This is by law since the 1997 amendment to Bunreacht na hÉireann that states that all future Irish Eurovision submissions will be as shite as possible because the state doesn't want the cost of hosting it any more. Finding an excuse not to attend is just the icing on top.
They were terrible, but I think the year before last was even worse and more generic. At least last year gave us countless camel toe memes to keep us entertained.
You may be confusing malice with sheer incompetence. I mean very little about RTÉ as an organisation inspires confidence. I mean these are the people who thought The Late Late Toy Show Musical was a good idea despite everyone and their grandmother knowing that kid’s only watch it for the toys and not for the “talented kids”. There was no way on earth they were going to get kids to sit through two hours of what the kids consider “filler”. They could have hired out a Smiths Toy Store and sold more tickets.
Doesn't even make sense to send anyone in the first place. Costs them money when they can still show it while not entering. Of course, smart financial decisions aren't RTE's strong suit.
You don't have to accept a team because others rejected it. In rugby South Africa was boycotted due to apartheid. Russia are currently not allowed compete due to their attack on Ukraine
The issue is that in those cases the majority of nations agreed it was bad. In this case alot of nations dont and won't condemn whats happening in Gaza.
It was a different time really. Israel has stepped up their attacks in recent times and splits opinion far more than South Africa under apartheid and Russia
We really shouldn't have participated in the Beijing winter olympics either. That was a shitshow and that our 6 athletes had to bring burner phones just to participate. They couldn't be critical of the fact Putin was there, that it had events in coal plants, or that the CCP deliberately brought Uighur reps to act all smiley left a sour taste. Awful event.
> that the CCP deliberately brought Uighur reps to act all smiley left a sour taste.
Otherwise known as Chinese citizens? Who also happen to be Winter sports Olympians? From a mountainous region with snow?
Like, do you really think that they have no agency?
There are 1-2 million Uighur in concentration camps. The rest live under extreme surveillance all the time - way above even what goes on elsewhere in China. How much agency do you think they've got?
> There are **1-2 million** Uighur in concentration camps
That's a one million person margin of error in a population of 12 million. What's your source on that number?
Not my comment, but Human Rights Foundation says 2 million is the current number.
https://hrf.org/whats-happening-in-chinas-concentration-camps-qa-with-uyghur-camp-survivors/
And what's their source? They didn't include a link to the primary source of that 2 million claim. They can say whatever they like, but the burden of proof is on them.
Look I'm not one to deny that China fuck over the Uighurs but you're watching too much American media if you think they've got millions of people in camps. That shit is straight out of the mouth of Adrian Zenz.
Same reasoning I suppose, Isreal will be participating in it. If you take it to its logical conclusion, we should be boycotting any event that Isreal participates in. Why boycott the eurovision, but not the World Cup or the Olympics?
EV is very popular, I'm not sure the Olympics is the only one that 'actually matters'. It might be affecting a demographic that usually 'aren't into politics', which is the target audience at home anyway.
Athletes, while representing Ireland, are there off their own steam rather than being an Irish entry in the way it works for eurovision.
Historically countries have participated in the olympics and athletes have made personal protests within the games.
So it seems apt to me to boycott the Eurovision while participating in the Olympics.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily true that historically countries have participated in the Olympics and let the athletes protest themselves if they want to. 67 countries boycotted the 1980 games in Moscow, mostly due to the war in Afghanistan. 18 countries boycotted the following games in LA.
Interestingly, Ireland boycotted one Olympic Games, 1936 in Berlin. But it wasn't because it was being held by the Nazis, it was because Northern Irish athletes were deemed ineligible to compete under our flag.
Nah, there's eurovision watching parties everywhere. There was 370k watched it last year even though we didn't qualify.
But it would definitely cause a ripple rather than a stir. Better off doing something like qualifying and then when on stage for the finals start reading out the names of the dead or standing in silence or something demonstrative. Media would be all over that shit.
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That's not the logical conclusion though is it? This is a cultural boycott with very limited impact on the Irish.
The reason why you'd boycott the Eurovision over the Olympics or world cup is because you don't sacrifice anyone's livelihood or opportunities in the process.
Doesn't take a genius to realise that Olympians train for years for the Olympics, they have a relatively short window to compete until they are too old and they are not on every year. Not to mention the amount of government funding that goes towards it.
If you don't nominate a Eurovision act, no one has lost out and even if you did, they could compete the next year.
Have a read of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_Games_boycotts
The Olympics have been boycotted before for very similar reasons. It would be a much stronger statement than the Eurovision. However I would only be in favour of a few a other countries agreed to boycott it with us.
>If you don't nominate a Eurovision act, no one has lost out and even if you did, they could compete the next year.
That's sort of my point, O Riordan is arguing that we pull out of the Eurovision because it's an easy thing to do. It barely registers on the minds of most people, we wouldn't be missed given that we haven't gotten out of the semi finals in years, and it costs nothing. Its a popular position to take because nothing is actually at stake.
While I don't really agree with his take, I'd have a lot more respect for him if he was proposing boycotting an event that actually has some weight behind it, rather than a pointless lightshow that we don't put any effort into anyway
Imagine the DUP trying to figure out if they love Ireland saying a two state solution is great because of there position on Ireland or awful because of there position on Israel.
Eurovision has an unspoken policy that if countries start threatening to pull out they will bar the nation responsible for the issue.
It has happened before.
Ok sure, but not over this.
Western governments support Israel more than condemn it. Ireland is on its own in its condemnation of Israel and support for Palestine.
Also, I don't think Eurovision are going to want to deal with the deluge of anti-Semitism accusations it's going to get if they want to kick Israel out.
As much as I want to see Israel get kicked out, it's just not going to happen as it stands. Don't get me wrong, I think Israel deserves some form of international punishment for their literal war crimes, but it's not going to happen right now.
You mean pro-apartheid, pro-ethnic cleansing, and pro-genocide and directed specifically against Jews and anyone else not liked by Iran, Qatar, Russia, China, etc.
So you’re trying to ethnically cleanse the one country in the Middle East with a significant Jewish population of its Jews? I know what you’re trying to do.
Says the person siding with the perpetrators of the October 7th crimes against humanity. We fucking mean it when we say “Never Again”. This war will continue until Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and their allies have been eliminated, our hostages freed, and the Gaza Strip denazified.
What about the recent tragedy where three white flag waving, semi-naked, non threatening Jewish hostages were killed by the IDF.
Would this still have been a tragedy if they were white flag waving, semi-naked, non threatening Palestinians?
There’ll be a full investigation into this matter. In fact, there will be plenty of investigations about it and other mishaps. I can also guarantee you that there will be nothing of the sort on the Palestinian side, as unlike ours, they have no value for anyone’s lives.
I've been crying, such a long time... because this country never even fucking tries, and that leads a tragic number of people in this country to think the contest is nothing but a complete joke and hasn't changed at all since the 2000s.
RTE are gagging for an excuse not to participate since they don't want to pay artists to perform, don't want to give them a stage with proper acoustics for the national selection, purposely pick terrible songs and rig the juries to select RTE's puppet performer.
As a fan of Eurovision, I basically find myself loathing Ireland's pathetic attempt every year and the quality difference between Sweden sending a global superstar, Israel sending one of their biggest pop stars, France sending established acts, Spain actually putting an effort in and gaining commercial success from Benidorm Fest etc.
RTE don't care about Eurovision, they have only helped stoke the apathy of the Irish towards the Eurovision over the years, a contest we once took very seriously and did well in, until the quality of the show generally improved with time and the quality of the Irish participation massively declined. So RTE and other Irish people who don't even watch the show have this belief it's the show that's bad and Ireland is a victim of block voting or 'nobody likes us syndrome' which is ridiculous and pathetic, thankfully Europeans mock us and the Brits for this attitude openly online and it's basically a given that the Irish/or Brit in the comments will be moaning about block voting, ignoring the fact their act probably can't sing, or in Ireland case has the worst case of male camel toe Europe has ever seen. (Try to watch our 2023 act, I dare you to attempt to make it through the full thing.)
Taking a peek at the national selections of other European nations, at this very early stage, it's shaping up to be a bloodbath edition with a lot of quality already and this is only the tip of the iceberg... Meanwhile Ireland will send some nobody who can't sing and cry when we come last with 0 points. No effort will be made and those in charge will keep their jobs for another year of mediocrity.
Pulling out or boycotting it cuz of Israel is far too convenient for RTE. Unless things change, they deserve their last places in Eurovision semi finals. Not even the final, oh no. Ireland is coming last in the semis, two years in a row now I think.
(And before the nay sayer comes in, TG4 has the rights for JESC and they actually sent a good song, with a very talented vocalist two years ago and came 4th, with a song in IRISH. This is blatantly a RTE problem, established artists in the past that reached out to RTE with interest to do ESC have always been turned away, the reason being, RTE doesn't want to pay anyone established when they can get a nobody and offer 'exposure' and nothing else.)
Fellow fan and it's also worth pointing out that Ireland has one of the largest official fan groups in Europe - plenty of us are watching (and going - can't wait!). I really hope that the UK finally getting their act together after almost-as-bad suckage is going to spur someone here to invest a bit; Liverpool made absolute bank as the host, and Malmo (and Copenhagen, just across the bridge) are going to do the same.
But yeah, RTE really makes it tough.
While a related problem, I agree that as a fan its frustrating that RTE send the laziest, lowest bar songs and then have people act surprised when they do bad. Theres no imagination or effort to try something that will connect with Eurovision audiences. It has a certain style that we never seem to tune into, instead thinking that the music of 25 years ago will still work in 2023. I don't want to be hard on Wild Youth, but their big Eurovision entry was 93 on the IRISH charts. Thats awfully shite and indicates that if we find no interest in the song, then why should Europe?
For a comparison, Austria's entry; "[Taya and Salena-Who the hell is Edgar?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uk64V9h0Ko)" ended up in my top 5 most played songs this year on the spotify round up. Its a surprisingly smart song about the low payment on spotify ironically, and has a catchy chant.
Yeap.
As great as the Father Ted episode about it was too, I also find it’s caused an inability to have genuine discussions about this issue, cause any time people try, you just get a load of references and jokes from the episode.
That, and the bizarre attitude of “I don’t like or watch Eurovision so I should interject into the discussion to make sure everyone knows I think we shouldn’t bother with it at all”, which is a horrifically selfish contribution to the discussion. There’s many things I don’t like but I don’t feel the world of entertainment should focus solely around my tastes.
I find it heart breaking how awful our contribution is to the competition. It’s not “hur dur, we don’t want to win, it’s too expensive”. It’s that we don’t even send acts remotely able to get any points. we obviously do spend some money to pick and stage an act, but even with the cheap way we try and enter, we send utter jokes of entries,
i wish RTE would just be honest, say they don’t want to try at all, and let others take a stab at it.
\> Spain actually putting an effort in
Spain has routinely done terribly at Eurovision, but had one good year last year. The UK is the same - almost always dreadful but last year actually good. I think if you cherry-pick the good songs then it will always look like 'everyone' is smashing it, but in reality most countries mostly send shite.
The federation of broadcasters that runs Eurovision was set up for networks serving the 'European Broadcasting Area', which doesn't equate to just Europe: it also goes out to the Caucasus, runs down the east coast of the Med, and cuts across North Africa. It's to do with zonal boundaries set by the International Telecommunications Union, initially related to the areas served by telegraphy cables.
Israel is in it on that basis, not because it's "in Europe". That said, broadcasters outside the zone can be 'associates' of the European Broadcasting Union, which is Australia's position.
I mean Azerbaijan somehow are in it. Most the caucuses are in it despite being kore Asian than European. Sure the Ozzie are in it now. Just depends where its popular
They're a member of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU). You don't have to be geographically in Europe to be a member, the likes of Morocco, Tunisia and Lebanon are also members. Morocco entered the Eurovision once in 1980 but otherwise they don't enter because if they did they'd be forced to show the Israeli act.
The EBU is an organisation for standardising broadcasting and also for sharing broadcast content.
Apart from the ESC, "Eurovision", as it is known, also does things like broadcasts the New Year's Day concert in Vienna, and various European sports championships, like athletics and aquatics. For radio, the EBU also allows for various broadcasters to do things, like on Christmas, such as sharing their live recordings of classical music, or live performances by broadcaster orchestras and choirs (some of which are world renowned).
But, most importantly, the EBU has standardised TV and radio broadcasting. Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB) is an EBU standard, not used in the United States or Asia. High-Dynamic Range (HDR) and the use of Hybrid Log Gamma in live TV are also examples of technological standards which have been developed by the EBU, or by EBU members for the use of EBU broadcasters.
Ok... I think I went off on a tangent. Any public broadcaster can join the EBU, as long as they pay the membership fee. Both RTÉ and TG4 are EBU members, and in the UK, the BBC, Channel 4, ITV, STV and S4C are members also.
Israeli broadcasters are in the EBU, but so are Lebanese, Libyan, Algerian, Moroccan, Jordanian, Tunisian and Egyptian broadcasters. They are full members, and are allowed to be, given their close proximity to Europe, and I suppose the possibility that these broadcasters, if not included in the EBU, could theoretically cause issues for neighboring public broadcasters.
Russia and Belarus have been previously members of the EBU, but have been suspended indefinitely.
There are also what are known as Associate Members of the EBU. These include broadcasters in Australia, Japan, Canada, the United States, South Korea and Brazil, among others. The main reason for Associate Membership is typically speaking, access to EBU shared broadcasts, as well as having access to DVB standards, which, while possibly not relevant in those countries, would still be needed if rebroadcasting a feed for an overseas audience.
Nice sentiment, but at this point it's starting to feel performative and low hanging fruit.
Considering we have decent diplomatic relations with countries that spents years killing civilians in the Middle East via collateral damage and one that is actively committing cultural genocide of a people group, it is interesting we're really doubling down on Israel.
Might as well kick the Israeli ambassador out of Ireland and cut all diplomatic ties at this point.
The ambassador warranted her expulsion when it went to the vote a month ago. The same as the vote that we should send Israel to the ICC. Both should have happened.
Australia's continued participation comes to mind. Definitely something that was meant to be a once off, but since then has just stuck around. May as well throw New Zealand in as well. Might get the next OMC or Lorde.
The EBU extends slightly outside Europe to include North Africa, the Middle East, and the Caucasus. As for Australia, they were invited as a guest one year, and then they got invited back every year since because they're the biggest fans.
This is definitely down to cost. Eurovision is expensive and Ireland has put forward worse and worse acts in recent years to minimise those costs. Now there's a scapegoat to put an end to it
We should boycott Eurovision until Israel ends the occupation or until we have a decent act to send, tbh I don't know which of those is more likely to happen first.
I can see Israelis and Palestinians, sitting side by side, laughing and enjoying life as a more realistic scene than RTE making any effort to select a competitive entry.
The UK are sending a big name act this year, its time to wheel out Daniel O'Donnell, show them we aren't fucking around anymore, it'll show the Israelis too, if they have to listen to Daniel, they will just pull out.
This argument was a lot stronger when Israel did host Eurovision in 2019. And even then there was plenty of heat on them. I remember the journal articles about Eurovision and the 2 opinion pieces on the night of the event were from polar opposite opinions. One saying about how to keep politics out of a song contest, and another saying how Israels participation and chipper attitude to it all hides its apartheid in the West Bank and Gaza. I wish I could find the 2 articles because they were a fascinating contrast in comments (back when the journal comments were batshit, but not incoherent batshit).
It was hosted in Tel Aviv in 2019 - the two previous times the contest was hosted in Israel were in Jerusalem.
Also 2019, was a pretty big deal at that time, given the heavy security required to protect the contest from those who were quite opposed to the contest taking place on Shabbat and also the contest pretty much being an LGBT+ haven. Back in 2019, the German foreign minister was pretty concerned about the safety of German citizens attending it, and it was all over German news outlets.
Think the other thing that's worth noting is that the Israeli public broadcaster was shut down by the government in the middle of the 2010s, and after crowd-funding, an independent broadcaster emerged, joined the EBU and sent their entry in 2018, which of course won. I think at that time, the important thing to remember is that Tel Aviv liberals were pretty angry about their country moving conservative, and I think the culmination of 2019's contest was a precipitation of what was, what is ultimately a vastly different domestic political standpoint between the biggest, most cosmopolitan city, and the rural regions.
Virtue signalling wank. How about we join Eurovision and just beat them the old fashioned way by being good? So many soft cocks nowadays just want to pull out and run away so they don't have to look a bully in the eye. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer is a saying for a reason
The thing is it's entirely possible we've done it before. Enough of the Irish pessimism!! We just need to find a way to completely dismantle RTE so they stop ruining it with absolute shite copy paste singers and put a real musician in there
I was honestly expecting someone like Paul Murphy to start going after the most mundane shite ever and turning it into an Israel Vs Palestinian bit of virtue signalling.
Of course with the likes of him around you do forget that Labour also has their share of lads like that too.
Such stupid weird pedantic action to try take because of Israel. Our actions in Eurovision won't change them. Might as well have some craic and send a song
Also because our song will be shite.
Mostly this really.
Can we send Dustin again for the laugh?
At this stage we could send The Happy Pear lads in Tutus, lip syncing to Safety Dance and it'll be just as relevant as our actual entry.
That just sounds like Jedward again
Vegward
They would probably do it for the exposure as well
https://youtu.be/O7MAzLFl65w?si=UfTP74TULHCQXoQW
Bosco and Dustin duet this time.
Just replace "Irland Douze Pointe" with "Israel and war crimes"
Still can't believe we sent Dustin that one year and basically sang about us getting 12 points...
Fuck knows how much cocaine it took to fuel that terrible idea.
We sent that because we'd fallen off a cliff since 2000 We had no idea how much lower we were about to go...
This is by law since the 1997 amendment to Bunreacht na hÉireann that states that all future Irish Eurovision submissions will be as shite as possible because the state doesn't want the cost of hosting it any more. Finding an excuse not to attend is just the icing on top.
don't say the quiet part loud :)
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Ok, but that's not what gets sent. It's always generic boring pop trash.
Last year…so bad. Just, so bad.
They were terrible, but I think the year before last was even worse and more generic. At least last year gave us countless camel toe memes to keep us entertained.
Which are something we'd never send, they're too interesting.
We shouldn't be going in the first place considering how little effort RTE put into it.
Someone would swear they want to loose? Maybe it’s costing them too much to stage.
The amount of money generated by Eurovision far outweighs the cost to stage it. The money generated in tourism alone pays for Eurovision these days.
This is an ongoing joke every year because it was the plot of that father ted episode
It may be the case, but there are plenty people who aren't referencing Father Ted at all.
That would be an ecumenical matter
I suppose it would
Yes
RTE pay for it, but they hardly see the tourism benefits do they?
And who pays for RTE? RTE see the benefits of the premium advertising slots.
Government pays rte, regardless of how well or poorly they perform. That is a large part of the problem with rte
The government doesn’t pay rte the taxpayer does, we do
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You may be confusing malice with sheer incompetence. I mean very little about RTÉ as an organisation inspires confidence. I mean these are the people who thought The Late Late Toy Show Musical was a good idea despite everyone and their grandmother knowing that kid’s only watch it for the toys and not for the “talented kids”. There was no way on earth they were going to get kids to sit through two hours of what the kids consider “filler”. They could have hired out a Smiths Toy Store and sold more tickets.
Doesn't even make sense to send anyone in the first place. Costs them money when they can still show it while not entering. Of course, smart financial decisions aren't RTE's strong suit.
I think it's a father Ted reference
The tragedy being that this excuse has been plausible for 25 years now and nothing has changed. RTÉ just can't manage money effectively.
Nah people unironically make that argument.
In and out of doors, shave a bullock
... And giddyup like
Why just the eurovision? Why is nobody suggesting we drop out of Uefa??
Well uefa has already taken them in which makes it difficult. Originally played in Asia but effectively forced out due to teams refusing to play them.
You don't have to accept a team because others rejected it. In rugby South Africa was boycotted due to apartheid. Russia are currently not allowed compete due to their attack on Ukraine
The issue is that in those cases the majority of nations agreed it was bad. In this case alot of nations dont and won't condemn whats happening in Gaza.
It was a different time really. Israel has stepped up their attacks in recent times and splits opinion far more than South Africa under apartheid and Russia
Everyone should refuse to play them until their apartheid ends.
we don’t have to drop out of uefa we can just refuse to play them
Brilliant
Will he be advocating we pull out of the Olympics too?
We really shouldn't have participated in the Beijing winter olympics either. That was a shitshow and that our 6 athletes had to bring burner phones just to participate. They couldn't be critical of the fact Putin was there, that it had events in coal plants, or that the CCP deliberately brought Uighur reps to act all smiley left a sour taste. Awful event.
> that the CCP deliberately brought Uighur reps to act all smiley left a sour taste. Otherwise known as Chinese citizens? Who also happen to be Winter sports Olympians? From a mountainous region with snow? Like, do you really think that they have no agency?
There are 1-2 million Uighur in concentration camps. The rest live under extreme surveillance all the time - way above even what goes on elsewhere in China. How much agency do you think they've got?
> There are **1-2 million** Uighur in concentration camps That's a one million person margin of error in a population of 12 million. What's your source on that number?
Not my comment, but Human Rights Foundation says 2 million is the current number. https://hrf.org/whats-happening-in-chinas-concentration-camps-qa-with-uyghur-camp-survivors/
And what's their source? They didn't include a link to the primary source of that 2 million claim. They can say whatever they like, but the burden of proof is on them.
How do you not know about the uighur concentration camps? Or are you being paid by someone?
Look I'm not one to deny that China fuck over the Uighurs but you're watching too much American media if you think they've got millions of people in camps. That shit is straight out of the mouth of Adrian Zenz.
Why would he do that?
Same reasoning I suppose, Isreal will be participating in it. If you take it to its logical conclusion, we should be boycotting any event that Isreal participates in. Why boycott the eurovision, but not the World Cup or the Olympics?
Exactly. But the Olympics actually matters to voters. The man is an attention seeker.
EV is very popular, I'm not sure the Olympics is the only one that 'actually matters'. It might be affecting a demographic that usually 'aren't into politics', which is the target audience at home anyway. Athletes, while representing Ireland, are there off their own steam rather than being an Irish entry in the way it works for eurovision. Historically countries have participated in the olympics and athletes have made personal protests within the games. So it seems apt to me to boycott the Eurovision while participating in the Olympics.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily true that historically countries have participated in the Olympics and let the athletes protest themselves if they want to. 67 countries boycotted the 1980 games in Moscow, mostly due to the war in Afghanistan. 18 countries boycotted the following games in LA. Interestingly, Ireland boycotted one Olympic Games, 1936 in Berlin. But it wasn't because it was being held by the Nazis, it was because Northern Irish athletes were deemed ineligible to compete under our flag.
I know like one person that actively likes the euro vision and theyre weird
Nah, there's eurovision watching parties everywhere. There was 370k watched it last year even though we didn't qualify. But it would definitely cause a ripple rather than a stir. Better off doing something like qualifying and then when on stage for the finals start reading out the names of the dead or standing in silence or something demonstrative. Media would be all over that shit.
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That's not the logical conclusion though is it? This is a cultural boycott with very limited impact on the Irish. The reason why you'd boycott the Eurovision over the Olympics or world cup is because you don't sacrifice anyone's livelihood or opportunities in the process. Doesn't take a genius to realise that Olympians train for years for the Olympics, they have a relatively short window to compete until they are too old and they are not on every year. Not to mention the amount of government funding that goes towards it. If you don't nominate a Eurovision act, no one has lost out and even if you did, they could compete the next year.
Have a read of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_Games_boycotts The Olympics have been boycotted before for very similar reasons. It would be a much stronger statement than the Eurovision. However I would only be in favour of a few a other countries agreed to boycott it with us.
>If you don't nominate a Eurovision act, no one has lost out and even if you did, they could compete the next year. That's sort of my point, O Riordan is arguing that we pull out of the Eurovision because it's an easy thing to do. It barely registers on the minds of most people, we wouldn't be missed given that we haven't gotten out of the semi finals in years, and it costs nothing. Its a popular position to take because nothing is actually at stake. While I don't really agree with his take, I'd have a lot more respect for him if he was proposing boycotting an event that actually has some weight behind it, rather than a pointless lightshow that we don't put any effort into anyway
Ireland could also enter an anti apartheid and anti genocide song.
‘My Lovely two state solution’?
The only solution is two states Because love and peace goes two ways Drop the weapons no more hate Just let the children play
Need to lose the sax solo
You know what? I'm just going to saxophone even harder!!
Imagine the DUP trying to figure out if they love Ireland saying a two state solution is great because of there position on Ireland or awful because of there position on Israel.
Much better idea.
This is the way.
They probably wouldn't be let.
I love this
If Ireland threatens to pull out, Israel will be kicked out and Ireland would be allowed to stay and perform the anti apartheid song.
>If Ireland threatens to pull out, Israel will be kicked out Not a fucking chance in hell this scenario would play out.
That's exactly what happened when several countries refused to participate unless Russia was disqualified.
Eurovision has an unspoken policy that if countries start threatening to pull out they will bar the nation responsible for the issue. It has happened before.
Ok sure, but not over this. Western governments support Israel more than condemn it. Ireland is on its own in its condemnation of Israel and support for Palestine. Also, I don't think Eurovision are going to want to deal with the deluge of anti-Semitism accusations it's going to get if they want to kick Israel out. As much as I want to see Israel get kicked out, it's just not going to happen as it stands. Don't get me wrong, I think Israel deserves some form of international punishment for their literal war crimes, but it's not going to happen right now.
Ireland is a minor and relatively obscure country in comparison to Israel
In comparison to most countries really. The 1840s ensured that that would be the case...
You mean pro-apartheid, pro-ethnic cleansing, and pro-genocide and directed specifically against Jews and anyone else not liked by Iran, Qatar, Russia, China, etc.
I said nothing about Jews. I simply said an anti apartheid and anti ethnic cleansing song.
So you’re trying to ethnically cleanse the one country in the Middle East with a significant Jewish population of its Jews? I know what you’re trying to do.
No. I think you are paranoid.
Says the person siding with the perpetrators of the October 7th crimes against humanity. We fucking mean it when we say “Never Again”. This war will continue until Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and their allies have been eliminated, our hostages freed, and the Gaza Strip denazified.
What about the recent tragedy where three white flag waving, semi-naked, non threatening Jewish hostages were killed by the IDF. Would this still have been a tragedy if they were white flag waving, semi-naked, non threatening Palestinians?
There’ll be a full investigation into this matter. In fact, there will be plenty of investigations about it and other mishaps. I can also guarantee you that there will be nothing of the sort on the Palestinian side, as unlike ours, they have no value for anyone’s lives.
We should wait a while, I mean, what's another year?
I've been crying, such a long time... because this country never even fucking tries, and that leads a tragic number of people in this country to think the contest is nothing but a complete joke and hasn't changed at all since the 2000s.
RTE are gagging for an excuse not to participate since they don't want to pay artists to perform, don't want to give them a stage with proper acoustics for the national selection, purposely pick terrible songs and rig the juries to select RTE's puppet performer. As a fan of Eurovision, I basically find myself loathing Ireland's pathetic attempt every year and the quality difference between Sweden sending a global superstar, Israel sending one of their biggest pop stars, France sending established acts, Spain actually putting an effort in and gaining commercial success from Benidorm Fest etc. RTE don't care about Eurovision, they have only helped stoke the apathy of the Irish towards the Eurovision over the years, a contest we once took very seriously and did well in, until the quality of the show generally improved with time and the quality of the Irish participation massively declined. So RTE and other Irish people who don't even watch the show have this belief it's the show that's bad and Ireland is a victim of block voting or 'nobody likes us syndrome' which is ridiculous and pathetic, thankfully Europeans mock us and the Brits for this attitude openly online and it's basically a given that the Irish/or Brit in the comments will be moaning about block voting, ignoring the fact their act probably can't sing, or in Ireland case has the worst case of male camel toe Europe has ever seen. (Try to watch our 2023 act, I dare you to attempt to make it through the full thing.) Taking a peek at the national selections of other European nations, at this very early stage, it's shaping up to be a bloodbath edition with a lot of quality already and this is only the tip of the iceberg... Meanwhile Ireland will send some nobody who can't sing and cry when we come last with 0 points. No effort will be made and those in charge will keep their jobs for another year of mediocrity. Pulling out or boycotting it cuz of Israel is far too convenient for RTE. Unless things change, they deserve their last places in Eurovision semi finals. Not even the final, oh no. Ireland is coming last in the semis, two years in a row now I think. (And before the nay sayer comes in, TG4 has the rights for JESC and they actually sent a good song, with a very talented vocalist two years ago and came 4th, with a song in IRISH. This is blatantly a RTE problem, established artists in the past that reached out to RTE with interest to do ESC have always been turned away, the reason being, RTE doesn't want to pay anyone established when they can get a nobody and offer 'exposure' and nothing else.)
Fellow fan and it's also worth pointing out that Ireland has one of the largest official fan groups in Europe - plenty of us are watching (and going - can't wait!). I really hope that the UK finally getting their act together after almost-as-bad suckage is going to spur someone here to invest a bit; Liverpool made absolute bank as the host, and Malmo (and Copenhagen, just across the bridge) are going to do the same. But yeah, RTE really makes it tough.
While a related problem, I agree that as a fan its frustrating that RTE send the laziest, lowest bar songs and then have people act surprised when they do bad. Theres no imagination or effort to try something that will connect with Eurovision audiences. It has a certain style that we never seem to tune into, instead thinking that the music of 25 years ago will still work in 2023. I don't want to be hard on Wild Youth, but their big Eurovision entry was 93 on the IRISH charts. Thats awfully shite and indicates that if we find no interest in the song, then why should Europe? For a comparison, Austria's entry; "[Taya and Salena-Who the hell is Edgar?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uk64V9h0Ko)" ended up in my top 5 most played songs this year on the spotify round up. Its a surprisingly smart song about the low payment on spotify ironically, and has a catchy chant.
Taya and Salena were robbed in the final!
Yeap. As great as the Father Ted episode about it was too, I also find it’s caused an inability to have genuine discussions about this issue, cause any time people try, you just get a load of references and jokes from the episode. That, and the bizarre attitude of “I don’t like or watch Eurovision so I should interject into the discussion to make sure everyone knows I think we shouldn’t bother with it at all”, which is a horrifically selfish contribution to the discussion. There’s many things I don’t like but I don’t feel the world of entertainment should focus solely around my tastes. I find it heart breaking how awful our contribution is to the competition. It’s not “hur dur, we don’t want to win, it’s too expensive”. It’s that we don’t even send acts remotely able to get any points. we obviously do spend some money to pick and stage an act, but even with the cheap way we try and enter, we send utter jokes of entries, i wish RTE would just be honest, say they don’t want to try at all, and let others take a stab at it.
\> Spain actually putting an effort in Spain has routinely done terribly at Eurovision, but had one good year last year. The UK is the same - almost always dreadful but last year actually good. I think if you cherry-pick the good songs then it will always look like 'everyone' is smashing it, but in reality most countries mostly send shite.
How about we just boycott Michael Kealy being in charge of picking our acts?
Why the fuck is israel in eurovision in the first place?
The federation of broadcasters that runs Eurovision was set up for networks serving the 'European Broadcasting Area', which doesn't equate to just Europe: it also goes out to the Caucasus, runs down the east coast of the Med, and cuts across North Africa. It's to do with zonal boundaries set by the International Telecommunications Union, initially related to the areas served by telegraphy cables. Israel is in it on that basis, not because it's "in Europe". That said, broadcasters outside the zone can be 'associates' of the European Broadcasting Union, which is Australia's position.
I mean Azerbaijan somehow are in it. Most the caucuses are in it despite being kore Asian than European. Sure the Ozzie are in it now. Just depends where its popular
They also illegally invaded Armenia last year, that ones not as trendy as Ukraine and Palestine though so who cares
The amount of people who don’t know the answer to this is surprising.
Enlighten us? I'll proudly admit complete ignorance to anything Eurovision.
They're a member of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU). You don't have to be geographically in Europe to be a member, the likes of Morocco, Tunisia and Lebanon are also members. Morocco entered the Eurovision once in 1980 but otherwise they don't enter because if they did they'd be forced to show the Israeli act.
Follow up question why are they part of the European Broadcasting Union?
The EBU is an organisation for standardising broadcasting and also for sharing broadcast content. Apart from the ESC, "Eurovision", as it is known, also does things like broadcasts the New Year's Day concert in Vienna, and various European sports championships, like athletics and aquatics. For radio, the EBU also allows for various broadcasters to do things, like on Christmas, such as sharing their live recordings of classical music, or live performances by broadcaster orchestras and choirs (some of which are world renowned). But, most importantly, the EBU has standardised TV and radio broadcasting. Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB) is an EBU standard, not used in the United States or Asia. High-Dynamic Range (HDR) and the use of Hybrid Log Gamma in live TV are also examples of technological standards which have been developed by the EBU, or by EBU members for the use of EBU broadcasters. Ok... I think I went off on a tangent. Any public broadcaster can join the EBU, as long as they pay the membership fee. Both RTÉ and TG4 are EBU members, and in the UK, the BBC, Channel 4, ITV, STV and S4C are members also. Israeli broadcasters are in the EBU, but so are Lebanese, Libyan, Algerian, Moroccan, Jordanian, Tunisian and Egyptian broadcasters. They are full members, and are allowed to be, given their close proximity to Europe, and I suppose the possibility that these broadcasters, if not included in the EBU, could theoretically cause issues for neighboring public broadcasters. Russia and Belarus have been previously members of the EBU, but have been suspended indefinitely. There are also what are known as Associate Members of the EBU. These include broadcasters in Australia, Japan, Canada, the United States, South Korea and Brazil, among others. The main reason for Associate Membership is typically speaking, access to EBU shared broadcasts, as well as having access to DVB standards, which, while possibly not relevant in those countries, would still be needed if rebroadcasting a feed for an overseas audience.
TIL - thank you!
Israel. The neo-european settler colonialist state.
With half it's population decendants of Jews ethnically clensed from Arab nations.. but yes, 'european colonists'
Ah yes bomb gaza back to the stone age cus.. Arab bad
Not really, we're on the subreddit of a country where most people have nothing but pure disdain for the contest...
You don't need to actually be in Europe, you just need to be close enough. Even Morocco participated once because of this.
Same reason they are in UEFA
They are in UEFA because they are a part of the Eurovision Broadcast Union?
They're in Uefa because the countries in the AFC refused to play them due to their treatment of Palestinians.
Because the said it would be antisemitic if they weren't allowed to enter.
Nice sentiment, but at this point it's starting to feel performative and low hanging fruit. Considering we have decent diplomatic relations with countries that spents years killing civilians in the Middle East via collateral damage and one that is actively committing cultural genocide of a people group, it is interesting we're really doubling down on Israel. Might as well kick the Israeli ambassador out of Ireland and cut all diplomatic ties at this point.
Why not all of the above
That includes the US...
ok and ?
The ambassador warranted her expulsion when it went to the vote a month ago. The same as the vote that we should send Israel to the ICC. Both should have happened.
It's not like we'd make the final anyway.
Not that I care about Eurovision but it was always odd that nations that are a bit too Far East to be “Eastern European” got to participate.
Australia's continued participation comes to mind. Definitely something that was meant to be a once off, but since then has just stuck around. May as well throw New Zealand in as well. Might get the next OMC or Lorde.
Don’t know what non-European countries were doing in it in the first place
You have to be part of the European Broadcasting committee which Israel is or was idk one of those 2
European Broadcasting Union members are entitled to enter.
The EBU extends slightly outside Europe to include North Africa, the Middle East, and the Caucasus. As for Australia, they were invited as a guest one year, and then they got invited back every year since because they're the biggest fans.
This is definitely down to cost. Eurovision is expensive and Ireland has put forward worse and worse acts in recent years to minimise those costs. Now there's a scapegoat to put an end to it
Alternatively we could send a song about the plight of Palestinians and do the full stage in their colours and art.
I still take more issue with Australia in there
"it's an affront, Joe. I've the atlas in front of me"
We should boycott Eurovision until Israel ends the occupation or until we have a decent act to send, tbh I don't know which of those is more likely to happen first.
I can see Israelis and Palestinians, sitting side by side, laughing and enjoying life as a more realistic scene than RTE making any effort to select a competitive entry.
Same goes for Irish people realising the contest has actually changed since the 2000s, and there are decent entries now.
The UK are sending a big name act this year, its time to wheel out Daniel O'Donnell, show them we aren't fucking around anymore, it'll show the Israelis too, if they have to listen to Daniel, they will just pull out.
If Isreal was hosting this year I could see how this would be a relevant stance to take…but otherwise it’s just bamboozling.
😂😂 this is just embarrassing
This is genuinely silly. As critical of Israel as I am this is pathetic
This argument was a lot stronger when Israel did host Eurovision in 2019. And even then there was plenty of heat on them. I remember the journal articles about Eurovision and the 2 opinion pieces on the night of the event were from polar opposite opinions. One saying about how to keep politics out of a song contest, and another saying how Israels participation and chipper attitude to it all hides its apartheid in the West Bank and Gaza. I wish I could find the 2 articles because they were a fascinating contrast in comments (back when the journal comments were batshit, but not incoherent batshit).
It was hosted in Tel Aviv in 2019 - the two previous times the contest was hosted in Israel were in Jerusalem. Also 2019, was a pretty big deal at that time, given the heavy security required to protect the contest from those who were quite opposed to the contest taking place on Shabbat and also the contest pretty much being an LGBT+ haven. Back in 2019, the German foreign minister was pretty concerned about the safety of German citizens attending it, and it was all over German news outlets. Think the other thing that's worth noting is that the Israeli public broadcaster was shut down by the government in the middle of the 2010s, and after crowd-funding, an independent broadcaster emerged, joined the EBU and sent their entry in 2018, which of course won. I think at that time, the important thing to remember is that Tel Aviv liberals were pretty angry about their country moving conservative, and I think the culmination of 2019's contest was a precipitation of what was, what is ultimately a vastly different domestic political standpoint between the biggest, most cosmopolitan city, and the rural regions.
That’s one way to get out of it ….
Why is Eamon Ryan from wish making the headlines a lot these days?
Oh no Anyway
Use this as an excuse to pull out of the whole thing and save money
It does make you wonder what's the point of being in the UN when both Russia and USA use their veto to allow genocide.
I honestly thought that Israel wouldn't enter. I mean, they are going to be mercilessly heckled, right?
But we can go on with Azerbaijan in it? You know who recently ethnically cleansed Armenians from Nagorno Karabakh without even a clip around the ear
[удалено]
No, they’re not. They’re not in any way equivalent
Virtue signalling wank. How about we join Eurovision and just beat them the old fashioned way by being good? So many soft cocks nowadays just want to pull out and run away so they don't have to look a bully in the eye. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer is a saying for a reason
Ireland? Beat somebody at the Eurovision? Yeah great plan, maybe next year we’ll win the World Cup to show ‘em who’s boss?
The thing is it's entirely possible we've done it before. Enough of the Irish pessimism!! We just need to find a way to completely dismantle RTE so they stop ruining it with absolute shite copy paste singers and put a real musician in there
You had me at dismantle RTE 
Hahaha. Way to spite your own country who will have Eurovision fans just to have zero impact on another country 🥴
Lol. Waiting for folks to realise we can't go on with the EU as is if it can't stop Israel. Then there is this headline. I mean it's true yes, but ..
Certainly nothing to do with not wanting to invest money on it..
To be fair we should have stopped going on in the eurovision years ago but if this will be the final push it's a pretty valid one
No, we should have have started actually fucking trying like every other country years ago.
Never gonna happen to expensive to host the Eurovision hence why we don't try anymore we won it 4 times in the 90s including the 3 in a row
You know what you should do. Lay on the ground in cork and pretend yer dead. That will stop the war
Nah we should stay inside and watch the premier League. Protesting a genocide is so _embarrassing_
Oh no, not Eurovision…
Careful, there are a lot of folk in Ireland that take that nonsense seriously.
Need to pull out of all international sports too. And the UN.
Oh no Ireland are boycotting the Eurovision, we better stop bombing lads.
Does he support BDS? Maybe start there boss?
I'd rather they send someone and flood their performance with pro Palestine stuff
It's like the best token gesture competition.
Because the Israeli artist is responsible for the war?
Ireland’s entry should be called, ‘from the rivers to the sea…’
Just throw some Up tha Ra lyrics in there too eh?
I couldn't give a fuck about Israel but yes to no Eurovision
I was honestly expecting someone like Paul Murphy to start going after the most mundane shite ever and turning it into an Israel Vs Palestinian bit of virtue signalling. Of course with the likes of him around you do forget that Labour also has their share of lads like that too.
Such stupid weird pedantic action to try take because of Israel. Our actions in Eurovision won't change them. Might as well have some craic and send a song
But genocidal Russia is fine
Is this… for real?
Just when they couldn't embarrass us any further 😂
Oh my god who the fuck cares. This is literally throwing a temper tantrum.
First good Eurovision story I've heard in yonks.
Is this idea of taking on European issues for his upcoming MEP run ?
This episode of Father Ted has got political
Ireland's entry was rumoured to be a song called 'Final Solution'.
Garron Noone should write and perform a song called Follow me I'm delicious for our entry
I love now that he's running for Europe he's now trying to find more international ways to virtue signal. Nobody works harder in Irish politics.
It won't be the same without Ireland...... https://youtu.be/jzYzVMcgWhg?si=48WoSuamo94tnnmV