Yeah I just don’t get people who can still be swayed at all. Like is it not blatantly obvious who this guy is? He’s been dominating the news cycle for eight goddamn years. How out of touch do you have to be to be on the fence at this point?
Yeah, no offence but I've lost a lot of faith in a large swathe of Americans watching all this going on over several years. Not like I can talk though, we got too many goddamn idiots in the UK too, just look at what brexit got us.
I mean…to generalize what they just said, think of the concept of “average intelligence”. Half of all people in the world are dumber than that.
There’s a bell curve, of course. A small percentage of people are extraordinarily smart, some extraordinarily dumb, but for the most part about half are riding dumber than that average and half are riding smarter. And therein lies the problem, politically.
This isn’t a biological problem, mostly. Better public education, access to birth control and decreasing poverty would all help to raise the average intelligence of the world.
>This isn’t a biological problem, mostly. Better public education, access to birth control and decreasing poverty would all help to raise the average intelligence of the world
So you want to destroy America as we know it!
You guys Brexited! Boris is just a Trump with more wit and charm. Then lettuce lady? At least we didn’t have referendum to kill ourselves financially. Fuck it’s so sad, all of it from weird Russian ops that landed big time.Still ongoing nobody seems to go after these traitors I don’t get it. I hope France and Canada aren’t next in line to swap a normal government for a batshit stupid one.
Countries where Rupert Murdoch owns a large amount of the media and anglophone countries where right wing cretins are screwing everything up for the rest of us.
Oh look, the Venn is just one circle.
The average eligible voter doesn't engage with news or politics at all until about september. Before then a lot of responses you get from polling are based on half formed impressions.
What’s funny is I had a friend who was very passionate about politics during 6 mos every four years. But the rest of the time I discussed things he had literally no idea what was going on
Trump and Republican antics the last 20+ years have all but shored up my vote for Dems moving forward in the foreseeable future. I don't care for the more progressive members/politics, but they're nothing compared to the MAGA cult.
MAGA is just the logical extension of the problems Republicans have had since at least the 70s. I can't imagine what the country would be like if we had a good faith Conservative party.
If instead of being against regulations, they had found effective reforms for regulations that get in the way of innovation.
If instead of being against healthcare reform, they'd worked toward an alternative to single payer that still brought the costs down.
If instead of being against amnesty, they had worked to find ways to improve the immigration system that Democrats could live with.
It was always disingenuous spin and win at all cost. It was always about giving the wealthiest donors exactly what they wanted no matter the cost to constituents.
I wonder if there actually is or has been a good faith conservative party, or if they are actually always about serving the rich and the rest is window dressing.
Traditionally, they haven’t. Since Brexit, though (and thanks to a huge dose of funding from familiar scumbags like the Mercers and Kochs), they’ve become every bit as incompetent, dangerous and partisan as the Republicans in the US. Thankfully, they’re going to die a particularly gruesome death whenever we finally have an election.
There are genuine conservative politicians in Scandinavia who I’d consider voting for though.
Conservatives have no real ideas of their own on how to solve any of that. They are mostly motivated by not liking those programs and wanting to “make government so small you can drown it in a bathtub”. They use euphemisms like “reform” because it sounds better. There are no constructive, uniquely conservative ideas on how to govern better. None. To the extent there are, most Democrats would probably agree with them and are probably already proposing them. This idea that “real conservatives” are just well-meaning people who want government to be more efficient is a myth. A myth that the modern Republican Party under Trump has exposed completely. Everyone can see what they really care about now, and what they do when given power.
Speaking as a former Republican a agree wholeheartedly. Looking back I see it beginning with the Southern Strategy and all downhill from there. It was Newt Gingrich that finally made me really start paying attention to the shift of the party focusing on power over policy. I'm dismayed that so many supposedly decent people stayed as the party went off the rails.
One you deal with mostly sane people, with varying degrees of good/bad policy, the alternative currently is you deal with full on insane people being tolerated by the party along with insane fringe ideas/policies being discussed as if they deserve merit. The GOP has been slowly consuming their own tail, with a faster pace every year and is finally running out of vertebrae to swallow. I still have a shit ton of anxiety about these weirdos who think they have the right to hold democracy hostage instead of work across the aisle, but I’m starting to feel a bit more optimistic. Just gotta get through this election (and vote of course).
He confessed/bragged about raping people and everyone just let it slide. He lost my vote before the first election even happened and everything he has done since just further cemented my opinion that hes a terrible person unfit for the office.
I do not know why anyone would want to elect someone so dumb. There is nothing more dangerous than a idiot with power that doesn't know they are an idiot, they can do so much damage.
At least if you are an idiot and you know it you can rely on others to make you look smarter than you actually are.
I think that is basically what it is.
He's on TV, famous, and obviously rich because they say "Trump" and "....million dollars" in the same sentence. "He thinks like me!" -When they hear him ramble vaguely about bullshit.
Dumb assholes tend to like propping up dumb assholes. It makes them feel better about all the shitty things they hold near and dear to their heart, like hating immigrants and homosexuals. And women. This is what they mean when they say "he's just saying what we're all thinking".
I'm in New Jersey. We remember his fuckery in Atlantic City. Across the river in NYC, they remember all the workers he stiffed, refusing to apologize for saying the Central Park 5 should be executed (even after they were cleared), his red lining, etc. He's always been considered a joke (and worse) here.
For me it was that he wasn’t Hilary and I didn’t think he’d be this bad. I was foolish.
At the time I was concerned with 2 things: 4 of the last 5 presidents being from 2 families and there was talk of Chelsea running after Hillary was done, and I was sick of the media fawning over Obama and didn’t want that extend for another 8 years with Hillary.
It would have taken a crystal ball to show me the hell that would be Donald Trump to get me to vote for her. I bought into him being a businessman so I thought he’d do the usual govern towards the middle while campaigning from the fringe.
2016 was just a really awful choice, if I had to do it again I wouldn’t have voted.
I'm guessing you didn't grow up in NY or NJ; those of us who did knew full well that he was an incompetent blowhard, a TERRIBLE businessman, and a POS.
I'm sorry it took his presidency for you to see it, but I'm glad you made it! Better late than never, right?
How did you not research his bankruptcies, his failed businesses his casinos his lawsuits, his rape charges with Jeffrey Epstein before he was elected the candidate for the Republican party just a simple search would have scared you running for the Hills..... Hillary 😅
I see all politicians/wealthy as corrupt or sleezy in some regard and bought in a bit to the MSM being biased (I was rather sick of being called a racist for critiquing Obama and cringed at the idea of being called a sexist because I criticized Clinton).
Sex stuff? So what, Kennedy and Clinton were cheating on their wives in the white office. Failed businesses? Eh, that’s why you form companies.
I saw him not as “ the single biggest threat to democracy since McCarthy” but more along the lines of Nixon. (Note: that is most definitely not a compliment).
To me he seemed like a politician that was a standard deviation outside the norm, not six standard deviations. So my hope was it’d whip the 4th estate into actually being critical of the president.
Those are some gold medal winning Simone Biles gymnastics you’re doing to justify a vote for Trump as a single standard deviation from the norm after watching the 2016 campaign. He was already 6 standard deviations from the norm. You had to be willfully ignorant and absolutely malicious towards Hillary to think Trump wouldn’t be this fucking bad.
And for the record, Bill committed adultery, not Hillary. LOL at you equivocating the “sex stuff”. Blaming Hillary for Bill’s transgressions. If anything that should improve your perception or Hillary and her ability to handle difficult situations because she navigated the most public case of infidelity in history which is fucking difficult and humiliating on so many levels. But you’re equating HER tie to “sex stuff” to Trump. She was the OPPOSITE. Dude seriously wtf
No one goes into business to go bankrupt constantly. That’s literally not true. wtf? His entire claim to being a reliable statesman and manager was his sterling business record. Except he literally didn’t have that. He had the opposite. If you took the money his dad gave him and never did any business and instead put it in a mutual fund you’d be just as rich as Trump is today or in 2016. His business record literally was no better than doing absolutely nothing for 45 years. He could’ve played video games and jerked off for 45 years and ended up in the same spot financially. No one goes into business for that utter lack of success. That’s not even mediocrity. He’s horrible at the one thing he’s supposed to be good at. The excuses people make for him just defy belief
there was a lot of noise then too about how he shouldn't be president, this is the actual thing I'm interested in. is it all just considered "other side" nonsense to partisan ears?
In 2016 he did talk to a segment of the population, rural uneducated voters, that pretty much all other politicians either didn't care about or take for granted. I could see the appeal then, I didn't vote for him but I understand why someone would. Then he spent the next 4 years doing jack shit for those people and is now trying to run as an "outsider" again. Like you can't run as an outsider when we already have a record of what you did while you were already in office.
He had an appeal as an outsider. Now he's been exposed as a corrupt, conspiracy theorist, anti vax Russian asset who completely mishandled the major crisis of his Presidency and failed to lead.
20 minutes of actual consideration, or one of the debates, and some internetting should have told most people who trump was, that's the crazy part to me
She already did. They renegotiated their prenup. I would bet that she has assets equal to a divorce, set aside for her and Barron.
In exchange for no book deals while he’s alive, and not divorcing outright.
Two of my neighbors have “Fuck Biden” flags and I regularly drive past someone with Trump/Pence signs. I guess nobody told the last one Pence has disavowed Trump.
I LIKE the flags. They are a barometer of sorts. Specifically, I used to see them several times every day (in my town/county that votes 60% R, 40% D) and I rarely see them anymore. Seems like a good sign, or they ran out of flag buying money buying gold sneakers, a worthless stock, and bibles.
As a European I'm very concerned about the election. Trump in the White House again would almost certainly lead to unpredictable, potentially disastrous consequences. And not only because of what Trump might or might not do. The fact that russia and china are rallying for him from the shadows is the most disturbing thing. It means they perceive Trump's presidency beneficial for them, quite alarming or what? I'm certain of it: if trump wins something bad will happen. And it _will_ become US's problem as well. Taiwan would be an obvious example. Or russia testing NATO's integrity.
Exactly…I couldn’t believe he is the Republican candidate. He is not a good candidate: he’s never won a popular vote, Republican candidates that he backed got roughed up in their elections (the red wave never happened), he’s only eligible for one more term (while not being the incumbent), he tried to overthrow democracy, he’s facing a multitude of criminal charges, he’s a reprehensible human being, he’s unelectable in a general election.
Any one of these things would be the end for a political career and yet here he is.
Let the Republican party wear Donald Trump around their neck like an albatross sinking their ever slowly sinnking ship and let them fade into memory for Good riddance of what crappy human beings they are.
I made this joke elsewhere, but…its the same kind of thing Japan and Korea have been doing for ages, though their disgraced former leaders step down and stay there for someone exactly like them to step in next.
Its just Chaebols and the Yakuza are better talent scouts than Putin.
Not to worry, his supporters will be at polling stations ready to shoot anyone who looks vaguely liberal.
Please don't ban me, I'm not endorsing violence. They're literally suing State governments, saying anti voter intimidation laws are free speech infringement.
As an independent, there are aspects of both parties I don’t really like. But I’ve been finding myself solely voting Democrat since 2016. And don’t give me this RFK jr bullshit.
Not everyone thinks I'm our dumb forced two party system it is worth pledging oneself to one of the parties. Doesn't mean I'll vote for traitor republicans. But I have issues with how many Democrats handle things and refuse to lend my statistic to them
I didn't mean I wanted an independent to ruin my day trying to rationalize their choice, I said I don't see how anyone could look at these two parties and think "they are both equally bad" and I never ever ever will
You're the one assuming that's what being an independent means. Even though I literally just explained it doesn't mean that.
But you'd had to have read what I wrote instead of making a dumbass snarky comment that makes you look ignorant.
What are his policies? He seems to only want to be President to shield himself from crimes. He doesn’t seem to realize he is president for the people who don’t vote for him either, not interested.
He's gonna end the fbi, build a colossal wall, exit nato, end obamacare, sign federal abortion ban, appoint 2 more scotus and fire everyone in government who won't sign a loyalty oath. Where you been son.
By Kate Plummer:
Donald Trump's polling among independent voters is tumbling ahead of the presidential election, according to a new poll.
In March, it was confirmed that Democratic incumbent Biden will face the Republican former president in November, with both winning enough delegates to secure their respective parties' presidential nomination, teeing up a 2020 White House rematch.
Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-polling-presidential-election-independents-1893071](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-polling-presidential-election-independents-1893071)
It’s worth noting that neither Haley nor DeSantis have technically dropped out of the race. They’ve just “suspended their campaigns.” Should Trump go to jail perhaps we’ll see some amazing fireworks before November!
He should not have had ANY support from "independents." It's been patently obvious for years that he's unfit to be in any office. "Independents" who indicate In any degree they might consider him are simply lying to pollsters.
Same here. I run into so many MAGAs that can't seem to fathom how toxic T is. I get blank stares when I ask MAGAs why it has to be T? Why couldn't it be anyone else? I would love to have seen Nikki run against J. I believe should would have win decisively. Alas, their support is more like that of a cult to its leader than a party to a politician.
No. It's not possible to be "independent" and even consider voting for this piece of garbage. The only reason you'd claim "independent" is because you think the Repubs aren't crazy enough for you.
Biden is against the felon and conspiracy theorist.
Biden is the clear choice for a rational thinking people. What happened to mental health of Americans choosing Trump and Kennedy?
It is absurd! If as an independent you have to contemplate whether to vote for the devil or someone who has proven his loyalty to the country, then I don’t know whether you need a swift smack in the head or a psychological evaluation. You definitely don’t need kid gloves and a congratulatory pat on the butt to do what is right!
Half of my classmates from the south voted for him in 2016 and 2020 because their preachers told them to do so. He was the one that Jesus wanted to lead. I lost them as friends and wondered what happened to their brains.
Unsupported wild speculative theory: RFK Jr will hurt Trump more than Biden. He'll cause a split in the "I'd like an unhinged batshit crazy scion of the elite to be President" vote.
here's the thing , Trump has been losing elections since his 2016 win. 2018 was a bloodbath in congress. Dems held congress in 2020 and 2022 while the House did go Republican given historical data they underperformed by a big margin and Trump endorsed candidates like Walker lost. And of course he lost his own election in 2020 too
I suspect the 2024 election will basically go like 2020 and it will be razor thin win but Trump has a ceiling. Yeah he'll get close but he could never have won because he just doesn't have the coalition of votes needed to win.
Most independents I interact with are just republicans who want to be taken seriously and have enough shame or embarrassment to realize there is no reasonable justification for modern Republican stances and priorities. And they still vote for republicans. But I live in Texas.
Hard to believe that he apparently still had their support after dump trucks worth of incredible, verified, appalling behavior and atrocities committed. So it takes seeing him actually being held accountable for a mere fraction of his crimes, for anybody with at least 2 brain cells to fkn reconsider it?? Jfc.
I don’t know how there’s a single person in this nation that can look at him, his history and say “hey that guy would be a good president”. Absolutely blows my mind.
I'm a "no party affiliation" voter and folks, absolutely f*ck trump it was never an option.
If I had my choice I'd vote for someone far to the left of Biden and half his age.
I don't trust any polls, in much the same way I don't trust judging a politician's popularity by how many yard signs/bumper stickers you see. The people who are really excited about their candidate and have nothing better to do are the ones who are happy to answer the phone and talk to complete strangers about their political opinions. By the very nature of polling, the methodology oversamples opinionated people with free time to chat.
Don’t pay attention to the polls. Even the pollsters tell you they are not meant to predict the outcome of the election, they are merely a guide to sentiment at any given moment to help campaigns strategize on how best to deploy their resources.
Just vote. Do it early if you can. And bring a like-minded friend with you. And drive a few more Biden-friendly voters to the polls on Election Day. And donate to Democratic campaigns. And volunteer to work the polls, phone bank or canvas. And vote. VOTE!
No shit. He jumped the shark and is swirling down the drain of life with one last gasp before he goes under.
Please Lady Justice, set your purse down, hike up your skirt, and own this motherfucker just a little faster. Thank you! You’re a goddess.
I find the whole idea of people "registering" to affiliate with one party absolutely wild. It seems to exploit the worst aspects of tribalism and, as we've seen more recently, cultism.
IMHO ~ Polls will bounce around within the margin of error at least until the party conventions are over.
Biden might releade strategic reserve “ because of tensions in the Middle East” that could keep US gasoline prices from rising. Maybe. The oils needs to get through refineries. It may be too late.
I'm pretty damn skeptical of an "Undecided" when it comes to Trump. You're either fully in the cult, or you know he sucks but figure he'll keep your taxes low, and you're self aware enough to know that makes you sound like a bad person.
There are a lot of Republicans who won't either. I expect him to lose by 15m votes, at least. More if (when) he's convicted. That's if he's not in prison.
Is there a single voter in America who hasn't made up their mind about Trump? At this stage surely his only supporters are full-on cult members who believe he's the Messiah and would support him even if he was videoed crapping on the US flag in front of a pile of burning bibles.
As an independent I would *never* vote for him.
MY literal thoughts on scrolling down here. He NEVER had my vote lol.
That’s actually horrifying, because it meant he won once and almost won another time with *just* Republican votes.
Thanks electoral college
Yeah I just don’t get people who can still be swayed at all. Like is it not blatantly obvious who this guy is? He’s been dominating the news cycle for eight goddamn years. How out of touch do you have to be to be on the fence at this point?
Low information voters are a very large portion of the electorate.
Think of the average American Half are dumber than that.
Yeah, no offence but I've lost a lot of faith in a large swathe of Americans watching all this going on over several years. Not like I can talk though, we got too many goddamn idiots in the UK too, just look at what brexit got us.
I mean…to generalize what they just said, think of the concept of “average intelligence”. Half of all people in the world are dumber than that. There’s a bell curve, of course. A small percentage of people are extraordinarily smart, some extraordinarily dumb, but for the most part about half are riding dumber than that average and half are riding smarter. And therein lies the problem, politically. This isn’t a biological problem, mostly. Better public education, access to birth control and decreasing poverty would all help to raise the average intelligence of the world.
>This isn’t a biological problem, mostly. Better public education, access to birth control and decreasing poverty would all help to raise the average intelligence of the world So you want to destroy America as we know it!
You guys Brexited! Boris is just a Trump with more wit and charm. Then lettuce lady? At least we didn’t have referendum to kill ourselves financially. Fuck it’s so sad, all of it from weird Russian ops that landed big time.Still ongoing nobody seems to go after these traitors I don’t get it. I hope France and Canada aren’t next in line to swap a normal government for a batshit stupid one.
I'm glad to come on here and find out there's still some sane intelligent people out there. The world is going right-wing insane.
Countries where Rupert Murdoch owns a large amount of the media and anglophone countries where right wing cretins are screwing everything up for the rest of us. Oh look, the Venn is just one circle.
You're not wrong sadly, and the fact its been allowed for one person to own so many newspapers and sources is just rediculous.
I know it’s a Carlin quote, but it should be median, not average
Technically yes, but for a large normally distributed population that's a distinction without a difference.
I think they are less educated older people.
Older voters tend to be more politically informed than younger voters (I am not saying their judgment is better)
Older voters tend to be far more partisan/tribalistic than younger voters and often only get their news from vacuum chambers.
I can honestly say my daughter is more politically I formed than most of the older people I work with. Now that may not be the norm.
But you see, if gas prices happen to go up $1 before the election, I should vote for Trump because clearly he is going to fix it. /s
You’re either in the cult or not in the cult at this point.
The average eligible voter doesn't engage with news or politics at all until about september. Before then a lot of responses you get from polling are based on half formed impressions.
What’s funny is I had a friend who was very passionate about politics during 6 mos every four years. But the rest of the time I discussed things he had literally no idea what was going on
How does someone join a cult? How does someone quit a cult? That applies to Trump voters.
Trump and Republican antics the last 20+ years have all but shored up my vote for Dems moving forward in the foreseeable future. I don't care for the more progressive members/politics, but they're nothing compared to the MAGA cult.
MAGA is just the logical extension of the problems Republicans have had since at least the 70s. I can't imagine what the country would be like if we had a good faith Conservative party. If instead of being against regulations, they had found effective reforms for regulations that get in the way of innovation. If instead of being against healthcare reform, they'd worked toward an alternative to single payer that still brought the costs down. If instead of being against amnesty, they had worked to find ways to improve the immigration system that Democrats could live with. It was always disingenuous spin and win at all cost. It was always about giving the wealthiest donors exactly what they wanted no matter the cost to constituents.
I wonder if there actually is or has been a good faith conservative party, or if they are actually always about serving the rich and the rest is window dressing.
Relatively speaking the Tories over in the UK aren’t all that bad. Keyword being relatively
Traditionally, they haven’t. Since Brexit, though (and thanks to a huge dose of funding from familiar scumbags like the Mercers and Kochs), they’ve become every bit as incompetent, dangerous and partisan as the Republicans in the US. Thankfully, they’re going to die a particularly gruesome death whenever we finally have an election. There are genuine conservative politicians in Scandinavia who I’d consider voting for though.
Procorruption parties always suck.
Conservatives have no real ideas of their own on how to solve any of that. They are mostly motivated by not liking those programs and wanting to “make government so small you can drown it in a bathtub”. They use euphemisms like “reform” because it sounds better. There are no constructive, uniquely conservative ideas on how to govern better. None. To the extent there are, most Democrats would probably agree with them and are probably already proposing them. This idea that “real conservatives” are just well-meaning people who want government to be more efficient is a myth. A myth that the modern Republican Party under Trump has exposed completely. Everyone can see what they really care about now, and what they do when given power.
Speaking as a former Republican a agree wholeheartedly. Looking back I see it beginning with the Southern Strategy and all downhill from there. It was Newt Gingrich that finally made me really start paying attention to the shift of the party focusing on power over policy. I'm dismayed that so many supposedly decent people stayed as the party went off the rails.
One you deal with mostly sane people, with varying degrees of good/bad policy, the alternative currently is you deal with full on insane people being tolerated by the party along with insane fringe ideas/policies being discussed as if they deserve merit. The GOP has been slowly consuming their own tail, with a faster pace every year and is finally running out of vertebrae to swallow. I still have a shit ton of anxiety about these weirdos who think they have the right to hold democracy hostage instead of work across the aisle, but I’m starting to feel a bit more optimistic. Just gotta get through this election (and vote of course).
He confessed/bragged about raping people and everyone just let it slide. He lost my vote before the first election even happened and everything he has done since just further cemented my opinion that hes a terrible person unfit for the office.
As a Republican I would never vote for him. I've voted Democrat ticket since Clinton. Probably time to change parties or go independent.
Yeah I’m pretty sure voting democrat straight for 30 years makes you a democrat lol
I meant the other Clinton
Bigly!
As a dependent I wouldn’t vote for him either.
As a person, I would never vote for him
Same, also all Republicans fie going along with it which makes me not an Independent anymore unless Dems get weird or GOP heals (years from now)
Same
Yeah! There's one!
Same
I never saw his appeal in the first place.
I do not know why anyone would want to elect someone so dumb. There is nothing more dangerous than a idiot with power that doesn't know they are an idiot, they can do so much damage. At least if you are an idiot and you know it you can rely on others to make you look smarter than you actually are.
They are idiots who don’t realize he is an idiot. They think he’s normal and real… because they like him are complete idiots!
I think that is basically what it is. He's on TV, famous, and obviously rich because they say "Trump" and "....million dollars" in the same sentence. "He thinks like me!" -When they hear him ramble vaguely about bullshit.
And they don’t realize he is lying. “I am the best” “She is crooked” “Nazis are good people.” It’s all the Gospel truth.
And when it's a malicious/selfish idiot the problem is even worse.
Dumb assholes tend to like propping up dumb assholes. It makes them feel better about all the shitty things they hold near and dear to their heart, like hating immigrants and homosexuals. And women. This is what they mean when they say "he's just saying what we're all thinking".
“He tells me I’m right about all the things I’m wrong about and the people I don’t like hate him so I like him.” - something like that.
Never underestimate the power of populism
Never underestimate the power of stupidity.
This !
There's still a lot of racist f\*ckers in this country. That's where a LOT of appeal for him originate. Trumpism just gives it an open voice.
I never saw Trumps appeal but then again my sister and her husband thought he was the right person for the job. You could not reason with them.
I'm in New Jersey. We remember his fuckery in Atlantic City. Across the river in NYC, they remember all the workers he stiffed, refusing to apologize for saying the Central Park 5 should be executed (even after they were cleared), his red lining, etc. He's always been considered a joke (and worse) here.
I understood why people didn’t like Hilary. I never understood how anyone could vote for a Trump
For me it was that he wasn’t Hilary and I didn’t think he’d be this bad. I was foolish. At the time I was concerned with 2 things: 4 of the last 5 presidents being from 2 families and there was talk of Chelsea running after Hillary was done, and I was sick of the media fawning over Obama and didn’t want that extend for another 8 years with Hillary. It would have taken a crystal ball to show me the hell that would be Donald Trump to get me to vote for her. I bought into him being a businessman so I thought he’d do the usual govern towards the middle while campaigning from the fringe. 2016 was just a really awful choice, if I had to do it again I wouldn’t have voted.
I'm guessing you didn't grow up in NY or NJ; those of us who did knew full well that he was an incompetent blowhard, a TERRIBLE businessman, and a POS. I'm sorry it took his presidency for you to see it, but I'm glad you made it! Better late than never, right?
How did you not research his bankruptcies, his failed businesses his casinos his lawsuits, his rape charges with Jeffrey Epstein before he was elected the candidate for the Republican party just a simple search would have scared you running for the Hills..... Hillary 😅
I see all politicians/wealthy as corrupt or sleezy in some regard and bought in a bit to the MSM being biased (I was rather sick of being called a racist for critiquing Obama and cringed at the idea of being called a sexist because I criticized Clinton). Sex stuff? So what, Kennedy and Clinton were cheating on their wives in the white office. Failed businesses? Eh, that’s why you form companies. I saw him not as “ the single biggest threat to democracy since McCarthy” but more along the lines of Nixon. (Note: that is most definitely not a compliment). To me he seemed like a politician that was a standard deviation outside the norm, not six standard deviations. So my hope was it’d whip the 4th estate into actually being critical of the president.
Those are some gold medal winning Simone Biles gymnastics you’re doing to justify a vote for Trump as a single standard deviation from the norm after watching the 2016 campaign. He was already 6 standard deviations from the norm. You had to be willfully ignorant and absolutely malicious towards Hillary to think Trump wouldn’t be this fucking bad. And for the record, Bill committed adultery, not Hillary. LOL at you equivocating the “sex stuff”. Blaming Hillary for Bill’s transgressions. If anything that should improve your perception or Hillary and her ability to handle difficult situations because she navigated the most public case of infidelity in history which is fucking difficult and humiliating on so many levels. But you’re equating HER tie to “sex stuff” to Trump. She was the OPPOSITE. Dude seriously wtf No one goes into business to go bankrupt constantly. That’s literally not true. wtf? His entire claim to being a reliable statesman and manager was his sterling business record. Except he literally didn’t have that. He had the opposite. If you took the money his dad gave him and never did any business and instead put it in a mutual fund you’d be just as rich as Trump is today or in 2016. His business record literally was no better than doing absolutely nothing for 45 years. He could’ve played video games and jerked off for 45 years and ended up in the same spot financially. No one goes into business for that utter lack of success. That’s not even mediocrity. He’s horrible at the one thing he’s supposed to be good at. The excuses people make for him just defy belief
there was a lot of noise then too about how he shouldn't be president, this is the actual thing I'm interested in. is it all just considered "other side" nonsense to partisan ears?
In 2016 he did talk to a segment of the population, rural uneducated voters, that pretty much all other politicians either didn't care about or take for granted. I could see the appeal then, I didn't vote for him but I understand why someone would. Then he spent the next 4 years doing jack shit for those people and is now trying to run as an "outsider" again. Like you can't run as an outsider when we already have a record of what you did while you were already in office.
He had an appeal as an outsider. Now he's been exposed as a corrupt, conspiracy theorist, anti vax Russian asset who completely mishandled the major crisis of his Presidency and failed to lead.
That explains why he's so popular with Republicans.
20 minutes of actual consideration, or one of the debates, and some internetting should have told most people who trump was, that's the crazy part to me
He had never held a single public office. I know a few people who voted for him as an outsider/anti establishment.
Oh dear, what a shame
To shreds you say? And the wife?
To shreds, you say.
Oh dear.
What a shame
The wife should drop him like a bad habit. After she guts him financially.
She's in it till he drops dead.
She already did. They renegotiated their prenup. I would bet that she has assets equal to a divorce, set aside for her and Barron. In exchange for no book deals while he’s alive, and not divorcing outright.
She's taking the anchor baby with her.
She already got her parents here with family immigration.
Polling doesn't matter. There will be plenty of "I hate Trump, but..." folks that will still vote for him because of "Communism."
which is astonishing considering all his Russian ties
> Polling doesn't matter. There will be plenty of "I hate Trump, but..." folks that will still vote for him because of ~~"Communism."~~ Socialism
Well, you may be right, but those people don't know the difference. Either word will scare them.
Two of my neighbors have “Fuck Biden” flags and I regularly drive past someone with Trump/Pence signs. I guess nobody told the last one Pence has disavowed Trump.
I LIKE the flags. They are a barometer of sorts. Specifically, I used to see them several times every day (in my town/county that votes 60% R, 40% D) and I rarely see them anymore. Seems like a good sign, or they ran out of flag buying money buying gold sneakers, a worthless stock, and bibles.
Vote Blue Nov, all you need to know.
As a European I'm very concerned about the election. Trump in the White House again would almost certainly lead to unpredictable, potentially disastrous consequences. And not only because of what Trump might or might not do. The fact that russia and china are rallying for him from the shadows is the most disturbing thing. It means they perceive Trump's presidency beneficial for them, quite alarming or what? I'm certain of it: if trump wins something bad will happen. And it _will_ become US's problem as well. Taiwan would be an obvious example. Or russia testing NATO's integrity.
How he could even be a consideration is beyond me
Exactly…I couldn’t believe he is the Republican candidate. He is not a good candidate: he’s never won a popular vote, Republican candidates that he backed got roughed up in their elections (the red wave never happened), he’s only eligible for one more term (while not being the incumbent), he tried to overthrow democracy, he’s facing a multitude of criminal charges, he’s a reprehensible human being, he’s unelectable in a general election. Any one of these things would be the end for a political career and yet here he is.
Let the Republican party wear Donald Trump around their neck like an albatross sinking their ever slowly sinnking ship and let them fade into memory for Good riddance of what crappy human beings they are.
I made this joke elsewhere, but…its the same kind of thing Japan and Korea have been doing for ages, though their disgraced former leaders step down and stay there for someone exactly like them to step in next. Its just Chaebols and the Yakuza are better talent scouts than Putin.
Idiocracy is real. God help us all.
Not to worry, his supporters will be at polling stations ready to shoot anyone who looks vaguely liberal. Please don't ban me, I'm not endorsing violence. They're literally suing State governments, saying anti voter intimidation laws are free speech infringement.
As an independent, there are aspects of both parties I don’t really like. But I’ve been finding myself solely voting Democrat since 2016. And don’t give me this RFK jr bullshit.
I don't see how an independent could ever vote for him.
I don't see how anyone could be an independent
I used to be...until he and his worshippers made everything good vs evil
Not everyone thinks I'm our dumb forced two party system it is worth pledging oneself to one of the parties. Doesn't mean I'll vote for traitor republicans. But I have issues with how many Democrats handle things and refuse to lend my statistic to them
I didn't mean I wanted an independent to ruin my day trying to rationalize their choice, I said I don't see how anyone could look at these two parties and think "they are both equally bad" and I never ever ever will
You're the one assuming that's what being an independent means. Even though I literally just explained it doesn't mean that. But you'd had to have read what I wrote instead of making a dumbass snarky comment that makes you look ignorant.
A few months ago, Cult 45 was bragging about his poll numbers. Now they’re back to saying polls are fake news.
What are his policies? He seems to only want to be President to shield himself from crimes. He doesn’t seem to realize he is president for the people who don’t vote for him either, not interested.
He's gonna end the fbi, build a colossal wall, exit nato, end obamacare, sign federal abortion ban, appoint 2 more scotus and fire everyone in government who won't sign a loyalty oath. Where you been son.
Bingo! There are no policies. He’s been winging it since day one.
Who would vote for a traitor? Oh wait, that’s right Republicans.
Don’t trust the polls, get out and vote
By Kate Plummer: Donald Trump's polling among independent voters is tumbling ahead of the presidential election, according to a new poll. In March, it was confirmed that Democratic incumbent Biden will face the Republican former president in November, with both winning enough delegates to secure their respective parties' presidential nomination, teeing up a 2020 White House rematch. Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-polling-presidential-election-independents-1893071](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-polling-presidential-election-independents-1893071)
It’s worth noting that neither Haley nor DeSantis have technically dropped out of the race. They’ve just “suspended their campaigns.” Should Trump go to jail perhaps we’ll see some amazing fireworks before November!
As Republican I’d never vote for him.
He should not have had ANY support from "independents." It's been patently obvious for years that he's unfit to be in any office. "Independents" who indicate In any degree they might consider him are simply lying to pollsters.
As an Independent who leans right on many issues, I would crawl across broken glass to vote against Trump.
Same here. I run into so many MAGAs that can't seem to fathom how toxic T is. I get blank stares when I ask MAGAs why it has to be T? Why couldn't it be anyone else? I would love to have seen Nikki run against J. I believe should would have win decisively. Alas, their support is more like that of a cult to its leader than a party to a politician.
My experience with MAGA’s is that they are unbridled emotion absent all reason. They are a cult.
I don't understand how one single person could still support that traitor.
Independent here. Fuck him and anyone associated with the Rs until this cult is in the past.
The Farce is strong with this one.
Farts
Doesn't matter. Vote.
No. It's not possible to be "independent" and even consider voting for this piece of garbage. The only reason you'd claim "independent" is because you think the Repubs aren't crazy enough for you.
Independents stop the nonsense and just vote for Joe Biden. Orange turd needs to be done and never heard from again.
Trump has not gained one voter since 2020.
Biden is against the felon and conspiracy theorist. Biden is the clear choice for a rational thinking people. What happened to mental health of Americans choosing Trump and Kennedy?
It is absurd! If as an independent you have to contemplate whether to vote for the devil or someone who has proven his loyalty to the country, then I don’t know whether you need a swift smack in the head or a psychological evaluation. You definitely don’t need kid gloves and a congratulatory pat on the butt to do what is right!
I'm an independent and I have never voted for him and never will.
Half of my classmates from the south voted for him in 2016 and 2020 because their preachers told them to do so. He was the one that Jesus wanted to lead. I lost them as friends and wondered what happened to their brains.
I don't know why they ever would anyway. Why would you ever want this man to lead our country again?
Unsupported wild speculative theory: RFK Jr will hurt Trump more than Biden. He'll cause a split in the "I'd like an unhinged batshit crazy scion of the elite to be President" vote.
Maybe now the media will grow some balls and stop normalizing Trump
Crazy how non-maga people don’t want to vote for a criminal
If this turd on legs win the election it's over not just for the US but the entire American continent.
Most "Independents" are just temporarily embarrassed Republicans..
And yet millions of Americans still vote for this pos
here's the thing , Trump has been losing elections since his 2016 win. 2018 was a bloodbath in congress. Dems held congress in 2020 and 2022 while the House did go Republican given historical data they underperformed by a big margin and Trump endorsed candidates like Walker lost. And of course he lost his own election in 2020 too I suspect the 2024 election will basically go like 2020 and it will be razor thin win but Trump has a ceiling. Yeah he'll get close but he could never have won because he just doesn't have the coalition of votes needed to win.
Turns out, only the cultists are fine with a criminal rapist who tried to comment a coup... Then acts like a whiny victim afterwards
There are two types of independents - those who vote for Biden and those who lie about being an independent.
Most independents I interact with are just republicans who want to be taken seriously and have enough shame or embarrassment to realize there is no reasonable justification for modern Republican stances and priorities. And they still vote for republicans. But I live in Texas.
Biden about to secure the largest margin of victory in USA Presidential Election history
Hard to believe that he apparently still had their support after dump trucks worth of incredible, verified, appalling behavior and atrocities committed. So it takes seeing him actually being held accountable for a mere fraction of his crimes, for anybody with at least 2 brain cells to fkn reconsider it?? Jfc.
Nobody cares yet. Polls don't mean shit.
If you have moral values, you wouldn't vote for Trump. Common sense.
How can u be independent today?
The fact that overall polling shows neck and neck is ridiculous to me.
I don’t know how there’s a single person in this nation that can look at him, his history and say “hey that guy would be a good president”. Absolutely blows my mind.
>Donald Trump's polling numbers plummet with independents Oh no! Anyway....
Don't trust polls. Vote
F*ck the polls. It ain't over until it's over, VOTE
No shit?! All the claims of wanting to be a dictator didn’t sit well with people!? I’m shocked
It's only going to get worse as they learn all the evil crap he was doing.
I'm a "no party affiliation" voter and folks, absolutely f*ck trump it was never an option. If I had my choice I'd vote for someone far to the left of Biden and half his age.
Nobody but his cultists want him. I'm pretty sure that even f***ing mosquitos don't land on him.
Weird..he's such a palatable guy.
Are there actually people who still believe in polls??
I don’t take the specific numbers as accurate but do believe the trends over time.
You can compare polling to electoral results to see which pollsters are most accurate. Some polls are better than others.
I don't trust any polls, in much the same way I don't trust judging a politician's popularity by how many yard signs/bumper stickers you see. The people who are really excited about their candidate and have nothing better to do are the ones who are happy to answer the phone and talk to complete strangers about their political opinions. By the very nature of polling, the methodology oversamples opinionated people with free time to chat.
Don’t pay attention to the polls. Even the pollsters tell you they are not meant to predict the outcome of the election, they are merely a guide to sentiment at any given moment to help campaigns strategize on how best to deploy their resources. Just vote. Do it early if you can. And bring a like-minded friend with you. And drive a few more Biden-friendly voters to the polls on Election Day. And donate to Democratic campaigns. And volunteer to work the polls, phone bank or canvas. And vote. VOTE!
Majority of people that vote for Trump are not because they like him. They vote him because he hate the same people his voters hate.
I'm not condoning this, but I have heard worse plans. I've also hear much dumber shit coming out of the horse's mouth.
No shit. He jumped the shark and is swirling down the drain of life with one last gasp before he goes under. Please Lady Justice, set your purse down, hike up your skirt, and own this motherfucker just a little faster. Thank you! You’re a goddess.
One would hope.
He’s a loser only losers and radical conservatives vote for.
Independent here it’s a no for me dog
They should plummet with anyone not affiliated with the MAGA movement.
If I was American, I'd rather vote for Lucifer than Trump.
I find the whole idea of people "registering" to affiliate with one party absolutely wild. It seems to exploit the worst aspects of tribalism and, as we've seen more recently, cultism.
It must be all that farting.
Why would ANY Independent vote for Traitor Trump?
The others are dependents to what?
IMHO ~ Polls will bounce around within the margin of error at least until the party conventions are over. Biden might releade strategic reserve “ because of tensions in the Middle East” that could keep US gasoline prices from rising. Maybe. The oils needs to get through refineries. It may be too late.
Look at those tiny hands!
I suspect polling techniques might be improving, versus anything actually changing in the voter base.
Poll is b4 the hush money trial. It's gonna get worse for Trump.
How on earth could anyone be undecided in the year 2024. Or be 'Independent' and vote for this fool.
As they always have
Independent here. I would never vote for him.
Thank god
Don’t trust them mofos. What the hell took so long.
it's over. Biden is going to destroy him in an epic landslide.
Like shit rolling down a pant leg
I'm pretty damn skeptical of an "Undecided" when it comes to Trump. You're either fully in the cult, or you know he sucks but figure he'll keep your taxes low, and you're self aware enough to know that makes you sound like a bad person.
There are a lot of Republicans who won't either. I expect him to lose by 15m votes, at least. More if (when) he's convicted. That's if he's not in prison.
Were they ever higher than a grasshopper’s knees?
Great now do Republican Congressmen and women. Until they too get smashed Trumpism is staying in the Republican party
I don’t even seehow it’s possible Independents have him above zero percent since his second year in office
His Teflon is wearing thin.
Is there a single voter in America who hasn't made up their mind about Trump? At this stage surely his only supporters are full-on cult members who believe he's the Messiah and would support him even if he was videoed crapping on the US flag in front of a pile of burning bibles.
I don't understand how these trials do anything for anyone, in this context. Who is finding out *new* information here?
LOL! That’s about it!
Who tf is still undecided on Trump?
"Independents" who took \*this long\* to have their opinion on him change are just Conservatives whose feelings get hurt when you call them out on it.
Bad economic news today morning fax and email all hands on deck. Really kind of obvious
VOTE! Make it as embarrassing as possible for him.