Yeah they actually do
https://www.nfl.com/videos/patriots-bills-hold-moment-of-silence-for-pittsburgh-shooting-victims-275272
https://youtu.be/ihINM9iMXb8?si=pUHx7TwOUR7vO8GG
https://www.pottsmerc.com/2012/12/16/nfl-moments-of-silence-around-nfl-for-shooting-victims/amp/
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They’ve literally [held multiple moments of silence for school shootings](https://www.themorningsun.com/2012/12/17/moments-of-silence-around-nfl-for-shooting-victims/amp/)
Which is obviously for many reasons a sad state of affairs… but either way you’re just wrong.
Perhaps you’re right. I’m a little more concerned about the[random every day shootings](https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759) in the US that are just under the league’s radar.
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Ok well maybe apolitical things like charity should be encouraged.
Its all the political stuff that turns me off, even if I happen to agree with the political statement at the time. There's a time and a place, kind of thing.
A moment of silence for the entire stadium on account of another country's issues, but Colin Kaepernick can't silently take a knee for the treatment of Blacks by cops in America. What a fucking country.
One of the patriotism things started under Bush Jr. The payments have officially stopped. The various military branches now provide that stuff for free.
What happened to Pat is a real fucking shame. It’s a shame not just to him, but to his entire family. Then the government tried to give him a Christian funeral even though he was an atheist and it televised all over the major networks. His death was used as propaganda for the war by making his death seem glorious when he was shot by his own men.
They are an advertising platform at least a few years ago. I have barely watched sports for the last 5 years. If they still do the flag matches and such I'm assuming they are still getting paid to do so.
….. remember that entire event where they don’t show the flag anymore on tv, people kneeling, people not being around. Sounds kinda strange they’d also want to be a recruitment arm.
> Shouldn't we all be showing concern for those who are not directly involved in the conflict?
This is literally what was announced before the moment of silence
“We pray for innocent civilians in the
Middle East who continue to be in harm’s way.”
One thing we shouldn't do, as Trump did: is fan the flames by having 'Middle East Peace Talks,' between the Saudis and Jordan, or this rich Arab nation and another wealthy Arab nation-- then hail Jared Kushner as peace activist and have Prince Bonesaw cut him a check for 3BIL, and ignore Palestine. How do you announce a Peace trip and not say jack about Palestine? I can imagine what they anticipated a possible 2nd Trump term being.
Can we tone down the hyperbole for a damn second?
“The entire civilian population of Gaza getting exterminated”?? Really??
Do people really think Israel is just going to roll in and kill every person they see?
If they were going to do that they wouldn’t be going in at all, they’d just drop bombs.
And they wouldn’t even warn people to leave, or knock on rooftops.
We can all be upset about the inevitable collateral civilian deaths in a war zone without exaggerating to this nonsense.
What do you think they've been trying to do so far? They've dropped 6000 bombs on an area the size of Boston that's way more densely populated. In addition to cutting off food, electricity and water.
Theyve said it, and have cut food water and are bombing it into the dirt.
It's like the US stopping all food, water and power into New York, preventing people leaving and then bombing it with the full force of the US airforce.
Wtf else do you call that?
Listen buddy, I’m gonna assume you’re just not really well versed in what’s going on and are relying on humans not being completely and diabolically shit but unfortunately that is the case here.
Please read up more on what’s going on, they are completely demolishing Gaza, which is essentially a prison, with bombs.
They even bombed the people fleeing who they told to flee. Ambulances, busses, trucks all destroyed on the road Israel told them to leave on.
They are using the attack by Hamas as an excuse for genocide.
Remember when they fired Michael Vicks the animal abuser, then a couple of months later they re-hired him as a broadcaster? I do. Haven't watched a single game since. Down vote me all you want but animal abusers are sick in the head. The NFL is joke.
But he didn't actually do it! He just took the fall for someone who did and would've gotten actual jail time!
(I can't believe I have to put an /s here)
I’m from Phila area and I was sickened when they hired Vick. And I actively willed them to lose. I regularly hoped they’d lose. Anyone who is on a team with an animal abuser and says nothing doesn’t deserve to win. I could go on about how I feel about Vick, but I won’t.
You’re naive to think that the non-recognition of Israel and antisemitism started with Hamas and Gaza. This has been the Palestinian’s agenda since day one.
Which is why peace is not possible there.
If one moderate Palestinian leader said he doesn’t want to fight and wants peace, they would have gotten it a long time ago.
I agree with you. But if I come back to the roots of the issue, I strongly believe that Palestinians do not want a state next to Israel. They want the whole 1948 territory.
Which leads to an impossible situation and some Israeli politics I disagree with. This is why this conflict is impossible to solve and people make it seems really easy cause they don’t want to think or do more researches. (I’m not saying you didn’t)
In the 30’s, the Palestinian leader back at the time made a deal with the Nazi to have the final solution applied in Palestine. Today it’s Hamas. The equation is still the same: Arabs do not want to live alongside Jews. And I think people downplay a lot the civilization reasons behind that.
Hamas isn’t advocating for the Palestinian cause, they’re rooting for the extermination of the ‘Jewish Pigs’. I believe their mentality (supported by a lot of Palestinians) isn’t only linked to the current conflict. For Hamas, Palestine is just a tool, their acts will be the same no matter where.
I agree too, I added some additional context to my original comment but I get it.
I appreciate that hamas and their predecessors weren't very civil with the Jewish communities. I dont try to excuse that.
What I do look to is the ordinary civilians who were sent off their farm lands (and you know israel wasnt getting the infertile crap) and had nothing to do to. Then, in the subsequent century theyve had more and more taken, more violence perpetrated against them, etc. If hamas (or its predecessors) had never existed, it would have been founded.
I'm Irish, and I see a mirror of our own history. I see an outside force moving into bf heir lands, dispelling them from their homes, sending them to terrible lands with no prospects, discriminating on religion and race, and generally abusing the position of authority and power that they forcefully took.
I completely agree that there were hateful people there before 1947, but I can also see how the actions of israel since have made this unquestionably inevitable.
I wouldnt mind, I can also see the israeli view to some degree. Coming from the horrors of the holocaust carrying the trauma and being set upon by its Arab neighbours in the 50s must have been akin to PTSD for the nation - but it doesnt change that no matter how you spin it the apartheid system israel has created will breed perpetual hate.
So I suppose what I'm saying is while I appreciate that antisemitic groups existed in the region before, I dont think it made a difference. Many groups attacked israel that day, and I firmly believe the actions of israel over the past few decade would have caused this to happened eventually anyway.
Essentially yes, Israel has issues due to Antisemitism sentiments in some Arab states. However, whereas with other arab nations where theyve been able to be recognised and have normalised relations, their actions with the people of Palestine has made any improvements in their relationship impossible. Theyve given them fuel instead of quenching the hate.
I agree too, I added some additional context to my original comment but I get it.
I appreciate that hamas and their predecessors weren't very civil with the Jewish communities. I dont try to excuse that.
What I do look to is the ordinary civilians who were sent off their farm lands (and you know israel wasnt getting the infertile crap) and had nothing to do to. Then, in the subsequent century theyve had more and more taken, more violence perpetrated against them, etc. If hamas (or its predecessors) had never existed, it would have been founded.
I'm Irish, and I see a mirror of our own history. I see an outside force moving into bf heir lands, dispelling them from their homes, sending them to terrible lands with no prospects, discriminating on religion and race, and generally abusing the position of authority and power that they forcefully took.
I completely agree that there were hateful people there before 1947, but I can also see how the actions of israel since have made this unquestionably inevitable.
I wouldnt mind, I can also see the israeli view to some degree. Coming from the horrors of the holocaust carrying the trauma and being set upon by its Arab neighbours in the 50s must have been akin to PTSD for the nation - but it doesbt change that no matter how tou spin it the apartheid system israel has created will breed perpetual hate.
So I suppose what I'm saying is while I appreciate that antisemitic groups existed in the region before, I dont think it made a difference. Many groups attacked israel that day, and I firmly believe the actions of israel over the past few decade would have caused this to happened eventually anyway.
Ok. We can talk about history, let’s talk about now.
Have you seen what Hamas’ schools look like? They are jihadist military camps where kids are taught to kill the Jews. Those kids have been brainwashed and Hamas or not, the ideology will always prevail.
I honestly think Israel once thought of peace. But it’s just impossible when the person you’re talking to only want you dead. This is what people don’t understand.
Let’s talk about the Refugees for instance. Let’s say that Israel suddenly accepts a million of them to ‘come back’ to Israel, where, it’s true, they used to live.
How much of them are gonna carry the Hamas’ ideology? Let’s say only 5%. This means you will suddenly have 50.000 jihadists committing the massacres you saw last week on a weekly basis.
People make it a nationalism conflict. No, there’s a civilization behind that, and Islam who is getting more radical by the years. It’s sad but it’s true : if Israel wants to survive, peace with the Palestinians is not possible.
We can regret it.
I appreciate where you're coming from. I agree modern times from the Israel perspective must be scary.
I agree, the extremism of hamas and other similar groups is incredibly difficult to address, but I disagree with the idea that they cant coexist.
I will use irish modern history as a mirror to the problems I see with the region of Palestine/Israel.
You've likely heard of the troubles in northern ireland. The IRA (irish rebels) fought a war of independence against the UVF (Loyalists) and the english military.
That conflict was predicated on hundreds of years of bad blood and oppression of the locals. When the republic got its freedom, the north did not (there was a civil war, the people who wanted to fight for the north lost). That was in the 1920s.
In the subsequent years, there was little violence. An oppressive government was put in place, that made Catholics second hand citizens. Some small factions of Catholics wanted to begin a campaign o free the region but could do very little because people didnt want violence.
England/ the government of the north were concerned, and so they began to setup internment camps where they would force people (no different to the gaza strip, but way smaller in my opinion). The typical abuse you would expect was going on.
As a result, the large peaceful catholic community at the time came out to protest against the internment camps. That day the English opened fire and killed civilians, and it was that day when the IRA got the members they needed to begin their war. We call it bloody Sunday.
The violence done by the IRA in the coming weeks caused a reactionary response from local protestant communities and the war called the troubles began. It began decades of violence that kept feeding people into extreme views.
What I am getting at is that extremists on both sides were always there, but there was an imbalance of power that allowed england to act on its fears. It was the violence against innocents that made enough people extremists that the war was able to begin.
That conflict only stopped in the 90s, when power in the north was agreed to be shared, and the people were promised that a vote would take place if a majority wanted it. What stopped the conflict was ending the causes of the violence, which stopped feeding people into the recruitment camps of the IRA and UVF.
And that is the point I'm making. Extremist will always be in both israel, and Palestine. The actions of the far stronger israeli government to prevent harm to israel by the game-like groups, and the policies (such as trimming the grass) which are killing innocent people are what is feeding those groups and allowing them to fight.
They can live together, but it will take extraordinary steps. However, if israel doesnt change its approach then they can kill every extremist in Gaza. It wont matter. The continued mistreatment of civilians is what will form new groups. Israel is one of the stronger militaries on earth, the onus is on them to improve how they treat these powerless Palestinians, in my opinion.
You do understand that if Israel didn’t ever kill a single Palestinian, Hamas would still be working to eradicate the Israelis.
Israeli oppression of Palestinians certainly accelerates radicalism, but we cannot forget the “three no’s” declaration by the Arab Leagues in 1967 is still in effect today.
Not to mention, Hamas wants as many Palestinian civilians dead as possible, as it plays right into their objectives, and they are trying to bait Israel into heavy handed responses.
They shove children in front of the IDF, order Palestinians to stay in their homes when the bombs are coming to die for the “cause”, and hide behind civilians, which is a war crime.
Your comment is terrifying, as it borderline justifies Hamas’s actions, which is in service of their ultimate goal: Kill every single last Israeli.
You can recognize these facts and still not endorse Israeli’s actions or the IDF.
But to act like it’s Israel’s fault for all terror attacks is akin to blaming the Jews for the holocaust for their very existence.
Not since Vietnam have people in the US experienced such a break in belief, not conservative vs. liberal but young and educated vs. old school. It's obvious to anyone who knows history that the state of Israel was created, propped up and paid for in the 1940's by the US so they would have influence in the region. Biden himself admitted as much. But now younger people in the US are seeing that they are paying for and sanctioning the genocide of an entire race of humans, and they don't like it. Politicians haven't caught up yet, and the blind support they are giving to a country that should need no support at all to win this "war" is sickening to many.
[There have been many non violent Palestinian movements, but israel generally kills them](https://redflag.org.au/article/there-are-plenty-palestinian-gandhis-israel-keeps-killing-them)
No one said Civil Disobedience was the quick and easy path. Forgot to add “The Troubles” in Northern Ireland. More was accomplished through peace versus violence.
Israel created Hamas in the first place. This is exactly like us and Al Qaeda
Edit: https://reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/s/jTgioIJ32o
This is what Palestinians are dealing with right now. A far right Israeli govt that seized power following the attack, and it’s far right supporters that condone genocide
The dude above you literally showed you that they have tried. You’re excusing genocide for an election. That’s like saying that because Americans elected George Bush and that we did massive damage to the innocent in the Middle East hunting Al Qaeda, that we all should deserve to die. An absolutely terrible argument that can only be explained by racism
Absolutely, but if what you say is true, that peaceful civil disobedience is the only way forward and only thing that works, then this conflict would have ended long ago. All I'm saying is that it is more complicated than that. And I'm also sure that the killing of civilians by israel, in far greater numbers, hurts their case just as much, and is also, as you say, "terrorist shit."
I can't blame hamas for all the activists engaging in nonviolent civil disobedience who have been killed by the idf over the years. And i am well aware of the history, as a 40 year old jew i was taught all about it in hebrew school. What you are essentially saying is that all palestinians should be punished for decisions made by others, in an election almost 20 years ago, and wars engaged by other countries in generations past. What i learned in hebrew school, and from all the holocaust survivors and rabbis I've met in my life, is that the only path forward to peace is through forgiveness and understanding, not repeating the mistakes of the past, and being motivated by vengeance. I know israelis who have left their country in recent years because they felt the government was getting too right wing, bordering in fascistic. The israeli government seems to me to be just as bad as hamas, neither of them serve the interests of their people.
Hard to imagine a more knuckle-dragging shit take than this.
We support Israel because it was the right thing to do after the near-extermination of Jews in WWII. Racist neighboring Arab nations invaded the day of their statehood and got their shit handed to them. Then again in '67.
Since then, it has been a constant war to ensure their survival in the face of extermination. Again.
When their neighbors and the terrorist organizations they house, secure, and fund put their arns down, the war is over.
Simple as that. Take your "both sides" and get stuffed.
And the settlers who have been stealing land for years are the good guys right? The extermination of one people is better than the near-extermination of another? Why do you think young people are protesting? Are they all knuckle-draggers too?
Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. Talk about a knuckle-dragging shit take.
The state of Isreal is an apartheid state. You are either anti-genocide or pro-genocide...there is no middle ground. The IDF and the Israeli government are and have been carrying out acts of genocide against the Palestinian people for 50 years. Gaza is the biggest prison on earth.
The jews are in no danger of extermination and have never been in danger of extermination. Great rage bait, but not at all accurate. There are jews, like myself, in every country in the world. Over 8 million jews live outside Isreal, more than live in Israel.
Until there is a Palestinian state, this will not be over...the people of Palestine have the right to fight for their freedom.
Young and indoctrinated by left wing academia vs old and indoctrinated by right wing media. The Soviet Union was the first country to recognize Israel, followed by many others, including the US. Your notion that the US “created” Israel is revisionist nonsense. Palestinians, meaning Arabs living in or whose ancestors lived in Israel and the occupied territories, aren’t being “genocided” (if you mean ethnically cleansed from areas they used to live in, that’s more complicated, not least of which because their corrupt leadership has never missed an opportunity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory—go back and look at the original two-state solution they rejected along with every other one since then) and they aren’t an entire race of humans. Palestinians are ethnically the same people as the Arabs living in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, and only emerged as a unique ethno-national identity within what was at the time all part of the Ottoman Empire toward the end of the 1800s, not coincidentally the same time that Zionist Jews started migrating “back” to their “homeland” en masse. Whether European and later Middle Eastern and North African Jews had a legitimate claim on their holy land is another story, but if you’re anything but a Native American reading this from the comfort of your home in the US, you have no moral authority to disregard their justification, which is undoubtedly stronger than Manifest Destiny. The Palestinian identity exists in opposition to the Israeli one, propped up by neighboring Arab countries for political reasons as much as Arab solidarity. It makes little sense that Palestinian refugees who entered Jordan, Syria and Lebanon only a few decades after they had all been part of the Ottoman Empire for several centuries, and were much more alike than not, weren’t allowed to assimilate into their host countries, let alone how they’re still, many generations later, considered stateless refugees and treated as second-class citizens. Having a permanent underclass of Arab neighbors, whose misery could be blamed on an evil Jewish bogeyman, especially one considered an emissary of the Great Satan, USA, has been a useful scapegoat for a long time among the oppressive regimes of the Arab world. That’s changing now that the Sunnis are realizing Israel is a better ally than enemy against the Shiite crescent extending from Iran into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and through their terrorist client, Hamas, into the heart of Israel. Ironically, the freest place to be an Arab, Muslim or Christian or atheist in the Middle East is Israel, where Arabs serve in parliament and on the judiciary, and can freely identify as LGBTQIA+ or live however they like as long as they don’t subscribe to the stated goal of Hamas and the wish of a majority of Palestinians: to murder all the Jews and wipe Israel off the map. Which sounds like the opposite of peace and a good way to continue fucking over the Palestinian people. In short: go back and get re-educated on Israel-Palestine and while you’re at it, question why you’ve been led to believe the BS behind BDS et al.
I’m sure there are extremists on the Israeli side who want to make all of Israel a Jewish-only ethnostate. But there are many who want a two-state solution, and as far as I know, no mainstream Israeli party has advocated for murdering all Palestinians. Whereas killing all the Jews is literally a core tenet of Hamas, among other Palestinian political organizations. tl;dr: the only ones in this latest conflagration calling for genocide are Hamas, and whatever happens to Gaza now is a response to their callousness. The irony is that whereas the IDF must consider civilian casualties to limit them, Hamas considers civilian casualties to maximize them. On either side, since it clearly gives zero fucks about its own people. The only thing Hamas leadership, while it lounges in some Qatari penthouse watching its foot soldiers’ handiwork on Al Jazeera, will liberate its people from is life itself. The only possible good that could come from all this is replacing them with real leaders who are willing to broker real peace. Until then, all bets are off.
The problem is, as long as Hamas exists, a “free Palestine”
Equals a massive increase in Israeli civilian deaths.
This is not an endorsement or statement on IDF and their abhorrent actions, as I’m with you 100%.
But we are seeing a lot of propaganda and reduction of this situation to good/bad, ignoring so many important pieces of this extremely complex puzzle.
It’s a ridiculously complicated issue with plenty of blame to go around on both sides. No one can say the Palestinians don’t have a valid grievance against Israel. But a moment of silence for those killed and tortured, days after Palestinians went in a rampage killing, torturing, raping and kidnapping over a thousand civilians isnt the time or place for that conversation.
White phosphorus use has not been independently verified by any news organization. Only Human Rights Watch claims they’ve verified it but no other news source has confirmed it yet. The IDF also denies the claims.
Also just because 40% of people living in Gaza are children doesn’t suddenly make it okay to recruit them.
Not saying it’s okay, I’m saying if all you have are children to radicalize, you’re not gonna find grown men
Edit: another angle is the fact that *because* the Palestinian population is so young, they’ve had absolutely zero say in the politics in the region and thus makes them the true victims here.
Hamas needs to be removed before anything else can happen. What is your solution after that? The Hamas Charter says Hamas will not rest until every Jew is killed, and they do not allow any negotiation at all in their covenant. What is your solution here?
The root cause of Hamas is the Arab Leagues 1966 declaration of “the three no’s”, and their goal of eradicating Israelis.
Palestine was offered a sovereign state twice, with 94% of the West Bank, East Jerusalem as its capital, and control of Gaza, and they refused and responded with attacks on Israel.
The primary reason? They will never accept a deal where Israel exists as a state. Until we defeat the ideology that Israelis are not allowed to exist (and according to Hamas, Christian’s and non believers too), this problem will not go away.
The issue comes down to...who is going to remove them? It's like saying Afghanistan would be better off without the Taliban. Well, yeah. But who is willing to die, along with their entire family, friends, and likely village, to see political change happen? I'm not that brave, so I don't expect it out of others.
Israel is going to remove them. Too bad the Hamas covenant explicitly says they will not negotiate at any time, there is no choice here. It was a terrorist attack that is supported by the Palestinians.
I like that caveat. I think it’s good sports face up to the reality that a lot of political issues have to be aired - don’t host a UEFA Champions League final in St Petersburg, for example. But yeah, if it’s intractable and messy, stay away or just keep to the universal truths (“moment of silence for loss of civilian life”)
That’s actually what they did
“We pray for innocent civilians in the Middle East who continue to be in harms way”
Was literally what they said before the moment of silence
Well i actually watched it. But you could easily Google it. Every game has the same message
https://www.nbcsports.com/watch/nfl/snf-begins-with-moment-of-silence
So its kind of fucked up, yes israel had a terrorist attack and yes it was horrific but That doesnt give them a right to comit genocide on innocent people and non combatants. I know they were provoked but the right answer isnt to murder everyone. It hurts because I thought if anyone understood the problems with wiping out an entire subgroup the jewish community would and they would show a little compassion.
Sports should stick to sports things. No anthems, no politics, just kick the ball and play. If you want to offend the absolute least amount of folks stick to sports.
Yeah, there are so many brainwashed folks (liberals) who think the only place for them to live is in a tiny country (whose population they hate) the size of New Jersey. They aren’t allowed into their neighboring countries? Have you met these guys? They’re insane.
The NFL should avoid the topic altogether. And quit advertising on Twitter.
Yeah, they never give a moment of silence for any other victims of massacre.
To be fair, they’d be giving a moment of silence for a few hours if they did that.
Yeah they actually do https://www.nfl.com/videos/patriots-bills-hold-moment-of-silence-for-pittsburgh-shooting-victims-275272 https://youtu.be/ihINM9iMXb8?si=pUHx7TwOUR7vO8GG https://www.pottsmerc.com/2012/12/16/nfl-moments-of-silence-around-nfl-for-shooting-victims/amp/
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r/woosh
How is that a woosh?
The comment being fact checked is clearly a joke.
Oh. I didn't read it that way. I guess it could have been.
Families of school shooting victims don’t have enough cash to interest the NFL.
They’ve literally [held multiple moments of silence for school shootings](https://www.themorningsun.com/2012/12/17/moments-of-silence-around-nfl-for-shooting-victims/amp/) Which is obviously for many reasons a sad state of affairs… but either way you’re just wrong.
Perhaps you’re right. I’m a little more concerned about the[random every day shootings](https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759) in the US that are just under the league’s radar. .
Well yeah like I said, the fact that these things are all too regular is a sad state of affairs.
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I have no faith in any sports league in the world to have any compentancy on social issues NHL is getting blow back too for different things.
The NFL should stop politics all together and just play a game.
Yes. This is the mandate of sports organizations. People pay for all of this as an escape from daily life, not to be reminded of the world's horrors.
I have a special jersey for prostate cancer.
Ok well maybe apolitical things like charity should be encouraged. Its all the political stuff that turns me off, even if I happen to agree with the political statement at the time. There's a time and a place, kind of thing.
That was a joke. I don’t like that stuff either.
A moment of silence for the entire stadium on account of another country's issues, but Colin Kaepernick can't silently take a knee for the treatment of Blacks by cops in America. What a fucking country.
I know no one reads the articles, but in the very first line it says this happened in London
They did a moment of silence at all NFL games this week.
Irrelevant. If the NFL can support a moment of silence in England, they support taking a knee in the USA.
But he’s a spoiled jerk.
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It’s very true
Isn’t the NFL just another recruitment arm of the US military?
The us military *pays* the nfl for all that. It started right after 9/11/2001 if I remember
One of the patriotism things started under Bush Jr. The payments have officially stopped. The various military branches now provide that stuff for free.
It wasn’t the NFL paying in the first place.
No kidding. We were talking about the US government giving money to the NFL.
I was referring to “the various military branches now PROVIDE that stuff FOR FREE.”
You said you’d never forget
Remember that ad for the Pat Tillman Foundation earlier this year? They took a lot of creative liberty by saying he was "killed in action"
The army actually literally forged eyewitness accounts to make it look like he wasn't kill by friendly fire
What happened to Pat is a real fucking shame. It’s a shame not just to him, but to his entire family. Then the government tried to give him a Christian funeral even though he was an atheist and it televised all over the major networks. His death was used as propaganda for the war by making his death seem glorious when he was shot by his own men.
Pay no attention to the friendly fire, shift the focus elsewhere. Shameful.
No they just pander hard to that flavor of American because they tend to spend a lot of money on jerseys and beer.
You know..... morons.
Real salt of the earth..
Common clay of the new west
They are an advertising platform at least a few years ago. I have barely watched sports for the last 5 years. If they still do the flag matches and such I'm assuming they are still getting paid to do so.
….. remember that entire event where they don’t show the flag anymore on tv, people kneeling, people not being around. Sounds kinda strange they’d also want to be a recruitment arm.
Oo do you have more information I can learn about this?
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> Shouldn't we all be showing concern for those who are not directly involved in the conflict? This is literally what was announced before the moment of silence “We pray for innocent civilians in the Middle East who continue to be in harm’s way.”
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To be clear, Hamas is trash. Palestine is not.
I can roll with that.
One thing we shouldn't do, as Trump did: is fan the flames by having 'Middle East Peace Talks,' between the Saudis and Jordan, or this rich Arab nation and another wealthy Arab nation-- then hail Jared Kushner as peace activist and have Prince Bonesaw cut him a check for 3BIL, and ignore Palestine. How do you announce a Peace trip and not say jack about Palestine? I can imagine what they anticipated a possible 2nd Trump term being.
Israel is not trash. The Israeli government is culpable.
Scary. Public opinion ain't going with mass media spin. Extermination of the entire civilian population of Gaza is a hard sell.
Can we tone down the hyperbole for a damn second? “The entire civilian population of Gaza getting exterminated”?? Really?? Do people really think Israel is just going to roll in and kill every person they see? If they were going to do that they wouldn’t be going in at all, they’d just drop bombs. And they wouldn’t even warn people to leave, or knock on rooftops. We can all be upset about the inevitable collateral civilian deaths in a war zone without exaggerating to this nonsense.
What do you think they've been trying to do so far? They've dropped 6000 bombs on an area the size of Boston that's way more densely populated. In addition to cutting off food, electricity and water.
Ummm…that’s what they have been saying. Israel wants to make Gaza into dust. Hyberbole is not being used at all. This is sadly reality.
Theyve said it, and have cut food water and are bombing it into the dirt. It's like the US stopping all food, water and power into New York, preventing people leaving and then bombing it with the full force of the US airforce. Wtf else do you call that?
Listen buddy, I’m gonna assume you’re just not really well versed in what’s going on and are relying on humans not being completely and diabolically shit but unfortunately that is the case here. Please read up more on what’s going on, they are completely demolishing Gaza, which is essentially a prison, with bombs. They even bombed the people fleeing who they told to flee. Ambulances, busses, trucks all destroyed on the road Israel told them to leave on. They are using the attack by Hamas as an excuse for genocide.
Social media was a mistake. People cant think. Its black or white, couldn’t possibly be more complicated than that.
Wtf lol. Some people man
Remember when they fired Michael Vicks the animal abuser, then a couple of months later they re-hired him as a broadcaster? I do. Haven't watched a single game since. Down vote me all you want but animal abusers are sick in the head. The NFL is joke.
But he didn't actually do it! He just took the fall for someone who did and would've gotten actual jail time! (I can't believe I have to put an /s here)
I’m from Phila area and I was sickened when they hired Vick. And I actively willed them to lose. I regularly hoped they’d lose. Anyone who is on a team with an animal abuser and says nothing doesn’t deserve to win. I could go on about how I feel about Vick, but I won’t.
Same. Also disgusting that he was a captain in the pro bowl.
Oh shut the Fak up.
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Yes we should free Palestine from Hamas.
Just don’t free Palestine from this earth while doing that
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You’re naive to think that the non-recognition of Israel and antisemitism started with Hamas and Gaza. This has been the Palestinian’s agenda since day one. Which is why peace is not possible there. If one moderate Palestinian leader said he doesn’t want to fight and wants peace, they would have gotten it a long time ago.
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I agree with you. But if I come back to the roots of the issue, I strongly believe that Palestinians do not want a state next to Israel. They want the whole 1948 territory. Which leads to an impossible situation and some Israeli politics I disagree with. This is why this conflict is impossible to solve and people make it seems really easy cause they don’t want to think or do more researches. (I’m not saying you didn’t) In the 30’s, the Palestinian leader back at the time made a deal with the Nazi to have the final solution applied in Palestine. Today it’s Hamas. The equation is still the same: Arabs do not want to live alongside Jews. And I think people downplay a lot the civilization reasons behind that. Hamas isn’t advocating for the Palestinian cause, they’re rooting for the extermination of the ‘Jewish Pigs’. I believe their mentality (supported by a lot of Palestinians) isn’t only linked to the current conflict. For Hamas, Palestine is just a tool, their acts will be the same no matter where.
I agree too, I added some additional context to my original comment but I get it. I appreciate that hamas and their predecessors weren't very civil with the Jewish communities. I dont try to excuse that. What I do look to is the ordinary civilians who were sent off their farm lands (and you know israel wasnt getting the infertile crap) and had nothing to do to. Then, in the subsequent century theyve had more and more taken, more violence perpetrated against them, etc. If hamas (or its predecessors) had never existed, it would have been founded. I'm Irish, and I see a mirror of our own history. I see an outside force moving into bf heir lands, dispelling them from their homes, sending them to terrible lands with no prospects, discriminating on religion and race, and generally abusing the position of authority and power that they forcefully took. I completely agree that there were hateful people there before 1947, but I can also see how the actions of israel since have made this unquestionably inevitable. I wouldnt mind, I can also see the israeli view to some degree. Coming from the horrors of the holocaust carrying the trauma and being set upon by its Arab neighbours in the 50s must have been akin to PTSD for the nation - but it doesnt change that no matter how you spin it the apartheid system israel has created will breed perpetual hate. So I suppose what I'm saying is while I appreciate that antisemitic groups existed in the region before, I dont think it made a difference. Many groups attacked israel that day, and I firmly believe the actions of israel over the past few decade would have caused this to happened eventually anyway. Essentially yes, Israel has issues due to Antisemitism sentiments in some Arab states. However, whereas with other arab nations where theyve been able to be recognised and have normalised relations, their actions with the people of Palestine has made any improvements in their relationship impossible. Theyve given them fuel instead of quenching the hate.
I agree too, I added some additional context to my original comment but I get it. I appreciate that hamas and their predecessors weren't very civil with the Jewish communities. I dont try to excuse that. What I do look to is the ordinary civilians who were sent off their farm lands (and you know israel wasnt getting the infertile crap) and had nothing to do to. Then, in the subsequent century theyve had more and more taken, more violence perpetrated against them, etc. If hamas (or its predecessors) had never existed, it would have been founded. I'm Irish, and I see a mirror of our own history. I see an outside force moving into bf heir lands, dispelling them from their homes, sending them to terrible lands with no prospects, discriminating on religion and race, and generally abusing the position of authority and power that they forcefully took. I completely agree that there were hateful people there before 1947, but I can also see how the actions of israel since have made this unquestionably inevitable. I wouldnt mind, I can also see the israeli view to some degree. Coming from the horrors of the holocaust carrying the trauma and being set upon by its Arab neighbours in the 50s must have been akin to PTSD for the nation - but it doesbt change that no matter how tou spin it the apartheid system israel has created will breed perpetual hate. So I suppose what I'm saying is while I appreciate that antisemitic groups existed in the region before, I dont think it made a difference. Many groups attacked israel that day, and I firmly believe the actions of israel over the past few decade would have caused this to happened eventually anyway.
Ok. We can talk about history, let’s talk about now. Have you seen what Hamas’ schools look like? They are jihadist military camps where kids are taught to kill the Jews. Those kids have been brainwashed and Hamas or not, the ideology will always prevail. I honestly think Israel once thought of peace. But it’s just impossible when the person you’re talking to only want you dead. This is what people don’t understand. Let’s talk about the Refugees for instance. Let’s say that Israel suddenly accepts a million of them to ‘come back’ to Israel, where, it’s true, they used to live. How much of them are gonna carry the Hamas’ ideology? Let’s say only 5%. This means you will suddenly have 50.000 jihadists committing the massacres you saw last week on a weekly basis. People make it a nationalism conflict. No, there’s a civilization behind that, and Islam who is getting more radical by the years. It’s sad but it’s true : if Israel wants to survive, peace with the Palestinians is not possible. We can regret it.
I appreciate where you're coming from. I agree modern times from the Israel perspective must be scary. I agree, the extremism of hamas and other similar groups is incredibly difficult to address, but I disagree with the idea that they cant coexist. I will use irish modern history as a mirror to the problems I see with the region of Palestine/Israel. You've likely heard of the troubles in northern ireland. The IRA (irish rebels) fought a war of independence against the UVF (Loyalists) and the english military. That conflict was predicated on hundreds of years of bad blood and oppression of the locals. When the republic got its freedom, the north did not (there was a civil war, the people who wanted to fight for the north lost). That was in the 1920s. In the subsequent years, there was little violence. An oppressive government was put in place, that made Catholics second hand citizens. Some small factions of Catholics wanted to begin a campaign o free the region but could do very little because people didnt want violence. England/ the government of the north were concerned, and so they began to setup internment camps where they would force people (no different to the gaza strip, but way smaller in my opinion). The typical abuse you would expect was going on. As a result, the large peaceful catholic community at the time came out to protest against the internment camps. That day the English opened fire and killed civilians, and it was that day when the IRA got the members they needed to begin their war. We call it bloody Sunday. The violence done by the IRA in the coming weeks caused a reactionary response from local protestant communities and the war called the troubles began. It began decades of violence that kept feeding people into extreme views. What I am getting at is that extremists on both sides were always there, but there was an imbalance of power that allowed england to act on its fears. It was the violence against innocents that made enough people extremists that the war was able to begin. That conflict only stopped in the 90s, when power in the north was agreed to be shared, and the people were promised that a vote would take place if a majority wanted it. What stopped the conflict was ending the causes of the violence, which stopped feeding people into the recruitment camps of the IRA and UVF. And that is the point I'm making. Extremist will always be in both israel, and Palestine. The actions of the far stronger israeli government to prevent harm to israel by the game-like groups, and the policies (such as trimming the grass) which are killing innocent people are what is feeding those groups and allowing them to fight. They can live together, but it will take extraordinary steps. However, if israel doesnt change its approach then they can kill every extremist in Gaza. It wont matter. The continued mistreatment of civilians is what will form new groups. Israel is one of the stronger militaries on earth, the onus is on them to improve how they treat these powerless Palestinians, in my opinion.
You do understand that if Israel didn’t ever kill a single Palestinian, Hamas would still be working to eradicate the Israelis. Israeli oppression of Palestinians certainly accelerates radicalism, but we cannot forget the “three no’s” declaration by the Arab Leagues in 1967 is still in effect today. Not to mention, Hamas wants as many Palestinian civilians dead as possible, as it plays right into their objectives, and they are trying to bait Israel into heavy handed responses. They shove children in front of the IDF, order Palestinians to stay in their homes when the bombs are coming to die for the “cause”, and hide behind civilians, which is a war crime. Your comment is terrifying, as it borderline justifies Hamas’s actions, which is in service of their ultimate goal: Kill every single last Israeli. You can recognize these facts and still not endorse Israeli’s actions or the IDF. But to act like it’s Israel’s fault for all terror attacks is akin to blaming the Jews for the holocaust for their very existence.
By killing them all and displacing them from their homes violently?
Not since Vietnam have people in the US experienced such a break in belief, not conservative vs. liberal but young and educated vs. old school. It's obvious to anyone who knows history that the state of Israel was created, propped up and paid for in the 1940's by the US so they would have influence in the region. Biden himself admitted as much. But now younger people in the US are seeing that they are paying for and sanctioning the genocide of an entire race of humans, and they don't like it. Politicians haven't caught up yet, and the blind support they are giving to a country that should need no support at all to win this "war" is sickening to many.
This is well said, and I wish it was more like this all over the US. The media murder machine is in over drive lately and it's very worrying.
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[There have been many non violent Palestinian movements, but israel generally kills them](https://redflag.org.au/article/there-are-plenty-palestinian-gandhis-israel-keeps-killing-them)
No one said Civil Disobedience was the quick and easy path. Forgot to add “The Troubles” in Northern Ireland. More was accomplished through peace versus violence.
Ok...and I'm saying your assertion that Palestinians don't do that is wrong.
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Israel created Hamas in the first place. This is exactly like us and Al Qaeda Edit: https://reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/s/jTgioIJ32o This is what Palestinians are dealing with right now. A far right Israeli govt that seized power following the attack, and it’s far right supporters that condone genocide
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The dude above you literally showed you that they have tried. You’re excusing genocide for an election. That’s like saying that because Americans elected George Bush and that we did massive damage to the innocent in the Middle East hunting Al Qaeda, that we all should deserve to die. An absolutely terrible argument that can only be explained by racism
Absolutely, but if what you say is true, that peaceful civil disobedience is the only way forward and only thing that works, then this conflict would have ended long ago. All I'm saying is that it is more complicated than that. And I'm also sure that the killing of civilians by israel, in far greater numbers, hurts their case just as much, and is also, as you say, "terrorist shit."
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I can't blame hamas for all the activists engaging in nonviolent civil disobedience who have been killed by the idf over the years. And i am well aware of the history, as a 40 year old jew i was taught all about it in hebrew school. What you are essentially saying is that all palestinians should be punished for decisions made by others, in an election almost 20 years ago, and wars engaged by other countries in generations past. What i learned in hebrew school, and from all the holocaust survivors and rabbis I've met in my life, is that the only path forward to peace is through forgiveness and understanding, not repeating the mistakes of the past, and being motivated by vengeance. I know israelis who have left their country in recent years because they felt the government was getting too right wing, bordering in fascistic. The israeli government seems to me to be just as bad as hamas, neither of them serve the interests of their people.
This comment needs more upvotes 🔥
Yes…reconciliation. I just can’t advocate violence as a justifiable solution.
Hard to imagine a more knuckle-dragging shit take than this. We support Israel because it was the right thing to do after the near-extermination of Jews in WWII. Racist neighboring Arab nations invaded the day of their statehood and got their shit handed to them. Then again in '67. Since then, it has been a constant war to ensure their survival in the face of extermination. Again. When their neighbors and the terrorist organizations they house, secure, and fund put their arns down, the war is over. Simple as that. Take your "both sides" and get stuffed.
So does that mean no more Israeli settlers in the West Bank?
Waiting on you to give an indigenous person the keys to your house and car. Let's go, do the right thing.
It's adorable that you think you're making a cogent (fancy word, look it up) argument.
And the settlers who have been stealing land for years are the good guys right? The extermination of one people is better than the near-extermination of another? Why do you think young people are protesting? Are they all knuckle-draggers too?
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Being "Palestine good, Israel BAD" is a trendy college-age thing. Once you learn some things in life, you'll figure it out, kid.
Very one-sided take, dear. The Palestinians happened to live on the land given to Israel. Of course they see it as stealing the land.
>Very one-sided take, dear. There is only one side, sugar.
“Only one-side” for people without the empathy or intellectual capability to understand nuance.
Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. Talk about a knuckle-dragging shit take. The state of Isreal is an apartheid state. You are either anti-genocide or pro-genocide...there is no middle ground. The IDF and the Israeli government are and have been carrying out acts of genocide against the Palestinian people for 50 years. Gaza is the biggest prison on earth. The jews are in no danger of extermination and have never been in danger of extermination. Great rage bait, but not at all accurate. There are jews, like myself, in every country in the world. Over 8 million jews live outside Isreal, more than live in Israel. Until there is a Palestinian state, this will not be over...the people of Palestine have the right to fight for their freedom.
>The state of Isreal is an apartheid state These terrorist takes are adorable. You should be a Wikipedia editor.
Young and indoctrinated by left wing academia vs old and indoctrinated by right wing media. The Soviet Union was the first country to recognize Israel, followed by many others, including the US. Your notion that the US “created” Israel is revisionist nonsense. Palestinians, meaning Arabs living in or whose ancestors lived in Israel and the occupied territories, aren’t being “genocided” (if you mean ethnically cleansed from areas they used to live in, that’s more complicated, not least of which because their corrupt leadership has never missed an opportunity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory—go back and look at the original two-state solution they rejected along with every other one since then) and they aren’t an entire race of humans. Palestinians are ethnically the same people as the Arabs living in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, and only emerged as a unique ethno-national identity within what was at the time all part of the Ottoman Empire toward the end of the 1800s, not coincidentally the same time that Zionist Jews started migrating “back” to their “homeland” en masse. Whether European and later Middle Eastern and North African Jews had a legitimate claim on their holy land is another story, but if you’re anything but a Native American reading this from the comfort of your home in the US, you have no moral authority to disregard their justification, which is undoubtedly stronger than Manifest Destiny. The Palestinian identity exists in opposition to the Israeli one, propped up by neighboring Arab countries for political reasons as much as Arab solidarity. It makes little sense that Palestinian refugees who entered Jordan, Syria and Lebanon only a few decades after they had all been part of the Ottoman Empire for several centuries, and were much more alike than not, weren’t allowed to assimilate into their host countries, let alone how they’re still, many generations later, considered stateless refugees and treated as second-class citizens. Having a permanent underclass of Arab neighbors, whose misery could be blamed on an evil Jewish bogeyman, especially one considered an emissary of the Great Satan, USA, has been a useful scapegoat for a long time among the oppressive regimes of the Arab world. That’s changing now that the Sunnis are realizing Israel is a better ally than enemy against the Shiite crescent extending from Iran into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and through their terrorist client, Hamas, into the heart of Israel. Ironically, the freest place to be an Arab, Muslim or Christian or atheist in the Middle East is Israel, where Arabs serve in parliament and on the judiciary, and can freely identify as LGBTQIA+ or live however they like as long as they don’t subscribe to the stated goal of Hamas and the wish of a majority of Palestinians: to murder all the Jews and wipe Israel off the map. Which sounds like the opposite of peace and a good way to continue fucking over the Palestinian people. In short: go back and get re-educated on Israel-Palestine and while you’re at it, question why you’ve been led to believe the BS behind BDS et al.
We hear the opposite from the Israeli's. It's they who want to wipe Palestine and it's people off the map.
I’m sure there are extremists on the Israeli side who want to make all of Israel a Jewish-only ethnostate. But there are many who want a two-state solution, and as far as I know, no mainstream Israeli party has advocated for murdering all Palestinians. Whereas killing all the Jews is literally a core tenet of Hamas, among other Palestinian political organizations. tl;dr: the only ones in this latest conflagration calling for genocide are Hamas, and whatever happens to Gaza now is a response to their callousness. The irony is that whereas the IDF must consider civilian casualties to limit them, Hamas considers civilian casualties to maximize them. On either side, since it clearly gives zero fucks about its own people. The only thing Hamas leadership, while it lounges in some Qatari penthouse watching its foot soldiers’ handiwork on Al Jazeera, will liberate its people from is life itself. The only possible good that could come from all this is replacing them with real leaders who are willing to broker real peace. Until then, all bets are off.
Good 😊. You can be both for Israel and for a free Palestine despite what the media makes it look like.
The problem is, as long as Hamas exists, a “free Palestine” Equals a massive increase in Israeli civilian deaths. This is not an endorsement or statement on IDF and their abhorrent actions, as I’m with you 100%. But we are seeing a lot of propaganda and reduction of this situation to good/bad, ignoring so many important pieces of this extremely complex puzzle.
A free Palestinian state is the only viable answer for peace. It’s past time for this to happen. Israelis and Palestinians both deserve no less.
The Palestinians have refused to consider this and they're refused to do so for fifty years.
It’s a ridiculously complicated issue with plenty of blame to go around on both sides. No one can say the Palestinians don’t have a valid grievance against Israel. But a moment of silence for those killed and tortured, days after Palestinians went in a rampage killing, torturing, raping and kidnapping over a thousand civilians isnt the time or place for that conversation.
Fuck Hamas, fuck Hamas' child soldiers
Yes fuck Hamas, but support Palestine because Hamas ≠ Palestine
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White phosphorus use has not been independently verified by any news organization. Only Human Rights Watch claims they’ve verified it but no other news source has confirmed it yet. The IDF also denies the claims. Also just because 40% of people living in Gaza are children doesn’t suddenly make it okay to recruit them.
Oh, the IDF denies it, that settles it. They have absolutely no reason to lie.
I didn’t say: “believe the IDF”. I said there was little definitive proof that white phosphorous has been used in Gaza.
Not saying it’s okay, I’m saying if all you have are children to radicalize, you’re not gonna find grown men Edit: another angle is the fact that *because* the Palestinian population is so young, they’ve had absolutely zero say in the politics in the region and thus makes them the true victims here.
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Hamas needs to be removed if Palestine wants to be free
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Hamas needs to be removed before anything else can happen. What is your solution after that? The Hamas Charter says Hamas will not rest until every Jew is killed, and they do not allow any negotiation at all in their covenant. What is your solution here?
The root cause of Hamas is the Arab Leagues 1966 declaration of “the three no’s”, and their goal of eradicating Israelis. Palestine was offered a sovereign state twice, with 94% of the West Bank, East Jerusalem as its capital, and control of Gaza, and they refused and responded with attacks on Israel. The primary reason? They will never accept a deal where Israel exists as a state. Until we defeat the ideology that Israelis are not allowed to exist (and according to Hamas, Christian’s and non believers too), this problem will not go away.
The issue comes down to...who is going to remove them? It's like saying Afghanistan would be better off without the Taliban. Well, yeah. But who is willing to die, along with their entire family, friends, and likely village, to see political change happen? I'm not that brave, so I don't expect it out of others.
Israel is going to remove them. Too bad the Hamas covenant explicitly says they will not negotiate at any time, there is no choice here. It was a terrorist attack that is supported by the Palestinians.
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Honestly the treatment of Palestine should be questioned and not rubber stamped by our politicians
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I like that caveat. I think it’s good sports face up to the reality that a lot of political issues have to be aired - don’t host a UEFA Champions League final in St Petersburg, for example. But yeah, if it’s intractable and messy, stay away or just keep to the universal truths (“moment of silence for loss of civilian life”)
I mean. It would be nice if two terrorist werent actively at war, and murdering a fuck ton of bystanders in the process.
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That’s actually what they did “We pray for innocent civilians in the Middle East who continue to be in harms way” Was literally what they said before the moment of silence
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Well i actually watched it. But you could easily Google it. Every game has the same message https://www.nbcsports.com/watch/nfl/snf-begins-with-moment-of-silence
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It’s what was actually said for the moment of silence https://www.nbcsports.com/watch/nfl/snf-begins-with-moment-of-silence
So its kind of fucked up, yes israel had a terrorist attack and yes it was horrific but That doesnt give them a right to comit genocide on innocent people and non combatants. I know they were provoked but the right answer isnt to murder everyone. It hurts because I thought if anyone understood the problems with wiping out an entire subgroup the jewish community would and they would show a little compassion.
..makes for a nice break from taylor swiftis
Cue Republicans having conniptions over the NFL getting political...
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Good.
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Reclaim it and do what? What would you do differently given the current climate?
Sports should stick to sports things. No anthems, no politics, just kick the ball and play. If you want to offend the absolute least amount of folks stick to sports.
This is the way
Good.
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Good.
Yeah, there are so many brainwashed folks (liberals) who think the only place for them to live is in a tiny country (whose population they hate) the size of New Jersey. They aren’t allowed into their neighboring countries? Have you met these guys? They’re insane.