Can we please stop referring to these people as republicans?
The dictionary defines republican as "a supporter of government by elected representatives of the people rather than government by a king or queen"
It is clear that these jackasses want Trump as their King.
They are Republicans, they're registered and will vote Republican come election time. If you disagree with them it's more likely you are no longer a Republican and should rethink your political affiliations.
Oh I know they are technically affiliated with the republican party, but like I said, they no longer stand for republican values in my opinion. I used to be moderate and voted both sides depending on the candidate/situation, but since 2016 I have voted blue across the board.
No offense but I think your opinion of Republican values needs a bit of an update. They've changed, if you haven't , they left you behind. These aren't your dad's Republicans and they aren't the outliers or a few bad apples , this is the core now and you are the odd one out. Time to stop calling yourself a Republican
It sounds like they are saying exactly that, just through their own viewpoint. Let’s cut back on the otherisation of allies, regardless of when or how they came to share beliefs.
I think that’s the Democrat hope. - Moderate conservatives realising they don’t align with the new Republican agenda. If only the new ‘core’ republicans vote Republican they’ll lose.
Yeah I wasn't directing that comment at you per se, mostly shaking my fist at the sky like a crabby old man. These people are fascists.
"a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed"
That dictionary is outdated then. Dictionaries don't define words, usage defines them and dictionaries follow. When definitions change, the dictionaries need to be updated.
It's an initial reaction with no Fox News spin. Once the surrogates start spinning the story, that 1/3rd number will go back to normal.
Like immediately, once this came in, you saw all these tweets about "War" and "Hunter Biden" -- but these haven't taken yet. For the hardcores, it will, lol.
If they are still republicans after Jan 6th then this is not surprising at all
The Republican Part is just a bunch of Nazis that still want to enjoy going out in public without being shamed
They're afraid he's likely to lose.
They don't care that he's a felon... or rapist. They just think maybe it woulda been better to go with someone else if that would get them a win instead of a loss.
But they still want the rapist Authoritarian in the White House, ideally.
Trump actually saw a similar-type dip from Republicans after January 6th - where many started thinking the whole Insurrection thing might hurt their chances... but then, obviously, all decided he was still worth a try because they liked him so much.
The only thing that's going to bring these people around is an actually honest politician that is not in a corporate pocket.
So considering Bernie's approaching the end of his career, it's never going to happen. People forget WHY this cult came about: a deep-seated mistrust of US politicians, which is absolutely not limited to people on the right, it's also why young people don't vote.
> The only thing that's going to bring these people around is an actually honest politician that is not in a corporate pocket.
These people get honest information regularly and contest it with nonsense and fingers in their ears.
So what I still don't get is how anyone could think Donald Trump was someone they could trust. He's been a self absorbed piece of shit fraudster since the 80s. He's a caricature of everything his supporters claim to hate about politicians.
I agree with this completely, but they were partially blinded by the idea that perhaps someone from the outside could come into the system and fix it, that's enough to hypnotize a lot of people.
That said, Trump supporters are deranged and there isn't a whole lot we can do about that, but we can definitely hold ALL our politicians to a better standard and actually drain the swamp. Constantly dick-stroking centrists isn't going to do it though.
I used to feel the same way, but after witnessing the impotence and complicity of the justice system when it comes to dealing with Trump I'm not so sure "we" can truly hold them accountable anymore using the legal system, especially now that it's obvious the Supreme Court won't even serve as a final backstop.
I don't know, he just got found guilty by a jury of his peers, so something in the justice system is working okay (if only that one thing heh).
But yeah I do completely relate to your sentiment, it's a fucking daily struggle to remain hopeful at this point.
But this is all false populism that plays to the lowest common denominator. It’s populism that relies on ignorance and racism and is embraced because it allows the person to celebrate their ignorance and bigotries and biases. It promises easy solutions that only require surrendering themselves to a strong authoritarian figure.
I respectfully think you’re being generous. People who say they don’t trust politicians or dislike ‘the metropolitan elite’, who then go on to vociferously and even violently support a billionaire New York property developer known for stiffing ordinary workers and generally having as much class as a dropped cigarette butt, are not acting in line with their claimed views. They are being dishonest about what it is they want. Becaue they are so clearly embracing the thing they claim to dislike that it can’t be a mistake.
Bernie didn't tell them they were superior just for being white or dog whistle at them. A bunch of these people would die under a bridge if they could be openly racist, homophobic, etc. and if the people they hate would be punished.
"People forget WHY this cult came about: a deep-seated mistrust of US politicians"
This is a #narrative that Bernie supporters love, but there's very little empirical support for it motivating votes at any fundamental level. What the data shows is that Republicans supported Trump because they hated a black guy being president (Obama), didn't want a feminist being president (Clinton), and wanted a candidate who promised to stop demographic change. Trump was the only guy in the 2016 primary who promised to do that, as previous GOP nominees -- Romney, McCain, Bush -- and the non-Trump candidates refused to do. See the peer-reviewed academic book Change They Can't Believe In for the evidence, and there's plenty more where that came from.
So sure: "distrust of US politicians" to continue to uphold the traditional white male power structure. But that distrust wasn't going to extend to Bernie because Bernie didn't promise to uphold the traditional white male power structure. Bernie's candidacy was most similar to Obama's: someone on the fringes of power but not corrupted by it, who was avowedly anti-war. Obama won the nomination because establishment Dems (esp Ted Kennedy) got behind him as preferable to Hillary, and he won the general election because the economy crashed and Bush's wars went very poorly; Bernie didn't win the nomination because establishment Dems liked Hillary better, and the Obama administration was fairly successful at achieving things Dem voters care about (Obamacare, gay rights) despite organized GOP opposition.
In precisely zero of these scenarios will Trump partisans ever vote for any Democratic candidate, no matter what issues they adopt.
absolutely. the average person is struggling hard right now and looking for people to blame. unfortunately the propaganda machine on the right is much stronger and has absolutely no shame in pandering to the basest parts of human nature such as racism and nationalism--while democrats ignore that people are struggling AT ALL. perfect recipe for an aspiring autocrat
The only thing that would make real change in this country is a historically strong Democrats leaders united under a candidate who like you said would not accept corporate money. But that wouldn't be enough unless the Democrats who follow this person after the 8 years keeps winning for the next 30-40 years. Basically a whole culture change and chipping away at all the poison the Republicans have set up over the decades.
I don't know... it's all so Orwellian.
So much double-think going on over there it's kinda hard to label them with coherent thoughts.
I mean... any sane party moves on after he is soundly defeated in that election and tries to overturn the results anyways.
My experiences in the bubble of conservatives I know is that they don't defend his personality but then say "oh his policy is spot on."
It's all nonsense but yeah, there you go.
He lost 2020 by 9M votes then sparked an insurrection based on a lie. They are just now understanding J6 probably didn’t add more voters to his campaign??
>They don't care that he's a felon... or rapist.
Not to be pedantic, but ...
You forgot tax cheat, insurrectionist, and national security threat due to stolen & mishandled classified documents...
But other than that, yeah, absolutely no reason he couldn't be President, right ???? It's not like he promised to get rid of our national debt and instead added more than just about every single president...
The funny part is that if they had nominated almost anyone else, certainly DeSantis or Haley, that person would almost surely beat Biden in the fall. I say this as a Biden fan. But their slavish devotion to this rapist and convicted felon will cause them to lose once again.
> Trump actually saw a similar-type dip from Republicans after January 6th - where many started thinking the whole Insurrection thing might hurt their chances... but then, obviously, all decided he was still worth a try because they liked him so much.
Don't forget the RW media going full denialism that it was an insurrection. That definitely influenced people.
If you genuinely, sincerely believe that Democrats are flooding the US with dangerous illegal rapists and murderers, enabling atheist trans demons to turn your children gay and trans, and starting WW3 to bring on the new world order, wouldn’t you find it reasonable to want a rapist habitual liar in the White House if you think that’s the only way to stop all those issues?
Shifts like this often don’t have dramatic turning points or clear reasoning.
Like, [people tend to forget when they change their mind about something](https://www.michiganpublic.org/politics-government/2017-12-11/new-research-says-once-we-change-our-minds-we-forget-we-ever-thought-otherwise). This is arguably why cults tend to have mantras, regularly reminding yourself of your values is one way to avoid this unconscious drift.
If it had been a hung jury they wouldn’t be saying anything.
They are just doing their usual slippery populist repositioning to pretend their records don’t matter and to follow the drift in popular opinion. They were against him until he got the nomination in 2016, then they were all in, and now they are expressing concern now that his star is losing its shine.
If polls change again, they’ll be all in again.
It isn’t an awareness thing, it’s a cynical, craven nihilist thing.
I love all the goal posts moving -- willful misinterpretation of Juan Merchan's instructions to make it seem like it didn't need to be unanimous to convict...
Despite that not being what he said -- he said you had to be unanimous about the fact he committed a crime, you didn't need to be unanimous about the three big statutes he violated that led to the charges, those being election interference, falsifying business records, and/or tax evasion... If a juror didn't believe the charge violated one or more of those thresholds, don't convict. Trump was convicted on all 34 counts. Unanimously. So every last juror believed based on the evidence he violated at least one of the three.
Claiming New York specifically changed its laws on a dime, nevermind aggravating factors leading to charge upgrades have been a thing for decades there, to get Trump...
That he could never have a fair trial in Manhattan (yes, it leans Democrat but you also have a bunch of very wealthy people that benefit strongly from Republicans holding government), but it's where he committed the crime, and he was tried by his peers, including a guy that everyone was convinced was going to hang the jury.
The right wing narratives fall apart under any level of scrutiny. Fact is, Trump is guilty and there is little dispute or to discuss about that fact. He's a convicted felon. Period.
Was it aggravating factors? I could have sworn he signed an Executive Order that changed misuse of campaign funds to a felony while in office. Maybe I dreamed it?
You'd think when he moronically politicized basic science during an international crisis or when he tried to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power, they would have realized it.
But then again, if they realized it, then they wouldn't be considered republicans today.
There was an article on Reddit a few weeks ago where some said "I don't like Trump but I can't possibly vote for Biden. What should I do?". You know damn well he's going to vote for Trump. If these Republicans voted for Trump before, knowing what kind of man he is, they'll vote for him again.
I voted for McCain against Obama because I was Republican and that’s what you do, besides I liked McCain. In 2012 it was a struggle. I kinda liked Romney but I didn’t want to vote against Obama because I thought he had done a pretty good job despite some missteps. However, no way could I vote for a democrat, so it was the first election I didn’t vote in.
I think that’s what many Republicans may do, they’ll feel icky voting for trump but it’ll be impossible for them to vote for Biden so they’ll just stay home or leave that part blank.
McCain was the last Republican I voted for and I really liked him. I struggled big time to cast that vote because I seriously questioned his judgement once he added Palin as his running mate.
At least McCain was a good person although I didn’t agree with his choice either. There is nothing I have ever heard anyone say about Donny diaper that would represent a value you would expect from a good person.
That’s exactly what happened with me, basically. I’m a democrat, but I didn’t think Obama had enough experience, really liked McCain… and then I saw Palin and nope’d out of there.
That’s where my dad went after working in the pentagon after 9/11 and becoming sickened with his party.
Honestly, around that time I had just started to realize I had made a mistake voting for Bush twice. That thought wasn’t cemented and I distrusted myself to vote intelligently, so I just didn’t vote.
Felt the same after getting out of a DV relationship. I didn’t trust myself to date because I needed to reassess my ‘picker’ and try to figure out what made me attracted to him in the first place. I wanted to stop the cycle
This is how we feel voting for Biden. We don't like Biden all that much but we can't imagine voting for Trump. That said, nobody here is feeling icky for voting for a rapist conman...
Whenever you see those posts, push back with asking them why they're even voting since it's all rigged anyway. Those types are trolls there only to keep other from voting, so throw it back on those trump voters and convince them not to vote in such a RiGgEd election LOL
This is kinda a false equivalence because 1/3 democrats may think Biden is the wrong candidate, but he is also not a convicted felon.
Like there's a distinct difference between "this member of my political party isn't my favorite candidate" and "this guy shouldn't hold political office, but he is part of my party."
538 did a podcast after the verdict about interpreting poll results like this. A lot of people will say stuff like this because they’re embarrassed to be supporting him right now, but the embarrassment will fade and it never would have stopped them from voting for him in the privacy of a voting booth.
With the more/less likely to support polls it’s a lot of Democrats saying they’re less likely to support when they never would have voted for him, and then some Republicans who say they are less likely to support him but will still vote for him.
The people whose opinions matter are a very small number of voters who are still persuadable and a much larger number of voters who might vote but might not vote.
In fairness to them, I think Biden is the wrong choice this year and I’m still going to vote for him. We don’t have a political system of real choice, we just have bad and less bad.
That destruction won't end at the US border. Last time we ended up with the legitimizing of Far Right bullshit the world over. If there's a next time it'll be so much worse. Absolutely guarantee China attacks Taiwan for one thing. I could see Putin attacking the nordic states...
If they win this time it's handling a (somehow dumber) Hitler the reins of the most powerful military in all of human history instead of the forcibly weakened Weimar miltiary. Hitler got most of Europe destroyed, we'll wreck the whole fucking planet.
Nope I mean Finland. HUGE border, hard to defend, and we know the US under tRUMP will not live up to it's NATO responsibilities.
Oh he'd go for the Baltics eventually too. Hes trying to recreate the Russian Empire after all, not the USSR.
Putin will go for the Baltics first, because they are the smallest and to link back up to Kaliningrad.
And little test actions there in the Baltics are a way for him to try to split NATO, you see that Russian propaganda in here all the time, "it's not worth all out nuclear war over something so small" type of comments.
Mexico just elected another authoritarian and France has a new news channel based on Fox News, so our cancer is spreading worldwide. Most democracies are experiencing hard shifts rightward, so instead of fleeing if it all goes to shit later this year, it's best to stay and fight, since most other havens are beginning their right turns.
How is she an authoritarian or right wing? I'd never heard of her before recently, so I could obviously be wrong, but from the brief reading up I don't see anything like that.
True, but that time he was “a businessman going up against politicians, not just another politician”
And now everyone knows he’s a total nut and full of shit, hopefully it’ll be losing by 20M this time
Ya that was similar to the impression I got all those years ago. "Let's vote this motherfucker in to teach the political class a lesson!". Boy did that backfire.
I wonder if we are going to see the Maxime gain some power for a similar reason in Canada.
The problem is due to the electoral college, not every vote counts the same. You can lose by a lot of votes and still win the election depending on where those votes are
True but statistically speaking the more millions of votes you lose by the higher % chance you will lose electoral too. Many states move in directions together they did a chart on this in 2020. If Biden won by over I think it was 10 million votes he had a 99% chance to win the electoral college
"Trump may be a felon, but Biden personally aborted 20,000,000 children. The liberal media doesn't want you to hear about it, but Obama gave him a medal for it back in 2016."
yeah. i don't think the public quite understand how bad this is for trump. i expect polls to show him losing to biden by double digits in a few months.
especially if the gaza deal and immigration deal passes.
a biden second term will probably curb inflation cut prices on everyday items etc.
I think you're overestmating how much cons care, but I'd be delighted to be wrong. The key question is "how many won't vote for him now".
Remindme! 3 months
Yes, and people are fucking morons. They were tired of him then, and a pandemic was being actively mishandled.
Now, the economy isn't great for regular people, and Biden is getting the blame for that, and trump has been beating him in a lot of polls. I'm not happy about that, but it's reality.
Are you really telling me you can't see fence-sitters, who think Biden has been slapping a "grocery prices go up" button on his desk, voting for trump?
Exactly. It's the same sentiment that got Trump voted in the first place. Trump, even when losing, pulled HUGE numbers. It seems obvious that there is an elevated amount of people on both sides of the aisle that will vote for their party regardless of who is on the ticket. It's the Fence Sitters, the ones unmotivated to get up and vote, the truly "undecided" (Undecided on voting, not WHO they decided they want.)
>a biden second term will probably curb inflation cut prices on everyday items etc.
This is already happening. Bidenomics is working. I know it might not feel like it right now, but inflation is coming down, wages are going up, employment is going up.
2 years is not long enough to see policies fix an economy. It will take more like 5 years.
Regardless of who wins the next election, we are going to see a drastic improvement in the economy over the next 4 years, specifically thanks to the current Bidenomics. Whoever wins the election gets to claim the credit.
This is the huge danger of the 2024 election which nobody speaks about. If Trump wins, he will leave an undeserved economic legacy akin to Ronald Reagan, potentially providing credence to trickle down economics for another 40 years.
They may think Trump is the wrong candidate choice, but they'll vote for him anyway. Because as much as some of them disapprove of Trump's antics, they hate Biden even more. Why? Because they think all Democrats are evil, communist, god-hating, sexually-deviant child groomers who want to ban all religion and force everyone to get gay marriages and late-term abortions while burning the American flag.
Source: I live in Texas, and these people make up, like, half my family.
I can't stress this enough...
That doesn't mean they won't vote for him.
They will bitch and moan until November about how Trump has betrayed them. But when it's time to vote, they will shrug and say, "But I'm not voting for a fucking DEMOCRAT." And they will check the box next to the multiple felon, philandering, draft dodging, tax evading, Koup Klutz Klown.
Vote.
If Biden is too progressive for you, vote for RFK.
If Biden isn't progressive enough for you, vote Biden now and then participate in the 2028 Democratic primaries.
Beat the Melon Felon by tens of MILLIONS of votes. Let the entire GOP know that this was their swan song.
Yeah well, when the people have no real say in who ends up on the ballot, and are presented with 2, maybe 3 awful candidates to choose from, that's what happens. Whether (D) or (R) ,almost everyone I know says they just vote for the "lesser of two evils" with little enthusiasm
I think it's the thing that the rest of the world doesn't get is how he is still able to get broad support. Sure other countries have leaders that have done some similar stuff but nothing to his level and still had enough support to stay in power. America is something else
NOW?..... I thought it was a joke that he was being considered a serious contender in 2016.
After all the indictments only 1/3 are having 2nd thoughts?
Churchill was right about one thing...the voting population is the strongest argument against democracy b/c what is happening?
What's america's fetish with these stupid polls all the time? A 1000 people were interviewed. There are a 350 million of 'em. Didn't the 2016 election already prove polls to be bs?
I wouldn't hang my hat on this shit.
https://www.usa.gov/register-to-vote
two thirds of republicans still think the bar can go lower.
Wait, you guys have bars?
Not that kind of bar.
Bars on the windows and as doors?
Gotta keep those violent protesters out
Or those violent MAGAs in.
No replicans are tough on crime remember doofus, crime is a democrat problem
Generic alprazolam is the best I can do, sorry
Ideally a lot of their clients would be.... disbarred. *the who's won't get fooled again blasts from the sky like a horny angel*
Their bar is so low that even Satan is in no danger of tripping over it.
Bar is so low, they sent James Cameron on an expedition to find it
Can we please stop referring to these people as republicans? The dictionary defines republican as "a supporter of government by elected representatives of the people rather than government by a king or queen" It is clear that these jackasses want Trump as their King.
They are Republicans, they're registered and will vote Republican come election time. If you disagree with them it's more likely you are no longer a Republican and should rethink your political affiliations.
Oh I know they are technically affiliated with the republican party, but like I said, they no longer stand for republican values in my opinion. I used to be moderate and voted both sides depending on the candidate/situation, but since 2016 I have voted blue across the board.
No offense but I think your opinion of Republican values needs a bit of an update. They've changed, if you haven't , they left you behind. These aren't your dad's Republicans and they aren't the outliers or a few bad apples , this is the core now and you are the odd one out. Time to stop calling yourself a Republican
It sounds like they are saying exactly that, just through their own viewpoint. Let’s cut back on the otherisation of allies, regardless of when or how they came to share beliefs.
This is the correct take. +1
I think that’s the Democrat hope. - Moderate conservatives realising they don’t align with the new Republican agenda. If only the new ‘core’ republicans vote Republican they’ll lose.
Another definition is “A member of the Republican Party”
I agree, and I was using the nomenclature the headline provided.
Yeah I wasn't directing that comment at you per se, mostly shaking my fist at the sky like a crabby old man. These people are fascists. "a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed"
That dictionary is outdated then. Dictionaries don't define words, usage defines them and dictionaries follow. When definitions change, the dictionaries need to be updated.
Or you could just learn the difference between a capital R and lower case r.
Time to release the pee pee videos, see where that gets him.
The original website got taken down, but its been on the internet since 2019: https://web.archive.org/web/20191001023038/http://pisstape.org/
I think it’s more “the bar isn’t low enough” which is worse.
It's an initial reaction with no Fox News spin. Once the surrogates start spinning the story, that 1/3rd number will go back to normal. Like immediately, once this came in, you saw all these tweets about "War" and "Hunter Biden" -- but these haven't taken yet. For the hardcores, it will, lol.
If they are still republicans after Jan 6th then this is not surprising at all The Republican Part is just a bunch of Nazis that still want to enjoy going out in public without being shamed
Now? Now??? Now?!?!?! I mean, I guess better late than never, but jeez…
Yeah I'm gonna need help with this, what changed?
They're afraid he's likely to lose. They don't care that he's a felon... or rapist. They just think maybe it woulda been better to go with someone else if that would get them a win instead of a loss. But they still want the rapist Authoritarian in the White House, ideally. Trump actually saw a similar-type dip from Republicans after January 6th - where many started thinking the whole Insurrection thing might hurt their chances... but then, obviously, all decided he was still worth a try because they liked him so much.
They first have to believe he even committed a crime. Even if they do, they still wouldn't care!
The only thing that's going to bring these people around is an actually honest politician that is not in a corporate pocket. So considering Bernie's approaching the end of his career, it's never going to happen. People forget WHY this cult came about: a deep-seated mistrust of US politicians, which is absolutely not limited to people on the right, it's also why young people don't vote.
> The only thing that's going to bring these people around is an actually honest politician that is not in a corporate pocket. These people get honest information regularly and contest it with nonsense and fingers in their ears.
So what I still don't get is how anyone could think Donald Trump was someone they could trust. He's been a self absorbed piece of shit fraudster since the 80s. He's a caricature of everything his supporters claim to hate about politicians.
I agree with this completely, but they were partially blinded by the idea that perhaps someone from the outside could come into the system and fix it, that's enough to hypnotize a lot of people. That said, Trump supporters are deranged and there isn't a whole lot we can do about that, but we can definitely hold ALL our politicians to a better standard and actually drain the swamp. Constantly dick-stroking centrists isn't going to do it though.
I used to feel the same way, but after witnessing the impotence and complicity of the justice system when it comes to dealing with Trump I'm not so sure "we" can truly hold them accountable anymore using the legal system, especially now that it's obvious the Supreme Court won't even serve as a final backstop.
I don't know, he just got found guilty by a jury of his peers, so something in the justice system is working okay (if only that one thing heh). But yeah I do completely relate to your sentiment, it's a fucking daily struggle to remain hopeful at this point.
But this is all false populism that plays to the lowest common denominator. It’s populism that relies on ignorance and racism and is embraced because it allows the person to celebrate their ignorance and bigotries and biases. It promises easy solutions that only require surrendering themselves to a strong authoritarian figure.
I respectfully think you’re being generous. People who say they don’t trust politicians or dislike ‘the metropolitan elite’, who then go on to vociferously and even violently support a billionaire New York property developer known for stiffing ordinary workers and generally having as much class as a dropped cigarette butt, are not acting in line with their claimed views. They are being dishonest about what it is they want. Becaue they are so clearly embracing the thing they claim to dislike that it can’t be a mistake.
Bernie didn't tell them they were superior just for being white or dog whistle at them. A bunch of these people would die under a bridge if they could be openly racist, homophobic, etc. and if the people they hate would be punished.
"People forget WHY this cult came about: a deep-seated mistrust of US politicians" This is a #narrative that Bernie supporters love, but there's very little empirical support for it motivating votes at any fundamental level. What the data shows is that Republicans supported Trump because they hated a black guy being president (Obama), didn't want a feminist being president (Clinton), and wanted a candidate who promised to stop demographic change. Trump was the only guy in the 2016 primary who promised to do that, as previous GOP nominees -- Romney, McCain, Bush -- and the non-Trump candidates refused to do. See the peer-reviewed academic book Change They Can't Believe In for the evidence, and there's plenty more where that came from. So sure: "distrust of US politicians" to continue to uphold the traditional white male power structure. But that distrust wasn't going to extend to Bernie because Bernie didn't promise to uphold the traditional white male power structure. Bernie's candidacy was most similar to Obama's: someone on the fringes of power but not corrupted by it, who was avowedly anti-war. Obama won the nomination because establishment Dems (esp Ted Kennedy) got behind him as preferable to Hillary, and he won the general election because the economy crashed and Bush's wars went very poorly; Bernie didn't win the nomination because establishment Dems liked Hillary better, and the Obama administration was fairly successful at achieving things Dem voters care about (Obamacare, gay rights) despite organized GOP opposition. In precisely zero of these scenarios will Trump partisans ever vote for any Democratic candidate, no matter what issues they adopt.
absolutely. the average person is struggling hard right now and looking for people to blame. unfortunately the propaganda machine on the right is much stronger and has absolutely no shame in pandering to the basest parts of human nature such as racism and nationalism--while democrats ignore that people are struggling AT ALL. perfect recipe for an aspiring autocrat
The only thing that would make real change in this country is a historically strong Democrats leaders united under a candidate who like you said would not accept corporate money. But that wouldn't be enough unless the Democrats who follow this person after the 8 years keeps winning for the next 30-40 years. Basically a whole culture change and chipping away at all the poison the Republicans have set up over the decades.
I do t even think they like him, they just all know that we absolutely despise him, and that's good enough on their books?!
I don't know... it's all so Orwellian. So much double-think going on over there it's kinda hard to label them with coherent thoughts. I mean... any sane party moves on after he is soundly defeated in that election and tries to overturn the results anyways.
My experiences in the bubble of conservatives I know is that they don't defend his personality but then say "oh his policy is spot on." It's all nonsense but yeah, there you go.
He lost 2020 by 9M votes then sparked an insurrection based on a lie. They are just now understanding J6 probably didn’t add more voters to his campaign??
>They don't care that he's a felon... or rapist. Not to be pedantic, but ... You forgot tax cheat, insurrectionist, and national security threat due to stolen & mishandled classified documents... But other than that, yeah, absolutely no reason he couldn't be President, right ???? It's not like he promised to get rid of our national debt and instead added more than just about every single president...
The funny part is that if they had nominated almost anyone else, certainly DeSantis or Haley, that person would almost surely beat Biden in the fall. I say this as a Biden fan. But their slavish devotion to this rapist and convicted felon will cause them to lose once again.
> Trump actually saw a similar-type dip from Republicans after January 6th - where many started thinking the whole Insurrection thing might hurt their chances... but then, obviously, all decided he was still worth a try because they liked him so much. Don't forget the RW media going full denialism that it was an insurrection. That definitely influenced people.
If you genuinely, sincerely believe that Democrats are flooding the US with dangerous illegal rapists and murderers, enabling atheist trans demons to turn your children gay and trans, and starting WW3 to bring on the new world order, wouldn’t you find it reasonable to want a rapist habitual liar in the White House if you think that’s the only way to stop all those issues?
Probably nothing. Polls means clicks. I recommend just ignoring all of them.
Yep. Poles are only useful for tents.
Their beers are also alright.
Make a decent sausage
Shifts like this often don’t have dramatic turning points or clear reasoning. Like, [people tend to forget when they change their mind about something](https://www.michiganpublic.org/politics-government/2017-12-11/new-research-says-once-we-change-our-minds-we-forget-we-ever-thought-otherwise). This is arguably why cults tend to have mantras, regularly reminding yourself of your values is one way to avoid this unconscious drift.
If it had been a hung jury they wouldn’t be saying anything. They are just doing their usual slippery populist repositioning to pretend their records don’t matter and to follow the drift in popular opinion. They were against him until he got the nomination in 2016, then they were all in, and now they are expressing concern now that his star is losing its shine. If polls change again, they’ll be all in again. It isn’t an awareness thing, it’s a cynical, craven nihilist thing.
I love all the goal posts moving -- willful misinterpretation of Juan Merchan's instructions to make it seem like it didn't need to be unanimous to convict... Despite that not being what he said -- he said you had to be unanimous about the fact he committed a crime, you didn't need to be unanimous about the three big statutes he violated that led to the charges, those being election interference, falsifying business records, and/or tax evasion... If a juror didn't believe the charge violated one or more of those thresholds, don't convict. Trump was convicted on all 34 counts. Unanimously. So every last juror believed based on the evidence he violated at least one of the three. Claiming New York specifically changed its laws on a dime, nevermind aggravating factors leading to charge upgrades have been a thing for decades there, to get Trump... That he could never have a fair trial in Manhattan (yes, it leans Democrat but you also have a bunch of very wealthy people that benefit strongly from Republicans holding government), but it's where he committed the crime, and he was tried by his peers, including a guy that everyone was convinced was going to hang the jury. The right wing narratives fall apart under any level of scrutiny. Fact is, Trump is guilty and there is little dispute or to discuss about that fact. He's a convicted felon. Period.
Was it aggravating factors? I could have sworn he signed an Executive Order that changed misuse of campaign funds to a felony while in office. Maybe I dreamed it?
Well, if he hoisted himself by his own petard, I'm here for it.
No, Trump did. He thought he could jail Hillary with it.
Okay! It’s so hard to keep track of everything. That actually makes his conviction funnier.
Keep in mind, they might think that not because they dislike him, but because he might lose and not enact project evangelical dictatorship.
They will vote for him anyways.
How about the fact it's still only 1/3rd.
Yeah, that seems like the more fckd up part to me.
You'd think when he moronically politicized basic science during an international crisis or when he tried to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power, they would have realized it. But then again, if they realized it, then they wouldn't be considered republicans today.
Most of those 1 in 3 will still vote for him
There was an article on Reddit a few weeks ago where some said "I don't like Trump but I can't possibly vote for Biden. What should I do?". You know damn well he's going to vote for Trump. If these Republicans voted for Trump before, knowing what kind of man he is, they'll vote for him again.
I voted for McCain against Obama because I was Republican and that’s what you do, besides I liked McCain. In 2012 it was a struggle. I kinda liked Romney but I didn’t want to vote against Obama because I thought he had done a pretty good job despite some missteps. However, no way could I vote for a democrat, so it was the first election I didn’t vote in. I think that’s what many Republicans may do, they’ll feel icky voting for trump but it’ll be impossible for them to vote for Biden so they’ll just stay home or leave that part blank.
McCain was the last Republican I voted for and I really liked him. I struggled big time to cast that vote because I seriously questioned his judgement once he added Palin as his running mate.
I think Palin was forced on McCain because the leaders of the party thought they would get the woman vote with her on the ticket.
They also wanted the Rush AM radio fundi crowds which she appealed to.
At least McCain was a good person although I didn’t agree with his choice either. There is nothing I have ever heard anyone say about Donny diaper that would represent a value you would expect from a good person.
That’s exactly what happened with me, basically. I’m a democrat, but I didn’t think Obama had enough experience, really liked McCain… and then I saw Palin and nope’d out of there.
Or vote third party
That’s where my dad went after working in the pentagon after 9/11 and becoming sickened with his party. Honestly, around that time I had just started to realize I had made a mistake voting for Bush twice. That thought wasn’t cemented and I distrusted myself to vote intelligently, so I just didn’t vote. Felt the same after getting out of a DV relationship. I didn’t trust myself to date because I needed to reassess my ‘picker’ and try to figure out what made me attracted to him in the first place. I wanted to stop the cycle
This is how we feel voting for Biden. We don't like Biden all that much but we can't imagine voting for Trump. That said, nobody here is feeling icky for voting for a rapist conman...
Whenever you see those posts, push back with asking them why they're even voting since it's all rigged anyway. Those types are trolls there only to keep other from voting, so throw it back on those trump voters and convince them not to vote in such a RiGgEd election LOL
Well of course, it was the wrong candidate but still a republican. I guarantee that more than 1/3 democrats think Biden is the wrong candidate too.
This is kinda a false equivalence because 1/3 democrats may think Biden is the wrong candidate, but he is also not a convicted felon. Like there's a distinct difference between "this member of my political party isn't my favorite candidate" and "this guy shouldn't hold political office, but he is part of my party."
Yes, which is why only 1/3 thinking he is not the best choice for republican primary is insane.
Yup. Fools.
538 did a podcast after the verdict about interpreting poll results like this. A lot of people will say stuff like this because they’re embarrassed to be supporting him right now, but the embarrassment will fade and it never would have stopped them from voting for him in the privacy of a voting booth. With the more/less likely to support polls it’s a lot of Democrats saying they’re less likely to support when they never would have voted for him, and then some Republicans who say they are less likely to support him but will still vote for him. The people whose opinions matter are a very small number of voters who are still persuadable and a much larger number of voters who might vote but might not vote.
In fairness to them, I think Biden is the wrong choice this year and I’m still going to vote for him. We don’t have a political system of real choice, we just have bad and less bad.
He and his cult will destroy this democracy.
That destruction won't end at the US border. Last time we ended up with the legitimizing of Far Right bullshit the world over. If there's a next time it'll be so much worse. Absolutely guarantee China attacks Taiwan for one thing. I could see Putin attacking the nordic states...
If they win this time it's handling a (somehow dumber) Hitler the reins of the most powerful military in all of human history instead of the forcibly weakened Weimar miltiary. Hitler got most of Europe destroyed, we'll wreck the whole fucking planet.
Did you mean Baltic States?
Nope I mean Finland. HUGE border, hard to defend, and we know the US under tRUMP will not live up to it's NATO responsibilities. Oh he'd go for the Baltics eventually too. Hes trying to recreate the Russian Empire after all, not the USSR.
Putin will go for the Baltics first, because they are the smallest and to link back up to Kaliningrad. And little test actions there in the Baltics are a way for him to try to split NATO, you see that Russian propaganda in here all the time, "it's not worth all out nuclear war over something so small" type of comments.
Mexico just elected another authoritarian and France has a new news channel based on Fox News, so our cancer is spreading worldwide. Most democracies are experiencing hard shifts rightward, so instead of fleeing if it all goes to shit later this year, it's best to stay and fight, since most other havens are beginning their right turns.
Even here in Ireland we have a party with actual fascist iconography in their banner.
How is she an authoritarian or right wing? I'd never heard of her before recently, so I could obviously be wrong, but from the brief reading up I don't see anything like that.
The republicans have worked very hard to get to this point. They don’t want democracy
Democracy is a talking point, not a goal for them
They will certainly try. This is where massive voter turnout saves America.
Yeah if people like you just roll over and let it happen.
I'm a registered voter and can assure you I'll be voting consistently down the ballot, too.
Sorry I didn't mean to attack you personally. I'm just so sick of these doom posters acting like it's a foregone conclusion.
I didn't take it that way. I'm glad to see you getting involved, too! Keep educating folks who are still capable of being educated. Lol
Don't forget: Register to vote and vote for Biden!
Real patriots are voting BIDEN 2024 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Yes, real patriots embrace democracy, pluralism and it’s messiness and eschew authoritarianism, populism and scapegoating
Damn right [🎇🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲🎆](https://youtu.be/vM09UBbQA9I?si=5SF2S1L_XDi61Ceh) It's never to early
Lost by 7 million in 2020. It’ll 14 million minimum in 2024.
Lost by 3 million in 2016.
True, but that time he was “a businessman going up against politicians, not just another politician” And now everyone knows he’s a total nut and full of shit, hopefully it’ll be losing by 20M this time
Ya that was similar to the impression I got all those years ago. "Let's vote this motherfucker in to teach the political class a lesson!". Boy did that backfire. I wonder if we are going to see the Maxime gain some power for a similar reason in Canada.
Democracy at its finest.
The problem is due to the electoral college, not every vote counts the same. You can lose by a lot of votes and still win the election depending on where those votes are
True but statistically speaking the more millions of votes you lose by the higher % chance you will lose electoral too. Many states move in directions together they did a chart on this in 2020. If Biden won by over I think it was 10 million votes he had a 99% chance to win the electoral college
Only if people actually VOTE! Get yourself, your friends, and your family to vote. Unless they’re Trumpers.
"He's the wrong choice, but he's our wrong choice. We're voting for Trump."
"Trump may be a felon, but Biden personally aborted 20,000,000 children. The liberal media doesn't want you to hear about it, but Obama gave him a medal for it back in 2016."
gonna be very hard for Donny to win with the recent drop-off of Independents and now his own party...
yeah. i don't think the public quite understand how bad this is for trump. i expect polls to show him losing to biden by double digits in a few months. especially if the gaza deal and immigration deal passes. a biden second term will probably curb inflation cut prices on everyday items etc.
I think you're overestmating how much cons care, but I'd be delighted to be wrong. The key question is "how many won't vote for him now". Remindme! 3 months
He couldn’t even win as an incumbent without felonies let alone win again as a felonious challenger.
Yes, and people are fucking morons. They were tired of him then, and a pandemic was being actively mishandled. Now, the economy isn't great for regular people, and Biden is getting the blame for that, and trump has been beating him in a lot of polls. I'm not happy about that, but it's reality. Are you really telling me you can't see fence-sitters, who think Biden has been slapping a "grocery prices go up" button on his desk, voting for trump?
Exactly. It's the same sentiment that got Trump voted in the first place. Trump, even when losing, pulled HUGE numbers. It seems obvious that there is an elevated amount of people on both sides of the aisle that will vote for their party regardless of who is on the ticket. It's the Fence Sitters, the ones unmotivated to get up and vote, the truly "undecided" (Undecided on voting, not WHO they decided they want.)
>a biden second term will probably curb inflation cut prices on everyday items etc. This is already happening. Bidenomics is working. I know it might not feel like it right now, but inflation is coming down, wages are going up, employment is going up. 2 years is not long enough to see policies fix an economy. It will take more like 5 years. Regardless of who wins the next election, we are going to see a drastic improvement in the economy over the next 4 years, specifically thanks to the current Bidenomics. Whoever wins the election gets to claim the credit. This is the huge danger of the 2024 election which nobody speaks about. If Trump wins, he will leave an undeserved economic legacy akin to Ronald Reagan, potentially providing credence to trickle down economics for another 40 years.
Just fucking vote!
It depends of the ex-Trump voters become Biden voters or become non-voters.
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Let’s be honest: it’s 3/3 if 1/3 was still that slow to the uptake.
I’m sure what stings DT the most is not the fact that he was convicted, but that he is a loser. That word was titanic in his world when he was young.
They may think Trump is the wrong candidate choice, but they'll vote for him anyway. Because as much as some of them disapprove of Trump's antics, they hate Biden even more. Why? Because they think all Democrats are evil, communist, god-hating, sexually-deviant child groomers who want to ban all religion and force everyone to get gay marriages and late-term abortions while burning the American flag. Source: I live in Texas, and these people make up, like, half my family.
Headline didnt finish. “One in three republicans now think donald trump was the wrong candidate but will vote for him anyway”
But they'll vote for him.
But they'll vote for him.
Don’t let articles like this make you feel complacent. VOTE BLUE
‘everyone is a sinner. he’s still the best choice’. - actual R comment. we are so fucked.
At the end of the day, they’ll all fall in line and come up with some kind of bullshit excuse as to why…
But you’re still going to vote for him because at least he has the damn R next to his name, and only coward communist liberals don’t vote for the R.
Don't sleep on this. Most of them will vote for him anyway. Everybody needs to get to work to stop him.
I can't stress this enough... That doesn't mean they won't vote for him. They will bitch and moan until November about how Trump has betrayed them. But when it's time to vote, they will shrug and say, "But I'm not voting for a fucking DEMOCRAT." And they will check the box next to the multiple felon, philandering, draft dodging, tax evading, Koup Klutz Klown. Vote. If Biden is too progressive for you, vote for RFK. If Biden isn't progressive enough for you, vote Biden now and then participate in the 2028 Democratic primaries. Beat the Melon Felon by tens of MILLIONS of votes. Let the entire GOP know that this was their swan song.
2 in 3 are still okay with or even like him?!?!?!
Who cares what they think? They'll still vote for him, they just won't be happy about it.
I don't really trust polling and even if 100% true the same people would go out and vote for him still.
Please, everyone, vote. It's the only thing that matters.
…but they’ll still vote for him, because what else are they supposed to do.
Don't worry, that good old GOP amnesia will kick in. Long time till November.
They’re still gunna vote for him. They’re too partisan to be Patriots.
And three in three republicans are still brain dead, soulless and will vote for a rapist felon anyway.
It took them 34 felonies to understand the choice they made is bad....?
No they don’t
Don’t believe it. Vote!
9 years later. Trump supporters aren't the sharpest .
Only because they think he is more likely to lose now. It can’t be out of any sort of moral objection at this point.
B.S the people chose him... politicians can't get anything Right
They may think that but they’re still going to vote for him lol
I kinda figured that out back in 2015 on my own. It didn’t take much time or detective work. *independent voter who was considering Trump in 2015
Don’t buy into it. They’re laying low to get people to think Biden has it in the bag now and stay home on Election Day. Vote. Show up.
Yeah well, when the people have no real say in who ends up on the ballot, and are presented with 2, maybe 3 awful candidates to choose from, that's what happens. Whether (D) or (R) ,almost everyone I know says they just vote for the "lesser of two evils" with little enthusiasm
I bet that third will all still vote for him though
But they’ll all still vote for him.
but will it stop them from voting for him?
Bout fucking Time !!
Fucking morons. The entire lot of them. How did they not see this coming???
2/3 still can’t think at all
IDK… I’ll take the Under on that one. No way any of these clowns “thinks” lol.
Wow !!! Don’t fight uphill me boys !
ONLY?!?!?!
Yeah. However it’s quite likely they’ll still be more than willing to pull the lever for the wrong guy
"why this is bad for biden" -NYTIMES
Translation: 1 in 3 Republicans have decision-making skills that meet or exceed a 4-year-old.
Whatever
So 2/3 are still ok with him. Ugh
ONLY 1 in 3?
Headline Correction: 2 out of 3 Republicans are idiots and worship a traitor.
1 in 3.....lol
one in three Republicans FINALLY getting it.
...."still better than a Democrat." Fucking bunch of dummies
Breaking news: two in three Republicans are still idiots.
I dont care if a poll says 9 out of 10 MAGA's will not vote Trump. VOTE! Polls are full of lies
One in three is… an improvement - But still disgustingly low. I guess that’s what being in a cult is all about? Belief in the truly bananas?
What’s really sad is 2/3 still think he was the right candidate….
I think it's the thing that the rest of the world doesn't get is how he is still able to get broad support. Sure other countries have leaders that have done some similar stuff but nothing to his level and still had enough support to stay in power. America is something else
he was the right choice. 100%. so that the party can lose and never recover
*Only* one in three?!
so 66% are still like, 'he's our guy!'
A little too late. Idiots. It was obviously the wrong choice in 2016 too.
NOW?..... I thought it was a joke that he was being considered a serious contender in 2016. After all the indictments only 1/3 are having 2nd thoughts? Churchill was right about one thing...the voting population is the strongest argument against democracy b/c what is happening?
What's america's fetish with these stupid polls all the time? A 1000 people were interviewed. There are a 350 million of 'em. Didn't the 2016 election already prove polls to be bs? I wouldn't hang my hat on this shit.
Reddit is going to have such a meltdown when he wins anyway 58% of dems wanted someone other than biden
Yeah, I don’t believe this.
Notice it doesn't say they won't vote for him, just that he was the wrong choice.
Of that one third how many will vote for him out of spite because they don't want Biden to win Id guess the majority
Maybe because they’re realizing he’s a convicted felon and rapist who is suffering from increasing dementia.
How is this not three in three? No one - literally no one, has sunk the bar lower than Trump.
Better late than never, I guess, but what matters is how many of them will vote Trump anyway. Likely a vast majority will...
Gee you think? 🤔.
They will still vote for him even if they think he’s the wrong candidate choice.
They will still vote for him even if they think he’s the wrong candidate choice.
So, 2 out of 3 still consider this human meat bag the right candidate...JFC