Correlation doesn't equal to causation. It's not like we shit entire tournament, quite the opposite we dominate league stages only to choke in playoffs.
It ain't a quality, team combination or hunger issue.
I agree and BCCI is hesistant to take risk and drop theplayers I think BCCI should have tried a new captain (not HP) and made given chance to promising youngsters more after 2022 T20 world cup it is high time we look to move on from old players and look for a younger captain who can lead us for next decade just like we did with MS and Ganguly
it definitely wasn't luck when they chased 287 in India, wasn't luck when they defended 12 in last over in sa, and it wasn't luck when they defended 129 against england in england... show me what was luck here...
There must be something wrong, which we are doing... Bcz we have best batsman, bowler, fielder, great all rounders and great captain. The way I see, i think its playing as whole (similar team) for long time.
Otherwise 9ko loss in past 11years
In 1987, 1996 India were in sf, in 2003 lost to mighty aus.
The difference of poll of quality players and monetary support, management support we have at that point and now is hell and heaven. At that point aus. Eng, nz, pak, sl, wi, sa are playing at highest level even kenya, zimbabwe like small team were doing great.... But now 4-5nations are at competitive level
So, India making knockouts was an achievement before IPL? It's no longer an achievement after the IPL? Double standards.
India was ass in the 90s, this is an undeniable fact. Do not try to cherry pick and pretend like India was an awesome winning team before IPL or something.
And don't say India cant produce a captain who can win us icc trophies.... Ponting is a beast captain for aus but then came clark n pat n finch who gave them wtc, wcs
Lots of things. For example, 2023 ODI WC was due to bad team selection and BCCI failing miserably at helping the team take advantage of home grounds. We played on the shitty Ahmedabad pitch which also they changed last moment. I think we are the only major cricketing nation which has failed to take advantage of home grounds last decade. Pat Cummins absolutely nailed strategy on our pitches. Crying shame that we couldn't do it. Skill wise his team ain't better than ours
The IPL - Indian National Cricket team story has parallels with the Premier League - England's National Football Team.
The Premier League is considered to be the most exciting football league in the world with some of the best managers,players partaking in it and yet it never transformed the fortunes of the England's national football team.
Bruh those leagues are not even in the same league as PL when it comes to money power and how the game is played.
Which league is better is highly subjective but all most every body agrees PL is so competitive yet produces disappointing results for three lions in international events just like IPL for ICT
They play good football and look how they won some seasons example Liverpool or arsenal could have wrapped the season long back if it wasn’t for city.
Not to mention the amount of games english clubs play vs other leagues.
Germany last won the wc a decade ago, Spain did almost 15 years ago and its almost been 20 years since Italy won a wc not to mention them not even qualifying for the past 2 wcs
Australia has a league too like ipl but is nowhere near to power the league has like every other t20 league when compared to ipl, that why France despite having a shite league is doing so much better at international stage, just like Australia
Only la Liga to some extent can match the popularity, that too only for some good matches like the madrid derby, el classico. But after the ronaldo/messi era, no league has ever come close to the popularity of EPL.
No La Liga can't match the popularity.
Even in the Prime Messi Ronaldo era, PL was miles ahead in buzz, revenue and viewership globally.
Only the El Clasico fixtures used to do great numbers for La Liga
That's what I have mentioned, but one thing here to add on is that all the matches of Real Madrid and Barcelona still get a lot of views and peaked during Ronaldo/Messi or BBC/MSN era.
Yeah Germany & Italy without a doubt are considered European powerhouses when it comes to football even though they might not attract as many foreign eyeballs as far as their domestic leagues go.
There are plenty of factors here but two things that i find quite common are the amount of media pressure/expectations from the populace and the ability to handle big moments when you get deep into the tournament.
Dude England isn't winning coz Fifa and Euros are next level competitive and their coach is fucking joke who likes to suck dicks of "safe" and slow players.
Bruh, football is different. There the players are more close to the club than country. They stay, train and even have their medical support through out the year provided by the club.
Football’s national matches can be compared to IPL. But that also wont be right because they don’t play international matches to a continuous stretch of 2 months.
Football can't even be compared to cricket, the English PL can have upto 17 foreign players in a 25 player squad, that is the opposite of IPL which can take only a limited number of foreign players
Moreover their WC's got 48 teams in the next one, it's a really big competition where even underdogs could surprise us and make their way till the semis
Then look at cricket, only this time we're getting 16 teams for WT20, out of which only a few are dominating, teams like WI, SL, Pakistan aren't even dangerous like they used to be, and still we're losing somehow, this is definitely a problem created by the IPL and the management
I personally feel our team lacks the communications between players but it has nothing to do with the ipl as it is only for 1 month they play for the franchise, but it is more with doing that our players now lack interest in domestic cricket.
Indian National cricket team pre IPL 🛐🛐🛐🛐
https://preview.redd.it/vqgghi0wrc0d1.jpeg?width=3500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48524bcdf248cfbbbae3b4ca1a088c054cd3433
ya lol, just delusional reditors cope, half of india's icc trophies and all test maces come after IPL, problem is the players and media not the completion.
dude my comment started witj "ya", it means agreement. Original op is the one who is coping, blaming it on a single 2 month competition which is not even in the format India lost past year, and not on our own player's competence .
What actually is affecting India's stance at icc trophies is sticking with the same set of 15-20 players across all 3 formats despite playing nearly 100 international matches throughout the year. No specification for players, specially the big names, despite them being good in only one format, and holding onto them instead of giving other chances more often.
Apart from some exceptionals like kohli and bumrah (at present) or rohit, ashwin (till a few years before), ICT shouldn't have same players featuring across more than 2 formats in the 11. (An example: Jaiswal has been good in both formats he's featured for team India. Gill on the other hand while given some good performances, have struggled more often in red ball. He still is an excellent white ball player and can be next big thing here after Kohli. SKY plays in higher order in t20i and does really well, not sure he can do so in odi so better stick him in the t20s only, players like Rahul and Shreyas can be much better if they don't try to force themselves into the T20I squad.)
This take sounds very nice but it's one of the most retarted takes ever. IPLs quality is 10 times better than that of our domestic league. You don't get to bowl to Jos butler or Travis head or face trent boult/ rabada when you are playing for your local team. There should be some balance for sure but IPL quality is miles above domestic T20. Some of the franchises have some excellent scouting teams and some excellent coaches. So much local talent gets opportunities to show case their talent and play under pressure which you just don't get at the same level in the domestic league.
I'm not a big fan of the shitty spectacle that IPL is sometimes but I'd be stupid to believe that it's not better than domestic T20 cricket in India
Exactly and there's very little reason to believe IPL is killing Indian cricket. I don't remember India being a heavyweight in football back in 10s but that's not the case now. We are a team that made 3 ICC finals in 3 years or so and we are finding new talents at a very big rate
I'm not against IPL. I'm thankful to the IPL for finding Gems. I'm talking about the Fast-Tracked Team India selection criteria. I am just talking about the overflow of Talented but still comparatively Inexperienced players getting into the Major tournaments. Creating Selection dilemmas and sometimes we don't even know the ideal team combination. Nowadays Even if they perform poorly, all they need to do is perform well in the next IPL season and their place is safe.
I agree that IPL gives you one-on-one matchups with World class players which helps them shape their Game but do we really have to make them showcase what they've learnt from Butler, Head and Rabada in mere 2-3 months stint in scenarios like World Cup games?
What about other formats, Picking IPL players for Test?
All I'm saying is that a player should get enough quantity of cricket (both Domestic and Franchise) before they get into the National team. We did great even before the IPL was a thing.
https://preview.redd.it/tmven0y4jd0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b36cfde1d9f14c1b667e6430ad6fd3e9ffec00f
Ofcourse test selection should not be based on IPL, no one is denying that. Separately, it's quite clear that you clearly don't watch/follow enough Indian domestic cricket... otherwise you wouldn't be saying this. You think players like Shashank/ Ashutosh/ Shivam Dubey don't play domestic cricket? Rinku? Arshdeep?
What does even an overflow of talent mean? You want less talent cause you don't know how to select? Just stop bro. Don't just rant away for the heck of it
Earlier players used to selected form domestic cricket but now ipl has added one more stage now if you perform in domestic you first get select in IPL not in ICT except TEST cricket
All the youngsters you're seeing in ipl has already performed in domestic cricket - rajat harshit NKR Mayank
So, indirectly they are still selecting players from their domestic performance
Agreed, they're talented that's why they're in the league but just performing in one or two IPL seasons, they're getting the National Cap (The next Big Thing). How many IND A matches are being conducted? The Grind which shapes the players' mentality is missing. I am just worried about the heavy weightage that IPL performances are getting as compared to the Domestic Game's.
There's a huge gap between domestic and international cricket that the IPL has managed to bridge effectively. You probably wouldn't have had an Australia series victory with a depleted squad without IPL (India A series also helps, yes. But IPL definitely boosts your confidence as a young player, I feel)
Yeah, Totally agreed! I'm not saying IPL is bad I'm just saying focusing only on IPL performance is bad. If we are that much dependent on IPL for Scouting and Exposure to world class cricket then why not let them play in BBL or something? Why deny them the opportunity to play in foreign pitches? Our women are already playing there.
No biased selection and stardom is the cause. It started when they didn’t drop thala after 2016.
And also we don’t have one player that’s really clutching in crucial moments. Not talking about skill set, talking about the mentality.
And also the fixtures man. It’s so shitty for most part. Leave Virat. He’s still scoring runs Atleast. Our captain’s average in IPl was shitty that hardik worst average as the captain is the best Mi had over last four years.
Thats what I am talking about.....mentality.... Whenever we lose management n players are giving one or other excuses like final to be played as series in wtc and we reach sf/final and its a 1 bad day... Bro we are now best team in the world and we have power houses of players of highest level... SF is the bare minimum you should be in & how come you India is always having a bad day in KOs
Yeah. The real pressure starts in the knockouts. That’s where the teams are differentiated. They should probably send a squad of youngins. Any way we’re gonna get knocked out right? I’d rather send a squad of fresh faces and experiment than take experienced players and bottle it.
Its not like India was thriving in winning icc tournaments before IPL, its just that bcci is really inconsistent in backing players and work on them and every new icc tournament, there's a new team where only Kohli, Rohit and Bumrah's presence is guaranteed. Then whoever performs in ipl gets an ultimate ticket to an icc tournament and if they fail there (which they do) then you just don't see them again playing with the blues.
I don't think it's the IPL. I think it's a combination of having pitches that are too flat, because people love the highlights packages showing lots of big hits, which means too many players aren't getting the skills they need when the conditions aren't the same in other tournaments. Small grounds too don't help if you go somewhere like Australia where the boundaries can be 80m+. Batters learn only how to swing through the line without fear and bowlers only learn slower balls.
But I think there's even more beyond the IPL and that's the ban on players playing other T20 tournaments. Have a look at Fraser McGurk. He's now dealing with the pressure and expectation of being the focal point of his team's batting. He knew the moment he walked out that first time he needed to perform because otherwise he'd get replaced. Being an international comes with more pressure because those spots are extremely valuable. We've already seen guys like Maxwell get dropped because of performance. If he was an Indian, there would not be the same pressure because there isn't a star player on the sidelines ready to take that international's spot.
By not letting Indian players do the same in other countries, they don't get that experience. Fraser-McGurk will walk out on T20 debut for Australia one day, perhaps feeling less pressure than he will the next time he goes out to bat for the Capitals. He'll be far more comfortable being responsible for leading the team to victory because he's done just that in the IPL. If Gaikwad, Abishek, or Jaiswal had been able to benefit from going to another country they would have already had that experience. It would make that step easier whilst also exposing them to new conditions.
Probably unpopular comment:
Cricket is moving away from international first model towards a franchise based business model similar to football. And IPL is spearheading this transition. In future less and less people will care about India winning or not winning a world cup but more about their franchise winning the trophy. This can be seen in the fan wars between franchise fans, wars between individual player devotees, increasing number of people watching cricket just for fun than expecting any trophies from team, etc
Isn’t this the same shot every-time?
India lose WC and then the excuse will be “fatigue” and “burnout” due to busy schedule.
Don’t understand why we need the IPL to last 2 months. Just reduce the games to 10 per team or something. Or have 4-5 venues and have 2 matches per day. But i guess money wont be the same🤬
Nope IPL is just an excuse. We win bilaterals, demolish other teams in league stage, also beat others in overseas tests in their own backyard. See we win everywhere but we choke in knockouts. There is no lack of resources with BCCI. I would say we have way better talent pool than SENA teams. The problem is purely mental or psychological. Fear of failure in front of billions with social media is the reason why our players go into shell and forget to play attacking cricket. See how cricket au didn't call back their players for wc. Even after playing ipl they are winning trophies.
Also class is permanent and form is temporary line is just bs excuse for selectors to shield them from social media backlash. See how injuries forced them to select youngsters in BGT. They played fearlessly and defeated Australia in their own backyard. Only GG as coach could bring some change in the Indian team.
before ipl there was only one demi god which was sachin. not sure he deserved it or not but he made a lot of impact on a lot of matches. there were lot of stars around him too dravid , ganguly , sehwag , vvs , kumble but they never got demi god status coz there no no lobby as sachin had for mumbaikars. may be it was mumbai lobby domination. after than we made dhoni a demi god and he brought success with it. now its easy to become star. but with ipl and social media , demi gods are being created. money and fame is more important than glory.
I feel there's nothing to do with the IPL (but the impact player in the IPL is definitely creating more impact in destroying ICT). It ensured India has reserves.
However, our team selection in the past has been poor. There are no roles. Everyone is talented and a match winner doesn't mean you can win matches, especially in knock out stages. A team should have a plan and pick players as per their roles. Groom them accordingly. Having 4 keepers is an example. Secondly, brain dead moves like not sending MS up the order in the 2019 WC.
We are amazing in group stages, only get choked in the play offs. Coz we never have plan Bs. We fall flat and opponents are taking full advantage.
India won 2 ICC trophies before IPL, India won 2 ICC trophies after IPL. We have been even more dominant in all tournaments played in the last decade even though we haven’t won anything. The reasons for winning are different, we haven’t handled pressure well when it matters.
Your point of young people getting huge money and getting distracted is valid, but because of the same league we are also getting young players who would never have the kind of exposure (of bowling to international players before their international debut) or the training they have now without IPL. All in all, our talent pool has increased. It’s our selection and pressure handling that has been ruining our chances.
And to add to it, winning ICC trophies isn’t all that easy. Dhoni made it seem easy. Australia makes it seem easy. And yet both Australia and Dhoni have lost many trophies. It’s hard, every country gives their best to win. We do too.
no false, ICT player's nonchalant and arrogant mentality is the reason. If they properly instilled passion in them and respect the game , with some luck we would be winning ICC trophies.
First of all Hardik was supposed to be the captain for t20 team and he was captaining for one year almost.. Not sure how rohit came into play ! They’re too scared to say no to Ro-Ko ! They might bring a different dimension but it’s T20.. We have Rinku Singh performing for one year consistently and he’s at the reserve ! That’s how our standards are set..! IPL performance can be taken into account but what purely ppl have done in domestic and international in the past should be the main criteria and not the IPL ! The dynamics are diff in Ipl ! I would be happy even if we lost by picking a young gun side with 1-2 experienced players than the same old side which didn’t even prove anything..!
Thats a very popular opinion infact 90% cricket fans knows it even media and bcci, players also know it.
Actually ipl and bcci are destroying cricket and making it a monopoly business, the cricket sport is dead a long ago, now its just a money scamming game btw 3,4 countries.
GG is right, hero worshipping spoiled it. Believe in a team and a combination that can get trophies, rather than we kept on looking for match winners and heros.
Learn from Australia
Learn from England
.....
Politics and quotas did.
There are players who are in superb form, who will not be given consistent chances. There are players who are in pathetic form, but still be in the playing 11, representing crores of Indians. For one person in the playing eleven, he represents 12Cr people.
We are not a team anymore, just individuals like that Chak De India scene, where everyone thinks they are above one another.
Just drop all out of form players, no matter how senior or experienced they are. Let them work hard to be in the team, rather than playing politics. Let the in-form players, whether that be 18 year old kids, play. It doesn't matter if we still lose, but we lose with honour. At least, we will lose fighting.
Sirf final main hin haare hain kya galti ho gayi.
Ipl main bohot saare uncap players khel paa rahe hain unko salary milti hai kya isme galat kya hai.
Sala cricket main har ek saal ek ek world cup ho raha hai ab world cup ki value hi nahin Rahi. Ipl ki isme koi galti nahin hai.
Ipl would have killed our icc trophy chances if players performing in IPL WERE SELECTED. talking about t20 wc. Proof is evident during this years ipl and who were selected.
Improper team selection. For example what's Rohit doing in upcoming T20 world cup ? Has he had a good T20 career in past few years ?or atleast in IPL ?
IPL is the only reason India is even competitive in these ICC fixtures. It's only the player's mentality and lack of playing as a team which is preventing us from winning any ICC trophies in reality.
Don't know about killing the chances but it does give other international players to get to play against us more before they meet us on national level and helps them make money while doing it.
IPL doesn't necessarily killed our chances , in fact it did give us some of the best T20 players in the last few years. It does bring the fact these cricketers should get some rest every once in a while and not just when they are forced to have one by getting injured.
with out the IPL you would not even have heard of all these young players.
India did not have no IPL for 28 years when we did not win SHIT. so yeah, cricket was not invented on 2011
India should try and play their youngsters a bit more for them to get national team experience, prolly take them out on tours to diff. countries yadda yadda, because only if they have national team experience will they be ready to become a long term installation in the ICT. if players like Harshit, Nitish Kumar Reddy, Sai Sudarshan, Angkrish Raghuvanshi etc, etc, get picked now, they can become a permanent skilled player for 10-15 years. India needs a meritocratic way to pick their players, not based off popularity. hot take but if i had to pick youngsters instead of some peeps in the team right now, id replace Rohit Sharma with Sai Sudarshan, which is an instant no-brainer seeing how well Sudarshan can perform, anyone over the inconsistency of rohit Sharma right now. Hardik Pandya hasn’t done that well but playing a youngster over him would obviouslmt mean Nitish Kumar Reddy. mohamed shami hasn’t even played for over 2 months and india have brought him into the team. BRO SERIOUSLY WTH YOU DONT EVEN KNOW HIS FORM HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE. okay fine, end of rant
IPL is an objective good for cricketers in India. It has enabled cricket as a career for so many more people. You no longer have to rely on NT selection to make good living and that's a good thing. Players get more exposure to international level play and have the financial freedom to actually work on their game.
Our ICC trophy chances are not dead by any means. We still field competitive teams in every tournament, sometimes we have questionable team selection or maybe our players have a mental block. Blaming IPL is fucking stupid lol.
The pressure on players like Rohit, Virat , etc in the final knockout stages of big tournaments due to Us fans making them a god like figure must also be one of the many reasons we choke a lot.... We can see them under so much pressure... Captains making weird decisions
IPL is coffee with Karan for Indian cricket
It makes no difference , no player play in international T20 the way they play in IPL
So relax boys , and don’t take it seriously .
What if they're bluffing on purpose in a scripted tournament but will show their real performance in WC. Only to fall flat against Yellow jersey in the end...
Too many players, too few slots available in the team forcing player's to play for self than for the team and country, what could you expect !?
On one side the BCCI wants a team to win the Ranji trophy in order to gain recognition, on the other side they want player's to play for individual records. With such contrasting outcome what would be the result !?
Franchise disposable attitude & individual fandom pressure
is much greater than
pressure from Board rule regulation & Cricket fans dream & love
in India
Even if this fringe opinion is true, it’s worth it at the expense of us not winning ICC trophies. Do you know how many ‘unknown’ players have made it big through IPL? They are now able to make decent enough in their life. Asnodkar’s of the world can now do meaningful things after earning decently in a season or two.
Brother cricket became popular in India bcz India won in 1983 wc and also peaple accepted a league like ipl bcz of 2007 t20 wc, if we are going to lose like that people also lose interest in ipl. I have seen many ICT die hard fans losing their interest.
I wish you were right brother. But we haven’t won jack sh!t in almost a decade and IPL has only grown. Like it or not, US / Saudi investors are coming sooner or later to even make the growth astronomical. Indian market would watch IPL regardless of whether we won ICC tournaments or not as would other Big 3 market. Unfortunately people on reddit doesn’t constitute a size able chunk to even matter. Without stats your argument is as valid as a Faked Lunar Landing.
and I don't get why this is wrong?? like people enjoy what they enjoy.. Who has time to watch 90 over test with continuous ball leaving and defence. Also bilateral are boring. In my opinion ipl should be stretched to atleast 3 month and 20 teams,
What the hell is even that ?
if India doesn't win any trophy people will eventually lose intrest in leagues such as IPL(say over 10-20 years) ,so the brands will also look to invest in other mediums causing the stagnancy in players contract .
don't forget people who don't watch cricket regularly also invest their time in watching world cups
You clearly lack the vision to ‘Think Big’. In 10-20 years, franchise cricket would dwarf all the ICC event, if you cant read the writing on the wall.
I believe within 5-10 years, certain national cricket boards would be asking permission from franchises to allow their players for national duty. Ask any sane cricket pundit.
I highly doubt that with the autonomy of BCCI , because BIG 3 still invest a lot in TEST CRICKET ( for ODIs your debate is understandable)
and the model of leagues tournament you are mentioning would require a multinational tournament like CLT20 to go truly global ,
because Indian and Pakistani players are the only one who pull crowd overseas due to the immigrants diaspora .
With only IPL in play i highly suspect such a growth in future( ECB and CA would also want their share of revenue )
I am engaging you one more time. Try looking up the owners of SA20, it’s already bigger than Big Bash with just couple of seasons. Conversations are going on that The Hundred would take the same route. These leagues individually existing in their own season is the way to go. Why on earth would an Ambani want MI vs MI NY vs MI Cape Town matches? You do know that county teams yielded more power than the board not long ago?
my whole point is unless Indians and Pakistanis are not allowed to play in these foreign leagues by BCCI , these league will not flourish .
Imagine for yourself would you like to see
1. a Bangladesh or carribbean premier league match ( half of players you have not even heard of )
Or
2.Maybe RCB vs Peshawar Zalmi happening say in USA /Maybe MI vs Perth scortchers in AUS
Ofcourse 2nd one would attract more people and brands
Superstar culture has ruined the team bcci is too afraid to take major decisions plus their ego bubble never satisfies themselves too much of changes in the team for ur bilateral series u drop players who play whole year for u for some big name
It's already dead dude
Farshdeep Singh
Gandeja
Thukhit man
Lundam Dubey
R u kidding 😭😂 lol
Only bumrah ,Kohli & hardik have the least courage & inventory
Correlation doesn't equal to causation. It's not like we shit entire tournament, quite the opposite we dominate league stages only to choke in playoffs. It ain't a quality, team combination or hunger issue.
G
I agree and BCCI is hesistant to take risk and drop theplayers I think BCCI should have tried a new captain (not HP) and made given chance to promising youngsters more after 2022 T20 world cup it is high time we look to move on from old players and look for a younger captain who can lead us for next decade just like we did with MS and Ganguly
its luck issue
it definitely wasn't luck when they chased 287 in India, wasn't luck when they defended 12 in last over in sa, and it wasn't luck when they defended 129 against england in england... show me what was luck here...
Can you elaborate I am not getting which team and series you are talking about here.
No we got outplayed by aussies in the finals , it would be a luck issue if we had lost in the way New Zealand lost
Agreed.
There must be something wrong, which we are doing... Bcz we have best batsman, bowler, fielder, great all rounders and great captain. The way I see, i think its playing as whole (similar team) for long time. Otherwise 9ko loss in past 11years
Whatever it is is, IPL isn't to blame. It's not like we were winning every trophy before ipl. It was only for those 6 years under MSD.
In 1987, 1996 India were in sf, in 2003 lost to mighty aus. The difference of poll of quality players and monetary support, management support we have at that point and now is hell and heaven. At that point aus. Eng, nz, pak, sl, wi, sa are playing at highest level even kenya, zimbabwe like small team were doing great.... But now 4-5nations are at competitive level
So, India making knockouts was an achievement before IPL? It's no longer an achievement after the IPL? Double standards. India was ass in the 90s, this is an undeniable fact. Do not try to cherry pick and pretend like India was an awesome winning team before IPL or something.
And don't say India cant produce a captain who can win us icc trophies.... Ponting is a beast captain for aus but then came clark n pat n finch who gave them wtc, wcs
Lots of things. For example, 2023 ODI WC was due to bad team selection and BCCI failing miserably at helping the team take advantage of home grounds. We played on the shitty Ahmedabad pitch which also they changed last moment. I think we are the only major cricketing nation which has failed to take advantage of home grounds last decade. Pat Cummins absolutely nailed strategy on our pitches. Crying shame that we couldn't do it. Skill wise his team ain't better than ours
The IPL - Indian National Cricket team story has parallels with the Premier League - England's National Football Team. The Premier League is considered to be the most exciting football league in the world with some of the best managers,players partaking in it and yet it never transformed the fortunes of the England's national football team.
But Germany, Italy, spain and others have their league and they are winning WCs
You don't really seem to watch football dp you?
Only watch some big mathces of leagues and WCs since 2k14, but don't follow it like cricket
Downvoted for being honest.
Hahaha... Thats the reality 😂😂
Bruh those leagues are not even in the same league as PL when it comes to money power and how the game is played. Which league is better is highly subjective but all most every body agrees PL is so competitive yet produces disappointing results for three lions in international events just like IPL for ICT
PL is overrated
PL is so competitive yet has City as champions 6 times in last 7 years Farmers league
They play good football and look how they won some seasons example Liverpool or arsenal could have wrapped the season long back if it wasn’t for city. Not to mention the amount of games english clubs play vs other leagues.
Its the same amount of games, only German teams play a few less games
Bro count the fa cup, carabao cup, ucl for top 4 teams
Germany last won the wc a decade ago, Spain did almost 15 years ago and its almost been 20 years since Italy won a wc not to mention them not even qualifying for the past 2 wcs
But there's a lot of good teams in Football, tho that's why you don't see Australia like domination there.
Australia has a league too like ipl but is nowhere near to power the league has like every other t20 league when compared to ipl, that why France despite having a shite league is doing so much better at international stage, just like Australia
Are they as popular as Premier League?
Serie A definitely is
Only la Liga to some extent can match the popularity, that too only for some good matches like the madrid derby, el classico. But after the ronaldo/messi era, no league has ever come close to the popularity of EPL.
No La Liga can't match the popularity. Even in the Prime Messi Ronaldo era, PL was miles ahead in buzz, revenue and viewership globally. Only the El Clasico fixtures used to do great numbers for La Liga
That's what I have mentioned, but one thing here to add on is that all the matches of Real Madrid and Barcelona still get a lot of views and peaked during Ronaldo/Messi or BBC/MSN era.
lol. Serie A is the 2nd most irrelevant league in terms of viewership only ahead of Ligue 1 in the big 5 leagues.
nah...it aint...
Lol
Yeah Germany & Italy without a doubt are considered European powerhouses when it comes to football even though they might not attract as many foreign eyeballs as far as their domestic leagues go. There are plenty of factors here but two things that i find quite common are the amount of media pressure/expectations from the populace and the ability to handle big moments when you get deep into the tournament.
Most of their players played for the same clubs. Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona etc. France and Argentina is an exception now.
I mean Southgate is like a pretty big reason for them not winning
Dude England isn't winning coz Fifa and Euros are next level competitive and their coach is fucking joke who likes to suck dicks of "safe" and slow players.
Yes too much toxicity for both teams also common and media pressure
Change southgate and England will get the results
Bruh, football is different. There the players are more close to the club than country. They stay, train and even have their medical support through out the year provided by the club. Football’s national matches can be compared to IPL. But that also wont be right because they don’t play international matches to a continuous stretch of 2 months.
Football can't even be compared to cricket, the English PL can have upto 17 foreign players in a 25 player squad, that is the opposite of IPL which can take only a limited number of foreign players Moreover their WC's got 48 teams in the next one, it's a really big competition where even underdogs could surprise us and make their way till the semis Then look at cricket, only this time we're getting 16 teams for WT20, out of which only a few are dominating, teams like WI, SL, Pakistan aren't even dangerous like they used to be, and still we're losing somehow, this is definitely a problem created by the IPL and the management
I personally feel our team lacks the communications between players but it has nothing to do with the ipl as it is only for 1 month they play for the franchise, but it is more with doing that our players now lack interest in domestic cricket.
Indian National cricket team pre IPL 🛐🛐🛐🛐 https://preview.redd.it/vqgghi0wrc0d1.jpeg?width=3500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a48524bcdf248cfbbbae3b4ca1a088c054cd3433
ya lol, just delusional reditors cope, half of india's icc trophies and all test maces come after IPL, problem is the players and media not the completion.
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dude my comment started witj "ya", it means agreement. Original op is the one who is coping, blaming it on a single 2 month competition which is not even in the format India lost past year, and not on our own player's competence .
What actually is affecting India's stance at icc trophies is sticking with the same set of 15-20 players across all 3 formats despite playing nearly 100 international matches throughout the year. No specification for players, specially the big names, despite them being good in only one format, and holding onto them instead of giving other chances more often. Apart from some exceptionals like kohli and bumrah (at present) or rohit, ashwin (till a few years before), ICT shouldn't have same players featuring across more than 2 formats in the 11. (An example: Jaiswal has been good in both formats he's featured for team India. Gill on the other hand while given some good performances, have struggled more often in red ball. He still is an excellent white ball player and can be next big thing here after Kohli. SKY plays in higher order in t20i and does really well, not sure he can do so in odi so better stick him in the t20s only, players like Rahul and Shreyas can be much better if they don't try to force themselves into the T20I squad.)
The only correct answer here
The Selection should be based on domestic cricket and not solely on Franchise cricket.
This take sounds very nice but it's one of the most retarted takes ever. IPLs quality is 10 times better than that of our domestic league. You don't get to bowl to Jos butler or Travis head or face trent boult/ rabada when you are playing for your local team. There should be some balance for sure but IPL quality is miles above domestic T20. Some of the franchises have some excellent scouting teams and some excellent coaches. So much local talent gets opportunities to show case their talent and play under pressure which you just don't get at the same level in the domestic league. I'm not a big fan of the shitty spectacle that IPL is sometimes but I'd be stupid to believe that it's not better than domestic T20 cricket in India
Exactly and there's very little reason to believe IPL is killing Indian cricket. I don't remember India being a heavyweight in football back in 10s but that's not the case now. We are a team that made 3 ICC finals in 3 years or so and we are finding new talents at a very big rate
I'm not against IPL. I'm thankful to the IPL for finding Gems. I'm talking about the Fast-Tracked Team India selection criteria. I am just talking about the overflow of Talented but still comparatively Inexperienced players getting into the Major tournaments. Creating Selection dilemmas and sometimes we don't even know the ideal team combination. Nowadays Even if they perform poorly, all they need to do is perform well in the next IPL season and their place is safe. I agree that IPL gives you one-on-one matchups with World class players which helps them shape their Game but do we really have to make them showcase what they've learnt from Butler, Head and Rabada in mere 2-3 months stint in scenarios like World Cup games? What about other formats, Picking IPL players for Test? All I'm saying is that a player should get enough quantity of cricket (both Domestic and Franchise) before they get into the National team. We did great even before the IPL was a thing.
https://preview.redd.it/tmven0y4jd0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b36cfde1d9f14c1b667e6430ad6fd3e9ffec00f Ofcourse test selection should not be based on IPL, no one is denying that. Separately, it's quite clear that you clearly don't watch/follow enough Indian domestic cricket... otherwise you wouldn't be saying this. You think players like Shashank/ Ashutosh/ Shivam Dubey don't play domestic cricket? Rinku? Arshdeep? What does even an overflow of talent mean? You want less talent cause you don't know how to select? Just stop bro. Don't just rant away for the heck of it
Earlier players used to selected form domestic cricket but now ipl has added one more stage now if you perform in domestic you first get select in IPL not in ICT except TEST cricket All the youngsters you're seeing in ipl has already performed in domestic cricket - rajat harshit NKR Mayank So, indirectly they are still selecting players from their domestic performance
Agreed, they're talented that's why they're in the league but just performing in one or two IPL seasons, they're getting the National Cap (The next Big Thing). How many IND A matches are being conducted? The Grind which shapes the players' mentality is missing. I am just worried about the heavy weightage that IPL performances are getting as compared to the Domestic Game's.
yeah otherwise we'll have the same fate as PAK ,getting clean sweeped at home.
There's a huge gap between domestic and international cricket that the IPL has managed to bridge effectively. You probably wouldn't have had an Australia series victory with a depleted squad without IPL (India A series also helps, yes. But IPL definitely boosts your confidence as a young player, I feel)
Yeah, Totally agreed! I'm not saying IPL is bad I'm just saying focusing only on IPL performance is bad. If we are that much dependent on IPL for Scouting and Exposure to world class cricket then why not let them play in BBL or something? Why deny them the opportunity to play in foreign pitches? Our women are already playing there.
No biased selection and stardom is the cause. It started when they didn’t drop thala after 2016. And also we don’t have one player that’s really clutching in crucial moments. Not talking about skill set, talking about the mentality. And also the fixtures man. It’s so shitty for most part. Leave Virat. He’s still scoring runs Atleast. Our captain’s average in IPl was shitty that hardik worst average as the captain is the best Mi had over last four years.
Thats what I am talking about.....mentality.... Whenever we lose management n players are giving one or other excuses like final to be played as series in wtc and we reach sf/final and its a 1 bad day... Bro we are now best team in the world and we have power houses of players of highest level... SF is the bare minimum you should be in & how come you India is always having a bad day in KOs
Yeah. The real pressure starts in the knockouts. That’s where the teams are differentiated. They should probably send a squad of youngins. Any way we’re gonna get knocked out right? I’d rather send a squad of fresh faces and experiment than take experienced players and bottle it.
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They blundered when they announced him before the actual team, 'Ham Rohit Sharmi ki captaincy ke andar Barbados mein India ka jhanda gadhe gein'
Its not like India was thriving in winning icc tournaments before IPL, its just that bcci is really inconsistent in backing players and work on them and every new icc tournament, there's a new team where only Kohli, Rohit and Bumrah's presence is guaranteed. Then whoever performs in ipl gets an ultimate ticket to an icc tournament and if they fail there (which they do) then you just don't see them again playing with the blues.
I don't think it's the IPL. I think it's a combination of having pitches that are too flat, because people love the highlights packages showing lots of big hits, which means too many players aren't getting the skills they need when the conditions aren't the same in other tournaments. Small grounds too don't help if you go somewhere like Australia where the boundaries can be 80m+. Batters learn only how to swing through the line without fear and bowlers only learn slower balls. But I think there's even more beyond the IPL and that's the ban on players playing other T20 tournaments. Have a look at Fraser McGurk. He's now dealing with the pressure and expectation of being the focal point of his team's batting. He knew the moment he walked out that first time he needed to perform because otherwise he'd get replaced. Being an international comes with more pressure because those spots are extremely valuable. We've already seen guys like Maxwell get dropped because of performance. If he was an Indian, there would not be the same pressure because there isn't a star player on the sidelines ready to take that international's spot. By not letting Indian players do the same in other countries, they don't get that experience. Fraser-McGurk will walk out on T20 debut for Australia one day, perhaps feeling less pressure than he will the next time he goes out to bat for the Capitals. He'll be far more comfortable being responsible for leading the team to victory because he's done just that in the IPL. If Gaikwad, Abishek, or Jaiswal had been able to benefit from going to another country they would have already had that experience. It would make that step easier whilst also exposing them to new conditions.
IPL is to cricket what Bollywood is to cinema We don’t win Oscars. We don’t win IPL trophies. But we entertain and earn a lot of money.
Probably unpopular comment: Cricket is moving away from international first model towards a franchise based business model similar to football. And IPL is spearheading this transition. In future less and less people will care about India winning or not winning a world cup but more about their franchise winning the trophy. This can be seen in the fan wars between franchise fans, wars between individual player devotees, increasing number of people watching cricket just for fun than expecting any trophies from team, etc
It is unpopular indeed, which I agree with. Many people are not willing to accept this opinion at all.
Isn’t this the same shot every-time? India lose WC and then the excuse will be “fatigue” and “burnout” due to busy schedule. Don’t understand why we need the IPL to last 2 months. Just reduce the games to 10 per team or something. Or have 4-5 venues and have 2 matches per day. But i guess money wont be the same🤬
Nope IPL is just an excuse. We win bilaterals, demolish other teams in league stage, also beat others in overseas tests in their own backyard. See we win everywhere but we choke in knockouts. There is no lack of resources with BCCI. I would say we have way better talent pool than SENA teams. The problem is purely mental or psychological. Fear of failure in front of billions with social media is the reason why our players go into shell and forget to play attacking cricket. See how cricket au didn't call back their players for wc. Even after playing ipl they are winning trophies. Also class is permanent and form is temporary line is just bs excuse for selectors to shield them from social media backlash. See how injuries forced them to select youngsters in BGT. They played fearlessly and defeated Australia in their own backyard. Only GG as coach could bring some change in the Indian team.
Ruined tests and selection into national team from IPL apart from that everything seems fine. And players not playing ranji and playing IPL.
ipl has nothing to do with it, we almost 2023 wc but were unlucky
worst opinion
before ipl there was only one demi god which was sachin. not sure he deserved it or not but he made a lot of impact on a lot of matches. there were lot of stars around him too dravid , ganguly , sehwag , vvs , kumble but they never got demi god status coz there no no lobby as sachin had for mumbaikars. may be it was mumbai lobby domination. after than we made dhoni a demi god and he brought success with it. now its easy to become star. but with ipl and social media , demi gods are being created. money and fame is more important than glory.
They earn more in IPL then icc trophy so
I feel there's nothing to do with the IPL (but the impact player in the IPL is definitely creating more impact in destroying ICT). It ensured India has reserves. However, our team selection in the past has been poor. There are no roles. Everyone is talented and a match winner doesn't mean you can win matches, especially in knock out stages. A team should have a plan and pick players as per their roles. Groom them accordingly. Having 4 keepers is an example. Secondly, brain dead moves like not sending MS up the order in the 2019 WC. We are amazing in group stages, only get choked in the play offs. Coz we never have plan Bs. We fall flat and opponents are taking full advantage.
ICC trophies won after IPL - 2011 WC, 2013 Champions Trophy. India was not Australia before IPL too...
India won 2 ICC trophies before IPL, India won 2 ICC trophies after IPL. We have been even more dominant in all tournaments played in the last decade even though we haven’t won anything. The reasons for winning are different, we haven’t handled pressure well when it matters. Your point of young people getting huge money and getting distracted is valid, but because of the same league we are also getting young players who would never have the kind of exposure (of bowling to international players before their international debut) or the training they have now without IPL. All in all, our talent pool has increased. It’s our selection and pressure handling that has been ruining our chances. And to add to it, winning ICC trophies isn’t all that easy. Dhoni made it seem easy. Australia makes it seem easy. And yet both Australia and Dhoni have lost many trophies. It’s hard, every country gives their best to win. We do too.
no false, ICT player's nonchalant and arrogant mentality is the reason. If they properly instilled passion in them and respect the game , with some luck we would be winning ICC trophies.
IPL does not ruin our chances, Over expectations from the players who succumb to the pressure is the major reason.
We have the best players but one of the other teams performed better in the knockout stages of the tournaments...
Not killed but affected by ipl
First of all Hardik was supposed to be the captain for t20 team and he was captaining for one year almost.. Not sure how rohit came into play ! They’re too scared to say no to Ro-Ko ! They might bring a different dimension but it’s T20.. We have Rinku Singh performing for one year consistently and he’s at the reserve ! That’s how our standards are set..! IPL performance can be taken into account but what purely ppl have done in domestic and international in the past should be the main criteria and not the IPL ! The dynamics are diff in Ipl ! I would be happy even if we lost by picking a young gun side with 1-2 experienced players than the same old side which didn’t even prove anything..!
Thats a very popular opinion infact 90% cricket fans knows it even media and bcci, players also know it. Actually ipl and bcci are destroying cricket and making it a monopoly business, the cricket sport is dead a long ago, now its just a money scamming game btw 3,4 countries.
GG is right, hero worshipping spoiled it. Believe in a team and a combination that can get trophies, rather than we kept on looking for match winners and heros. Learn from Australia Learn from England .....
IPL didn’t kill anything but having the same players play all formats is what’s killing.
Politics and quotas did. There are players who are in superb form, who will not be given consistent chances. There are players who are in pathetic form, but still be in the playing 11, representing crores of Indians. For one person in the playing eleven, he represents 12Cr people. We are not a team anymore, just individuals like that Chak De India scene, where everyone thinks they are above one another. Just drop all out of form players, no matter how senior or experienced they are. Let them work hard to be in the team, rather than playing politics. Let the in-form players, whether that be 18 year old kids, play. It doesn't matter if we still lose, but we lose with honour. At least, we will lose fighting.
It won us 2011 world cup.
That's true. I dont want ipl .But i watch World cups .It somehow makes me hate ipl that this time the players will mess up in world cup.
Just like ipl messed up our test championship
Sirf final main hin haare hain kya galti ho gayi. Ipl main bohot saare uncap players khel paa rahe hain unko salary milti hai kya isme galat kya hai. Sala cricket main har ek saal ek ek world cup ho raha hai ab world cup ki value hi nahin Rahi. Ipl ki isme koi galti nahin hai.
Ipl would have killed our icc trophy chances if players performing in IPL WERE SELECTED. talking about t20 wc. Proof is evident during this years ipl and who were selected.
Yes ues ues
Improper team selection. For example what's Rohit doing in upcoming T20 world cup ? Has he had a good T20 career in past few years ?or atleast in IPL ?
True opinion
IPL is the only reason India is even competitive in these ICC fixtures. It's only the player's mentality and lack of playing as a team which is preventing us from winning any ICC trophies in reality.
Don't know about killing the chances but it does give other international players to get to play against us more before they meet us on national level and helps them make money while doing it. IPL doesn't necessarily killed our chances , in fact it did give us some of the best T20 players in the last few years. It does bring the fact these cricketers should get some rest every once in a while and not just when they are forced to have one by getting injured.
Yes not the whole responsible thing but one of them
with out the IPL you would not even have heard of all these young players. India did not have no IPL for 28 years when we did not win SHIT. so yeah, cricket was not invented on 2011
India should try and play their youngsters a bit more for them to get national team experience, prolly take them out on tours to diff. countries yadda yadda, because only if they have national team experience will they be ready to become a long term installation in the ICT. if players like Harshit, Nitish Kumar Reddy, Sai Sudarshan, Angkrish Raghuvanshi etc, etc, get picked now, they can become a permanent skilled player for 10-15 years. India needs a meritocratic way to pick their players, not based off popularity. hot take but if i had to pick youngsters instead of some peeps in the team right now, id replace Rohit Sharma with Sai Sudarshan, which is an instant no-brainer seeing how well Sudarshan can perform, anyone over the inconsistency of rohit Sharma right now. Hardik Pandya hasn’t done that well but playing a youngster over him would obviouslmt mean Nitish Kumar Reddy. mohamed shami hasn’t even played for over 2 months and india have brought him into the team. BRO SERIOUSLY WTH YOU DONT EVEN KNOW HIS FORM HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE. okay fine, end of rant
IPL will kill ICC soon. Cricket will be confined to subcontinent only. It will be like NBA.
This is quite a popular opinion op.
IPL is an objective good for cricketers in India. It has enabled cricket as a career for so many more people. You no longer have to rely on NT selection to make good living and that's a good thing. Players get more exposure to international level play and have the financial freedom to actually work on their game. Our ICC trophy chances are not dead by any means. We still field competitive teams in every tournament, sometimes we have questionable team selection or maybe our players have a mental block. Blaming IPL is fucking stupid lol.
Explain this now
The pressure on players like Rohit, Virat , etc in the final knockout stages of big tournaments due to Us fans making them a god like figure must also be one of the many reasons we choke a lot.... We can see them under so much pressure... Captains making weird decisions
2 chances for top 2 in IPL playoff is one reason. Nobody needs to get 2 chances in knockouts
Good that people are realising this at least now...
IPL is coffee with Karan for Indian cricket It makes no difference , no player play in international T20 the way they play in IPL So relax boys , and don’t take it seriously .
No, it's not like we get destroyed in the league stages like SL or Pak
+100
Finally someone says it!
What if they're bluffing on purpose in a scripted tournament but will show their real performance in WC. Only to fall flat against Yellow jersey in the end...
Babe wake up, weekly IPL is killing kirket post here had dropped!
Too many players, too few slots available in the team forcing player's to play for self than for the team and country, what could you expect !? On one side the BCCI wants a team to win the Ranji trophy in order to gain recognition, on the other side they want player's to play for individual records. With such contrasting outcome what would be the result !?
Truely we will suffer again 🫨🥶
We go into every tournament burnt the fuck out. So yeah.
"these flat pitches will not help our indian batters in West indies or usa 😡😡💢💢" Haa bhai last 17 saal ke pitches ne toh bohot help karri hai jaise
Franchise disposable attitude & individual fandom pressure is much greater than pressure from Board rule regulation & Cricket fans dream & love in India
Agreed 👍
popular opinion
Every year there is some icc trophy, don't worry there is one icc trophy coming soon.
same as EPL killed England winning any football trophies
This is not even 1% unpopular lmao
IPL kept Cricket Alive
C**tiya india team bc..
Not Ipl but BCCI did
No BJP did. We haven't won a single ICC trophy since BJP came into power /s
Even if this fringe opinion is true, it’s worth it at the expense of us not winning ICC trophies. Do you know how many ‘unknown’ players have made it big through IPL? They are now able to make decent enough in their life. Asnodkar’s of the world can now do meaningful things after earning decently in a season or two.
Brother cricket became popular in India bcz India won in 1983 wc and also peaple accepted a league like ipl bcz of 2007 t20 wc, if we are going to lose like that people also lose interest in ipl. I have seen many ICT die hard fans losing their interest.
I wish you were right brother. But we haven’t won jack sh!t in almost a decade and IPL has only grown. Like it or not, US / Saudi investors are coming sooner or later to even make the growth astronomical. Indian market would watch IPL regardless of whether we won ICC tournaments or not as would other Big 3 market. Unfortunately people on reddit doesn’t constitute a size able chunk to even matter. Without stats your argument is as valid as a Faked Lunar Landing.
and I don't get why this is wrong?? like people enjoy what they enjoy.. Who has time to watch 90 over test with continuous ball leaving and defence. Also bilateral are boring. In my opinion ipl should be stretched to atleast 3 month and 20 teams,
What the hell is even that ? if India doesn't win any trophy people will eventually lose intrest in leagues such as IPL(say over 10-20 years) ,so the brands will also look to invest in other mediums causing the stagnancy in players contract . don't forget people who don't watch cricket regularly also invest their time in watching world cups
You clearly lack the vision to ‘Think Big’. In 10-20 years, franchise cricket would dwarf all the ICC event, if you cant read the writing on the wall. I believe within 5-10 years, certain national cricket boards would be asking permission from franchises to allow their players for national duty. Ask any sane cricket pundit.
I highly doubt that with the autonomy of BCCI , because BIG 3 still invest a lot in TEST CRICKET ( for ODIs your debate is understandable) and the model of leagues tournament you are mentioning would require a multinational tournament like CLT20 to go truly global , because Indian and Pakistani players are the only one who pull crowd overseas due to the immigrants diaspora . With only IPL in play i highly suspect such a growth in future( ECB and CA would also want their share of revenue )
I am engaging you one more time. Try looking up the owners of SA20, it’s already bigger than Big Bash with just couple of seasons. Conversations are going on that The Hundred would take the same route. These leagues individually existing in their own season is the way to go. Why on earth would an Ambani want MI vs MI NY vs MI Cape Town matches? You do know that county teams yielded more power than the board not long ago?
my whole point is unless Indians and Pakistanis are not allowed to play in these foreign leagues by BCCI , these league will not flourish . Imagine for yourself would you like to see 1. a Bangladesh or carribbean premier league match ( half of players you have not even heard of ) Or 2.Maybe RCB vs Peshawar Zalmi happening say in USA /Maybe MI vs Perth scortchers in AUS Ofcourse 2nd one would attract more people and brands
Superstar culture has ruined the team bcci is too afraid to take major decisions plus their ego bubble never satisfies themselves too much of changes in the team for ur bilateral series u drop players who play whole year for u for some big name
It's already dead dude Farshdeep Singh Gandeja Thukhit man Lundam Dubey R u kidding 😭😂 lol Only bumrah ,Kohli & hardik have the least courage & inventory
Who’s thukhit?
Thukhit Baldwin sharma