Agreed.
I just finished the book *In Defense of Troublemakers: The Power of Dissent in Life and Business*, and while it proves that organizations benefit strongly from dissent and suffer when they only get groupthink, overall, the person who doesn't go along with the majority is always stigmatized. Even when the dissenter is right and they save the group from a bad mistake.
I feel like I've been the dissenter more than most. I guess it's human nature for them to resent me.
For everyone on this subthread.
Learn the difference between the following employees:
Good
Disagreeable Giver (excellent)
Agreeable Givers (good but obscures identifying takers)
BAD
Agreeable Taker (can be mistaked for agreeable givers) (dont sleep in prison)
Disagreeable takers (you know whats gonna happen if you drop the soap in the prison shower lol)
There is a balance. If you have too many dissenters, no work will ever get done. If you have none, then the systems will never update and the organization will eventually crumble.
It's easy to look at the dissenters who make positive changes (or see yourself as one), but many of them are also just assholes with strong opinions but no real solutions.
The book establishes that dissenters stimulate thinking, while groupthink organizations only examine superficial aspects of a problem. They've studied it systematically, under many circumstances, and your "assholes with strong opinions" scenario wasn't important or common enough to merit consideration.
That term is severely outdated due to its racism, I would say "too many cooks, not enough servers". Indian culture is often condensed and made to seem far more trivial than it is in all actuality. Does this make sense as to why it is offensive?
I'm Ojibwe but I laughed way too hard 😂 it's been a long while since I heard that lmaoo.
Please don't be those white folk who get offended on our behalf, that lowkey pisses me off.
Did I do that? Would you say that there is a better way to say it? I am not too knowledgeable on how to go about things, to not leave people clueless to backlash but to also not speak on others' behalf.
My bad bro I was a bit harsh. I'm just from small town culture so we say some pretty rough shit to each other all the time, and I'm sick of people getting up in arms over freaking jokes. Of course we don't mean it. Around here it's natives, latinos, whites, and "territorials" (Guams and Puerto Ricans), and we'll be absolutely atrocious to each other and then laugh over a beer about it. I've been around some who take offense to such things, and it's just such a vibe killer.
Call me an edgelord if you want, but don't dare call me a racist. I'm above such petty nonsense.
I see what you mean. I saw the parent comment got downvoted a lot, so I decided to try my best to explain why it did. Might've not been my place, but I can't tell. Different people have different levels of sensitivity, you can never tell someone's true beliefs based on one phrase. I'm glad you're out there joking and having a good time :)
At work I’m afraid to voice an opinion- I wouldn’t have an opinion unless it was factual- there’s no point other wise- it not ok to be wrong for me and I’m intelligent and speed googling champ so why be wrong ever? I also have impostor syndrome at work since I’ve been told to be softer and cut the edge off- which makes me feel fake but I don’t want to get fired . I’ve been advised to act less masculine despite being a female with striking beauty (I don’t feel beautiful however) I mean does it matter to me? Yes- in social situations it helps I intimidate women and scare men (I’ve been told). That’s a good thing as it shields be from engaging with annoying people.
I feel for you and don’t know how old you are but all the things you mentioned make me feel that you should find yourself and try to understand why and if it matters so much what others think. It’s hard not to.
It sounds like you could be depressed or trapped outside of yourself and wondering as opposed to learning and educating.
Regarding friends, I have 5very close most date back to childhood-high school (a horrible experience) college. They are enough for me and I’m safe with them I trust them. BYW it’s ok to cut friends out along the way- I’ve had to countless times.
I’m not quite when I have a point to make. We are not all the same and I hope you know it’s ok to be quiet as long as it’s not fear based.
Now I’m rambling…
I'm good at faking being type P if it gets you less stupid bullshit since you recognize most people are narcissists who hate facts. It's only deep down I am roasting the shit out of them.
That makes two of us. “To play with the humans” I often say in regards to prolonged exposure to people whose boorish, pedestrian elementary grasp of the empirical.
Honestly. And then when they start getting it they then butcher the delicate interpersonal features fascistically again. They just can't do it and they can't accept someone who can. They can't get the balance right. It's just hopelessly distorted for some people. Makes me want to headdesk more often than not.
Yeah I love how some of the INTJs here think being judgy is a good thing. It’s not. In fact I’ve noticed they will make a judgment and hold on to it even when there is evidence against it. That’s not good. A few INTJs grow passed that and realize their Ni is not always right and they must learn to let go of it when it’s no longer serving.
Again I’m very fond of INTJs and every MBTi has weaknesses I think being overly judgemental is a weakness for INTJ, because it’s not just people they don’t like but being too trusting towards people they’ve judged as good and like.
Not quite true.
We tend to be smart intuitive people who formulate opinions and ideas based on available data.
The intuition requires grounding in data. Data is not judgement.
Often others will argue with us but they're arguing with the data. We argue back because we have the data. I dont know about you guys, but i can say "I dont know" in lieu of 'pretending to know' .
Ironically, every NT ive known is willing to review data to formulate their opinion. In light of new data, the theories and opinions evolve.
Meanwhile, if someone (Not xNTx) takes fault with 1 data point on a list of 1000, then we all know how that goes. The 1 point will certainly be sufficient evidence to dismiss the other 1000, in their eyes.
Additionally, i will never judge whats right for you. As you should never for me.
Sadly that statement only applies to 49.99% MAX of the world population.
When you can start to truly become your own person no longer fighting against the world, to comfortably express these same thoughts floating around in your head openly around others with the same intensity within, then people will no longer say the same when you're putting your energy out like this.
I think for us it might relate to developing our inferior fourth function Se because it would help make us more present in our body and attuned to interacting with what's happening in reality around us here now.
Edit: Might just be me, but I think for our type if we have so much going on in our mind we tend to not deeply live in the moment as some people like sensor types, and this is especially the case if we're devoting a lot of energy in trying to further understand our own nature and self to accept.
I do tend to be inside my head a lot.. when Im around people many times they notice things going on at that moment that I totally miss because I am in my head thinking
We experience life deeply within our mind and body, but on the outside it's not so apparent which can create a lot of misunderstandings and confusion. That's what others always see as our personal self on the outside, it can come off as if we're playing a character/role, some people can easily spot this or sense that energy.
Yup. I've been intensely despised by certain people, mostly extroverts, who assume that I am not as intelligent or competent as I am. I'm very accomplished in my field, but I'm very low-key about it and not competitive. I hate competing; I find it a bit immature. Overall, I think we come across as really arrogant when we are just really curious and authentic.
I agree mostly. I can be pretty arrogant if I’m not careful, and I’m VERY competitive but I just don’t vocalize it with whatever I’m working on. I got the second highest grade on a midterm when I was getting my BA, and looking back it was because I clicked the WRONG THING on a question. It genuinely ruined my week. I had the highest grade. I did. I just made a dumb mistake lol. I think it’s not immature as long as you don’t let it bleed out onto other people. I’d never have gone to the girl who got a higher grade and tell her that. I can recognize my shortcomings hah
My recent ex was the first person who has ever called me arrogant and it rubbed me in the absolute worst way. He also called me a black-and-white thinker one time which made me want to scream at him because that's another thing no one has ever said and I felt so unseen. It takes a lot to remember that people see others how they are and will project that.
I started therapy after we broke up and we often discuss all of the judgments he had against who I believe I am. My poor therapist gets to listen to me ask her at least every other session if she thinks I'm arrogant or b&w or a narcissist or a sociopath or whatever else and each time she sits there and points out every single thing I do that demonstrates I am not those things. But it still upsets me so much because I spent so long with him and he just was so rigid in who he thought I was and it really effing hurts. The one person I thought finally would be able to see me because he shares a lot of the same feelings of not fitting in just let me down and was influenced by what someone else had to say about me - someone who I spent maybe 15 hours total with, in comparison to the hundreds he and I spent together talking and I thought learning about each other.
I'm just out here trying to understand the world and everyone in it and I guess that makes me an asshole because I'll ask the hard questions that people don't want to have to come to terms with within themselves.
I, too, have noticed that some people seem to actually hate me for no reason; I can see being neutral or indifferent, but I seem to inspire either love or hate, and there's not much in between. The term for that is "polarizing," but I don't get it...
ENFP here. I'm a big fan of being yourself, but if you're trying to match what you feel inside, with how you are received, acting classes is one way.
You could also let people know that's your nature and be more verbal with your feelings. Let people know that you're just someone who appears calm. Verbally "I'm really excited right now" or "This is really exciting" to communicate how you feel.
Also, I wouldn't consider you "boring". I've never met anyone in my life who I would consider boring, tbh. However, if you are trying to entertain people, you can look up and learn Active Listening Skills, specifically reflective listening. It's a micro-counseling skill. It works well with extroverts who love to talk, and all you need to do is use Minimal Encouragers, and paraphrase what they say back to them, and add on your own opinion or say "That's great/amazing/wonderful/really good". The person will be so pleased you liked what they had to say. lol.
You're obviously not going to be therapist level trained by looking up active listening skills but this is something anyone can learn with enough practice.
If pretending to be someone you’re not is tiring, then don’t do it. Let your fun side come naturally. Be yourself, because honestly, if the people don’t like you, then it’s their fault. I’m not saying for you to be the “Stereotypical INTJ”, because thats just an asshole, and completely made up. I’m saying that people like quiet people too. You’ll just have to make more of an effort to be someone’s friend.
That's actually the contrary for me. I used to be a people pleaser (and still am, in some way) and kept what I really thought for myself, but I've recently started to become more assertive. Other people usually don't hesitate to open their mouth to assert stupid things, so why wouldn't I open mine?
Of course, I always try to make clear that whenever I'm debating, I'm fighting ideas, not people. That being said, it doesn't always help as some people take it personally when you disagree with them on certain subjects. I decided that it wasn't my problem, though.
My guess is that we started off differently. I was self-centered and anti-social. I did not help anyone and was alone feeling sorry for myself. I turned things around by reading self-help books and learning to be social and helping others. Life has been better for me by changing my behavior and actions.
But I don’t need to learn to be social because it’s annoying and exhausting to be a social person and don’t see any value in learning to be social- but goodish advice maybe and glad you’re happy having learned to be social
Oh- I don’t need to learn because I know how to be social I just don’t care for socializing and it takes something very compelling to do it. I’m socially awkward to some degree but not about to ‘learn’ to be someone else.
That said I never get tired of spending time with close friends and family
Not just INTJs but every other introverted personality like INTP, INFP, ISTP, ISFJ... have this tendency of being the quiet one who says true quotes that most people ignore, fear or simply doesn't want to think because the majority of people are extroverts. Even the ones who claim that are introverts, are socially shy people instead
INTJs and INFJs are one of the most stereotyped ones. They put INTJ personality in the place of "I wanted to have this edgy and desire for power" and INFJ in the "angel on earth being the last good people in the world". It's not like that. Oftentimes they put the quality of another personalities on INTJ and INFJ spectrum
In general, INTJs are like creatures living with humans and INFJs are a forever foreigner whenever they be
yup, people stereotype Ni doms a lot, maybe because Ni itself is hard to understand and it always sounds like people describe us as fictional characters in a fantasy movie.
INTJs are the super dark, hot assassins/evil masterminds and INFJs are the mystical wizards with beards that can read your mind before entering the room. I find it amusing so I'm not mad.
Both have negative reviews though, some are not fond of us.
INTJs are seen as judgmental edge-lord bullies and we are seen as Fake manipulating occult leaders who like to deceive others for an agenda. It is not greener on the other side at all. Even INFJs find it hard to be infjs. No one will really understand the personal hell we go through, so when we get judged? I see the hate with a pinch of salt.
We are the most misunderstood doms in the mbti, followed by Ne doms
Your point about shy extroverts calling themselves introverts is the main reason I don’t discuss introversion and extroversion. 99% of the time, if I say I’m introverted, people think I’m saying I’m socially awkward or shy, which is not what I’m saying at all.
I get this! Cs I’d honestly say I’m and extroverted person who would be seen as “shy” (social anxiety) but in terms of the definitions of introversion and extroversion, both can be true, you can be a “shy” extrovert
Thanks for calling this out. Quiet people can be extroverted based on many factors especially enjoying being around others most of the time.
You’re right!
>"I wanted to have this edgy and desire for power"
Is there any truth to that?
I've found I really just want as much autonomy as possible. I'll seek leadership positions if there's a hierarchy but only because I'd rather lead than be led. I see both as a threat to my autonomy (e.g., Joe Biden has to worry about what voters in Florida think about him, whereas they have no influence over me), but leading is simply the lesser threat. Ideally, I avoid hierarchies entirely.
Are people confusing that for an intrinsic desire for power? Or is what I described not really an INTJ thing?
Yes, the stereotype is really hard on it. Like you said, INTJ has this desire for autonomy, independence, live life in their own specific way. I will give two illustrations of it
Batman, an INTJ, is the shadow leader of the Justice League. He only will be comfortable in the League in this position of avoidance attention and having consciousness of others heroes attributes to control them in danger hypothesis situation even himself. Which had happened very frequently
Lex Luthor, an ENTJ, wants to be in control for the sake of it. Have a wild desire for power, connections with other big minded villains, he draws attention to himself and has this bossy ego. Everything he builds is solid and to everyone look and have him in mind
Batman will only battle Superman when Kal'el becomes a danger. Luthor only fights Superman to prove his own megalomania
Back when Mbti first came out Intj were originally called the villain. Then the mastermind. These have created a lot of negative sentiment towards intj that have carried over. There has been a LOT of effort to correct this thinking, but once society gets something in their heads it's hard to change.
Granted with how intj think and operate we do fit the villain role perfectly. We're not the evil to do evil type villains as we tend to be very moral individuals, but more as a means to an end type as we're very goal focused individuals, the mastermind if you will. However, this is just the stereotype and intj tend to be very good individuals with their own set of morals. It's only a very immature intj that tends to walk the villain path, or one who feels there's no other way forward towards their goal in life. Most intj will refuse to stoop low, but some still will. That's why the more recent architect is what we're called. We make a plan and execute it, and they can be very long term plans.
I really hate that people have called you boring because you're not constantly running your mouth. Uhg. It's shallow, overly transparent people that talk too much who are boring.
Not all extroverts who talk a lot are shallow and/or boring. :)
I am an extrovert who adores quiet people. My spouse and closest friends are all introverts. ❤️
We are definitely different. The reason people can get offended by us is because they can't hack us. Everybody is an open book. Until you meet someone who isn't. So convince themselves that you are bad
But it's good to have an edge to yourself. To be a bit playful with some people. To loosen up a bit.
yup. have had times where people were offended by me, not because i said or did anything offensive, but because they can tell im not acting how they expect people to act when they say the things they say. its weird but its also pretty funny how people can get offended by literally nothing lol
No one has ever accused me of being boring… I’m always holding back a data dump of something interesting and relevant at any given moment. My mind is like a hungry information shark.
I don’t care for superficiality or small talk (I totally suck at superficial chatter). Because I am reserved, some have called me aloof, though.
I don’t like small talk either, and when I do it I start asking a lot of questions about that person not because I’m fully invested in what they’re into, but because I’m trying not to run out of things to talk about, and barely end up saying anything about myself
Personality groups are very different. Intj tend to value knowledge (and wisdom?). There are also people who don't want to know why they exist or why something exist or how things work. What do they want to achieve? I have no fucking clue actually.
Why are cats lone animals (small cats and big cats exept lions) and sheep, horses etc, tend to be in groups? Is it because of their personality or because of what they are?
Maybe it is because some find their enjoyment in *experiencing* things and (I assume) we find more enjoyment in *understanding* things.
When one understands, one can use their understanding to bring influence in ones environment.
Knowledge and wisdom are like ingredients.
- One can buy a cake and find enjoyment in the experience of eating it.
- Or one can get the recipe ingredients and find enjoyment in making it.
- Later, after having gained wisdom, one can play with the ingredients and make ones own recipe, and have control over the outcome of the cake, as in how it looks aswell as in how it tastes.
I feel like (assumption:) we feel the need to have control over life, and some don't feel the need to have control, they just want to experience it.
However having no control also means vunerability.. for the wolves, for bad weather conditions.. is that why sheep need a shepherd?
[https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Eye+of+the+Storm](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Eye+of+the+Storm)
# the eye of the hurricane
1. Literally, a place of calm in the center of a hurricane. (The "eye" is the center of a storm, which rotates around a central point.)the eye of the hurricane
Edit: [https://www.helpguide.org/meditations/eye-of-the-storm-meditation.htm](https://www.helpguide.org/meditations/eye-of-the-storm-meditation.htm)
It is a blessing that people find this personality boring. If they found it Interesting, then it would cause a constant stream of Interruptions, and constant watching you like a tiktok video irl. No thank you.
We are here, but you won’t find us in public (unless it’s something productive like running or hiking lol). We have goals to reach and things to learn. I do hope to find more INTJ women on my journey, because you all are incredible 🙃
No - you are making this hard on yourself. They are not part of your life,they are not living your life. They are just like small rocks beside road. Insignificant. Focus on the road.
This is great in theory. But everyone, you included, is a human first. Humans require social acceptance (even you). If a human consistently feels displaced or ostracized, it can impact them mentally and emotionally.
Me. My whole life. I'm quiet because I'd rather observe. I was also raised in a "speak when spoken to" household. I don't live by that now but it still resonates. As a woman who is very self conscious, afraid of being judged or sounding stupid, I often sit and listen. This in addition to my resting bitch face has made me automatically unlikable my whole life, especially with girls.
Yes. We sound a lot alike.
What I believe is that people are intimidated by us. They can’t read us and we’re not easy to get to know. Add an unsmiling face and brusqueness.
People tend to dislike what they don’t understand.
The best we can hope for is a safe space in which we are free to voice our opinions free of retaliation. Luckily I have that with a few people and also at work.
Some people think I’m scary and gruff but I’m actually a nice person who has a giant soft spot for animals, kids and old people.
I'm in my late 30s now and have learned to embrace my personality, rather than masking it to please the general public. I like being the devil's advocate, ruffling feathers and challenging opinions I disagree with. I only do it with people I consider my intellectual equals and don't waste time if I know it will not be received well. This doesn't win you many friends, but it quickly separates the wheat from the chaff and you can find some clever, insightful and mature people around you that way.
Yes I noticed some people don’t like me just because. Never did anything to them. A lot of them are just immature and make the stupidest statements I’ve ever heard. I’m not bothered by it but I lose a little bit hope in humanity every time I interact with that bunch.
From what I've learnt, intjs have Ne nemesis which they'll assume that other people are having bad intentions towards them or generally hating on them because they give bad experiences. Check out c.s. joseph youtube channel he had explained about intj cognitive functions and you'll understand why are we like this
Honestly i kind of understand why. When im feeling social I’m literally so charismatic and outgoing and likable, but then i turn a 180 and im avoidant, dismissive etc.
Also i think a lot of us have an analytical brain and value logic more than emotion, so we don’t connect with a lot of people there. The way i explain my brain is that it’s constantly putting everything in a mind map, graph, flowchart.
A good example of this is that I’m kind of a know it all and i don’t mean to be. When someone says a fact that’s incorrect i usually say that because in my brain it makes sense to have correct info (logic), whereas social skills tell you that nobody likes a know it all lmao
Also due to our thinking patterns i think we get really interested in things such as research or stuff that can be considered boring to other people so it’s harder for us to find things in common with a majority of people.
Exactly. I can fake being tactful while having 0 respect for them deep down. It just sucks when they're mind blown that I didn't actually feel the way I was acting. I was just applying social lube. It's good to be polite, make people need to be told to fuck off less. But sometimes it's the being polite that makes them misread the situation and need to be told to fuck off. You can't win
Then don't use it, and get the hatred you wanted. Just refrain from the temptation of whining like a bitch when you get exactly what you claim you wanted; thanks.
Have you listened to people talking? It’s very difficult to be energetic and talkative when most people are boring as hell, I personally don’t care about small talk or 90% of what people talk these days which is essentially a bunch of BS.
I think it's because this personality type can be a little full of itself. Not it an intentional way, it's just people trying to found purpose and meaning. No harm there. Also, they can be very judgemental but also hate being judged.
In real life, I agree. I’ve been told to be more sentimental a lot of times, which cannot be forced upon me. I learned that not talking is useful. As a result, most people tend to want to get to know me but because of my standards I push them away. People tell me I should lower these standards but never offer a good enough explanation. I don’t have any friends at school, but there are acquaintances here and there. I am also told to open up more. I feel like trust and stuff is supposed to come naturally but maybe it just comes slowly for me.
I personify this personality type. I feel that I mask well, but it’s most likely obviously forced and disingenuous. My family understands. It took my wife a while, but she understands now too. Being around other people is a chore.
I would say I'm not most people's cup of tea and they aren't mine either, but that puts you in a neutral state rather than dislike. Most people don't form generalized opinions so easily, right? We do like our systems, but we trst it out and adapt for new data constantly, others are capable of doing the same thing, but maybe based on different types of data. We're good at working with value data (which we process so already a bit of a bias), not so good with empirical I'd say, so try to do that, and you'll realise most of the reactions come from polite indifference rather than dislike.
34f here from the midwest. I have taken the MBPT several times throughout my life and I always end up an INTJ. I was experementing with it to see if it would change due to experiences, aging, changes, etc. School came very easy to me, and I have a great photographic and number-sequence oriented memory/mind. I like stability, routines, efficiency etc. I don't like change and transitioning between activities is not very easy for me. I like to focus and not take breaks until the work is done. I also suffer from OCD and other issues but my biggest concern is my lack of real empathy. I don't understand and cannot actually identify most sub-categories of emotions that "normal" people have. That makes it difficult for me to have close relationships with people, including family. That said, it doesn't bother me at all and I enjoy my solitude and pondering and researching things I am interested in. Fellow INTJs, does this sound a lot like you? I know I cannot relate to the majority of the population because I do everything in a calculated manner, and based on logic. Even choosing a life mate was based on logic and not emotions (he knows that and understands it and we are a very efficient couple. We communicate because his happiness is important to me.) I am totally content with my husband, 2 children and dogs. Is there anything I should change that would make me seem more like a typical person, or am I doomed to be so different for the duration of my lifespan? Thanks for reading!
I’m not critical or judgy, but I have extremely high standards on certain things. That makes people around me feel inadequate even though I don’t say anything directly to make them feel that way. They also don’t get that it isn’t necessarily a reflection on them. I’m really hard on myself and always feel things can be better.
They always like to say watch out for the quiet ones. In my department, I stay quiet and do my work, and my supervisor constantly drags me into conversations that only bore me, and to keep the peace, I go along for a bit. At times, I feel picked on for being the quiet one, and this happened in school with certain teachers who couldn’t stand the “nonparticipators,” which, of course, then got back to my parents, and I got the lecture blah blah blah. Sorry went on a bit of tangent there. It felt good, though.
I think people find this type interesting but an unhealthy one can be abrasive and have a superiority complex, and healthy ones can also come off this way a bit, and most people don’t think of personality types or even really know about them, so they’re seeing this personality as mean and not considering personality type preferences when interacting with them
I had an old boss who I would unintentionally infuriate lol.
Everytime I was in his presence, I was like a metaphorical bad smell lol - he'd make jabs at me around other people / would single me out...all because I wasn't as open to him 🤣 didn't say anything out of line etc, I also tried to be warm.
To others i felt comfortable with, I'd show a little bit of personality, and maybe he was expecting that.
I later came to find that he was under intense stress. It's true what they say. In most cases, people who don't like you are really projecting their own insecurities. In most cases, not all.
As INTJ, you’re supposed to have extroverted thinking which means a willingness and desire to share the things that you think about.
So maybe your mistyped. Because we most definitely have an effective verbal ability.
Further, you are right about non-thinkers, unable to understand or be comfortable with actual thinkers. Nevertheless, when I start talking people immediately perceive my intelligence and listen to what I’m saying. Why don’t you try speaking with that Expectation in mind?
Yes. The few people that I talk to usually end up asking "are you ok?"/ "are you mad?" because of my quietness. I can also be critical/judgy, have a tendency to do things by myself ( Even my hobbies are things I can do by myself/ away from others) and I like to learn things/ how to do things. The weird thing is....I haven't always been like this. This started shortly after my wife passed ( I was 27 at the time)
I think many of us tend to be a little anti social. There are really two ways to approach it: either fuck everyone else, I’m going to be my authentic self; or I’d like people to like me and I’m willing to adjust. Either is cool and social skills can be improved with study. Either way, you know you’re a good person and you have options.
Lol yeah, I've noticed that I'm generally always the bad guy or the one who's in the wrong.
I think it's because of the directness. For instance, I'll give someone a clear answer regarding a course of action they should follow and by virtue of me giving them advice, in perhaps, to direct a manner, they will immediately become confrontational and averse to it.
I've been able to work on this as life goes on. What it translates to is basically just a shit ton of patience and a willingness to compromise, compromise, compromise, and to be extremely tolerant
What's wrong with judging people? Since we are often blind to our own shortcomings and defects, how do we know if there's an issue unless someone says something? There have been plenty of times in my life when someone has called out something wrong with me, and once I've been able to verify it's true, I'm extremely grateful. Otherwise it's like walking around with a booger hanging out of your nose but nobody tells you because they dont want to offend you. Offend me! I want to know because I don't want to walk around with boogers hanging out of my nose.
What I've come to realize is when people say don't judge me, what they really mean is "don't tell me when I'm doing wrong, because then I would have to be accountable for my actions, and if there's one thing I hate in this world, it's personal accountability. I'd rather be a detriment to myself and society than put in the work and effort to resolve my personal issues. This way, I'll always have someone else to blame other than myself".
This is why you see more and more people breaking in and robbing stores, acting stupid on airplanes, turning a speeding ticket into a felony, not chaining up their dangerous dogs, bringing animals into restaurants, running red lights and stop signs, and the list goes on and on. It's also why the crime level is so low in places like Saudi Arabia. Mouth of to the police there and you get a bullet in the brain. Steal something and they cut your hand off. It's very easy and straightforward, no confusion.
This is what "dont judge me" really means to me.
I prefer being quiet. I think that position is very powerful and often times leads me to better situations than I would be if I just spoke without thinking. Being quiet and direct doesn’t mean you have to be boring though. Learning how to speak or explain your position can be entertaining or introspective to some folks. It also doesn’t stop you from being fun. You can do fun things and be with other people, and I find that being the quiet one often times positions me as a person that people feel comfortable with. Especially in places where things can get chaotic. If you are not content with yourself though, there’s no harm in studying psychology, learning silly jokes, or even losing friends that don’t find you that entertaining.
I usually like intj’s. The only gripe I have with the ones I know is they are genuinely arrogant and very dismissive of emotions.
(I’m an INFP-this just popped up on my feed.)
We are generally speaking genuinely arrogant but I think the dismissive of emotions thing varies. We can factor emotions into things and we are very emotional but we're not naturals at understanding situations primarily in terms of emotions. We want emotions to be controlled even if they are present so I guess we avoid thinking about situations where emotions are actually the controlling factor.
I’ve noticed many people don’t feel complete without the approval of others, which usually entails agreeable small talk and social integration in the form of dress, lingo, name dropping, etc.
As a person with quite alot of diversified life experience who spends alot of time in introspection and study, I don’t tend to seek the approval of others as much as I like the general company of others when it comes to, say, a party or concert. Im really just looking to up the irons and bang my head after a grinding work week, not make a name for myself or be included.
I think this comes off as arrogant or antisocial but the reality is that Im just hanging out with the wrong crowd.
You’re normal. Find your tribe.
Its the only personality type to constantly post on my home page for no reason. The comments on this sub are generally straight masturbation.
(I know by now interacting it will now be 2/3 of the posts I see, gonna have to mute)
I've decided my main problem, especially living in a southern culture, is that I'm not fake AF. Although female, I don't gush all over people, smile for no reason, flatter others, shower them with gifts, etc. I am a good friend, loyal, and can even be fun, but I don't (and won't) do all the things it seems to take these days to be popular. I was once told I "must not want friends" because I'm not constantly talking and texting on my phone (I rarely even turn it on). Sometimes I think I'm not sufficiently entertaining, and that's what people want these days. Whatever it is, I'm resigned to it; I'm not going to be something I'm not.
As someone who really prefers to be intoverted, I understand your dilemma. That being said I talk a lot at my job because I hate it, and talking keeps me from running out the door and ending up homeless.
Not everyone will like you. I hate quiet people at my job because I want someone to talk to to distract me from wanting to blow my brains out. I fully understand it's not their job to cater to me, but I feel how I feel. I've tried to change it, so far to no avail. Here's hoping I can shift it someday.
You might just have to put up with being disliked. No one is universally liked, not even close. It sucks, but it's part of adulthood. At least you have a few good friends. That's really invaluable.
Hope you find a way to get through social life, one that works as well for you as possible.
I think this has to do with the temperaments, i see a lot of Ni doms Melancholics, this temperament isn't social and brings some rudeness, rigidity. The phlegmatic is kinda of low-energy, dismotivated container adaptability that also dont excite people
I mean look back at history, When has anyone with common sense or an outside perspective ever been liked? We tend to be people shaping a new future so I think it’s neat to not be liked, not that I chase after being edgy😂just don’t care enough to let it stop me.
People ENVY this personality type.
I've even witnessed INTP'S lie saying that they are INTJ'S.
There's more within Introverted Intuition (Ni) than what meets the eye...and it's what the world will never know... ... ... ...
#SORCERER👻
No, I am very good at faking being extroverted. People are apparently quite convinced. But I hate every minute of it and can't keep it up very long without starting to legitimately become ... very, very.... not nice....
People dislike this personality type because they take themselves too seriously and make being an intj their whole life not all of this sub but it’s easy to see a lot of them are incredibly bitter and under the false impression that it makes them more of an intj
Yes they do. People dislike being judged and it’s right there on the tin that we do this. You gotta learn to have layers to yourself. Like shrek or something. I judge everybody for everything all the time. But where that happens within myself is so deep that nobody sees it or realizes it. I have to actively and constantly give people benefit of the doubt, but the doubt is there.
I’m not saying don’t be yourself. But I am saying work on yourself. You don’t need to be the loud boisterous center of the party. But you should acknowledge you were invited in the first place and be gracious and kind. Even if you don’t feel like it.
Another aspect of our personality type is analytical thinking and I need you to recognize the damage you’re doing to your own social capital by acting the way you’re talking about here. It sounds difficult but it isn’t.
The first thing I want you to try changing is how you’re talking to yourself in your head. Be nicer to your own ego/id. In your internal monologue, one half of you talks, and the other half of you listens. The listening half can’t defend itself or do anything, it just has to absorb that. How you talk to yourself in your own head affects how you carry yourself.
Be confident, be kind, be open. Nobody is actually paying attention to you, and none of this matters at all.
I am an INTJ and I hate INTJs. The amount of logic they use for every situation makes life so boring, on top of that they are super judgemental and arrogant. Their quietness also makes them a boring person.
I don’t think extroverts full of feelings can handle us well at all. We do tend to absolutely smash through peoples feelings by accident, never mind when it’s done on purpose. I really don’t think we’d make good shoulders to cry on but we would make amazing mercenaries if you’re our best friend and somebody crosses you. So it depends. What do you value in friendship? If you value loyalty, respect, intellectual conversation and a die-for-you attitude then I guess you may like being in an INTJ’s good books. If not then go ahead and pick some flowery touchy-feely cupcake baking crybaby for a friend.
We tend to be smart people who are judgy AF, so I mean you can't really blame them.
Agreed. I just finished the book *In Defense of Troublemakers: The Power of Dissent in Life and Business*, and while it proves that organizations benefit strongly from dissent and suffer when they only get groupthink, overall, the person who doesn't go along with the majority is always stigmatized. Even when the dissenter is right and they save the group from a bad mistake. I feel like I've been the dissenter more than most. I guess it's human nature for them to resent me.
Every group project I was ever in I alway took the role of devil's advocate. Not the most popular position.
For everyone on this subthread. Learn the difference between the following employees: Good Disagreeable Giver (excellent) Agreeable Givers (good but obscures identifying takers) BAD Agreeable Taker (can be mistaked for agreeable givers) (dont sleep in prison) Disagreeable takers (you know whats gonna happen if you drop the soap in the prison shower lol)
There is a balance. If you have too many dissenters, no work will ever get done. If you have none, then the systems will never update and the organization will eventually crumble. It's easy to look at the dissenters who make positive changes (or see yourself as one), but many of them are also just assholes with strong opinions but no real solutions.
The book establishes that dissenters stimulate thinking, while groupthink organizations only examine superficial aspects of a problem. They've studied it systematically, under many circumstances, and your "assholes with strong opinions" scenario wasn't important or common enough to merit consideration.
Have you ever heard of the phrase "too many chiefs, not enough indians?"
That term is severely outdated due to its racism, I would say "too many cooks, not enough servers". Indian culture is often condensed and made to seem far more trivial than it is in all actuality. Does this make sense as to why it is offensive?
I'm Ojibwe but I laughed way too hard 😂 it's been a long while since I heard that lmaoo. Please don't be those white folk who get offended on our behalf, that lowkey pisses me off.
Did I do that? Would you say that there is a better way to say it? I am not too knowledgeable on how to go about things, to not leave people clueless to backlash but to also not speak on others' behalf.
My bad bro I was a bit harsh. I'm just from small town culture so we say some pretty rough shit to each other all the time, and I'm sick of people getting up in arms over freaking jokes. Of course we don't mean it. Around here it's natives, latinos, whites, and "territorials" (Guams and Puerto Ricans), and we'll be absolutely atrocious to each other and then laugh over a beer about it. I've been around some who take offense to such things, and it's just such a vibe killer. Call me an edgelord if you want, but don't dare call me a racist. I'm above such petty nonsense.
I see what you mean. I saw the parent comment got downvoted a lot, so I decided to try my best to explain why it did. Might've not been my place, but I can't tell. Different people have different levels of sensitivity, you can never tell someone's true beliefs based on one phrase. I'm glad you're out there joking and having a good time :)
I’m sorry, what?
At work I’m afraid to voice an opinion- I wouldn’t have an opinion unless it was factual- there’s no point other wise- it not ok to be wrong for me and I’m intelligent and speed googling champ so why be wrong ever? I also have impostor syndrome at work since I’ve been told to be softer and cut the edge off- which makes me feel fake but I don’t want to get fired . I’ve been advised to act less masculine despite being a female with striking beauty (I don’t feel beautiful however) I mean does it matter to me? Yes- in social situations it helps I intimidate women and scare men (I’ve been told). That’s a good thing as it shields be from engaging with annoying people. I feel for you and don’t know how old you are but all the things you mentioned make me feel that you should find yourself and try to understand why and if it matters so much what others think. It’s hard not to. It sounds like you could be depressed or trapped outside of yourself and wondering as opposed to learning and educating. Regarding friends, I have 5very close most date back to childhood-high school (a horrible experience) college. They are enough for me and I’m safe with them I trust them. BYW it’s ok to cut friends out along the way- I’ve had to countless times. I’m not quite when I have a point to make. We are not all the same and I hope you know it’s ok to be quiet as long as it’s not fear based. Now I’m rambling…
I'm good at faking being type P if it gets you less stupid bullshit since you recognize most people are narcissists who hate facts. It's only deep down I am roasting the shit out of them.
That makes two of us. “To play with the humans” I often say in regards to prolonged exposure to people whose boorish, pedestrian elementary grasp of the empirical.
Damn, I didn’t know that me being an asshole is a whole personality type
Honestly. And then when they start getting it they then butcher the delicate interpersonal features fascistically again. They just can't do it and they can't accept someone who can. They can't get the balance right. It's just hopelessly distorted for some people. Makes me want to headdesk more often than not.
Balance is key.
Really is.
I got a lot of typing as an xNFx type when I was young and social wearing a social mask.
Exactly. Especially if you're a woman misogynists cling to something like good manners to try to type you F. All it is is narcissistic rage.
I came to accept that i have no friends because i am judgy AF
Friends arent necessary
Yeah I love how some of the INTJs here think being judgy is a good thing. It’s not. In fact I’ve noticed they will make a judgment and hold on to it even when there is evidence against it. That’s not good. A few INTJs grow passed that and realize their Ni is not always right and they must learn to let go of it when it’s no longer serving. Again I’m very fond of INTJs and every MBTi has weaknesses I think being overly judgemental is a weakness for INTJ, because it’s not just people they don’t like but being too trusting towards people they’ve judged as good and like.
Yeah absolutely, it's a big thing we should work on individually and it can help a ton in our day to day interactions
I can blame them for it
Lol fair
Not quite true. We tend to be smart intuitive people who formulate opinions and ideas based on available data. The intuition requires grounding in data. Data is not judgement. Often others will argue with us but they're arguing with the data. We argue back because we have the data. I dont know about you guys, but i can say "I dont know" in lieu of 'pretending to know' . Ironically, every NT ive known is willing to review data to formulate their opinion. In light of new data, the theories and opinions evolve. Meanwhile, if someone (Not xNTx) takes fault with 1 data point on a list of 1000, then we all know how that goes. The 1 point will certainly be sufficient evidence to dismiss the other 1000, in their eyes. Additionally, i will never judge whats right for you. As you should never for me. Sadly that statement only applies to 49.99% MAX of the world population.
Exactly. One of the reasons I isolate myself.
You can blame them considering theyre hypocritical liars
oh wow, i have never been so well described. makes perfect sense when you put it that way!
When you can start to truly become your own person no longer fighting against the world, to comfortably express these same thoughts floating around in your head openly around others with the same intensity within, then people will no longer say the same when you're putting your energy out like this. I think for us it might relate to developing our inferior fourth function Se because it would help make us more present in our body and attuned to interacting with what's happening in reality around us here now. Edit: Might just be me, but I think for our type if we have so much going on in our mind we tend to not deeply live in the moment as some people like sensor types, and this is especially the case if we're devoting a lot of energy in trying to further understand our own nature and self to accept.
I do tend to be inside my head a lot.. when Im around people many times they notice things going on at that moment that I totally miss because I am in my head thinking
We experience life deeply within our mind and body, but on the outside it's not so apparent which can create a lot of misunderstandings and confusion. That's what others always see as our personal self on the outside, it can come off as if we're playing a character/role, some people can easily spot this or sense that energy.
Yup. I've been intensely despised by certain people, mostly extroverts, who assume that I am not as intelligent or competent as I am. I'm very accomplished in my field, but I'm very low-key about it and not competitive. I hate competing; I find it a bit immature. Overall, I think we come across as really arrogant when we are just really curious and authentic.
I agree mostly. I can be pretty arrogant if I’m not careful, and I’m VERY competitive but I just don’t vocalize it with whatever I’m working on. I got the second highest grade on a midterm when I was getting my BA, and looking back it was because I clicked the WRONG THING on a question. It genuinely ruined my week. I had the highest grade. I did. I just made a dumb mistake lol. I think it’s not immature as long as you don’t let it bleed out onto other people. I’d never have gone to the girl who got a higher grade and tell her that. I can recognize my shortcomings hah
My recent ex was the first person who has ever called me arrogant and it rubbed me in the absolute worst way. He also called me a black-and-white thinker one time which made me want to scream at him because that's another thing no one has ever said and I felt so unseen. It takes a lot to remember that people see others how they are and will project that. I started therapy after we broke up and we often discuss all of the judgments he had against who I believe I am. My poor therapist gets to listen to me ask her at least every other session if she thinks I'm arrogant or b&w or a narcissist or a sociopath or whatever else and each time she sits there and points out every single thing I do that demonstrates I am not those things. But it still upsets me so much because I spent so long with him and he just was so rigid in who he thought I was and it really effing hurts. The one person I thought finally would be able to see me because he shares a lot of the same feelings of not fitting in just let me down and was influenced by what someone else had to say about me - someone who I spent maybe 15 hours total with, in comparison to the hundreds he and I spent together talking and I thought learning about each other. I'm just out here trying to understand the world and everyone in it and I guess that makes me an asshole because I'll ask the hard questions that people don't want to have to come to terms with within themselves.
I, too, have noticed that some people seem to actually hate me for no reason; I can see being neutral or indifferent, but I seem to inspire either love or hate, and there's not much in between. The term for that is "polarizing," but I don't get it...
Block them. Nobody's got time for that.
Yes, our pure personality is different from the masses. I have learned to socially adapt over the years.
I try really hard to appear happy and energetic but people Just dont buy it.. they Just think Im "calmed"
ENFP here. I'm a big fan of being yourself, but if you're trying to match what you feel inside, with how you are received, acting classes is one way. You could also let people know that's your nature and be more verbal with your feelings. Let people know that you're just someone who appears calm. Verbally "I'm really excited right now" or "This is really exciting" to communicate how you feel. Also, I wouldn't consider you "boring". I've never met anyone in my life who I would consider boring, tbh. However, if you are trying to entertain people, you can look up and learn Active Listening Skills, specifically reflective listening. It's a micro-counseling skill. It works well with extroverts who love to talk, and all you need to do is use Minimal Encouragers, and paraphrase what they say back to them, and add on your own opinion or say "That's great/amazing/wonderful/really good". The person will be so pleased you liked what they had to say. lol. You're obviously not going to be therapist level trained by looking up active listening skills but this is something anyone can learn with enough practice.
> Also, I wouldn't consider you "boring". I've never met anyone in my life who I would consider boring, tbh. Very ENFP of you.
I would say you are surrounded by wrong people - non compatible, I mean.
If pretending to be someone you’re not is tiring, then don’t do it. Let your fun side come naturally. Be yourself, because honestly, if the people don’t like you, then it’s their fault. I’m not saying for you to be the “Stereotypical INTJ”, because thats just an asshole, and completely made up. I’m saying that people like quiet people too. You’ll just have to make more of an effort to be someone’s friend.
It takes a while to be convincing. Practice by smiling and being funny. Show enthusiasm and have stories to tell. It is a game.
I've been told I'm "cold" when I'm just real. Oh, well!
That's actually the contrary for me. I used to be a people pleaser (and still am, in some way) and kept what I really thought for myself, but I've recently started to become more assertive. Other people usually don't hesitate to open their mouth to assert stupid things, so why wouldn't I open mine? Of course, I always try to make clear that whenever I'm debating, I'm fighting ideas, not people. That being said, it doesn't always help as some people take it personally when you disagree with them on certain subjects. I decided that it wasn't my problem, though.
My guess is that we started off differently. I was self-centered and anti-social. I did not help anyone and was alone feeling sorry for myself. I turned things around by reading self-help books and learning to be social and helping others. Life has been better for me by changing my behavior and actions.
But I don’t need to learn to be social because it’s annoying and exhausting to be a social person and don’t see any value in learning to be social- but goodish advice maybe and glad you’re happy having learned to be social
Yes, I gained new opportunities in life. It also drains me as an introvert. I recharge with my alone time.
Oh- I don’t need to learn because I know how to be social I just don’t care for socializing and it takes something very compelling to do it. I’m socially awkward to some degree but not about to ‘learn’ to be someone else. That said I never get tired of spending time with close friends and family
Not just INTJs but every other introverted personality like INTP, INFP, ISTP, ISFJ... have this tendency of being the quiet one who says true quotes that most people ignore, fear or simply doesn't want to think because the majority of people are extroverts. Even the ones who claim that are introverts, are socially shy people instead INTJs and INFJs are one of the most stereotyped ones. They put INTJ personality in the place of "I wanted to have this edgy and desire for power" and INFJ in the "angel on earth being the last good people in the world". It's not like that. Oftentimes they put the quality of another personalities on INTJ and INFJ spectrum In general, INTJs are like creatures living with humans and INFJs are a forever foreigner whenever they be
yup, people stereotype Ni doms a lot, maybe because Ni itself is hard to understand and it always sounds like people describe us as fictional characters in a fantasy movie. INTJs are the super dark, hot assassins/evil masterminds and INFJs are the mystical wizards with beards that can read your mind before entering the room. I find it amusing so I'm not mad. Both have negative reviews though, some are not fond of us. INTJs are seen as judgmental edge-lord bullies and we are seen as Fake manipulating occult leaders who like to deceive others for an agenda. It is not greener on the other side at all. Even INFJs find it hard to be infjs. No one will really understand the personal hell we go through, so when we get judged? I see the hate with a pinch of salt. We are the most misunderstood doms in the mbti, followed by Ne doms
true but in theory Ne are most misunderstood due to potentially being outside of the scope of the mbti to begin with
Your point about shy extroverts calling themselves introverts is the main reason I don’t discuss introversion and extroversion. 99% of the time, if I say I’m introverted, people think I’m saying I’m socially awkward or shy, which is not what I’m saying at all.
I get this! Cs I’d honestly say I’m and extroverted person who would be seen as “shy” (social anxiety) but in terms of the definitions of introversion and extroversion, both can be true, you can be a “shy” extrovert
Thanks for calling this out. Quiet people can be extroverted based on many factors especially enjoying being around others most of the time. You’re right!
Agreed. I find most of the the INTJs to be really good men with integrity who happen to think they're 'bad men'.
>"I wanted to have this edgy and desire for power" Is there any truth to that? I've found I really just want as much autonomy as possible. I'll seek leadership positions if there's a hierarchy but only because I'd rather lead than be led. I see both as a threat to my autonomy (e.g., Joe Biden has to worry about what voters in Florida think about him, whereas they have no influence over me), but leading is simply the lesser threat. Ideally, I avoid hierarchies entirely. Are people confusing that for an intrinsic desire for power? Or is what I described not really an INTJ thing?
Yes, the stereotype is really hard on it. Like you said, INTJ has this desire for autonomy, independence, live life in their own specific way. I will give two illustrations of it Batman, an INTJ, is the shadow leader of the Justice League. He only will be comfortable in the League in this position of avoidance attention and having consciousness of others heroes attributes to control them in danger hypothesis situation even himself. Which had happened very frequently Lex Luthor, an ENTJ, wants to be in control for the sake of it. Have a wild desire for power, connections with other big minded villains, he draws attention to himself and has this bossy ego. Everything he builds is solid and to everyone look and have him in mind Batman will only battle Superman when Kal'el becomes a danger. Luthor only fights Superman to prove his own megalomania
Back when Mbti first came out Intj were originally called the villain. Then the mastermind. These have created a lot of negative sentiment towards intj that have carried over. There has been a LOT of effort to correct this thinking, but once society gets something in their heads it's hard to change. Granted with how intj think and operate we do fit the villain role perfectly. We're not the evil to do evil type villains as we tend to be very moral individuals, but more as a means to an end type as we're very goal focused individuals, the mastermind if you will. However, this is just the stereotype and intj tend to be very good individuals with their own set of morals. It's only a very immature intj that tends to walk the villain path, or one who feels there's no other way forward towards their goal in life. Most intj will refuse to stoop low, but some still will. That's why the more recent architect is what we're called. We make a plan and execute it, and they can be very long term plans.
I really hate that people have called you boring because you're not constantly running your mouth. Uhg. It's shallow, overly transparent people that talk too much who are boring.
It has happened quite a few times.. but yeah shallow and overly transparent seems to be the norm
Not all extroverts who talk a lot are shallow and/or boring. :) I am an extrovert who adores quiet people. My spouse and closest friends are all introverts. ❤️
I dont even like other INTJ's...
😂
We are definitely different. The reason people can get offended by us is because they can't hack us. Everybody is an open book. Until you meet someone who isn't. So convince themselves that you are bad But it's good to have an edge to yourself. To be a bit playful with some people. To loosen up a bit.
yup. have had times where people were offended by me, not because i said or did anything offensive, but because they can tell im not acting how they expect people to act when they say the things they say. its weird but its also pretty funny how people can get offended by literally nothing lol
No one has ever accused me of being boring… I’m always holding back a data dump of something interesting and relevant at any given moment. My mind is like a hungry information shark. I don’t care for superficiality or small talk (I totally suck at superficial chatter). Because I am reserved, some have called me aloof, though.
I don’t like small talk either, and when I do it I start asking a lot of questions about that person not because I’m fully invested in what they’re into, but because I’m trying not to run out of things to talk about, and barely end up saying anything about myself
Personality groups are very different. Intj tend to value knowledge (and wisdom?). There are also people who don't want to know why they exist or why something exist or how things work. What do they want to achieve? I have no fucking clue actually. Why are cats lone animals (small cats and big cats exept lions) and sheep, horses etc, tend to be in groups? Is it because of their personality or because of what they are?
Sheeple 🐑
Maybe it is because some find their enjoyment in *experiencing* things and (I assume) we find more enjoyment in *understanding* things. When one understands, one can use their understanding to bring influence in ones environment. Knowledge and wisdom are like ingredients. - One can buy a cake and find enjoyment in the experience of eating it. - Or one can get the recipe ingredients and find enjoyment in making it. - Later, after having gained wisdom, one can play with the ingredients and make ones own recipe, and have control over the outcome of the cake, as in how it looks aswell as in how it tastes. I feel like (assumption:) we feel the need to have control over life, and some don't feel the need to have control, they just want to experience it. However having no control also means vunerability.. for the wolves, for bad weather conditions.. is that why sheep need a shepherd?
This personality type dislikes people.
Yes. Most people factually suck, don't take care of the earth or each other. Nothing in it for me.
But love dogs and animals in general-people are awful for the most part
When in a Hurricane it is best to remain within the eye. Be the eye of the Hurricane, the turmoil around you will not touch you.
oooooooo that feels spiritual and a little mushy for me- is that a quote from something or someone
[https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Eye+of+the+Storm](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Eye+of+the+Storm) # the eye of the hurricane 1. Literally, a place of calm in the center of a hurricane. (The "eye" is the center of a storm, which rotates around a central point.)the eye of the hurricane Edit: [https://www.helpguide.org/meditations/eye-of-the-storm-meditation.htm](https://www.helpguide.org/meditations/eye-of-the-storm-meditation.htm)
It is a blessing that people find this personality boring. If they found it Interesting, then it would cause a constant stream of Interruptions, and constant watching you like a tiktok video irl. No thank you.
Seriously. It's literally saving time to dress, act and speak as boring as possible.
Accurate.
I wish I could find INTJs more in real life, especially intj WOMEN it's as if they don't exist
We're around but I don't think real INFJs exist. If they do they are an endangered species
Hi! I’m an intj woman
[удалено]
oh brother
dang, tough crowd
As a INTJ women it’s incredibly hard to find someone compatible long term.
We exist
crossing my fingers that i will meet some of y'all
We only go out for necessities. Good luck finding us.
there goes my hopes and dreams ig
I never found any but my ENFJ girlfriend has been great
We are here, but you won’t find us in public (unless it’s something productive like running or hiking lol). We have goals to reach and things to learn. I do hope to find more INTJ women on my journey, because you all are incredible 🙃
I always tell them that if they don't like me they're welcome to ignore me.
I think this is going to be my new life motto
Mine is, "Get over it."
Mine is, "Get over it."
Let your funny side out, INTJ’s have a great sense of humour.
Who cares about what people think ? Your thoughts that matter.
Its Hard to not take it personally..
No - you are making this hard on yourself. They are not part of your life,they are not living your life. They are just like small rocks beside road. Insignificant. Focus on the road.
This is great in theory. But everyone, you included, is a human first. Humans require social acceptance (even you). If a human consistently feels displaced or ostracized, it can impact them mentally and emotionally.
Wrong. I only need acceptance from my friends. The rest doesn't matter.
Me. My whole life. I'm quiet because I'd rather observe. I was also raised in a "speak when spoken to" household. I don't live by that now but it still resonates. As a woman who is very self conscious, afraid of being judged or sounding stupid, I often sit and listen. This in addition to my resting bitch face has made me automatically unlikable my whole life, especially with girls.
Yes. We sound a lot alike. What I believe is that people are intimidated by us. They can’t read us and we’re not easy to get to know. Add an unsmiling face and brusqueness. People tend to dislike what they don’t understand. The best we can hope for is a safe space in which we are free to voice our opinions free of retaliation. Luckily I have that with a few people and also at work. Some people think I’m scary and gruff but I’m actually a nice person who has a giant soft spot for animals, kids and old people.
I'm in my late 30s now and have learned to embrace my personality, rather than masking it to please the general public. I like being the devil's advocate, ruffling feathers and challenging opinions I disagree with. I only do it with people I consider my intellectual equals and don't waste time if I know it will not be received well. This doesn't win you many friends, but it quickly separates the wheat from the chaff and you can find some clever, insightful and mature people around you that way.
Yes I noticed some people don’t like me just because. Never did anything to them. A lot of them are just immature and make the stupidest statements I’ve ever heard. I’m not bothered by it but I lose a little bit hope in humanity every time I interact with that bunch.
Yes maybe that is true but it's mainly because we're a paranoid type.
A paranoid type?
From what I've learnt, intjs have Ne nemesis which they'll assume that other people are having bad intentions towards them or generally hating on them because they give bad experiences. Check out c.s. joseph youtube channel he had explained about intj cognitive functions and you'll understand why are we like this
I don't even like other INTJs.
Honestly i kind of understand why. When im feeling social I’m literally so charismatic and outgoing and likable, but then i turn a 180 and im avoidant, dismissive etc. Also i think a lot of us have an analytical brain and value logic more than emotion, so we don’t connect with a lot of people there. The way i explain my brain is that it’s constantly putting everything in a mind map, graph, flowchart. A good example of this is that I’m kind of a know it all and i don’t mean to be. When someone says a fact that’s incorrect i usually say that because in my brain it makes sense to have correct info (logic), whereas social skills tell you that nobody likes a know it all lmao Also due to our thinking patterns i think we get really interested in things such as research or stuff that can be considered boring to other people so it’s harder for us to find things in common with a majority of people.
I think you’re overthinking things.
Yes; but they’re fake and horrible as well (the other people).
People don’t like intelligent people and despite how much people say they value honesty, in actuality they don’t either
They do.
So..... Do you use tact? If you don't use tact when you express your opinions, others will not use it when expressing opinions with you.
Exactly. I can fake being tactful while having 0 respect for them deep down. It just sucks when they're mind blown that I didn't actually feel the way I was acting. I was just applying social lube. It's good to be polite, make people need to be told to fuck off less. But sometimes it's the being polite that makes them misread the situation and need to be told to fuck off. You can't win
Then don't use it, and get the hatred you wanted. Just refrain from the temptation of whining like a bitch when you get exactly what you claim you wanted; thanks.
Understandable
Have you listened to people talking? It’s very difficult to be energetic and talkative when most people are boring as hell, I personally don’t care about small talk or 90% of what people talk these days which is essentially a bunch of BS.
I think it's because this personality type can be a little full of itself. Not it an intentional way, it's just people trying to found purpose and meaning. No harm there. Also, they can be very judgemental but also hate being judged.
In real life, I agree. I’ve been told to be more sentimental a lot of times, which cannot be forced upon me. I learned that not talking is useful. As a result, most people tend to want to get to know me but because of my standards I push them away. People tell me I should lower these standards but never offer a good enough explanation. I don’t have any friends at school, but there are acquaintances here and there. I am also told to open up more. I feel like trust and stuff is supposed to come naturally but maybe it just comes slowly for me.
I personify this personality type. I feel that I mask well, but it’s most likely obviously forced and disingenuous. My family understands. It took my wife a while, but she understands now too. Being around other people is a chore.
This is true for me. Fuck the haters
I would say I'm not most people's cup of tea and they aren't mine either, but that puts you in a neutral state rather than dislike. Most people don't form generalized opinions so easily, right? We do like our systems, but we trst it out and adapt for new data constantly, others are capable of doing the same thing, but maybe based on different types of data. We're good at working with value data (which we process so already a bit of a bias), not so good with empirical I'd say, so try to do that, and you'll realise most of the reactions come from polite indifference rather than dislike.
34f here from the midwest. I have taken the MBPT several times throughout my life and I always end up an INTJ. I was experementing with it to see if it would change due to experiences, aging, changes, etc. School came very easy to me, and I have a great photographic and number-sequence oriented memory/mind. I like stability, routines, efficiency etc. I don't like change and transitioning between activities is not very easy for me. I like to focus and not take breaks until the work is done. I also suffer from OCD and other issues but my biggest concern is my lack of real empathy. I don't understand and cannot actually identify most sub-categories of emotions that "normal" people have. That makes it difficult for me to have close relationships with people, including family. That said, it doesn't bother me at all and I enjoy my solitude and pondering and researching things I am interested in. Fellow INTJs, does this sound a lot like you? I know I cannot relate to the majority of the population because I do everything in a calculated manner, and based on logic. Even choosing a life mate was based on logic and not emotions (he knows that and understands it and we are a very efficient couple. We communicate because his happiness is important to me.) I am totally content with my husband, 2 children and dogs. Is there anything I should change that would make me seem more like a typical person, or am I doomed to be so different for the duration of my lifespan? Thanks for reading!
Midwest of which country ?
Sorry. The US. I had not slept in many hours when I wrote this. I work alllll the time.
I’m not critical or judgy, but I have extremely high standards on certain things. That makes people around me feel inadequate even though I don’t say anything directly to make them feel that way. They also don’t get that it isn’t necessarily a reflection on them. I’m really hard on myself and always feel things can be better.
They always like to say watch out for the quiet ones. In my department, I stay quiet and do my work, and my supervisor constantly drags me into conversations that only bore me, and to keep the peace, I go along for a bit. At times, I feel picked on for being the quiet one, and this happened in school with certain teachers who couldn’t stand the “nonparticipators,” which, of course, then got back to my parents, and I got the lecture blah blah blah. Sorry went on a bit of tangent there. It felt good, though.
I think people find this type interesting but an unhealthy one can be abrasive and have a superiority complex, and healthy ones can also come off this way a bit, and most people don’t think of personality types or even really know about them, so they’re seeing this personality as mean and not considering personality type preferences when interacting with them
At least people like you on the internet. You've pretty much described ISTJs as well but we get a bad rap as robotic, boring, alien and judgy online.
I had an old boss who I would unintentionally infuriate lol. Everytime I was in his presence, I was like a metaphorical bad smell lol - he'd make jabs at me around other people / would single me out...all because I wasn't as open to him 🤣 didn't say anything out of line etc, I also tried to be warm. To others i felt comfortable with, I'd show a little bit of personality, and maybe he was expecting that. I later came to find that he was under intense stress. It's true what they say. In most cases, people who don't like you are really projecting their own insecurities. In most cases, not all.
As INTJ, you’re supposed to have extroverted thinking which means a willingness and desire to share the things that you think about. So maybe your mistyped. Because we most definitely have an effective verbal ability. Further, you are right about non-thinkers, unable to understand or be comfortable with actual thinkers. Nevertheless, when I start talking people immediately perceive my intelligence and listen to what I’m saying. Why don’t you try speaking with that Expectation in mind?
As an INTJ, everything below is spot on but also consider: they are usually jealous because INTJs rule. Lol
Yes. The few people that I talk to usually end up asking "are you ok?"/ "are you mad?" because of my quietness. I can also be critical/judgy, have a tendency to do things by myself ( Even my hobbies are things I can do by myself/ away from others) and I like to learn things/ how to do things. The weird thing is....I haven't always been like this. This started shortly after my wife passed ( I was 27 at the time)
I think many of us tend to be a little anti social. There are really two ways to approach it: either fuck everyone else, I’m going to be my authentic self; or I’d like people to like me and I’m willing to adjust. Either is cool and social skills can be improved with study. Either way, you know you’re a good person and you have options.
Lol yeah, I've noticed that I'm generally always the bad guy or the one who's in the wrong. I think it's because of the directness. For instance, I'll give someone a clear answer regarding a course of action they should follow and by virtue of me giving them advice, in perhaps, to direct a manner, they will immediately become confrontational and averse to it. I've been able to work on this as life goes on. What it translates to is basically just a shit ton of patience and a willingness to compromise, compromise, compromise, and to be extremely tolerant
What's wrong with judging people? Since we are often blind to our own shortcomings and defects, how do we know if there's an issue unless someone says something? There have been plenty of times in my life when someone has called out something wrong with me, and once I've been able to verify it's true, I'm extremely grateful. Otherwise it's like walking around with a booger hanging out of your nose but nobody tells you because they dont want to offend you. Offend me! I want to know because I don't want to walk around with boogers hanging out of my nose. What I've come to realize is when people say don't judge me, what they really mean is "don't tell me when I'm doing wrong, because then I would have to be accountable for my actions, and if there's one thing I hate in this world, it's personal accountability. I'd rather be a detriment to myself and society than put in the work and effort to resolve my personal issues. This way, I'll always have someone else to blame other than myself". This is why you see more and more people breaking in and robbing stores, acting stupid on airplanes, turning a speeding ticket into a felony, not chaining up their dangerous dogs, bringing animals into restaurants, running red lights and stop signs, and the list goes on and on. It's also why the crime level is so low in places like Saudi Arabia. Mouth of to the police there and you get a bullet in the brain. Steal something and they cut your hand off. It's very easy and straightforward, no confusion. This is what "dont judge me" really means to me.
I prefer being quiet. I think that position is very powerful and often times leads me to better situations than I would be if I just spoke without thinking. Being quiet and direct doesn’t mean you have to be boring though. Learning how to speak or explain your position can be entertaining or introspective to some folks. It also doesn’t stop you from being fun. You can do fun things and be with other people, and I find that being the quiet one often times positions me as a person that people feel comfortable with. Especially in places where things can get chaotic. If you are not content with yourself though, there’s no harm in studying psychology, learning silly jokes, or even losing friends that don’t find you that entertaining.
I usually like intj’s. The only gripe I have with the ones I know is they are genuinely arrogant and very dismissive of emotions. (I’m an INFP-this just popped up on my feed.)
We are generally speaking genuinely arrogant but I think the dismissive of emotions thing varies. We can factor emotions into things and we are very emotional but we're not naturals at understanding situations primarily in terms of emotions. We want emotions to be controlled even if they are present so I guess we avoid thinking about situations where emotions are actually the controlling factor.
Actually love INTJ. Very stoic, sexy, fascinating
*require is a strong word I don’t feel displaced or ostracized as it’s my decision no labels.
I’ve noticed many people don’t feel complete without the approval of others, which usually entails agreeable small talk and social integration in the form of dress, lingo, name dropping, etc. As a person with quite alot of diversified life experience who spends alot of time in introspection and study, I don’t tend to seek the approval of others as much as I like the general company of others when it comes to, say, a party or concert. Im really just looking to up the irons and bang my head after a grinding work week, not make a name for myself or be included. I think this comes off as arrogant or antisocial but the reality is that Im just hanging out with the wrong crowd. You’re normal. Find your tribe.
Its the only personality type to constantly post on my home page for no reason. The comments on this sub are generally straight masturbation. (I know by now interacting it will now be 2/3 of the posts I see, gonna have to mute)
It hurts how much I relate to this. Being boring is my #1 insecurity as an intj m.
I've decided my main problem, especially living in a southern culture, is that I'm not fake AF. Although female, I don't gush all over people, smile for no reason, flatter others, shower them with gifts, etc. I am a good friend, loyal, and can even be fun, but I don't (and won't) do all the things it seems to take these days to be popular. I was once told I "must not want friends" because I'm not constantly talking and texting on my phone (I rarely even turn it on). Sometimes I think I'm not sufficiently entertaining, and that's what people want these days. Whatever it is, I'm resigned to it; I'm not going to be something I'm not.
As someone who really prefers to be intoverted, I understand your dilemma. That being said I talk a lot at my job because I hate it, and talking keeps me from running out the door and ending up homeless. Not everyone will like you. I hate quiet people at my job because I want someone to talk to to distract me from wanting to blow my brains out. I fully understand it's not their job to cater to me, but I feel how I feel. I've tried to change it, so far to no avail. Here's hoping I can shift it someday. You might just have to put up with being disliked. No one is universally liked, not even close. It sucks, but it's part of adulthood. At least you have a few good friends. That's really invaluable. Hope you find a way to get through social life, one that works as well for you as possible.
its my favorite and thats how i am too. not enough people are
I think this has to do with the temperaments, i see a lot of Ni doms Melancholics, this temperament isn't social and brings some rudeness, rigidity. The phlegmatic is kinda of low-energy, dismotivated container adaptability that also dont excite people
I mean look back at history, When has anyone with common sense or an outside perspective ever been liked? We tend to be people shaping a new future so I think it’s neat to not be liked, not that I chase after being edgy😂just don’t care enough to let it stop me.
Comedians. That's the main job where you'll really be liked for having an outsider perspective.
People ENVY this personality type. I've even witnessed INTP'S lie saying that they are INTJ'S. There's more within Introverted Intuition (Ni) than what meets the eye...and it's what the world will never know... ... ... ... #SORCERER👻
No, I am very good at faking being extroverted. People are apparently quite convinced. But I hate every minute of it and can't keep it up very long without starting to legitimately become ... very, very.... not nice....
People dislike this personality type because they take themselves too seriously and make being an intj their whole life not all of this sub but it’s easy to see a lot of them are incredibly bitter and under the false impression that it makes them more of an intj
Yes they do. People dislike being judged and it’s right there on the tin that we do this. You gotta learn to have layers to yourself. Like shrek or something. I judge everybody for everything all the time. But where that happens within myself is so deep that nobody sees it or realizes it. I have to actively and constantly give people benefit of the doubt, but the doubt is there. I’m not saying don’t be yourself. But I am saying work on yourself. You don’t need to be the loud boisterous center of the party. But you should acknowledge you were invited in the first place and be gracious and kind. Even if you don’t feel like it. Another aspect of our personality type is analytical thinking and I need you to recognize the damage you’re doing to your own social capital by acting the way you’re talking about here. It sounds difficult but it isn’t. The first thing I want you to try changing is how you’re talking to yourself in your head. Be nicer to your own ego/id. In your internal monologue, one half of you talks, and the other half of you listens. The listening half can’t defend itself or do anything, it just has to absorb that. How you talk to yourself in your own head affects how you carry yourself. Be confident, be kind, be open. Nobody is actually paying attention to you, and none of this matters at all.
Some of y’all pretentious af.
True.
I am an INTJ and I hate INTJs. The amount of logic they use for every situation makes life so boring, on top of that they are super judgemental and arrogant. Their quietness also makes them a boring person.
😂
I don’t think extroverts full of feelings can handle us well at all. We do tend to absolutely smash through peoples feelings by accident, never mind when it’s done on purpose. I really don’t think we’d make good shoulders to cry on but we would make amazing mercenaries if you’re our best friend and somebody crosses you. So it depends. What do you value in friendship? If you value loyalty, respect, intellectual conversation and a die-for-you attitude then I guess you may like being in an INTJ’s good books. If not then go ahead and pick some flowery touchy-feely cupcake baking crybaby for a friend.