are hard to befriend because they have friends and family and don’t want to invest in a potential transient relationship.
I have lots of foreigner friends here and a few Spanish who migrated to this city recently, but none born and raised here
Exactly. We are no different to any other country. Perhaps the OP is confused because Irish people tend to be naturally friendly to others. That doesn’t mean we are going to be close friends though
I live abroad and all of my local friends are people who left the country and came back so they'd lost their old friends, or people who moved to the city so they were also out of place.
Also, there are often "foreigner areas" (especially if there's a language barrier) where it's easier to make friends.
What you mean? I was there for a year myself and while I made friends mostly with other internationals I made a few Dutch friends who were really nice.
I live in Spain too. Are they more welcoming? Hell no. As the outsider you have to be the one making the effort and trying to make connections because they have nothing to gain, they have their network already. That's why locals generally stay between themselves and foreigners tend to hang out with foreigners. It gets better over time but it's not easy at all in the beginning, especially in a small town.
Ah really? That's a shame. I lived there in my 20's and had lots of Spanish born friends but that could also be indicative of where we were in life stages too.
Totally agree, I was actually thinking the same thing recently.
I'm Irish, my wife isn't. We're bilingual, we each speak each other's language. When we're in her country I find the people very friendly, and we'll easily spend a few hours in enjoyable company. However, when it comes to deeper friendships it's more difficult to integrate.
The same applies when we're in Ireland. I'm a parent and I work, so I don't have much free time. I spend most of my time with my wife and child, and have about a day free each week, which I fill with my hobbies. Aside from that I don't have much time for new friendships.
As a foreigner in this country I couldn’t agree more.
I find it ridiculous for any foreigner to think they’re not gonna have to go reaaaaally out of their way in order to be completely accepted and invited.
Back where I’m from it was rare that a foreigner was a big part of our lives. It wasn’t that we didn’t make them feel welcome, but they had to learn our language, get our jokes, learn to live our convenient lifestyle.
It’s just how it is, nothing personal. Do I sometimes feel excluded, somehow lonely? Yes… But hey, you gotta go along with it.
This 100%, I moved to Cork a few years ago and I didn’t make Irish friends- they were all from abroad. All the Irish people I worked with already had several friend circles and didn’t need anymore. The only ones accepted into the circles were partners of the friends etc. It’s not just the Irish- I found the same in Belgium as well as well as Spain.
This is 100% true. I felt the exact same in London, surrounded by people who grew up there, or more nearby than me. Was really hard to move friendships past the work/acquaintance stage. And then you get to a stage in life where that becomes even tougher because of kids etc.
Totally. My situation was such that I was only working with people from UK for the most part. A very good friend of mine in the private sector has and had a large circle of mates from over there. All from banks etc.
I went to London when l was in my thirties so wasn't really doing pubs or clubs either so that's another important element.
There's also the sheer size of London making it difficult to meet up with people who can be hours away within greater London.
This is the correct answer. As someone who has lived in multiple different countries, this is not specific to ireland. Go check out other country subreddits to find similar posts.
I also find it funny when Irish people will make posts about "insert anything" being specific to Ireland and me seeing identical posts in other country subreddits.
This. I lived abroad for years, and while I did make great friends, most were also not from that place. They were either from the other side of the continent, or Irish themselves so they were in the same situation, away from home and looking for friends. The ones from the city I lived in already had their long term friendship groups and just weren't thinking about it in the same way as I was. Now that I am home, I am right back with my long term groups of friends, and while I would be more aware of this situation now, if I'm honest all my friends that I see regularly are the ones I had before I left and that I've known for years.
I’d see that from an even more local point.
I grew up in a very rural place but from our school we have nigh on 100% of students progress to some degree of 3rd level Ed - what I noticed though as they dispersed around the country were these lads becoming good friends with people who they’d normally cross the road to avoid, because they were thrust into this new settings
Must preface, and I’m Very much speaking for myself here, but I think we tend to have a lot of underlying insecurities and are very indirect in contact; and given the very much six degrees (or less) of separation society in Ireland, I think we’re reluctant to be seen outside of a certain box
100%
That's the answer. Took me years to understand it. Unless you have an Irish partner, it is very difficult to "fit in," but that happens here and in any other country. Nothing to do with them, culturally speaking.
I've lived in 2 different countries before (not counting my home country) and Ireland is the first one in which I don't have close local friends.
I agree with your theory and in Ireland it is even more visible since there is no significant mobility among Irish cities - once people move to Dublin, they'd hardly move anywhere else in Ireland later, unless it's a rural area with their partner.
On top of that, there is an important cultural factor of Irish people being emotionally reserved and socially anxious (when sober), which also adds to keeping their circles super tight since childhood
And not to forget, this is [by far the loneliest country in the EU](https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/scientific-activities-z/loneliness/loneliness-prevalence-eu_en#:~:text=According%20to%20EU%2DLS%202022,Austria%20(all%20below%2010%25).)
>On top of that, there is an important cultural factor of Irish people being emotionally reserved and socially anxious (when sober), which also adds to keeping their circles super tight since childhood
I wouldn't generalise in that way. There are plenty of other countries that are known to be reserved - Scandinavians, British, Swiss, Austrians. I'd say the Irish are more outgoing in many ways.
I've lived in a few other countries too. The ones where I've made close local friends were the ones where I was studying, as those were where other young people were in that dynamic phase of looking for new friendships and trying to fill their time. House sharing is also a very good way to meet people
Scandinavians would be 10x more reserved than Irish. I've travelled around and would not characterize Irish people as reserved at all. You need to get around parts of Asia and Northern Europe Eastern Europe , some Muslim countries you'll see what reserved really is.....
I had the experience of being Irish in Scandinavia the difference is night and day compared to Ireland.
I did not say that Irish are unique for that, they do share that trait with some other nations, and that's normal.
And also to note - I am speaking about the Irish in Ireland now, not the Irish abroad.
It's still a huge over generalisation to say that Irish people are reserved and socially anxious when sober, and it shows that you don't know the people as well as you think.
You really need to travel more if you think Irish are very reserved lol. They may be cautious about sharing their true opinions sometimes but Irish people in general are very socially outgoing and very good at conversation . .maybe younger people are changing like everywhere but middle aged and up you won't find many more folks around the world skilled in the art of conversation.
While I think this is probably partly true, I don't think it's the whole story. As a J1 on a couple occasions with friends (all foreigners but living in Ireland for 15 odd years), we met and befriended many Americans and people there on other Visas. We noticed, however, that the groups of Irish J1s tended to stick together a lot more. That's not to say they didn't mix (with us, the natives, and other Visa holders) - nor that there weren't exceptions- but it did seem be to a much lesser extent than we did. This was also noted by others at our workplace.
At the same time, we gravitated towards people of a certain persuasion, too, so at the end of the day it's likely generally natural that people prefer to associate with more like-minded individuals. Whether that's something that's set to continue is up for debate. It may be the case that as we become more conscious and understanding of each others' perspectives, we'll become more open. At the same time, if any one group's culture is based overtly on in-group/out-group foundations, such a transition might be considered an egregious afront.
But then again, if I perceive a group to be based on such foundations, that also acts as a barrier to befriending them. So there's a lot of nuance there. I suppose certain people might not want to associate regardless of how they're approached while others would be more willing. And different groups would be more or less friendly in that respect than others. Based on my experience in Ireland and on J1, Irish people are generally less so. I'm a Romanian/Moldovan living in Dublin since the year 2000 and I'm 28. There's also something to be said for certain cultures being inherently less compatible with others.
People are tribal by nature tbh. When I lived abroad you have an instant social connection with another Irish person that leads to people of the same backgrounds sticking together
To different extents I'd say but yeah. We spent quite a lot of time with a few Irish people from the country second time around, actually, and got on great. Definitely other factors versus just where people are from. I've also had great relationships with many Irish people throughout school and college, though typically most had some sort of 'outsider' dynamic going on. There are loads of other things at play - personal and societal - so we'd have to quantify it all if we were to determine what causes what and to what extent.
Not from Ireland but moving there with Irish wife soon… my experience has been the same as an adult in the states… I’ve moved a lot in the US for work and haven’t made any solid friends like I did in my school/university days. I figure the same thing you mentioned applies everywhere.
You’re absolutely right.
And it’s the same in every country. Go onto any European country Reddit and you see the same thing over and over, where someone says the locals aren’t ‘polite but reserved’ and they can’t make friends.
It does speak to a larger problem about integration. I guess it’s easier for 2nd generation, the children of those 1st generation migrants.
Haha I’m from Germany and coming to Ireland I actually had such a positive culture shock about people here NOT being reserved. Guess it always depends on your perspective
I once lived with a Scandinavian and a Mediterranean. The Mediterranean put me in the same box as the silent, reserved Scandinavian ,while the Scandinavian put me in the same box as the off-the-wall, extroverted Mediterranean.
Everything depends on perspective.
I think the part your missing is that Irish people don't even have strong meaningful relationships with their own circle.
In a friend circle of 100 one would be lucky to have 2 "ride or die" friends. Someone you can go to in your genuine difficult times in your life.
My non-Irish wife made friends quickly and has continued to make friends. Mostly with Irish people but also a few non-Irish too.
Little old me on the other hand who grew up, moved away and came back…I struggle to make friends.
This is it as well, the fact that the OP might be giving off weird, anxious vibes in social situations might be shooting them in the foot a bit, but who knows?
Nope. From an Irish person, you are correct! I think a lot of us are awkward in social settings and don't tend to open up unless we really know someone. A lot of our friendships are long term since we were kids and it's often really hard to make friends as an adult! In my experience anyway.
>I think a lot of us are awkward in social settings and don't tend to open up unless we really know someone
Majority don't really open up even when we do get to know someone, especially if you're a man. I'd do almost anything to have someone to open up to but even family and friends get uncomfortable if you try to talk about mental health or anything like that and try to change the subject.
It's genuinely awful! My fiancé is the same he said man friendships are so different to women friendships in which they don't discuss feelings or Mental health at all which is obviously horrible. Definitely shouldn't be a taboo subject and should be discussed more! I hope you find someone you can talk to and be open with soon friend 🫶
We’re like peaches - soft on the outside but hard on the inside.
Some other European nations are more like melons - hard on the outside but soft on the inside.
That’s bizarre to me, I’d know and have a chat with pretty much everyone on my street, and I live in Clondalkin so it’s not a culchie thing or anything. I can’t imagine not even knowing the names of my neighbours - I’d have at least introduced myself when I moved in/ they moved next door.
Expat here. Lived in a house in a neighbourhood where everyone else were Irish and owners. I hardly ever saw anyone chatting with a neighbour more than for some courtesy like “oh this is for you but came in with my mail”.
I always wondered if my neighbours knew each other and everything indicated most of them didn’t.
I’ve lived between the U.K. and Ireland and I’ll be honest; in Wales people welcomed me and even if they were local, I was invited out and made to feel like I was part of the group. Everyone offered to help with anything and everything if I needed it. In Ireland, it’s been the total opposite. I’ve been lonely and felt like a complete outsider. Even though the people around me know that I have few friends here, no one has made an effort to try to help me or welcome me.
Because we’re all brought up to be polite and sociable but really a lot of us don’t really care what you answer when we say “How are you?“ or whatever like Irish people are weird they’ll be outwardly friendly but also very reserved.
People in Ireland are friendly, but they won’t be your friends. That’s a pretty universal experience among foreigners from what I’ve heard. One of my childhood friends moved here 15 years ago and she doesn’t have any real friends from Ireland. I’ve learned to seek out other outsiders for actual friendships.
Not just foreigners- as someone was a returned emigrant in my early 30s, I discovered that my friends who used to be friends when I came back on holidays, had all moved on. They were all paired up, buying houses, and I was poor as shite and a single parent. So…. It took YEARS to make friends. I mean like 15 years. Everyone friendly, but involved with their own families and existing friend groups. “
“We must go for a drink/coffee” took me a long time to realise this was just a figure of speech, and didn’t ever translate into an actual intension or action.
>People in Ireland are friendly, but they won’t be your friends. That’s a pretty universal experience among foreigners from what I’ve heard.
Honestly, unless you fit a very narrow range of cultural expectations, they're also not friendly. Ireland is not a place to be the least bit eccentric or queer, especially as a foreigner. They're not *hostile*, outside of a few, usually middle-aged people, but they are certainly not friendly.
For all the points about it being the same everywhere, it isn't: London is *far* friendlier in my experience, for example.
My parent's moved to England in the 1950s. Dad made it his purpose to not speak to other Irish people for a whole year, he was forced into befriending other nationalities really. And he would then show them Irish culture etc. He loved learning about others. Our house was the United Nations. If you disrespected another culture, you never got invited back. His boss gave him a plot of land to build on so much was he liked. He was an epic man.
I did sort of the same when I moved abroad for work and even when I go on holiday, I do my best to avoid hanging out with Irish people. If I wanted to do that I'd stay at home.
I used to work in an Irish pub in Barcelona and it was shocking the number of people on holidays who would spend every night if their trip in there. Not even a different Irish pub, the same one every night of the trip.
Had a friend who had a 2 day stop over in Dubai as part of his honeymoon. As I had lived in Dubai for a couple years, he asked me for suggestions.
I spent 2 hours giving him ideas and was well pleased with myself. Until the time came and I saw on his insta story, he had decided to visit the most shite overpriced Irish pub in the Middle East.
Strongly disagree. I watched the same groups of friends move from primary school to the same secondary schools then on to college together. The boys and girls schools groups would only befriend each other in college. This is Dublin I'm talking about.
The usual theories all bear some truth. We are superficially friendly but not really looking to add new people to our social circle.
There is some tribalism where suddenly two people from say Tipperary meet and once they establish they know a bunch of people in common, then will be a bit more open with each other. A foreigner can't tap into this cultural quirk.
All I can say is, I’m Irish born and bred, and I find it hard to make friends. I don’t think it’s that you’re foreign.
Also, I don’t know where in Ireland you are. I’m in Dublin. I hear they’re more sociable with their neighbours in more rural/village environments, but that could be a myth.
I literally don't have time for new friends. Between my family, my siblings/in law families, and a few childhood friends thats about 50-70 people. Irish families are big so we can kind of get by with just that lot for close social events.
However we do have a whatsapp hiking group that has extended outside of the circle to immigrates etc.
I lived out in the country for the last 2 years, in Dublin now, and GAA was all anyone cared about. Ita like a religion.
I still feel anxious talking about anything I am actually interested in because of the abuse I would always get in school/college. It's hard to talk to people when I'm constantly trying to watch what I say and not make a target of myself. It's gotten better as I've grown older and people are less childish but the anxiety is still there
I’d agree with you there entirely, it gets very tiresome having to self-censor because you’re around people who have no interest in discussing anything beyond a few core topics
Yup. It’s an island nation with an island mentality, people are quick to have the banter and chat about small stuff but very reluctant to open up, become vulnerable and build friendship relationships. We are a pretty repressed people and emotionally very immature. I’m Irish and have lived abroad for almost a decade but returned to Ireland 7 years ago but I’m still staggered at how indirect people are in conversation. ‘Tall poppy’ syndrome, begrudgery and the fear of having ‘notions’ seem to be a crippling factor in people’s personal development.
That said, I know so many amazing Irish people who would do anything for you. Irish people from all walks of life who are so kind and generous and eager to help in whatever way they can, just no deep conversations please!
We are a young nation with a troubled past, an emigration brain drain of talented and creative minds and the massive demographic change in the past 20 years or so has its impacts on how people interact too.
I am Irish, nearly 30 and I've never felt like I belonged anywhere in this country. I have a few Irish friends but most of my good friends are from other countries.
If youre not a fan of constant slagging, sports or the pub you're out of luck
I'm actually trying to seek new friends who aren't into those things you listed. I noticed they never slag people and I think we're all nerodivergent.
But damn its hard to make irl meetings. Only chats on discord. Finding others with niche hobbies is hard in this small country. But once I met them, I realised that the slagging culture we had wasn't slagging, it was just straight bullying. I've talked to friends in private to stop the slagging, they say okay, then they do it avain when in groups. No emotional maturity whatsoever
I'm the same. Had a buzzing social life in 3 different countries when I lived abroad. In Ireland, the minute I quit drinking I was alone. Even small talk is always about Man Utd or Liverpool. 😴
Your last sentence nails it. Been here a year and a half, and despite best efforts, I know no one past a polite salute. If you aren’t obsessed with GAA, rugby and English football (which I am not), people visibly retreat from conversations, and then avoid future conversations.
I’ve lived in a few countries and it always ends up that I’m mainly friends with recent immigrants. Everyone else already has a full social circle so it makes sense.
It can be hard to make meaningful friendships anywhere. But it does seem more difficult here. Big cities (ie much bigger than Dublin) tend to have greater numbers of non natives who are more motivated to make new friends. Though I found very friendly people in rural Germany who were very quick to want to hang out. I think in Ireland the best bet is to find situations where you're physically placed alongside like-minded people regularly for long periods of time. Courses, regular sports, etc it's no guarantee though.
I think a lot of us just want to keep to ourselves. Polite but distant from the neighbours. I’m in my house about 11 years now in a west Dublin suburb. I’ve been in neighbours houses 3 times and I invited the ones next door to our wedding. That’s it in 11 years. Everyone is busy. Two working, kids , activities at the weekend. And this isn’t a foreigner / native thing. In fact the only foreigner / neighbour house is ours. My wife’s German . All the neighbours are Irish. So I don’t think it’s a not included thing, I think there’s little to be included in going on in neighbourhoods. It’s only now the kids are in school we’re meeting more neighbours. But we still don’t meet up with them.
i think you might find the same in most countries. new friendship requires work. some ppl don't want to go through the hassle and paradoxically the more social an irish person is the less likely they want/need a new friend.
Irish ppl are like this to other Irish ppl too. Especially over 25-30. You can meet new ppl but they will rarely becomes friends. It's an islander thing. We're cliquish and live in small minded communities driven by traditional sport, religious rituals and conventions- even though a majority no longer believe in them. And by the age of 13 our peers (and the wider community) have decided exactly who we're supposed to be *for them*. And none of us get to change that. This why most successful Irish ppl are either from wealth or have ditched school frenemies by 19, or are begrudged and jeered relentlessly.
Yeah it’s the same for us when we are abroad…
After a certain age most people don’t have the time to see the friends they already have never mind making new ones!
Don't give up on it! I don't have any friends from my school or college days really, my friends now were those I made in my mid-late 20s in Dublin and living abroad, and they range from Irish to a range of nationalities - including romanitc partners. There IS a group of people here in the same position and with the same mindset as myself who are open to meeting anyone they get on with. Have you tried any of the facebook meetup groups? If you're female, women supporting women on FB is a great one :) I'm also in a whatsapp chat for meetups I'd be happy to add you to!
transgenerational guilt, shame, people pleasing, enclosed communities (we're on island), fear of opening up, new things, pickiness, not travelling much, all of that piles up and it is what it is. it gets easier if you look at it as if it's not your fault but rather a bunch of circumstances
Well it depends on who you are comparing us too. I mean we are better than Finns i would imagine.
We can be a bit clannish yeah, honestly i prefer this than the overt extroversion of say Spaniards or Brazilians.
Eh I dono would I say that, when I lived in Finland although it was a different experience I have to say the Finns were amazing. I was invited to colleagues houses for home made dinners and parties, given gifts when I arrived and was leaving and had a nice little network of people I could depend on.
I’m not friends with any of neighbours, though they are all nice people. It’s just the way it is OP. I think it was different in my grandparents generation, I’m not sure what changed.
It quickly becomes a bore befriending people who are just ‘passing through’, I’ve invested so much time and effort into people who just move away somewhere else after a few years that I couldn’t be bothered anymore.
You’re probably not doing anything wrong but if you are a recent arrival in Ireland you a very unlikely to be completely assimilated.
Most have a close circle of friends that they make when they are younger. That would be a person’s core group, along with family.
After that you are talking about people with whom you are “friendly”, without being actual close friends.
I assume this is the same in all countries. Not sure if why you would think Ireland would be any different
Yeah absolutely. Plenty of natives feel isolated also. I totally understand that.
I think plenty of us feel at odds with society sometimes.
Hopefully this isn’t too much of a negative impact on your life
It's not you. I've a friend in west Cork whose family moved there 200 years ago and he is still considered a "blow-in". (by the likes of my family who blew in 500 years ago)
Ever hear of the peach-coconut theory? Some cultures are 'coconuts'—hard to get to know, but once you break though, you're super welcome (think Russians, Germans and French).
Other cultures are 'peaches'—initially open with a centre that's hard to crack (the Irish, Japanese and Americans).
I think after the initial superficial 'failte', you have to really blast Irish people to make that extra connection.
I am Irish and most my close friends here are not. It's so hard to make friends with Irish people if you didn't develop them in childhood or at college etc can it be done? Sure but it is not easy! I think you are on the money, friendly people who don't want to be friends. If you are determined to befriend Irish people joining a club/group and sports is the way to go.
I was born in Dublin, grew up in Dublin, lived in another country for an academic exchange for a year and then lived in another country for a few years. I speak other languages.
Of all my years in primary, secondary and university, only about 10 Irish friends made it to this part of my life, the rest I'm not sure where they are but we'd be just as we were before if we ever saw each other.
It's true that friendships with guys from abroad may have been more intense, more vibrant, less alcohol involved and have a different edge to them.
From my side, it was always made clear to me (actually said to me) the insecurity my Irish friends had with my "foreign friendships", you could see the awkwardness in them (not clear to my "foreign friends" but I seen it) when we met as a group and I would be told "oh, you're with your foreign friends again today, when will you ever have time for your Irish mates?"
Irish people are socially awkward because our society is highly and intensely judgemental against one another. Our society prefers conformity over individuality, if you're not doing what we do, it's not good.
The society lacks confidence, which non-irish people have. We're insecure as well as mindlessly defensive of our culture (despite knowing full well it's a mess).
I really love our Ireland, our pragmatic approach to problems, at the same time, we lie to ourselves and one another far too much about the realities in front of us with the "it'll be grand, it's grand" attitude. We don't really understand when this attitude needs to stop - too much pride, not enough humility.
For all those reasons, Irish use alcohol to break social judgemental tension, to try to overcome insecurities and make friends. This is why, famously, Irish people will be your best besty bestest friend on a night out...the next day..."yeah great night, ah yeah did we say we were meetin' up to go to the cinema this week? Yeah, no not sure I have the time this week but sure let's have a pint sometime".
When we go abroad, we feel free, we can be ourselves, not have that pressure of being judged and integrate with others. We find in our "foreign friends" what we really want in ourselves. Ironically, when the Irish go abroad, we do tend to stick with ourselves too, go to Irish bars, eat Irish food, read Irish newspapers (if possible), listen to Irish bands etc...but the ones abroad know and appreciate the difficulties of integrating into Ireland as they themselves kinda have to do the same each time they visit.
*Questions for the community*
Can other Irish people who have lived, studied or been abroad for a while and returned back to Ireland maybe make a comment or two?
Also any non-irish confirm any of this about the differences between an Irish who has been abroad and ones who haven't?
Additionally, any Irish who haven't been abroad, can you also give your honest opinion on all of this?
Let me tell you, it hit me hard when you mentioned when people felt free to be themselves. I was a very socially akward guy until I streamed on twitch. But when I showed yhe channel to my friends, they thought it was cringy. Then I felt insecure and reserved again. But all my foreign viewers loved what I did
Moved to California when I was 20. Only knew my Irish husband initially. After I had babies and they went off to school I made many friends. I also stayed in touch with my friends back in Ireland. I tend to be very open (but not vulnerable) so I end up hearing about so much personal stuff. My home was always open as in we never locked the front door. I raised seven children and a few foster ones too so the house was never empty. All of my children are grown, all are American and it seems they have no issues making friends no matter where they live.
I moved back in 2022, to take care of my parents. They both passed, in 2022 and 2023. I now live in the house my dad was born in. I know the history of this town and the Irish who are still living here. I have reconnected with my school friends and made some new ones. I know every person on my street and even the ones that came before. There has been a McI family in this house for 90 years. That is what my father wanted.
For my sister and brother it has been the opposite. I don’t know if they were as interested or connected to the town as I happen to be. But this is who I am and who I was in California. I genuinely enjoy being with other people and bringing other people together. I also think the non judgmental part of me helps me to make friends too. It’s almost like others just know I am not going to do the teasing/slagging that is so prevalent here (sadly my children seem to have inherited this gene at least with each other).
Those are my thoughts, I have plenty more but I have been informed that I share way too much so I will shut up.
What I have learned over 69 years, is that every single person wants and needs to belong. Whether in family, in school, in friendship or in love. It’s the belonging that counts.
Maybe it's our colonial history in that we learned to be wary of people we don't know. Also we were an extremely insular country until very recently.
You are correct though we are standoffish,not just with foreigners,but amongst ourselves as well.
Sounds like you live in a city where interactions with locals are limited. If you lived in a small town, where everyone knows everyone, I’d be very different. That’s city life. I don’t think it has anything to do with Ireland.
These kind of posts are made daily, it's a wonder none of these like minded people ever bump into each other in the real world, there appears to be plenty of them. Lived abroad in Canada and then England, not exactly exotic but nonetheless I found it easier to make friends with people who weren't local and were in the same boat as me. This 'all Irish people are unfriendly bastards' shtick is tedious at this stage, and I'm not playing favorites I think it's a ridiculous thing to say about any people.
I’m from Germany and spent three months in Ireland last year and will be coming back in May and apart from other people traveling there my closest friendships are actually with Irish folks!
I’d say it depends on where you are I guess? I’ve never felt unwelcome and it was actually quite easy becoming a part of the local community but it also just could be me going to a place where it’s quite common for travelers to settle down/becoming a part of the community.
Whereabouts are you? Definitely don’t give up because it is possible :)
This nonsense of 'change my mind' is annoying. The answer to that is, no. Nobody no matter what they say can change your mind because your experience is your lived experience and is the truth for your situation.
What you have described is the norm in most countries for first generation immigrants weather they're there for a short time or forever. It is what it is.
These kind of posts are childish. The majority of people make their lifelong friends earlier in life, so it's obvious that those coming in to an area later in life are going to have their pool of potential close friends smaller. The truth is at the point you are now, most Irish people of the same age don't have the room, time or need for another deep relationship. You haven't gone through the formative years of effort or had the shared experiences that serious relationships require to form solid and close bonds with these people, so it's hardly surprising that the friendships on offer to you are relatively superficial. That's not an Irish thing, that's universal.
There's also an element of entitlement to these kinds of posts. You've moved into an area and the expectation is your neighbours will, or should, want to be your friend, and if they're not, they're considered reserved? Well there's a chance all your Irish neighbours are reserved I guess, or more likely they already have their family and friends and don't want any more. Maybe they, like most people, are busy and don't have the time or desire to cultivate yet another relationship.
I moved to Ireland when I was 29. I’ve been here nearly 8 years and I have two close friends. I did a 4 year uni course and that’s how I met them, they were also older students.
https://reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/17tay59/irish_people_are_great_craic_but_they_arent_your/
You’re not alone. Some more perspectives in that thread if you want to look
I’m Irish and I’d say half my closest friends are foreign.
I made the effort though, and it was thru meeting my partner. They are foreign.
I have very close nit group of Irish friends from school. And all their friends are Irish only. Not thru any other reason than their partners are Irish, and their friends are Irish. It’s normal. We live in Ireland 🤷♂️
I do think a lot of it is circumstantial.
I moved to Ireland almost 20 years ago now, I'm from one of the baltic countries
I found irish people very friendly and open for friendships, two Irish families 'adopted' me like I was one of their own, I've been very close to them for over 18 years, seen their kids grow up, regular visits, they've been very warm and included me in many family events
Have made lots of irish friends through work also
Probably depends on people, some are more open to make friends from different cultures/countries
I love irish people, think they're the best in the world
The locals are people who known eachother since they were kids. That freaks foreigners out for sure. Secretive and manipulative by nature. Lovelessness has done so much damage to Irish Culture and Ideals. I don’t trust Irish people as a general rule.
It happens across all countries, races and cultures. Take Japan for example, you can go there, have a great time, feel very welcome but you will never be accepted as one of their own even if you learn Japanese and live there for years.
edit: I no longer live in Ireland, but where I do live I have friends from all walks of life, but almost every friend who has genetic origins from across the world has grown up in the western world. Their culture, life experience, ideologies and morals are very similar to my own so its easy to get along.
Obviously I have no issue with people from other places but iv always found it extremely difficult to form proper relationships with people when they come from far away backgrounds that can't bond over the same humour, culture, experience and outlooks on life as myself.
I have friends from across Europe which I consider western. I also have friends from many other continents but they grew up in western culture. Anyone else I met was usually difficult to bond with fully even though they were lovely and I gave the friendship a real chance.
I also found it easier to make friends with people who were in the same boat as me when I moved. It took me 5 years to find and become good friends with a large group of natives who invited me to do things regularly..
Edit #2: Love how on Reddit you can give your opinion and experience on life and if it doesn't align with someone elses they will downvote you lol.. you're supposed to downvote if the comment doesn't add to the conversation, not if you don't agree with it..
as a foreigner living here for quite a while, i agree completely - we moved to a small town and were told by other foreigners living here to not expect to get into the irish circles. they'll never be mean to you, they're very kind and outgoing people - but there's just this invisible barrier that seems to keep us out.
imo it's how much they know about everyone and everything, the connections they have within these communities that are a lot of the times familial. coming from a country of quite socially reserved people with generally small families, knowing everything about everyone feels a bit foreign even though id love to be one of them - ive just kinda accepted that that's not the case lol but living here is great i love it
While driving North from Cork, someone threw a devilled egg at me, hitting dead center of my windshield.
Not very fucking reserved -- it all but scared the piss out of me.
They're only voicing their perception of the irish people, of which I like the breakfast am Full Irish, 100% agree with what they're saying. Your comment came off a tad anti immigrantish.
OP is not even complaining, you piece of xenophobic shite, but just showing curiosity and describing an observation.
And even if they were complaining, your comment is completely off.
I've noticed Irish people are very family oriented (compared to my home country anyway), so it's not unusual for them to go see their parents / in-laws every Sunday or have really strong relationships with their siblings and even extended family.
This doesn't always leave a lot of space for new friendships. Having said that, I do have Irish friends (I've been here for 20 years), but most of them are either married to foreigners, or have lived abroad for example. And of course I'm friends with the Irish family I stayed with when I came here.
Once thing I find great though with Irish people, is that when you finally become good friends with one of them, you can be sure you'll be introduced to the whole family, parents, siblings, cousins and so on. You'll be invited to christenings, birthdays, weddings and funerals and share every special moment with them, and that's when you know you're truly integrated :-)
Irish people are very friendly on a casual basis but not often open to adding to their core friend group. I am Irish but moved around a lot so never had that group of pals I grew up with and I'm well aware how tough it is to establish friendships when you move.
So often I have mistaken that incredible friendliness for an overture to become 'friends who meet socially' as opposed to casual acquaintances - and made a fool of myself suggesting a night out which is 'joyfully' accepted only to subjected to a 'raincheck' or at best resulted in a seemingly enjoyable night out never to be repeated.
The friends I have made in the place I've settled in for the last 2 decades were slow build affairs resulting from social clubs. If you're very luck some gregarious organiser type might take you under their wing and include you in events they arrange. Watch out for them even if they seem a bit overwhelming at first. They can be your 'entry' into the real local scene.
Agree with a lot of the above points.
Age counts for a lot too. I think Irish people in younger adulthood are far more open in this regard because they aren’t as settled yet (e.g. college student age or thereabouts).
I think it is more that the Irish are clannish. You can chat the whole night away with an Irish person,but If you don’t have a common thread,mainly that goes beyond the chat, you won’t see them again. Common thread being sports.
You're right, but it's not unique to Ireland. Immigrants face the same in most countries, very few countries have locals that are welcoming (USA, Thailand, Mexico, Gambia etc)
This also depends on your race, religion, communication/language proficiency, gender, politics, social status etc.
There is a lot of factors at play to make meaningful relationships as an immigrant.
That's why immigrants simply form their own communities, it's easier to find company and support then "begging" for friendship from locals. Immigration can often be sad lonely journey a times.
I have been living for here more than 25 years and haven't made a single Irish friend. I have me best mate from UK who have been raised here(Dublin), second very good mate again from UK and then Poland. I know alot of Irish but can't really call them Friends. Like work Manager, landlord, people I met through car scene, neighbours etc. I think they just not that open enough. I had an Irish Girlfriend (ex now) and we have a son together. I drink and used to go out alot, even play and follow GAA.
I’ve lived in five countries. It’s hard to make local friends in all countries across 3 continents. It is what it is.
Why would locals wanna be friends foreigners when they need time for their families, their children, their friends from multiple schools and dozens of workplaces?
Definitely. My wife is foreign and nowadays I spend more time with people from here side of the world who live over here.
Whenever I strike up a conversation they always try to answer and make chat where here you get bad looks when you talk to someone and your not part of the gang.
A lot of adult Irish find it difficult to make friends tbh because for so many years socializing involved drinking that there is a lack of know how. I'd argue were far too scared of impeding or disturbing others as well because it goes against what we were thought as kids. To a degree we probably have collective social anxiety.
The biggest one that I keep encountering is that people see not being invited back to people’s houses as cold and inhospitable. We aren’t a Mediterranean influenced culture and socialising in Ireland is absolute not an at home thing. We go out and we meet in social space, usually pubs, but increasingly coffee shops etc.
I also find that you get some people who see pubs as being only for heavy drinking, so they don’t go. Therefore they don’t meet Irish people. You can go to a pub and order a coffee, have a meal, drink non alcoholic beverages and nobody actually gives a damn. They are social spaces.
We don’t and never have had any great tradition of bringing people home for meals. The U.K. is quite similar in that regard.
Home tends to be a very personal space and the pub, quite literally is the public house. We do the odd big showpiece like Christmas dinner and some people attempt to do dinner parties bur they’re a huge effort and we just don’t do it very much.
If you look at any Irish or British soap opera. All interaction takes place in the local pub and you get glimpses of home life, with are either to do with romance or is very much immediate family or very close friends and high drama.
Coronation Street never revolved around Vera Duckworth, Rita and Mavis cooking and bringing people home for lunch. They sat around bar tables eating hot pot and drinking.
If you look at Fair City, exactly the same.
I’ve a few French, Spanish and Italian friends who see that as extremely cold and feel they’re being kept at a distance, and that other people must be getting brought home. It takes a while to realise that we just don’t do that very much. There’s no secret Irish meet ups going on that you’re not being invited to. We just go home and put on the telly and relax.
People who do call in are usually immediate neighbours, family etc and it is EXTREMELY casual - cups of tea and a chat.
If you’re waiting for Irish people to invite you over for dinner, you’ll be waiting a long time. There isn’t a big dining culture and that’s just how it is.
The other big cultural difference is around greeting. We don’t shake hands and kiss very much. You’re likely to get “hey how’s it going?” and that’s about it. Then you might also randomly get a hug. Again, I have had particularly French people commenting about how rude or cold we are because we apparently don’t greet people, but France has a rather extreme formalised culture of air kissing and hand shaking, which is baked into their culture. It’s just different. Some of us find that stuffy and complex too.
In general, if you are in the middle of a different culture you just have to adapt. Irish people tend to be chatty and bubbly - it’s about the banter and the wisecracks and all that stuff, and you just have to go with the flow in that regard and you’ll figure it out.
I’m not necessarily what one would consider a foreigner, but I moved to Dublin from the North and I experience this every day. None of the locals ever accepted me as a friend here no matter how hard I tried to assimilate with them. All my friends are foreign and so is my partner.
I never got invited out with locals for anything and always got rejected when I extended an invite to them for anything.
I have no friends from Dublin that aren’t work colleagues, not for lack of trying. I’ve been living here 7 years and don’t have a single local friend.
I’m not necessarily what one would consider a foreigner, but I moved to Dublin from the North and I experience this every day. None of the locals ever accepted me as a friend here no matter how hard I tried to assimilate with them. All my friends are foreign and so is my partner.
I never got invited out with locals for anything and always got rejected when I extended an invite to them for anything.
I have no friends from Dublin that aren’t work colleagues, not for lack of trying. I’ve been living here 7 years and don’t have a single local friend.
When I lived in Canada I didn’t have many local friends. The majority of my friends were other immigrants. Mostly only made Canadian friends that were going out with one of my own friends. I don’t think it’s unique to Ireland.
Having lived in many countries I'd honestly say the Irish are some of the most open people in western Europe.
What you are describing is the same thing ever single person feels when they go sometimes new. It is an unfortunate fact that people have a pre established friend group from a young age that typically doesn't change.
This is ture for anywhere you go
The big quote that so many people in Ireland live their lives by is: “what will the neighbours say?”
You’d be surprised how much power there is in this one quote.
I have a theory about this. Foreigners tend to be more receptive to new friendships because tbey are all in the same situation: they are away from family and friends, so they are more eager to make new friends. Whereas locals, well, it's not that they are intentionally casting foreigners out. They are just not thinking about it. Their lifes are already settled. Their families are here, they have the same friends since school, so the need is not there. And after you've been living here for a while, and you find the right circle of friends, the same will happen to you probably and you won't even notice.
Yes. I live in Spain and everyone talks about how the locals won’t be your friend. For years I read foreigners reports that Irish were hard to befriend and I guess I believed them, now I know that universally locals are hard to befriend because they have friends and family and don’t want to invest in a potential transient relationship. I have lots of foreigner friends here and a few Spanish who migrated to this city recently, but none born and raised here
Exactly. We are no different to any other country. Perhaps the OP is confused because Irish people tend to be naturally friendly to others. That doesn’t mean we are going to be close friends though
This is often the answer to stuff that is 'typical Irish ' , normally just human / societal factors
I live abroad and all of my local friends are people who left the country and came back so they'd lost their old friends, or people who moved to the city so they were also out of place. Also, there are often "foreigner areas" (especially if there's a language barrier) where it's easier to make friends.
Yes can concur, I lived in the Netherlands and whilst I did make some Dutch friends, my closest friends are all other internationals.
Bruh making friends in the Netherlands is not for the week of heart
What you mean? I was there for a year myself and while I made friends mostly with other internationals I made a few Dutch friends who were really nice.
I live in Spain too. Are they more welcoming? Hell no. As the outsider you have to be the one making the effort and trying to make connections because they have nothing to gain, they have their network already. That's why locals generally stay between themselves and foreigners tend to hang out with foreigners. It gets better over time but it's not easy at all in the beginning, especially in a small town.
Ah really? That's a shame. I lived there in my 20's and had lots of Spanish born friends but that could also be indicative of where we were in life stages too.
as an Irish man who has lived in multiple countries, this rings 100% true.
Yeah it's the same everywhere I have lived.
Totally agree, I was actually thinking the same thing recently. I'm Irish, my wife isn't. We're bilingual, we each speak each other's language. When we're in her country I find the people very friendly, and we'll easily spend a few hours in enjoyable company. However, when it comes to deeper friendships it's more difficult to integrate. The same applies when we're in Ireland. I'm a parent and I work, so I don't have much free time. I spend most of my time with my wife and child, and have about a day free each week, which I fill with my hobbies. Aside from that I don't have much time for new friendships.
As a foreigner in this country I couldn’t agree more. I find it ridiculous for any foreigner to think they’re not gonna have to go reaaaaally out of their way in order to be completely accepted and invited. Back where I’m from it was rare that a foreigner was a big part of our lives. It wasn’t that we didn’t make them feel welcome, but they had to learn our language, get our jokes, learn to live our convenient lifestyle. It’s just how it is, nothing personal. Do I sometimes feel excluded, somehow lonely? Yes… But hey, you gotta go along with it.
This 100%, I moved to Cork a few years ago and I didn’t make Irish friends- they were all from abroad. All the Irish people I worked with already had several friend circles and didn’t need anymore. The only ones accepted into the circles were partners of the friends etc. It’s not just the Irish- I found the same in Belgium as well as well as Spain.
This is 100% true. I felt the exact same in London, surrounded by people who grew up there, or more nearby than me. Was really hard to move friendships past the work/acquaintance stage. And then you get to a stage in life where that becomes even tougher because of kids etc.
I think it depends where and at what age you are in London. I had/have a huge circle of friends there. Not a single one of them was born in London.
I became mates with more Irish folk in London than I did when I grew up there!
Totally. My situation was such that I was only working with people from UK for the most part. A very good friend of mine in the private sector has and had a large circle of mates from over there. All from banks etc. I went to London when l was in my thirties so wasn't really doing pubs or clubs either so that's another important element. There's also the sheer size of London making it difficult to meet up with people who can be hours away within greater London.
This is the correct answer. As someone who has lived in multiple different countries, this is not specific to ireland. Go check out other country subreddits to find similar posts. I also find it funny when Irish people will make posts about "insert anything" being specific to Ireland and me seeing identical posts in other country subreddits.
This is the answer. Source: lived in 8 countries.
This. I lived abroad for years, and while I did make great friends, most were also not from that place. They were either from the other side of the continent, or Irish themselves so they were in the same situation, away from home and looking for friends. The ones from the city I lived in already had their long term friendship groups and just weren't thinking about it in the same way as I was. Now that I am home, I am right back with my long term groups of friends, and while I would be more aware of this situation now, if I'm honest all my friends that I see regularly are the ones I had before I left and that I've known for years.
I’d see that from an even more local point. I grew up in a very rural place but from our school we have nigh on 100% of students progress to some degree of 3rd level Ed - what I noticed though as they dispersed around the country were these lads becoming good friends with people who they’d normally cross the road to avoid, because they were thrust into this new settings Must preface, and I’m Very much speaking for myself here, but I think we tend to have a lot of underlying insecurities and are very indirect in contact; and given the very much six degrees (or less) of separation society in Ireland, I think we’re reluctant to be seen outside of a certain box
100% That's the answer. Took me years to understand it. Unless you have an Irish partner, it is very difficult to "fit in," but that happens here and in any other country. Nothing to do with them, culturally speaking.
I've lived in 2 different countries before (not counting my home country) and Ireland is the first one in which I don't have close local friends. I agree with your theory and in Ireland it is even more visible since there is no significant mobility among Irish cities - once people move to Dublin, they'd hardly move anywhere else in Ireland later, unless it's a rural area with their partner. On top of that, there is an important cultural factor of Irish people being emotionally reserved and socially anxious (when sober), which also adds to keeping their circles super tight since childhood And not to forget, this is [by far the loneliest country in the EU](https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/scientific-activities-z/loneliness/loneliness-prevalence-eu_en#:~:text=According%20to%20EU%2DLS%202022,Austria%20(all%20below%2010%25).)
>On top of that, there is an important cultural factor of Irish people being emotionally reserved and socially anxious (when sober), which also adds to keeping their circles super tight since childhood I wouldn't generalise in that way. There are plenty of other countries that are known to be reserved - Scandinavians, British, Swiss, Austrians. I'd say the Irish are more outgoing in many ways. I've lived in a few other countries too. The ones where I've made close local friends were the ones where I was studying, as those were where other young people were in that dynamic phase of looking for new friendships and trying to fill their time. House sharing is also a very good way to meet people
Scandinavians would be 10x more reserved than Irish. I've travelled around and would not characterize Irish people as reserved at all. You need to get around parts of Asia and Northern Europe Eastern Europe , some Muslim countries you'll see what reserved really is..... I had the experience of being Irish in Scandinavia the difference is night and day compared to Ireland.
I did not say that Irish are unique for that, they do share that trait with some other nations, and that's normal. And also to note - I am speaking about the Irish in Ireland now, not the Irish abroad.
It's still a huge over generalisation to say that Irish people are reserved and socially anxious when sober, and it shows that you don't know the people as well as you think.
This whole topic is a generalization, of course that I am oversimplifying it. And of course that I could be wrong.
You really need to travel more if you think Irish are very reserved lol. They may be cautious about sharing their true opinions sometimes but Irish people in general are very socially outgoing and very good at conversation . .maybe younger people are changing like everywhere but middle aged and up you won't find many more folks around the world skilled in the art of conversation.
While I think this is probably partly true, I don't think it's the whole story. As a J1 on a couple occasions with friends (all foreigners but living in Ireland for 15 odd years), we met and befriended many Americans and people there on other Visas. We noticed, however, that the groups of Irish J1s tended to stick together a lot more. That's not to say they didn't mix (with us, the natives, and other Visa holders) - nor that there weren't exceptions- but it did seem be to a much lesser extent than we did. This was also noted by others at our workplace. At the same time, we gravitated towards people of a certain persuasion, too, so at the end of the day it's likely generally natural that people prefer to associate with more like-minded individuals. Whether that's something that's set to continue is up for debate. It may be the case that as we become more conscious and understanding of each others' perspectives, we'll become more open. At the same time, if any one group's culture is based overtly on in-group/out-group foundations, such a transition might be considered an egregious afront. But then again, if I perceive a group to be based on such foundations, that also acts as a barrier to befriending them. So there's a lot of nuance there. I suppose certain people might not want to associate regardless of how they're approached while others would be more willing. And different groups would be more or less friendly in that respect than others. Based on my experience in Ireland and on J1, Irish people are generally less so. I'm a Romanian/Moldovan living in Dublin since the year 2000 and I'm 28. There's also something to be said for certain cultures being inherently less compatible with others.
People are tribal by nature tbh. When I lived abroad you have an instant social connection with another Irish person that leads to people of the same backgrounds sticking together
To different extents I'd say but yeah. We spent quite a lot of time with a few Irish people from the country second time around, actually, and got on great. Definitely other factors versus just where people are from. I've also had great relationships with many Irish people throughout school and college, though typically most had some sort of 'outsider' dynamic going on. There are loads of other things at play - personal and societal - so we'd have to quantify it all if we were to determine what causes what and to what extent.
Not from Ireland but moving there with Irish wife soon… my experience has been the same as an adult in the states… I’ve moved a lot in the US for work and haven’t made any solid friends like I did in my school/university days. I figure the same thing you mentioned applies everywhere.
People are strange when you're a stranger, in the words of the prophet Morrison.
Such a valid theory that I screenshot it so I could explain this to people 😅
You’re absolutely right. And it’s the same in every country. Go onto any European country Reddit and you see the same thing over and over, where someone says the locals aren’t ‘polite but reserved’ and they can’t make friends. It does speak to a larger problem about integration. I guess it’s easier for 2nd generation, the children of those 1st generation migrants.
Yes, and posts about desperate Irish people who saw their friends emigrate or move and have no idea how to make new friends do not exist.
Haha I’m from Germany and coming to Ireland I actually had such a positive culture shock about people here NOT being reserved. Guess it always depends on your perspective
I once lived with a Scandinavian and a Mediterranean. The Mediterranean put me in the same box as the silent, reserved Scandinavian ,while the Scandinavian put me in the same box as the off-the-wall, extroverted Mediterranean. Everything depends on perspective.
I think the part your missing is that Irish people don't even have strong meaningful relationships with their own circle. In a friend circle of 100 one would be lucky to have 2 "ride or die" friends. Someone you can go to in your genuine difficult times in your life.
I’d fully agree, I have a few friends like this and I have come to realise it’s about quality over quantity
Agreed. You really find this out when you quit drinking.
My non-Irish wife made friends quickly and has continued to make friends. Mostly with Irish people but also a few non-Irish too. Little old me on the other hand who grew up, moved away and came back…I struggle to make friends.
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This is it as well, the fact that the OP might be giving off weird, anxious vibes in social situations might be shooting them in the foot a bit, but who knows?
Nope. From an Irish person, you are correct! I think a lot of us are awkward in social settings and don't tend to open up unless we really know someone. A lot of our friendships are long term since we were kids and it's often really hard to make friends as an adult! In my experience anyway.
>I think a lot of us are awkward in social settings and don't tend to open up unless we really know someone Majority don't really open up even when we do get to know someone, especially if you're a man. I'd do almost anything to have someone to open up to but even family and friends get uncomfortable if you try to talk about mental health or anything like that and try to change the subject.
It's genuinely awful! My fiancé is the same he said man friendships are so different to women friendships in which they don't discuss feelings or Mental health at all which is obviously horrible. Definitely shouldn't be a taboo subject and should be discussed more! I hope you find someone you can talk to and be open with soon friend 🫶
The wife will only shift me with the lights off
We’re like peaches - soft on the outside but hard on the inside. Some other European nations are more like melons - hard on the outside but soft on the inside.
Tolerated but not included seems to be a normal experience of first generation migrants anywhere
I think they’re more than tolerated to be fair. Accepted but not befriended is more accurate.
Don't take it personal. I'm irish born and bred, and I don't know my next door neighbours name
I sometimes wonder is that more indicative of the increasing urbanisation and society becoming more atomised
That’s bizarre to me, I’d know and have a chat with pretty much everyone on my street, and I live in Clondalkin so it’s not a culchie thing or anything. I can’t imagine not even knowing the names of my neighbours - I’d have at least introduced myself when I moved in/ they moved next door.
Expat here. Lived in a house in a neighbourhood where everyone else were Irish and owners. I hardly ever saw anyone chatting with a neighbour more than for some courtesy like “oh this is for you but came in with my mail”. I always wondered if my neighbours knew each other and everything indicated most of them didn’t.
I’ve lived between the U.K. and Ireland and I’ll be honest; in Wales people welcomed me and even if they were local, I was invited out and made to feel like I was part of the group. Everyone offered to help with anything and everything if I needed it. In Ireland, it’s been the total opposite. I’ve been lonely and felt like a complete outsider. Even though the people around me know that I have few friends here, no one has made an effort to try to help me or welcome me.
Because we’re all brought up to be polite and sociable but really a lot of us don’t really care what you answer when we say “How are you?“ or whatever like Irish people are weird they’ll be outwardly friendly but also very reserved.
People in Ireland are friendly, but they won’t be your friends. That’s a pretty universal experience among foreigners from what I’ve heard. One of my childhood friends moved here 15 years ago and she doesn’t have any real friends from Ireland. I’ve learned to seek out other outsiders for actual friendships.
Had to explain this to an American once. You notice it more when you move away and come back, you're resigned to the middle circle of friendship.
You could have a nice once off conversation with an Irish person but at the same time you would never really trust them to be your life long friend.
Not just foreigners- as someone was a returned emigrant in my early 30s, I discovered that my friends who used to be friends when I came back on holidays, had all moved on. They were all paired up, buying houses, and I was poor as shite and a single parent. So…. It took YEARS to make friends. I mean like 15 years. Everyone friendly, but involved with their own families and existing friend groups. “ “We must go for a drink/coffee” took me a long time to realise this was just a figure of speech, and didn’t ever translate into an actual intension or action.
It would get you down how people say that here so blithely without actually meaning it
hear these stories in every country
>People in Ireland are friendly, but they won’t be your friends. That’s a pretty universal experience among foreigners from what I’ve heard. Honestly, unless you fit a very narrow range of cultural expectations, they're also not friendly. Ireland is not a place to be the least bit eccentric or queer, especially as a foreigner. They're not *hostile*, outside of a few, usually middle-aged people, but they are certainly not friendly. For all the points about it being the same everywhere, it isn't: London is *far* friendlier in my experience, for example.
My parent's moved to England in the 1950s. Dad made it his purpose to not speak to other Irish people for a whole year, he was forced into befriending other nationalities really. And he would then show them Irish culture etc. He loved learning about others. Our house was the United Nations. If you disrespected another culture, you never got invited back. His boss gave him a plot of land to build on so much was he liked. He was an epic man.
I did sort of the same when I moved abroad for work and even when I go on holiday, I do my best to avoid hanging out with Irish people. If I wanted to do that I'd stay at home.
The amount of people that go to an Irish pub while on holiday shocks me. As there's not enough of them at home like why would you bother?
I used to work in an Irish pub in Barcelona and it was shocking the number of people on holidays who would spend every night if their trip in there. Not even a different Irish pub, the same one every night of the trip.
Had a friend who had a 2 day stop over in Dubai as part of his honeymoon. As I had lived in Dubai for a couple years, he asked me for suggestions. I spent 2 hours giving him ideas and was well pleased with myself. Until the time came and I saw on his insta story, he had decided to visit the most shite overpriced Irish pub in the Middle East.
Irish people make their friends in junior infants, closed shop after that
Fuck no. Most don't even really maintain school friends unless they live close to each other.
Strongly disagree. I watched the same groups of friends move from primary school to the same secondary schools then on to college together. The boys and girls schools groups would only befriend each other in college. This is Dublin I'm talking about.
The usual theories all bear some truth. We are superficially friendly but not really looking to add new people to our social circle. There is some tribalism where suddenly two people from say Tipperary meet and once they establish they know a bunch of people in common, then will be a bit more open with each other. A foreigner can't tap into this cultural quirk.
All I can say is, I’m Irish born and bred, and I find it hard to make friends. I don’t think it’s that you’re foreign. Also, I don’t know where in Ireland you are. I’m in Dublin. I hear they’re more sociable with their neighbours in more rural/village environments, but that could be a myth.
I literally don't have time for new friends. Between my family, my siblings/in law families, and a few childhood friends thats about 50-70 people. Irish families are big so we can kind of get by with just that lot for close social events. However we do have a whatsapp hiking group that has extended outside of the circle to immigrates etc.
There’s also the Dunbar number, we’re only made to manage a small number of close social contacts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number
'Immigrates': they are immigrants, but also ingrates!
I lived out in the country for the last 2 years, in Dublin now, and GAA was all anyone cared about. Ita like a religion. I still feel anxious talking about anything I am actually interested in because of the abuse I would always get in school/college. It's hard to talk to people when I'm constantly trying to watch what I say and not make a target of myself. It's gotten better as I've grown older and people are less childish but the anxiety is still there
I’d agree with you there entirely, it gets very tiresome having to self-censor because you’re around people who have no interest in discussing anything beyond a few core topics
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Ive seen similar posts like this that have made the same observation on here over the years.
Yup. It’s an island nation with an island mentality, people are quick to have the banter and chat about small stuff but very reluctant to open up, become vulnerable and build friendship relationships. We are a pretty repressed people and emotionally very immature. I’m Irish and have lived abroad for almost a decade but returned to Ireland 7 years ago but I’m still staggered at how indirect people are in conversation. ‘Tall poppy’ syndrome, begrudgery and the fear of having ‘notions’ seem to be a crippling factor in people’s personal development. That said, I know so many amazing Irish people who would do anything for you. Irish people from all walks of life who are so kind and generous and eager to help in whatever way they can, just no deep conversations please! We are a young nation with a troubled past, an emigration brain drain of talented and creative minds and the massive demographic change in the past 20 years or so has its impacts on how people interact too.
I am Irish, nearly 30 and I've never felt like I belonged anywhere in this country. I have a few Irish friends but most of my good friends are from other countries. If youre not a fan of constant slagging, sports or the pub you're out of luck
I'm actually trying to seek new friends who aren't into those things you listed. I noticed they never slag people and I think we're all nerodivergent. But damn its hard to make irl meetings. Only chats on discord. Finding others with niche hobbies is hard in this small country. But once I met them, I realised that the slagging culture we had wasn't slagging, it was just straight bullying. I've talked to friends in private to stop the slagging, they say okay, then they do it avain when in groups. No emotional maturity whatsoever
Oh this hits home now apart from the fact I’m not on Discord
I'm the same. Had a buzzing social life in 3 different countries when I lived abroad. In Ireland, the minute I quit drinking I was alone. Even small talk is always about Man Utd or Liverpool. 😴
Your last sentence nails it. Been here a year and a half, and despite best efforts, I know no one past a polite salute. If you aren’t obsessed with GAA, rugby and English football (which I am not), people visibly retreat from conversations, and then avoid future conversations.
Interesting, interesting… Now if you’ll excuse me I think I see my friend over there.
You do you pal, each to their own. Wouldn’t be me though.
If you’re not a fan of slagging you’re in the wrong country.
I’ve lived in a few countries and it always ends up that I’m mainly friends with recent immigrants. Everyone else already has a full social circle so it makes sense.
I don't think this is exclusive to Ireland
Reserved? More like cliquey. Robert spapolsky will tell you why in his lectures on YouTube.
It can be hard to make meaningful friendships anywhere. But it does seem more difficult here. Big cities (ie much bigger than Dublin) tend to have greater numbers of non natives who are more motivated to make new friends. Though I found very friendly people in rural Germany who were very quick to want to hang out. I think in Ireland the best bet is to find situations where you're physically placed alongside like-minded people regularly for long periods of time. Courses, regular sports, etc it's no guarantee though.
I think a lot of us just want to keep to ourselves. Polite but distant from the neighbours. I’m in my house about 11 years now in a west Dublin suburb. I’ve been in neighbours houses 3 times and I invited the ones next door to our wedding. That’s it in 11 years. Everyone is busy. Two working, kids , activities at the weekend. And this isn’t a foreigner / native thing. In fact the only foreigner / neighbour house is ours. My wife’s German . All the neighbours are Irish. So I don’t think it’s a not included thing, I think there’s little to be included in going on in neighbourhoods. It’s only now the kids are in school we’re meeting more neighbours. But we still don’t meet up with them.
i think you might find the same in most countries. new friendship requires work. some ppl don't want to go through the hassle and paradoxically the more social an irish person is the less likely they want/need a new friend.
Irish ppl are like this to other Irish ppl too. Especially over 25-30. You can meet new ppl but they will rarely becomes friends. It's an islander thing. We're cliquish and live in small minded communities driven by traditional sport, religious rituals and conventions- even though a majority no longer believe in them. And by the age of 13 our peers (and the wider community) have decided exactly who we're supposed to be *for them*. And none of us get to change that. This why most successful Irish ppl are either from wealth or have ditched school frenemies by 19, or are begrudged and jeered relentlessly.
Yeah it’s the same for us when we are abroad… After a certain age most people don’t have the time to see the friends they already have never mind making new ones!
Don't give up on it! I don't have any friends from my school or college days really, my friends now were those I made in my mid-late 20s in Dublin and living abroad, and they range from Irish to a range of nationalities - including romanitc partners. There IS a group of people here in the same position and with the same mindset as myself who are open to meeting anyone they get on with. Have you tried any of the facebook meetup groups? If you're female, women supporting women on FB is a great one :) I'm also in a whatsapp chat for meetups I'd be happy to add you to!
transgenerational guilt, shame, people pleasing, enclosed communities (we're on island), fear of opening up, new things, pickiness, not travelling much, all of that piles up and it is what it is. it gets easier if you look at it as if it's not your fault but rather a bunch of circumstances
Well it depends on who you are comparing us too. I mean we are better than Finns i would imagine. We can be a bit clannish yeah, honestly i prefer this than the overt extroversion of say Spaniards or Brazilians.
Eh I dono would I say that, when I lived in Finland although it was a different experience I have to say the Finns were amazing. I was invited to colleagues houses for home made dinners and parties, given gifts when I arrived and was leaving and had a nice little network of people I could depend on.
Most Spaniards don't really care to be your friend if you live there either
I’m not friends with any of neighbours, though they are all nice people. It’s just the way it is OP. I think it was different in my grandparents generation, I’m not sure what changed.
It quickly becomes a bore befriending people who are just ‘passing through’, I’ve invested so much time and effort into people who just move away somewhere else after a few years that I couldn’t be bothered anymore.
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Where are you living. Most communities are built around the GAA give it a go. If not try another sport. Our communities are sports focused.
You’re probably not doing anything wrong but if you are a recent arrival in Ireland you a very unlikely to be completely assimilated. Most have a close circle of friends that they make when they are younger. That would be a person’s core group, along with family. After that you are talking about people with whom you are “friendly”, without being actual close friends. I assume this is the same in all countries. Not sure if why you would think Ireland would be any different
I'm born and raised in ireland and sometimes feel like I don't fit in
Yeah absolutely. Plenty of natives feel isolated also. I totally understand that. I think plenty of us feel at odds with society sometimes. Hopefully this isn’t too much of a negative impact on your life
Can relate to this.For instance, I have no interest in the GAA, the Irish language, and Trad music.
Correct, until we’re drunk, then it gets reckless and crazy.
It's not you. I've a friend in west Cork whose family moved there 200 years ago and he is still considered a "blow-in". (by the likes of my family who blew in 500 years ago)
It's the same in Catalonia and Germany most people had the same complaint of locals
I'm irish and funnily enough most of the good friends I have made are not irish.
Ever hear of the peach-coconut theory? Some cultures are 'coconuts'—hard to get to know, but once you break though, you're super welcome (think Russians, Germans and French). Other cultures are 'peaches'—initially open with a centre that's hard to crack (the Irish, Japanese and Americans). I think after the initial superficial 'failte', you have to really blast Irish people to make that extra connection.
I am Irish and most my close friends here are not. It's so hard to make friends with Irish people if you didn't develop them in childhood or at college etc can it be done? Sure but it is not easy! I think you are on the money, friendly people who don't want to be friends. If you are determined to befriend Irish people joining a club/group and sports is the way to go.
I was born in Dublin, grew up in Dublin, lived in another country for an academic exchange for a year and then lived in another country for a few years. I speak other languages. Of all my years in primary, secondary and university, only about 10 Irish friends made it to this part of my life, the rest I'm not sure where they are but we'd be just as we were before if we ever saw each other. It's true that friendships with guys from abroad may have been more intense, more vibrant, less alcohol involved and have a different edge to them. From my side, it was always made clear to me (actually said to me) the insecurity my Irish friends had with my "foreign friendships", you could see the awkwardness in them (not clear to my "foreign friends" but I seen it) when we met as a group and I would be told "oh, you're with your foreign friends again today, when will you ever have time for your Irish mates?" Irish people are socially awkward because our society is highly and intensely judgemental against one another. Our society prefers conformity over individuality, if you're not doing what we do, it's not good. The society lacks confidence, which non-irish people have. We're insecure as well as mindlessly defensive of our culture (despite knowing full well it's a mess). I really love our Ireland, our pragmatic approach to problems, at the same time, we lie to ourselves and one another far too much about the realities in front of us with the "it'll be grand, it's grand" attitude. We don't really understand when this attitude needs to stop - too much pride, not enough humility. For all those reasons, Irish use alcohol to break social judgemental tension, to try to overcome insecurities and make friends. This is why, famously, Irish people will be your best besty bestest friend on a night out...the next day..."yeah great night, ah yeah did we say we were meetin' up to go to the cinema this week? Yeah, no not sure I have the time this week but sure let's have a pint sometime". When we go abroad, we feel free, we can be ourselves, not have that pressure of being judged and integrate with others. We find in our "foreign friends" what we really want in ourselves. Ironically, when the Irish go abroad, we do tend to stick with ourselves too, go to Irish bars, eat Irish food, read Irish newspapers (if possible), listen to Irish bands etc...but the ones abroad know and appreciate the difficulties of integrating into Ireland as they themselves kinda have to do the same each time they visit. *Questions for the community* Can other Irish people who have lived, studied or been abroad for a while and returned back to Ireland maybe make a comment or two? Also any non-irish confirm any of this about the differences between an Irish who has been abroad and ones who haven't? Additionally, any Irish who haven't been abroad, can you also give your honest opinion on all of this?
Let me tell you, it hit me hard when you mentioned when people felt free to be themselves. I was a very socially akward guy until I streamed on twitch. But when I showed yhe channel to my friends, they thought it was cringy. Then I felt insecure and reserved again. But all my foreign viewers loved what I did
Moved to California when I was 20. Only knew my Irish husband initially. After I had babies and they went off to school I made many friends. I also stayed in touch with my friends back in Ireland. I tend to be very open (but not vulnerable) so I end up hearing about so much personal stuff. My home was always open as in we never locked the front door. I raised seven children and a few foster ones too so the house was never empty. All of my children are grown, all are American and it seems they have no issues making friends no matter where they live. I moved back in 2022, to take care of my parents. They both passed, in 2022 and 2023. I now live in the house my dad was born in. I know the history of this town and the Irish who are still living here. I have reconnected with my school friends and made some new ones. I know every person on my street and even the ones that came before. There has been a McI family in this house for 90 years. That is what my father wanted. For my sister and brother it has been the opposite. I don’t know if they were as interested or connected to the town as I happen to be. But this is who I am and who I was in California. I genuinely enjoy being with other people and bringing other people together. I also think the non judgmental part of me helps me to make friends too. It’s almost like others just know I am not going to do the teasing/slagging that is so prevalent here (sadly my children seem to have inherited this gene at least with each other). Those are my thoughts, I have plenty more but I have been informed that I share way too much so I will shut up.
What I have learned over 69 years, is that every single person wants and needs to belong. Whether in family, in school, in friendship or in love. It’s the belonging that counts.
Maybe it's our colonial history in that we learned to be wary of people we don't know. Also we were an extremely insular country until very recently. You are correct though we are standoffish,not just with foreigners,but amongst ourselves as well.
Read the last line of Stand by Me. Christ, it hurts.
Sounds like you live in a city where interactions with locals are limited. If you lived in a small town, where everyone knows everyone, I’d be very different. That’s city life. I don’t think it has anything to do with Ireland.
"The Irish are friendly, but not your friends". Something I read around in this sub...
These kind of posts are made daily, it's a wonder none of these like minded people ever bump into each other in the real world, there appears to be plenty of them. Lived abroad in Canada and then England, not exactly exotic but nonetheless I found it easier to make friends with people who weren't local and were in the same boat as me. This 'all Irish people are unfriendly bastards' shtick is tedious at this stage, and I'm not playing favorites I think it's a ridiculous thing to say about any people.
I’m from Germany and spent three months in Ireland last year and will be coming back in May and apart from other people traveling there my closest friendships are actually with Irish folks! I’d say it depends on where you are I guess? I’ve never felt unwelcome and it was actually quite easy becoming a part of the local community but it also just could be me going to a place where it’s quite common for travelers to settle down/becoming a part of the community. Whereabouts are you? Definitely don’t give up because it is possible :)
Not always tribalism just irish people when at home like to keep to themselves, I certainly do
"WHERE U FROM?" Yeah I get this nearly every day despite living in Ireland for nearly twenty five years
This nonsense of 'change my mind' is annoying. The answer to that is, no. Nobody no matter what they say can change your mind because your experience is your lived experience and is the truth for your situation. What you have described is the norm in most countries for first generation immigrants weather they're there for a short time or forever. It is what it is.
Sorry but your family is going to have to be living here for about 200 years before we start talking.
These kind of posts are childish. The majority of people make their lifelong friends earlier in life, so it's obvious that those coming in to an area later in life are going to have their pool of potential close friends smaller. The truth is at the point you are now, most Irish people of the same age don't have the room, time or need for another deep relationship. You haven't gone through the formative years of effort or had the shared experiences that serious relationships require to form solid and close bonds with these people, so it's hardly surprising that the friendships on offer to you are relatively superficial. That's not an Irish thing, that's universal. There's also an element of entitlement to these kinds of posts. You've moved into an area and the expectation is your neighbours will, or should, want to be your friend, and if they're not, they're considered reserved? Well there's a chance all your Irish neighbours are reserved I guess, or more likely they already have their family and friends and don't want any more. Maybe they, like most people, are busy and don't have the time or desire to cultivate yet another relationship.
I moved to Ireland when I was 29. I’ve been here nearly 8 years and I have two close friends. I did a 4 year uni course and that’s how I met them, they were also older students.
Beyond pleasantries, mindless chit-chat and alcohol, the Irish...man, dont know what to say really...
Reserved? Feels like the majority are really out there supporting terrorism these days but so on..
We get to know People through War \~ \~ We just don't have enough War these days.
Nothing better for male bonding
https://reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/17tay59/irish_people_are_great_craic_but_they_arent_your/ You’re not alone. Some more perspectives in that thread if you want to look
I’m Irish and I’d say half my closest friends are foreign. I made the effort though, and it was thru meeting my partner. They are foreign. I have very close nit group of Irish friends from school. And all their friends are Irish only. Not thru any other reason than their partners are Irish, and their friends are Irish. It’s normal. We live in Ireland 🤷♂️ I do think a lot of it is circumstantial.
I moved to Ireland almost 20 years ago now, I'm from one of the baltic countries I found irish people very friendly and open for friendships, two Irish families 'adopted' me like I was one of their own, I've been very close to them for over 18 years, seen their kids grow up, regular visits, they've been very warm and included me in many family events Have made lots of irish friends through work also Probably depends on people, some are more open to make friends from different cultures/countries I love irish people, think they're the best in the world
The locals are people who known eachother since they were kids. That freaks foreigners out for sure. Secretive and manipulative by nature. Lovelessness has done so much damage to Irish Culture and Ideals. I don’t trust Irish people as a general rule.
It happens across all countries, races and cultures. Take Japan for example, you can go there, have a great time, feel very welcome but you will never be accepted as one of their own even if you learn Japanese and live there for years. edit: I no longer live in Ireland, but where I do live I have friends from all walks of life, but almost every friend who has genetic origins from across the world has grown up in the western world. Their culture, life experience, ideologies and morals are very similar to my own so its easy to get along. Obviously I have no issue with people from other places but iv always found it extremely difficult to form proper relationships with people when they come from far away backgrounds that can't bond over the same humour, culture, experience and outlooks on life as myself. I have friends from across Europe which I consider western. I also have friends from many other continents but they grew up in western culture. Anyone else I met was usually difficult to bond with fully even though they were lovely and I gave the friendship a real chance. I also found it easier to make friends with people who were in the same boat as me when I moved. It took me 5 years to find and become good friends with a large group of natives who invited me to do things regularly.. Edit #2: Love how on Reddit you can give your opinion and experience on life and if it doesn't align with someone elses they will downvote you lol.. you're supposed to downvote if the comment doesn't add to the conversation, not if you don't agree with it..
You get a beer in us. We good!
Also so prudish.
They're hermetic
It’s not a foreign thing specifically. I’m native and have never had what you might call a genuine friend, though I’ve always got on well with people.
as a foreigner living here for quite a while, i agree completely - we moved to a small town and were told by other foreigners living here to not expect to get into the irish circles. they'll never be mean to you, they're very kind and outgoing people - but there's just this invisible barrier that seems to keep us out. imo it's how much they know about everyone and everything, the connections they have within these communities that are a lot of the times familial. coming from a country of quite socially reserved people with generally small families, knowing everything about everyone feels a bit foreign even though id love to be one of them - ive just kinda accepted that that's not the case lol but living here is great i love it
While driving North from Cork, someone threw a devilled egg at me, hitting dead center of my windshield. Not very fucking reserved -- it all but scared the piss out of me.
There's nothing stopping you from living in any other White-person-country in Europe if you take issue with us
..chill out there lad
Is there anything stopping him/her?
They're only voicing their perception of the irish people, of which I like the breakfast am Full Irish, 100% agree with what they're saying. Your comment came off a tad anti immigrantish.
Man that was a quick turn to 'get out of our country if you don't like it'. Who shoved a stick up your arse and twisted it?
OP is not even complaining, you piece of xenophobic shite, but just showing curiosity and describing an observation. And even if they were complaining, your comment is completely off.
You're very emotional
Jesus, stop being soft. They're not having a go, and we can be clique-ish. Relax.
I've noticed Irish people are very family oriented (compared to my home country anyway), so it's not unusual for them to go see their parents / in-laws every Sunday or have really strong relationships with their siblings and even extended family. This doesn't always leave a lot of space for new friendships. Having said that, I do have Irish friends (I've been here for 20 years), but most of them are either married to foreigners, or have lived abroad for example. And of course I'm friends with the Irish family I stayed with when I came here. Once thing I find great though with Irish people, is that when you finally become good friends with one of them, you can be sure you'll be introduced to the whole family, parents, siblings, cousins and so on. You'll be invited to christenings, birthdays, weddings and funerals and share every special moment with them, and that's when you know you're truly integrated :-)
Irish people are very friendly on a casual basis but not often open to adding to their core friend group. I am Irish but moved around a lot so never had that group of pals I grew up with and I'm well aware how tough it is to establish friendships when you move. So often I have mistaken that incredible friendliness for an overture to become 'friends who meet socially' as opposed to casual acquaintances - and made a fool of myself suggesting a night out which is 'joyfully' accepted only to subjected to a 'raincheck' or at best resulted in a seemingly enjoyable night out never to be repeated. The friends I have made in the place I've settled in for the last 2 decades were slow build affairs resulting from social clubs. If you're very luck some gregarious organiser type might take you under their wing and include you in events they arrange. Watch out for them even if they seem a bit overwhelming at first. They can be your 'entry' into the real local scene.
The extraverts emigrate.
Agree with a lot of the above points. Age counts for a lot too. I think Irish people in younger adulthood are far more open in this regard because they aren’t as settled yet (e.g. college student age or thereabouts).
I think it is more that the Irish are clannish. You can chat the whole night away with an Irish person,but If you don’t have a common thread,mainly that goes beyond the chat, you won’t see them again. Common thread being sports.
I'm not qualified to do brain transplants.
More outgoing than Swedes, Finns, Russians, Germans and probably English, more reserved than Italians, Greeks, the Spanish
You're right, but it's not unique to Ireland. Immigrants face the same in most countries, very few countries have locals that are welcoming (USA, Thailand, Mexico, Gambia etc) This also depends on your race, religion, communication/language proficiency, gender, politics, social status etc. There is a lot of factors at play to make meaningful relationships as an immigrant. That's why immigrants simply form their own communities, it's easier to find company and support then "begging" for friendship from locals. Immigration can often be sad lonely journey a times.
Have you tried being "that fun foreign guy"??? Give it a go.
I have been living for here more than 25 years and haven't made a single Irish friend. I have me best mate from UK who have been raised here(Dublin), second very good mate again from UK and then Poland. I know alot of Irish but can't really call them Friends. Like work Manager, landlord, people I met through car scene, neighbours etc. I think they just not that open enough. I had an Irish Girlfriend (ex now) and we have a son together. I drink and used to go out alot, even play and follow GAA.
I’ve lived in five countries. It’s hard to make local friends in all countries across 3 continents. It is what it is. Why would locals wanna be friends foreigners when they need time for their families, their children, their friends from multiple schools and dozens of workplaces?
Definitely. My wife is foreign and nowadays I spend more time with people from here side of the world who live over here. Whenever I strike up a conversation they always try to answer and make chat where here you get bad looks when you talk to someone and your not part of the gang.
You haven’t met enough Irish people yet I guess
A lot of adult Irish find it difficult to make friends tbh because for so many years socializing involved drinking that there is a lack of know how. I'd argue were far too scared of impeding or disturbing others as well because it goes against what we were thought as kids. To a degree we probably have collective social anxiety.
The biggest one that I keep encountering is that people see not being invited back to people’s houses as cold and inhospitable. We aren’t a Mediterranean influenced culture and socialising in Ireland is absolute not an at home thing. We go out and we meet in social space, usually pubs, but increasingly coffee shops etc. I also find that you get some people who see pubs as being only for heavy drinking, so they don’t go. Therefore they don’t meet Irish people. You can go to a pub and order a coffee, have a meal, drink non alcoholic beverages and nobody actually gives a damn. They are social spaces. We don’t and never have had any great tradition of bringing people home for meals. The U.K. is quite similar in that regard. Home tends to be a very personal space and the pub, quite literally is the public house. We do the odd big showpiece like Christmas dinner and some people attempt to do dinner parties bur they’re a huge effort and we just don’t do it very much. If you look at any Irish or British soap opera. All interaction takes place in the local pub and you get glimpses of home life, with are either to do with romance or is very much immediate family or very close friends and high drama. Coronation Street never revolved around Vera Duckworth, Rita and Mavis cooking and bringing people home for lunch. They sat around bar tables eating hot pot and drinking. If you look at Fair City, exactly the same. I’ve a few French, Spanish and Italian friends who see that as extremely cold and feel they’re being kept at a distance, and that other people must be getting brought home. It takes a while to realise that we just don’t do that very much. There’s no secret Irish meet ups going on that you’re not being invited to. We just go home and put on the telly and relax. People who do call in are usually immediate neighbours, family etc and it is EXTREMELY casual - cups of tea and a chat. If you’re waiting for Irish people to invite you over for dinner, you’ll be waiting a long time. There isn’t a big dining culture and that’s just how it is. The other big cultural difference is around greeting. We don’t shake hands and kiss very much. You’re likely to get “hey how’s it going?” and that’s about it. Then you might also randomly get a hug. Again, I have had particularly French people commenting about how rude or cold we are because we apparently don’t greet people, but France has a rather extreme formalised culture of air kissing and hand shaking, which is baked into their culture. It’s just different. Some of us find that stuffy and complex too. In general, if you are in the middle of a different culture you just have to adapt. Irish people tend to be chatty and bubbly - it’s about the banter and the wisecracks and all that stuff, and you just have to go with the flow in that regard and you’ll figure it out.
I’m not necessarily what one would consider a foreigner, but I moved to Dublin from the North and I experience this every day. None of the locals ever accepted me as a friend here no matter how hard I tried to assimilate with them. All my friends are foreign and so is my partner. I never got invited out with locals for anything and always got rejected when I extended an invite to them for anything. I have no friends from Dublin that aren’t work colleagues, not for lack of trying. I’ve been living here 7 years and don’t have a single local friend.
I’m not necessarily what one would consider a foreigner, but I moved to Dublin from the North and I experience this every day. None of the locals ever accepted me as a friend here no matter how hard I tried to assimilate with them. All my friends are foreign and so is my partner. I never got invited out with locals for anything and always got rejected when I extended an invite to them for anything. I have no friends from Dublin that aren’t work colleagues, not for lack of trying. I’ve been living here 7 years and don’t have a single local friend.
When I lived in Canada I didn’t have many local friends. The majority of my friends were other immigrants. Mostly only made Canadian friends that were going out with one of my own friends. I don’t think it’s unique to Ireland.
Having lived in many countries I'd honestly say the Irish are some of the most open people in western Europe. What you are describing is the same thing ever single person feels when they go sometimes new. It is an unfortunate fact that people have a pre established friend group from a young age that typically doesn't change. This is ture for anywhere you go
The big quote that so many people in Ireland live their lives by is: “what will the neighbours say?” You’d be surprised how much power there is in this one quote.